"The hypocrisy of Trump 2.0"

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The hypocrisy of Trump 2.0"

Deadline: White House with Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW
Date: March 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Deadline: White House" is a scathing analysis of the ongoing hypocrisy and political maneuvering inside the Trump administration, in particular focusing on the weaponization of the FBI under Director Kash Patel, the administration's war against law firms, and the controversy surrounding Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Host Nicolle Wallace and guests break down current threats to national security, major purges within federal agencies, and the chilling moral implications of top officials' behavior, all set against the backdrop of war with Iran and turbulent domestic politics.

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1. The Purge at the FBI and Weaponization of Justice (Starts at 01:04)

Discussion Points

• Kash Patel’s Promise vs. Reality:
  Wallace highlights Kash Patel's repeated promises (on record and under oath) not to politicize the FBI or engage in retaliation, juxtaposing these with his recent actions—firing a dozen highly specialized FBI agents who played key roles in the classified documents investigation into Donald Trump.
  Quote:

  “There's a word for that. Hypocrite is the nice one.” (Nicole, 04:50)

• Impact of the Firings:
  According to reporting by Carol Lenning, this purge removed veteran counterespionage experts right before the US launched bombing strikes on Iran, directly increasing domestic security risks at the worst possible time.

  Quote:

  “It’s difficult to say which…is more disconcerting: that Kash Patel…didn’t know that his government was about to carry out an attack that would necessitate an advanced focus…or that Patel did know …and decided to fire those agents…anyway?” (Nicole, 01:41)

• Internal Fallout:
  The firings rattled the FBI’s ranks, particularly as staff braced for more dismissals due to their engagement in the Trump documents probe. The FBI’s official response focused on the ongoing “robust counterintelligence operation.”

Notable Moment

• Wallace exposes the contradiction between Patel's anti-politicization rhetoric and his massive, politically motivated personnel purge, framing it as dangerous hypocrisy (01:41).

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2. National Security on the Eve of War (05:01–15:29)

Discussion Points

• Expertise Gutted at the Worst Time:
  Carol Lenning explains that the disbanded unit was not only investigating Trump but also uniquely qualified to handle counter-espionage threats from Iran—vital as the US enters armed conflict.

  Quote:

  “It also happens to be terrible for our efforts to really use the expertise that we had, veterans who are seasoned investigators…” (Carol Lenning, 05:56)

• Elevated Threats Post-Attack:
  Nicole and Carol discuss the heightened danger to American officials and interests following the assassination of Iran’s Supreme Leader—comparing it to previous events (like the Soleimani strike) and how such attacks spawn additional Iranian operations targeting US figures.

• Loss of Institutional Knowledge:
  Andrew Weissman reflects on the real-world dangers of firing seasoned counterintelligence staff at a critical moment, warning:

  Quote:

  “You get rid of those people, we are less safe, I can assure you. You want the grownups in the room with that expertise…” (Andrew Weissman, 12:51)

• A ‘Boneheaded Move’:
  Michael Feinberg—who knew the fired agents personally—stresses their irreplaceable expertise in Iranian threats and deems their removal “not an exaggeration to say… it was the cream of the crop.”

  Quote:

  “I cannot overstate enough, frankly, what a boneheaded move it was to get rid of all of them at this point in history.” (Feinberg, 14:31)

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3. The Personal Conduct of Trump’s Top Officials (15:29–17:45)

Discussion Points

• Eroding the Image of Leadership:
  Nicolle sharply contrasts the purported priorities and behaviors of administration figures—calling out Kash Patel for public drunkenness and Tulsi Gabbard and Pam Bondi for their controversial public actions as symbolic of broader ethical failings.

  Quote:

  “Pictures live forever. And that will forever be the image of the country’s only director of the FBI. Hours ahead, the United States declaring war on Iran.” (Nicole, 17:45)

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4. Trump’s “War on Law Firms” and Legal Chaos (20:59–28:56)

Discussion Points

• Flip-Flopping on the Executive Order:
  Wallace, Andrew Weissman, and NYT’s Mike Schmidt dissect Trump’s decision to both withdraw and then reassert legally dubious executive orders targeting law firms that refused to support him, illustrating chaotic policy driven by Trump’s aversion to looking weak.

  Quote:

  “No judge has actually said that what they were doing passed muster. Like they lost all cases.” (Weissman, 23:25)
  “In the Trump era we might be beyond legal and illegal. I'm not sure.” (Kash Patel, 26:19)

• Capitulation and Fear:
  The segment explores why some firms capitulate (even under obviously illegal directives) and the chilling effect on the legal community.

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5. The Kristi Noem Controversy: Character and Consequence (30:49–42:41)

Discussion Points

• A Cabinet Secretary Under Fire:
  Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem faces grilling from both Democrats and (significantly) Republicans for her department’s handling of fatal ICE cases and for her personal history—including killing her own dog and goat for “bad behavior,” events she outlined in her own book.

• Brutal Senate Rebukes:
  Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC), retiring and emboldened, delivers a rare public, bipartisan denunciation of Noem’s decision-making and character:

  Quote:

  “You decided to kill that dog because you had not invested the appropriate time in training… you have the audacity to go into a book and say it’s a leadership lesson about tough choices.” (Sen. Tillis, 32:44)

• Systemic Cruelty and Incompetence:
  Commentary connects Noem’s personal conduct with a “move fast and break things” mentality pervading the Trump administration, embodied in ICE’s worsening record on detainee deaths and indifferent leadership.

  Quote:

  “Kristi Noem is treating American citizens like she treats her dogs. That’s basically what [Sen. Tillis] was saying.” (Miles Taylor, 35:57)

• Larger Republican Discontent:
  Analysts note that with figures like Noem, Trump’s lack of even the pretense of “the best people” or competent, moral leadership is on display—and this is now being acknowledged on both sides of the aisle.

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• "There's a word for that. Hypocrite is the nice one."
  — Nicole, 04:50

• "You get rid of those people, we are less safe, I can assure you. You want the grownups in the room…"
  — Andrew Weissman, 12:51

• "I cannot overstate enough… what a boneheaded move it was to get rid of all of them at this point in history."
  — Michael Feinberg, 14:31

• "You decided to kill that dog… then you have the audacity to… say it's a leadership lesson."
  — Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC), 32:44

• "In the Trump era we might be beyond legal and illegal. I'm not sure."
  — Kash Patel, 26:19

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6. Political Fallout—Primaries in Texas (43:28–44:39)

Brief Segment

• Primaries Kick Off:
  Live reporting from Texas highlights massive turnout and the historic possibility of Democrats taking statewide office, underscoring the stakes of political engagement in contrast to the chaos and controversy described earlier in the episode.

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Final Thoughts

This episode paints a portrait of a second Trump term marked by extreme partisanship, impulsive and vengeful governance, and a disregard for institutional and moral norms. The guests and host provide urgent, at times chilling, insight into the real-world consequences—from national security vulnerabilities to the character of those leading the most critical institutions—while documenting the rare bipartisan pushback now emerging within both the legal system and the legislative branch.

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• FBI Purge & Hypocrisy: 01:04–05:01
• National Security Dangers: 05:01–15:29
• Personal Conduct of Officials: 15:29–17:45
• Legal War on Law Firms: 20:59–28:56
• Kristi Noem’s Hearing & Cabinet Character: 30:49–42:41
• Texas Primary Live Report: 43:28–44:39

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Tone:
Incisive, astute, often incredulous in the face of hypocrisy and chaos, with intermittent moments of dark humor and personal reflection from Nicolle Wallace.

For Listeners:
This summary gives you the key developments, insights, and notable quotes you need to understand the latest from Washington—and why it matters for the country’s security, rule of law, and moral compass in 2026.

Transcript

[Andrew Weissman]

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[Nicole]

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[Kash Patel]

look, this is a complete weaponization of justice and politicization to advance a narrative rather than protect the American citizenry. And as I told you in your office, I have no interest, no desire and will not, if confirmed, go backwards. There will be no politicization at the FBI. There will be no retributive actions taken by any FBI should I be confirmed as the FBI director. And this is the focus of this FBI. We aren't about politics and we're certainly not about weaponization. We're not chasing down our political enemies. We are holding those accountable to the American public that did weaponize it. That's not us weaponizing government. They are the hypocrites.

[Nicole]

Hi again Everybody. It's now five o'clock in New York. Hypocrite is a fascinating word for Kash Patel to select considering its source. An FBI director who not only promised under oath and in interviews that his agency and he would refrain from retaliating against targets of Donald Trump, it's been proven a lie. But also, as you just heard, insisted that the the FBI would refrain from putting politics ahead of the health and safety and security of the American people. Quote, the complete weaponization of justice and politicization to advance a narrative rather than protect the American citizen. So again, we'll let you decide Kash Patel's use of the word hypocrite in evaluating the latest reporting from our msnow colleague Carol Lennock, who writes this, quote, when FBI Director Kaj Patel fired a dozen FBI agents and staff last week for their role in the classified documents investigation of Donald Trump. He targeted an elite counterespionage unit that investigates threats from foreign adversaries and specializes in Iran. That's according to more than a half dozen sources with knowledge of the firings. The firings came as Kash Patel claimed, without evidence, that the team of FBI agents who investigated Donald Trump's hoarding of top secret records at his Mar a Lago club had engaged in improper investigative steps. But his gutting of the global espionage unit known as CI12 also came days before Donald Trump launched Operation Epic Fury, a series of bombing strikes on Iran that killed the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. It's difficult to say which of the two possibilities is more disconcerting, really. That Kash Patel, the FBI director, didn't know that his government was about to carry out an attack that would necessitate an advanced focus, a real shoring up on protecting America and the homeland from retaliation inside his agency? Or that Patel did know that the attack against Iran, the war, was going to be started, and decided to fire those agents with that expertise anyway? What we do know is that as recently as yesterday, people inside the FBI were bracing for the possibility that Kash Patel would fire more FBI agents and staff on that elite counterespionage unit that specializes in Iran. In response, an FBI spokesperson tells msnow that the FBI does not comment on personnel matters, but maintains a, quote, robust counterintelligence operation with personnel all over the country. Again, this issue has nothing to do with the hard working men and women of the FBI. It has everything to do with an FBI director who swore up and down that he would prioritize the safety of the American people over politics and weaponization before firing agents who dared to follow orders from above and investigate Donald Trump when our country needs them the most. There's a word for that. Hypocrite is the nice one. It's where we start the hour. Senior investigative reporter Carol Lenning is here. We just read from her chilling reporting. Also joining us, former top DOJ official and former general counsel for the FBI. Our legal analyst Andrew Weissman's here. And former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI, national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg is here. Caroline, this is incredible. Take us through what you're reporting.

[Carol Lenning]

Well, Nicole, thanks for focusing a light on this. You know, there have been so many purges of FBI agents and staff that sometimes we can all get a little numb to that news. We report it dutifully but in this case, in addition to roiling the FBI community by claiming that FBI agents who worked on the classified documents case involving Donald Trump had engaged in some sort of impropriety and in obtaining phone records, this particular decision by FBI Director Kash Patel also gutted a unit based in Washington, D.C. that does a lot of different things, including classified records cases, including mishandling of sensitive national defense information, but also has an expertise in finding and intercepting threats from our foreign adversaries in the Middle east, particularly in Iran. And this really, you know, was kind of like the worst twofer, if you will, for people inside the FBI, sources of ours who reached out to us and said, you know, this is terrible that these people have lost their jobs. It also happens to be terrible for our efforts to really use the expertise that we had, veterans who really are seasoned investigators and know what these threats look like on American soil.

[Nicole]

Caroline? It's my understanding that Lisa Monaco, the deputy to Merrick Garland, that the threats were so dire after the strike that killed Soleimani, and there was protection for former CIA Director Mike Pompeo, former National Security Advisor John Bolton, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mark Milley, that it actually rose to her level and she spent a lot of time on this, that the threat environment that existed when Donald Trump got there was as high as it could be. Just talk about how, on top of that high level, how much more risk there is when you launch a war against Iran.

[Carol Lenning]

Well, I'm so glad you mentioned former Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco, because I remember getting a copy of a memo that she had written in which she authorized an unusual, highly unusual tactic to interview a person who was believed to be an Iranian hitman, essentially, and to interview him without his lawyer, based on emerging, constant, and possibly imminent threats to national security in America. This was in the early morning hours after Donald Trump was nearly assassinated as a candidate for office on the campaign trail. And so she has really, really had been focused on this issue in a dramatic way and believed it was essential to figure out whether this Iranian operative that was being, how do you say, monitored by undercover FBI agents to figure out if that person had any knowledge of the attempt on Donald Trump's life when he was a candidate before winning reelection as well. I would say that one of the key things we need to know about that individual, Asif Merchant, is he was just one of many Iranian operations spawned in the wake of that bombing you mentioned that killed General Soleimani. And now if we're going to bomb and kill the AYATOLLAH and several other senior leaders in Iran. I'm no expert, but you can only imagine, if past is prologue, how many more operations are going to be launched to harm Trump and to harm who else knows in America.

[Nicole]

Michael Feinberg, take us through what your understanding is of the time that you left the FBI, what the threat was before the war began to Americans here and abroad from Iran.

[Michael Feinberg]

It's fairly high, I'd say, particularly with respect to their willingness to take action against current and former government officials in the United States. And they're also a very active cyber threat, as has been publicly documented numerous times. Iran is a particularly tricky country. We don't have diplomatic relations with them, so we do not engage in this sort of depressurizing talks from time to time that we would engage with, even with other adversaries like Russia or China. And it's worth noting that the threat is so dire that one of Iran's main security services, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, is the only Foreign States intelligence service that is also cross listed as a designated foreign terrorist organization. So the threat from Iran is acute during the best of times, and it has been since 1979. But we are engaged in armed conflict now, and we know that when we have taken action against their officials, they will attempt to respond in kind.

[Nicole]

Andrew Weissman, since the first day of Trump's presidency, I actually believe on the day of his inauguration, we've been covering politically motivated purges of probably centuries of expertise at the Department of Justice and the FBI. I think everyone, folks, like all three of you, frankly, have worried that this day would come, that the threat would somehow be elevated and that not just maintaining some sort of security for the four years of Trump's presidency in the best of times, would be possible, Right? The luckiest, the best outcome for America, but that the threat wouldn't increase. There is no one who thinks that the threat hasn't dramatically increased, and there is no one who thinks that our capabilities haven't been dramatically gutted at the Department of Justice and the FBI. Just talk about your best assessment of what remains.

[Andrew Weissman]

Sure. So when I was at the department, what I felt like my job was was to attract the best, the smartest people I could find. And then for the people like that, how do I retain them so that we could do the absolute best work? And the area where, you know, I learned from Director Mueller at the FBI that you cared about the most was national security. Of all of the things that was the number one priority was to make sure there would not be another 9, 11, whether it's adhere internally to the United States or externally. And I've told this story before, but when I first was general counsel to the FBI and I saw the Presidential Daily Brief, which lists all of the threat streams, the kinds of things that Michael and Carol have been talking about, and it's, it's jaw dropping, the, the, the number and the volume and what seems like each and every one that has to be tracked down. Each and every one seems so important. And yet I watched senior people like Director Muller be able to focus on which ones he thought were particularly acute. That huge array. What did we have to do triage and really focus on? I was just in awe of the expertise that was needed and necessary to keep the country safe. You get rid of those people, we are less safe, I can assure you. You want the grownups in the room with that expertise who have been there and have a real sense of what to focus on. And you could not think of a more sensitive time than we're in right now to have those people there. It is the job of senior leadership like Kash Patel not to be firing expertise. It should be trying to keep those people on board and not be playing politics at a time when your job is to keep the country safe.

[Nicole]

Michael Feinberg, just explain why the agents who would have been involved in investigating Donald Trump's taking and keeping and lying about and trying to flood his server room, national defense information, why any agent involved in investigating that would be the same kind of agent who was a counter intelligence expert.

[Michael Feinberg]

For the simple reason that people who are counterintelligence, particularly counterespionages, this SWAT in question are the ones that deal the absolute most with the theft and misuse of classified information. After all, that's what spies are after. So when there is a case that involves the mishandling of classified information without a foreign state involved, or if you don't know if there's a fore state involved or in a situation where carelessness could induce a foreign state to become involved, it naturally falls to those squads to get in there, triage what's going on and clean it up. And you know, I feel I need to note I'm not unbiased here. I have worked with and know almost all the agents on this squad that were affected by last week's terminations. And it is not an exaggeration to say that they were the cream of the crop. There is not an Iranian counter espionage case within my lifetime, quite frankly, that was not handled by that squad as an institutional organizational unit. And every agent on it was top notch, adept at their job, smart and possessed of good judgment. I mean, I cannot overstate enough, frankly, what a boneheaded move it was to get rid of all of them at this point in history.

[Nicole]

Gives me a physical reaction of dread to hear you say that, Caroline. Speaking of physical reactions, the last time the country saw Kash Patel publicly, he was guzzling beer. The last time the country saw Tulsi Gabbard publicly, she was at a raid of a Georgia election office. The last time the country saw Pam Bondi publicly, she was refusing to turn her body around and face the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's child sex trafficking and sexual abuse and rape. What, in your view is sort of the standing of these people in this moment of sort of grave threat to US national security?

[Carol Lenning]

I'm pausing for a moment to think about all three of them and base this solely on reporting. I think I should stick with Bondi and Patel and say that Kaj Patel is not viewed inside the FBI as an individual that is managing and running this office in the way that Chris Wray, Robert Mueller had done before him. This is a person who spent a lot of time in a, in a government Gulf stream. Five days heading to the Olympics for I think it was an hour and a half of meetings that people questioned whether those were necessary in any way. But many hours watching hockey games, one of his favorite sports, and guzzling beer afterwards in the locker room. And this video that emerged of Kash Patel guzzling beer and spraying it around on the hockey player teammates that he calls the boys. This video actually really ticked off the president of the United States who shared, we have learned since shared, that he was disappointed to see this behavior on camera. And yet it kind of comports with how he's viewed by FBI officials who feel it falls on them to run this bureau.

[Nicole]

Pictures live forever. And that will forever be the image of the country's only director of the FBI. Hours ahead, the United States declaring war on Iran. It's interesting. I mean, Trump doesn't drink. And so I wondered the theatrical drinking and, I don't know, parent acting like he had had more than one. It's interesting that Trump didn't like that. I guess even Trump has a bottom when it comes to drinking. Carolina gets an incredible piece of reporting. It's worrying, but it's really important. Thank you for bringing it to us. Michael Feinberg, thank you for eliminating all of it for us and starting us off. Andrew sticks around a little bit longer with us when we come back. Apparently afraid of looking like they were taking a loss, the Trump administration is reversing its reversal, reversing its position to walk away from its fight against big law. The on again, off again, now, on again war against law firms who refuse to bend the knee and capitulate to Donald Trump is our next story. Also ahead, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem has finally been shamed publicly for killing her daughter. She was also grilled by Democrats, and as we said, even a couple Republicans joined in, one of whom brought up that kill shot against her puppy, Cricket. He used it to make an example of her horrific judgment and decision making, especially around the deeply unpopular and deadly deportation campaign that has terrorized and traumatized the citizens of Minneapolis. We'll show you that moment later in the broadcast deadline. White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Hi, I'm Maria, salon owner.

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[Carol Lenning]

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[Nicole]

until a round of stinging press coverage declaring Donald Trump's law firm executive order such a colossal legal failure that even Trump's Justice Department would essentially drop it. Trump's retribution campaign against big law was temporarily on ice. Someone near Donald Trump must have smelled that defeat and said, stop the presses. The illegal war on law firms must continue. Tragically, it's not a story from the Onion. It's what happened today in the span of a few hours. New York Times reports it like this, quote, the Trump administration indicated on Tuesday that it planned to renew its defense of executive orders that it had leveled against law firms. In a motion filed with the appeals court in the District of Columbia where the cases are playing out, the Justice Department formally asked to withdraw its request on Monday to abandon the cases against four law firms. It was not immediately clear how the court would respond. The move on Monday was a notable concession from the White House. And it's not yet clear what exactly prompted today's about face. But as the Times reports, quote, one question that the administration's decision a day earlier to abandon its cases raised was whether the deals it made with nine law firms would survive and whether those contracts, which were not made public, were considered unconstitutional. Given that the district court ruling would be final, I want to bring in New York Times investigative reporter Mike Schmidt. Andrew's still with us. We should note, Andrew, you have a tie to one of the firms that is fighting back. Do you want to talk about the firms that decided to fight and what this means for them?

[Andrew Weissman]

Sure. So there were four law firms. They all challenged the executive orders. So there were four separate cases. One of the executive orders, the law firm of Jenner and Block, was targeted, and I was named in that. So this is sort of full disclosure, so I'm not completely dispassionate here. And the each of those executive orders was struck down the district courts. In all four cases, there were four separate district judges, and they all said that they were unconstitutional, violated the First Amendment, due process, Sixth Amendment, and struck them down. And so a real loss in every single way for the department with respect to those executive orders. However, other law firms, most notably Paul Weiss, essentially capitulated and agreed to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in pro bono services to the administration. Well, what happened was, as you noted, is the administration appealed. They have a right to appeal, and their papers were due and are due this Friday. And so yesterday we heard that the administration decided that they were not going to appeal anymore. And I think I was surprised when that happened. But I also thought they were going to lose. I mean, they lost, you know, four Zero. No judge has actually said that what they were doing passed muster. Like they lost all cases. Not a single judge had said these were fine. And so they must have smelled that they were going to have another defeat in the court of appeals. And they, I think, don't want to lose. Also in the Supreme Court, having just lost the tariff case, but within 12 hours they did an about face. So we don't know why they decided to throw in the towel Monday and we don't know why they sort of resurrected this on Tuesday. But there's a lot of sort of educated speculation about what's going on. The one thing we do know is it's about as high ham handed and haphazard as the indications we're getting from the administration about why we're at war with Iran. In other words, we can't get a straight story there. And here it's hard to know exactly what's going on other than we know there's no planned thought out process here because you wouldn't try to withdraw the case on Monday and then try and re reinstate it Tuesday.

[Nicole]

So, Mike, just take us through why the capitulated law firms stay capitulated if judge after judge after judge has said that these deals are unconstitutional because it's

[Kash Patel]

more important to them to be seen as not adverse to the administration or on the side of the administration, even

[Nicole]

if it breaks the law in the Constitution.

[Kash Patel]

These firms knew that the executive order was illegal when it came out. The executive orders. And Andrew will correct me if I'm wrong. There's not like on the executive orders. There's like, you know, one side, you know, of the aisle sees it one way. You know, one side of legal beagles see it as another. There's a widespread like understanding that there is nothing constitutional about this executive order. And you know, to the point that Andrew was saying four judges have ruled on it, all four, you know, found it unconstitutional. So the law people hate lawyers.

[Nicole]

So lawyers did something illegal to what,

[Kash Patel]

because they were afraid of Donald Trump

[Nicole]

and now they work for Boris at the Commerce Department.

[Kash Patel]

So what we know is that some of the law firms are doing free legal work for the administration, including for the Commerce Department.

[Nicole]

Legally or illegally?

[Kash Patel]

Well, I think in the Trump era we might be beyond legal and illegal. I'm not sure.

[Nicole]

But is it a bribe to work for free under a contract that's illegal?

[Kash Patel]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But at the end of the day, the administration is taking that work. Congress has asked Democrats have asked the law firms about this work and they sent back very terse, short, one page letters. And the law firms is a good example of where if the Democrats were in control of Congress, that's something where they would probably be able to get more answers than they already have. And even someone was saying to me the other day that if the Democrats were to win back control, you could see hearings on, you know, okay, Paul Weiss, like, why did you really do that?

[Nicole]

Rip up those illegal contracts?

[Kash Patel]

You know, why did you do that? But, but at the end of the day, the nine firms that did deals, including the firm Neil Katiel works for, including Paul Weiss, they did those deals. And it was widely known in the legal community that the executive orders were not legal. And what happened was yesterday and even this morning before the development and the story is that you had nine deals in place around something that the administration was no longer defending in court. Now they're back at it, defending it in court.

[Nicole]

What happened between the stories that they were not going to defend it and their reversal of their reversal?

[Kash Patel]

So we don't know. But we do know in the Trump administration that typically when things like this happen, it's that Donald Trump doesn't like being seen as weak or diminished at all. And in this instance, they were waving the white flag about the executive orders. I reported on the Harvard deal, about the administration in Harvard getting closer to a deal. That story included stuff in it a couple weeks ago about how Trump wanted to deal with Harvard because he was experiencing such low news and developments out of Minnesota and poll numbers, and Trump threw a fit and tore up the progress that had been made on that deal. So that is something that has happened before. And in this instance, you had the Justice Department going to court yesterday and saying, we are done with this, we are waving the white flag. We are not going to proceed with this. And then today, going back to the law firms and going back to court and saying, sorry, we need to do that again. And as I was talking to someone about this, this is not like the government was like, no, no, no, we said we didn't want to talk to that witness. And now we really do, or, you know, we want to do this. In this instance, this was the decision about whether to essentially give up on a central part of the retribution campaign.

[Nicole]

Unbelievable. Mike Schmidt, thank you for your reporting on it. Andrew Weissman, thank you for all of your contributions today across the hour. When we come back, the day has come when the country secretary of Homeland Security, who wrote in her own book about shooting and killing and murdering her own puppy. Finally heard about it from both sides of the aisle. We'll show you that moment. The Republican who used the killing of her own dog as an example of her poor judgment. That's on the other side of a break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Nicole]

This is very strange, Angie.

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[Nicole]

today Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee. And for Noem, it didn't go well. First, Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota gave Kristi Noem the opportunity to apologize to the parents of Alex Preddy and Renee Nicole Goode for the vile lies that she and her department spread about them in the immediate aftermath of their killings by federal immigration enforcement officers.

[Angie.com Announcer]

When I spoke to Alex's parents, they told me that you calling him a domestic terrorist. This was directly from them the day after he was killed. A nurse in our va, Alex, one of the most hurtful things they could ever imagine was said by you about their son. Do you have anything you want to say to Alex Preddy's parents?

[Nicole]

We were relying in the hours after that incident that was so horrific on information we were Getting from the ground.

[Angie.com Announcer]

You wanted to say to the parents

[Andrew Weissman]

or to the family of Renee Goode

[Angie.com Announcer]

after you called them domestic terrorists.

[Nicole]

Can't even imagine what they have gone through in the loss of their son and the loss of their family members.

[Angie.com Announcer]

But how about specifically calling them domestic terrorists without any evidence of that, Sir,

[Nicole]

Ma', am, I did not call him a domestic terrorist. I said it appeared to be an incident of.

[Kash Patel]

I think the parents saw it for what it was.

[Nicole]

Whole country did. But then the Republicans joined in, which was fascinating. This is Republican Senator Thom Tillis. He is retiring at the end of the year. Listen to how he describes Noem's tenure and lack of judgment and character now that he's free from any political laws of gravity. Or maybe because Donald Trump is at 34% and plunging. I don't know. Watch.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I read your book last week and honestly, some of the parts of it impress me, but some of it distresses me. And I'll give you a good example of one that does. The passage where you talk about killing a dog that was 14 months old. I trained dogs. All right? And you are a farmer. You should know better. You should know that if you're going out to a hunting lodge and you're putting pheasants out and you're putting dogs out, you don't take a puppy out there. A 14 month old dog is basically a teenager in dog years. You decided to kill that dog because you had not invested the appropriate time in training. And then you have the audacity to go into a book and say it's a leadership lesson about tough choices. It's in your book. We could play it if we had time. At that same lunch hour. You killed a goat. And you killed the goat because you said it was behaving badly.

[Angie.com Announcer]

You are a farmer.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You don't castrate a goat. They behave badly. You should have probably done that before. But my point is those are bad decisions made in the heat of the moment, not unlike what happened up in Minneapolis. I expect we're an exceptional nation. And one of the reasons we're exceptional is we expect exceptional leadership. And you've demonstrated anything but that in the time that I've seen you responding to the emergency in North Carolina and across the Southeast and acknowledging when mistakes are made and speaking too soon for the expedient of social media or whatever. It is

[Nicole]

too late, but at least it's happening. I want to bring in former DHS chief of staff during Donald Trump's first term as president. Miles Taylor and Democratic strategist and Columbia University professor, Mississippi NOW political analyst Basil Smichel. There is a long history of politicians doing one thing that crystallizes everything else they do in their personal and public life. For Mitt Romney, it was tying the family dog to the roof of his car for a trip. It became a window into what people thought made him detached. And then it was followed by other comments about his wealth. The story that Thom Tillis is talking about there is one that I've covered extensively. Because when you're looking at the character of people who do sadistic things, there is always an example of sadistic conduct towards small and innocent animals. Always. Now, everyone that does sadistic things to small animals doesn't turn into a serial killer. But just about every serial killer has a history of being sadistic toward innocent. We apologize for our technical gremlins. The views from dogs everywhere must have crashed the system. We were temporarily knocked off miles. But this window into Christine Ohm's character brought to a public hearing In Washington today, 13 months into Trump's term by a Republican, was a stunt. Stunning moment, especially to hear him tie it to her leadership of dhs. Your thoughts?

[Angie.com Announcer]

Yeah. We've never seen a Republican senator dress down the Secretary of Homeland Security in quite the way that Thom Tillis did. This is how I would sum the whole thing up, Nicole. He was basically saying, and I would agree, that Kristi Noem is treating American citizens like she treats her dogs. That's basically what he was saying, that her department has been treating Americans the way she treated that dog she put down on her farm. And when you heard that line of questioning about Alex Preddy and Renee, Nicole Goode, you saw that. You saw that borne out. Because she did call American citizens who were murdered by her officers domestic terrorists. And she did it to protect herself politically. Her first instinct was not caution or accountability. The kind of thing that we always tell a Secretary of Homeland Security to do. Be careful. In the immediate wake of an attack, it was just a rush to label them terrorists. So the story became about them and not about her. And I've seen administrations spin bad news. Trust me, that's what the first Trump administration was all about. But I've never seen a cabinet secretary smear the corpses of Americans who she was responsible for protecting. And today she tried to pretend she never said it. But the tape exists, Nicole. The parents are watching. And Senator Thomps called it out.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I mean, Basil, I've just never seen anyone tie the conduct of the current makeup of this Cabinet, which Donald Trump doesn't even describe as the best people. Right. That was his moniker for Jim Mattis, for his team 1.0. He's not used that word. He's not described this Cabinet as the best people. But I've not seen any Republican go back and look at the origin story of the character of any of these people and tie it to their poor performance on the job and if that's a window into how they're going to evaluate this Cabinet. Next to Pete Hegseth.

[Michael]

Yeah. I wish we could really see more of what Senator Tillis did today. And you're right to acknowledge in your intro that he is retiring. He has announced that he's retiring. However, I would add that there's another layer of concern here, which is that this president doesn't give his own party anything to run on. You know, he would have used the State of the Union to do something like that. He would be really out front in trying to address the concerns that clearly the polling is picking up, but he doesn't do that. He doubles down instead. And, you know, to Maz's point, it is true that Senator Tillis is sort of comparing her treatment of animals to her treatment of human beings who, you know, doesn't. Where she doesn't have this kind of regard. And 32 people died last year in ICE custody. That's the most that ICE has seen pass away in their custody in two decades, seven alone this year, which brings the total to 39. So what we're seeing is what I call the sort of gamification of America, move fast, break things with no attention to nuance, no acknowledgement of the consequences. And specifically with ice, it has been the sort of repository of all of the outrage that Trump brings about all of his reclamation and retribution. And it's as though that one agency, literally and figuratively, is the place, is the focal point of all of that anger that is not only reproduced there, but it's also rewarded. And there's nothing that Kristi Noem has done to slow that down. In fact, it's been exacerbated under her circle leadership. So I'm glad that Senator Tillis brought it out, but I just implore more Republicans to do the same.

[Nicole]

Miles, the damage that Trump has done to his own political standing is massive. The tariffs have plunged his approval rating on the economy to its lowest in his political life. His indifference to affordability is an issue that causes real anxiety for people, has also hurt him. But on immigration, it is both his extremist maximalist views married with Stephen Miller's Sort of free roaming. But the person most culpable for the lowest approval ratings Trump has ever had since he descended the escalator is Kristi Noem. And when you're also platforming this sick story, I mean, I think 100% of Americans probably agree on nothing other than shooting and murdering a puppy is sick shit. When that is being raised by members of your own party in televised hearings. How much of that does Donald Trump tolerate?

[Angie.com Announcer]

You know, I don't know. I mean, Donald Trump, if he cares about anything beside his own self interest, Nicole, he cares about telegenics and he cares about optics. And it's evident that he didn't hire Kristi Noem for her national security chops. He hired her for some other reason. And she's not really delivering the photo ops he wants anymore. She's delivering really bad photo ops in really bad news stories. So I've got to think that's why we've heard leaks out of the White House for months about the fact that Kristi Noem might be on the chopping block. There's no coincidence there. And when the President says he's very happy with her service. Look, I've seen that story before where he pretends to be happy with a cabinet secretary and where he secretly leaks against them. That's what he does to keep them on their toes. But I actually think it wasn't even the puppy stuff, Nicole. That was the most damning part of this hearing. I mean, the most damning part was the fact that it was clear that Kristi Noem has no idea what is happening in her own building. She repeatedly said in this hearing that she was unaware of specific abuses and specific incidents. And I gotta tell you, I helped run that place. The Secretary of Homeland Security gets briefed on all of these things of consequence, including things she kept denying that she knew about. And if she doesn't know that some of these things are happening in her department, some of the abuses, like Basil just mentioned, some of the deaths in her custody, then one of two things is true, Nicole. Either her staff is hiding them from her, or she is hiding those things from us. And neither answer is acceptable. Both of those answers would tell us something about her leadership of the department. And Cory Booker nailed it in that hearing when he said she is either incompetent or corrupt. There is no third option.

[Nicole]

Miles Taylor and Basil Snigel. I apologize again for the Gremlin. Thank you for joining me today. When we come back, there's plenty of excitement on the ground in Texas, where Voters are going to the polls in the first big primaries of this year's midterm elections. They're here. We'll check in at a polling place where lines are long. After a quick break, Today is the first big primary day of the year, the kickoff to finding out who will control Congress. Already we are seeing long lines to vote in an election where two Democratic candidates for Senate are facing off against each other, with tonight's winner hoping to turn that deep red state blue. Jacob Severoff is at a polling place at the University of Texas in Austin. He joins us now. What are you seeing, friend?

[Jacob Severoff]

Nicole, it's a very exciting energy here in Texas. Just take a quick look at the line. This is UT Austin and this is the Texas Union. This is the very beginning. It's not even the beginning of the line because people are all inside. But we don't want to go inside right now. I'm going to walk with you on the line just so you can get an idea of how many people are out here with a couple hours to go before the polls close. This is extremely consequential. It is the first time a Democrat could hold statewide office here in the better part of three decades. And when you look at all of these people, James Talarico, that state legislator from here in the Austin area, is on the ballot. Jasmine Crockett, the US Congresswoman as well from this state on the ballot. The early voter turnout, Nicole, was as high as any election that it has been since 1990, excuse me, since 2008, since Barack Obama faced off against Hillary Clinton here in Texas. I'm not going to walk this entire line because it literally stretches all the way around this block. When we come back at the top of our special at 7 o' clock Eastern Time when you and Rachel and everybody will be at the desk. I'm going to show you a lot more talk to you about what people are expecting here on the ground tonight. But this is turnout that the Talarigo campaign feels very good about. I have been talking to them. We will be over at his event as well tonight. It's all coming up at 7 o' clock on the east coast right here. And I can't wait to see the

[Nicole]

I'm just a little bit mad that you're all wearing T shirts. It snowed here this morning. Jacob Sobroff, thank you. I'll see you in an hour. As Jacob said, we'll all be back one hour from now. I'll get to be alongside Rachel and all of our primetime friends for full coverage of tonight's elections. It starts at 7. As a reminder, my guests this week on the Best People podcast talk about the stakes of these midterm elections. They are familiar faces to many of you. I sit down with Eddie Glad, Mitch Landrieu and Tom Nichols. They join me for a wide ranging, free for all kind of conversation about which the constraints of cable tv. Well, you can guess. There was no swear jar. Scan the QR code on your screen to watch on YouTube or download it to listen wherever you get your podcast. Thank you for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful. We apologize again for the glitch.

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Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Huh, Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace.

[Kash Patel]

Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

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Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.

[Michael]

Connecting homeowners with skilled Pros for over 30 years, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].