← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"The five year anniversary of the beginning of the second Trump era"
00:43:47
Nicolle Wallace on the fifth anniversary of January 6th, 2021, when Donald Trump summoned a mob, fed on lies about an election in which he was soundly defeated.
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- [00:00]
A
Father. Or should I call you Steve? Since it's a new year, maybe we should start cooking fresh with fewer smoke alarms this time. Your cooking's improving, but I can see.
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B
The stress in your eyes.
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A
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C
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- [01:07]
A
Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. I don't have to tell any of you what today is. It's the five year anniversary of January 6th, and thus the anniversary of the second Trump era. Beginning on January 6th, 2021, Donald Trump summoned a mob of his supporters. He'd fed them lies about an election in which he was soundly defeated. And then that mob stormed the US Capitol, threatening the lives of Donald Trump's number two, the Vice President of the United States, and members of Congress from both parties, Democrats and Republicans. The insurrection led to multiple deaths and scores of injuries among the law enforcement officials, men and women who protected the US Capitol and the men and women inside it that day. Where we are right now, this hour today, everything we are witnessing in a second Trump presidency may well be just downstream from everything we watched unfold on live TV that day and everything we learned afterward. The editorial board of the New York Times puts it like this quote, that day was indeed a turning point, but not the one it first seemed to be. It was a turning point toward a version of Trump who's even more lawless than the one who governed the country in his first term. Because if the Republican Party could dust itself off, literally and then once again embrace a guy who incited a violent, deadly insurrection. There, of course, would be no limits at no bottom to what else they'll accept from him, tolerate from him, erase for him. So now, almost a year into his second Trump presidency, comes a public accounting of the facts of that day and an indisputable record of Donald Trump's attempt and the centuries long tradition of a peaceful transfer of power. It comes from the person, the person who did more than anyone else, really the most in uncovering what happened, and the person who did the most to try to hold Donald Trump criminally accountable for what happened. And that would be special Counsel Jack Smith. As we reported on this program, his nearly eight hours of testimony was released by the Republican led House Judiciary Committee. But they did it on New Year's Eve. So you might have missed it. Obviously, that was a day when Republicans were hoping that you would have missed it, that everyone missed it. But his testimony is particularly important and relevant today. And it's especially important to listen with your ears as Jack Smith talks about Donald Trump. And it's important to hear all that because Donald Trump is continuing a campaign of retribution against people like Jack Smith and frankly, anyone who would dare to hold him accountable. Watch.
- [03:51]
B
The first is the evidence here made clear that President Trump was by a large measure the most culpable and most responsible person in this conspiracy. The these crimes were committed for his benefit. The attack that happened at the Capitol as part of this case does not happen without him. The other co conspirators were doing this for his benefit. So in terms of why we would pursue a case against him, I entirely disagree with any characterization that our work was in any way meant to hamper him in the presidential election. I would never take orders from a political leader to hamper another person in an election. That's not who I am. And I think people who know me and my experience over 30 years would find that laughable.
- [04:53]
D
So did you develop evidence that President.
- [04:55]
E
Trump.
- [04:57]
D
You know, was responsible for the violence at the Capitol on January 6th?
- [05:01]
B
So our view, the evidence was that he caused it and that he exploited it and that it was foreseeable to him.
- [05:11]
D
But you don't have any evidence that he instructed people to crash and crash the Capitol, do you?
- [05:18]
B
As I said, our evidence is that he, in the weeks leading up to January 6, created a level of distrust. He used that level of distrust to get people to believe fraud claims that weren't true. He made false statements to state legislatures, to his supporters in all sorts of contexts, and was Aware in the days leading up to January 6th that his supporters were angry when he invited them. And then he directed them to the Capitol. Once they were at the Capitol and once the attack on the Capitol happened, he refused to stop it. He instead issued a tweet that without question, in my mind, endangered the life of his own vice president. And when the violence was going on, he had to be pushed repeatedly by his staff members to do anything to quell it. And then even afterwards, he directed co conspirators to make calls to members of Congress. People were his political allies. To further delay the proceedings.
- [06:40]
A
The facts of the January 6 insurrection as told by special counsel Jack Smith, and the importance of remembering those facts is where we start today. Our friend and legal analyst Andrew Weissman joins us. He's a former top official at the Department of Justice. Back with me at the table, former lead Investigator of the January 6th Select Committee, Tim Hafey. Tim, I said that Jack Smith probably did more than anyone else. I erred in saying that because you and the members of the January 6 select committee in Congress certainly all share that designation of doing more than anyone else to make sure the facts are known. But there was something different about hearing Jack Smith, in his own voice say he had the goods to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump committed crimes on January 6th.
- [07:28]
F
Yep, exactly right, Nicole. Jack had a hammer that we didn't have. Right. The ability to hold people accountable and bring criminal charges. When I listened to that clip and his testimony, it's exactly the same story that the Select Committee told. The select committee can only uncover facts, can only educate people. Jack Smith had, again, a tool, which is the criminal justice system, to use those facts to hold Donald Trump and others accountable. And hearing him finally do what he didn't have a chance to do in a courtroom in Washington, D.C. and articulate those facts in the credible, careful way that he did, it's very compelling.
- [08:06]
A
So he said there in that clip. And we'll play more of it. I promised with Andrew yesterday on the air to do so. And we will. But he said that they had developed evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump caused January 6th and that he exploited it. And then he went on to drill down on the fake electors part of what we saw in your report. But obviously we never saw that evidence in a trial. But he said he made false statements to state legislatures. I mean, just for the thought exercise, what would we have seen if this had gone to trial?
- [08:40]
F
Yeah, we would have seen a multi part conspiracy, Nicole, that started with Lawsuits. Every candidate has a right to file lawsuits challenging the results of elections. And when those lawsuits were filed and unanimously rejected by judges around the country for lack of evidence, then the plot moved to phase two, which was pressure on state officials, pressure on members of Congress, pressure on his own vice president ultimately to take action without basis in fact in law. That didn't work. And the final desperate lever plank of that conspiratorial plan was to launch this angry mob at the Capitol. What we developed over the course of our investigation, which I think Jack would have proven beyond a reasonable doubt at trial, was that this was, again, a sequence of events. You can't look at the violence in the Capitol in a vacuum. You have to plug it into things that began even before the election, when the seeds were planted to sow doubt in the integrity of the election.
- [09:37]
A
Do you think that he would have called Mike Pence as a witness? That was one of the witnesses you didn't have access to, Right?
- [09:42]
F
Yeah. The special counsel went beyond what we did because, again, they have levers to pull that we didn't have. He was able to adjudicate the vice president's privilege assertions, get a judge to say, no, you don't have a privilege, a speech and debate privilege, an executive privilege, and compel him to testify in the grand jury. He did that with Mark Meadows. He did that with lots of witnesses that we didn't speak to. But all that did, Nicole, was reinforce the core narrative, which, again, intentional multipart plan. And I don't know whether he would have called Mike Pence. My guess is Mike Pence is a victim. In addition to being a fact witness, there's sort of some emotional, compelling information that he would provide about how it felt to be 40ft from rioters fleeing to a loading dock in the Capitol as people are chanting, hang Mike Pence. That could have been very evocative testimony, in addition to all the pressure that he felt from the president. So perhaps, right, knowing the facts, those are pretty central to this conspiracy. But he had a long list of witnesses, almost all of whom were Republicans, were loyal to the president who wanted him to win. Jack Smith made this point in his interview. The witnesses were generally not angry Democrats who were trying to pin something unfairly on President Trump, but people within his own inner circle, within his own government, within his own White House, within his own family, and that would have given them more credibility.
- [11:00]
A
And, Andrew, just remind everyone, because I think that one of the ways Trump benefits is that people forget that the reason Jack Smith is testifying before Congress about having facts to establish beyond a reasonable doubt and prevail in a trial, which is the standard for the Department of Justice to indict anyone, but especially a former president. The case didn't fall apart, the witnesses didn't die and the witnesses didn't back out. The facts didn't become something else. New evidence wasn't presented. Donald Trump ran as, quote, your retribution. M1 and Donald Trump made the case go away. And the Republicans who had Jack Smith in that hearing room know that. So tell me what you make of the spectacle of the hearing itself.
- [11:53]
D
So in terms of the spectacle of the hearing, one thing that is important to note is that it is standard operating procedure for special counsels to be called and for Congress to hear from them in a public setting, not in a private setting that's released later in a public setting. Jack Smith asked for that. He said, I'm willing to testify that I want it to be public. But the Republicans were too afraid of doing that. And that is why it was done behind closed doors and then only put out at a time calculated to diminish its impact on New Year's Eve, of course, not the day that everyone's waiting to hear from Jack Smith. So this is already out of the norm, I should point out, Rob her publicly testified, Robert Mueller publicly testified, John Durham publicly testified. So this, this was already the Republicans hiding the ball. And when you hear from Jack Smith, and I'm so glad you played this clip, and everyone can hear all eight hours if they want to now YouTube, you can see why they did that. Because to quote you yesterday, he does have the goods and he goes through the nature of the evidence and that is still there. It is striking to me that the White House today of all days put out fake information from a government website, the White House website, saying that it's the Democrats fault. They suggest that it's the Capitol Police's fault, as if the Capitol Police want to have themselves be hurt. And none of that, none of that is anything that members of Congress and the members of the Trump first administration who were present that day know is. They all know it's false. They all know that the President didn't lift a finger to stop the violence. If he, as he says now, was so concerned about the violence because he really wanted something to be peaceful, why didn't he do anything about it? Why did he issue the tweet that Jack Smith references which endangered the Vice President of the United States? Why did he have to be sort of harangued to do anything to stop the violence. All of that is missing from the White House announcement. So we are really in a dark place when as what you started, which is we thought this was going to be a turning point five years ago. And instead we have a White House that is embracing a completely fictitious narrative that doesn't, doesn't begin to answer all the questions of what we know to be true and what the Republicans who were present that day know to be true.
- [14:46]
A
I want to play another part of his testimony that gets at what I'm sure the Republicans thought would be their winning sound bites of the day. I'm sure they'd seeded this with their sort of propaganda networks, but it didn't go perhaps as they planned. This is questions about why members of Congress were sort of swept up in some of the records. This is starts with Jack Smith sort of talking about what the investigation was and it gets into some of those questions. Let me play that.
- [15:22]
B
January 6th was an attack on the structure of our democracy in which over 140 heroic law enforcement officers were assaulte. Over 160 individuals later pled guilty to assaulting police that day. Exploiting that violence, President Trump and his associates tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme, urging them to further delay certification of the 2020 election. I did not choose those members. President Trump did.
- [15:55]
D
You know, to the extent members of Congress and senators are up in arms that this happened to them and they're seeking accountability. You know who should be held accountable for answering these questions?
- [16:11]
B
Well, I think who should be accountable for this is Donald Trump. These records are our people. In the case of the senators, Donald Trump directed his co conspirators to call these people to further delay the proceedings. He chose to do that. If Donald Trump had chosen to call a number of Democratic senators, we would have got toll records for a number of Democratic senators. So responsibility for why these records, why we collected them, that's that lies with Donald Trump.
- [16:41]
A
The ability to sort of give voice to the evidence is something that the Select Committee did in a manner that drove Trump out of his mind. I mean he had lawyers trying to bully and shape witness testimony. I guess the most dramatic example is Cassidy Hutchinson first testifying under the thumb of one of those Trump friendly lawyers and then being freed and testifying in her telling, in her book and the committee's presentation more forthrightly, more honestly to become a star witness. What is the significance of this? That anyone who's upset that their names or numbers were told and explain what told means it doesn't mean anyone listen to them. It just means there's an electronic record of a phone call being made from one number to another. What is the impact of sort of his dispassionate presentation of that evidence?
- [17:33]
F
You know, Nicole, I think the more we can stick to facts and divorce rhetoric from facts, the firmer ground we're on, right? What happened at the Capitol, when you look at it in the cold, harsh reality of day and you look at the evidence that was assembled by the Select Committee and then taken further by the Special counsel and is horrific. It is not politics. It's not rhetoric. It is not. It is a crime. And it is. They're real victims. And there was real violence and there's real heroism. And I have a fear that as time passes, we get further and further from that core reality. And listening to the special counsel again, calmly, dispassionately explaining the rationale for his decisions, we're returning to facts. The more in America we can do that, we can start with a baseline of objective truth, the better off we will be. You know, the report, the hearings, that was factual and those findings have withstood the intense scrutiny of time and I believe will continue to withstand that scrutiny historically, as will the special counsel report. But to hear him again, just as you were just playing, calmly recite those evidence, my hope is that Americans who are rational people with common sense will divorce the rhetoric from the facts and will remember, hey, this happened, this issue with the phone records, let's talk about facts and divorce those facts from narrative. There is no one listening to the phone calls of members of Congress or senators. What the special counsel did was he got what's called toll records, which is just literally a printout of who called what number, called what other number and how long a connected phone call may have last. What special counsel explained was that he was essentially just constructing a timeline that over course of the riot, and then even after the riot was quelled and the joint session began, the President continued to call members of Congress in an attempt to get them to object to the election results. That's important evidence of his intent that bears directly upon issues at stake in the criminal case. This is not a harassing witch hunt to abuse the rights of members of Congress. These are people that President Trump called during the riot and assumed when the joint session was going on. And the special counsel was just trying to essentially corroborate the witness test testimony about the times that those calls occurred. So again, when you hear him explain, it does not sound like the outrage that the questioner suggested that it was that you've heard from some of the members of Congress that it was. Let's get back to facts in this country. The more we do about January 6th and other things, the better off we'll be.
- [20:15]
A
Well, it's an uphill slog for the reasons Andrew mentioned. And we'll read a little bit from the propaganda that the White House put out on the other side of a break. No one's going anywhere. Also had for us marking five years since the deadly attack on the Capitol. Democrats and those on the front line who faced the mob that day. We're back on Capitol Hill warning of the lingering threats from January six that still very much exists today. Congressman Jamie Raskin, former officer Harry Dunn will join us later in the hour. Plus, Donald Trump testing the limits of his power. He says Venezuela is not ready for a democratic transition and suggestion an extended involvement for the United States of America there in Venezuela on the ground. We'll get to that later in the broadcast. It's been one year since wildfires tore through much of Los Angeles, California. Our colleague and friend Jacob Soboroff was there reporting on the ground as the disaster unfolded, including watching his hometown essentially disappear in flames. He joins us to reflect on that and his brand new book about all of it, Firestorms. We'll have all those stories and much more when Deadly in White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [21:25]
C
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A
We'Re back with Andrew and Tim. I want to deal with something that I know has comes close to what you've all dealt with, and that's Donald Trump's pledges of retribution toward Jack Smith and anyone and everyone. So he's been on the side of holding him accountable. I want, I want to play what he testified to on that topic. We're going to pull that up. But he was asked about the executive orders targeting law firms, including the one that has represented him. As soon as that's ready, they're going to let me know. But I know you're embarking on a new sort of professional venture with Jack Smith. I wonder if you feel like the tide has turned against those firms that capitulated to Donald Trump.
- [23:27]
F
Yeah, I'm not sure, Nicole. I think a lot of things the president does are meant to create a big splash and intimidate others beyond those against who taken action. I think that's definitely happened in the legal profession. And yeah, the news is that Jack and I are starting a law firm we haven't yet launched. It's next week that it begins. But Hafi Smith, Harbach and Windom, four of us, Dave Harbach and Thomas Windham, who also worked on the special counsel team, will be in practice together next week in Washington. Very excited about that.
- [23:57]
A
Let me play that testimony if we have that ready. What do you think was his purpose for issuing this executive order?
- [24:07]
B
To seek retribution against me.
- [24:10]
F
Is it also to.
- [24:13]
A
To harm your relationship with your attorney and to make it more difficult for lawyer to represent you?
- [24:19]
B
I think it's to chill people from having an association with me.
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D
I just want to say for the record, we're still here proud to represent Jack Smith.
- [24:32]
F
Thank you.
- [24:35]
A
So once President Trump, Trump took office, were members of the special counsel's office, was their employment affected?
- [24:44]
B
Yes.
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A
Were they fired?
- [24:46]
B
Yes.
- [24:47]
A
Are you aware of any reason to target these individuals besides their work on your investigation or association with your investigation?
- [24:55]
B
None. I think it's a travesty.
- [24:59]
A
Do you believe? Well, you just answered it. But do you believe it's proper to.
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D
Retaliate against career prosecutors for their involvement.
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A
In a federal investigation?
- [25:07]
B
Of course not.
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A
What about the support staff who aided those prosecutors?
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B
I don't understand that, why you would do that.
- [25:15]
A
And what about FBI agents who carried out the this investigation?
- [25:18]
B
As I said earlier, I, I don't understand why someone would seek to do that.
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D
Do you think that firing all of.
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A
These public servants make the country safer?
- [25:29]
C
No.
- [25:30]
A
Why not?
- [25:32]
B
As I mentioned previously, I think when you fire people who are career public servants serving both parties over many decades.
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F
You.
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B
You lose the expertise about how to do the job properly. And that has an effect on the department today and it will have an effect on the department for some time if those people aren't there to be leaders and to teach young lawyers how to be public servants.
- [26:00]
A
Do you feel like you have a target on your back?
- [26:04]
B
I believe that President Trump wants to seek retribution against me because of my role as special counsel.
- [26:11]
A
Would you be surprised if President Trump direct the DOJ to indict you?
- [26:15]
B
No.
- [26:17]
A
Are you concerned about the safety of people who associate with you, like your former colleagues and your attorneys here today?
- [26:27]
B
I would prefer if it's all right not to talk about my safety because I think doing so could in fact endanger my safety and those of people around me.
- [26:37]
A
Andrew Weissman, as you said, it was eight hours, but I think that right there was the headline. I've listened to most of it, not all of it, probably about five and a half, six hours of it. And I think the fact that Jack Smith, in the end both confirmed that he's a target of political retribution, wouldn't be surprised to be indicted, as Jim Comey and Tish James already have been, and that he was not comfortable even in that setting to answer questions about his own safety is in a lot of ways the story that we're living through. That a person who was a career prosecutor who served in the Department of Justice for Democratic and Republican presidents is the story that both of you, I think, have been trying to bring to our viewers for as many years as you've been having conversations with me on the show. It's something I've tried to articulate for as many years as I've had a show. But. But what it means to destroy the Department of Justice and the FBI. It's not about politics. You don't work in those buildings with your political association on the back of your shirt. You walk into those buildings to defend the United States of America from terror attacks from the next 9 11, from what came after 9 11, lone wolves, from people radicalized online, from the next pulse, from the next mass shooting, from the next politically motivated or foreign motivated cyber or bombing, from chemical weapons, from sex trafficking, from international. I mean, what they have destroyed is an agency and an agency within an agency that protects America from everything that threatens her. And I wonder, Andrew, if you could sort of speak to what Jack Smith went there, why he couldn't even talk about his own safety and the threats he's facing.
- [28:28]
D
Well, there's so many levels to the answer that he gave and what it says about our country and the fact that we're having this discussion on the fifth anniversary of the insurrection and we have somebody who is special counsel who has to be having that kind of conversation. It's not something that, that we had when John Durham and Rob her gave their testimony. And it's not something that happened when Robert Mueller gave his testimony. And you could hear the sadness in Jack's voice and talking about what has happened to his team. I'm reminded of in the interview I did with him in London, I asked him about that as well. And he chose to speak mostly about the effect on his team, particularly one of the FBI agents whose wife was dying and then died, who was then fired by Kash Patel for seemingly the only offense was working on Jack's investigation. And Castrel would not put off the firing even though he was dealing with his wife dying of cancer. And I remember Jack saying that one thing he had learned through all of this is he learned, he learned who his friends are who sort of rose to the occasion and who didn't. In terms of the long term effect on the department, including the FBI, it's devastating not just to the people directly affected, in other words, the people who were fired, demoted, the people who have trouble finding jobs, finding lawyers, but because of the chilling effect, the chilling effect on the people who are in the department now not to stand up, not to take principal positions, the chilling effect on people who would want to do public service but for seeing what happens if you do public service with principals. And so it is a sad place in terms of where we are as a country and what we expect of public servants and what we should expect of public servants.
- [30:59]
A
Tim, Andrew Weissman, it's always great to have you, but especially today. Thank you for being part of our coverage.
- [31:05]
D
Thank you.
- [31:05]
A
Tim sticks around a little bit longer after the break for us. Why the forces that led to January 6th happening and happening like you see it on your screen right now, in broad daylight, largely unmasked, people waving Trump flags. Happy to be there. Why those forces are still alive and well. Jamie Raskin will be here to explain. That's next. As Andrew alluded to, Donald Trump spent much of today still trying to rewrite exactly January 6th with his administration trying to turn Donald Trump and the rioters who came to the US Capitol to try to violently overthrow our government and an election into the victims and somehow the heroes in the story. For their part, Democrats on Capitol Hill today held a hearing not just to push back against that White House whitewashing, but to try to sound the alarms and warn Americans of the dangers we all still face from Donald Trump's attempted coup. Take a listen.
- [32:11]
C
The political violence unleashed by Trump did not end on J6. On his first day back in office last year, he pardoned nearly 1600 of the rioters and insurrectionists, including hundreds who violated police officers, including several in this room. Those pardons were raw spoils shared indiscriminately without regard to their actual offenses. They were essentially a payoff to Trump's private militia, which is now ready to stand back and stand by again for future engagements. He installed actual participants in the attack in the Department of Justice itself. The new U.S. pardon attorney, Ed Martin, tweeted from the Capitol grounds on this day five years ago and described the mayhem as Mardi Gras in D.C. his senior counselor at the Department of Justice, Jared wise, is another J6 defendant captured on body camera footage yelling, kill him. Kill him. Five different times as police were being attacked right next to him. These leaders at the Department of Justice today have never once regretted their participation in this nightmare. With election deniers and J6 conspiracists, Pam Bondi and Kash Patel at the top of the doj, it's like the Joker and the Riddler and the Penguin have taken over Gotham City.
- [33:41]
A
It is indeed. It's perfectly put. And I am so happy right now to bring in to our coverage Democratic Congressman Jamie Ruskin of Maryland. He is the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. He was the lead prosecutor in the second impeachment trial of Donald Trump. Tim Hafey is still here. Congressman, I feel like you left it all in the field there. It was an incredible hearing today. But just tell us your thoughts as Donald Trump is engaged in a really elaborate effort to rewrite the history of January 6th.
- [34:12]
C
Well, the facts are a pretty resilient thing, Nicole. And the January 6th select committee report stands totally untouched by these people. They have not successfully refuted a single sentence in the report of the January 6th select committee. So, really, our opponent here isn't Donald Trump. Everybody knows he's going to try and lie and propagandize and whitewash. Our opponent here is just the Russian confluence of different events, people's busy lives, and how difficult it is to get anybody to read anything but the Truth is that it's not just the report. It's the most video documented and most photographed crime in American history, the most spectacular political assault on the Capitol in American history. And so the story can be told, it must be told, it will be told. And we were very happy with how the hearing went today. And it obviously got on, it got on Donald Trump, Trump's nerves because, you know, they threw up their new ridiculous Orwellian website, which is just a pack of lies, at the White House.
- [35:27]
A
Well, I mean, we know they know the truth because they released the Jack Smith testimony on New Year's Eve. I mean, you're right. There are so many tells that they know that the truth and the facts are no good for them. I wonder what you make of Jack Smith's presentation of the facts as he gathered them, in some ways parallel to your investigation, in some ways going beyond with a couple of witnesses that refused to cooperate with the congressional probe, but giving testimony that made clear he believed in his telling, that he was ready to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump committed crimes on January 6th.
- [36:11]
C
Yeah, well, I left that closed door deposition of Jack Smith and I said that Chairman Jordan's decision to do it behind closed doors was the best decision he ever made in his life because it was absolutely devastating for Donald Trump and for those who still want to try to pretend as if he wasn't guilty of these things, he was clearly guilty of these things. And what's gotten him off, of course, is not, you know, any kind of innocence. What's allowed him to escape. Houdini, you know, Houdini, like, is the Robert's Court and the fact that he's been able to manipulate the levers of power to keep himself going. I mean, if he put, you know, a fraction of that energy into trying to actually do something for the American people, we might be in a different position in America today, but the economy, the society are basically in ruins because of the guy. But he has been able to stay afloat even as it's overwhelmingly clear that he engaged in an attempt to defraud the United States, disrupt this federal proceeding, and massively violate the voting rights of all Americans by stealing an election. He wasn't trying to stop election fraud. He was trying to commit election fraud for several months.
- [37:33]
A
Congressman, we applaud your work today to keep this and the facts front and center. We're following your lead. Thank you for taking some time to talk to us today.
- [37:45]
C
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [37:48]
A
After the break, one familiar face to viewers of this program will be here to talk about this. A Capitol rioter returned to Washington today, but not for the reasons you might expect. What she had to say when we're joined by our friend Officer Harry Dunn.
- [38:08]
C
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hyrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgar, Tigamide Alpha and Hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject the in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V Y V G-A-R-T myway.com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo Brought to you by Argenics.
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A
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- [39:11]
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- [39:41]
A
Five years to the day since the January 6th Capitol insurrection, those who lived through the deadly violence that day are refusing to let Donald Trump rewrite their stories. From former Capitol Police officers to House Democrats on Capitol Hill. And even one rioter who served time in prison and rejected Donald Trump's pardon was invited to speak today at the hearing marking the five year anniversary. Here she is, wanting to set the record straight and offer an apology for her role in the violence that day.
- [40:11]
F
Accepting that pardon would be lying about.
- [40:15]
A
What happened on January 6th. I am guilty. I was trampled on by the rioters and if it weren't for the Capitol Police helping me that day, I might have died. I want the Capitol Police to know how truly grateful I am to them and how deeply sorry I am. I can't believe people are still disrespecting you and trying to lie about January 6th. I want to bring in our dear friend, retired Capitol Police officer Harry Dunn. Hi there, my friend. How are you? And what do you think of that?
- [41:01]
E
Happy New Year. Hey, it's been a while. Nicole. How are you? I'm good.
- [41:06]
A
I miss you. I miss you. It's been too long.
- [41:09]
E
Yeah, you too. I was in there when that happened. And begrudgingly, I guess, accept the apology, like, move on. Like, okay. I struggle with it, though. Cause it's. You're part of the reason why the worst day of my life and a lot of people's lives happened. You're part of it. And just because you said sorry, you know. Yeah, I forgive you. Right. It's the right thing to do. I don't want to hold hatred in my heart. I don't have any, you know, ill will towards it. But. But people like that, even if you acknowledge it, like I've said on this program before, Nicole, like, yes, there are people that probably got caught up in the moment. There are people that didn't plan on getting carried away like they did on January 6th. That's fine. But you're still responsible for your actions and just. I'm sorry. Or refusal. I'm glad that she recognized the wrong of her ways of. I'm thankful for that. But it's all right. Now what?
- [42:08]
A
Well, I guess that was my question for you. Now what? When you see the White House today, still involved in the effort of rewriting the history of the day, it tells me two things. One, they know how bad it is if the truth is out there. And two, they are very afraid of the power of folks like yourself to tell the truth of that day. How does that land with you?
- [42:33]
E
It feels like I'm doing something right. You know, just as I was walking over here to the studio, I looked at my phone and there go more hate messages and deaf messages again. And it's like, all right, I'm doing something right. Cuz they had cooled down for a minute. So I was like, all right, am I still keeping the pedal to the metal? Speaking out, fighting for accountability, fighting for what's right, refusing to be quiet and let this administration, not only this administration, but all his minions in Congress, MAGA, Mike Johnson, Revolution, rewrite what happened on January 6th. I refuse to let that happen. And people say, like, Jamie Raskin just talked about on the White House website, blaming the Capitol Police for it. And people are sending articles. Doesn't this make you mad? Man, I've been mad since 1pm, January 6, 2021. So it's still a continuation. I expected all of this to happen. Kind of like when the pardons happened. We knew that it was coming because he said that he was gonna do it. So you fight to try to do whatever you can to stop it, not just hope that it gets better over time and do nothing about it. But you always got to keep showing up, or else you just roll over and accept it. Absolutely not. They're liars. They are liars. They are complicit. Donald Trump is solely responsible for what happened that day. And we saw it in Jack Smith's testimony. And that's why, make no mistake, it was absolutely recorded. Excuse me. Released on New Year's Eve because they thought that this would be the best time to release it so no eyes could get on it.
- [44:02]
A
Yeah, we tried to get around that a little bit today by playing it right here. Let me ask you one more question about hope, because we've talked a lot about the impact on all of our mental health to have the lying come from the highest levels of one of the two parties. Do you have hope when you see that the number of Americans who say they identify with the no Kings movement exceeds the number of Americans who say they identify with maga?
- [44:25]
F
Yeah.
- [44:26]
E
I'm so glad that you asked about hope, because we talk a lot about, like, sad things that make you angry. What's everything that's going wrong in this world right now. You know, it's just been disappointment after disappointment after disappointment. But, yes, absolutely. I mean, sure, I hoped that on November 4 or 2024, November 5, whatever the election was, that people would have realized it then. Not that it would have taken a year for people to have buyer's remorse, but I am thankful. Yes. You finally get it. We are coming around, and people are starting to understand. I really wish it was a lot sooner because we could have prevented this. This could have been prevented. But that does give me hope, Nicole. It shows me that people actually care. People actually engaged. And I've always been one to say, I don't know how this is going to turn out. I don't know if we're going to survive three more years of Donald Trump. I don't know. And anybody that says that they do, they may mean the best, but they don't. But I do know that if we don't show up, if we don't continue to have hope and keep on pushing forward and trying to fight back and right this wrong, if we don't do that, we have no chance, and we absolutely will not overcome this.
- [45:38]
A
Yeah, I mean, Tim, let me bring you in on this because I think what Harry's talking about is the only variable, the only levers we can pull. And you've made a very deliberate decision by the partners that you've chosen. And by being back at this table, we haven't had an opportunity to talk to you as much as we would have liked to over the last year. What is inside that decision? Decision to fight.
- [45:57]
F
It's imperative for everybody to fight, for everybody to pay attention. First of all, right, the bigger threat to democracy, anger, like we saw at the Capitol, we can manage. Apathy is a more insidious threat. And the more people withdraw, Nicole, the more people, they're all the same. It doesn't matter who I vote for, it doesn't matter if I pay attention. That is a more insidious threat. So the more outrageous things that happen, the more imperative it is for all of us to do whatever it is we can. And it starts with just educating yourself, familiarizing yourself with what's true, getting accurate information, challenging orthodoxy. If everybody does that, then I think we're going to be fine. I have a lot of faith in the American people, to Harry's point, about hope, maybe so much of the outrageousness that we're seeing is going to prompt more engagement, more participation, more people looking hard at the facts, being skeptical about what they read and their curated social media platform. My hope is that while this is a short term setback, it leads us to, to a better place. Sunny and optimistic, but engagement is what it takes. It takes people paying close attention.
- [47:02]
A
All right, I'll take both of your hope. I will ask for something in return though, that you guys come back, please.
- [47:08]
C
Sure.
- [47:09]
E
Tim, good to see you my friend.
- [47:11]
A
Hi Harry, good to see you. Thank you for being here. Tim Havey thank you for spending the hour with us. After the break, the very latest on the Trump administration's plan to beyond Venezuela continue to intervene around the world. The next hour of deadline White House starts after a short break.
- [47:34]
C
I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains Efgar, Tegamod Alpha and Hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway. Com That's V Y V G A R T Myway. Com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenics.