← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"The most repugnant conduct of the President"
00:41:20
Nicolle Wallace on Donald Trump putting his racism on full display when he shared a blatantly, flagrantly racist post with the images of former President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama.
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- [00:00]
Nicole Wallace
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- [01:06]
Nicole Wallace
Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. It is the first week of Black History Month in America, and we'll start with the sublime. It's worth reminding ourselves what civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. S vision was for our country when he stood before the masses in Washington, D.C. gave that iconic, historic speech, said that he had a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed that all men are created equal. He dreamed of a nation where his children were no longer judged by the color of their skin. And now for the ludicrous. In stark contrast, this is how Donald Trump decided to launch the first week of Black History Month in America in 2026. He did so by putting his racism on full display. He shared a blatantly, flagrantly racist post last night. It led to the rare occurrence of some members of Donald Trump's own political party drawing a line in the sand, which led to an unusual reversal from Donald Trump. But not before the White House first tried to excuse the display of racism. In one of Donald Trump's late night Truth social sprees wherein he shared posts filled with conspiracy theories, the kind of spree that would make a figure in entertainment or sports face questions about their faculties. Donald Trump posted away until he got to a racist depiction of President Obama and former First Lady Michelle Obama depicting them as apes. He spread that image to his 10 million followers. Now, normally around here we wouldn't present this racist content, but we decided to do so not just because a sitting president of the United States posted it. He posted this image of a former president, a very popular one and first lady. But it Isn't going to be our job to edit or whitewash the most repugnant conduct and actions of Donald J. Trump. He shared this image to the world in our name as Americans. And you should see it, all of you, especially people who voted for him. What's new about this one? Well, a few things. I mean, Donald Trump's been launching racist attacks on President Obama and Michelle Obama for years now. Donald Trump championed and amplified the birther conspiracy theory that President Obama was not born in the United States. A lie. The New York Times writes this of Donald Trump's latest display of racism towards President Obama and Michelle Obama. Quote, the depiction of Mr. And Mrs. Obama as apes perpetuates a racist trope used historically by slave traders and segregationists to dehumanize black people and justify lynchings. There's no denying that racist history depicting black people as apes. And I know we talk a lot about what Donald Trump knows and doesn't know. There's no idiot defense here because the White House actually defended this. They were good with this. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt went on the attack. She tried to justify Donald Trump's post with this quote. This is from an Internet meme video depicting President Trump as the king of the jungle and Democrats as characters from the Lion King. Please stop the fake outrage and report on something today that actually matters to the American public, like your deeply unpopular agenda. Don't worry, we'll get to that, Caroline. And a little fact check for Lion King lovers. No apes. There are no apes in the Lion King. The backlash to Trump's post was swift and, oddly, rarely bipartisan. The list of Republicans rebuking Donald Trump's racist post grew by the hour today. Republican Senator Tim Scott, a staunch defender of Donald Trump, called the post, quote, the most racist thing I've seen out of this White House, end quote. Republican Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick writes this quote, racism and hatred have no place in our country ever. They divide our people and weaken the foundations of our democracy. History leaves no doubt. When division is inflamed by those in positions of power, the consequences are real and lasting, whether intentional or careless. This post is a grave failure of judgment and is absolutely unacceptable from anyone, most especially the President of the United States. A clear and unequivocal apology is owed. After leaving the Post up for 12 hours, Donald Trump then deleted it. And desperate to shift the blame somewhere, anywhere, a White House official says a White House staffer, quote, erroneously, erroneously posted the racist content. That's the case. It is inexplicable, then, that there's still been zero apology issued to the Obamas. A blatantly racist post amplified by Donald Trump during the first week of Black History Month is where we start today. Senior White House reporter Vaughn Hilliard is here. He has chronicled an unbelievable, unbelievably shameful list of all the examples of Donald Trump's racist conduct. It took my breath away to see it the way you compiled it, Vaughn. Also joining us, Princeton University professor and political analyst Eddie Glad is here. Puck News senior political columnist and national affairs analyst John Heilman is here with me at the table, Host of Politics Nation, president of the National Action Network, The Reverend Al Sharpton's here. What are your thoughts on this?
- [06:47]
Reverend Al Sharpton
I think that you raised in your, in your buildup something that's very important. People need to understand. Donald Trump began his political career with racism. I mean, we fought with him in New York for many years, marched on him when he called for the execution of five young men who were falsely accused of raping a white woman, was found guilty of discrimination in housing. But when he decided he wanted to be Democrat sometime, would go to social events with all of us, he decided to enter politics by saying, barack Obama is not one of us. The racial overtones, undertones, whatever way you want to call it, is how he entered the political arena. So we are only seeing the manifestation of what he said it was all along. He won the White House with us against them. He ran an administration, don't forget, in his first term is when we went through George Floyd, Ahmaud, Arbery, Breonna Taylor, all of that. He was president and did nothing about it other than to go in front of a church across the street from the White House and said when the shooting starts, the looting starts, the shooting starts and threaten the protesters. So it's like full circle. Now. We see in the beginning of Black History Month 2026, the President of the United States puts out a depiction of, of the former president and first lady who raised the hopes of many in this nation that we had crossed some line and made some advancement as a society. And he comes with something that only the Confederate President Jefferson Davis would have done. If there was Twitter then. And there's no way around this, when Tim Scott would even denounce him. And you can't get a public apology and somebody, if you claim somebody in the White House did it, how does someone have access to what the president can put out? And why aren't they fired? Why aren't they being walked out like you walked out? Omarosa in your first term, you walked her out. Well, walk somebody out of the White House, if that somebody exists. The reason I don't think you can walk them out is you'd have to open up the Oval Office and walk him out.
- [09:08]
Nicole Wallace
I think that's exactly right. I think it also isn't, it isn't a mask off moment. It is sort of the substance of the administration is state sanctioned racial profiling, asking people for their papers. I mean, that's what's happening in America in Minneapolis. But all over the country you have.
- [09:30]
Reverend Al Sharpton
State sponsored racial profiling. Minneapolis, if you're a certain color or speak a certain language, you're an automatic suspect, even if you're 2 years old. And you also see where they're now saying, oh, let's nationalize elections, we're going to take all of your rights away. All of this inside of one year and a few days of being in office. Clearly the first thing he did when he got in office this time, declare war on diversity, equity and inclusion. Dei that became the top of his agenda. So this is not out of context, this is not a oneoff. And he came in saying this and he came in trying to in many ways execute this as President of the United States. And he was able to get up a lot of that of his following to go along with that until they themselves are saying that he was picking their pockets while he was talking about blacks. And I'm not saying that everyone, I say it often and it's been said before. I'm not saying everyone that voted for Donald Trump's a racist, but every racist voted for Donald Trump because they felt comfortable there.
- [10:40]
Nicole Wallace
Let me ask you this question, cuz I feel like we could talk for two hours about Donald Trump, but what about all the people funding Donald Trump's excesses? You've got companies including Comcast, paid for the destruction of the East Wing. You've got tech executives standing shoulder to shoulder. Tim Cook was in a tux the day after one of the deadly ice shootings in Minnesota. I mean, what do you think it said about the titans of industry that they're standing shoulder to shoulder with Donald Trump?
- [11:13]
Reverend Al Sharpton
It says that they have a tolerance or an engagement themselves, one or the other. At best they tolerate it.
- [11:20]
Nicole Wallace
They either like this, yes.
- [11:22]
Reverend Al Sharpton
At best they tolerate it. At worst, they engage it and entertain it. And they ought not be allowed to have government contracts, government dealing city, state or federal or our consumer dollars. That's why some of us have engaged in trying to, to resurrect the boycott type of infrastructure, picking off some of these companies. You want to finance this, you shouldn't finance it at our dollars. I don't care if you don't love me, but you're not going to use my money to institute and implement hate. You don't ever have to love me, but I'm not going to finance you having this kind of discriminatory atmosphere or fund somebody that is blatantly and openly saying that. And one thing we've not seen is one statement or one tweet from one of the corporate giants that deal with government. We've even seen Tim Scott, I'll repeat, where are the ones that are making all of this money off of this administration that sit around the table with him and cut deals? Where is one CEO standing up saying this is unacceptable and we can no longer participate financially with you if this is your behavior, where's that? Or I'm sorry, they're probably going to see his movie out about Milano.
- [12:36]
Nicole Wallace
Eddie, it is not lightly that I showed that picture, but I am done covering Trump by sanitizing Trump. Access Hollywood happens. And it is a good thing that every time that tape was played, the P word wasn't amplified into people's living. But I'm not sure it was the right thing. Right, it was a good thing. I'm not sure it was the right good thing. When Donald Trump is repugnant, everyone should see what is being done in our name as Americans. Because while he's grifting, while he's lining his pockets with taxpayer dollars and Qatari dollars and Emirati dollars, as has been reported, he's also draws a salary from us, the American people. And this is what he did overnight when most normal people are asleep. He was binging social media, posting again in a manner that if he was a leader in entertainment or sports, the conversation in network news or sports media would be about what's going on with him. But because of the nature of our politics, that's not the conversation today. But this is where we are. This is where we are where of all the important stories, I actually agree with Caroline Levitt. We should be covering the stories of their efforts to deport five year old Liam Ramos. And we'll get to that. We should be covering all the money lining his pockets from foreign governments. We should be covering the debacle of the tariffs and we will. But we're covering this because he posted a picture of President Michelle Obama as apes in our name as Americans today.
- [14:16]
Eddie Glaude
You know, Nicole, I think this is really important in this moment because I think when you show those images, you show what he's doing in our name as Americans, you force a choice. Do you identify with this or do you not? There's no in between. And so it's very clear. It's very in your face. It's very blatant that Donald Trump is a racist and we shouldn't beat around the bush. It's not that he posted a racist image. He's a racist. The evidence is in. There was nothing about the post that was, that I didn't already know about Donald Trump as Rev just laid out. The only difference was his brazen use of an old trope from an era of overt cruelty. And then one has to ask the question, what are the policies that follow from that? Those sets of beliefs, those commitments, who are the people surrounding him who are committed to those same commitments? So when we talk about dei, when we talk about admissions to elite institutions, when we talk about American history, when we talk about, you know, the very ways in which we think about employment, just the trip, the doubling of African American employment, the policy implications of these. Of these beliefs. So I think, let me put it this way, Nicole. I wanted to respond with anger and rage. I responded instead with pity, because I know what the rage and hatred can do in me. But I do know something. Donald Trump is broken. Caroline Levitt is broken. Stephen Miller is broken. Steve Bannon is broken. Kristi Noem is broken. And those broken people with these noxious views are running the damn country.
- [16:03]
Nicole Wallace
I think that's exactly right. I want to ask Vaughn to do something that literally took my breath away today. I want you, Vaughn, to take us through the reporting you did today on the record. Donald Trump's public displays of racism as you compiled it today.
- [16:21]
Vaughn Hilliard
Nicole, I think it's worth going through the list just in the ways in which, if I may, the normalization in terms of not just the response of the country to Donald Trump, and whether it be a racist post or it's more so the hoots and the hollers from crowds of campaign rallies that he has stood in. If you go back to 2016, when he sidestepped disavowing David Duke, for weeks there, he was unwilling to acknowledge the history of David Duke and was unwilling to disavow and push aside his history. If you go back though, to 1975, it was a DOJ civil rights division lawsuit against Trump and his father for alleged discriminatory rental practices targeting Puerto Ricans and African Americans in New York City, that ultimately the Trumps, they settled that DOJ lawsuit. They go to 1989. The Rev was talking about it. The five men that were exonerated as part of the Central Park Five, in which Trump bought a full page ad calling for their execution. If you then fast forward to, of course, during the Obama administration, the birtherism claims that really rose Trump to political relevance. Of course, if you go back to 2022, his dinner at Mar a Lago with Nick Fuentes. But I think that there's other moments where, you know, the repeated calling of Letitia James, Letitia Peekaboo James calling Alvin Bragg, the district attorney, a quote, animal. If you go back, though, also to moments at events that I remember being at in 2023, there was a campaign rally in which he had suggested that he would have been able to negotiate and settle the Civil War. Of course, if you go back in history, just after Abraham Lincoln's election was the best opportunity, I guess if you could say the Crittenden Compromise that was put forward, that could have avoided the Civil War. But what was a part of the Crittenden Compromise, it would have established constitutionally protections for Southern states and every state south of the Missouri compromise line to be allowed to have slavery. And so for the president of the United States, in the posting of this racist video, there is, I think, another element of this in which there is a question about the cognizance of America's racist history and one in which it is tough to really ever extrapolate because, frankly, that sort of a conversation has never taken place with the president of the United States over the last decade of his political relevance.
- [18:59]
Nicole Wallace
Heilman. He does this from a position of historic, not just historic for Trump, but historic for our country, political weakness. 64% of Americans disapprove of Donald Trump. And I think trying to steal the midterm elections isn't exactly the political flex he thinks it is. It's the anti Democratic autocratic flex. Sure. But politically, he looks like a sore loser, which he showed the world he is in 2020 when he lost.
- [19:32]
Right. So that's one question, Nicole, which is kind of why this, why now? I'll come back to that in a second. Just to go back to Rev and Eddie, quickly. He's a racist and has been a racist as far as I could tell, for his entire adult life. Vaughn's slimmed down his number of examples there. The one that I most remember in the context of him as a presidential candidate, where he directly said something, not merely the David Duke thing, but was when he attacked Judge Curiel in the middle of 2016 and said that a federal district court judge who was overseeing some of the fraud cases against him was, was incapable of ruling in that case because of his Mexican heritage. That was like the first time that Republicans, people like Paul Ryan and others who kind of had to confront the fact that he was an out front racist, not, you know, the birtherism thing was obviously racist, but there was just a blatancy to the attack on Judge Curiel that caused, as I said, even a lot of established Republicans to cringe. Of course they didn't eventually walk away from him, but they cringed and some of them denounced him. It's gone on for a long time. So he's a racist. Right? Judge Rev. Al just talked about, we were talking about the companies that have, that are, that are not saying anything, the CEOs, et cetera. There's one word for what they all are. That word is complicit. And the question is, what can voters do about it? They can do some things to Donald Trump in the midterms. They can vote Republicans out of office and then Democrats can do, can investigate Trump and have some power in Washington to try to counter what we've seen in Trump 2.0. But what citizens could do right now, and I know you're a fan of the Scott Galloway unsubscribe like and unsubscribe movement, is to start taking on some of these companies and making them pay a price. That's the thing people can do right now, is to go to the companies that have supported Donald Trump, the companies that have written checks to him, the companies that have been silent in the face of all of these various depredations and start to unsubscribe. I started a few days ago. It's fun. It's fun to go through and look at all the things you're subscribed to.
- [21:40]
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:41]
It feels incredible. It's like you look and see how many of these dumb ass services you're subscribed to, how many of them you don't need to be subscribed to and just to cancel them. It is a great feeling and it is on mass, something that can actually move the needle. And then the last question, which is why is Trump doing this now? Because the culture war has always worked for him. He needs his base to get off again and not be pissed off at him. There are a lot of Republicans and a lot of even members of MAGA who recoiled from what has happened in Minneapolis and Trump is going back, as he often does when he gets out over his skis and starts to suffer political damage, he goes back to the most reliable playbook that he's ever run plays from. And that is a blatantly racist playbook that manages to stir up the animal spirits and prejudices of a lot of people in his base and get them pissed so that they might, despite all their misgivings with him about the economy, about what they've seen in Minneapolis, about Jeffrey Epstein, they might still turn out for Republicans in November because he desperately needs that and he's running out of options. So he's calling this play now. It's appalling, but totally unsurprising.
- [22:50]
All right, no one's going anywhere. We'll have much more on on all of this and whether or not he's crossed a line within his own party, we'll ask that question. Plus, as we mentioned, five year old Liam Ramos, who has unintentionally become the face of Donald Trump's brutal immigration enforcement efforts, is now the subject of more cruelty at development. And a live report from Minneapolis is coming up later in the broadcast. This weekend's super bowl halftime show will be led by an outspoken critic of Donald Trump's immigration policies. We'll preview what to expect from global superstar Bad Bunny. And that's a big question. Why is the Right such a snowflake about Bad Bunny? Of all those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [23:45]
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- [25:48]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Voter for the President supported him, but I really want to apologize. I mean, I'm looking at this awful picture of the Obamas. What an embarrassment to our country. All this man does is tell lies. He is not worthy of the presidency. He takes bribes blatantly and now he's being a racist blatantly. He's pathetic as a president and I just want to apologize to everybody in the country for supporting this rotten man.
- [26:31]
Nicole Wallace
Eddie, I thought of your word pity. You know, I think people have struggled with how to confront a bully and someone who desecrates things that people hold dear. The office of the presidency, the Kennedy center, the prestige of being president and not trying to get rich on the side. Actually not even on the side, but instead of in front of as a higher priority. I wonder what your thoughts are about people who are breaking with him because they pity him, they're embarrassed by him. It feels like a new chapter in people pulling away from him.
- [27:13]
Eddie Glaude
Well, yeah, I think so. But it also reflects the complexity of that kind of Trump Trumpian coalition. When we think about the Venn diagram of the populist movement or the populist energy that informed Trumpism and how it overlapped with Bernie Sanders and what he was talking about, there are some people in that court that overlap that weren't necessarily committed to the white nationalist agenda were not kind of bound to actually very critical of the kind of corporatist greed that drives Trumpism. And so I can imagine that group of Trump supporters having buyer's remorse in this moment. And so we have to understand the kind of complex nature of that coalition. Not all of them are racist, but as Rev said, Trump, all races vote for Trump. It seems to me. So. So we're in that space. But, you know, we always face this moment in the country, Nicole. You know, you know, Du Bois talked about black folk. W.E.B. du Bois talked about black folk having double consciousness. It's really the nation. America has a divided soul. And that divided soul is that we imagine ourselves as a beacon of freedom, and we imagine ourselves as a white republic. And holding those two together has deposited a madness in the heart of the country, and it infects the entire nation. And so we hear it in these cycles, and here we're hearing it in the 250th year of the country. Can you imagine.
- [28:37]
Nicole Wallace
Heilman? I mean, to your point about agency, the thing that attracts me to what Scott Galloway is talking about is I think everyone is in awe and is riveted by what's happening in Minneapolis and Minnesota. And this is to a person, I mean, 35,000 people there have registered as ice watchers. I mean, that is taking a risk of being trained to being on a list. And they're all doing it to protect their neighbors. But the idea of doing something from your keyboard, it's akin to something else. We talked about the Jimmy Kimmel cancellation, where people figured out how to go online and cancel Disney and Hulu, and the response was immediate. I mean, I wonder what you think is safe to hope for with the boycott movement.
- [29:29]
I don't honestly know, Nicole. I don't know what's safe to hope for. I think I'll tell you what is safe to hope for. One thing that's really safe to hope for is that you will get the benefit, the sense of uplift, of doing the right thing. You look at so many of us have gotten onto ChatGPT over the course of the last couple of years, and you look at the behavior of open AI, you look at the way that Sam Altman and some of the other people there, the money that they pumped into the Trump administration, the way they've changed their posture on AI regulation. They. There's a video circulating today, not by Scott Galloway, but. But by kindred spirit that basically says, you know, they're writing huge checks to Trump. They want Trump to be the sole arbiter of the most powerful technology of the modern age. And they are also equipping now ICE is using their products to recruit and screen their new hires and perhaps for more nefarious things. And you look at that and say, I won't use the F word here, even though I've somehow managed to get through all my time on msnbc without saying it. But I'm very close here to saying F that I don't, I don't want to be part of that. And you, you will certainly feel good about that if it it how many people will ultimately get on this bandwagon. I know this movement is gathering steam really quickly just by watching Scott's post, but I don't know what the ultimate impact of it is. But I do know that if you look at the Hulu Disney example, when it got big enough, there was an effect. And we've seen that these kind of economic boycotts in the past and Rev can speak to this when they get large enough and when they get enough momentum and when it looks like it's going to actually do damage to, to the bottom line. There has been a history in which corporations have been, have been moved by that kind of self interest. So I will say I'm doing the things that I'm doing in this area, which is not total, but every day I'm unsubscribing from things. And the more I do it, the more I like it. And the more I like it, the more I do it. And I'll tell you that if enough people start to get that spirit, there can be some impact. But I'm not doing it because I think ultimately I can't say that there's a clear prediction of what, of what that's going to end, what that's going to lead to. But I do know, but I do know that I get to sleep a little sounder every night knowing that money that I'm spending is not going into the pockets of companies that are complicit with what we're seeing in the country right now.
- [31:56]
Right. It just, it's, it's agency. It's this thing like, I don't have to wait till November. I can do something tonight. I can do something right. You know, for my. No, it does. It feels great. John Heilman, Eddie Glad, Vaughn Hilliard, thank you all so much for starting us off. The Rev sticks around. After the break for us, we'll turn back to Minneapolis. Our residents there say the immigration enforcement activity is as bad as ever, even as the Trump administration is saying something different and has pledged an ICE drawdown. We'll have a live report next.
- [32:29]
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Nicole Wallace
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Restrictions apply.
- [32:58]
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- [33:30]
Nicole Wallace
This week on my podcast why Is this Happening? I'm joined by MSNOW's Jacob Soboroff and.
- [33:34]
Alex Wagner to discuss what we saw in Minneapolis.
- [33:37]
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It was so emotional to see the goodness and the organization and the bravery of these strangers, hoping that they can help someone in a way that will maybe redirect the course of their life or their immediate, you know, next couple weeks.
- [33:50]
Nicole Wallace
As much as the Border Patrol has.
- [33:52]
Evolved their tactics, I've seen them evolve.
- [33:54]
On the other side of the nonviolent resistance since la.
- [33:57]
That's this week on why Is this Happening?
- [33:59]
Search for why is this Happening?
- [34:00]
Wherever you're listening right now and follow. In case anyone for a moment believe that Donald Trump's claim that his administration would be having a, quote, little bit of a softer touch on immigration and the announcement of a so called drawdown of ICE agents actually meant what it was supposed to mean, the Trump administration has made it abundantly clear that while its rhetoric might change when it comes to the cruelty for them, it is full steam ahead. Minnesota Public Radio is reporting that the Trump administration has requested expedited deportation proceedings against the family of five year old Liam Conejo Ramos, a five year old little boy in the blue bunny hat who ICE detained and attempted to use to help lure out members of his family for arrest, NPR reports that the government has filed a motion to end asylum claims, a motion that the family's lawyer calls retaliatory despite Trump's loudly trumpeted ICE drawdown as his poll numbers cratered in response to the overwhelming public backlash in response to ICE violence being there. According to the people of Minnesota and Minneapolis, in reality the ICE crackdown is very much ongoing. New York Times has this reporting, quote, to many Minnesotans it was as if there had been no reduction in agents at all. One community organizer in Minneapolis said that sightings of Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents on her signal chats were as frequent as ever. Teams of ICE personnel were spotted in the suburbs making arrests near schools and in homes, local officials said. Brenda Lewis, the superintendent of Friedley Public Schools outside Minneapolis, said she was feeling a bit hopeful Wednesday morning after Mr. Homan's announcement of a drawdown of agents. Instead, she said, all hell broke loose. Six ICE vehicles drove back and forth in front of an elementary school and a school board member was followed from her home. At the end of the day, she said immigration agents were once again nearby during school dismissal. I want to bring into our coverage former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI, national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg's here. He's also a fellow at Lawfare. The Rev Al is still here with us. We're going to start, though, with Namdi Igwanwu on the ground outside the governor's mansion in Minnesota. Nnamdi, what are you reporting today?
- [36:22]
Namdi Igwanwu
Well, I think just building off what you laid out. You know, I've been struck by how the reaction to some of the developments we've heard and seen this week has showcased the lack of faith people here have in the federal government. You know, you start with the announcement about the reduction of several hundred agents here. And that's something that we expected would be met with praise. But when we spoke to several protesters, just residents here, they are skeptical. They say that things don't feel different. So it's hard to believe that there's going to be that reduction and a step in the good direction when the on the ground assessment is that things are still the same. We're still hearing from ICE observers that their group chats are lighting up with sightings of ICE vehicles. We're still going by schools and seeing people stationed out there with their ICE whistles prepared to respond to any potential sightings. So what we're seeing here on the ground is that despite you know, the rhetoric we're hearing from Tom Homan, people here are still in that hyper vigilant state that we've been hearing about for weeks now. You know, that extends to the development we saw today, which was one, you know, for weeks state lawmakers here had been calling for the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the state's primary investigative body, to be allowed to join the investigation into the shooting of Renee Good and Alex Freddie. We saw that the Minnesota Star Tribune reported that the FBI was set to announce a joint investigation. Well, when we talk people on the ground here, what they tell us is again, a step in the right direction, but I'll believe it When I see it. And more than that, why did it take this long? Why. Why was there a delay in allowing the state investigators to join in on this process in the first place? I. I want to play for you a conversation I had with one resident just moments ago about this development so you can get an idea of just how skeptical people here still are. Faith that this will be an impartial investigation. Tell me about. Tell me about it.
- [38:00]
Nicole Wallace
That's a pilot caca. Until they release all of the evidence.
- [38:07]
To our bca, then I won't believe a thing they say. I never have and I never will. You know, the government right now is a mess. There's almost no one I can trust from the top down. Am I happy with my government here? Not necessarily because of the frauds that are going on, et cetera, but still.
- [38:29]
It'S just not right.
- [38:32]
Let us do what we need to do to take care of ourselves.
- [38:37]
Namdi Igwanwu
And Nicole, we are outside the governor's mansion here because in a couple hours we expect a protest to take place here. The message from the protesters is simple. 700 isn't enough. We want you to push for that 40 full federal surge to end Mohammedi.
- [38:50]
Nicole Wallace
Stay with us. Michael Feinberg, let me tell you what's happening at DOJ on the sort of end of the rule of law side of this story. Politico is reporting that military lawyers are taking over the prosecution duties in federal criminal cases stemming from the Trump administration's immigration crackdown in Minnesota. JAG attorneys signed on to replace civilian prosecutors in several cases Wednesday as the beleaguered U.S. attorney's office there struggles with the massive of criminal and immigration cases and the resignations of a slew of experienced lawyers. For now, the military lawyers are picking up many of the cases AG Pambandi announced last week against protesters accused of assaulting or impeding federal agents. Seems like there are a million things wrong with that. I'll let you start.
- [39:40]
Michael Feinberg
Yeah. So there is statutory authority for this sort of shift in personnel to occur. It's not blatantly illegal. It's not, not even a huge violation of norms. But we have to look at this in the larger context of what's happening at doj. And the only reason that this is necessary is because the Justice Department is being conducted in such an unprofessional and unethical manner that every attorney upon whom they would normally rely has resigned in protest. That should be a three alarm fire for the citizenry to realize that their institutions of government are not just lacking in basic decency. As we saw in your last segment, but also not functioning on a day to day basis upon which the country depends. This is such an abnormal situation and it's bad enough that it is happening to doj, but we also should not divorce it from every other failure of institutions that we are seeing now on a daily basis and have been for the past year. The machine, the wheels are falling off.
- [41:01]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And it's, it's, it's surreal to watch it. It's usually too slow to detect, but this is one of those big lurches that you can see. Namdi, thank you for your incredible reporting. Thank you for being on the ground for us. It's invaluable. Michael and the rev stick around. We'll be right back. Michael Feinberg, let me read you this other I wanted to quote Donald Trump beauty about doj. The Trump administration's mass deportation campaign is about to receive a forceful boost, with the Justice Department planning to quickly and automatically dismiss immigration cases on appeal. This low profile administrative tweak would give federal agents permission to immediately arrest more immigrants under the pretext that their cases are suddenly deemed finalized. And the move comes just as the Department of Homeland Security is buying warehouses across the country to develop a network of mass detention camps. Jennifer Payton, who was the assistant chief immigration judge in Chicago until last summer, called the plans yet another deprivation of due process for non citizens who are already getting the short end of the stick. How is this legal? I thought the Supreme Court in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia ruled 9 nothing that Donald Trump could not deny asylum seekers and immigrants their due process rights.
- [42:19]
Michael Feinberg
The Supreme Court is always inclined to decide cases on as narrow basis as it can. And this particular Supreme Court has taken that to a new extreme. So in many cases, they're leaving open other avenues by which this administration can accomplish the same things through different means. You know, to me at least, the legal aspect of this is the least compelling because lawyers, I myself was one, are particularly adept at finding alternate paths to doing things when their original avenues were foreclosed. I don't, in focusing on the case law and the statutory authorization, want us to lose sight of the sheer, for lack of a better term, moral horror of using the Department of Justice, who is one of my colleagues yesterday told me is the only department in the United States government with a moral imperative in its title to use that department to set up. It doesn't matter what we call them, whether they're detention camps, whether they're relocation camps, whether they're concentration camps, whatever we describe them as they are physical manifestations of the exact opposite things our country is supposed to stand for. This is a stain on our history.
- [44:04]
Nicole Wallace
With a heinous, heinous echo in history. Stay with us. I'm going to give the Rev the last word on the other side of a very short break. Rev, what do you see when you look at the landscape that gives you optimism?
- [44:21]
Reverend Al Sharpton
I think that it's easy to be pessimistic.
- [44:25]
Nicole Wallace
Very easy.
- [44:26]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Certainly understandable. I mean, we're seeing in the last year people that rioted at the Capitol January 6th. Pardon, we normalize that yet people that protest can be killed. And we say only the feds are going to investigate it, leave it alone. State we've seen the whole question of mergers of companies. But you've got to do what I want to do, otherwise your mergers are not approved. We've seen now the president saying, you've got to name Penn Station after me at Dulles Airport or you're not getting federal refunds. And we're acting like all this is normal. And I could go on with the list. Another hour of President and Mrs. Obama. What gives me the hope and optimism is I remember that when we when I was a young activist just getting involved, I was in my teens and I went home one day saying to my mother is too much. She said, I grew up in the back of the bus by law. I couldn't ride the front where I was born. I couldn't go to certain schools. You're complaining you got more to work with than I did. Now go to work.
- [45:31]
Nicole Wallace
Go to work, go to work, go to work. All right, good advice. Go to work, everybody. Rob, thank you for being here for the hour. Michael Feinberg, thank you for spending time with us today. Reverend we'll be watching this weekend as we always do. Saturday at 5pm Eastern you have Maryland Governor Westmore on politics Nation after the break, how Democrats are gearing up for Donald Trump's attempt to steal the midterms. The next hour of Deadline White House starts after a quick break.
- [45:57]
Michael Feinberg
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