← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“The future of the slush fund”
00:41:39
June 11, 2026; 5pm: Nicolle Wallace and guests discuss new reporting from The Atlantic which says that there are hidden discussions in the Trump administration to keep the slush fund alive. The same slush fund that Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche told Congress was dead.
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- [00:00]
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We are not moving forward with the fun period. We we the reasons for the fund is something that President Trump talked about for a long time, which is the fact that there were a lot of people in this country who had their government weaponized against them. The reasons for the fund I think remain as important as they were before, but we are not moving forward with the fund.
- [01:20]
Nicole Wallace
Not moving forward. Not the same as killing or the fund is dead. Hi again everybody. It's five o' clock in New York. Now there is a well known saying, watch what people do, not what they say. So while we heard Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche say that the Justice Department is, quote, not moving forward with Donald Trump's $1.8 billion slush fund, we have not yet seen the administration do anything to take any steps to officially kill it. And Trump himself has only praised the fund as beautiful since Todd Blanche made those comments. Now, thanks to brand new extraordinary reporting in the Atlantic, we are learning about hidden discussions to keep that slush fund alive. Quote, behind the scenes, Justice Department and other Trump administration officials have quietly assured allies that plans for some form of payout remain on track. The reporter Sarah Fitzpatrick spoke with eight people familiar with the so called anti weaponization fund, including current and former Justice Department officials, current and former members of Congress, a defense attorney and political operatives close to the administration. All of them said that Justice Department officials and people close to the White House have indicated that the payout idea has not actually been scrapped. Rather, they say officials are exploring whether elements of the fund can be reactivated when, while also examining alternative arrangements to make sure loyalists get compensated wow. However, at the moment, judges are taking Todd Blanche's words seriously, or if not seriously, maybe literally. The fund is already facing multiple legal challenges. And yesterday a Federal judge in D.C. quote, declined to bar the Trump administration from pursuing it, saying top Justice Department officials have stated in public comments and court filings that the fund is dead. But the judge made clear that that is not a green light for the administration to keep the fund alive either. Washington Post reports this. Quote, even as he denied the request for a temporary restraining order, U.S. district Judge Richard Leon warned the Justice Department not to revive the fund. Quote, don't play possum with this court, Leon said. Whether this administration is playing possum with the court and the rest of the country when it comes to the slush fund for Donald Trump's criminal allies is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters in France. The aforementioned staff writer at the Atlantic, Sarah Fitzpatrick, is back with us. Her byline is on that reporting. We read to you. Also Joining us, Scott McFarland, Chief Washington Correspondent and host for Midas Touch. And with me at the table, Harry Lippman. He's a former deputy attorney general and former US Attorney. Sarah, incredible piece of scoopy reporting. Take us through it.
- [04:08]
Sarah Fitzpatrick
Thank you, Nicole. You know, this is one of those stories that is bringing forward what was being said behind closed doors, and I had been hearing this for quite some time, that these messages were being relayed to the president's allies, to those kind of key constituencies that the president has needed to keep in the fold, saying, don't worry, everything's on track. You know, just sit tight and there will, we will find some way to make this fund possible. Now, I think what was interesting about this story is that even within the Justice Department, there is a lack of clarity about kind of what is the right way to handle this and what is feasible. Now, the Justice Department and the White House notably declined to make any on the record statements even to dispute this and would only push back that those conversations had not happened at the highest levels of the Justice Department, meaning the attorney General.
- [05:07]
Nicole Wallace
Importantly, I guess if we're going to put some dots on a timeline, Sarah Blanche is going to stand for confirmation. He's been appointed as the nominee. So that's out there as well. Let me read from the story. Quote, Justice Department officials are still figuring out the exact mechanisms by which people who seek compensation can be paid. Officials told me that those who believe they were victims of a weaponized government may ultimately need to file lawsuits so they can receive settlements from a previously established Justice Department fund. Suing the government is not a new idea, but typically the government looks for ways to defend itself. In this case, officials are exploring proposals to facilitate litigation and expedite payments without requiring an expensive and lengthy process that might draw attention. One former DOJ official told me that discussions are happening about how to provide legal support and at scale to those who want to file lawsuits. They'll sue and they'll settle. The former official said of the plan. How is it legal or ethical for the government to rig lawsuits against itself and not defend them?
- [06:10]
Sarah Fitzpatrick
I mean, that is the key question here. And I think, you know, there is, it is true, there is a process by which people can sue the government, but it is an incredibly difficult and laborious process, and generally, it has a very, extremely low likelihood of success. So the fact that these messages are being telegraphed that, okay, you may still need to do this, they have not yet found a legal workaround. But it's about the semantics of the issue, and it's about telegraphing to those main allies, sit tight. We will make you whole. And I think that is really disturbing for so many other people who work within the Justice Department, to your point, Nicole, who are saying, why are we out there soliciting or encouraging people to come forward and take taxpayer dollars?
- [06:59]
Nicole Wallace
Why are they so desperate to pay criminals?
- [07:04]
Sarah Fitzpatrick
I think, first of all, it's really important what the genesis of this fund is. The genesis of this fund is the president, I was told from multiple sources over a lengthy period of reporting when he first came into office, said, I find a way for me to be paid back for all of my legal expenses. And, and for those that were around me, my employees, my other allies, I want a way to make that money back. And so the mechanism to do that became ultimately this weaponization fund. And it was able to kind of in parallel find a way to bring in the January 6th and other kind of weaponization, the groups that feel that they were weaponized, including federal employees that felt that they were unfairly targeted by the Biden Justice Department. So it is a means of keeping, I think, a lot of desperate, like different factions within the Trump base to bring them close in. And one of the things that I found really interesting is the plan for the weaponization fund was actually, I'm told by my sources, designed to happen the announcement much closer to the midterm elections. And so that got moved up quite suddenly. I think that's a very, very telling sign that this is an example of a president who feels the need to buttress his support because he's not feeling confident about those midterms.
- [08:23]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, that's really, really dark. Scott, take me inside the reporting you've done on how the victims of some of these crimes, people who are on the other end of some of these criminals, violent acts against law enforcement, feel about Trump's dedication to a fund that even Republicans oppose.
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Scott McFarland
My periodic reminder. Some of the January 6th defendants in court during trial claimed they were the victims of a weaponized prosecution. And that argument was laughed out of court, either by the judges, juries, or some combination of the two. As for the slush fund. Oh, the slush fund. It reminds me of One of those corny 80s or 90s teen horror movies where everybody thinks the monster's dead and then they go back out running around the house and the monster comes back again, then comes back again. This thing is not. And there was a telling exchange, Nicole in court here in Washington Wednesday. We were in the courtroom watching arguments from plaintiffs from a watchdog group to get a judge to put a halt on this thing, to pause it, say stop for now till we get a deeper look. And the attorney for the Department of Justice, Nicole, kept using that same phrase you highlighted. It's not moving forward. It's not. He said it a dozen times. The fund is not moving forward. The judge asked him point blank, why? Why not just put it in writing? Why not just rescind the fund for now pending future review? And the attorney twice said, I don't know, you, Honor. There was a murmur in the courtroom. There was nearly laughter in the courtroom. Nobody takes their word. This monster is dead and it's going to reveal itself in the coming days with more hearings and more civil challenges, including two tomorrow, one in Virginia, another matter in Florida. The Department of Justice is going to have to keep answering the question. Why not just put this in writing?
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Nicole Wallace
Well, here's Todd Blanche stumbling over that question in front of Congress. Exactly what Scott's talking about.
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Sarah Fitzpatrick
I think they would love to be reassured that this fund will not progress.
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Thumbtack Advertiser
I'm telling you, it's not. I guess I'm not sure. I'm not trying to be flippant with you. I'm just saying. I'm telling you, it's not. I'm not. There's a, we put out a statement yesterday. There's been a, an injunction, a temporary injunction filed in EDVA. There's litigation in D.C. there's litigation in the Southern District of Florida. But notwithstanding what we do in those litigations and defending our rights and making sure Our rights are protected. We're not moving forward with the fund.
- [10:47]
Nicole Wallace
Okay.
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Sarah Fitzpatrick
Yeah. The statement I thought was just about until June 12th.
- [10:52]
Nicole Wallace
So if it won't progress after June 12th, that's great to hear and we hope to see this in writing. Yeah,
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Thumbtack Advertiser
I mean, I think there'll be a transcript of what I say here. So that will be in writing.
- [11:06]
Nicole Wallace
A transcript of what I say on this show is not me saying something in writing. Is Todd Blanche being cute or has Todd Blanche got a boot on his neck from Donald Trump?
- [11:14]
Harry Lippman
I think both. Look, lack of clarity, as Sarah says, because there's a lack of legality that doesn't come close to rescinding a settlement agreement. A settlement agreement and people are missing. This is a contract. Somebody who enters into a contract can't say the next day, oh, I've decided not to give you what I promised to give you and we're not going forward. That's not how it works. It has to be Trump who says, I was going to give this, I'm going to insure the court and much more than that in order to rescind. But there is a bigger problem here. They have two choices and they're both not tenable. The first is to say somehow this is connected to the settlement agreement. But the settlement agreement and the hearings that Scott talked about are going to, I think, expose this. Tomorrow was bogus. It was a contrived case and there were other legal problems. So then they could back up and say, okay, we won't rely on a settlement agreement. Then we just have the raw gifting of $100 million taxpayer funded bounty in the IRS case from the attorney general to the president for nothing in return.
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Nicole Wallace
Representing both sides.
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Harry Lippman
Yeah, there's either something illusory in return and a court can say that, or there's literally nothing in return and it's just a raw gift. It would be the most corrupt move by an attorney general in history, I think.
- [12:37]
Nicole Wallace
Sarah, the reporting from NPR about a convicted child molester who promised one of his child victims some of this money that we're talking about that is the subject of your reporting. Do you know how the criminals themselves knew they were going to be paid?
- [12:54]
Sarah Fitzpatrick
I think there's a very clear network of people. And this is one of the most fascinating things about covering this Trump Justice Department is that there is a group of people that went into the Justice Department who actually had been convicted as part of January 6th. There's quite, there are multiple of them now in the Trump administration and there's a group of True believers who have continued to work towards that goal and had spent a lot of time, energy, and taxpayer dollars kind of reinforcing these messages, keeping these groups kind of appraised. And there's a wide network of defense attorneys and others. And so I think, you know, this is. It speaks to the fact that this constituency has been told by the president on national television in multiple ways. You know, this was wrong, and these people should be reimbursed. And so I think that we're in this interesting moment in which the courts now have to decide, can you take the head, like the president at his word and therefore, or can you take the attorney general at his word? And I think we're seeing the court say we are not so sure, which is a stunning development. You know, there's this concept in the law called the presumption of regularity that the government doesn't have to prove. It is assumed that they are acting in good faith, but the courts are recognizing. And I think that clip you played, we open with that anecdote in my article because he says, later on, he says, I just told you this. I don't understand what good it would do to put it in writing. But Todd Blanche is a lawyer. He is the head of the Justice Department. He knows exactly what it means to put something in writing because it would become an important material fact. And this is also telling. In the lawsuit that has a hearing tomorrow, one of the things that the parties have to do is they have to confer before they move forward on motions to dismiss. And there was a very telling kind of exchange, both by letters, by email and then a kind of meeting by phone, in which these government attorneys would not say, would not, you know, would not say anything beyond. It's just not moving forward. We cannot offer you any additional statements, no additional details. And that's the sort of thing that could make this whole case go away again, taxpayer dollars being spent on litigation that could go away, but they're choosing not to. And so I think it is just very telling that there is a level of disagreement here and a level of, you know, ultimately, can our justice system be trusted? Can the attorney general's words be trusted that he makes in front of Congress? The fact that we're even having that conversation and the fact that these conversations that I was able to report on were happening so widely, it really speaks to the fact that there is a disconnect between what our officials say and what they do.
- [16:04]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And I mean, I think it also gets to the chain of command at doj it's clearly Donald Trump who sits atop the org chart, not Pambandi. It was not Todd Blanche. They are not making charging decisions, they are not making policy decisions. They're not even making settlement decisions is what I take from this. No one goes anywhere. We have much more in this story and how it plays into Todd Blanche's confirmation process. We will keep everybody around for that. Also, head for us. Donald Trump threatened to hit Iran very hard tonight, only to back off amid growing concerns that the two sides are moving closer to the resumption of all out war. It comes as the Pentagon is under fierce new scrutiny for hitting a civilian drinking water plant, a strike that could be considered a war crime. Crime will bring all that reporting. And later, after destroying so much of what made 60 Minutes so commercially successful, successful and critically acclaimed and iconic, the MAGA friendly editor in charge of CBS News in 60 Minutes might be about to add another highly regarded news organization to her portfolio. Already there have been some eyebrow raising changes there even before Bari Weiss takes the reigns at cnn. Beth and White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [17:25]
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- [18:55]
Nicole Wallace
Rebecca, Sarah, Scott and Harry. So, Harry, this all sounds like it's out of the Onion, but Todd Blanche is going to stand for confirmation. In terms of all of the deeply unpopular things Trump is doing. The war with Iran is probably number one. The disastrous economy might be number two. Those probably flip and flop based on the price of gas. But weaponization of DOJ and the slush fund for insurrectionists is way up there. What is the possible scenario for someone who wants to be the country's top lawyer to try to claim that this is legal at all?
- [19:31]
Harry Lippman
Yeah. So first on that question, there honestly is none. If he's trying to do it with a contrived settlement agreement, that doesn't work. The Constitution says that's not a case and they previously defended against cases just like Trump's. So that wouldn't work. And if he's trying to say, well, it's not a settlement agreement, I just want to give the boss some money, that doesn't work either. In terms of what you're saying, it's really important because the Republican opposition that has somewhat stiffened its spine has been over this. Thom Tillis in particular, who's in the committee, could balk. And there are others as well. And then of course, the other big thing for him that this will put back in play. And the other issue that Trump has not been able to rid himself of is Epstein, where his fingerprints are all over it, even up to the point where Bondi, Tim Bundy threw him under the bus. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I didn't even know about Maxwell and the better assignment illegal until I read it in the paper. So, yeah, he comes in with some real sort of flack, and I don't see how he legally navigates this particular thing. And the other part of it, which people aren't focused on so much, the amnesty for Trump is equally outrageous. It's a direct bounty, taxpayer funded, of 100 million or more. He's going to have to answer for that as well.
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Nicole Wallace
Scott, when you sort of look at the evolution of the big lie. Right, so it starts with Trump's own speech on the Ellipse. You gotta fight like hell or you won't have a country as a direct quote to telling everyone to go home, but I love you is what he said as the violence started to wane that day to the Jack Smith investigation and through all of that to immunity. I mean, the natural extension, I suppose, is wanting to put cash in the pockets of the insurrectionists. Themselves. But it is ominous when you pair it with Sarah's reporting about the desired timing, that he wanted the cash in the pockets of the insurrectionists and the allies to happen around the midterms. With all the other dots in this story together, what do you see?
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Scott McFarland
I see a validation, Nicole, of what the rioters and the people who beat police officers did by Trump ahead of the next election. I mean he is communicating through money and through his words that he supports and triumphantly champions what happened January 6, 2021 behind me. That horror show was justifiable according to Trump, which raises the concern and the concern of a number of Democrats here, Nicole, that he is infusing the next violent attack after the next election with which he's displeased. These lies he's sowing about California are going to be so important in November. Cuz Nicole, we're gonna be here the night of November 3rd and November 4th waiting for California to come in before we know potentially who has control of the US House. How malignant and dangerous those election lies are gonna be in November compared to what they are over the past week. It's next level. And yeah, the rioters had a sense predicted in open court sometimes, Nicole, they were gonna get pardoned and they were gonna get paid off for their legal troubles. They have been self aggrandizing, self important people in many cases and they've used the President's words to buttress their arguments and their own self worth.
- [23:01]
Nicole Wallace
Sarah, where is this heading inside the Department of Justice? There have been other controversial sort of extrajudicial things that have led to mass resignations, like the attempt to prosecute Democratic officials in Minnesota. Is the slush fund creating any similar tensions?
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Sarah Fitzpatrick
You know, Nicole, I think what happens inside the Department of Justice right now is just, it's a real morale, I'm told, has never been lower for a variety of reasons. I think the idea of a mass resignation that time has already passed. The types of people that would do that so far have left or have been forced out. You know, so many people have been left. And so what you have now is a skeletal staff that is being asked to do more with less. And you have a group of people I think that feel a responsibility to one keep their heads down. They are concerned about being polygraphed. They are concerned about being even perceived as political, much less having any political affiliation. And so I think you see a lot of people just putting their heads down and trying to get through the day and trying to survive. And every day we see more and more people retiring, people leaving. But there's just to be very honest, and this is what makes reporting on the Department of Justice so difficult at this moment, is there's just so few people left and they're very, very frightened. Of course, within the Justice Department, there are some people who are true believers who believe that this weaponization fund was absolutely a great idea, as I reported, and just felt that the rollout was handled, wasn't handled well. It was too public, it was too flashy. But there's a real tension within the Justice Department and within the leadership and we're going to see how that plays out as they have to defend this fund in court.
- [24:46]
Nicole Wallace
Surface. Patrick, more amazing reporting. Thank you. Scott McFarland, thank you for your reporting. And Harry, thank you for keeping us honest and smart about it all. When we come back, after exchanging attacks over the past two days, Donald Trump promised to hit Iran, quote, in all caps, very hard. Tonight. Back down a couple hours later. It comes as questions row about a US Strike on an Iranian civilian drinking water facility. It is a strike that could be considered a war crime. We'll bring you all that reporting after a short break.
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- [26:46]
Nicole Wallace
Donald Trump is now saying he has canceled scheduled military strikes against Iran tonight because of coronavirus, quote, discussions with Iran. The latest swerve from Donald Trump and his non strategy to get the United States of America out of a deeply unpopular war with Iran. Hours earlier, Trump had threatened to hit Iran, quote, very hard again tonight in what would have been the third straight night of airstrikes. He also threatened to take over Iran's oil rich Kharg island, which handles 90% of the country's crude exports, and to take, quote, total control of Iran's oil and gas markets. Donald Trump offered no explanation for how he had planned to pull any of those things off, but it would almost certainly require putting U.S. men and women, U.S. troops on the ground to be successful. Well, the New York Times reports that strikes yesterday destroyed what appears to be a drinking water facility on Iran's southern coast near the Strait of Hormuz. And that, quote, it is unclear if the US Intentionally struck the water facilities or knew what was in the buildings. But deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure could constitute a war crime under international law. In response to that New York Times report, CENTCOM spokesperson said this, that the military is aware of the reports and is looking into them. I want to bring in our military analyst, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He served as the commanding general of the US army in Europe. Also joining us, senior national security reporter David Rhode. David, you were here like exactly 24 hours ago the same point in the same hour. What changed? Why does Trump back off the threat today?
- [28:32]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Look, the best case scenario is that Iran has somehow changed its position on its enriched uranium, on its control of the Strait of Hormuz, and on its demands for its frozen assets to be returned. The problem is there's no indication that Iran has changed its position. So I don't know why the president has gone from threatening to take Carg island and, you know, heavily bomb Iran as well, to we're on the verge of signing a peace agreement. And I think you cited this earlier, but different Iranian outlets. One Iranian official told Nzama Rashid, our colleague, and then separately, a semi fars, it's a semi state controlled news agency. Iranian officials are saying right now they have not agreed to any memorandum of understanding. There is no agreement. So the president's talking about a signing ceremony in Europe this weekend, but Iran is saying it has agreed to nothing.
- [29:28]
Nicole Wallace
I want to ask you about the water facility as well, David. This is from the New York Times. An analysis of satellite Image and videos suggest precision US Strikes on Iranian water facility. Iranian state media reports that the US had hit water storage buildings, and a local official said that water was cut off to more than 20,000 people living in a town and villages nearby. Temperatures in that area have reached above 100 degrees Fahrenheit this week. How do the attacks on things like water facilities move Iran toward what Trump wants, which is to get them to the negotiating table? I would think it would harden the Iranian people's support for the most extreme positions that their government could take.
- [30:19]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
It would. And if you systematically attack water systems in this region, it's an incredible escalation. There's a chance that this was one power plant that was mistakenly bombed by the US it is so different in the region because desalination plants are critical across the Middle East. Riyadh in Saudi Arabia. If Iran were to retaliate and hit a desalinization plant there, you would have millions of people without water to drink in Dubai, in Kuwait City, and in Tehran itself. So neither side. There's been allegations a few times about Iran hitting a desalination plant in the uae. And now you have this strike in Iran. Maybe it was intentional. Maybe it was supposed to be a warning. But if that was the actual strategy of the US to do that, it's a very dangerous strategy, because across the region, they need desalinization plants. And it's seen as. Until now, it's been something you just did not do. If it's systematic, it's a war crime. But this is a region that needs drinking water, and they can only get it from these plants.
- [31:25]
Nicole Wallace
General Hertling, what do you see as you take in the events of the last 24 hours?
- [31:31]
David Rhode
Well, we can talk about a series of different events, Nicole. The first one, just to carry on what David just said about the desalinization plant. We heard the president this morning say on Fox News that they had spent $250 million on weapons last night. And that's probably accurate because all of these are precision weapons. They're hitting targets that were probably in a target folder that centcom, and we're prepared to strike. So whenever you have that many targets, and you saw the pictures that the New York Times showed in the article, it doesn't look like a desalinization plan. It just looks like a big block of concrete in the middle of a small town. But that shows that sometimes targeting processes really don't understand some of the various targets that they're hitting and the effects on the ground. But I Want to bring in another part of this because, you know, we watched a couple of weeks ago, Admiral Cooper testify before Congress, and he was really put on a hot seat by several senators who were asking him about Secretary Hegseth's comment about giving no quarters to our enemy. He dodged those questions. And to me, that. That really was very uncomfortable for me, watching him do this. But on the 26th of May, Admiral Cooper put out a memo to his forces about protecting civilian life and how it's a part of our professional fighting forces culture. And he said, quote. I'm quoting it now, it is embedded in how we plan, how we target, and how we fight. And he then said, our commitment to the law of armed conflict is not a constraint on our lethality. That's a Pokemon at Secretary Hegseth. He said it's the source of our legitimacy, the reason our partners choose to stand with us, and a direct contributor to our operational effectiveness. So all of those things are an indicator to me that he's abiding by the rule of law and the law of land warfare and the Geneva Convention. So if this strike against the desalination plant was a mistake, and it likely was, then it is one of those kinds of things that happen in war. But it also tells me that the targeteers of CENTCOM got to be a little bit better in terms of their refinement of the targets.
- [33:58]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, is it possible that he's saying those things out loud? Because there's a question the world over about Hegset's direction and leadership of the Pentagon.
- [34:06]
David Rhode
I actually think it's a. It's a message to the troops. I've given those kind of messages, too, because you have to reinforce the culture and the dynamics of the military profession. And, you know, he can't go against his boss in public. He sidestepped a lot of the questions on Congress. But he's telling his soldiers or, you know, all of his military forces, this is what I believe, and this is what you should believe, and we better get it straight. I think he's basically reinforcing what all of us as military professionals grow up with in our. In our training.
- [34:40]
Nicole Wallace
It's extraordinary moment. An incredible insight. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you for pointing that out for us. David Rowe, thank you for your reporting. I'm sure you'll be here 24 hours from now with more. Thank you so much for today. When we come back, just days after essentially destroying, in the words of Scott Pelley, quote, murdering the iconic 60 Minutes broadcast, the MAGA friendly boss of CBS News is reportedly a big step closer to adding another major news organization to her portfolio. But Barry Wise could do to CNN is our next story.
- [35:23]
Oliver Darcy
There was a thumb on the scale for the president's version of events that I felt was a level of political
- [35:34]
David Rhode
influence that I had never seen in 37 years at CBS News.
- [35:40]
Nicole Wallace
Do you think Barry Weiss needs to be removed?
- [35:43]
Oliver Darcy
Oh, gosh, yes. Look, she's a lovely person, but this is like somebody walking up to me and saying, there's a 747. There are 400 people on it. We need you to fly it to Paris.
- [36:00]
David Rhode
I'm going to decline because I don't have a clue.
- [36:07]
Nicole Wallace
Wow. That was how 60 Minutes veteran correspondent Scott Pelley describes his former boss Barry Weiss after he was fired last week. CBS News is, quote, on fire, according to Pelly, while being run by Barry Weiss, who he and other fire correspondents accuse of editorial interference and tipping the scales in favor of Donald Trump. Yet it looks like Barry Weiss's reward for doing all that will be to have an expanded portfolio. Axios is reporting that CBS's parent company Paramount has held, quote, preliminary conversations with several candidates for a business side counterpart to Bari Weiss, according to two sources familiar with the network's inner workings. That search Axio says, quote, implies that if Paramount Skydance's deal with Warner Bros. Discovery goes through, Bari Weiss would oversee all news editorial across both CBS News and cnn. Gulp. I want to bring in Oliver Darcy who has been diligently covering this story for viewers of this program and for his newsletter status. Oliver Darcy. The incentives have to be opaque, right? They're obviously not success. The ratings are down. They're obviously not trust. They've destroyed the most trusted broadcast in this country, one of the most trusted broadcasts in the world. They're obviously not taking broadcasts and making it digital because 60 minutes did that better than anything on television. What is she being rewarded for doing?
- [37:38]
Oliver Darcy
That's a very good question. And there's also broken trust too. Let's not forget between the staff that she's supposed to lead and, and Bari Weiss herself. So there's, there's no trust at all, not only with the viewers, but also with the staff. And so it's questionable, highly questionable how she could lead a much larger newsroom in cnn. You know, I think it's clear that David Ellison sees eye to eye with Bari Weiss on her editorial perspectives. They clearly must be ideologically aligned there. And, and that's why he was so enamored by the free press to purchase it for an absurd 150 some million dollars and bring her over to run CBS News. The question is really whether she's even capable in any sort of way of running cnn. I mean, I was talking to a CNN executive earlier this week and they pointed out, I just read you the quote. They said the notion of someone who is openly failing at running editorial for seven US shows can add 50 more global ones and 150 hours of live news programming a week, not to mention a massive global website, is absurd. And it's hard really to disagree with that. You look at the damage that she's already caused to CBS News, which is really tiny compared to a network like cnn, which is, you know, it's got an international network, it's got the US network, it's running live programming on sensitive topics 24 7. I can't imagine how she's going to oversee that. But this, this reporting is correct. As far as earlier this year, Paramount was poised to give Barry Weiss editorial control over CNN. Maybe the 60 Minutes debac was changed, that we don't know, but that certainly was the plan.
- [39:19]
Nicole Wallace
So you did some incredible and intrepid reporting while you're still at CNN about the Chris Lick chapter. I interviewed Don Lemon for my podcast this week and he had nothing complimentary to say comparing Barry Weiss to Chris Licht. What is the vibe inside CNN about Basically Chris Lick 2.0, except really super empowered by the corporate structure?
- [39:48]
Oliver Darcy
Honestly, Nicole, I think that the, one of the worst newsrooms disasters I have covered prior to this was CNN under Chris Licht. But it feels like when I'm talking to people inside CBS News, the situation is so much more dire. I mean, keep in mind things are bad under Chris Licht. But you didn't see like Anderson Cooper going to the New York Times and saying this place is on fire and Chris Licht needs to be fired. Right. Like the idea like that, the, the notion that the face of CBS News was fired by Barry Weiss and then went out and spoke out so strongly against her really tells you everything you need to know. And so inside cnn, people are worried. People are very alarmed. I mean, they're watching this very closely. It's like they're watching Barry Weiss basically deform CBS News knowing that within weeks they could be next. And I think they're hoping that David Ellison wakes up and realizes that she's not, you know, responsible enough, doesn't have the experience to run a network as complex as cnn. But, you know, it really remains to be seen. I mean, I think when you talk to people close to David Ellison, they will tell you David really likes Bari Weiss. He really believes in her. And it's unclear to me whether he is under the illusion that all she needs is a seasoned business manager by her side to get this done. It's not a business problem that CBS News has. It's an editorial problem. And it's coming from the editor in chief herself, Bari Weiss.
- [41:18]
Nicole Wallace
Some of the things we've learned about in terms of editorial interference include Bari Weiss asking Scott Pelley to change the tape, the video, the images and the content inside his coverage of Minneapolis while that city was on fire after ICE agents killed two American citizens who were protesting. We've also seen at her directions, I salute you, Marco Rubio was a piece on the evening newscast that she oversees that she was responsible for. She's been accused of, quote, murdering 60 minutes. What is the sort of degree of concern about what she will do to CNN's news programs?
- [42:04]
Oliver Darcy
There's a high degree of concern, Nicole. I mean, earlier this week, in fact, some of the CNN journalists, the top CNN journalist anchors, Anderson Cooper, Christian Amanpour, Wolf Blitzer, they were participating in this memorial for Ted Turner, the founder of cnn. And they all vowed to uphold, to the best of their ability, the editorial independence of cnn. But the reality is that if David Ellison comes in and installs Barry Weiss as editor in chief, the editorial independence of CNN is over. It's been breached at that point.
- [42:33]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [42:33]
Oliver Darcy
And David Ellison promised, For instance, the 60 Minute staff that they were going to have editorial independence. As Scott Pelley revealed in that New York Times interview, it didn't work out so well. So words are easy. I'm sure that David Ellison will promise editorial independence for cnn. He's already done that. But the actions speak a lot louder than the words. And if you look at what's happened to CBS News and you're a CNN anchor or CNN journalist, it's hard not to be worried. And it's not even the outright instructions that Barry Weiss might give, like in the case of Scott Pelley and this Renee Goode story that he was working on. It's a lot of self censorship that often happens, too, when someone like Barry Weiss takes over. People who work inside these networks, there are thousands of them. They have mortgages to pay, kids to feed kids to get through school. And so if it's. They know it's going to be problematic, I think, for new management if they insert certain language into scripts or stories. I think what you see often is a chilling effect. And people start to not use those words, not be so aggressive, to soften the coverage. And that also worries me.
- [43:39]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, the self censorship. Oliver Darcy, something you never do. Thank you for bringing us your reporting on this story. To be continued. One more break. We'll be right back. We have covered over the course of the last two hours, Todd Blanche, who Donald Trump has officially nominated to be the next attorney general. So ahead of his Senate confirmation process, listen to what my guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast, former DOJ pardon attorney Liz Oyer has to say about Todd Blanch, Trump's one time personal attorney.
- [44:13]
Liz Oyer
For Trump, it's all about power. He wants to use the powers of government. He doesn't actually care about governing. And what he needs is people who will enable him to use those powers in ways that they are not designed and not intended. And Todd Blanche has demonstrated that he is one of those people. Trump burned through people in the first Justice Department. He was very unhappy with Jeff Sessions because he recused himself from the Russia, which meant that he wasn't useful to Donald Trump. He wasn't there carrying out his political agenda. And now Todd Blanche knows that if he does that, he will be relegated to the periphery of the Trump administration. He wants a seat of power. And so he has demonstrated that he is willing to blow through all of the institutional guardrails at the Justice Department in service of the political agenda of Donald Trump.
- [45:03]
Nicole Wallace
The rest of that conversation is out now on YouTube. You just scan the QR code on your screen or download the best people wherever you your podcast. Liz is brilliant and she's been on the inside. Give it a listen and let me know what you think. Thank you for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.
- [45:18]
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