← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“The ongoing reflecting pool saga”
00:43:18
June 25, 2026; 5pm: Nicolle Wallace and friends discuss the ongoing debacle of the newly renovated and algae ridden Lincoln Reflecting Pool. So far, this debacle has cost at least $16.4 million dollars, which is just a fraction of what Trump plans to spend to complete vanity projects all over Washington D.C.
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- [00:00]
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Reporter 1
Well I'm walking down the length of the reflecting pool
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Host
right now to see if I can
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Reporter 1
find exactly where this 300 foot slit is that Donald Trump claims is running
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Host
down the middle of this pool.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I have looked up and down this pool so far. I don't see any sign of any slit.
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Reporter 1
I do see a lot of paint
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Congressman Robert Garcia
coming up, but no sign of a
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Reporter 1
300 foot long slit or or lots
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Congressman Robert Garcia
of slits as he's been talking about. Again, shocker here.
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Reporter 1
I'm sorry to report what he's saying is 100% pure.
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Host
Hi again Everybody. It's now 5 o' clock in the east and a surprise to probably no one. The dubious claim that Donald Trump made this week about a massive gash or slash in the lining of the reflecting pool does not seem to exist. But Donald Trump can't handle the truth that the company he hired in a no bid contract to redo the coding of the pool did such a bad job that it fell apart. So instead he has drummed up coverage and outrage over the week about vandalism. Vandalism he says happened, but provides no proof of happening. The entire debacle has so far cost at least $16.4 million. As well as changing the atmosphere around the refle. There are security cameras there now and a lot of law enforcement. But that cost, that price tag is just a fraction of what Donald Trump plans to charge taxpayers plans to spend to complete all of the vanity projects all over Washington D.C. new York Times this morning in its newsletter put it like this. What has been made public about the cost of all the construction going on is, quote, about as clear as the algae clouded water in the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool. So a group of New York Times reporters went out to get some answers. A detailed analysis finds this quote, there will be significant taxpayer expense associated with all of Donald Trump's building and renovation initiatives. The 18 major construction projects Trump has undertaken during his second term come with a potential cost of more than $1 billion. There's the ballroom Trump is building on the spot where he tore down the historic East Wing. That is estimated to cost at least $400 million. There's a bunker planned for underneath the ballroom, along with more security enhancements. That comes to another $400 million. So $800 million total for destroying the East Room. Renovations to the Kennedy center come in at $250 million. And there are many more projects Trump has talked about and waved posters around about all over the nation's capital. As to what the White House has to say about any of this. The Times reports this quote, a White House spokesman to answer specific questions about the funding for many of the president's projects, but suggested that taxpayer money was likely to be used for most of them and said that the continuing cost of the project, such as repair, replacement and maintenance, would fall to various agencies. The US Taxpayer picking up the tab when it comes to Donald Trump's obsession with his vanity projects is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. New York Times White House correspondent Luke Broadwater is back. His byline is on that Times reporting we read from. Also joining us, Tommy Vitor. He's co founder of Crooked Media and co host of the political podcast Pod Save America and Pod Save the World. I want to start with you, Luke. This is such great reporting, such irrefutable evidence of Donald Trump doing what I think folks who have been covering him for longer than any of us say he has always done, which is to leave someone else with the tab or to leave his bills unpaid. In this case with the ballroom. There's such copious public statements about how donors had paid for it and donors had chipped in, but the the ballroom and the bunker seemed to come to $800 million. I think that's the largest single item on your list. Explain.
- [05:18]
Luke Broadwater
Right. Yeah. Well, total items that we were able to tally UP is over 1 $1.2 billion and potential impact to the taxpayer. And I actually think that's only about half of it and maybe even might even be a third of it. There are so many projects on the list where the White House wouldn't give us any information about the costs. So we just listed those as unclear. And some of Those could be even more expensive than how much money the taxpayers are going to have to put up for the ballroom and all the security elements of it. And when you look at what Donald Trump has repeatedly said about the ballroom, he said that it would be 100% funded by the. By the is private donors. But many of those are secret donors. We don't know exactly who they are, how much they gave. But then if you talk to the Secret Service, they'll tell you that, well, actually the taxpayers are in fact paying for the drone port and the hardening of the windows and all the security elements that are connected to the ballroom. So you can't just say, well, a private donor is paying for this section, but the taxpayer is paying for that. It's all commingled. And the idea that it was ever going to all be paid for in private donations is not accurate. He has promised that private donations would pay for other projects, including the Triumphal Arch. We know that taxpayer money is going to that project as well. He has said that perhaps private donations would pay for the fancy new golf course he wants to build down by the Potomac. We don't know what the potential impact of that is, but we've heard estimates that hundreds of millions of dollars will be spent down there. So again, we're seeing a spending spree on construction projects. Like no other president in history before has, has dedicated this much time and effort to building new projects that he fancies.
- [07:13]
Host
I mean, Luke, the problems seem to be magnified by the debacle at the Reflecting Pool, which is a relatively simple. I mean, you don't have to build a new building where a historic one stood. You don't need to erect a secure bunker underneath. You simply had to. Trump's aim at least was to make it quote American Flag Blue. And that was an absolute. The words that I want to use I can't say on tv. That was an absolute debacle. And it was a combination of no big contracts, lies, sort of cheap approach to materials. It would seem, then the remediation didn't seem to be up to snuff. It seemed to destroy and erode the materials placed in the reflecting pool to begin with. I mean, what sort of quality control? It's not just the amount of money that taxpayers will be out if these projects go forward. It's the quality of the work. If you take the Reflecting Pool as a microcosm of it absolutely sucks.
- [08:18]
Luke Broadwater
It really is an illustrative example, right? It starts off with a promise of a very low amount of money, only $1.8 million, right, to do this big project, turns out it's actually going to be more than 16 million and costs may continue to rise. So there you have them estimating, you know, 1, 110 of the actual cost or so forth. Then you see, because of the rush nature of the project, they bypass all the normal reviews, right? This doesn't go before the Fine Arts Commission, which should analyze the color and whether the color is correct and any esthetic changes. It doesn't go before other review, review panels. There's no outside experts who weigh in and say this should be done like this. Instead, it goes through a no bid contract. There aren't competitive bids. We're not hearing from different contractors on how they would do it. And the rush nature leads to error after error. And we're seeing that with the algae, with the paint peeling up, with the bott, the pool coming up. And then on top of that, then the President makes up claims, right, to cover up the embarrassment. You know, maybe vandals dumped all this fertilizer in the pool and that's the cause of the algae. You know, he, he, he, he says things that are obviously false to cover up for his own mistakes.
- [09:41]
Host
Tommy, I feel like I've been waiting 11 years for a Trump story that you could literally just walk up to and understand with your own eyes. You didn't have to believe, you could believe the prize. You can press. We had nothing to do with it, right? And anyone who voted for Trump and thinks it's a nice idea that he's sprucing up the reflecting pool, I hadn't heard that it was in need of the kinds of things that he's doing to it. I think people in D.C. always welcome investment in the monuments, but you could walk up to it and you could see that it is the things Trump added to it that are floating on the surface. The cheap blue lining, because he's talked about it so much, it is, quote, American flag blue. It fell apart. It is what's floating. And then the lies and the cameras and the police state around it are all a result of the lies that Trump is telling about how it was destroyed. I mean, I feel like this is a story that sometimes people put at the end, right? We'll deal with the war, we'll deal with the economy. Massive, huge stories with massive implications. But if we've been looking for 11 years of a story that shows how corrupt Trump is, how half assed he is, how everything he touches literally turns to algae and falls apart, the lies that he Tells to cover up the algae and the things that are falling apart. The story literally has everything.
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Tommy Vietor
Yeah, it's pretty self explanatory. I mean, look, you know, put in a little money into D.C. to spruce it up for the 250th anniversary. Not the crazy idea, but $1.2 billion.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
That's.
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Tommy Vietor
That's so much money. And as a political matter, this is happening at a time when every single poll is Americans telling you they are furious about costs, they're furious about inflation, they don't trust Trump's handling of the economy, and they're just pissed at the world. And what they're reading about is the reflecting pool. And I get like, my first instinct when I hear about this stuff is like, I don't care. You know, can we, like, I want to talk about the disaster in Iran or like, whatever else. But then he forces us to care because he's doing press conference after press conference, you know, showing us the size of the reflecting pool and then telling all these lies about the contract he got. Now we're arresting Olympians, former Olympians, for like leaning down and maybe touching a piece of the pool that broke up and floated away. So it's insane. Now he's telling this story about some one with a giant box cutter. The box cutter, initially the slash was 200ft, then it was 300ft, now it's 350ft. So like, the lie is just growing and metastasizing and it's just like, buddy, what are you doing here? Like, what? Why are you so focused on this? I just don't understand the guilt. The 5 million to guild the statues, that's the one that really gets me. Who is that for?
- [12:17]
Host
You know, it's so funny. Like, I know exactly what kind of staffer you were and that I was by what you just said. Like, you just want to get back to Iran and geopolitics and I just want to talk about the statues. But the serious point in there is that, and this to me also gets it. At Trump's political predicament, no one would be against sprucing up DC for the 250th. But it's next week, it's here. And the acts are no show. The pond is green turning other colors, but only under police, state security and extreme measures. The bunker, I mean, all my construction experience is limited to redoing a child's bathroom. But I don't know how you build a bunker. I mean, what Luke, is the. Is the. Like, what are they thinking? This is the only proof point to people who think that Trump will break the Constitution and stay there for forever. Like, who's going to live in the bunker?
- [13:20]
Luke Broadwater
Yeah, and these things are really his main focus. I mean, when you look at all the things that are on the President's agenda, he always steers the conversation back to his construction projects because this is actually what's on his mind all the time, is what he's thinking about. He said that about the reflecting pool. He, he didn't use the word obsessed, but he said something along the lines of I got really, really into it. And the more I got into it, the more I wanted to do with it. And I went down there and then he drove the beast on it and he kept going down multiple times to inspect the reflecting, like his top priority at the moment. Meanwhile, as you rightly point out, we have real serious matters with our economy and overseas. But this is like the reason we're reporting on this is because these are the, this is the focus of this President. It's not that this is the main thing that we care about as reporters. This is what the President cares about more than anything else. And so that's why we have to, we have to focus on this. This is what he's spending his time, his energy and the taxpayers money on.
- [14:18]
Host
I mean, Tommy, I think I care about it more than the two of you combined. But I guess what I would say is I care about it because it is the most effective lens through which you can say to someone who thought his second term was a good idea, he doesn't care about you. He doesn't care about your $5.50 gas. He doesn't care that chicken breasts are $14. He doesn't care that milk is 10 bucks. He doesn't care about any of that. Look at what is in his hands. It is a crumpled up. The small sizes look like they're on thin paper. And then he has the poster board, he has this one that I find the most befuddling thing he's ever held up. And that is the pool next to a bunch of buildings. I mean, this is a window into not just how off his game Trump is, but that the people around him are literally just like handing spoons to the king who just wants to like eat a Slurpee all day. It is a window into the madness that is all around this Oval Office.
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Tommy Vietor
It is a window into the madness. Also, look in terms of the construction. The ballroom is also one of the primary avenues through which you can bribe him.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Right.
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Tommy Vietor
If You're a tech company. If you're a donor, if you're someone who wants something from the government, you give a million dollars to the ballroom and boy, all of a sudden you're not testifying before Congress in an instance that you didn't want to, like Mark Zuckerberg or Sundar Pichai or you're getting some sweetheart deal. Also, I mean, look, you and I both work for presidents who took the job very seriously. It sounds like these days Donald Trump gets into the Oval office at like 10:30. It does kind of like a rolling bull session. Probably doesn't take the PDB anymore. Like, Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan in their new book talk about staffers walking into the Oval Office and finding Donald Trump literally gluing like tacky gold stuff onto the fireplace. Like, this is what the man does when people come into the Oval Office. He takes out a laser pointer and he shows them, you know, paintings and stu and talks about the quality of the paint that was used. Like, this is genuinely what he cares about. He should be an interior decorator. He'd be great at it for some people in some places. But like, I've heard stories of him calling up leaders in the Gulf saying, hey, where'd you get that couch? I want to buy one. Like, literally, stuff like this is happening. Meanwhile, we have these, like, massive national security crisis, a war in Iran, an economic, you know, inflation problem, and he's just awol.
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Host
Yeah, I've actually heard those stories too. When he traveled, if he was in an embassy residence, he would either take or want to take the things home with him. I mean, he's really got sort of a klepto strain. But I wonder, Luke Broadwater, on the more serious side of this, where does the money go when people pay the bribe? I mean, a lot of companies paid money toward the East Wing. What did the checks get deposited into?
- [17:06]
Luke Broadwater
Well, it's again, it's very hard to trace this money because it goes into a trust run. And Meredith o', Rourke, who is Donald Trump's private campaign fundraiser, is really the one soliciting the money here. She's not an employee of the government, but she's has a understanding with the National Park Service, with this national trust that the money, all the donations will go into this trust. They do have to file a 990 at some point. And we're going to see that report. I've been told it may not disclose all the donors names. It may just say the total amount of money raised. So we don't Exactly. Know who's giving money to the president, who's currying favor with the president. They've released a partial list of donors without how much money they gave, but they've allowed the donors to remain anonymous if they want to. So it's only those donors who want their name out there that are on that list. So who knows who the other donors are. So, again, this is unlike, you know, donating to a campaign where they would have to list their name. It really is a dark money way to give a gift to the president, and then who knows what that person expects in return? It's an open question, and I don't know if we'll ever get to the bottom of it. We will probably never know exactly who gave all this money.
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Host
I mean, Tommy, the list of people getting pardons is probably a decent place to start asking questions. I want to, though, take your point about the national tragedy that is this story. This is from our friend Tom Nichols, writing this in the Atlantic. Trump is making the 250th small. Trump cannot comprehend patriotism, the love of one's country. Instead, he defaults to nationalism, the sour and hostile glorification of one's own nation over everyone else's. He does this because he views the world the way he apparently has viewed most things in his life as a competition. It's not enough for him to love America. The United States is not just great. It must be better than all those other places. It has better people, a better military, a better economy. Some of that is true. But a patriot celebrates love of country for its own sake, not as a continual comparison with others. The US Is worth the loyalty of every citizen because of what it is, because of its eternal character. But for Trump, it is great only insofar as it is superior to some other places, because otherwise other nations are always laughing, taking advantage, and disrespecting us. I guess what I would say to our first sort of collective point of agreement about it's fine to spruce up the monuments. It's fine to spruce up the monuments if they are done out of patriotism. You know, I think that's the point Tom was making. They were not done out of patriotism. They were done out of nationalism. They were done because Trump used them as an extension. Extension of sort of the Mar A Lago property line. And he is gilding and in his way, I guess, sprucing up things because he thinks they're his.
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Tommy Vietor
Yeah, I mean, The. The. The 200th anniversary celebration that he's putting on has become A celebration of maga. I mean, we saw, I think, Sean Duffy last night talk about how, you know, artists who had canceled. He called them all libtards. I mean, there's no better signal that this is an event for them and not for the rest of us. And by the way, no better vindication of the artists who canceled than being called libtards by a cabinet secretary. You know, that sort of language should be beneath them. But I don't know about YouTube. Like, look, I've become addicted to watching World cup soccer games over the last couple weeks. And part of it is the games are fun, but a lot of it is also just the videos of all the foreign fans coming to the United States and going to Waffle House for the first time and losing their mind. And you've got, like, a guy from the Congo surrounded by fans from Colombia singing his national anthem. And then at the end, they all jump together and celebrate. And it's like beautiful celebration of the melding of cultures and people and coming together and, like, unifying. And that's what the 250th anniversary could be. It's what it should be. But instead, it's become this kind of Trumpian thing. Of course.
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Host
Of course, Luke, it's incredible reporting anyone that hasn't gotten through it. I mean, and to your point, it's devastating for Trump based on what we know. And there's more that we don't know. Did you get a We'll get back to you on any of the black boxes?
- [21:26]
Luke Broadwater
No, they weren't helpful. This administration wasn't forthcoming and providing information for this article, so we had to dig and go through budget documents and spending documents to try to determine exactly what the costs were. And we'll keep updating it. I mean, eventually they're going to have to say how much the triumphal arch costs and, and the Garden of Heroes cost and all these other projects. Eventually there'll be a price tag and somebody will get paid to do that work. Right. So we're going to keep keep tallying it up. And, and just to your earlier point about the 250th anniversary, you know, there is a congressional bipartisan commission that is supposed to be running nonpartisan events, and they have a concert that they're doing that people didn't back out of. But when Donald Trump took office the second time, he created his own private entity through an executive order to run Freedom250 as almost as a rival to the American250 organization that was set up by Congress. And so that's the group that's putting on these events and the artists are backing out of and that that has sort of taken the lead on these festivities. And that's why you see people wanting to back out and not be associated with something they see as so partisan.
- [22:42]
Host
Yeah. And Trump proves them right at every turn. When you come back, though, you have to explain to me how anyone's going to drive under his arch if the water can't stay in his pool. To be continued. Luke Browder, Tommy Vitor, thank you so much for starting us off. When we come back, the talk top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee is demanding answers about all these projects, the rising cost to taxpayers from Donald Trump's vanity efforts and the no big contracts Trump, Trump has handed out to enrich his political cronies. Congressman Robert Garcia is our next guest on this. Also ahead, as we've been discussing all the things Donald Trump is focused on, every single one, they do nothing, nothing. None of these projects do anything to bring down the stage, skyrocketing cost of living and everything people have to buy in their ordinary lives. Inflation is rising at its fastest pace in three years. And Trump's answer is building monuments to himself while making it harder for you to vote, literally. Trump's lousy economy later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
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- [25:01]
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Subscribe to Ms. Now Premium on Apple Podcasts. Just quote the latest example of stunning waste, fraud and abuse. That's how ranking member of the House Oversight Committee Congressman Robert Garcia describes the failed renovation of the reflecting pool. He does that in a letter to the two construction firms who worked on the project, demanding answers from them. Quote, the Trump administration skirted standard contracting practices to award non competitive contracts to Trump donors and acquaintances, including yourself, to beautify the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool. Now, as the reflecting pool's new paint flakes off in chunks and water is consumed by algae, it appears those taxpayer dollars have been flushed down the drain. While Americans struggle to afford basic necessities amid the economic turmoil sowed by the Trump administration, I demand information and documents to understand how this egregious waste of taxpayer dollars was allowed to occur. Congressman Garcia joins us right now. This is the insult on top of the injury or the sort of tragedy wrapped in a humiliation that the reflecting pool was defaced by Trump cronies and the taxpayers are on the hook for the bill. Do you have a plan for getting the taxpayers dollars back?
- [26:27]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Absolutely. And it really starts with accountability and asking the right questions. This whole pool renovation has been a complete and utter disaster. And President Trump is clearly the biggest liar in the history of American politics. To say that somehow this was vandalism is a joke. Everyone knows this. Everyone has eyes. They can see what's happened. They see the algae. They've seen the National Guard deployed to arrest civilians of the algae, the paint, everything coming out of the water. I mean, what is just a horrific job. This has been, and this is all, of course, a Donald Trump vanity project. He's going around destroying the White House, destroying the reflecting pool, building an arch to himself. And it's important for there to be accountability because if you're Donald Trump and you don't want to answer questions, the companies that are doing the work absolutely are going to answer the questions. And so we have very serious questions about what was negotiated, why the job is done so poorly, what was promised. And we expect both of these companies, which we know have close ties to Trump in particular, one being a serious Trump donor. We expect answers.
- [27:39]
Host
Let me just deal with the disinformation around the debacle because this, this does seem dangerous to civilians who happen upon the reflecting Pool just as tourists with their families and are now ensnared in his disinformation campaign to avoid embarrassment around what New York Times reporters just said was the most important thing to him. So here he is attesting to why it could never be vandalized and then reversing himself.
- [28:09]
Congressman Robert Garcia
This will last for at least 50
- [28:10]
Luke Broadwater
years and you'll never have a leak.
- [28:12]
Host
It's very strong.
- [28:13]
Congressman Robert Garcia
You couldn't if you had a knife.
- [28:15]
Luke Broadwater
I don't want to give it anybody ideas. If you had a knife, you can't even cut it.
- [28:19]
Congressman Robert Garcia
So strong, so powerful.
- [28:20]
Luke Broadwater
It's like powerful rubber.
- [28:22]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Are the contractors who did the initial
- [28:24]
Host
work with a reflecting pool, are they to blame for the current condition or is it.
- [28:28]
Luke Broadwater
No, we had vandalism, vandals. You know, we have 100 and we
- [28:32]
Congressman Robert Garcia
have a, I think 290, 300 foot
- [28:36]
Luke Broadwater
slit right through it.
- [28:38]
Host
Probably a box cutter or a knife of some kind. Sue Carnes, you have Trump speaking in more detail about, quote, so strong, powerful rubber than he's ever discussed US Intelligence or national security. He has such specific knowledge of what has been sold to him by his friend or his donor. And then he comes out without any, you know, awareness that he said something totally contradictory the day before and says, we have a 290 foot slip, probably a box cutter. I mean, what do you do with that?
- [29:13]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Well, first I hope that once and for all the American people realize what, what, what a liar and con man Donald Trump is. I mean, this is all part of his con, it's all part of his corruption. It's giving no bid contracts that went through no public process to friends and donors. And then of course, when the project, of course, is a complete failure, which it is, he blames vandalism. That we know there's no evidence of that actually happened, no evidence of vandalism. And in fact, what he's saying happened, and he just said, of course a few days ago was impossible. And so look, these are just lies. And at the end of the day, what people involved in these contracts need to understand is that they are going to be held accountable. If you are working with this corrupt administration to deface our monuments, you are not going through a proper process. We're going to have questions for you. And these two companies have a responsibility to respond to the Congress. That's exactly what we expect from them.
- [30:13]
Host
I mean, let me ask you about public safety. I mean, this is the reflecting pool. It's sacred, it's special. But Trump will be gone in two years and it can be restored. He wants to build structures that, if they're done as shoddily, could harm people. He wants to build arches. He wants to erect other things like what Is the power of Congress to intervene and make sure that the contracts are awarded to people who won't endanger visitors or residents of the nation's capital?
- [30:41]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Well, I think the safety issue is really a huge concern. I mean, one, they're dumping all sorts of chemicals into the pool. We already know that there's National Guard that are guarding it with wildlife, of course, are being impacted. God knows what the impact could be to, to humans for whatever they're putting in the pool. We know that sometimes folks are in the pool or fall into the pool. We have no idea, because there's actually no public process. And then now you're thinking, he's building this huge ballroom which has gone through no public process. Who's building it? What are the safety concerns? Is it actually safe? We have no idea. And this is all going to be in this huge structure where there are going to be apparently thousands of people that Donald Trump is going to somehow entertain. And so all of these questions around his real destruction of these monuments, whether it is the arch, whether it's the ballroom, whether it's, look, what he wanted to do at the Kennedy center, the pool. We, as oversight Democrats, we are committed to investigating every single one of these monuments and their destruction. And all of those involved, all the contractors, all the businesses, all of Donald Trump's friends, all the cronies and donors, you need to understand that Congress, we are going to ask all the questions, and you're going to be left answering these questions. So do the right thing. Provide the information, and we deserve, and the American public, more importantly, deserve all the right answers.
- [32:01]
Host
I mean, look, it's the same committee that got farther in the Epstein investigation than anyone thought. I mean, do you, do you have bipartisan buy in to being accountable for the taxpayer dollars on all of these ostentatious projects? And, and is, are those conversations underway?
- [32:21]
Congressman Robert Garcia
The conversations are underway. In fact, we hope in the next few days. We do have some, I think, some pretty significant actions that are, we are working on to really kind of put all of these monuments in the process they've all gone through together. We are going to be looking at all of these monuments and the process that really occurred, who Donald Trump was actually speaking with, what were the contracts, why we don't have those, why there's been no public access. We know that none of them have gone through the appropriate reviews. And so oversight Democrats are going with the same intensity that we've been working on. Whether it's Jeffrey Epstein or other Trump family corruption, we're going to protect America's treasures. These are buildings, these are facilities that are accessible and are public. They're supposed to be for the American people. Donald Trump does not own them. And so they need to continue to be places where families can gather and be safe. And I think the reason why across this country people are paying attention is because they know these places. They've been to them, they've seen them. And so it's impacting people and families in a real way. And we're going to hold these companies accountable.
- [33:26]
Host
Congressman Robert Garcia, we'll stay on top of this story. Thank you for your time today. When we come back, it's being described as a moral abomination. Donald Trump's inability or unwillingness to do anything to deal with the thing people say is hurting them more than anything. And that is the high cost of living for American families. We learned today just how fast prices are rising. I'll have that reporting for you after a short break.
- [33:55]
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- [35:12]
Luke Broadwater
Trump has been president for 18 months. And while he and his advisors love to blame Joe Biden. Joe Biden. Joe Biden for rising costs, Americans elected him to lower costs. He's been at it for 18 months. He's raised costs for Everybody shredded the safety net meant to catch people during tough times. This Trump economy isn't just bad for me, it's a moral abomination. This is bigger than politics. It's about humanity.
- [35:43]
Host
That was Senator Raphael Warnock blasting Donald Trump's handling of the very issue that catapulted him back into the White House. Trump added an exclamation point to that moral abomination, as Senator Warnock describes it, when he canceled the signing for a bipartisan housing affordability bill yesterday. And signs today that the economic pain Americans are feeling is not easing anytime soon. Inflation saw the biggest increase in three years, reaching over 4% in large part due to Donald Trump's very deeply unpopular war with Iran. Trump is now desperate to play the blame game for why Americans feel bad about the economy and face financial strains in their lives. He called on his Justice Department to investigate the oil companies, to investigate gasoline price gouging, as if his war isn't the reason that drivers pay more at the gas station. Joining our conversation is Charlie Sykes. He's the author of the to the Contrary newsletter and business analyst and author of the Message of the Market Substack. Ron Insana is here. Ron, I want to read you a little bit more economic reporting from the New York Times. The war with Iran didn't just push up energy prices. It made the whole US Inflation problem worse. The data on Thursday showed that the inflation problem goes beyond energy. The so called core measure, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, rose 0.3% in May and was up 3.4% from a year earlier, a sign that the pickup in inflation isn't limited to the categories directly affected by the war. I've had a theory just rooted in covering Trump for a decade, that the whole end of the war in Iran wasn't just that he was bored with was that he thought he could solve his midterm political problems by reopening the Strait of Hormuz. But just talk about the complicated sort of wet blanket that people are feeling in our economy right now.
- [37:40]
Ron Insana
In so much Nicolas, there might be a break in oil prices going forward because they've dropped from about $112 to $71 today. There is, as you pointed out, a much wider set of price pressures on both goods and services, in part because of the tariffs that are still in place, in part because of the rising cost of of technology goods. As we found today. The price of computer chips is going up so fast that Apple is raising prices on iPhones and computers by as much as 17% on average. So as energy prices come down, technology, goods, autos and TVs are going to go up in price because computer chips are going up. That's the result of the AI infrastructure build out, not the war. But generally speaking, the cost of fertilizer, the cost of helium, which is involved in making computer chips, relationships have all gone up. And that is a result of the war with Iran. And that means that inflation, although the headline number may fall in the next couple of months, that the overall level of prices is not going to come down and satisfy most Americans.
- [38:42]
Host
Charlie, Fox News was willing to pay almost $1 billion appeasement tax in its settlement with Dominion Voting Machines to toe the party line. That is how all in they are in not covering the reality of people's economic pain, in not covering some of the very sort of verbal, verbally violent roiling of the MAGA coalition over the war with Iran. And this is Fox News poll on the economy. Fox News finds that just 31% of Americans approve of Trump's performance on the economy and 68% disapprove. So this is a network that literally launders and covers up everything unseemly that he does. Their audience has a near 70% disapproval of Donald Trump on the economy.
- [39:29]
Charlie Sykes
Well, I am really struck by the gap between the lived experience of Americans and the incredible tone deafness of the Trump administration. And by the way, I share your obsession with the reflecting pond because I think it really is kind of an indication into the, the, into the mind of this president. And Raphael Warnock made a couple of interesting points. You know, number one, he actually quoted Matthew 25, which basically reminds people, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me. And then he says, you know, it's kind of the gap between this Christian administration and the kind of economy they have, which does seem to be clearly rigged for not just the super wealthy, but is obsessed with Donald Trump's fanciful projects. And so at this moment, when you have inflation, you also have what you've been talking about the entire show, this Marie Antoinette moment from the president, this let them eat cake. And I think that that tension is what you are seeing reflected in those polls.
- [40:40]
Host
Yeah, I mean, Charlie, I would just say, and there's no, it's frictionless. He is a glutton for grifting and corrupt self enrichment with literally no stories about how advisors tried to stop him from doing another press avail about his beautification project. I mean, they can't. And I think it's a story about the fecklessness of the circle around him. They think they're winners because they're just people who let him do what he wants to do. They're actually people who are destroying whatever's left and good riddance. I mean, this is one part of what's going on that I'm not distraught about. They're destroying whatever's left of the political coalition.
- [41:16]
Charlie Sykes
Well, right in Trump 2.0, they destroyed many of the external guardrails. Trump 2.0, they destroyed all of the internal guardrails, saying, Mr. President, maybe you should talk about the actual lived experience of Americans out there, their financial condition. As much as you are obsessed with your ballroom and your pool and your arch and all of these other things, but apparently no one is able or willing to tell him that.
- [41:41]
Host
Yeah, all right. No one's going anywhere. There's so much more to get to sneak in a break. We'll all be right back. On the other side. We're back with Charlie and Ron. Ron, so much as we talk about the disparity between the markets and Main street and people's lived experiences, are you suggesting or seeing evidence that they may actually start to converge?
- [42:08]
Ron Insana
Yeah, we just don't know which way yet. Nicole, there's some signs that the economy is holding in relatively well. Today's upward revision to the last GDP report actually masked some underlying weakness. Consumer spending was down, imports were down. And so it wasn't really quite as strong a number as it looked. And we are still seeing the things that people worry about. Credit card delinquencies, mortgage delinquencies, student loan delinquencies at record levels. And the top 10% of wage earners still account for anywhere between 37 to over 50% of consumer spending. So that so called K shaped economy is still there. And people, as they slide down the ladder, if you will, to use a mixed metaphor, you know, face higher child care costs, they're off the aca, Snap and Medicaid, as you discussed earlier in the program, are being cut back. And so that lived experience for middle income and lower income individuals is getting tougher, not easier. And eventually Wall street may catch down to that unless we get something other than big build out of AI infrastructure, which is propping the economy up and helping a select few, not the entire population.
- [43:14]
Host
I mean, just to go back to the political overlay, Charlie, I mean, Trump is at historically low, since he's been on the scene, numbers with rural Americans and historically low approval Ratings for non college educated white voters.
- [43:29]
Charlie Sykes
Yes. You know, and, but this was, this was his pitch, right? That he was, he was the populist president. He was going to be the voice for the forgotten American. And a lot of the, those forgotten Americans are feeling forgotten again. They're seeing that people who Donald Trump is the voice for are the people who are funding his projects, lining his pockets. You talk about the K, you know, K shaped economy. Just keep in mind that the world's first trillionaire, Elon Musk, spent much of last year cutting spending for the world's poorest people. And you know, at a certain point people go, wait, debate. Are you on my side or are you on the side of these other folks? And I think that that picture is becoming clearer and clearer who Donald Trump actually listens to and cares about.
- [44:17]
Host
Yeah, he's helping, he's helping to clear it up. Charlie Sykes, so great to see you. You have to come back tomorrow for our reflecting full coverage. I'm glad that we share that fascination. Robin, you come back anytime. Thank you for being here today. One more break. We'll be right back. My guest this week on the Best People podcast is Pablo Torre. He is a man of many talents and he never holds back. He's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, a podcaster, and a keen observer of how politics and culture and sports collide in this moment of Trump and MAGA everywhere. Take a listen to what he had to say about the relative silence in the world with of sports to the events of Donald Trump's second term. Especially compared to the first term,
- [45:05]
Pablo Torre
sports has been way too quiet. Sports is an untapped culture war territory, an untapped vector of organization. I come at that take because I've been disappointed by how underutilized sports has been as the megaphone that is now clearly conclusively established as the loudest one we got. 2020 during the pandemic, during Black Lives Matter, during that social movement, it was so much louder.
- [45:35]
Host
Yeah.
- [45:36]
Pablo Torre
And now as this administration is that much worse and that much more obviously corrupt and transactional and rigging the American economy and by the way, our justice system and granting through the power of the pardon, immunity from anything resembling accountability while favoring the richest among us. Right. Like all of that's happening to a degree that just so embarrassing. It's like third world level stuff. And yet sports, because they see the transactionality, because they see it, they have decided to transact, they've decided to participate in the crony capitalism writ large because they fear what will happen if the President punishes you in all of these extrajudicial ways
- [46:26]
Host
for some uncomfortable truths for me to hear, but super important. I love this conversation. I think you will too. Just scan the QR code on your screen to listen now or download the best people Wherever you get your podcast, let me know what you think on Instagram or Bluesky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes.
- [46:47]
Reporter 1
We are grateful this heat isn't letting up and if your windows and doors aren't performing your home is feeling it. Now's the time to replace your old worn out windows and doors during the Renewal by Andersen Summer Sizzler event for a limited time enjoy. Buy one get one 40% off plus $50 off each window and door with a minimum of four and buy now and pay later with our special financing. Stay cool with these summer Savings by visiting renewalbyandersonhome.com today and get your project started.