Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (2:42)

And we have. Right from the beginning, we projected four to five weeks, but we have capability to go far longer than that.

Ben Rhodes (2:52)

We'll do it.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (2:55)

Four to five weeks or far longer than that is what's being publicly stated. Wall Street Journal's reporting that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Dan Kaine, has raised concerns about running down the stockpile of munitions in the longer version that's been articulated. The Washington Post reports this quote. Inside the Pentagon and among some members of the Trump administration, there were deepening concerns on Sunday that the IR conflict could spiral out of control. According to people familiar with the situation, there is anxiety among senior leaders that the fighting will extend for weeks, further stressing limited US Air defense stockpiles, end quote. As for that timeline, Donald Trump told Axios that he could, quote, end it in two or three days. So all these different and conflicting timelines have been stated publicly. Donald Trump and his cabinet two or three days, weeks or, quote, much longer. Trump also told the New York Times that he had, quote, three very good choices as to who could lead Iran after an Israeli strike killed Iran's supreme leader. Then he told ABC's Don Carl that possible candidates to succeed the Ayatollah were killed in that strike, saying, this, quote, the attack was so successful it knocked out most of the candidates. It's not going to be anybody that we were thinking about because they are all dead. Second or third place is dead, end quote. As for the why, why we have attacked Iran. Now, Donald Trump told the Washington Post that regime change was the goal of the war. Quote, all I want is freedom for the people, end quote. Now that's fine, but it is a complete and total abandonment of the public platform. Donald Trump has run for president on across 12 years for three elections. It also contradicts what he and his own officials are saying is the stated public goal of the operation. 7 minutes ago on Capitol Hill, United States Secretary of State Marco Rubio said the objective of the mission was to destroy Iran's missile capabilities. Donald Trump himself said this morning that the country had been facing an urgent threat from Iran. Watch that moment.

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (5:12)

An Iranian regime armed with long range missiles and nuclear weapons would be an

Ben Rhodes (5:17)

intolerable threat to the Middle east, but also to the American people.

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (5:24)

Our country itself would be under threat. And it was very nearly under threat.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (5:31)

It was very nearly under threat. Multiple outlets including CNN and Politico report that Pentagon officials are saying something very to members of Congress. Politico reporting this quote. The administration briefed some Hill staffers Sunday on the operation, but officials did not present clear evidence the Iranians were preparing an imminent attack on US Troops. The conflict with Iran threatening to expand. As the Trump administration fails to articulate an end goal or a justification or to share the same script in terms of articulating why we struck. When we struck is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. New York Times diplomatic correspondent Michael Crowley joins us. Also joining us, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He served as the commanding general of the United States army in Europe. Former Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman is with us as well. She led the US Negotiating team that reached an agreement on the Iran nuclear deal in 2015. And here with me at the table for the hour, former deputy national security advisor to President Obama, now the co host of Pod Save the World, if Only it Could. Contributor Ben Droads is here. I want to start with the news that two more service members have lost their lives in this war against Iran. General Hertling, let me start with you. Let me read from Centcom's account on X. As of 4pm Eastern Time, March 2, six United States service members have been killed in action. U.S. forces recently recovered the remains of two previously unaccounted for service members from a facility that was struck during Iran's initial attacks in the region. Major combat operations continue. The identities of the fallen are being withheld until 24 hours after next of kin notification. So if we could just center ourselves on the very real consequences of matters of war and just center ourselves in the why it matters. Why it matters that today, today o', clock, Marco Rubio and Donald Trump offer two different rationales for why. As of 4pm Eastern on March 2, six service members have lost their lives. Your thoughts?

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (7:41)

It is for these kinds of reasons, Nicole, that the American people are informed, Congress is informed about what the administration is going to do when men and women, our nation's sons and daughters, are put into harm's way. People should understand why. And that's connected to the other thing that you were saying. And that is we're not sure the why yet. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? How long is it going to go? All the things that really consume both should consume both the Congress and the American people are not being stated. Six so far. Couple of airplanes shot down. One of the things that, that I'm concerned about. First of all, bless all of them who have sacrificed. That's what they know they may have to do when they raise their hand to join the service. But the other thing that's fascinating to me is the names have not been released yet of the first four, even the first three. There are several thousand people throughout the Middle several thousand military members throughout the Middle East. There are parents, there are spouses, there are children who are wondering if their son or daughter, their mother, their father are one of those six that have been killed. So there's a whole lot of people right now who are concerned that they may be affected. And as both the Secretary of defense said this morning, and also the President and Secretary Rubio just said the same thing, there may be more. So for that reason, I think the mission set should be adequately defined. You know, we go through these things called the war colleges, the military does, and there's a big joke at the end because they say you can sum up your entire year studying strategy in four key words. Number one, always take or four key sentences. Always take the high ground, both morally and physically. Words are important, so be precise. Logistics determines the art of the possible, and personalities matter. Each one of those things are playing a part. Those minor things are playing a part in the strategy right now that we don't know much about.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (9:59)

Michael Crowley, let me just make sure my understanding meshes with your tremendous reporting along with your colleagues today. In terms of the length, these are the public communications about the duration of the war with Iran, one to three days, four to five weeks or longer, as Trump has said it, I think four or five or six times in reporting that I read today. And then on the reasons Marco Rubio just said over and over again it was their missile capabilities. Trump has posted and talked about regime change and the ayatollah, and not just the ayatollah, but his second and third in command who were his runner up choices to run the country. So clearly, in Trump's mind, as our commander in chief, there wasn't just a target, but there was a conversation or some information he consumed about who would replace the Ayatollah Khomeini. Am I missing anything?

Michael Crowley (10:59)

Well, you know, possibly because Trump is where the administration is messaging in such an unusual way. You know, President Trump is fielding phone calls from reporters and having these brief snippets of conversations all over the place. He's released some videos, he made some comments today. And, you know, frankly, it's very difficult to keep track of everything he's saying. And compounding that is the fact that it's all over the map. So, you know, in reality, no, I don't think you're actually missing anything. You've got the key points here. But what I'm trying to convey is the messaging here is it's like a shotgun blast. It's pellets of information and fact and opinion flying all over the place. It's really hard to make sense of Nicole and you know, so is the timeline a couple of days? Is the timeline several weeks? One thing I don't think I heard you mention, which really struck me, was in one of the interviews the President gave today, I believe it was with the New York Post, he was a little bit, I think you could say, arguably flip about the possibility of putting boots on the ground in Iran. And he said something like, I don't rule it out. I don't get the yips like a lot of other presidents do on that subject, which is just a little bit odd way to be talking about this incredibly consequential possibility. And, you know, what it just amounts to is a real haze of confusion about what's really going on here and whether the president himself was really clear on why he was doing this. Was it just kind of his frame of mind in a given moment when he signed on? Did he have a clear game plan here? And, you know, maybe there is a clear game plan and the administration is changing its mind about how to explain it, but there has just not been a clear, succinct, consistent message from this president especially, and his entire administration about why the US Began this campaign, what its goals are, and what the American people should expect.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (13:12)

Let's just deal with what they've said we're doing there. They have indicated that there was an urgent threat from Iran. Here's Ted Cruz saying that there was no indication Iran was anywhere close to a nuclear weapon.

Congressman Jason Crow (13:33)

What I said is they were building nuclear weapons a year ago and our bombing took that out. They also had an ongoing desire to rebuild them. I don't have present day intelligence on what progress they had made towards rebuilding nuclear weapons since we bombed their facilities. I have no indication that they were anywhere close to getting nuclear weapons because our bombing was devastating.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (14:02)

So, Wendy, I guess I'm old enough to remember the public messaging around the first military campaign against Iran, and the description was total obliteration. And Donald Trump was so committed to that mission description. I think it was still a little bit underway, but he stuck with it to the degree that they fired people inside the Pentagon. That didn't toe the line on that messaging. So it was either his true belief as to what the results were or what he had been told or what he wanted people to believe. But, you know, when Ted. Ted Cruz is saying that doesn't add up to the language we've heard since Saturday, early Saturday morning, about the threat Iran poses. If you're Trump, you've got a real credibility problem when you've lost Ted Cruz

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (15:00)

without a Doubt, Nicole. You know, this has taken me back, I'm sure it does for Ben as well, to when we were working on the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, the Iran nuclear deal in 2014, 2015. The critics then, which were some of the same critics we have now, said we need to really take them down. And my response to them, President Obama, Secretary Kerry's response was, there's a choice here. We can try to negotiate this and really stop them from getting a nuclear weapon, or we can take a risk of an Arab Persian war. And that is what we are walking into now. This is in many ways a war of choice, a war of chaos and really echoes of the forever wars that the American people do not want. The president doesn't understand Iran. Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner did not understand Iran. You can't do a drive by a negotiation with such an odious, repressive and oppressive regime. You have to really stick in there and be tough. But I found two things very interesting about all of these different versions of why we're there. Rubio, Secretary Rubio did not talk about nuclear weapons because he understands what Ted Cruz said is true. He talked about someone who's going to attack Iran. I suspect that's Israel. And then they were going to come after us. And that's why we were doing it, which is a totally new reason. The other thing I find very interesting is the president saying that Venezuela's the template. If Venezuela is the template, that means that Donald Trump would be willing to leave a theological supreme leader in place if, in fact, we got what we wanted out of this. And how does that get freedom for the Iranian people?

Nicole Wallace (Host) (16:56)

Ambassador? I'm sorry I neglected to call you by your proper title. Ambassador. What, what is, what do the Iranians said?

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (17:04)

Fine.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (17:05)

What do the Iranian people want right now in terms of what you're hearing?

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (17:10)

I have no doubt that the vast majority of Iranian people, the majority of whom are under the age of 35, maybe even under the age of 30. We're talking about 92 million people. This is not a small country. Of course they want the future they see on the Internet, even though their Internet is hard. They have VPNs, they have Starlink, they have other ways of seeing. They see how other Islamic people, people who believe in Islam, get to live a life, get to have a future, get to have a family, a career, all of the freedoms that they wish for. But they know that this regime, and I think the follow on regime, even after all of the assassinations, will still be a theological Regime which will repress the Iranian people. And so it's not clear to me whether taking away their ballistic missile capability, their naval capability, if we are even able to do that, will in fact provide the freedom that the president says he wants for the Iranian people. He started this by saying we would have the back of the protesters thigh, thousands and thousands of whom were killed by the regime. It doesn't seem like that's where we're headed at all.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (18:29)

Ben Rose, again, we don't have a lot of visibility into what we don't know, but what we do know is totally incohesive and incomprehensible. We know that about five weeks ago, Donald Trump was talking about the things the ambassador's talking about. He was speaking directly to the protesters, telling them to take to the streets. He hasn't talked about them much except to say, I did what no one else would do. Go get your country. We know that at some level he was made aware or had some list presented to him of who would replace the ayatollah, to be able to say in all the press he's been doing that numbers two and three are dead. Also, Marco Rubio might be the most interesting person, the person that clearly sees what we all see, that this moment will end up that someone's going to have to run the country in three and four years, and his name won't be Donald Trump. And so he seems to be hewing to some of the facts, or at least speaking very carefully, has said nothing about regime change. Where do you start unpacking where we are today?

Ben Rhodes (19:33)

Well, let's just start with the pretext and then to the outcome. What they're saying is not true. It is not true that Iran had any kind of ballistic missile capacity to reach the United States or had an imminent risk of a nuclear warhead on that ballistic missile. This is just not true. Nobody can show any evidence or any intelligence is anywhere near that. So they've retreated back to. Well, they had ballistic missiles. We had to take them out. They've had ballistic missiles for many, many years. So they literally cannot identify any reason for the precise timing of opening the biggest Pandora's box in the Middle East. As Wendy said, a country of 92 million people. And that leads to the what next? Donald Trump goes out and he called upon those protesters. He said help would be on the way. And then thousands of them get massacred. Then he goes out and announces the beginning of this bombardment of Iran and says, rise up. Rise up is not a plan. Rise up. And then What? Because he may have decapitated parts of the leadership, but there are millions of people under arms in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the besieged militia that massacred those protesters and Iranian armed forces and police. And so what are we doing here? What the future of Iran is is very important, because if they're just going to decimate this regime, the outcome could be a civil conflict inside of Iran. The outcome could be mass violence in Iran, the brutal suppression of anybody who does rise up, the continued kind of indiscriminate firing of drones. Even if they run out of ballistic missiles, they have these more rudimentary ways of lashing out at energy infrastructure, lashing out at and making places like Dubai not safe for business, not safe for tourism. Their strategy is clearly to take the chaos and violence in Iran and say, okay, if you're at war with us, we'll be at war with everybody else. And I think one other thing that's important here, Nicole, is Trump keeps talking about, well, we could go four or five weeks, or I could stop in two, three days. Do you think the Iranians are going to stop? The Iranians get a vote on when this war ends and if their supreme leader has been killed and they feel like every one of their red lines has been crossed. The idea that the war ends when Donald Trump wants the news cycle in this country to stop paying attention flies in the face of what we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan, in Libya when I was in the Obama administration. Like, once you kill the leader of a country, you are opening a Pandora's box where you have no idea where it's going and they are not at all. If you're in a Gulf country or if you're a European ally of the United States. How reassured do you feel about these mixed messages and mixed rationales coming out of the administration,

Nicole Wallace (Host) (22:04)

especially starting this way? My sense is that from a little bit of experience, it doesn't get better. You don't gain public trust, you squander it. As things get more difficult and as

Ben Rhodes (22:15)

more lives are lost, the high watermark for this whole enterprise was killing the supreme Leader in a lot of ways. What is the next event that's going to happen that's going to allow Donald Trump to say, this is great, the war is over, know we've achieved our objectives. Nobody knows.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (22:32)

Yeah, As I said, the New York Times has some great reporting on how we got here. I'm going to read that and ask Michael Crowley to take us through that. Everyone stays with us. Also head for us. We'll track the briefing going on before Congress right now with skeptics on both sides of the aisle. Top leaders on the Hill are hearing from key members of the administration. If we learn anything about those briefings, we'll bring it to you. Plus, Democratic lawmaker former service member Jason Crow will be our guest. We'll talk to him about the cost of war and Trump's quote, as long as it takes attitude about how long we will be at war. And later in the broadcast, it could be more than just a crack to his maggot base. It could blow the whole thing wide open. We'll look at Trump's complete betrayal to his most core supporters on one of his prime messages over a decade as a politician. People who believed him the many, many, many times he promised that the United States of America, America return its focus to problems here at home and not get involved in any new wars. All the stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break.

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Nicole Wallace (Host) (24:37)

We're back with an embarrassment of riches in terms of expertise. Michael Jenner, Hertling, Ambassador Sherman and Ben. Ambassador Ben told me to call you Wendy, so I'm going to call you Wendy. I want to read you some of this great reporting from the Times and Michael Crowley. The CIA had produced a series of scenarios that might play out if Ayatollah Khamenei, the country's supreme leader, were killed in an offensive one envisioned a hard line cleric replacing Khomeini, perhaps even a leader more bent on acquiring a nuclear weapon. Another scenario predicted an uprising against the government, a possibility many intelligence officials thought was remote given the weakness of Iran's opposition. A number of senior Trump officials seized on a third scenario, that a faction of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, more pragmatic than the hard line clerics, might take over. Such a move would be a dramatic turn for an officer corps that had been staunchly anti American for four decades and deeply intertwined with Iran's clerical leadership. But the CIA analysis suggested that as long as the US did not interfere with economic activities of this faction, its influence in oil group of officers might be conciliatory toward the United States. Have you heard of this theory that a moderate group, a faction of the irgc, would be softer? And I mean, I've never heard that that was a scenario. And that seems, of all the ones, the Times reports them as seizing on that. That seems again from outside, like the most far fetched.

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (26:07)

I think it is far fetched. I wish it were so. I think wishing doesn't make something a fact or come true. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps really controls the economy of Iran and they haven't minded the sanctions because they own the black market, and that's very useful for them. Would they be pragmatic in terms of the economy where the US Is concerned? Perhaps. But it doesn't mean they would be any less repressive to their people because they would still want to control all the mechanisms of that economy. The President of the United States has been very transactional in all of his diplomacy. It would break my heart to find out that that is in fact what would happen here where there would be some economic trade off at the cost of the people of Iran. So I think it's very unlikely that there are those pragmatists. Look, I know Iranians who speak. I know the foreign minister quite well. He was my counterpart during negotiations. He speaks excellent English. He writes excellent English. We shared pictures of our grandchildren. We became grandparents for the first time. But I knew exactly who he was and what he believed and what he had to achieve. And in a Senate hearing, I said something I wish I had not that the Iranians took as a Slurpee. And I found myself and my family afraid because on the streets of Tehran there was death to Wendy Sherman in posters on the walls. So I have no illusions about Iran and what might happen here.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (27:42)

It's just an extraordinary reminder that depth of expertise that you brought doesn't appear to be on the playing field. General Hurtley, I'm going to ask you a question that may be over the line, but I just. It feels so central. Not sure anything else matters. We're talking about the Iranian people and how they may have their interests overlooked, either in a hasty decision or one that didn't think through. You know, I guess Saturday was day zero, day one, two, three, and everything after. What. What is the. What would you say if these were your men and women who had given their lives? It was a brilliant military operation, even if all of the goals aren't known. It seems that the military always does what's asked of them and then some. But what is your understanding of what the military will tell those families about why the military was deployed, where it was deployed, and what the mission is?

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (28:45)

That's a great question, Nicole. And you're right, it was a phenomenal military operation. General Kane pointed that out in a very detailed and professional brief this morning, unlike some others that we've heard. But I've experienced this fighting in Iraq and later in Afghanistan when parents or spouses of some soldiers could not understand why their soldiers had been killed, why they had sacrificed their life. They thought the war was wrong in many cases, and it's hard to explain. Explain to them that we as the military do the nation's bidding and that people who tell us to go different places and attempt at our very best to win. Sometimes it's the hardest load that a commander carries is to see his or her soldiers sacrifice in the ultimate way and then have to explain it to the loved ones. I've talked to you about the box that I have on my desk that I look at every day, and it's just painful sometimes. No, it's painful all the time. I had a discussion one time on my porch after I returned home with a father whose son had been killed in Iraq. And it was unfortunately a fratricide incident. And he was on my front porch for three hours telling me how it was wrong and we screwed up and we shouldn't have been there in the first place. And it was a terrible mission and so on, on and so on. It's tough from a commander's perspective to try and get past that. That's all I'll say. You know, when. When you're wearing the uniform, you do what you're told to legally do, and you defend what the elected administration ask you to do. And that's why it is so important, so critically important, that the elected officials get it right. And they don't go about asking soldiers to go in harm's way just because of a whim. And they have more than yips, as was stated earlier, when they think about sending people into harm's way on the ground.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (31:07)

I'm always grateful to have all of you, but especially today. Michael Crowley, thank you for the reporting that we centered our conversation around. Really, really important. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you for being here. Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you for starting us off and sticks around. General Hurtling's new book, if I Don't Return a Father's Wartime Journal will be out next week. More important now than perhaps ever before. We'll have a chance to talk to him about it as well after a break. For us, a former US Service member, now United States Congressman, who takes American lives being sent overseas or lost overseas very seriously will be our next guest. Congressman Jason Crow joins me and Ben at the table. Don't go anywhere

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Nicole Wallace (Host) (32:53)

As we've mentioned, a briefing is underway right now on Capitol Hill where top committee members are hearing from the Trump administration on Donald Trump's war with Iran. Donald Trump is saying publicly that it could last four or five weeks, that he could end it in one to three days or it could last, if necessary, quote, far longer than that, end quote. Today, Donald Trump is sending more U.S. forces into the region in case it is one of those longer term scenarios. He's not ruling out putting United States troops on the ground in Iran. Donald Trump is also warning that more United States service members will likely be killed. Already six have died within this hour with five others seriously wounded. Today, US Troops continue to conduct large scale combat operations, having already hit with Israel more than 2,000 targets, according to the New York Times. Acts of war, lawmakers say by Donald Trump, all taking place without congressional authorization. Joining us at the table, Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of California. He's a member of the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees. He also served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I think one of the first conversations I had with you was after your combat training sort of instinctively led you to protect your colleagues on January 6, I think you joined our breaking coverage as that was happening. And I remember thinking of, you know, well, that's, that's right, that, that if we had another war in our lifetimes, Trump wouldn't start it because he's run for president three times. And for all his incoherence on all manner of issues, the Epstein, the tariffs, the economy, no new wars was central, was exactly who he was. It's how he wins the Republican primary in 15 and 16. And I wonder if any part of you, even though you didn't support him, was, was shocked or felt betrayed on behalf of his coalition.

Congressman Jason Crow (34:52)

Nicole, What Donald Trump realized during his campaign and why he campaigned as an isolationist and he campaigned about ending endless wars is because he realized that the anger and the resentment of 20 plus years of conflict, the 3 trillion plus dollars spent, the 6,500 service members who died, the years of credibility and loss, opportunity, he realized that deep anger and resentment that I share, actually. And he said, I'm going to stop this cycle. And of course, now he has broken that very promise that he campaigned on. But that exists now.

Michael Crowley (35:27)

Right?

Congressman Jason Crow (35:28)

And I now am sitting here saying, what is working class America getting out of this? Right. It is true that Iran is a terrorist regime. It is true that the Ayatollah was a bad person and an evil person. That is all true. But the analysis begins with that. It doesn't end with that because what was also true was that Saddam Hussein was a bad person. What is also true is that the Taliban is bad. And we saw how that turned out. So the analysis has to now happen after the fact about whether this is the right thing to do. What we need to do to protect our service members and Congress needs to be put in the driver's seat.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (36:03)

What is it like right now for men and women of the military and their families to have the administration, the Commander in chief, offering multiple explanations both for the rationale and the timeline.

Congressman Jason Crow (36:17)

Well, I was just really struck by the video that Donald Trump put out on Friday night when he announced the start of this. He did it at Mar a Lago in front of the curtains. You know, we've seen this before, those black curtains. And he talked about the costs of war, he talked about the fact that service members were going to die. He said that that's just something that's going to have to happen. Then he talked tough and he banged his chest like elites in Washington often do. Then he literally walked behind the curtains to his private club and he hosted a million dollar a plate dinner and dance party that night. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know about the tone deafness and how the elites always get wealthy and get something out of this and the working class are left holding the bag, I don't know what does.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (36:58)

What is your theory of what we're doing there and how this came to pass?

Congressman Jason Crow (37:03)

I think for Donald Trump, this is about power and domination. I think he wants to assert his will. He wants to show that he's in charge. I don't think Donald Trump has ever had any ideology about Iran. I don't think he cares about the Iranian people. I don't think he cares about them yearning for freedom and democracy like I do, like so many other people do. I don't think he cares about peace in the Middle East. I think he wants to distract folks and he wants to assert power and show that he's in charge. And once again, the problem is it's working class kids like me and the people that I grew up with that have to go and do the tough thing, have to do the fighting and dying, and it's Americans that have to finance all of this.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (37:41)

To the Congressman's point, didn't he put Elon Musk in charge of talking to Iran at the beginning of his presidency?

Ben Rhodes (37:47)

Yeah, he did. Elon was going to solve that problem, too. I mean, which just shows, like, the fundamental and seriousness of this and the shifting objectives with respect to Iran. Remember, we heard about how we're going to make Iran great again at times. Then we're going to have a nuclear deal. But now he's bombed them twice in the middle of nuclear negotiations. I mean, just think about that. If the concern is American national security, he could have achieved those things diplomatically. But I agree, because he wanted to assert his power and use the US Military as an extension of his kind of personal interests, not as a national interest. If it was a national interest, you'd have a national debate and you go to Congress. But instead, his own ideology, I agree, is just the assertion of his own power. I can control things. I can make the military do what I want. The USS Gerald Ford, which is now involved in these operations, had to come all the way from Venezuela, where it was involved in an illegal series of actions there, blowing up boats and abducting the president of Venezuela. And I know, Jason, the question, too, is how much does it cost? Because that never comes up. But I mean, do you feel like in Congress you get any straight answers about the price tag on this?

Congressman Jason Crow (38:55)

No. I mean, the wall, the smoke and mirrors of this administration is unlike anything I've ever seen. And back home in Colorado, I represent Coloradans, and back home in Colorado, I have thousands of constituents that are losing their health care. People can't afford homes, people can't afford groceries. The cost of gasoline, by the way, just went up about 80 cents a dollar in most places in the last 48 hours. And that's not even counting the fact that we are going to spend tens of billions of dollars. I mean, Ben, you know, the cost of these things, the amount of munitions and the technology that's being used right now, tens of billions of dollars on this. And I think it's not going to put us in a better place at the end of it.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (39:35)

You know, what's interesting about the country and about the public, and you're talking about your constituents. The only thing more unpopular than covering up the Epstein files, which I think is about 26%, is the war in Iran, which is under 20%. So if he thought he was going to distract from something that was a loser for him, this is actually more unpopular. We're going to sneak in a quick break. We'll all be right back. On the other side, Congressman, what is the what are the tools available to Democrats and Republicans who oppose what has happened without congressional authorization?

Congressman Jason Crow (40:07)

Well, I sit on the Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee, so we are going to be asking for briefings, hearings, we're going to do document requests, figure out how much this cost. One of my biggest concerns right now is whether or not we can actually protect our 50,000 service members in the Middle East. You know, there are drones, missiles flying every which way now. I mean, this is spreading like wildfire throughout the Middle East. We have, you know, that many, about 45,000 to 50,000 service members over there. We have to protect those folks. And without a plan in place, and I don't believe they've thought through this well, that they're at great risk. So that is my number one concern. And then we're going to force a vote heading back to Washington tomorrow, we're probably going to force a vote, what's called a privileged resolution, which is one of the few ways in which the minority party can force a vote on an issue like This, I think Thursday we're going to take names. People need to stand up and let their constituents know where they stand on this issue.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (41:03)

You said something in the break that I think is fascinating. The lack of public support is a crisis for the men and women of the military. I mean, you take, you should take a whole country to war behind the men and women of the military who pay the ultimate price. But there is no public support for war with Iran. It's in the low 20s. It's the only thing as unpopular as

Ben Rhodes (41:24)

covering up the Epstein files, which Donald Trump surely knew. Right. I mean, this is a man who pays close attention to polls. He also pays close attention to his own MAGA base. And, you know, overwhelmingly the American people don't support this. And the core of that MAGA base doesn't support this, too. And so it's a pretty remarkable step for him to take. And look, I mean, I'll just say what concerns me is it is worrisome the degree to which he does not seem to care about public opinion on these military operations. He didn't seem to care that much about it in Venezuela. He didn't seem to care that much about Iran. It makes you wonder what else is coming. I mean, one reason for Congress to assert war powers is that I don't think this is the last war. We bombed seven countries just in the last two and a half months. We bombed Nigeria on Christmas. I don't even know if people know that we were blowing these boats out of the water for reasons that were never clear. We abducted the president of Venezuela. Now we killed the supreme leader in Iran. Where does this stop? Because with Trump, it kind of keeps moving around. What is Cuba next? What is the next place that we're going to use war? What's going to happen in this country where he's deeply politicized the military? He's given a speech to generals saying US Cities might be training grounds. Just the other day, they banished Anthropic, the AI company because they said they didn't want the Pentagon to use their technology for mass surveillance of Americans. So this is all very worrisome.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (42:50)

To be continued. Thank you both for being here today with us. It's great to have you at the table. It's great to have you here at the table, too. One more break. We'll be right back. They don't care about the kids. They don't care about who's going in.

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (43:07)

Trump doesn't care.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (43:08)

He's not caring about the lives that

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (43:10)

he's putting in there.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (43:10)

And risking their lives. It's all about the power.

Congressman Jason Crow (43:15)

Do you feel safer now than you

Lieutenant General Mark Hertling (43:17)

did a week ago?

Nicole Wallace (Host) (43:18)

No, I don't.

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (43:21)

I think that we're the laughingstock of the rest of the world. I think people are not vacationing here anymore because they don't want to be associated with us. I think our role has been damaged by his actions and his tariffs and his mockery of other people overseas. I mean, his sheer childishness of dealing with foreign affairs. It's just diminished us.

Nicole Wallace (Host) (43:48)

Those are real life voters in Charlotte, North Carolina, speaking to one of our journalists earlier today. New polling shows what they're articulating there. A majority of Americans oppose Donald Trump strikes in Iran, including some of his supporters who voted him into office in part because he promised no new wars. We'll talk about that after a short break. When the next hour. Then White House starts. Don't go anywhere.

Ambassador Wendy Sherman (44:13)

Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom.

Ad Council/Adopt US Kids Representative (44:16)

Hold my hand. You hold my hand. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care@adoptuskids.org you can't imagine the reward brought to you by Adopt Us Kids, the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.