← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"The replacement of the DOJ's 154-plus-year-old mission"
00:45:33
Todd Blanche came under withering questioning today from Senate Democrats.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:07]
Nicole Wallace
Hi there, everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. So who was on Capitol Hill today? Was it the acting Attorney general, the United States of America? Or as one Democratic lawmaker put it today, Was it Donald Trump's consigliere Todd Blanche came under withering questioning from Democrats over the wholesale replacement of the Department of Justice's 150 plus year old mission of upholding the rule of law in this country and around the world with instead doing the bidding of an aspiring autocrat named Donald J. Trump. A key focus today, that $1.8 billion settlement funded by our money, taxpayer dollars. Our taxpayer dollars will now be used to compensate people who claim to have been wronged by the Justice Department, the so called victims of weaponization. Here's Senator Van Hollen on that.
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Senator Van Hollen
This is an outrageous unprecedented slush fund that you set up. Simple question. Will eligible will individuals who assaulted Capitol Hill police officers be eligible for this fund?
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Todd Blanche
Well, as it makes plain.
- [02:19]
Senator Van Hollen
Anybody just let me know if they're eligible for the fund.
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Todd Blanche
As, as, as was made plain yesterday, anybody in this country is eligible to apply if they believe they were victim weapons.
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Senator Van Hollen
Mr. Ch, let me ask you this. Are there going to be rules that say that if you've assaulted a Capitol Hill police officer or committed a violent crime, you will not be eligible? Why not make that a rule?
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Todd Blanche
I expect that. Well, because I'm not one of the commissioners setting up the rules.
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Nicole Wallace
You're appointing.
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Senator Van Hollen
Four of the five members aren't you, Mr. Attorney General?
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Todd Blanche
Pardon me.
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Senator Van Hollen
You're appointing four of the five members.
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Todd Blanche
I am appointing qualified.
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Senator Van Hollen
There's also an individual who, after being pardoned by the president, went on to molest two children. And that person actually tried to buy the silence of these children by saying that he would pay them some of the funds that he was hoping to get from your slush fund. Can you commit to making the rule so that that person is not eligible for a payout under this fund?
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Todd Blanche
Well, you're obviously lying in your question because there's no way that this person committed to that. The slush fund, as you call it, which is not didn't exist, I'm sure,
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Senator Van Hollen
but I can commit, Mr. Attorney General, don't ever do that again. I am reporting what he said. He said on the expectation that he hoped to get some of the funds from a payout.
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Todd Blanche
He's, he's been the slush fund senator, and that didn't exist when he said
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Senator Van Hollen
that this is the fund that the president and all of you have been telegraphing all along that you're going to use to help the president's friends.
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Todd Blanche
Can you point to Mr. Turner, what Telegraph did?
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Senator Van Hollen
I have a last question for you. Do you know that it is a criminal offense to lie to Congress?
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Todd Blanche
I am very well aware of that.
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Senator Van Hollen
I'm glad to hear that.
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Nicole Wallace
Couple headlines there, Blanche acknowledging it is a slush fund and we'll use his quotes if he'd like us to, but also suggesting that the child molester who was convicted for the crime of telling the child he molested that there was money coming to him, restitution, didn't even know, couldn't have even known about the slush fund. The person that Senator Van Hollen was asking Todd Blanche about is named Andrew Paul Johnson. He's right now, as we come on the air right now, his status is this. He's serving a sentence of life in prison for molesting minors. NPR reports this about him. Police reported that that man, Johnson, 45, tried to keep the children quiet by telling them he would share the millions of dollars in restitution money he expected to receive from the Trump administration in connection with his January 6th case, end quote. At one point, as part of his bungling defense of the slush fund, Todd Blanche suggested that anybody, any Republican, any Democrat in this country could apply for money if they, quote, believe they were victims. Watch that.
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Todd Blanche
It is true that this is unusual. That is true, but it is not unprecedented. And it was done to address something that had never happened. Again either. So there is an impressive nature of what we did yesterday in response to years and years of weapon. Just to correct a few things, Senator, it's not limited to Republicans. It's not limited to. It's not limited to the Biden weaponization. It's not limited to in any way, scope or form to January 6th or to Jack Smith. There's no limitation on the claims.
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Nicole Wallace
Okay, so that stipulated, is former Director of the FBI Jim Comey eligible? His team argued that he was the victim of a vindictive and selective prosecution. What about New York's Attorney General Tish James? What about the Southern Poverty Law center or Act Blue? Or the six members of Congress who were investigated for simply saying out loud and on camera that the men and women of the United States military swore an oath to not to follow any illegal orders? They have good claims. Are your hand picked five commissioners going to grant their claims? I doubt so. In a world where Todd Blanche picks, as he said, he corrected the questioner. It wasn't just four members. It's all five of the commissioners who make the decisions. We can safely rule that out. This is also the same Todd Blanche who claims that there's evidence that Bill Barr couldn't find or Brad Raffensperger or any of the other Trump allies who looked really hard that the 2020 election was indeed rigged. This is the same Todd Blanche who served as Donald Trump's defense attorney. The same Todd Blanche who now cannot definitively say if violent felons who assaulted cops will receive money from the, quote, slush fund. Here's what happened when Todd Blanche was pressed again about ensuring that money from taxpayers does not go to the most violent insurrectionists.
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Will you agree to encourage those commissioners
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Andrew Weissman
to set a guideline that compensation will
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Commercial Announcer
not go to individuals who are convicted
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Andrew Weissman
of assaulting police officers. I expect I just a yes would answer my question or no?
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Todd Blanche
Yes will not answer that question. I mean, you're asking whether I will encourage. I don't think that's a fair word. I don't think it's the attorney General's job to encourage commissioners to do or not do anything.
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Nicole Wallace
Bar forbid, ban, rule out, change the word. Hours after that testimony wrapped up on Capitol Hill, news broke that the Department of Justice expanded its settlement with Donald Trump. A one page document signed by, you guessed it, that guy Todd Blanche and posted on the Justice Department website bars the IRS from ever pursuing an audit of Donald Trump or his family or his family businesses. 407 will be eagerly awaiting the release of Donald Trump's taxes now that we know he can never, ever, ever be audited. That was his excuse back in 16 for not releasing them. Politico and the New York Times were the first to report the news about the document. The Justice Department did not provide comment on the document to either news organization. The acting head of the Justice Department up on Capitol Hill facing withering questions about Donald Trump's attempt to turn the office of the presidency into a personal piggy bank funded by the American taxpayer, is where we begin today with some of our favorite, most favorite friends. Justice and intelligence reporter Kendallane is here. Also joining us, former Department of Justice pardon attorney Liz Oyer is here. She was fired by Trump's Department of Justice after refusing to reinstate actor Mel Gibson's gun rights. And with me at the table, back at the table for the hour. Our friend Andrew Weissen's here. We're so glad you're here.
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Andrew Weissman
I'm so glad to be here.
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Nicole Wallace
I'm so excited to talk about the book. The new book is called Liars Kingdom. It's so important. It's so good. It's so timely. It's about how to stop Trump's deceit and save America. We deal with lying, we deal with gaslighting. We'll pull that thread all hour and then we'll dive into the book a little bit later on. I want to ask you about Todd Blanche's performance today. There were actually a lot of guys. It's like a three ring circus, right. Vance was in one ring, Blanche on the other. The problem with performing for an audience of one, which is what they're all trained to do, motivated to do, is that the answers sound ridiculous.
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Andrew Weissman
Right? I mean, that is the reason he could not say we are not going to give money to violent felons. If you remember before the inauguration, you had the vice president, Anne Pam Bondi, suggesting, well, don't worry, we're going to do a triage of the January 6th defendants to suggest that the violent ones would not get a pardon. Well, they got ahead of their skis because everyone got a pardon. And so here you see Todd Blanche not being able to even say that minimally decent thing. But I think I'd like to step back one step to this. The entire thing is built on, in my view, a lie. I mean, the entire predicate for this is that there needs to be a fund because of the weaponization of the Biden Justice Department in going after people who attacked the Capitol on January 6th. We saw it with our own eyes. Those people. There was no Weaponization. Those people got due process. They either pleaded guilty or they were found guilty by a jury or they were awaiting trial. That is not weaponization. That is not.
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Nicole Wallace
Mitch McConnell actually justifies not impeaching, not convicting Donald Trump in his impeachment trial by saying he should be adjudicated by the justice system.
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Andrew Weissman
Exactly. So this is all predicated on something that they're just pretending. Oh, of course. All those people were victimized. I would remind people. We saw with our own eyes the crime. And even with all of that abundant evidence, these people were given due process, the rule of law, and there was an adjudication. What is happening now is these people are being told, if you commit crimes for Donald Trump, not only will you get a pardon, but you now have the prospect of cashing in on your crimes. What is the deterrent effect now going forward when you created this paid army with criminal impunity? Because there will not only be no criminal repercussions, there's a reward for what they're doing. It is. This is gobsmacking. And the person who is announcing this and defending it is the head of what is our Justice Department.
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Nicole Wallace
I mean, let me ask you about that, Kendallane. And I mean, there's the pardons that happen on day one. There's the fund happening with Donald Trump almost 17 points more unpopular than he was at the time. Rushing to the cameras are Todd Blanch and J.D. vance thrusting the most unpopular moments and hours of Trump's presidency. I mean, the reason J.D. vance is the vice president is because January 6th involved the mission of, quote, hang Mike Pence. All of this is politically detrimental to Donald Trump. But what Andrew just alluded to is this is taking the people who carried out acts of violence that included the threat of, quote, hanging Mike Pence on January 6th on behalf of Donald Trump, who told them to, quote, fight like Kelly won't have a country. What, if anything, is the concern or the awareness that by pardoning them plus paying them, they're sending dangerous messages?
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Kendallane
Well, I can tell you, Nicole, there is a widespread outrage among the people that I talk to inside and outside the Justice Department and the FBI, the people that are still trying to do good work there. I've never seen them so angry as over this thing. And I just would like to expand on Andrew's point, and that's the. To me, this is the central point, that it's built on a lie, because we can't just let that slide. Todd Blanche uses this phrase, weaponization, over and over again as if it's a fact, but in fact, it's a lie. And it's not just about January 6th. It's also a lie as applied to the Russia investigation, which is very much in play here. Donald Trump has been talking about people maligned and over prosecuted during that investigation that Andrew was a part of, and also the Jack Smith prosecutions. Now, the Russia investigation, as you all know, was investigated by the inspector general and by a special counsel, John Durham, who went over all the territory and found no wrongdoing, no evidence of political bias or improper predication. Now, the Jack Smith investigation has not had that kind of scrutiny, but the Trump administration has had all the records from that investigation for a year and a half, and they've yet to produce any evidence that Jack Smith or anyone else was motivated by politics or that, particularly this phrase, Biden weaponization, that Joe Biden had anything to do with that or anybody that he appointed politically were pushing somehow something improper. Those cases were made by career prosecutors and FBI agents who were following the facts in the law. You could debate whether it was a good idea, whether they should have taken a pass, whether it, in fact, you know, help Donald Trump politically. And you can also debate whether some of the January 6th cases were over prosecuted. I know there's a lot of people inside the FBI who thought, look, we shouldn't go after the people who committed misdemeanors. We should just concentrate on felonies. Merrick Garland made a decision to prosecute everyone who went in that building. And in fact, you know, the man that you mentioned, the child molester who's now serving life in prison, he was convicted of a misdemeanor trespass. So what that tells you is some of those people who just got misdemeanor convictions were still awful, horrible people, and now they've all been pardoned. And I think of in particular Daniel Rodriguez, who stuck a Taser into the neck of Michael Fanon and was very meek and conciliatory in his interview with the FBI. But then after the sentencing, he got 12 years in prison, screamed in the courtroom, Trump won, which told a lot of people that all of his remorse was just an act and he was set free by that pardon. Is he now eligible for compensation for this fund? That would be an absolute outrage.
- [16:29]
Nicole Wallace
Michael Fanon will actually join us today in a little bit. Liz, I want to get you on this idea of the signal it sends to people who would carry out acts of violence, acts of political violence, which is a horrible, horrible reality in our country. Donald Trump himself has been targeted I mean, political violence is on the minds of everyone, I'm sure, every one of us, anyone in the arena talking about politics. What is the signal sent to people about this moment in terms of political violence, if the people who carried out acts of violence against cops were pardoned and will now be paid?
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Liz Oyer
Well, Nicole, it obviously sends a very dangerous message to people who are thinking about committing violence in the name of Donald Trump or any other type of crime that will benefit Donald Trump, that not only does he have their back, they can expect to be considered for pardons, but they also may be compensated for their trouble. I have to say, as troubling as that is, I don't even find that to be the most troubling aspect of this. The most troubling part, from my perspective, is how this settlement came to be. The. This is essentially a collusive conspiracy between Donald Trump and Todd Blanche to take money from taxpayers, take tax dollars, and distribute them to people who have no legal entitlement to that money. That suggests to me that we have crossed another Rubicon here, that we are seeing a new level of corruption where the President and the Attorney General feel free to distribute our tax dollars to their friends and their allies and their supporters. And that is just wrong on such a fundamental level to someone who has been a career civil servant. The idea that this attorney General, who has a fiduciary duty to safeguard our tax dollars and to defend them against frivolous lawsuits, would settle this lawsuit with Donald Trump that was determined by a team of independent experts to have no merit whatsoever, it's really just absolutely chilling and shocking and truly quite upsetting, and it's something that I think rises to the level that all Americans really to be paying attention to.
- [18:45]
Nicole Wallace
Liz, what is this document that says Trump can never be audited? I mean, just as someone who's covered his use of the threat of being under audit as the predicate or the excuse for never releasing his taxes on the norm that was busted so long ago, I don't know how many people even remember it, but they're all logged in my brain. What is the significance of DOJ entering into an agreement to never audit Trump or his businesses or his kids?
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Liz Oyer
Well, Nicole, the fact that this second piece of the settlement agreement didn't come to light yesterday, when the settlement was announced and was not part of the court filing that was made by the Justice Department and Trump's lawyers, is incredibly disingenuous and troubling in and of itself. The document that. That you showed, it's called a release of claims. And it's actually broader than a tax audit audit. It not only gets Trump out from under potentially very costly audits, but it appears to forfeit any claims that the United States might have against Donald Trump. Not just Donald Trump the man, but also his family members, his company's trusts in his name really related to any type of liability. It gives up the rights of the United States to sue Donald Trump. That means that in the future, when Donald Trump is no longer in office, if a subsequent administration wants to investigate him for misappropriating taxpayer funds or failing to pay taxes or really any type of misconduct whatsoever, he will have this defense that he is barred or that the United States is barred under this settlement agreement from prosecuting him or suing him. And taxpayers essentially have been betrayed at the highest levels of government by Todd Blanche, who signed away our rights to sue Donald Trump in the future, and members of his inner circle and his businesses. It's really quite staggering in its scope. And I have never seen something like this before in a settlement agreement, certainly not the settlement agreement of a lawsuit that is essentially frivolous, extraordinary.
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Nicole Wallace
All right, no one's going anywhere. Much more ahead for us, from taxpayer funded payouts to insurrectionists to millions of dollars of stock trades being made by a sitting president. An alarming number of trades. We'll talk about how Democrats can fight back against all of this blatant flagrant increasing level and pace of corruption backed by a Republican Party who seems to be looking the other way. Maryland's Governor West Moore will join us coming up. Plus, Donald Trump sinks to another new low in his standing with the American people, with the American voter, and also with a sizable portion of the Republican voters that he clearly does not care about anymore. We'll look at that as voters head to the polls today in Kentucky, where Donald Trump's retribution campaign has zeroed in on the Republican congressman who led the successful effort to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. We'll get to all those stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [21:38]
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- [22:08]
Chris Hayes
Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what is the end game? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, why Is this Happening? I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.
- [22:24]
Liz Oyer
We're right now in a situation where
- [22:25]
Nicole Wallace
it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.
- [22:29]
Chris Hayes
Why is this happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from Ms. Now. Start listening today. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:41]
Andrew Weissman
Will you commit that none of President
- [22:43]
Chris Hayes
Trump's family will receive a direct payout from this fund?
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Todd Blanche
Yes.
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Andrew Weissman
And will you commit that none of this money will go to President Trump's campaign donors?
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Todd Blanche
I am not committing to anything beyond the settlement agreement itself. When you say campaign donors that they are not excluded from seeking compensation.
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Nicole Wallace
So the opposite of they're not excluded is they are included, which means that the oligarchs stand to benefit from this if they view themselves as victims of weaponization. The Wall Street Journal reported this Treasury Lawyer quits as Government settles Trump IRS suit, quote. The Treasury Department's top lawyer resigned Monday as the government announced a controversial settlement with Trump, according to people familiar with his departure. Brian Morrissey joined the Trump administration last year as the president's pick to be the Treasury Department's general counsel after previously serving at the agency and at the Justice Department during Trump's first term. A former clerk for Justice Clarence Thomas, Morrissey didn't respond to requests for comment late Monday.
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Andrew Weissman
So he had been on the job for seven months. So the way that Donald Trump can get to where he is, it's like there can be evil in the world, but the way that you empower it is by complicity and the sort of what you see. And we've shown here just a small segment from Todd Blanche. And so there's a reason the general counsel was adhering to his oath of office. In the filing in Florida in the federal court, former IRS officials, including former IRS commissioner, Justice Department tax officials, pointed out that people who are similarly situated to Donald Trump, who also had this contractor leak information, the Justice Department is fighting their claims and saying that they are legally without merit and factually without merit. And if you are now the general counsel, you have to say to yourself, wait a second, we have to treat everyone the same. That is what the rule of law is, it doesn't matter whether you clerked for Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Clinton, Clarence Thomas. And that is why you see somebody saying, no, we are now just creating a slush fund. This is a pretense to pretextual settlement because it is only applying to Donald Trump and benefiting sort of his favorite people when people who have exactly the same claim are being denied.
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Nicole Wallace
I mean, the problem, Kyndalan, is to your point, it's a lie. Right? So even, I mean, I like that Todd Blanche, because I know that we had some concerns about calling it a slush fund, and I'm happy to put it in Todd Blanche's floor quotes. The slush fund is a slush fund. Todd Blanche testified to that today. It is not a compensation fund. You know, the victims are not victims. They're criminals. And I, and I wonder sort of how far down the rabbit hole we are that the line. And I think it's a fascinating thing. Where is the line? Right. So, like, lots of horrible things have happened just in the last 15 months. But for this one general counsel at the IRS, his line was the slush fund.
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Kendallane
Yes. And I think it was also interesting to hear John Thune, the Senate majority leader, today express some trepidation about this. He said he wasn't a fan and he's going to have to go through the appropriations process. And Susan Collins, of course, was concerned. She's often concerned about things she expressed.
- [26:07]
Nicole Wallace
She's always concerned. I feel her.
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Kendallane
But, you know, she's up for a very contentious re election in Maine right now, and she didn't seem to be a fan of this either. So I think even for loyal Republicans, this is a tough pill to swallow. Almost $2 billion in taxpayer money at a time when Americans are suffering from higher gas prices and all sorts of things. And Trump's poll numbers on the economy are tanking. You know, it's not the stuff that we care most about, because we care most about what you just said. The fact that it's based on a lie, the fact that millions of Americans falsely believe that the Justice Department under Joe Biden or even under the first Trump administration, was weaponized and improperly aimed and targeted at Donald Trump, lots of people believe that. That's what troubles me so much. It's like, how do we get out of that? Because there are other networks that are repeating this ad infinitum. And most Republicans in Congress now just take it as a given that they can just say, the Biden Justice Department was weaponized without any evidence that that actually happened.
- [27:08]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Liz, if it was weaponized, it was also weaponized against Hunter Biden. I mean, it's ludicrous. The Biden Justice Department prosecuted the president's son and yes, he pardoned him. But like the idea that the department was on some axis that favored one party or the other is insane. And I want to deal with two things that Ken just said. One, there will be no parades thrown by this anchor on this network. For Thune and Collins, the idea that they're concerned is tragic. This is a travesty. Their voters are suffering and struggling economically. The rule of law going away in this country will have happened on Thune and Collins watch. They are shoveling dirt in the grave of the rule of law and they're concerned about the money is part of why we're here. What do you make of all the people who absolutely know better and are enabling this?
- [27:54]
Liz Oyer
There are so many people, Nicole. I think that each individual within the Justice Department has their own breaking point. Members of Congress really have no excuse here. This is plainly illegal in my view. What is happening here. The president and Todd lynch are trying to circumvent Congress's exclusive power to appropriate money to illegally create a fund that they have total discretion over. That is Congress's job to decide how we spend taxpayer dollars. Congress has not weighed in on this. They have an obligation to step up and take action to try to shut this down. I am hopeful but not holding my breath that we will see some action from Congress because really this is circumventing Congress's power to appropriate funds. And the thing about it that I really think is so indefensible is that it is entirely secretive how this money is being distributed and who is getting it. The terms of the settlement agreement don't even require disclosure of the names of the people who are getting paid to the public, which is absolutely unconscionable. And our members of Congress, really, if not now, when need to stand up and protect taxpayer dollars at this time of extreme stress on our country?
- [29:03]
Nicole Wallace
Liz Zawier and Kandelane. And thank you so much for starting us off on all this today. Andrew sticks around a little bit longer. We've got Governor West Moore joining us coming up. We're going to sneak in a quick break. Don't go anywhere today. We're back with Andrew Weissman, who instead of doom scrolling or despairing, has taken the last year to write a new book, a playbook actually, for saving our democracy, getting more from our government and preventing people Like Donald Trump from ever holding office in the future. It's called Liars how to Stop Trump's Deceit and Save America. It's out right now. Andrew. I could lead like an Andrew Weissman Book Club. I'm an early reader and adopter, and I have to say I love this one.
- [29:49]
Andrew Weissman
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
- [29:51]
Nicole Wallace
I want to pick up on something that you and Ken both keyed in on at the top of the hour about lies. You write this quote, Whether we take a narrower or broader approach, either way, we must draw some line between the lies we choose to punish and those we don't. The current approach is to draw no line at all. As a consequence, lies flourish that are deadly to the democratic process and that are swallowed whole by far too many Americans. I like to say to folks that the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, also works in reverse. When it is broken, you must fix it. I thought of all the Republicans in Georgia and Arizona who knew, I mean, Brad Raffensperger, Gabe Sterling, Brian Kemp knew that Trump hadn't been cheated out of a single vote in Georgia, held the line, and then went and passed voter suppression laws predicated on the lie that they said was a lie.
- [30:38]
Andrew Weissman
And what we were just talking about, the entire thing that we just spent like two segments talking about is predicated on a lie. And what I was focusing on here is what do we do about it? We're in the 250th anniversary of our country. The system then the checks and balances are not adequate to the moment. And I really wanted to start thinking about systemic change. And one of them is why do we allow politicians and candidates to lie to us when if this were to take experience in my life, I worked on the Enron case and there were business leaders and they lied to the public about the state of Enron, they lied about shares of stock, they went to jail, they were sued successfully, civilly. But if you lie about the ballot box, something that is integral to our democracy, we have zero laws in this country. Other countries do have laws. And that's one of the things I point out, is that there is another way to build our system that takes into account and holds people responsible for
- [31:52]
Nicole Wallace
lying, you got personal in a way that I don't think you did in the other book. Let me read this about your dad. Not one to view the world through rose colored glasses, my father said that I was ignoring a more apt historical analog, Germany in the 1930s. As he spoke, I Found myself wondering, is dad overreacting? I never got to tell him that he was all too right. My father died just before the COVID 19 pandemic, and today my mother suffers from acute dementia. It is one of God's small blessings that they are unable to compare the current American upheaval with what my father lived through as a boy in Europe.
- [32:35]
Andrew Weissman
So my dad was born in 1930 in Vienna and left with his family. And he was fortunate. He left in 1938 after the borders closed in Austria and managed to get out. And many, many people, not just in my family, but all over Austria and Germany, didn't have that chance. And so when I recount this discussion where we are talking about comparing what my parents lived through in the McCarthy era to the Trump 1.0 regime, and then my thinking about how they would respond in talking about Trump 2.0 and what we're living through now, you know, with my dad, it came with that personal history where he had come from, a truly autocratic regime. And that is not to compare the absolute mass murders that went on with the current regime, but in terms of our political structures and tactics that are similar. He spoke poignantly about it in a way that somebody who's lived through that can and deserves to be able to speak about it.
- [33:47]
Nicole Wallace
I want to read you something else that I wonder if this is connected to the blessing of them not having to witness something that's happened in the second term, the attacks against you, quote, witnessing the chipping away at the rule of law is profoundly upsetting to many, of course. It certainly has been for me, having devoted my entire professional life to the legal system as variously, a criminal prosecutor, a defense lawyer, and a teacher for more than 30 years, including a stint as the general counsel of the FBI under Director Robert Mueller. The developments hit me on a particularly personal level, as I have been the subject of not one, but two Trump executive orders sort of taken together. I thought that, you know, it's a privilege to get to have these conversations and to have the connection with our viewers who you are beloved among, all of them. But it is, as you write, perhaps a quote, one of God's small blessings that your parents don't have to watch you be targeted by the President of the United States.
- [34:50]
Andrew Weissman
And in some ways, what I was doing is, you know, we all at this moment have to have role models and think about how to guide ourselves at this moment and also to sort of realize what we're living through, the state of the world that we are handing down to her children and grandchildren. And to use those role models. In this case, I was thinking about my parents and thinking about what can you do constructively to honor them and to make it better when you leave this earth, what can you do? And so this book is one possible. It's not the answer to everything, but it is one possible thing to have people start thinking about, how do we make this country better? At a critical moment in our history,
- [35:44]
Nicole Wallace
do you find yourself on a knife's edge between hope and despair? Or do you feel like writing this landed you more on the side of one or the other? Or how do you feel right now?
- [35:58]
Andrew Weissman
You know, I do think I'm on a knife's edge because the thing that I still can't get over because I still believe in the basic humanity of people, and I think it's maybe because I've been a trial lawyer and you're in court. And I've always loved juries, and I've always talked up to juries. And, you know, not even nine times out of 10, 99 times out of 100, they are rising to the occasion and doing justice, and they take it seriously and their responsibility. I think I've always told the story about the one person in the Paul Manafort trial who spoke out afterwards, said she literally left her MAGA hat in her car and she still voted to convict because her point was, I took an oath of office and as a juror, and I adhered to it. And so, you know, I sort of look at that as the plus. But I can't understand the people who are not able to see the reality. To take it back to January 6th that we started with, to not look at the video and see what we're all seeing and see the obvious crimes that are happening. And that when someone tells you, oh, no, that's not a crime, that's a grave injustice. Not reacting to it in a way that you think that is fundamental to who we are as a country.
- [37:20]
Nicole Wallace
Well, it's a great contribution to the conversations that we already get to have with you. Congratulations on Pub Day. Thank you for being here to talk about it.
- [37:27]
Andrew Weissman
Thank you for having me.
- [37:28]
Nicole Wallace
We'll take a break. Democratic Governor Wes Moore joins us on the other side. Andrew sticks around as well. We'll be right back.
- [37:38]
Chris Hayes
Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what is the end game? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, why is this happening. I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.
- [37:53]
Liz Oyer
We're right now in a situation where
- [37:55]
Nicole Wallace
it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.
- [37:59]
Chris Hayes
Why is this happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from Ms. Now. Start listening today, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [38:10]
Nicole Wallace
On a near daily basis we have been covering the extraordinary, unprecedented, prevented un American levels of corruption by Donald Trump abusing an obscene amount of taxpayer money to do all sorts of things that no voters asked for. Put that aside for a second because there is a shocking new report about how Donald Trump, just like his eldest sons, has been quietly, personally capitalizing on his own policy decisions from inside the White House. This is reporting from Bloomberg. Quote, President Donald Trump's latest financial disclosures show that he or his investment advisors made more than 3,700, 3,700 trades in the first quarter, a flurry totaling tens of millions of dollars and involving major companies that have dealings with his administration, quote, that the volume of trading, more than 40 trades per day over a three month period stands out as much as the potential dollar value Experts tell Bloomberg this, quote, this is an insane amount of trades, end quote. They say that it looks more like something done, quote by a hedge fund with massive algo trades, end quote, that buys and shorts securities than from a personal account. Bloomberg adding this quote, I'm baffled in the 40 plus years of my time on Wall street. This is an unusual amount of trading by all caps, any standards, end quote. The White House deferred comment to the Trump Organization, which Bloomberg reports said that Donald Trump's holdings are, quote, independently managed by a third party financial institution. Institutions who have control over all investment decisions with trades executed through automated processes. Okay. Joining our conversation, political analysts, former Senator Claire McCaskill. Andrew Weissman is still here. So Claire, the robots did it.
- [40:08]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah, really. And these were personal accounts. And he's not even pretending that he's trying to follow the rules in terms of conflict. I mean he bought Dell and then went out like two weeks later and told everybody to buy Dell computers. This is so blatantly unethical and so blatantly corrupt. The depressing thing about this, Nicole, is the Supreme Court. And Andrew, by the way, it's so good to see you.
- [40:44]
Andrew Weissman
Nice to see you, Claire.
- [40:48]
Claire McCaskill
Andrew can speak to this, but you know to what extent he can be prosecuted for this after he leaves the presidency is a very important thing for us to cover because any other citizen who is in public office that would do what he is doing would expect the FBI to be on their doorstep. And clearly he thinks that that's not going to happen to him or his family and that anything can go. And now we've got the Justice Department saying that we can never audit him or his family or his business. It is nuts. This is just nuts. It just gives me a stomachache.
- [41:28]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Kash Patel is snorkeling on sacred hallowed ground in Hawaii. So I don't think the FBI is going to knock on his door. But I guess my question for you is, yes, this is flagrant corruption. Yes, this is brazen. I wonder, though, if at a time when upward of 70/ percent of Americans are struggling financially, the corruption is going to land differently, going to bother them more.
- [41:55]
Andrew Weissman
Well, that's what you always wonder is what breaks through. You know, I talked to our friends in the Bulwark and when the Alex Preddy shooting happened, they said, you know, because it was visual, people could see it, it broke through. People were like, I want to see it for myself and make a judgment. I don't need to hear from Fox News or Ms. Now.
- [42:16]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [42:17]
Andrew Weissman
And so here when it is what all appearances look like, insider trading. And by the way, even that statement, you know, I read that as a lawyer. It didn't say, didn't say we didn't do it. Exactly. And it didn't say we didn't get information from people who knew what was going to happen going forward.
- [42:37]
Nicole Wallace
Correct.
- [42:37]
Andrew Weissman
That was what you want to hear. But then you'd also have a question, is that even true?
- [42:41]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [42:42]
Andrew Weissman
So this is one where that. And also basically stealing taxpayer money. I mean, my view is what's going on now, it's like, why not just go to Fort Knox and just take the gold out and use it for whatever purposes you want. That is what we're seeing with.
- [42:55]
Nicole Wallace
I feel like if Trump's watching you, which he often is, like, what's to stop him from just taking that as a suggestion?
- [43:01]
Andrew Weissman
Right, Exactly. And this is one where we do not have a functioning democracy. We do not have Congress taking any steps to rein the sanctions.
- [43:13]
Nicole Wallace
Right. We don't have Congress, but we do have some pretty strong governors out there. I want to bring in one of them. Maryland Governor Wes Moore. He joins us from the center for American Progress's Ideas conference in Washington, D.C. i know you were sharing your ideas and they were happy to hear them, but we are, too. You're jumping into a conversation in progress about not just corruption in politics, which perhaps is an age old story, but the novel development that Trump has brought us of doing it all out in the open. And I wonder how much of your time you spend thinking about the need for transparency and reform in our politics.
- [43:48]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, you know, the very first executive order that I signed when I became the governor was an anti corruption executive order that, that I put all of my assets in a blind trust because I never wanted anyone in the state of Maryland to ever think that I was making a decision based on how it would benefit me. And actually I signed legislation saying that anyone, for anyone to ever be the governor of Maryland, they must put their assets in a blind trust as well. That we just banned prediction market trading for members of anyone who works for state government because we know that this isn't just about corruption. It's about basic trust. Do people actually trust you and trust what you're saying and trust what you're going to do? And so to see what we're seeing right now with the White House is not just deeply disturbing on the that fact face. The fact that we've had a president United States now making over 3700 trades in the first quarter alone. He's basically a day trader. He's not the president of the United States. But it's also what it's doing to the fabric of trust that we have in this country.
- [44:45]
Nicole Wallace
Governor, when a lot of Democrats, a lot of Americans look to you for how you talk about some of these issues and I wonder when you look at the absolutely devastating poll numbers, the ratings that the country is giving. Are you able to hear us, Governor? Can you hear us? Can you hear us, Governor?
- [45:06]
Governor Wes Moore
Yeah, I'm not hearing it.
- [45:09]
Nicole Wallace
We're going to work on the governor's audio. Clara, let me ask you to field that question. When you look at the, I mean the governor's talking about things that before Trump were pretty standard fare, right? Like elected officials put their assets into blind trust so that there was not that they would do anything but so there was never any question, right. About conflicts. When you look at the sort of coinciding data points of Donald Trump's collapse, he hit new floors over the weekend in two major highly respected polls. He's nearing what Sarah Longwell calls The Bush floor, 32% in almost all polls on the economy. His numbers are way beneath that. I think every respectable has him under 30 on questions. Economic security, hope for your economic future, inflation, taxes, everything is under 30%. Do you feel like Democrats are speaking to as broad of a number of Americans? And I know our audience hate, they hate when I ask if Democrats are Doing enough in this moment when Republicans are putting our democracy through the wood chipper. But what opportunities, let me ask it that way. What opportunities do Democrats have to talk to 70% plus of all Americans?
- [46:23]
Claire McCaskill
Well, first of all, you've got to talk about the things that matter to them. And I think one of the dangers we have with this level of corruption and this level of outrageousness, whether it's the slush fund to pay off his friends or potentially people who assaulted violently police officers, or whether it's the crypto or whether it's all the day trading, or whether the fact that he's not thinking straight, we get so focused on him, I think we forget about the folks that are really hurting right now. And I think Democrats have to be very careful because if it is all about how bad Donald Trump is, then somebody's gonna think, well, you know, maybe they don't realize how bad it is for me. And that's the danger there. That's the danger. So if Democrats stay focused on the messaging and the proposals, that will actually relieve some of the pain for Americans, whether it's their health care costs or whether it's just something simple like can you get to a hospital in rural America or can you get relief from the tariffs if you're a farmer and talk about those kinds of things, whether you live in the city or live in the country, farmer's plight affects all of us because that affects the food prices. So it's really boiling down to making it about you and not about him.
- [47:50]
Nicole Wallace
Claire, I'm gonna ask you to stick around. Governor, I trust we've re established contact with you. I'm asking you to stick around. Andrew Weisman, I want to thank you and congratulate you on your book.
- [47:57]
Commercial Announcer
Thank you.
- [47:58]
Nicole Wallace
We'll be back on the other side with Governor Westmore. Stay with us.
- [48:04]
Commercial Announcer
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