“The midterms await”

Summary

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Deadline: White House – “The midterms await”

Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace, MSNBC
Guests: Chuck Todd, Claire McCaskill, John Heilemann, Siobhan Green, Texas State Rep. James Talarico, Cristela Alonso

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Episode Overview

In this sharply focused episode, Nicolle Wallace and a panel of political experts dissect the ongoing government shutdown, examining its roots in Republican strategies under Donald Trump, the growing Project 2025 influence, and the stakes for American democracy. Through urgent conversations, the episode confronts the real-life toll on federal workers, the challenge for Democrats crafting a unified message, and the broader moral and cultural implications as the country heads toward the 2026 midterms. The show brings in fresh voices—directly affected former federal workers, state legislators, and comedians—to illustrate the personal and societal consequences of political brinksmanship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Government Shutdown: Political and Human Stakes

• Shutdown as Political Leverage
  • Donald Trump and Republicans have used the shutdown to advance an agenda targeting Democratic-leaning states and federal programs, with threats of mass firings and retaliatory funding cuts.

    “Trump is using a government shutdown to inflict pain on his perceived political enemies.” — Chuck Todd [04:38]

• Project 2025’s Emergence
  • Trump associates his administration with Project 2025—a deeply unpopular hardline policy blueprint—while attempting to distance himself in public.

    “Trump may have forgotten about 4% of Americans approved of Project 2025. … So much for that.” — Chuck Todd [01:49]

2. Democrats’ Dilemma: Message and Unity

• Conflicting Impulses
  • Democrats struggle between voicing comprehensive outrage at Trump’s actions (immorality, authoritarianism) and presenting a clear "ask" (e.g., health care funding) that resonates with broader America.

    “You can’t really say, ‘stop being the Trump administration,’ which is really what Democrats want.” — John Heilemann [08:41]

• The Messaging Challenge
  • Democratic base is mobilized by outrage, but the general public is more moved by economic issues, especially health care.

    “For most of the country, it’s economics … the stuff they’re doing is not popular with … most Americans.” — Claire McCaskill [10:24]

3. Impact on Federal Workers

• Real Consequences, Real Trauma

  • Siobhan Green, a former USAID worker, describes her layoff and the ripple effect it’s had—not just job loss, but setbacks in global humanitarian programs and personal disillusionment.

    “It’s very traumatic, especially when you’ve given your life to service … to help people and then suddenly realize that you’ve been named enemy of the people.” — Siobhan Green [14:43]

  • Russ Vought, Trump’s OMB director, openly states that his goal is to “traumatically” affect federal workers.

    “We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected.” — Russ Vought clip [14:12]
    “Did he succeed in putting you in trauma?” — Chuck Todd [14:39]

• Broader Systemic Risks

  • Federal workers maintain essential services; their mistreatment reverberates through society.

    “The federal government is not a building and a desk … It’s human beings.” — Chuck Todd [13:14]

4. Ethics, Morality, and Democracy in Crisis

• The Moral Toll of Policy

  • Texas Rep. James Talarico reframes budget debates as moral imperatives, grounding the fight for health care and economic justice in religious and ethical duty.

    “A budget is a moral document. … That’s a moral crime and we have to do so much better in this country.” — Rep. James Talarico [25:46]

• Valuing Human Life in Policy

  • Talarico presses for recognition of political opponents as neighbors and humans, criticizing the Republican approach as dehumanizing.

    “Do we value each other as human beings, as neighbors?” — Rep. James Talarico [27:42]

5. Comedy as Resistance and Cultural Reflection

• The Power and Role of Satire
  • Comedian Cristela Alonso discusses laughter as both resistance and healing for communities targeted by policies of exclusion.

    “Joy is a form of resistance. … The people that don’t like you want to see you miserable, and you cannot give them that.” — Cristela Alonso [41:39]

  • She draws on her Mexican-American and immigrant upbringing to expose the lived reality behind headline politics.

    “This administration is great at vilifying groups that don’t have a face. … I am not only an example of the American dream, I am just like everybody else.” — Cristela Alonso [37:52]

• Comedy Special as Social Commentary
  • Alonso intentionally embeds commentary in her stand-up, teaching through laughter and connecting disparate American experiences.

    “We can teach people through laughter. … This is to show you that if you have hope … you have a chance to get your voice out and make change.” — Cristela Alonso [43:36]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Democratic Messaging:

  “How do you be true to why you’re doing this, while also remembering that you can lose this fight if you don’t have a clear message for how do we get the government back open?”
  — John Heilemann [07:47]

• On Economic Consequences:

  “All of the stuff they’re doing … is making energy costs higher, by getting rid of all the clean energy projects, by having health insurance go higher … cutting Medicare and Medicaid.”
  — Claire McCaskill [10:24]

• Human Cost of the Shutdown:

  “USAID was one of the major funders in the international development space. The impact is well beyond the individual workers at USAID … hundreds of thousands of children dead, harmed.”
  — Siobhan Green [14:43]

• On Project 2025 and Authoritarian Messaging:

  “USAID … according to Donald Trump … are the most kind of race freighted, sometimes outright racist kind of caricatures of what they think their base believes.”
  — Nicole Wallace [20:07]

• Reflections on Community and Activism:

  “They bank, they hope that you don’t have people in the community that you can put a soul to. … I decided to be very specific and open about my life so people know … I am just like everybody else.”
  — Cristela Alonso [37:52]

• Comedy as Healing and Protest:

  “If you don’t fight now, you are helping what is happening happen. … We actually become two new parties, and that is supporters and critics.”
  — Cristela Alonso [39:27]

• Final Note on Hope:

  “It is never too late to wake up and try to be a better person for you and everybody else. I always believe that we’re going to win.”
  — Cristela Alonso [46:11]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:31-03:50 – Breaking down Trump administration's provocative, partisan budget actions and shutdown strategy
• 05:10-10:21 – Democratic messaging dilemma and the risk of losing narrative control
• 13:14-19:49 – Federal workers’ perspective; live consequences and Russ Vought’s strategy
• 25:46-31:00 – Texas Rep. James Talarico on morality, health care, and the Democratic response
• 33:07-43:36 – Cristela Alonso on comedy as resistance, immigrant experiences, and hope
• 43:36-46:11 – Alonso reflects on the transformative power of laughter and hope

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Conclusion

This episode is a timely and sobering look into a bitterly divided political landscape, emphasizing how policy fights on Capitol Hill have immediate, personal consequences for ordinary Americans. The guests illuminate the urgent moral choices facing lawmakers as the country braces for the midterms. By elevating stories from federal workers and voices from underrepresented communities, the conversation rises above the usual political analysis, examining democracy’s fragility and the redemptive force of laughter and human connection.

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For listeners seeking insight into the shutdown’s causes, its effects on real people, the strategy battles inside both parties, and the irreplaceable value of both activism and comedy in dark times, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

Deadline. White House is brought to you by Progressive, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average. Plus auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Quote [e-mail] to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who save with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations.

[Chuck Todd]

I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay. That no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody if you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result deadline.

[Nicole Wallace]

White House with Nicole Wallace Weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. The more that Donald Trump acts illegally, the more that he shuts off money only for Democratic states, the more that he threatens to illegally fire federal workers, the stiffer our spine should become. Yes, he's trying to bully Democrats into signing off on a budget that's going to be terrible for the American people, that is going to bankrupt American families. We should not let his illegal firings, his illegal withholding of funds bully us into submission. We should stand for something. We end up signing off and voting for a budget that literally funds the destruction of our democracy, that funds the censorship state that is growing in this country. We will live to regret it.

[Chuck Todd]

Wow. Hi again Everybody. It's now 5 o' clock in New York, Democrats standing firm as Republicans refuse to negotiate the funding of the US Government, leaving us right now into a second day of a government shutdown which impacts, frankly all of us but directly hundreds of thousands of federal workers. As you heard there from Senator Chris Murphy, Donald Trump and Republicans are not just putting the government on pause and refusing to fund it. They're attempting to undermine our very democracy by using the shutdown as a means to, as Chris Murphy said, illegally enact revenge and retribution. Yesterday we saw Trump's Office of Management and Budget director, a fellow named Russ Boat, announce drastic cuts to federal programs in certain states. The states just happen to have voted against Donald Trump in last year's election, but in them are all sorts of different people. Vote declared the cancellation of $8 billion in funding for energy programs that would affect 16 states, all of which went for Kamala Harris in 2024. He also noted that $18 billion in funding for two infra infrastructure projects in New York state, home of two home of the Democratic leaders of both chambers will be canceled. According to Politico. Vote on a private call with House Republicans additionally confirmed a threat Trump made about layoffs coming as a consequence of the shutdown. He said mass firings of federal workers would happen, quote, in a day or two, end quote. Today, Trump is meeting with vote to discuss all this stuff and acknowledged on social media that vote is quote of Project 2025 fame. Trump may have forgotten about 4% of Americans approved of Project 2025. It was so unpopular that Trump said what? I never read that. So much for that. The quote, I know Nothing about Project 2025 lie leader Hakeem Jeffries this afternoon called it all out when he held a press conference on the Capitol steps.

[Nicole Wallace]

Donald Trump and Republicans spent all of last year promising that they were going.

[Chuck Todd]

To lower the high cost of living.

[Nicole Wallace]

They also spent all of the last year running away from Project 2025, acting like Project 2025 didn't exist. But what have they been doing this year? This year they've done nothing, zip, zero, stingy with De Niro, nothing to lower the the high cost of living for everyday Americans while at the same period.

[Chuck Todd]

Of time implementing and unleashing Project 2025.

[Nicole Wallace]

Now all of a sudden, Donald Trump admits it was his project all along. He just did it earlier today. What we're saying is America's too expensive. Donald Trump has made things worse.

[Chuck Todd]

Donald Trump using a government shutdown to inflict pain on his perceived political enemies is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts. In joining us now is Siobhan Green. She's a former federal worker whose dream job at USAID was eliminated earlier this year. Also joining us, former Democratic senator and MSNBC political analyst Claire McCaskill. And with me at the table, Puck senior Political Puck News senior political columnist, MSNBC national affairs analyst John Heilman. You have so many titles. I'm sorry I stumbled over them.

[Nicole Wallace]

I just call me Heilman.

[Chuck Todd]

Heilman. I will. I, I think Chris Murphy and Hakeem Jeffries this afternoon have landed on an articulation that is easy to understand about what's going on here.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, I think it's they're slightly different. I think the two of them. And I think the virtue of what Chris Murphy said is that it is true in the sense that I think what's animating what has stiffened the spine of Democrats is not. And I think some Democratic message person's gonna get mad at me for saying this, but I don't really care. It's not health. It's not. I mean, they care about health care. Democrats care about healthcare. They care about healthcare. But that's not really why things are different now than they were in the spring when Schumer decided to let the vote to keep the government open. What's different now is that all of this other stuff has happened. All of these. You know, there's been the deployment of troops, there's been the depredations of ice. There's been the command of the president to his attorney general to prosecute political enemies and to declare. And why the process declaring them guilty before they've been indicted. We can make a list as long as both of our arms put together. And what there is, is there's a sense among Democratic voters and among many Democratic members of Congress that they're just like, how can we fund a government that does all of this stuff that is unconstitutional, that is authoritarian, that is heinous, that is not American. Right. That's the animating impulse and why There is so much, so far, at least, so much Democratic unity and consistency in spirit. You also understand that as a party, you need to have a clear, coherent message, and you need to have some kind of an ask. You need to be asking for something. We will give you the vote you need if you give us what. And I think that's where the tricky part comes for Democrats. They are focusing on health care as the ask. Right. But. But it's not health care that's animating what's happening here. And I think what you hear in Chris Murphy is a true articulation of the kind of comprehensive anger and outrage over the totality of the Trump government in the last eight months. And so that has the ring of authenticity, I think, in Hakeem Jeffries, you hear something slightly different, which is, you know, there's a little bit of like, are you going to be. Are you going to articulate the rage, the emotion, the anger, the righteousness, or are you going to focus on what has been decided is going to be our message? Our message is going to be restore the cups on health care, or we're not going to give you the votes? And I think, you know, when you're the leader, you're in a slightly different position than Chris Murphy is officially the leader of House Democrats. I'm not really critiquing Jefferies there, but there is going to be a question going forward about how singular, you know, trying to keep everyone on the same Page of like, what is our clear demand? What is our exit strategy? What will bring this to an end? Because I'll, you know, remember, remind everybody, the last time there was a Trump shutdown, it was in December of 2018. It was 35 days long. It was the longest federal government shutdown in history. And the wind and weather right now is worse by far. And the prospects of reopening the government, I think, are dimmer than they were then. And the appetite for it on both sides, in some ways, the appetite for it is dimmer. And the pain of people going, what is going on here? Ordinary voters is going to escalate with each passing day. So that challenge of how do you be true to why you're doing this, while also remembering that you can lose this fight if you don't have a clear message for how do we get the government back open? Because that is what people want in the country. They want the government to be open. And who they see is at fault is what this whole argument is about. How do you frame it? How do you frame where we're going? What do we want? What are we going to get? What will we do if we get the thing that we say we want? All of that is going to be politically what matters, because in the end, people are going to look up and say this was the Trump shutdown, or they're going to say this was the Democratic shutdown. And you don't want to be on the other side of that, on the other side of the blame. That's why it's tricky for Democrats, as I say, because I think their animating impulse, which I think a lot of us share are not, don't align perfectly with what your ask is going to be. Right. You can't really say, stop being the Trump administration, which is really what Democrats would want. Stop doing all the, all this stuff. That's where the challenge is, the political challenge and the communications challenge for the party going forward.

[Chuck Todd]

But why is it only tricky for Democrats?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, because I think Republicans have a pretty clear. The Republicans are. Their position is we won, we're doing what we ran on and, you know, like it or lump it, and we are perfectly willing to vote to keep the government open, which is under the terms that we've set out. So it's not as complicated a messaging thing for them. We ran a certain way. We're doing the things we said we were going to run on. And now we want to keep the government open, do more of those things if you want to hold us accountable. The midterms wait, in 2026, they are voting to keep the government open, Right? That's why it's more challenging, because Democrats are the ones who are withholding the votes.

[Chuck Todd]

Claire, how do you see this moment?

[Cristela Alonso]

Well, I agree with John somewhat, but in some ways this is much different than 2018, 2019, because remember what happened in January of 2019 and what brought it really to an end and that was the Democrats took the House, Nancy Pelosi took over as speaker early January of 2019. So it was a much different scenario in terms of what cards McConnell had to play and what Trump could actually get done. And I will say this. Yes, the animation for the base is rage, but for most of the country, it's economics. And what they're doing right now, a lot of the stuff they're doing and are going to do is not popular with not just the base of the Democratic Party but with most Americans that is making energy costs higher by getting rid of all the clean energy projects, by having health insurance go higher because they're not extending the support in the Obamacare program, cutting Medicare and Medicaid. And one thing is different now, Nicole, than was in and back in March, they hadn't passed a bill cutting a trillion dollars out of America's health care. So I do think the message is pretty simple. We need you to give something back to the American people to deal with their health care costs. That is going to reach not just the people in our party that are outraged at everything this guy is doing and how he's doing it. It's going to reach the rest of America. That frankly doesn't have a lot of patience with either side at this point?

[Chuck Todd]

Claire, you don't think there's a risk of angering the base if you fund ICE and you fund the things that the government's doing that a lot of people think are illegal, as Chris Murphy said there.

[Cristela Alonso]

Well, I think you have to figure out a way to open government again and getting some kind of concession on health care costs I think will give a win not just to the Democratic Party, but also the base of the Democratic Party because they will see the Democrats stood up and got something that we really care about. And frankly, it's really good politics too. Costs are not going down for America. And you know, whether it's property insurance, whether it's homeowners insurance, whether it's health insurance, whether it's utility bills, all of those things are going up to say nothing. What's going on with food and what's going on with the farmers. So there really is a moment here where the Democrats can build on this shutdown and hopefully get out of it with something and, and then build on that towards the midterms. And then maybe there won't be a shutdown at the end of next year because there will be a Democratic speaker coming into the House.

[Chuck Todd]

Siobhan I am inspired by the great Michael Lewis book and reporting on federal workers to never cover federal workers without talking to at least one of them and reminding people of all of the sort of thankless things that federal workers do, from answering phones at call centers to making sure Social Security payments go out, to serving the country in the military, to serving veterans at va, to serving taxpayers with questions at the irs. Every aspect of our life is touched by human beings. The federal government is not a building and a desk and inanimate objects. It's human beings. And I just want to play for our viewers what the person in charge of eliminating federal workers and exploiting this moment to eliminate more of them how he feels about federal workers.

[Nicole Wallace]

We want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affected. We want, when they wake up in the morning, we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. We want their funding to be shut down so that the EPA can't do all of the rules against our energy industry because they have no bandwidth financially to do so. We want to put them in trauma.

[Chuck Todd]

Did he succeed in putting you in trauma?

[Cristela Alonso]

There's been a lot of trauma, I would say, across. So as you mentioned, I worked at USAID and we've been particularly hard impact by this. USAID was one of the major funders in the international development space. So the impact is well beyond the individual workers at usaid. It's thousands, hundreds of thousands of children dead, harmed. It's very traumatic, especially when you've given your life to service, to change the world for a better place, to help people and then suddenly realize that you've been named enemy of the people in an eo? There's a lot to deal with there.

[Chuck Todd]

Shivam, how are you doing now? And what happens after they succeed in destroying an agency like us and firing federal workers with the explicit purpose of, quote, traumatically affecting them?

[Cristela Alonso]

So I will say I've been very lucky in the colleagues that I have from usaid. We have developed so many different communities to help each other find jobs, find income, set up new businesses, find ways to continue, find ways to fight for our democracy. We sort of ironically said they fired all the people at usaid. But USAID has a long standing history of trying to fight for democratic principles around the world in places that are very authoritarian and very difficult to work in and understand the nuts and bolts about how to do that. So I know a lot of people running for office, as well as just providing more support to again, fighting for democratic principles, rule of law, and sort of helping people understand why these things that the government's doing oftentimes flies in the face of decades of experience, both bipartisan experience. There are reasons why we've done things certain ways. There's a reason why the government's slow. It's because it has an outsized impact on the American economy and the American people when changes do happen. And maybe we don't feel those impacts immediately, but they are there and they are coming.

[Chuck Todd]

Did you ever think that those democratic principles at USAID under Democratic presidents and Republican presidents, which Democrats and Republicans have said the agency has always turned rather effortlessly and quickly, regardless of who is in the Oval Office to carry out the objectives. I worked for George W. Bush. USAID was instrumental in a pro democracy agenda. Did you ever think that you'd be talking about applying those principles to your own country?

[Cristela Alonso]

No, definitely not. One of the things that I worked in is digital government and especially data governance and making sure that all the data that the governments have on citizens and businesses and so forth are being used for good purposes, are accurate, are not being hacked by cybersecurity, but also not being used for surveillance and anti democratic principles. And so we did a lot and we partnered with other parts of the government, the US Government, as well as multilateral and bilaterals, to really promote basic democratic principles in a lot of countries where they might have the policy but not necessarily the implementation, or they promised things but didn't necessarily deliver on them. And so a lot of what we did was fund these programs to get civil society and to get municipal government staff to understand why it's really important not to, say, take someone's medical data and use it in law enforcement unless you have very clear governance procedures, rule of law procedures. What's interesting is that when I talk these days about why we need this, I don't really need to give a lot of examples anymore because people say, oh, oh, you mean what's been happening to us recently? I'm like, unfortunately, yes. And it is, you know, it's very disheartening to have to bring that message back home again. But maybe we also have some great examples of how it can change.

[Chuck Todd]

I mean, Hellman, when you think about all the things that they say hoping that no one will think too long about any one of them. Like, that's sort of like the architecture behind the volume business that Steve Ennis talked about. I mean, firing people like Siobhan, who was simply helping USAID help countries create civil societies that didn't surveil their citizens is like such a twist of irony that's almost too big to take.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yes. And there's two different parts to the flood the zone with shit strategy, as Stephen, as Steve Bannon put it, I'll quote him out loud here, because we wouldn't want to let an hour go by without getting us correct.

[Chuck Todd]

It's been 48 hours since I used that word.

[Nicole Wallace]

There's two. One is pump out so much that people can't think about anything for too long, but the other piece of it is lie about it. And so part of the story, if you go back and look at Trump's address, joint address to Congress at the beginning of the year, when he characterized at great length what USAID was according to Donald Trump, which is, you know, all like just DCs, they're not just false, but they're the most kind of race freighted, sometimes outright racist kind of caricatures of what they think their base. He thinks his base believes about anything that has to do with the words with the letters ng. Anything that we do abroad, anything that we do in a place like Africa, any place. Thing that we do in a place where people are not white Anglo Saxons that they mischaracterize. So flood the zone. And then to the extent that anybody stops and thinks about like, well, what ausaid, what's that? Oh, well, those are the people who help these people in these countries that you can't quite pronounce that are filled with black people. You want to get rid of that. So it's the combination of those two things. And I will say that just, you know, earlier I talked about the challenges Democrats face in this. Here's a challenge that Republicans face in this, a very acute one, which is two words. Russ Vote is a challenge that people face in this. Because I don't think, as we saw with the way polling went around, Doge, the notion that the Republicans are going to use this as cover for the kind of wholesale firing of government workers, not furloughing, but firing that is not going to prove to be popular in the same way that Doge has not proved to be popular. And I think that Democrats are really helped politically by Russell Vote coming to the fore, basically saying, here I am, I'm going to get a bunch of people fired here. That's what this is really all about. That's the way, that's the way to lose the messaging.

[Chuck Todd]

I mean, the last guy that did this was Elon Musk, who is credited with giving Democrats victory in Wisconsin in the state supreme court race. And 35% of Americans approved of the doge caused, 57% disapproved. And this was like the earliest honeymoon of Donald Trump's presidency. This was March or April.

[Nicole Wallace]

All we need now is Russell Boat with a chainsaw. And it will be the same kind of thing as a image we will see in the midterms. That image with the chainsaw. And Russ Vote is now giving voice. You're reviving that again verbally, right?

[Chuck Todd]

Siobhan, I am sorry for what you've endured for the simple act of serving your country. And I thank you for your service and for joining us here today to talk about it. I'm always grateful to you for your service and for being here to make sense of everything going on on Capitol Hill. John sticks around. When we come back, one of the bright lights in today's Democratic Party, but they're getting right in terms of how they're talking to all Americans. Texas State Representative James Tallarico will be here on the other side of a break. Also ahead for us, the power of political comedy. Jimmy Kimmel's suspension and reinstatement touched on a fight over free speech in this country. And as the White House cracks down on satire and freedom of expression, it is the comedians who continue to point the way forward for the rest of us. Comedian Christella Alonso will join us with a message for Donald Trump later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Cristela Alonso]

I need a coffee.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Chuck Todd]

I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay. That no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody. If you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.

[Nicole Wallace]

Deadline White House With Nicole Wallace Weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Chuck Todd]

Despite Donald Trump and the Republican Party's rather desperate attempts to blame Democrats for the government shutdown, so far the American people are not buying it. A new poll from the Washington Post finds that 47% of Americans blame Trump and Republicans in Congress, compared to 30% who blame congressional Democrats. One independent voter tells the Washington Post this, quote, all branches of government are currently controlled by Republicans, yet they are somehow blaming Democrats for their inability to get something figured out that both parties agree on. Texas State Representative and U.S. senate candidate James Talarico joins us right now. John Halman is still here and may jump in. Consider yourself warned. Tell me how you see this moment in our politics.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, you know that in addition to being a lawmaker, I'm also a seminarian. And if you read the New Testament, Jesus doesn't spend most of his time preaching or teaching or even praying. He spends most of his time healing the sick. Right now we have politicians in Congress with Christ Follower in their Twitter bio, but they are kicking the sick off their health care. We as lawmakers, especially those of us who proclaim a devout faith, have a special obligation to heal people, not make them sicker. I feel like we oftentimes sanitize this discussion about health care by talking about premiums and continuing resolutions. But a budget is a moral document. What happens to people when they can't afford their health insurance? Diabetics ration their insulin, seniors skip their medications, and ultimately people die. And that's exactly what will happen if these Republican cuts are all passed. There's an estimate that 51,000Americans will die needlessly if all these cuts go through. That's 51,000 flesh and blood human beings. That's a moral crime and we have to do so much better in this country. And again, this isn't really just about policy. It's not about politics. This is about morality. And I think we need to talk more about that.

[Chuck Todd]

Well, let's do that then. I mean, you have one of the most prominent and long standing anchors on the Fox News morning program who recently said that, recently asked, quote, why don't we euthanize homeless people? He did apologize a couple days later. But that, that's even something that you would utter suggests that we're a long way away from a frame around political discussions like what you're talking about. How do we get to where you're talking about?

[Nicole Wallace]

You know, I think it's a matter of recognition. We have to recognize each other as our, as fellow human beings, as neighbors, as members of an extended family. And only when you have that recognition can we have a politics where we take care of each other, where we're more careful with how we treat one another, both with our, our words, but also with our, our politics and our public policies. I think that's what this entire discussion about the government shutdown about health care really comes down to is do we value each other as human beings, as neighbors? And currently the proposals that we're seeing from the Republican Party in Washington don't value our fellow Americans, don't value their lives or the lives of their, their family members. And that has got to change in our politics as we move forward.

[Chuck Todd]

What do you suggest Democrats in Washington do to make sure that that happens?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, I'm really happy to see Democrats in Washington finally stepping up and pushing back against these inhumane policies. We should always be trying to work on a bipartisan basis. It's what I've done as a, as a legislator in Texas. But you also have to stand up for your constituents. You have to stand up for the American people. And so I'm all for coming to the table, but I'm not willing to negotiate away the health care of millions of Americans and millions of Texans. Texans are going to be some of the people who are most impacted if these Republican cuts go through in Washington. James, you and I talked a couple months ago, right after you guys came back, went back to Texas after you broke quorum and you had given a sermon in Chicago where you talked about Jesus and flipping over the tables in the, in the temple. And you said it was time for the Democratic Party to have some, to do some more table flipping. I assume you think that this shutdown kind of falls into that category. How far? We were just talking earlier on the show about the fact that health care is really important to Democrats, but in fact, a lot of Democrats just have a lot the totality of the Trump administration is doing things that it finds immoral, unconstitutional, illegal, outrageous, unacceptable. How far do you take it? If you are in the camp who in your heart, yes, you want to see those cuts restored on health care, but in fact, you object just as much to funding ICE under these circumstances. How far do you take this shutdown in the spirit of flipping tables? Well, I don't think any of us want to flip tables just for flipping tables sake. We don't want to shut down the government or break quorum just to do it. These are extreme measures that are only used when absolutely necessary. And in our case in Texas, it was about ensuring that politicians, including the most powerful politician in the country, is held accountable at the ballot box, which is the most American thing you can think of. And he was trying to escape that accountability by redrawing the political maps. In the middle of the decade in Washington, they are trying to raise health care premiums on millions of Americans and including millions of Texans. That is a red line that, that we shouldn'.

[Cristela Alonso]

Cross.

[Nicole Wallace]

And again, I would hope this isn't just a Democratic statement. I hope all lawmakers in both political parties would recognize that we have an obligation, a moral obligation to ensure that every person in this country can access the health care they need to stay alive and, and ultimately to thrive and to prosper. That should be a bipartisan goal. And so if, if one party is trying to gut health care in order to cut taxes for their donors, that's corruption. And we should all be standing up against corruption. And we should use every tool in the toolbox. We should play to the fullest extent of the rules so that we can defend the people that we seek to represent.

[Chuck Todd]

Texas State Representative James Tallerico, thank you so much for joining our conversation again. John Halman, thank you for being here at the table, my friend. Great to see you. We want to let you know that the Deadline Legal newsletter is back ahead of a busy year at the Supreme Court. The legal battles aren't going anywhere and you can keep up on all of it by becoming a subscriber. Just scan the QR code on your screen and you'll get a brand new newsletter in your inbox every Friday. When we come back, the power of comedy to speak the truth in a time of creeping authoritarianism. Comedian Christella Alonso, who has a brand new Netflix special, will be our guest. That's after a short break. Don't go anywhere. I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay. That no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody. If you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.

[Nicole Wallace]

Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily newsletter. Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up [e-mail].

[Chuck Todd]

Like canaries in the coal mine, it is the comedians who are usually the most astute observers and therefore among the first targets of any government seeking to silence criticism. And in that environment, simply telling a joke can be an act of bravery. Jimmy Kimmel and his late night contemporaries are proving it every night, and they share that particular brand of courage with countless other comedians who carry on under threat of an apparent government crackdown. Maybe you already know and love Cristella Alonso. She's one of four children to a single mom who was undocumented until Christela was 10. She has a brand new special on Netflix called Upper Classy. Watch a little bit of that.

[Cristela Alonso]

I feel bad for parents. God, you get tricked. Because when people say they want kids, they usually mean, I want a baby. No one ever says, aye, I want a 17 year old. And I get it. Babies are cute. Oh, my God. They're little, they're fat, they don't talk. You can dress them up in costume like, oh, here's my pirate baby. And then when you get tired of it, you just put it in the corner of the couch and it just stays there. I helped my sister raise three kids. You think she even asked me if I wanted to? No. She just showed up one day like, bitch, we got three kids. She was married. I'm like, and your husband? She's like, ah, screw that guy. You and me, we're raising these kids. I still haven't lost the weight from the third one.

[Chuck Todd]

I want to bring in someone I had the privilege and honor of knowing and working with a little bit when I was on the View. Very, very successful and brilliant and warm and wonderful and brave and witty comedian Christella Alonso. She also happens to be the Mexican American woman to create, produce, write, and star in her own American primetime comedy, ABC's Cristela. Her new Netflix special, Upper Classy, is available for streaming right now. It is so nice to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

[Cristela Alonso]

Oh, it's so great. It's so great to be here. I watch the show Every day.

[Chuck Todd]

You do not. You do not.

[Cristela Alonso]

I do. I watch it every day. I think I'm the fan club of this show.

[Chuck Todd]

I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry. I mean, you are one of the smartest and hardest working and funniest people, and that's, you know, that's a success story and a story in its own right. But you also are so on this moment, and I wonder if you ever, if you ever do your thing. I mean, you know, watching you, it's never apparent, but are you a little. Are you any more scared in this moment than other moments?

[Cristela Alonso]

No, you can't be. And actually, I think that growing up Latina in this country, you get used to really feeling like you have a responsibility to say something. Personally, for me, I always feel like I have to be specific about what I'm saying. I love talking about my community because not enough people talk about the community. So I always think about the priorities. The priority is to live in fear and stay silent or to say something and know that whatever happens, you're honest and open and hopefully reached people that maybe were unfamiliar with your community to begin with.

[Chuck Todd]

What is happening in your community? Give voice to everything you see and hear.

[Cristela Alonso]

You know, it's weird. Your last segment, you had James Tallarigo. I was born and raised in Texas, so now I live in Los Angeles. So I live best of both worlds, right? It's just, you know, I keep track of the elections in Texas, but then we also have Prop 50 in California that you have to vote on next week. So to me, what's happening in my community is something that's been happening for decades. I grew up with an undocumented single mom in the 80s in South Texas when immigration raids were a thing during the Reagan administration. So immigration raids are a thing that some people are used to. And when the ICE raid started in Los Angeles a couple of months ago, it immediately took me back to being a little kid. I was born in the United States, but my mother wasn't. And people don't understand that with that comes a lot of responsibility for a child. Not only are you American, but now you have to be your parents protector. And I think that the reason that I talk so much about that, about immigration is just even though I'm American, I lived with an immigrant family. My experience is completely different. And my story's not original. It's actually the story of so many people, but we don't put a face to it. This administration is great at vilifying groups that don't Have a face. They bank. They hope that you don't have people in the community that you can put a soul to. So they say these people are the problem. And I've decided to be very specific and open about my life so that people know I am not only an example of the American dream, I am just like everybody else. My people are just like everybody else. What we want is an opportunity. Just like the American dream was taught. Just like everything when you go to school, they teach you this country is about working hard and having a chance.

[Chuck Todd]

The thing about covering a political convention where people had signs that said mass deportations and mass deportations now is that I didn't want to think that that was the message they landed on as the message most likely to help them win. And then when they won, that, that was something they did out loud. And I wonder what it's like. Like, how do you live open hearted in a world where the person that ran on that message won.

[Cristela Alonso]

I'm going to be very honest and say that you live with hope because it's all you have and you hope that things get better because there is no other choice. I've grown. I've grown up in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood. And then when I left Texas, I went, I became the minority. And I had never been the minority in any land, in any place. My neighborhood was a Mexican neighborhood. I was just Cristela. But then when I left, I was the Latina in the neighborhood. I was one of only. And let me tell you, it's one of those moments where you think if you don't fight now, you are helping what is happening happen. We talk a lot about Democrats and Republicans. I watch MSNBC a lot. It's always Democrats, Republicans. But really, if we don't say anything now, we actually become two new parties. And that is supporters and critics. And that is not something that this country was about when I was growing up.

[Chuck Todd]

You made me cry. I need you to stick around. I have thousands more questions for you. We're gonna sneak in a quick break. We'll both be right back.

[Cristela Alonso]

Latinos are the only ones that name their kids Jesus. White people don't do that. I love that for you. White people will name their kids friends of Jesus. You know, there's Mark, there's Paul, there's Joseph. How are you? That's another reason I have low self esteem. I think I was raised super Catholic. And if you're Catholic, you're not allowed to like yourself at all. Oh, you have to be modest and humble. And my family could be like, I hate myself. And my mom's like, aye, someone's going to heaven.

[Chuck Todd]

So laughing feels like its own subversive act these days. And I wonder if that feels like a burden or a gift or how you carry that in this moment.

[Cristela Alonso]

Oh, it's so important. I keep telling everybody, joy is a form of resistance. It's a form of protest. The people that don't like you want to see you miserable, and you cannot give them that. You cannot give them the opportunity to see you sad. You know, my oldest brother was undocumented for years. He became a citizen in 2016 after 30 years of trying. And we grew up in the same household. We grew up in the. With the same family, same mother. And years ago, about 10 years ago, he told me, you know, every day, so many times when I see undocumented people on tv, they're always so sad. And I don't know why, because I love to laugh. I like music. I like enjoying life. And it's funny because at that moment, I realized he. My own brother has had a different experience than I have in this country, and we grew up in the same household. And that's when I realized how important it is to have joy. And that's one of the things that I talk about in the special, too. Because in this country, we have been taught that work is the most important thing in our lives. We get told you have to work first, work hard, and then you enjoy life. But they never tell you how much work is enough. They never tell you, when do you go live life? So it's important for us to work hard. The problem isn't that you don't work hard enough. It's that you work too much. You have to take a break and enjoy life. You have to learn how to love life. And through that, you do it by. By watching shows, by making people laugh. I love that I can do that. And when I see people laugh, especially people that grew up like me, it's one of the biggest joys of my life. It's an honor.

[Chuck Todd]

Tell me what this special is like, having this out there in this moment where comedians are right now, one of the brightest lights we have.

[Cristela Alonso]

You know, the first special I shot In August of 2016, my very first special, and I had jokes about Trump, and they told me not to do them because they said, well, he's not going to win. And I thought, no, it's important to have those jokes, even if he doesn't win, because it shows a snapshot of where we are in this Time. My second special I was going to shoot around my birthday. My birthday is on January 6th. That January 6th was when I was going to shoot my second special. I ended up getting Covid. I moved it. The third one I shot on June 14, which is no Kings Day. So this man has followed me the entire time that he's been running. And let me tell you, I didn't know what to do. But I knew that on King's Day I was shooting it in Dallas, Texas, where I started doing stand up. And I thought, I have to do something, I have to say something. And it wasn't, you know, I did my hour, I did the special I was gonna do. And then at the end I had a come to Jesus moment with the audience and basically told them, this is the time when we have to decide what kind of person we are. Who are we to our children, who are we to the future. This is the time when we decide who we're going to be. And I did it at the end after they had been laughing for an hour so that they could leave with that in mind after having laughed. Because that's one thing that I think we can use in our arsenal. We can teach people through laughter. We can sneak in lessons in life through laughter. And I love doing that. And the special to me was a snapshot in this moment that this is part of a trilogy. My first special was called Lower Classy. The second one was called Middle Classy. This one's called Upper Classy. And it's been a 10 year scope that shows the ascension of my life. And I didn't know what my life was going to do. I didn't know where it was going to take me. But I knew that what it was was part of the American dream, whatever it was going to be. And that's how I approach the special. This is to show you that if you have hope, if you have hope, you have a chance to get your voice out and make change.

[Chuck Todd]

And I guess if we can laugh together, it's pretty hard to feel anything other than connected to the other person laughing hysterically with you in the moment. We're going to need you to come back. We're going to need you in our lifeboat.

[Cristela Alonso]

Christela, thank you so much. And honestly, just really quick, I just want to tell everybody it is never too late to wake up and try to be a better person for you and everybody else. I always believe that we're going to win.

[Chuck Todd]

I love that. I love that. And anyone that needs more, like myself, you can stream Upper Classy tonight on Netflix. One more break. We'll be right back. Quick programming note. Rosie o' Donnell is my guest on this week's episode of the Best People. You can watch the whole thing now on YouTube or scan the QR code on your screen to listen to the conversation. Right now. I hope you let me know what you think. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful for this ad is.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Cristela Alonso]

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[Nicole Wallace]

Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devato.com or call 1-877-844-8872 to learn more.