Podcast Summary: "The Five Year Anniversary of the Beginning of the Second Trump Era"

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC NOW)
Date: January 7, 2026
Duration: Approx. 48 minutes

Overview

Marking five years since January 6, 2021 – the day widely recognized as ushering in the "second Trump era" – Nicolle Wallace leads an incisive hour of reflection and analysis. Drawing on testimony from Special Counsel Jack Smith, insights from legal analysts, lawmakers, and voices from both sides of the riot, the episode scrutinizes the aftermath of the insurrection, the unbroken lines connecting January 6 to current events, and ongoing efforts by Trump and his allies to recast the narrative of that day.

The conversation spotlights the facts revealed by the January 6 Select Committee and Special Counsel Smith, the chilling effects of political retribution against justice officials, and the resilience of those determined to defend and remember the truth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why January 6, 2021, Matters—Five Years Later

• Nicolle Wallace opens (01:07) by underscoring the gravity and legacy of January 6:

  “Donald Trump summoned a mob of his supporters...that mob stormed the US Capitol, threatening the lives of...the Vice President…and members of Congress...Where we are right now, this hour today, everything we are witnessing in a second Trump presidency may well be just downstream from everything we watched unfold on live TV that day.” (01:07–02:50)

• Wallace cites the New York Times editorial on the day’s significance:

  “It was a turning point toward a version of Trump who's even more lawless than the one who governed the country in his first term.”

2. Testimony from Special Counsel Jack Smith: The Culpability of Donald Trump

• Wallace introduces clips from recently released eight hours of Jack Smith’s closed-door testimony – quietly published by the Republican-led House Judiciary Committee on New Year’s Eve (03:15).

• Jack Smith on Trump’s responsibility:

  “President Trump was by a large measure the most culpable and most responsible person in this conspiracy. These crimes were committed for his benefit. The attack...does not happen without him.” (03:51)

  “He caused it, he exploited it, and it was foreseeable to him.” (05:01)

  “He invited them...he directed them to the Capitol...he refused to stop it...he had to be pushed repeatedly by his staff...even afterwards, he directed co-conspirators to make calls to members of Congress to further delay the proceedings.” (05:17-06:30)

• Smith rebuffs claims that the prosecution was election interference.

  “I entirely disagree with any characterization that our work was in any way meant to hamper him in the presidential election. I would never take orders from a political leader to hamper another person in an election. That’s not who I am.” (04:53)

3. The Prosecution That Wasn’t: Legal Insights with Tim Heaphy and Andrew Weissmann

• Tim Heaphy (Former Lead Investigator, Jan 6 Select Committee):

  “Jack had a hammer that we didn't have – the ability to hold people accountable and bring criminal charges...hearing him finally do what he didn't have a chance to do in a courtroom...is very compelling.” (07:27)

  • On evidence and potential trial:

    “We would have seen a multi-part conspiracy...Lawsuits...pressure on state officials...members of Congress...his own vice president...to take action without basis in fact or law...The final desperate lever...was to launch this angry mob at the Capitol.” (08:39)

  • On Pence as a witness and credible testimony:

    “Mike Pence is a victim...there’s emotional, compelling information...That could have been very evocative testimony.” (09:41)

  • On Republican witnesses:

    “The witnesses were generally not angry Democrats...but people within [Trump’s] own inner circle, within his government, his family...that would have given them more credibility.” (10:25)

• Andrew Weissmann (Former DoJ Official):

  • On Republican obfuscation:

    “Jack Smith asked for [public testimony]. He said, ‘I’m willing, I want it to be public.’ But Republicans were too afraid...So this is already out of the norm…when you hear from Jack Smith...he does have the goods and he goes through the nature of the evidence...It is striking to me that the White House today of all days put out fake information...” (11:53–13:38)

4. Smith’s Dispassionate Explanation—and the Importance of Facts

• Smith on collecting Congressional phone records:

  “Exploiting that violence, President Trump and his associates tried to call members of Congress in furtherance of their criminal scheme, urging them to further delay certification...I did not choose those members. President Trump did.” (15:21)

  “Responsibility...that lies with Donald Trump.” (16:10)

• Heaphy on the facts vs. the politics:

  “The more we can stick to facts and divorce rhetoric, the firmer ground we’re on...What happened at the Capitol...is not politics. It’s not rhetoric. It is a crime. There are real victims, real violence, real heroism...Listening to the special counsel again, calmly, dispassionately explaining...we're returning to facts.” (17:33–19:44)

5. Retribution and Chilling Effects on the Justice System

• Discussion turns to Trump’s open pledges of retribution against those involved in the investigation. Tim Heaphy, Jack Smith’s forthcoming law partner, shares context on the climate of intimidation for legal professionals (23:26).

• Jack Smith on Trump’s motives:

  Q: “What do you think was his purpose for issuing this executive order?”
  Smith: “To seek retribution against me.” (24:06)
  “I think it's to chill people from having an association with me.” (24:19)

  • On loss of public servants:

    “When you fire people who are career public servants...you lose the expertise about how to do the job properly. That has an effect on the department today and...for some time...” (25:31)

  • On personal safety:

    “I would prefer...not to talk about my safety because I think doing so could in fact endanger my safety and those of people around me.” (26:26)

  • Smith’s forthrightness is highlighted by Wallace:

    “Jack Smith...confirmed that he’s a target of political retribution, wouldn't be surprised to be indicted...was not comfortable even in that setting to answer questions about his own safety...It's something I've tried to articulate for as many years as I've had a show. But what it means to destroy the Department of Justice and the FBI—it’s not about politics.” (27:00–28:20)

• Weissmann on the chilling impact:

  “There's so many levels...It affects those who were fired, demoted, but because of the chilling effect on people who are in the department now not to stand up...who would want to do public service but see what happens if you do...It’s a sad place in terms of where we are as a country.” (28:27)

6. Democratic Pushback & The Anniversary Hearing

• Jamie Raskin (Ranking Democrat, House Judiciary Committee) describes the White House’s efforts to "rewrite" history and how the factual record remains untouched:

  “The facts are a pretty resilient thing, Nicole...the most video documented and most photographed crime in American history...so the story can be told, it must be told, it will be told...they threw up their new ridiculous Orwellian website, which is just a pack of lies...” (34:12)

• On Jack Smith’s deposition:

  “It was absolutely devastating for Donald Trump and for those who still want to try to pretend as if he wasn’t guilty of these things, he was clearly guilty.” (36:10)

  “What’s allowed him to escape...is the Roberts Court and the fact that [Trump’s] been able to manipulate the levers of power...even as it’s overwhelmingly clear that he engaged in an attempt to defraud the United States, disrupt this federal proceeding, and massively violate the voting rights of all Americans by stealing an election.” (36:30)

7. Capitol Rioter’s Apology—and Harry Dunn’s Response

• Wallace plays a clip of a former rioter speaking at the anniversary hearing, refusing Trump’s pardon and expressing remorse:

  “Accepting that pardon would be lying about what happened on January 6th. I am guilty. I was trampled on by the rioters and if it weren’t for the Capitol Police helping me that day, I might have died. I want the Capitol Police to know how truly grateful I am...and how deeply sorry I am.” (40:15)

• Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn responds:

  "I was in there when that happened. And begrudgingly...accept the apology, like, move on...But you’re still responsible for your actions...But people like that, even if you acknowledge it...I'm glad she recognized the wrong...but it's all right. Now what?" (41:09)

  • On continuing threats:

    “I'm doing something right. Just as I was walking over...there go more hate messages and death messages again...I'm doing something right...fighting for accountability, fighting for what's right, refusing to be quiet and let this administration...rewrite what happened on January 6th.” (42:33)

  • On hope:

    “Do you have hope when you see that the number of Americans who say they identify with the ‘no kings’ movement exceeds...[MAGA]? ...Yes, absolutely...People actually engaged...I don't know how this is going to turn out...But if we don't show up...we absolutely will not overcome this.” (44:25)

8. A Call to Engagement: Apathy vs. Action

• Tim Heaphy closes with a warning about civic apathy:

  “Anger...like we saw at the Capitol, we can manage. Apathy is a more insidious threat...The more people withdraw...that's a more insidious threat.” (45:57)

  “It takes people paying close attention...If everybody does that, then I think we're going to be fine. I have a lot of faith in the American people...maybe so much of the outrageousness that we're seeing is going to prompt more engagement...” (46:30)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Nicolle Wallace:

  "Everything we are witnessing in a second Trump presidency may well be just downstream from everything we watched unfold on live TV that day." (01:45)

• Jack Smith:

  "President Trump was...the most culpable...these crimes were committed for his benefit." (03:51) "He exploited [Jan 6] and it was foreseeable to him." (05:01) "He refused to stop it...issued a tweet that endangered the life of his own vice president." (05:20) “I would prefer...not to talk about my safety because I think doing so could in fact endanger my safety…” (26:26)

• Tim Heaphy:

  "Jack had a hammer that we didn't have...the ability to bring criminal charges." (07:27) "This was...a sequence of events...you can't look at the violence in the Capitol in a vacuum." (08:39) "It is not politics. It is not rhetoric. It is a crime...real victims, real violence, real heroism." (17:33)

• Andrew Weissmann:

  "It is striking to me that the White House today of all days put out fake information from a government website...None of that is anything that members of Congress...present that day know is [true.]" (13:00) "It's a sad place in terms of where we are as a country and what we expect of public servants and what we should expect of public servants." (28:27)

• Jamie Raskin:

  "The facts are a pretty resilient thing, Nicole...the story can be told, it must be told, it will be told." (34:12) "[Smith's] deposition...was absolutely devastating for Donald Trump...he was clearly guilty of these things." (36:10)

• Harry Dunn:

  "You're part of the reason why the worst day of my life...happened. You're part of it...you're still responsible for your actions." (41:09) "I refuse to let...all his minions...rewrite what happened on January 6th...Donald Trump is solely responsible for what happened that day." (43:00) “If we don't continue to have hope and keep on pushing forward...we absolutely will not overcome this.” (45:07)

Memorable Moments

• Smith’s unwavering, detail-rich testimony on Trump’s responsibility and the evidence the DOJ was prepared to present (03:51–06:30).
• The conversation around how the release of Smith’s testimony on New Year’s Eve was a deliberate attempt to downplay its impact (11:53–13:38, 44:01).
• Raw, emotional reactions from Harry Dunn to the rioter’s apology, and his reflections on fighting to preserve truth for future generations (41:09–44:25).
• Jamie Raskin’s sharp summary:

  “Our opponent here isn’t Donald Trump...our opponent here is just the Russian confluence of different events...but the truth is that...it’s the most video documented and most photographed crime in American history.” (34:12–35:26)

Key Timestamps

• 01:07 – Nicolle Wallace sets context for the anniversary of January 6.
• 03:51 – Jack Smith’s testimony on Trump’s culpability.
• 05:01 – Smith: “[Trump] caused it...he exploited it...it was foreseeable to him.”
• 07:27 – Tim Heaphy on Smith’s unique prosecutorial leverage.
• 08:39 – Heaphy describes the multipart conspiracy narrative.
• 11:53 – Weissmann on the GOP’s attempt to minimize Smith’s testimony.
• 15:21 – Smith clarifies who is responsible for calls to Congress.
• 17:33 – Heaphy on importance of focusing on facts, not rhetoric.
• 23:26 – Discussion of retribution against legal professionals.
• 24:06 – Smith: “To seek retribution against me.”
• 26:26 – Smith: Prefers not to discuss his own safety implications.
• 34:12 – Jamie Raskin: “The facts are a pretty resilient thing...”
• 40:11 – Rioter’s apology at anniversary hearing.
• 41:09 – Harry Dunn on accountability and forgiveness.
• 44:25 – Dunn on hope and civic engagement.
• 45:57 – Heaphy: “Apathy is a more insidious threat…”

Conclusion

This episode is an urgent, comprehensive accounting of how the legacy of January 6, 2021, reverberates in American democracy and government today. Through the meticulous testimony of Jack Smith, grounded commentary from legal experts, and raw personal reflection from those on the front lines, the facts of January 6—and the dangers of forgetting them—are laid bare. The episode unabashedly calls for civic vigilance, collective memory, and hope amidst formidable challenges to truth and democracy.