“The latest victim of Donald Trump”

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: “The latest victim of Donald Trump”
Host: Nicolle Wallace (MSNBC)
Date: September 5, 2025

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Overview

In this high-stakes episode, Nicolle Wallace and her panel dissect the latest economic downturn, tracing the cause to President Donald Trump’s controversial and autocratic policies. The episode weaves sharp economic analysis with discussion on the erosion of institutional norms, highlighting both the impact on everyday Americans and the broader danger to U.S. democracy. Senator Elissa Slotkin joins for an in-depth conversation about the existential threat facing the American middle class and the need for affirmative political leadership. The show also breaks exclusive news about the next steps in the Jeffrey Epstein case and scrutinizes the fallout from Trump’s immigration agenda.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The U.S. Economy – “The Latest Victim”

[01:09 – 08:24]

• Stark Jobs Numbers: Only 22,000 jobs added in August, unemployment ticks up to 4.3%, and previous months revised downward, signaling a real slowdown.
• Market Reaction: The Dow closed more than 200 points down.
• Policy-Induced Slowdown: Experts attribute the downturn to Trump’s tariffs, mass deportations, and direct interference with federal agencies like the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS).
• Manipulation and Attacks on Data: Trump administration spins negative numbers and questions credibility of BLS, firing officials who report bad data.

Quote:
“These are the results. This is Donald Trump's economy. Donald Trump, a president who campaigned on a promise to the American people. This is how the story went during the campaign. The economy was broken and he alone could fix it. So naturally, the Trump administration is on a spin cycle today.”
Nicolle Wallace, [01:09]

Economic Expert Reactions:

• Ron Insana: No methodological change at BLS; data processes remain intact. The current downturn is uncommon in that it’s the direct result of deliberate government policies, especially tariffs and immigration crackdowns.
• Gene Sperling: The Trump administration’s choices reversed what was expected by all economic observers—a “beautiful soft landing.” Instead, erratic policy shifted inflation and job growth in the wrong directions.

Quote:
“This is a policy induced slowdown, certainly in the labor markets and maybe later in the broader economy.”
Ron Insana, [06:21]

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2. America’s Slide Toward Autocracy and Its Economic Consequences

[12:15 – 19:52]

• Loss of checks and balances, attacks on the independence of the Federal Reserve, and use of law enforcement as a political tool are destabilizing U.S. economic prospects.
• Global investors and business leaders increasingly view the U.S. as a riskier place to invest, demanding higher returns and threatening the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency.
• Historic comparisons drawn to Turkey, Argentina, and even China, clarifying that autocracy and economic health rarely coexist.

Quote:
“The whole lesson and what the 2024 Nobel Prize was awarded for in economics was the view that the rule of law, the integrity of your economic institutions, was not just good for those of us who believe in democracy, but it was a differentiator between countries like the United States… and countries like Argentina, which saw their potential and prosperity ruined by this type of policy.”
Gene Sperling, [14:30]

• Andrew Weissmann: The administration’s vilification of immigrants and erratic policies are “brain draining” the nation, repelling top scientists and innovators.

Quote:
“If you engage in these policies, this is not speculation, you are going to have that sort of brain drain that happened in Germany in the 30s.”
Andrew Weissmann, [17:38]

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3. The Jeffrey Epstein Case – A Step Towards Transparency

[22:29 – 31:23]

• Congress to View Epstein Documents: The House Oversight Committee will receive unredacted access to Epstein estate records, including a controversial Trump birthday card, flight logs, and financial records. Survivor advocates have pushed for this transparency for years.
• Scope of Discovery: Even as Congress can review documents in person, the wider public will remain in the dark. Only a “grain of sand on a beach” of evidence will surface due to DOJ withholding most documents.
• Political Backdrop: Trump's litigation strategies are seen as largely performative and unlikely to shield him from scrutiny.

Quote:
“You’re going to have people like Ghislaine Maxwell saying you’re all lying... the American public won’t see it. So they can’t judge for themselves. This is really the proverbial grain of sand on a beach.”
Andrew Weissmann, [27:30]

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4. Senator Elissa Slotkin: Economic Anxiety and Democratic Messaging

[31:47 – 46:18]

• Voter Discontent in Michigan: Senator Slotkin shares firsthand accounts from constituents suffering under rising costs and a shrinking middle class, fueling desperation and making the electorate ripe for authoritarian appeals.
• National Security and Economic Security Meld: Slotkin highlights how issues like AI, housing, and supply chains are now as crucial to national security as traditional defense.
• Democratic Party Debate: Slotkin calls for Democrats to move from defense to offense, presenting an affirmative vision that directly addresses middle-class anxieties and offers real policy solutions.

Quote:
“I truly believe it’s because people feel desperate and they feel like they can’t live the American dream. So let’s start there. That’s the existential threat.”
Senator Elissa Slotkin, [35:57]

On Trump’s Pull with Working Class Voters:
Slotkin reminds that many still “hold out hope” for Trump despite declining conditions, but reality—like surging healthcare premiums—will catch up.

Quote:
“They know their own pocketbooks… That will catch up with him. But it’s not enough… Democrats… need some thought leadership on how to play offense and not just defense, because you can’t just point at him, say he’s bad and think that that’s a political campaign.”
Senator Elissa Slotkin, [44:20]

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5. Immigration Raid Fallout

[46:22 – end]

• Record Immigration Raid: Federal agents detain 475 people at a Hyundai facility in Georgia, including U.S. citizens and legal residents, exemplifying the real-life chaos arising from Trump’s mass deportation drive.
• International Backlash: South Korea lodges formal complaints, while local communities reel from indiscriminate detention and disruption.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Nicolle Wallace [01:09]: “Our very economy is the latest victim of Donald Trump’s highly destructive presidency.”
• Ron Insana [06:21]: “This is a policy induced slowdown…”
• Gene Sperling [14:30]: “The rule of law, the integrity of your economic institutions… was a differentiator between countries like the United States… and Argentina.”
• Andrew Weissmann [17:38]: “You are going to have that sort of brain drain that happened in Germany in the 30s.”
• Senator Elissa Slotkin [35:57]: “If you want to understand this moment in our country’s history, this authoritarian moment… it’s because people feel desperate and they feel like they can’t live the American dream.”
• On Democratic Strategy [44:20]: “You can’t just point at him, say he’s bad and think that that’s a political campaign.”

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Time-stamped Segment Guide

• 00:00 – 01:09: Adverts and show open (skipped)
• 01:09 – 08:24: Economic news, expert analysis on jobs/data, and economic policy discussion
• 12:15 – 19:52: Global economic perspectives, rule of law, autocracy’s costs, brain drain, and Fed independence
• 22:29 – 31:23: Epstein investigation, congressional oversight, transparency vs. secrecy
• 31:47 – 46:18: Senator Slotkin on Michigan voter anxiety, existential economic threats, Democratic messaging, and building an affirmative offensive strategy
• 46:22 – end: Immigration raid in Georgia, national/international fallout

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Conclusion

This episode lays out a comprehensive indictment of Trump’s economic policies and governing style, tying them to rising economic pain, institutional breakdown, and the peril of democratic backsliding. Through expert voices and on-the-ground stories, it frames the pitch for renewed political vision and resilience—underscoring that America’s economic and democratic future is at a crossroads.

Worth noting:
Throughout, the tone is urgent, clear-eyed, and unapologetically critical, embodied in recurring reminders that the stakes for American democracy and ordinary people have rarely been higher.

Transcript

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[Nicole Wallace]

Hi there everyone. It's four o' clock in New York this afternoon. Our very economy is the latest victim of Donald Trump's highly destructive presidency because the new jobs numbers are out and they're not pretty. First, the top line numbers for you. Only 22,000 jobs added in the month of August. The unemployment rate rose slightly to 4.3%. And then there's this reporting in the New York Times. Quote, the economy has been cooling since its red hot pandemic peak in the face of high interest rates and has been recently buffeted by a barrage of tariffs and other disruptive economic policies from the Trump administration. With revisions, the labor market now appears to have lost 13,000 jobs in June, the first negative number Since December of 2020 in total numbers for the previous two months were revised down by 21,000 jobs at the closing bell on Wall street mere moments ago, the Dow was down more than 200 points. These are the results. This is Donald Trump's economy. Donald Trump, a president who campaigned on a promise to the American people. This is how the story went during the campaign. The economy was broken and he alone could fix it. So naturally, the Trump administration is on a spin cycle today.

[Andrew Weissmann]

So we're very, very excited about where things are going. It's a little bit of a disappointing job number, but I pretty much expect it's going to revise up. It's just not an acceptable thing that the job servers are so unreliable that they're being revised all the heck over the place. A completely different story if we have A million fewer jobs, as happened the last time that there was a revision. And so that's one reason why President Trump thinks we need a new set of eyes over there at BLS to fix this problem.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hours before the American people even knew anything about these other brutal jobs numbers, Trump was playing one of his favorite games, explaining which numbers were real and which ones were fake. Watch.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Can you commit to saying the data will be credible?

[Progressive Insurance Spokesperson]

I don't know. They come out tomorrow. But the real numbers that I'm talking about are going to be whatever it is, but will be in a year from now when these monstrous, huge, beautiful places, they're palaces of genius. And when they start opening up, you're seeing, I think you'll see job numbers that are going to be absolutely incredible. Right now, it's a lot of construction numbers, but you're going to see job numbers like our country has never seen before.

[Nicole Wallace]

It's not clear what he's talking about, but the important piece of news there seems to be that there won't be any, quote, real numbers for at least a year. Not for nothing, it is worth nodding to the bravery these days associated with compiling and publicly releasing real numbers that are so bad, such poor economic data. Remember, the last person who did that is now the former commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. She was fired for simply doing her job and telling the truth. Which brings us back to where we started, the absolutely toxic and acidic nature of the Trump presidency, which is fueled on retribution and revenge and spin and lies and what it means not just for the soul of our nation, but for the stability and strength and very basic ability to function as an economy as well. It's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. CNBC contributor, publisher of the Message of the Markets on Substack, Ron Insana is here with us. Also joining us, former director of the National Economic Council for Presidents, for Presidents Obama and for President Clinton. Gene Sperling joins us with me at the table for the hour, former top official at the Department of Justice, MSNBC legal analyst Andrew Weissman's here. Ron and Sana, let me first ask you if anything changed in the process of compiling jobs numbers between Donald Trump's firing of the last person with this job and today, that would, that would.

[Ron Insana]

Require a massive overhaul of the methodologies that are used, the number of people involved, not, not just who's running the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And yet the new head has not really been fully implemented yet. So, no, nothing's changed in the way in which the Data are collected in one week during a given month, this being the month of August. And then we as a unit, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, talks to over 100,000 businesses and several hundred thousand households, collects the data as best it can, and determines both the number of jobs created or lost and the unemployment rate. So everything was the same last month as it was in prior months and quite frankly going back years and decades.

[Nicole Wallace]

So the numbers are real. We can talk about them as a real thing. Take me inside your reaction and the reaction among the business community.

[Ron Insana]

Well, initially the stock market rallied on the hopes this will cement an interest rate cut from the Federal Reserve. And then the stock market looked around and said, well, wait, if they're cutting interest rates, this also could mean that we're on the cusp of a recession or certainly of a labor market recession. That's not a good thing. So stocks, as you pointed out at the top of the show, sold off. In my view, and I'm trying to view this almost entirely through an economic prism, this is a policy induced slowdown, certainly in the labor markets and maybe later in the broader economy. When you have the tariffs that have been put in, when you have immigration and mass deportations, when you have the doge government cuts reducing government employment, trade services, construction, and also a host of other industries that have been reliant on areas that are now under attack, this is a policy induced slowdown and doesn't appear that we're going to see much of a reversal in that regard anytime soon.

[Nicole Wallace]

So I appreciate the economic prism and that's why the three of you are here. But policies are made by policy makers and the policymaker who made those three policies, doge tariffs and the others is Donald Trump. And I think the contrast you're making is that during COVID the last slowdown that most Americans live through, at least working Americans, that was a global pandemic, a wild and unpredictable and novel virus. Have you ever seen a man made slowdown of this kind?

[Ron Insana]

I've seen man made financial crises that turned into recessions like the great financial crisis in 2008, where lax regulation, the overuse of borrowed money in the financial system that almost destroyed our banking System back in 2008. And I've seen financial market panics that were at least induced by greed and deregulation create unfavorable economic environments. This is a little bit different. This in a sense directly aimed at the economy, not so much at financial markets where the adverse impact is falling on specific industries, specific groups of people. And it's A direct result, at least in my mind, of the policies that have been enacted to date.

[Nicole Wallace]

Gene Sperling, the irony is, I guess it's an irony and a tragedy. So many Americans have pinned their economic dreams and ambitions on Donald Trump and it was always a lie. The gold toilet was for him, but not for you. The private plane wasn't even really real because he just took one for free from a foreign country. And the idea that, quote, the grocery will get cheaper, everything will get cheaper was a lie. Everything has gone up. Talk about the real lived economic insecurity for the vast majority of Americans.

[Progressive Insurance Spokesperson]

Sure. I think what's disappointing a lot of Americans, even some who voted for the president, is that he has been much more focused on gaining unchecked power for himself than he has been on checking the price increases that they're feeling and are hurting on their cost of living. And Ron, you know, he's very diplomatic. I think he was saying policy induced problems or something. Nicole, I think I first said on your show self inflicted wound. And you know, sometimes the Trump administration likes to say, oh, let's go back to where Biden was. And we should welcome that discussion because you have to look at the direction of the economy when he took office. This is not a Democratic view. It's not a Gene Sperling view. It was the view of the entire expert market that we were headed for what was a soft landing. And what that meant was that places like Goldman Sachs, the IMF were seeing core inflation was going to come down to around 2%, 1.9, which was going to allow the Fed to cut and growth was going to stay close to 2 1/2 percent. It was the beautiful soft landing. Everything that's happening right now is sending those trends in the opposite direction. And solely due to policies, erratic tariff policies have both slowed growth, which we're now seeing in the job market. I mean, this is now just the last four months, right? The last four months. He owns 29,000 jobs per month. You had the first loss, first loss of jobs now in June. They actually were negative, if you don't count kind of health care and other jobs like that. We've actually lost 142,000 jobs in areas like construction and manufacturing that he's talking about. So the impact for Americans was we were about to hit a steady, stable period. And instead they're now seeing their growth in jobs being weakened. And that's just the clear factual case. From the growth numbers, which are now under 2%, and the jobs numbers, which are really pathetically low at this point. And then at the same time, because of the tariffs, because of, I think, this overblown mass deportation immigration strategy, at the same time, inflation is going up. So for average people, what that means is the economy is slower, my jobs, not prospects are not as good as they were. And yet my prices of coffee, beef, a baby stroller, all of those things are going up and designed to go up higher. And then ultimately for the Federal Reserve, it puts them in this impossible situation. They'll probably cut 25 basis points out of worry over the economy, but they're not going to do 50 or 75 because they see those prices continuing to go up, all due to the policies put in place intentionally by President Trump and his team.

[Nicole Wallace]

Gene, explain to me with a global perspective, if there's any example of a nation's move toward autocratic practices when it comes to the rule of law, when it comes to foreign relations, when it comes to domestic secret police roaming the streets en masse, when it comes to military men and women on the streets, is there an example on the planet where that has led to economic prosperity for the citizens?

[Progressive Insurance Spokesperson]

You know, I think when you look at the most recent examples, particularly those that regard getting rid of the independence of the Federal Reserve, you're not going to get many people in Turkey or Argentina who then live through hyperinflation who are going to say that was, that was good for them. And perhaps there is a country, a big one, China, where there's been some combination of higher growth and decreased personal liberties and more autocracy, but we're the United States of America. That's not a trade off we want to make. But we're not even making that trade off now. Because that sense of kind of erratic presidential policy done by whim is hurting the economy. It is creating uncertainty for small businesses, big businesses, businesses that are thinking about expanding here. And if he continues to go through on this assault, which is not assault on Lisa Cook, it's an unfair assault on her, but anybody but assault on the independence of the Fed and the rule of law. It really is simple economics. If I'm going to buy a bond in the US and I'm essentially going to lend the United States 10 money for 10 years or take a mortgage for 30 years, you know, people who lend that money are going to say, wow, they don't have a Federal Reserve that worries about inflation, I better ask for a higher return. That means higher interest rates. And it means that people who are thinking about locating here have to say, wow, if I do Something wrong? Will the president attack the family of my CEO? Will we tell them he has to lower prices? Will he try to take over a company? No. I think the whole lesson and what the 2024 Nobel Prize was awarded for in economics was the view that the rule of law, the integrity of your economic institutions, was not just good for those of us who believe in democracy, but it was a differentiator between countries like the United States, who stayed strong and had strong growth and investment, and countries like Argentina, which saw their potential and prosperity ruined by this type of policy that might have even been short of pure autocracy, but showed a total disregard for the rule of law and the integrity of their economic institutions.

[Nicole Wallace]

Andrew Weissman, you were here enough days during the election to witness my exasperation that business leaders didn't enter the arena of the democracy versus autocracy conversation. The vast majority of them are not just on the sidelines, but at least in the tech industry. They were all at the gilded Oval Office, I think, today. What is it about the rule of law that you would explain to a business leader or CEO that thinks Trump can be bought off, that they're missing?

[Andrew Weissmann]

So I'm going to add to what these eminent economists have said in something that is perhaps less sort of visible and notable, and that I think people in the tech industry innately understand and are not sufficiently acting on, although now you sort of see signs of it, which is when you engage in the vilification of immigrants and you have erratic policies about who gets arrested and militarizing our cities, you will see the flight of people who are here who do not want to be here. And you will see people who we used to count on to be the drivers, whether it's in science, whether it's in tech, who come here because of the secure and the innovation and the money that goes into it. If you asked a scientist in France, do you want to come here now? Or a tech leader in India, do you want to come here now? They're going to be saying, let me bring out the globe, because I think there's some other choices. The policies now are.

[Nicole Wallace]

Which means the whole family doesn't come right. They don't go to our universities, they don't enhance our schools.

[Andrew Weissmann]

All of those drivers. When you think about my dad, who was a scientist, used to say this, which is the 20th century, was the century of sort of American modern medicine. You think that Donald Trump would have taken pride in the way in which we weren't the only people, but the way in which American science was able to tackle Covid as fast as it was. I think that surprised everyone. If you engage in these policies, this is not speculation, you are going to have that sort of brain drain that happened in Germany in the 30s. You can go back further than that where that is what happens when you set up a system where you are not going to be attracting the people that you need. The tech industry understands that those are people they want. But if you sit there and say immigrants are all bad and they need to leave and you have these really erotic policies, it's a reason. You see tourism is down and you see just people not wanting to come here. We're in New York. There's Lady Liberty, which is give me your tired, you're poor, your huddled masses. Well, that also included scientists, tech leaders, people who really drive our economy. So I think that would be my message, which is not. Are you seeing cold hard numbers, to use Gene's phrase. But you're not attracting the people who are going to help sort of cement and grow the economy.

[Nicole Wallace]

Right. Win the future. Yeah. I mean, just quickly, if the tariffs are rendered illegal. I mean, the irony I guess would be that would probably help Trump politically. Those have about a 32% approval rating among all Americans. Do you think they will be So.

[Andrew Weissmann]

I think there's a substantial argument that was made in the dissent because remember, the decision that found them illegal was not uniform. There was a substantial, very, I think, well reasoned, you could disagree with it. But there's a substantial argument that when this goes to the Supreme Court, I am confident it will, that they will say that the president does have the power to engage in these terrorists. And the irony of that is that politically that might be quite bad.

[Nicole Wallace]

Destroying politically. Gene Sperling, Ron and Sana, thank you for making sense of this for us. We are grateful to both of you for starting us off. Andrew sticks around. When we come back, the push for accountability and answers in the Jeffrey Epstein case hopefully taking an important step forward. Next week, the Jeffrey Epstein estate will allow the House Oversight Committee to view unredacted documents in person, something the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell's abuse have been pushing for for a long time. Tell you about that. Plus, Senator Eliza Stocken is issued a warning months ago about the dangers of the Trump 2.0 presidency. Now the numbers are starting to show exactly what she warned about how Democrats should respond to the cratering poll numbers of one Donald J. Trump. And later in the broadcast, Donald Trump's military expansion as a tool for carrying out his own political and at times personal agenda and the damage that that is doing to America's standing at home and around the world. We'll have all those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

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[Lisa Rubin]

Rose with quilted Northern, to be specific.

[Nicole Wallace]

So cushy and so plushy. Just give it a try.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Feeling is believing.

[Lisa Rubin]

Quilted with three cushy layers for your comfort.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

The quilted comfort of quilted Northern.

[Nicole Wallace]

We know what's comfy and now you do, too.

[Lisa Rubin]

Keep it quilted with quilted Northern.

[Ron Insana]

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[Andrew Weissmann]

I need a coffee.

[Ron Insana]

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[Commercial Announcer]

Specialoffer terms apply as President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.

[Nicole Wallace]

The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.

[Commercial Announcer]

Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at msnbc.com project47.

[Nicole Wallace]

Do you remember the story the Wall Street Journal broke about a birthday card Donald Trump reportedly wrote and slash illustrated for Jeffrey Epstein as a card so apparently bawdy and revealing, captured the nature of Donald Trump's friendship with a notorious sex offender that when the Wall Street Journal first reported on it, this book put together by Ghislaine Maxwell for Epstein, Donald Trump was so mad he sued the Wall Street Journal for defamation. Well, NBC is reporting today that the House Oversight Committee is expected to to get his hands on it on the original version of that book. That book that made Trump so mad he sued his friend Rupert Murdoch. They're going to see it next week. They're going to get to hold it and see what's inside. It will be among the unredacted versions of documents handed over to the Oversight Committee by the Epstein estate. It will also include some flight logs, phone logs and records of financial transactions. That's according to a source familiar with the matter. That source also telling Msnbc that any redactions will be made solely to protect the identities of known and potential victims, not anyone else, like friends and associates of Jeffrey Epstein. The documents from Epstein's estate are being handed over in response to a subpoena sent by the House Oversight Committee, which is also waiting on more Epstein files from the Department of Justice. Joining us at the table to discuss, MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin. Andrew, still with us, explain the significance of this.

[Lisa Rubin]

It's incredibly significant, Nicole, because the documents, as they will be produced to the committee, an electronic copy, they will have redactions on it. At the same time, it's our understanding that the estate is going to allow the oversight committee staff or members, whoever decides to come to New York to view in person unredacted copies of the documents. Now, we understand that that will be in a secure facility. We understand that perhaps people will be asked to check their phones at the door, but they will see the whole totality of certain documents that are going to be produced early next week. They'll have the opportunity to review them in unredacted form. They won't be able to take it away with them, but essentially they'll be allowed to go into a room and see what it looks like with all of the names and with other identifying details perhaps as well. That's astonishing because so far we don't have any insight into, for example, how many people might be mentioned in that birthday book. Of course, they'll also see if it's there, an original version of the letter that Donald Trump allegedly sent to Jeffrey Epp Epstein. And these I want to underscore for you, these are bound books. They were bound by a bookmaker here in New York City in 2003. It's not as if somebody just inserted a page, right? These have been bound compilations that were inherited essentially by the executors of the estate. And members and staff will get to see for themselves what that looked like in its original form. It's not an accident, by the way, that Donald Trump repeatedly refers to the Epstein matter as a hoax. He started doing that, not coincidentally, the day after he was confronted by the Wall Street Journal with the fact that the birthday book existed and that a letter from him allegedly was within it and described to him.

[Nicole Wallace]

What does that do to his defamation case against Rupert Murdoch when all the Republicans and Democrats will sit there holding the book.

[Andrew Weissmann]

This reminds me of when Donald Trump years ago said, I want to sue the New York Times, and general counsel of the New York Times issued this letter that said, great, have at it. Because you know what comes with a civil suit discovery. Donald Trump doesn't do particularly well in depositions. So a lot of this is performative. The one thing I would add to what Lisa said is it's worth remembering that who will not see those documents? The American public will not see it. And it is cherry picked in the sense that yes, it's a bound volume, but the government has said that there is 300, over 300 gigabytes.

[Nicole Wallace]

What does that mean? I keep reading that and I keep saying it, but I don't really know what that means. If 300 gigabytes were a pile, how high would the pile be?

[Andrew Weissmann]

So this is like. Since I don't do math and I don't do. Typically don't do math in public, I have been quoted saying that's a lot.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, okay, me too.

[Andrew Weissmann]

But here's the thing. A gigabyte of.

[Nicole Wallace]

But is it like a room full of documents?

[Andrew Weissmann]

We're in this huge room. Imagine this entire room filled with boxes and boxes and boxes and boxes.

[Nicole Wallace]

And the source is Kash Patel, who said on Joe Rogan's podcast that that's how much.

[Andrew Weissmann]

And the government has, in their sort of two page unsigned memo saying why we're not going to do more, they confirmed that, that it's over 300 gigabytes. So it's really worth noting that this is still drip, drip, drip. And yes, it is better than nothing. And yes, it is supposedly bound, so we know that it will be there or not. But a, the American public still is not seeing it. So if people come out and say, this is what I saw, you're going to have people like Ghislaine Maxwell saying you're all lying. That's already happened where she's saying every single victim has lied about her and about Jeffrey Epstein. So the American public won't see it. So they can't judge for themselves. And without getting into the math, this is the tiniest little sliver of this. This is really the proverbial grain of sand on a beach.

[Lisa Rubin]

I was going to say the birthday book is not the only document that we understand will be unredacted for the committee to view. It's certainly not the only document that will be produced next week by the estate. One big difference between the Department of Justice and the estate. And there are two big differences. On one hand, the Department of Justice probably has much more in its possession than the estate does, in no small part because through a search warrant they were able to take scores of electronic evidence hard drives, thumb drives and the like that were never returned to the estate. But on the other hand, the estate has said repeatedly, including to me, that it will comply with all lawful process. Does that mean every single document in its possession that's been called for will be produced Monday? Certainly not. They're going to have a rolling production as they try to be responsive to it. But will that be more responsive than the Department of Justice, which has released 33,000 pages? That's about 10 boxes or banker's boxes worth of material, 97% of which, according to Democratic staff and members we've already seen. Yes, it will be certainly more fulsome than what we've seen from the department and what I expect we'll see in the future from the department. The president today saying he believes that the Department of Justice has made a good faith effort to comply. That's laughable. Nicole?

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, real quick. Christy Greenberg reminded me that Jeffrey Berman writes in his book about and I remembered, I went back and read it last night about how he kept the search of Jeffrey Epstein's mansion secret from main Justice. Why hasn't Jeffrey Berman been subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee?

[Andrew Weissmann]

So, I mean, you could say that about Jeffrey Berman and every single one of the career, career prosecutors and agents. If you want to know what's in those documents, obviously, you know, number one, release the documents. But two, Jeffrey Berman, what was he afraid of?

[Nicole Wallace]

Like he's from the last Trump presidency, felt like he had to keep it secret from Washington, which is the White House and Maine doj. Why?

[Andrew Weissmann]

So a lot of times, if it's something, having been a prosecutor in the field, if you don't have to, if you're not required to tell main justice, the general rule is like, why would I do that? I'm not required to. And main justice doesn't need to and actually usually doesn't want to see everything. If you've got responsible people in the field, there are certain things, national security matters, very high profile matters that you would and here you suspect. And Jeffrey Berman has written about his concern about interference. And that would be the main other reason, because this is a kind of high profile matter. There was a lot of issues with the deal in Florida that you would want to make sure that main justice understood what was happening. But if you're concerned that main justice is not going to be acting based on the facts and the law and it's going to be acting in a political way, that is one reason that you keep it as close hold as you can.

[Nicole Wallace]

Unbelievable. Unbelievable that a Republican head of SDNY kept it secret from main justice at the time. That there was the guy that did this sweetheart deal in the cabinet.

[Andrew Weissmann]

Right?

[Nicole Wallace]

Same. Andrew Roseman and Lisa Rubin, thank you so much for spending time with us today. When we come back, our next guest says protecting Americans and safeguarding our national security, start with strengthening our economy. Donald Trump isn't going to make that happen. Senator Alissa Slotkin will be our guest right here at the table. Don't go anywhere.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

I won the tightest Senate race in the country. I won by 19,000 votes out of 5.6 million voters. It was tight, okay? It was a cost of living election, period. And voters voted for whoever they thought was going to put more money in their pockets. He successfully won that campaign because he said he was going to lower costs. And I challenge, I challenge anyone to tell me what part of your budget has gone down and not gone, in some cases up precipitously.

[Nicole Wallace]

That was Senator Elissa Slotkin of Michigan describing the bait and switch that voters have endured when it comes to Donald Trump's campaign season. Economic promises. And as Trump's economic agenda starts to actually impact people's lives, their budgets, the cost of everything. The backlash to Donald Trump is showing up bigly in his polling. On Donald Trump's handling of jobs in the economy, 53% of all Americans disapprove, compared to 38% who like what they're seeing. When it comes to his handling of inflation and prices, 62% of all Americans disapprove. Just 32% approve. With the passage of Donald Trump's disastrous domestic spending bill, millions of Americans are set to lose access to health care and food assistance. It all leads to this. An overall approve rating of just 41% less than nine months into his presidency, with 55% of Americans disapproving. Joining us on set, Senator Eliza Slotkin of Michigan. Thank you for being here.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Thanks for having me.

[Nicole Wallace]

I love the speech today. When you described your prep for this for this group, you went and talked to your constituents, explain.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Yeah, well, I was giving a foreign policy speech, which is my background. Right. I'm a former CIA officer and Pentagon official. But I did something that I would have never thought of doing, frankly, 15 years ago, which is asking regular Michiganders what they expect out of their government when it comes to keeping them safe and what they feel like are the biggest threats to their own security. And we had a bunch of town halls in Michigan on this and in different parts of the state. And people will tell you where they think the government is doing well and where it's not doing well. It was clear from the beginning we couldn't talk for five minutes without people talking about the economic security, the fact that they don't feel confident in their ability to succeed, their kids ability to succeed. They're stressed about it, the tariffs, the economy, jobs. They were deeply concerned about technology in our lives. Right? Just, they don't know how to think about social media for their kids. They don't know how to think about AI, artificial intelligence. They don't know how to think about these cyber attacks that are. Everyone had a personal story about being ransomed or being hacked. So it really prompted me to think differently about national security. And it's not just, you know, planes and tanks and war over there. It's really about economic issues here, tech issues here, and how American citizens are now on the front lines because of all these things happening in our phones and in our lives.

[Nicole Wallace]

I think when people talk about your place in our politics and your place in the Democratic Party, they focus on the message. And I know from being in communications that the message is like the tail, right? It comes from the substance. And it sounds like what you're articulating is that our politics have always put the national security people, conversations, policy making and messengers over here, and the economic people, policies, messages and communications over here. And what people experience is that they're all one thing. You feel unsafe if your job is at risk. You feel unsafe if. If every time you go to buy something that you're thinking about, but it's a big purchase, it's more expensive on Amazon. You feel unsafe if your kid comes home and says, is this real? And it's a video and you actually don't know if it's AI or if it's real that makes people feel unsafe. What are the answers to those problems?

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Yeah, well, certainly, you know, there is. To me, the existential issue facing the country is that we have a shrinking middle class. Right. I think people don't understand that when you cannot provide for your kids what was provided to you, you feel shame, you feel anger, and you feel like you want to blame someone and you blame someone who doesn't look like you or talk like you or pray like you. And if you want to understand this moment in our country's history, this authoritarian moment, this moment where we're turned inward on each other, I truly believe it's because people feel desperate and they feel like they can't live the American dream. So let's start there. That's the existential threat. It's not something coming from abroad. It's not a missile, it's not a weapon. It's the shrinking middle class and a democracy. Number two, to me, we gotta actually address some of the major economic issues that people are complaining about. Housing. What is more American than buying your first house? Right? And to me, the president has been declaring an emergency on every issue he can think of. He hasn't declared a housing emergency. He's not using the bully pulpit to actually clear out some of those regulations, make it easier to build the 4 million units of housing that we're short. Right. To me, there's real concrete things we can do to bring back that American dream. Today, when I was talking about national security, it was about also, by the way, economic warfare is happening right now between us and particularly the Chinese. You know, we take things for granted that we're a leader in the world, that the whole world runs on the US Dollar. I gotta tell you, China doesn't want that. China wants countries peeling off and using their currency instead of our currency. So how do we make sure going into the future, we don't lose that strong ability to run the global system on the dollar? How do we make sure that if the Chinese are weaponizing our supply chains, that we do something about that? We make cars in Michigan. If China has a veto and can decide, you' going to get that metal, you're not going to get that part, you're not going to get that chip. Well, they've got a veto on our economy. We need industrial policy that actually ensures we are not allowing China to do that. And we're hanging out with our friends and saying we're not going to let that happen. We need to make things in America right? And not everything. I tell people we're never again going to make ladies razors and Rubik's cubes in the United States of America.

[Commercial Announcer]

Fine.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

But chips, right? Making certain pharmaceuticals so that we never have to depend on another country. That's what I mean by industrial policy. So there's a number of things that we can do. I just think, you know, every single day, Donald Trump is doing 10 things that grab our attention every single day. He's distracting us purposely so that we're not paying attention to the fact that costs are going up and not down in people's lives every single day. He's coming up with press conferences and announcements so that we're not talking about the price of health care that's about to jump for every single American. We need to cut through that and remember that we have to offer a positive, affirmative vision of what we want to do. And for me, it is about the middle class making things in America and jobs.

[Nicole Wallace]

I have to sink in a quick break to your point about all the other things happening. I want to ask you about tactics. You know, how you Nod to the 10 things and then bring people back to what you call today an existential threat, these threats to the middle class. Let's take a quick break first. We'll be right back and have that conversation. Next. I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay, that no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody if you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Nicole Wallace]

We'Re back with Senator Alyssa Slotkin of Michigan. I want to come back to your use of existential about the threat to people's economic security, about using words that are usually associated with foreign policy threats. It seems intended to do what you mentioned before the break, divert our attention back to what matters, the real threats and away from Donald Trump's 10 insane things every day.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Yeah, I mean, I think, well, first of all, I think truly people feel it right back home. So it's not hard to capture people's imagination when they are struggling. And then secondly, I think for the media and for Washington and for the people who really follow news every single day, you got to break out of the this insane saturation that's going on. And I think using, frankly, national security and military terms to talk about our economy is a way to break people out of that sort of exhaustion that they're in. But I do, I mean I really feel it in my bones. And this is as someone who lives in a small community where the majority of people are not doing as well as their parents. I also think that, I think it's the issue that unites generations. You've got a lot of working people back home who feel like they can't get ahead. The generation that's graduating college right now doesn't feel like they'll ever live the life that their parents live. So it's a uniting factor among so many Americans. And while there's a ton of issues out there, I think a public servant's job is to speak to the broadest group of people that you represent.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, right? I mean, like the very essence of broadcasting, right, are the things that affect everybody and the economy affects everybody. And Trump can't carve out the people that voted for him and protect them from price increases because of his tariffs or because of the economic instability he's creating. How do you explain. I mean, there are no, as you're talking, there are no policies that Trump champions that help any of the people. You're talking about people for whom costs and the lack of any sort of path toward home ownership or reality. There is nothing on the Republican agenda to help them. How do you explain the pull that Trump's MAGA GOP has? Is it all culture, you know, on working class voters, if there's not any policy that helps them?

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

I mean, I think, look, I live in a Trump voting town. I've never won my town, I've never won my precinct, I've never won my neighbors. I took my town supervisor as my plus one to Trump's inauguration cuz he's such a fan. So I live in that. And I think a lot of people will say, the jury's out, right? We don't know he's got a grand.

[Nicole Wallace]

Plan on the economy.

[Lisa Rubin]

They think they're still.

[Nicole Wallace]

What do they think he's gonna do?

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

I think that they voted for him because they felt like he was gonna pull a rabbit out of a hat and put more money in their pocket. And they're still holding on. Now, going back to school was a tough moment, right? That's when families are spending kind of more money. I heard a lot of grumbling like price of clothes, price of school supplies, like it was harder to get kids back to school. I think Christmas is gonna be tough, which is painful, right?

[Nicole Wallace]

Because Trump told us one doll, not three.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Right. Well, but I think there is no doubt about it that people are gonna be feeling the pain, particularly on healthcare this fall, everyone's gonna get a letter, right? They're gonna get a letter that says your insurance is going up on January 1st by 10 to 20%. We're already seeing that in Michigan. And I don't know a single American who feels like we're paying too little for healthcare.

[Nicole Wallace]

We're getting too much.

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

The system is. Is not well. And so I just think that people will, I think, see the light because they know their own pocketbooks. They may not know fancy policy in Washington. They may not follow the news every day. They know their pocketbooks. They know how much they spend and save every month. And that will catch up with him. But it's not enough. Right. I don't think it's enough for Democrats to just wait for things to happen. Right. That's not service. You have to have an offensive, like plan. You have to present more ideas. And so I've been trying to shove some ideas out there. They can be good, bad, or otherwise. But we need some thought leadership on how to play offense and not just defense, because you can't just point at him, say he's bad and think that that's a political campaign.

[Nicole Wallace]

How are those conversations among your Democratic colleagues? Do you feel like people are feeling more like they're on offense?

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

I think that there's no hiding the fact that we've been on our heels since Trump was elected, and that's not a surprise to any of your viewers. I think that there is a real debate going on, if I can be honest, behind closed doors, it's no longer the debate that was kind of progressives versus moderates. Right. And after Trump was first elected, it's like, what's the future of the party? Is it progressive or a moderate vision? I think the question now, debate now, is really how you answer the following question. Do you believe that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy as we know it, or do you believe that his second term is bad, but, like, his first term will survive it? If we just wait it out, what's the answer? Number one, I'm on team One. And that debate is playing out among lawmakers and among elected leaders and political leaders in the Democratic Party and business leaders and. And business leaders and nonprofit. And that, to me, I don't know, a team that can win in sports without an offense.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. Oh, so interesting. Will you come back?

[Senator Elissa Slotkin]

Of course. Always.

[Nicole Wallace]

Senator Lissa Slotkin, thank you so much for being here. Of course. Up next for us, a massive immigration raid at a car manufacturing plant in Georgia. We'll bring you the latest on that. We'll tell you who they detained next. Yesterday, federal agents conducted the largest single site immigration raid in the history of homeland security investigations. They arrested 475 people outside a Hyundai facility in Georgia, most of them South Korean nationals. Videos show federal agents lining up hundreds of workers and the reality of the chaos and disruptions that have been caused by Donald Trump's mass deportation agenda. The search warrant just unsealed last hour indicates that agents were looking for four people specifically, though the reasons why they were looking for those four people remain under seal. A special agent in charge said the hundreds arrested were illegal or working unlawfully here in the U.S. but the new York Times is reporting that the agent confirmed that some U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents had also been detained initially. No criminal charges have been filed as of yet, while the South Korean government says that it has expressed, quote, concern and regret to the US Embassy over the raid. Up next for us, Donald Trump's unprecedented takeover and expansion of the US Military continues to go unchecked in this country. We'll look at how that's playing out after a very short break. Don't go anywhere.