"The seeds of election interference are already in our American soil"

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House

Episode: "The seeds of election interference are already in our American soil"
Host: Nicolle Wallace | MS NOW
Date: February 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the increasing threat of election interference in the United States as the midterms approach. Host Nicolle Wallace is joined by voting rights attorney Mark Elias, political analyst Tim Miller, former Congresswoman Elaine Luria, and others to analyze the Trump administration’s recent efforts to control elections offices, the alarming federal and state-level maneuverings, and the resilience and response of Democratic officials and the courts. The discussion also expands to broader political culture clashes — notably, the ferocious backlash against Super Bowl halftime performer Bad Bunny and apparent international responses to Trump administration figures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Escalation of Election Interference Tactics

• Trump Administration’s Actions: The panel discusses direct moves by Trump and allies to exert control over elections infrastructure, including federal court battles for access to voter data (notably in Fulton County, Georgia), sending high-profile proxies like Tulsi Gabbard to local election offices, and vague threats of stationing ICE or even military troops at polling places ([01:32]-[04:23]).
• Quote:
  “The seeds of election interference are already in our American soil...as Donald Trump goes about exerting control over elections offices across the country...”
  — Nicolle Wallace [01:32]

2. State-Level Resistance and Redistricting Battles

• Democratic Pushback: States like California, Texas, and Virginia are described as fighting back through legal and legislative means, mostly within the bounds of the Constitution. Virginia notably unveils a new congressional map, aiming for a more balanced delegation ([02:52]-[03:07]).
• Quote:
  “We made a promise to level the playing field...today we are keeping our promise.”
  — Luis Lucas, VA State Senate President [02:52]

3. Legal and Constitutional Crossroads

• The panel draws an important distinction between aggressive but constitutional actions (like state redistricting) versus potentially illegal or unconstitutional federal intervention in elections.
• Elias responds to the DOJ’s overreach:
  “The Oregon judge didn't just dismiss the case...he said that it (the DOJ’s move) undermines and does away with...the presumption of good faith and regularity that the Department of Justice normally enjoys.”
  — Mark Elias [12:35]

4. The Threat of Voter Suppression and Ballot Seizure

• Panelists stress that Trump allies are using every avenue, from gerrymandering to attempted ballot seizure and intimidation via ICE/National Guard, to suppress votes and maintain power ([05:41]-[09:12]).
• Quote:
  “If they have to, they’ll just seize the ballots...they just seized ballots in Fulton County.”
  — Mark Elias [08:38]

5. Culture of Impunity and GOP Fragility

• Tim Miller points to Trump’s need to avoid losing, which results in increasingly desperate and ‘impunity-laced’ power grabs ([09:57]-[12:12]).
• Miller also notes the potential for authoritarian moves to backfire by galvanizing opposition turnout:
  “Putting masked thugs outside of election locations could backfire...it could motivate people to vote in the midterms.”
  — Tim Miller [11:25]

6. Mockery and Distress Over Administration’s Transparency

• Much of the conversation centers on absurd or evasive administrative explanations — notably AG Pam Bondi’s defense of DNI Tulsi Gabbard’s presence at the Georgia ballot seizure.
• Quote:
  "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen her say. Oh, second to the list is on my desk about the Epstein files."
  — Nicolle Wallace [22:44]

7. Abuse of Power Targeting Veterans and Dissenters

• Discussion of how the administration leverages the Defense Department to intimidate opponents, including Sen. Mark Kelly and Congresswoman Luria, both vulnerable due to their veteran status ([17:00]-[18:33]).
• Quote:
  “It is a fact to not follow illegal orders.”
  — Elaine Luria [18:14]

8. Shift in Judicial and Institutional Trust

• Courts and some institutional actors are beginning to rebuke or resist the DOJ's extraordinary attempts at federal overreach; morale and capacity among government attorneys are addressed ([14:43]-[16:31]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The only reason you steal something is if you can't earn it or win it."
  — Nicolle Wallace [09:41]

• “When they say they're going to do something, we should listen. It's been proven that it's not hyperbole.”
  — Elaine Luria, referencing Trump’s history of threats and actions [05:41]

• On Pam Bondi’s answer to why DNI Gabbard was in Georgia:
  “Her answer is, we’re besties. That’s why the DNI was in an election office.”
  — Nicolle Wallace [25:21]

• Mark Elias on DOJ’s eroding credibility:
  “He said (the judge) that it undermines and does away with...the presumption of good faith and regularity that the Department of Justice normally enjoys.” [12:50]

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Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• [01:32] — Nicolle Wallace frames the urgency: Threats to American democracy and Trump’s direct election interference.
• [02:52] — Virginia unveils its new congressional map; State Senate President Lucas makes a case for "leveling the playing field".
• [05:41] — Elaine Luria draws direct lines between Trump’s prior rhetoric, January 6th, and present threats against elections.
• [09:41] — Nicolle Wallace questions the logic of openly un-democratic behavior.
• [12:35] — Mark Elias explains the legal significance of recent court rebukes of the DOJ.
• [18:14] — Luria stands with Kelly and others urging service members not to follow illegal orders.
• [22:44] — Wallace lampoons the administration's evasions over DNI Gabbard’s Georgia presence.
• [25:21] — Miller and Wallace ridicule administration's public justification for entangling intelligence and election investigations.
• [27:59] — Luria reflects on the “lack of backbone” and flickers of resistance from within the GOP.
• [29:51] — Transition to discussion of Bad Bunny and political culture war around the Super Bowl.
• [36:18] — Bad Bunny’s messages in defense of immigrants and as a cultural counterpoint to MAGA politics.
• [40:24] — International blowback: J.D. Vance booed at the Milan Olympics, interpreted as a rebuke not of America, but of MAGA figures.

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Sidebars: Culture & Politics Collide

The Bad Bunny Controversy ([31:10]-[38:12])

• Bad Bunny, as the Super Bowl’s halftime performer, becomes a flashpoint for culture war hysteria, with conservative and Trump-aligned voices calling for alternative programming and decrying themes of inclusion and anti-Trump activism.
• “Bad Bunny is a cultural icon...And besides that, he’s also a WWE wrestler. So this should be right up Trump’s alley with the manosphere.”
  — Claire McCaskill [38:12]

International Reaction to MAGA Leadership ([40:24]-[43:39])

• Boos for Vice President J.D. Vance and wife at the Milan Winter Olympics show international disapproval of the Trump administration.
• “I don’t remember ever an American president or vice president being booed at the Olympics. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is a first.”
  — Claire McCaskill [41:22]

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Tone & Takeaways

Throughout, the tone is urgent, blunt, sometimes sardonic — speakers use gallows humor and sharp language to mark the gravity of the moment. The panel is clear-eyed about both the dangers and the opportunities for resistance. There’s consistent emphasis that the attempted normalization of authoritarian tactics must not be accepted and that broad, creative, and constitutional resistance is underway.

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Summary Table of Notable Quotes

| Speaker | Quote | Timestamp | |--------------------|-------|-----------| | Nicolle Wallace | “The only reason you steal something is if you can't earn it or win it.” | 09:41 | | Elaine Luria | “When they say they're going to do something, we should listen. It's been proven that it's not hyperbole.” | 05:41 | | Mark Elias | “If they have to, they’ll just seize the ballots...they just seized ballots in Fulton County.” | 08:38 | | Mark Elias | “He said that it undermines and does away with...the presumption of good faith and regularity that the Department of Justice normally enjoys.” | 12:50 | | Nicolle Wallace | "Her answer is, we're besties. That's why the DNI was in an election office." | 25:21 | | Claire McCaskill | “I don't remember ever an American president or vice president being booed at the Olympics.” | 41:22 |

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Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid and alarming portrait of the ongoing struggle for American democracy in the face of unprecedented attempts at election interference. The guests bring legal acumen, first-hand political experience, and trenchant cultural analysis to bear. As the country heads toward the 2026 midterms, the message is clear: vigilance, activism, and clear-eyed engagement are essential—not just to resist overreach, but to protect the very experiment of American democracy.

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Mark Elias]

So I've gone from like a year ago saying no, they wouldn't really be.

[Tim Miller]

This outrageous to now absolutely believing that.

[Mark Elias]

Gabbard, who desperately seeks Trump's favor, will do anything and that Trump will do.

[Tim Miller]

Anything, even to the state of trying to interfere in our elections and potentially.

[Mark Elias]

Interfere in the outcomes. The whole notion that he continues to talk about federalizing elections in certain key.

[Tim Miller]

States, that is against the Constitution.

[Mark Elias]

So this is as chilling a time as anything I've seen.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hi again everyone. It's now 5 o' clock in New York. Those are the stakes, no less than the immediate and long term future of a 250 year experiment in American democracy. The threat this afternoon from a president and an administration seemingly hell bent not just on tipping the scales, but on throwing them out. The seeds of election interference are already in our American soil as Donald Trump goes about exerting control over elections offices across the country as officials in Georgia engage with the Trump administration in federal court over voter data seized in Fulton county by the FBI last week. Coalitions in other states are doing everything in their power to resist the Trump administration ahead of the midterm elections. In the same way California initiated a redistricting effort intended to counteract Republican gerrymandering. In Texas, fight fire with fire was the message to voters. Virginia now is also joining the fray. Democrats there just yesterday unveiled a new congressional map that would dramatically shift the balance of power from a 65 Democratic advantage to a 101 split. Here's the president of the State Senate, Luis Lucas. Today we are leveling the playing field. There are not, these are not ordinary times and Virginia will not sit on the sidelines while it happens. We made a promise to level the playing field.

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

And today, we're keeping our promise.

[Nicole Wallace]

Our maps are ready. Virginia's ready. We said 10:1, and we meant it. And we are proud to deliver a map that stands up for democracy, to stand up Virginians to stand up and.

[Tim Miller]

Give us a voice.

[Nicole Wallace]

He started this mess, and Virginia is going to finish it. That effort in Virginia, along with others like it, is a fight happening within the confines of what the Constitution permits. It is constitutional. It was just upheld by the Supreme Court, also within the constitutions of individual state constitutions. But today, there are questions about whether or not the Trump administration may be preparing action that goes well beyond the Constitution is illegal and unconstitutional. As a preface, it should be understood that Steve Bannon, of course, has a reputation for, I don't know, being a bit of a blowhard, and he currently has no role, no official job in the federal government. But when representatives of the Trump administration were asked to respond to what Steve Bannon said this week, that ICE agents, even military troops, would be stationed to monitor polling places in November, the response wasn't exactly reassuring.

[Claire McCaskill]

Steve Bannon recently said, quote, we're going.

[Nicole Wallace]

To have ICE around the polls come November. Is that something that the president is considering?

[Claire McCaskill]

That's not something I've ever heard the president consider.

[Tim Miller]

No guarantee to the American public that ICE will not be around polling locations.

[Nicole Wallace]

Or voting locations in November.

[Claire McCaskill]

I can't guarantee that an ICE agent.

[Nicole Wallace]

Won'T be around a polling location in November. Okay, that's where we start the hour with voting rights attorney, founder of Democracy docket, Mark Elias. Also joining us, political analyst, host of the Bulwark Podcast, Tim Miller is here. And with me at the table, former Democratic Congresswoman Elaine Luria of Virginia. She served on the January 6 select committee, as well as on the House Armed Services Committee, and she's currently running for Congress again. You're going back. You want to go back.

[Elaine Luria]

It's a critical time. You know, as you know, Nicole, I served in uniform for 20 years before first being elected to Congress. And I thought of it as a way to continue to serve in a different capacity. But in this moment, in this critical point in time, I feel like it is a requirement that I step back up, try to help Democrats gain the majority in the House, put a check on what's happening with this administration, and put some sanity back in our political process.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, every bit of evidence that the January 6th select committee developed and shared with the country was almost like a coming attraction for what Trump is doing now. What are your thoughts as you see him going about seizing ballots from Georgia, sending Tulsi Gabbard on whatever mission, errand it seems to be to interfere in the upcoming midterms.

[Elaine Luria]

Well, I think when they say they're going to do something, we should listen. It's been proven that it's not hyperbole. And, you know, going all the way back to the debate, when Trump said stand back and stand by, we saw it on January 6th. You know, his army of loyal supporters stormed the Capitol, injured our Capitol police and other police officers, tried to stop essentially the wheels of our government from functioning. And, you know, we've seen it happen. And all of these indicators are there. But even more concerning, so if the hair is not standing up on the back of your neck today, as they're seizing ballots, as they're flooding our cities with National Guard, as the, as ICE is terrorizing our communities, it's clearly a time that we have to act and we have to believe that they're going to do what they're telling us they're going to do.

[Nicole Wallace]

Mark Elias, I thought of you when I saw that clip from Senator Warner, because a year ago, you did not think it was outrageous. And I said this to somebody last night. I said, I've wanted Mark Elias to be wrong for, like seven years or six years. For as long as he's been coming on my show, I have wanted his warnings to be wrong, but every single one of them has been either affirmed or prescient. And I wonder what you make of how seriously sort of small c conservative senators like Senator Warner are now taking the threats to interfere in the 2026 midterms.

[Mark Elias]

Yeah, I'm glad they are. You know, the fact is, I wish I was wrong also. I wish I had been wrong in 2020 when I was warning people what was what was coming. And I wish I was wrong, frankly, in 2022 when, you know, people oftentimes skip over. The fact is, we had to sue counties in Arizona and counties in Pennsylvania that were refusing to certify the winners, the Democratic winners of elections in 2022. People forget that. They remember there were these big voter suppression laws in 2021. And then the 2022 elections were a big success, but the election deniers were there, and they would have been out in force in 2024 but for the fact that Donald Trump won. So I am glad to see more and more voices, including voices on the left like Senator Warner. Frankly, voices on the right are even more important. So to see Tim as such a strong adv on his podcast, which I Listen to, you know, speak out about this is also really important. But the fact is, everyone needs to recognize that what Donald Trump wants to do in 2026 is to try to suppress the vote so that he can win redrawing lines as a form of voter suppression. That hasn't worked out so far. So far, so good. In fact, I'm here to predict that when this all nets out, Democrats will actually have netted seats from this back and forth. So that didn't work out for them, then they want to be able to suppress the vote in more aggressive fashions. That's why they're trying to get the voter files, because that allows them to engage in voter suppression. It's why you see ICE and other paramilitary in our nation's cities. That creates optionality there. But ultimately, if they have to, they'll just seize the ballots. And, like, we can't be surprised by that. Like, they just seized ballots in Fulton County. If Donald Trump was willing to find a U.S. attorney to seize ballots in Fulton county over 2020, you think that that guy in Missouri who just did that isn't gonna do it? If Donald Trump calls him up or just sends a Dear Pam tweet about him keeping the majority in 2026? We all just need to be ready, Tim.

[Nicole Wallace]

I feel like I miss the chapters about making losers great again. I understand the autocratic flex, that this is the power grab, that this is the let's see how audacious and disgusting I can be and keep Tim Cook showing up at my house in a tux. I to humiliate J.D. vance, who was the only person, I think, ahead of his big sort of political rise to have called him, quote, America's Hitler at the time. I mean, I get the aim and the thirst to humiliate the people around him by being outrageous. I do not get why they're telegraphing how politically toxic they are. Because the only reason you steal something is if you can't earn it or win it.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, well, I think part of that is fragility, Nicole. Right. You can't accept any loss, and so you sort of lash out for any possible explanation or spin or a tactic that would prevent you from having to experience the loss. So I think that's part of it. The other part of it is, look, he needs to hold on to power. Like, they're doing myriad illegal things, and they're doing it largely with impunity right now, like, with a few exceptions in the courts. And they've received pushback from the American people in certain places. But like in a lot of areas, they're doing with impunity. And the Democrats take the gavel next year in the House, and especially if they took it in both, in both the House and the Senate, you know, there's going to be some kind of accountability, maybe not the kind that we all want, but, but too much for Trump's taste. And so it's not surprising that they're looking for every possible vantage point to prevent that or every possible tactic to prevent that. And you know, I, I agree with most a lot of what Mark said there. I think that it's important to talk both about the threats and be clear threats, but also the ability to push back on those threats, like the success and the redistricting is just, is overwhelming. It's, I think greater than almost everybody except Mark thought it could be as far as what the potential bullishness was for, for the Democrats gaining seats. And Louise Lucas, that you played in the intro that in Virginia and that story is particularly, you know, we can take a lot of relish in that story in particular because Republicans tried to gerrymander her out of her state Senate district a couple years ago and now she's coming back and getting revenge. And so good on her for playing hardball right back. So that has that backfired. I think that it's very possible that the bam and plan for, you know, putting masked thugs outside of voting, outside of election locations could backfire. I mean, that could motivate people to vote in midterms. Getting people out to vote is important. It could motivate people to mail in their ballots if there is enough of a campaign to educate people about this and to motivate people. So, you know, I think that what they're doing is predictable. Being able to see it clear eyed now early enough and having Democratic politicians see it clear eyed early enough to combat it, I think is important rather than just being feeling hopeless about it.

[Nicole Wallace]

We continue to have Mark Elias, some of the same characters stand up for democracy while all the same characters try to destroy it. In Oregon, a federal judge rebuked the efforts by Pam Bondi and the Justice Department to seize state voter rolls. Just talk about that a little bit and its significance.

[Mark Elias]

Yeah. So this is a case that my law firm and I intervened in. We've actually intervened in every case where the Department of Justice is trying to get access to this. And the Oregon judge didn't just dismiss the case. Right. Like we've seen other Judges dismiss the DOJ's efforts to get the voter rolls but he actually called out the fact that Pam Bondi had sent a letter to the governor of Minnesota trying to leverage the tragic killing there of Alex Preddy to get access to these voter rolls. And what he said is really important. He said that it undermines and does away with negates the presumption of good faith and regularity that the Department of Justice normally enjoys. In other words, normally when someone like me walks into a federal courtroom, the judge looks at me and says, all right, well, maybe he's telling me what's straight and narrow or maybe not. But when someone from the Department of Justice walks in, the scale is like, well, he represents the United States, so he's definitely gonna start with a few things in his favor that he's telling us the truth. And the district court judge in Oregon said, no, actually, that's gone. That presumption is out the window. And if that now carries forward in these other 20 some odd cases, you're gonna see a whole lot of losing by the Department of Justice. And I'm here for it.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I'm here for it, too, Tim Miller. But I feel like the backdrop is that it's flagrantly unconstitutional. Why are we even. I feel like this is an example of how successful they are in moving the goalposts. And it is akin to something I refuse to cover here, which is a third term unconstitutional. I'm not covering it. He may want it. I want to be tall, but I can't have that. And he can't stay a third term. The idea of nationalizing the elections is something he can't have because it's unconstitutional. What are your thoughts about the conversation we're having around this?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I want muscles, but, you know, maybe I could. I'd have to spend less time with you.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I mean, look. Yeah, that's for another day. Let's do that. Let's do muscles. Muscles. Muscles to defend democracy.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And we're doing our best. We could use some more muscle influencers out there defending democracy. Cause I can't carry that beat. Look, they're. Do the story that of. Of Julie Lee in Minnesota, you know, the attorney who I was was working for ICE and as an attorney, because we were to DOJ and is. And is getting upbraided by this judge basically saying that, you know, there are dozens of cases of people where, you know, the courts have told this administration that they are detaining them illegally and they have to let them go, and they haven't done it yet. Why aren't you doing it and she's basically like, I'm doing the best I can. We, we, we don't have enough people to defend all of this. Right. And so like, I do think that, that, yeah, I mean you hate to even engage with them in their various extralegal anti rule of law activities, whether it be in the immigration side or on elections or anything else. But they run, they run into eventually some practical limitations and I think that is like the smallest of silver linings. Right. Like this judge in Oregon basically, you know, is saying, we're no longer giving you the presumption that, that you're telling us straight. You have in Minnesota. They don't even have any USA is left. Like everybody's quit in Minnesota, basically. So they can't, you know, use the judicial branch to, to add on to the bullying of the agents in the street. Right. So like these are small victories, like there's a lot of terrible things happening in Minneapolis still. But I do think that's relevant and important about why the pushback is so important because, you know, they have a limit to the scale and the ability of people that are going to go along with their lawlessness.

[Nicole Wallace]

You are jumping back into the arena trying to by choice. When you look at the treatment of other veterans of the six who said simply don't follow any order that is illegal, Senator Kelly, Senator Slotkin, Congressman Crow and others, do you, I mean, would you have echoed that call? I mean, do you worry that you could be targeted because of your resume?

[Elaine Luria]

I think that, you know, Senator Kelly amongst that group is being targeted uniquely and for a specific reason because he himself is retired from the military and it's subject to be recalled. There are very few people, myself being one of them, who is in the same situation and would fall under the same rules. And having served on the January 6th committee, you know, certainly the same thing could, you know, be levied toward me. And I think the whole situation is chilling. I mean, think about the fact that, you know, as a US Senator, he's doing his job, he's speaking the truth and facts, that the administration is leveraging the Department of Defense as a weapon to, you know, go against its political enemies. He has the platform, he has the voice, he's a U.S. senator, he has the resources to fight back against this. But what about the sailor, the soldier on the deck plate who, you know, needs to essentially stand up for what's right? I think it also applies to all other, you know, veterans in their activities once they've left the military. I mean, it's just a chilling force against, you know, free speech and people's rights. So I'm very, you know, proud of how Senator Kelly is standing up not only for himself and his own situation, but, you know, all the others.

[Nicole Wallace]

Would you align yourself with their message?

[Elaine Luria]

Absolutely. It is a fact to not follow illegal orders. So I think that, you know, any opportunity for the administration to, you know, go against someone who they think is threatening them, threatening them because they're telling the truth. Right. That's how it always is. Right.

[Nicole Wallace]

The truth and telling. Yeah. Telling the truth and then not backing down seems to be what has happened. Really invoked the ire. All right, no one's going anywhere. We have much more on all this, especially Donald Trump's threat to our elections and our democracy more broadly and how Democrats are continuing to step up and to fight him on that. Also ahead for us, Puerto Rican megastar Bad Bunny is the show. He is Sunday's super bowl halftime performer. Like more and more Americans, he's an outspoken critic of ISIS practices and the Trump agenda. And the maga, right, is losing their little snowflake minds over it. Trump isn't going to the game. Boo hoo. After getting booed last time around. And speaking of booing, the latest from dateline Milan and the Winter Olympics, how the crowd there reacted when JD Vance appeared on the Jumbotron at the Winter Olympics opening ceremony. It's worth the wait. We'll tell you about it later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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To you by the National Council for Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the AD Council. We're back. Mark Elias, let me show you what Pambondi had to say about Tulsi Gabbard being in Fulton County, Georgia.

[Mark Elias]

You're damn right we're going to have ice surrounding.

[Tim Miller]

If I may, there seems to be a little confusion with. Dni Gabbard was down in Atlanta last week for the Fulton county search. Originally, this office said that she was not part of the investigation. She put in a letter to Congress that President Trump directed her to do so. And then now President Trump yesterday said that it was at your insistence that she went down there. So what is the case here?

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, thanks for asking that. That's interesting because Dni Gabbard and I are inseparable. We are constantly together, as are the people behind us. We constantly talk. We collaborate as a cabinet. We're all extremely close, know what each other, what we're doing at all times pretty much to keep not only our country safe, but our world safe. And she was down there with Deputy Director Andrew Bailey of the FBI. And that's. I'm not going to talk about any other details of that matter right now because George is a very important issue to us. She was there. We're inseparable. That's all I'll say. I don't know if you guys are Devil Wears Prada fans, but there's a scene where Anne Hathaway says about Meryl Streep's character, yes, we braided each other's hair. I mean, that they're besties does not explain why the head of National Intelligence was at a Georgia local elections office. That is the most ludicrous. I mean, I've watched Pam Bondi for the last year. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen her say. Oh, second to the list is on my desk about the Epstein files.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Mark Elias]

And in both cases, she was digging and just digging deeper and deeper. You know, I think that this is covering something up that's actually quite serious legally for them. And the person who I think recognized at first that they had a big problem was actually Todd Blanc.

[Nicole Wallace]

Todd Blanche? Yes. With Dana Bash. Yes.

[Mark Elias]

Yeah. So first Todd Blanche was like, well, she just happened to be in Atlanta and dropped by. Then, then, then, then she was pushed by Dana Bash. And he made a point of saying she's not part of the grand jury investigation. And the reason why he was pushing this distance is because she's not a federal prosecutor. And these search warrants are under seal. The affidavits are under seal, no matter how closely aligned these people are. And the grand jury secrecy, you know, applies only to people you know who are, who are properly involved in the grand jury investigation. So he was, he was trying to create distance, and Donald Trump sort of trampled all over that and pushed it back to the Attorney general. And the Attorney General is sitting there thinking, well, you know, I may not be much of a lawyer, but I'm enough of a lawyer to know that Blanche does not want me to say that I sent her there. But the President has said I did send her there. So you wind up with this ridiculous answer, which is, obviously, you could tell how uncomfortable she was. Oh, and by the way, maybe someone should ask Pam Bondi, why would a woman whose job is to deal with foreign intelligence be inseparable with a different cabinet person whose job is to deal with confidential domestic grand jury matters? I mean, that's not kosher, actually, on either end. So, I mean, this is a big mess that they're creating. This does remind me, like you said, of the I've got the list of Epstein people on my desk, and here we are a year later. She still tried to explain that, Tim.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, it is example 4564, that in 2.0 he did not have access to the very best people. This is the wrong answer. Even if you love Donald Trump and want all good things from him. And I wonder if you think we're nearing a point where people who understand that it isn't even good for them to have the DOJ and an investigation in Georgia mixed up with the dni.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you did come to the wrong panelist on the Devil Wears Prada reference. I was ready for that one.

[Nicole Wallace]

I was, like, raising my hand. But the point is, her answer in a press conference about why the dn and I'm just increasingly aware of the fact that the world is watching and they're saying, wtf? What is happening? Her answer is, we're besties. That's why the DNI was in an election office.

[Tim Miller]

What? Yeah, it's crazy. Well, but to Mark's point, and it bears repeating, is like, that is totally inappropriate, even if true. Like, the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General shouldn't be sharing calendars and diaries. I, I, they they both braiding each other's hair. Yeah. Or braiding each other's like, they both have very sensitive information that they're supposed to be dealing with, like the Attorney General ostensibly supposed to be independent from the, you know, I'm sure there's, there's certain sensitive cases where there might be reason to have overlap, but, but they shouldn't be involved in everything together in the Attorney General. We wouldn't want knowing everything, you know, that, that our spies are looking into. So, like, the whole, the whole argument is, is preposterous. Whether other Republicans are starting to see this as a vulnerability, I'm not sure about that yet. But I gotta tell you, the lame duckedness of Trump is, is really breaking through this week. I mean, you know, none of these people are profiles encourage. I'm not giving them any awards. But the fact that you've seen multiple members of Congress speak out about the racist bleed he sent about the, the Obamas, the fact that Katie Britt gave some kind of preposterous interview to the New York Times talking about how, how sad she was about the kids that were being detained, like, all of these things are signs of things that, like, they realize they have a big political problem. They're trying to figure out how to triangulate out of it. I think a lot of them know that this particular issue, the, you know, sort of imaginary story that Donald Trump really won the 2020 election is very important to him. And so that's probably like, not the one issue that they will want to distance himself from because it's like the only thing he actually cares about besides, you know, his new ballroom or whatever. But I mean, I think that as a general matter, like, the clownishness is seeping out into, into MAGA spaces.

[Nicole Wallace]

The other thing about it is that they treat their own voters like they're dopes. You know, it's Bill Barr who called the conspiracy theories bullshit. It's Lindsey Graham who said to a Georgia grand jury, quote, if they told him Martians had taken them, he would have believed him. All the witnesses you developed that testified to Donald Trump's knowledge that he'd lost, they weren't just Republicans, they were by and large members of his own administration.

[Elaine Luria]

It's really just shocking. You know, I think that one of the things that stands out the most to me is just the lack of backbone. And I appreciate Tem's comment that maybe there's some glimmer of hope that, you know, people are actually starting to stand up in this lame duck part of his term, but it's not lame duck enough. There's three years left. And we got to do a lot more to stand up to that, including, you know, Democrats taking back the house and the gavels and holding people accountable. But there's these little glimmers, shivers of slivers of light sometimes, but then they just die out. Then there's another, you know, chaos inducing crisis manufactured here, another dictator deposed, another batch of ballots stolen, another, you know, raid by ICE in another city. It's just continuous chaos. And, you know, I think that Americans are really tired of that. And I think that, you know, that is starting to show through. It showed through in Virginia in our recent elections last November. It's shown through as we're moving through these redistricting referendums. California, it was a landslide. There's a lot of momentum in Virginia to say, like, we gotta just level the playing field and have a way to go forward so that we can bring some sanity back, some people with backbones who are gonna stand up to this.

[Nicole Wallace]

All right. Helene Lauria, thank you for being here. It's nice to see you at the table. Marc Elias, Always nice to see you, Tim. You stick around for best story of the week. Global music superst Bad bunny has been shining the light on Donald Trump and the destruction and damage his deportation policies are causing. On Sunday, he will be on the biggest platform in sports and entertainment and television, the super bowl halftime show. Maybe that's why Trump is staying far, far, far away. Maybe it's because Trump's poll numbers have taken a nosedive since the last time he was there and was booed. We'll get to all of that with our panel after a quick break.

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[Nicole Wallace]

If you have not placed your order for wings yet, I will tell you you still have time because on Sunday, the New England Patriots will face off against the Seattle Seahawks for Super Bowl 60. Super bowl will be played in Santa Clara, California this year, and at halftime, global superstar Bad Bunny will perform. Fresh off a huge night at the Grammys, his win for album of the year, Bad Bunny also has the title of being the most streamed artist in the history of Spotify. Those accolades are not enough for MAGA media to calm down conservative influencers and Trump administration folks who have waged war on this year's super bowl in the NFL over picking Bad Bunny. Turning Point USA has launched an alternative halftime show, a safe space. If MAGA people can't just, like, get up and make a snack, they can tune in to the Turning Points halftime show. Take a look at how the mere existence of Bad Bunny, a superstar who doesn't perform in English, has gotten under their very, very, very fragile, little thin skin. I want to bring in national political reporter for the bulwark, Adrian Carrasquillo. Oh, hang on here. Of all events, of all sporting events.

[Elaine Luria]

The greatest day in sports every single.

[Nicole Wallace]

Year is the Super Bowl.

[Elaine Luria]

And to choose a man, I'm going.

[Nicole Wallace]

To use man in air quotes, actually, who has gone out on a limb to say how much he hates America.

[Elaine Luria]

He hates Donald Trump, and then to.

[Nicole Wallace]

Be allowed to be on our biggest stage. I hate that.

[Mark Elias]

The reality is it's a poor decision by the NFL.

[Tim Miller]

There are some amazing artists out there who want to embrace people, who want.

[Nicole Wallace]

To bring people together.

[Tim Miller]

And instead, once again, the NFL decides to go woke. I do not like Bad Bunny Rabbit. Very bad guy.

[Mark Elias]

I mean, he's not unifying, right, Charlie Brown? We could get behind. We can't get behind Bad Bunny Rabbit.

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

What does it tell you that we now live in a country where we need an alternative to the super bowl halftime show? Well, you know, I don't know well that we need it, but if we want it and we want to, like.

[Tim Miller]

Be able to go watch something else.

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

Then we should be able to do that.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, you can watch whatever you want, sweetie. Oh, they're so fresh. They're so precious. Tim Miller Tim is still here, and Claire McCaskill's joined us. And I want to bring into our conversation Adrian Carrasquillo, a political reporter for the Bulwark, and obviously, Claire, former senator and big football fan. It's embarrassing to cover this because I don't know why I still have the capacity to feel embarrassed for them, but there's always a projection. I mean, Corey Lewandowski called it a poor choice. I mean, he works for someone who made the poorest choice of all to shoot a puppy in the face. Like, who are these people? Do they think that we're not rolling on all the audacious things they say and do? Tim.

[Tim Miller]

There'S a shamelessness for sure about it. You could even tell the second fella in that newsfax article. That newsfax statement was kind of like, you're going a little bit far from me. And I guess, do we really need the second halftime show? I guess he had that face of.

[Nicole Wallace]

Like, who booked this? Like, why am I here?

[Tim Miller]

It's kind of like, I don't know, a normal human. You know, for example, I haven't liked every halftime show. You know, you don't like it, you go have a beer with your friends in the kitchen and chat during it or whatever. Like, you turn the idea they are so fragile. These snowflakes are so fragile. And then you add on to just the absurdity of, like, the alternate halftime show being Kid Rock, you know, who has several lyrics, including young ladies. I like them underage. Some call it statutory. I say it's mandatory. That's the Christian counter programming. They have, you know, a kind of Epstein Pilled, you know, pro sex crime, horrific singer. So, I don't know, I guess if they want to do that, that's fine, and the Newsmax people can turn to that.

[Nicole Wallace]

Adrian, why is Bad Bunny drive them all so crazy?

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

I had to do some meditation before this because I started, like, researching and, you know, bad bunny has 87 and a half million listeners per month on Spotify and Kid Rock and artists who have more listeners than him per month. You know, Macklemore, Gloria, Stefan, Lil Kim, Cypress Hill, artists who had their time. But no one is saying that they should anchor a Super bowl halftime show. And so, you know, Bad Bunny is. He's multi, multi racial, multi ethnic. He's open to LGBT issues. He stood up for trans woman on the Tonight show before. You know, he's somebody who. Who used to. I've been a fan since 2017 when people were like, adrian, enough with the Bad Bunny. And and now, you know, he. And back then, he didn't really speak up a lot. And then we saw him at the Grammys, have a really thoughtful statement that wasn't just ice out, but he said, we can't respond with hate to these people. We love the people that we're trying to defend. And. And it was really powerful. And so I expect more of that at the Super Bowl. And it's just clear that it's everything that. That. That MAGA and the conservatives don't want to deal with right now and don't want to embrace.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. I mean, Adrian, his message, too, was. I thought he spent most of the time defending the immigrant story that our country is built on. He said, we are not savages. We are not animals. To use the platform to sort of make both points, I thought showed, and I don't know. I don't have any insight into this. I mean, it wasn't as though he relished using his platform that way, but. But he understood the importance of it. And it really was a damn breaking moment. I mean, I think three weeks earlier at the Golden Globes, not a single person who won that night used their platform in the same way.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

And I think when he speaks up, he's telling other people, this is the right thing to do. You're right. He doesn't seem to be relishing or enjoying this. He just wants to be doing his art. You know, his album is a love letter. Puerto Rico. He wants to be in that world. So when he says jokingly on SNL that everyone should learn Spanish for the Super Bowl. And now in the latest interview for previewing the super bowl, he said, just get ready to dance. Everybody should just enjoy dancing. And, you know, one thing I'm looking for is, like, what symbolism he brings. People forget that JLO and Shakira, they had sort of like a kids in cages moment during Trump's first term. But I could see, you know, Bad Bunny doing something like wearing the bright blue bunny hat that Liam Ramos wore, that everyone got attention for a little boy who was taking Minneapolis. Right. With the whole Bunny theme. I mean, I just think that whatever he does, it's only 13 minutes. We're all going crazy about 13 minutes. But that just shows how much power this moment could have, Claire.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, some of us are going crazy for the right reasons. Right. Like, I shuttle back and forth to the kitchen, but my house, like, I get to watch the halftime show without being asked for more wings. What are your thoughts about. About this moment and about the posture that the NFL has taken in defending his choice of Bad Bunny.

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, first, I think Trump is really lucky they booked Bad Bunny because he has some kind of fig leaf excuse as to why he doesn't want to go to the super bowl because he's going to get booed. He really doesn't want to go because he doesn't want to be booed. He has a very thin skin. He can't stand it when he's confronted with the reality that the majority of America doesn't like him. So Bad Bunny was a break for him. And the other thing is, Nicole, that we've got to say here is how politically stupid this is. I mean, where were the places that Trump made gains when he got elected this last time? Hispanic voters. He made gains with young voters. He made gains with black men. And they all love Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny is a cultural icon to young people in this country and particularly people of Hispanic origin because of his loyalty to Puerto Rico. And I do want to say this. I want to remind everybody, remember, he's American. And besides that, as a little footnote, he's also a WWE wrestler. So this should be right up Trump's alley with the manosphere.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, he didn't get the memo on any of that. Speaking of booing, we have an amazing story to show you on the other side of a break. No one's going anywhere. We'll all be right back. So today in Milan at the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics, there was a loud reaction, and not a good loud reaction, when J.D. vance and his wife Usha were shown on the Jumbotron. Here's how USA Today reports that moment. Quote, as us Olympians walked into the stadium in matching Ralph Laurent ensembles during the Parade of Nations, choruses of cheers rang out across the crowd of spectators until U.S. vice President J.D. vance and his wife, second lady Usha Vance, were shown on the stadium's Jumbotron. At the sight of Vance waving miniature American flags from the San Siro grandstand, the crowd booed loudly. We're back with Adrienne Claire and Tim. Claire, this is not about America. They cheered for our athletes. This is about J.D. vance and Donald Trump.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah. And I will tell you that having traveled some over the last year, I think many Americans underestimate the damage Donald Trump has done on a world stage. They see everything going on. They see American citizens being shot in the streets by masked thugs. They see what he's doing with Greenland. They see how he's undercutting NATO. They see how he has not been as supportive as Ukraine, as most Europeans would certainly want him to be. They see his buddies buddying up with the autocrats across the globe. All of this is resonating with people all over the globe. And if anybody thinks that makes us safer, they're just not paying attention. We need our allies. We need our friends. We do not need to be someone that the rest of the world. I don't remember ever an American president or vice president being booed at the Olympics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is a first.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I don't either. Adrienne, your thoughts on the broader sort of cultural moment that we're in? I mean, Trump has a 36, 37% approval rating, but just as significantly. I don't think a year ago, the head of the NFL would have publicly defended someone who gave that speech at the Grammys.

[Adrian Carrasquillo]

Yeah, I think Claire made a great point. If Trump went to the super bowl, he was gonna get booed, too. The policies are unpopular. He's unpop here and abroad. And so it just gives more ammunition to their opponents. Goodell, it's really interesting exactly what you're talking about. A year ago, we were watching all these institutions folding and just, like, giving up to this administration. And now you have the commissioner of the NFL saying, yeah, look, this guy, he knows the moment, Bad Bunny knows the moment. And like, the Grammys was the right moment for that. And he's not saying that Bad Bunny's going to do anything anti ice, but he's saying that, you know, maybe, like, basically this, this is a popular artist and we chose him for a reason. And so I think it speaks to so much of how this administration has weakened their standing in the country and abroad over the last year.

[Nicole Wallace]

Tim, you get the last word.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I agree with my colleague Adrian. Their policies aren't popular. But I don't think we should lose sight of the fact also that JD Vance is an unappealing jerk. And this is not the first administration that has advanced policies that other countries, even allies, haven't loved or preferred or agreed with. What is new here is that J.D. vance and Donald Trump, but really, J.D. vance in particular, has tried to cultivate a Persona of being a smug bully that attacks countries that have sacrificed for us, that have been trade partners with us, that have been loyal allies with us when we were attacked for decades now. And people don't like it none too much when a smug jerk makes fun of you and tries to rub your nose in it all the time. And I'm pleased that J.D. vance got a little bit of that back with Usha at his side. And I know that the Olympics is a little tight on their video licensing and rights, but I feel like that's a historic document that we all should be able to watch over and over again. So I hope they'll be able to show that to us soon.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. And I mean, I think our allies know that J.D. vance was one of the someone who publicly called Donald Trump, quote, America's Hitler. So I think he's also one of these figures that confound our allies. How is that guy now attacking us? We didn't say that about Donald Trump. Adrian, Claire, Tim, thank you all for joining me. Thank you so much. When we come back, there's a new development to tell you about in the case of Nancy Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's mom, as the search stretches into an agonizing sixth day. We'll be back with the latest. There's some new information to tell you about in the heart wrenching and urgent search for Nancy Guthrie, the mom of Savannah Guthrie. The FBI and Pima County Sheriff's Department say they are, quote, aware of a new message and that investigators are actively inspecting the information provided in the message for its authenticity. This development comes hours after a new plea from Savannah and her family. Now, six days into the search for Nancy, the 84 year old mom of our colleague Today show host Savannah Guthrie, the FBI announced a $50,000 reward for information leading them to Nancy or to an arrest and conviction. Officials are still asking that anyone with any information call 1-800-call-FBI. You could also call 911 or you could call the Pima County Sheriff's Office. That number is 520351, 4900 one more break. We'll be right back. Big news this week on the Best People podcast. I'm thrilled and honored to be joined by one of my dearest friends, the iconic actor and activist Rosie Perez. She's so politically astute on everything we talk about here and beyond. If you're a premium subscriber, you can listen to it tonight. If you're not, scan the QR code on your screen to sign up. The episode will be available to everybody starting on Monday. Be sure to listen. Thank you for letting us into your homes this week. We are grateful.

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