Michael Crowley (1:59)

They chose the path of economic and political partnership and set the stage for.

Nicole Wallace (2:05)

50 years of growth across the globe. Through six decades and 12American presidents, the United States and Europe have faced monumental.

Michael Crowley (2:12)

Challenges and have overcome them together.

Nicole Wallace (2:17)

Because transatlantic ties held strong against the.

Michael Crowley (2:20)

Forces of fascism and imperial communism, our.

Nicole Wallace (2:24)

Nations have been able to thrive in.

Michael Crowley (2:25)

The pursuit of peace, our careful and I mean careful attention to building and sustaining the liberal international world order with the United States and Europe. At its core was the bedrock of the success the world enjoyed in the second half of the 20th century.

John Brennan (2:45)

So that was Democrats and Republicans speaking about normal things in a normal way again to this World Economic Forum. Then came Donald Trump. He did rule out using force to seize Greenland, a territory of a NATO ally, Denmark. But that cannot be the bar for us as a country. Ruling out invading an American ally cannot be the bar by which President of the United States is judged in any news cycle ever. But here he is claiming Greenland should belong to him in the United States because. Because. Well, because of World War II. Of course.

Nicole Wallace (3:25)

We weren't fighting for anyone else. We were fighting to save it For Denmark, big, beautiful piece of ice. It's hard to call it land, it's.

Michael Crowley (3:34)

A big piece of ice.

Nicole Wallace (3:37)

But we saved Greenland and successfully prevented our enemies from gaining a foothold and in our hemisphere. So we did it for ourselves also. And then after the war, which we.

Michael Crowley (3:49)

Won, we won it big.

Nicole Wallace (3:51)

Without us right now, you'd all be speaking German and a little Japanese. Perhaps.

Michael Crowley (3:59)

After the war, we gave Greenland back to Denmark. How stupid were we to do that? But we did it.

Nicole Wallace (4:09)

But we gave it back. But how ungrateful are they? Now.

John Brennan (4:16)

Where to begin? Trump also confused Greenland with Iceland. Not once, not twice, not three times either, but four times. Here's what that sounded like.

Nicole Wallace (4:32)

So with all of the money we expend, with all of the blood, sweat and tears, I don't know that they'd be there for us. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you.

Michael Crowley (4:44)

I mean, our stock market took the.

Nicole Wallace (4:46)

First dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money, but that dip is peanuts compared to what it's gone up.

John Brennan (4:56)

Damn you, Iceland. Pepper in a few references to windmills, falsehoods about migrants, lies about a rigged 2020 election, and it was the full poo poo platter of the Trump shtick. California's Governor Gavin Newsom was seen laughing at parts of Trump's speech. Here's what he had to say afterward.

Rick Stengel (5:23)

Did it stand out to you that he said Iceland multiple times when he.

Nicole Wallace (5:26)

Was talking about Greenland, you know, and.

Michael Crowley (5:30)

That every time a windmill turns, it costs $1,000?

Nicole Wallace (5:34)

A lot of stuff stand. None of this is normalized. There's a normalization of deviancy and consciousness and, you know, comments and commentary. No other president, he's held to the curve.

Michael Crowley (5:45)

He's graded on a curve.

Nicole Wallace (5:46)

I mean, it's a really some jaw dropping and remarkable statements that just, you know, fly in the face of facts.

Michael Crowley (5:53)

And evidence and common sense. So. But they're so.

Nicole Wallace (5:56)

You've heard them over and over and over again again. For the European audience, that may have been new speech. My God, there wasn't anything new about that speech.

Michael Crowley (6:04)

For the American audience.

John Brennan (6:07)

As for the rest of the world and how they see us right now today, while the Bulwark puts it like this quote, everyone else seems to get the message. The world has realized it may have to go on without America's leadership, it's not a lesson they will soon forget. Donald Trump's alarming and erratic, in the words of Gavin Newsom, deviant performance on the world stage is where we start today. Former director of the CIA John Brennan is here. He's now a senior national security and intelligence analyst. Also joining us, diplomatic correspondent for the York Times Michael Crowley joins us. And with me at the table for the hour, former under secretary of State for public diplomacy and public affairs during the Obama administration, political analyst Rick Spangles here. Director Brennan, I start with you. I spoke to a couple former senior national security officials this morning. I'd like to say when it ended, but I was afraid it would never end. And so I think it was still going on, but it was in its third hour. And so in that window after he'd and again, I don't know what he knows. I really have no sense of his level of understanding. So I won't even call the lies about World War II intentional lies or just ignorance. But when the lies about World War II and the lies about NATO were communicated from the American president, I checked in with a few former folks who served in posts similar to yours. And this person said we all are appalled. And I wonder if you think this is a moment in which you didn't have to serve in a national security capacity to be scared for United States national security.

Nicole Wallace (7:46)

Well, I think we're all ashamed of what we saw on the stage in Davos. I think all of us were quite jealous of seeing the integrity, professionalism, intellect of Prime Minister Carney of Canada, who acquitted himself brilliantly in many respects in terms of honoring the transatlantic alliance. And when we hear Donald Trump talk about history in such a, as you point out, an ignorant way, it really is a period of time where I think all Americans, whether or not they served in the military, diplomatic service, national security, intelligence, really feel that we really have reached this real inflection point where America's leadership on the world stage is not just in question, but also is now being seen as being absent, which has worried our European partners. And so again, I think what we saw was a very, very terrible depiction of what Donald Trump 2.0 is going to do one year into a four year term. And again, I think many of us are just really not just appalled and ashamed, but also just so puzzled as to how so many individuals within the Republican Party, within Congress continue to allow Donald Trump to do this. Because I think people on the world stage, and Europeans in particular, are not just seeing this as Donald Trump's aberrant behavior, which I think they've gotten used to, but he is a reflection of a sentiment in the United States within the Republican Party as well as maybe 30% of the electorate that really does agree with him and believe these things and is allowing him to do this again to not just to the detriment of international peace and stability, but to the detriment of US national security.

John Brennan (9:46)

Director Brennan, he revealed something to us as oppressed, but also to our adversaries. When he talked about the stock market dip, he called it Iceland. I believe he's referring to Greenland. It's now known to our adversaries how to bring about a change in policy from Donald Trump so he takes the military off the table after the stock market dipped, or the sort of dots you can stitch together. Do you think that the idea that Donald Trump is so impressionable to stock market undulations is also sort of a national security calculation being taken into consideration by our adversaries? Did we lose you?

Nicole Wallace (10:40)

Sorry, I had. Okay, I'm back. Yes, I do believe that he's very sensitive, not just to stocks, stock market fluctuations, but also the comments that he gets from his financial colleagues and cronies who are very concerned about what happens in our financial markets when he goes off on these. These tantrums. And I think there are a number of lessons that we can take away from this. One is that he is sensitive to this. Secondly, that, you know, he. If he's ever to write a book again, it's going to be the art of distraction, because he has distracted world attention, putting it on himself. We're not talking about what's going on in Minneapolis or the Epstein files, other types of things. He wants to be the center of attention all the time. But then thirdly, and I think most importantly, the European leaders have demonstrated that if you stand up to a bully, you can beat him, which is what they did. Donald Trump was in full retreat when he claims that there's this framework now, because everything that we can get now in Greenland in terms of our national security or military presence, we could have gotten before any of this happened. It was needless. The Danes, our NATO partners, very much want the Greenland region to be secure and to have the capabilities to try to deter and thwart any type of attempt by the Chinese, Russians or whomever. So, again, I give the European leaders, the Danes and others tremendous, tremendous kudos for standing up to the bully and saying, no, we're not going to go along with this. And I wish the Republican leaders in Congress in particular would have the same mount of chutzpah to stand up against him.

John Brennan (12:21)

And just to underscore what you're talking about, he had gone into this meeting with the threat of tariffs against all of Europe and the threat of military action to take Greenland, which he described as a quote, psychological need of mine to have full ownership to the New York Times in a sit down on the record interview with them. He has reverted or flip flopped or reversed. And there's sometimes a temptation if people like what he has. I think taco was the term that finance folks gave it. Trump always chickens out, if you like the outcome of the chicken out. Not to put a sharp cleglight on this, but in the context of US national security, to threaten military action, to say my quote, psychological need is full ownership of Greenland to threaten tariffs and then to take them all off. What sort of leader does that reveal him to be?

Nicole Wallace (13:17)

A very whimsical one, an unserious one. Because although we, the United States, are going to get whatever we need in Greenland, the damage has been profound in terms of the message that he has sent to our European partners that he was willing to use military force. He said he wasn't taking it off the table that he would do this to our NATO partners and allies. And again, Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping must be so, so happ that he has driven Trump, has driven a wedge between ourselves and our European partners and our NATO partners. So the damage that has been done is going to be lasting. And this is something that I think, just like Prime Minister Carney said, there's been a ruptured now in this global landscape in terms of American leadership. They cannot count on the United States to be the leader of the Western world and to defend not just democracy but our partners across the Atlantic. And so this was again so needless, so necessary and the fact that a Marco Rubio and other members of his cabinet encouraged him, I think along these lines, in terms of what it is that they said, it really is quite remarkable that we have fallen so low right now and the impact on national security is so impactful that it's going to take quite a bit of time to recover from this, if ever we can.

John Brennan (14:37)

Marco Rubio certainly would be aware, Michael Crowley, of how many NATO countries lost men and women in their own military serving alongside the United States after the attack of September 11th in the what was called the coalition of the willing at the time. Let me show you what Trump said about what America has ever gotten out of NATO.

Nicole Wallace (15:06)

So other presidents have spent, whether foolishly or not, trillions and trillions of dollars on NATO and gotten absolutely nothing in return. We've never asked for anything. It's always a one way street.

Michael Crowley (15:18)

But the problem with NATO is that.

Nicole Wallace (15:20)

We'Ll be there for them 100%, but I'm not sure that they'd be there for us.

John Brennan (15:29)

In terms of the most treasured thing any country has, the human beings, the men and women of their military. We are the only people who have asked any NATO ally to give us their treasure, their men and women who have died alongside. Do you think, do you think he knows that? Do you agree with me that Marco Rubio certainly knows that?

Michael Crowley (15:53)

I think Marco Rubio certainly does know that. You know, I genuinely don't know whether the President knows that or not. It's hard to know what Trump knows when he says things that aren't true. You know, I do think there are times when it's a matter of ignorance. There are a lot of things he just basic things that other presidents would be versed in that he seems not to be. Or is he just going for rhetorical effect? Does he not care? Is he trying to throw the hardest punch he can to make a commotion, a sensation, to get everyone's attention, to look like he's standing up to the Davos elites who he resents, I think because he believes that they don't respect him. And I think they're is true to the fact that they don't. Marco Rubio is a different story, Nicole. And I think that Marco Rubio was a co sponsor of legislation in the US Senate a couple of years ago at a time when he had stopped being as highly critical of President Trump as he was many years ago, back when they were political rivals and Rubio ran for president. Rubio co sponsored, maybe co authored legislation in the Senate that would make it very difficult for the President United States to withdraw from NATO. You know, it's obvious he was motivated by the possibility of another Trump presidency in doing that. And obviously he wanted to prevent President Trump from doing that. And although people's thinking evolves, I think in the case of Rubio, it's very unlikely that he enjoyed this spectacle that, you know, when, when President Trump was talking about the possibility of using military force, was threatening the foundations of the NATO alliance and threatening to rupture the NATO alliance by putting the United States in direct conflict with Denmark and other NATO nations that would have helped Denmark defend Greenland.

John Brennan (17:59)

Michael Crowley, do you have any reporting on the reaction in the room other than what California Governor Gavin Newsom shared with CNN afterward?

Michael Crowley (18:10)

Well, I'm not in Davos, Nicole, but, you know, I noticed that the applause for the president was, was pretty weak. And I just think it's pretty. I just think there's no question that that was an audience that was tolerating the president. I'm sure there were exceptions. You know, it's not going to be 100%. But when you think about the kinds of people who go to Davos, they are targets for President Trump rhetorically. These are the people that he has referred to as globalists. In many ways, his entire political image is designed to be a response to these people who he argues have globalized world affairs and economics in a way that, as he says, leaves regular Americans behind. It's a complicated story, much more complicated than he usually presents it. And I think that he is intentionally offending and belittling people who are in the room or who have been speaking before him. I mean, there's no question that he's alienating these people. And it's tricky. He's a very tricky psychological case. And I don't want to try to diagnose him. But I do think from all we've seen of this president over the years, there's a part of him that resents an audience like this, but also wants their respect and esteem. So he's partly angry at them and insulting them because he feels like he doesn't get the respect that he's due. And we are all seeing what appears to be a very complicated psychological process play out on the global stage as a result.

John Brennan (19:47)

Yeah. And it's actually Donald Trump himself who inserted his psychology into the conversation about Greenland by describing it as a, quote, psychological need. I have to own it, it being Greenland. I'm desperate to pull Rick Stengel into this conversation. I'm going to do that on the other side of a short break. Also ahead for us, one of our next guests says Donald Trump's alienating of our allies is putting the country in a dangerous spot. Democratic lawmaker and army veteran Jason Crow is calling on his Republican colleagues to finally see this as a break glass moment and stand up to a reckless president. Plus, it is not just the damage he's doing to an alliance that has kept the world at peace for generations now, but to our US Military as well. We'll talk more about that ahead. And later in the broadcast, an eyewitness to the brutality of immigration agents in Minneapolis now finding himself the subject of the administration's cruelty. We'll talk to a photographer on the front lines there. We have all those stories and more when DEADLINE White HOUSE continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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John Brennan (22:22)

Are, Nicole, doing what I have called committing superpower suicide. Explain that. Well, until a year ago, the United States was unquestionably the world's leading superpower. And among our greatest strengths were not only our economy, but our national security, our defense, our development assistance, our diplomacy. And our greatest asset, arguably on top of the traditional hard power assets, was our network of alliances and partnerships, which is what China and Russia have long envied. No matter how powerful China becomes, no matter how aggressive Russia becomes, neither of them have ever had in Europe and Asia the network of alliances and partnerships that the United States has enjoyed and.

Nicole Wallace (23:24)

Nurtured since World War II.

John Brennan (23:26)

It is, in many ways, our superpower. And what Trump has done methodically is to undermine and deconstruct the strength of those alliances. What holds those alliances together are shared values and trust. And trust has been broken. We're back with Director Brennan, Michael, and Rick. So, Rick, I interviewed Susan Rice today for my podcast. It'll be out later this week. But this idea, she just perfectly articulates how dramatic it is. Superpower suicide, it is dramatic.

Michael Crowley (24:08)

I do agree with everything she said, but I want to come to Mark Carney's speech there, which I think is the most important speech by a world leader in the last decade because he addressed the last decade w addresses these issues. And he said, and it's painful. It'll be painful for John to hear. It'll be painful for Mike to hear. He said, never ever use the term rules based world order again because it doesn't really exist. He said there was always a lie at the heart of it, which was that superpowers didn't really have to obey the rules. Russia didn't, China didn't. It was kept whole by US Power, US dominance, US values. But now when you have the US Committing suicide and not following those rules based orders, we need a new system. He really went right at it, I think in a way of saying that that old system was riddled with hypocrisy. Donald Trump in a way has exposed the hypocrisy by being such a malevolent actor himself. And now we need a new system. So one of the things that he was saying is that all of these countries need to be much more independent and not based on, not rely on that globalized trading order that always were a champion of. What did Mark Carney do this past week? He signed a bilateral trade agreement with China for electric cars. That hurts the U.S. he's saying people have to make their own agreements. They have to band together because they have plenty of power. The EU is our largest trading partner. We do a trillion dollars of trade with them a year. They have huge bargaining power that hurts American consumers. So when Trump inflicts a tariff on, inflicts it on them, it actually, it's inflicted on us because as the Wall street journal said, 96% of the cost of paying for by US consumers, like they're not using their leverage. And Carney was saying that, you know, this transatlantic alliance that Susan was talking about that we're so proud of that has kept the peace for 80 years, he's saying it doesn't really exist anymore. When you have an actor who's the head of the alliance who's threatening to attack another NATO territory. So you sit. He basically exploded this whole mythology.

John Brennan (26:17)

I mean, he. Let me play a little bit of it.

Michael Crowley (26:19)

Oh, okay, good.

John Brennan (26:19)

Let me play a little Carney.

Michael Crowley (26:22)

But more recently, great powers have begun using economic integration as weapons, tariffs as leverage, financial infrastructure as coercion, supply chains as vulnerabilities to be exploited. You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through integration. When integration becomes the source of your subordination, the multilateral institutions on which the Middle powers have relied the wto, the un, the cop, the architecture, the very architecture of collective problem solving are under threat.

John Brennan (27:03)

I mean, along with collective problem solving comes intelligence sharing, military training. I mean, it comes with a lot of other things that are, if not by treaty or law, by practice, the things that make us safer. He seems to be saying all that is at risk.

Michael Crowley (27:20)

I think it is. And part of it is because of this economic calculation where he said that integration has become a tool of subordination for the superpowers. I mean, nobody has really quite said it like that. He also said something beautiful, which is nostalgia is not a strategy. I feel like so many of us of these rule based global order folks, the norms, the norms, we are nostalgic for it, but nostalgia isn't a policy. And so, so much of what we want to do is kind of, you know, remake the souffle. He's saying that we're not gonna be able to remake the souffle. It's gonna be different and it's. And we will never have as malevolent a president as Donald Trump ever again. Knock on wood. But it's never going to be the same.

John Brennan (28:05)

It's such an important point. And I feel like in the domestic space, people like Mark Elias get us there, that there's no snapping back doj, we're not going to return to a norm. We'll create a new norm. But what was before Trump is no more. Director Brennan, how does that impact things that aren't as public, the very opaque world of intelligence gathering and national security?

Nicole Wallace (28:33)

Well, it's a tremendous impact. And to pick up on Rick's point, what's so ironic is that that international global architecture that Trump is so insulting of and dismissive of the United States has benefited more than any other country Since World War II as a result of that international global architecture. And we have these intelligence relationships around the globe that help our national security. We have developed them over time. I worked very closely with the Danes and all of the various NATO country intelligence and security services, and they relied heavily on us, but we relied heavily on them as well. And again, the devastating impact on the trust that these countries have now in the United States, that they see the United States pursuing policies that are solely in US Interests and are detrimental to others. It really does undermine the respect, the trust that these countries and these services have had toward the United States. So again, Donald Trump will one day leave the political stage. But the impact on what is happening to our relationships, particularly to our NATO alliance, the alliance that really has kept the United States and European countries and the world safe over the last 75 years or so. The impact, I think, is going to be so, so long lasting that it's unfortunate that Donald Trump has had the opportunity to do this, which is going to be felt across the political, military, intelligence and security spheres.

John Brennan (30:05)

Michael Crowley, let me quickly ask you about news that the Times had that Gavin Newsom says he was blocked from entering a US Pavilion and giving a scheduled speech. What do you know about that?

Michael Crowley (30:17)

Well, I wasn't part of that story, Nicole, but, you know, look, the presidential campaign is, are already underway. Gavin Newsom in some ways is very shrewd about making headlines and drawing attention to himself as a very combative rival of President Trump. Some people love that. I think some people think it's a little too much to the degree that President Trump had anything to do with that the Trump administration had something to do with keeping him out. That would be in keeping with a, I think, disturbing trend we're seeing to restricting access to events that normally we're more open and there's more political control not just in our country but around the world. So that would be distressing. But I would say that there are some Democrats like Newsom who think that you have to fight President Trump in unconventional ways. And some of them are looking to be the next president. And so I think we'll see more of this in the months and years to come.

John Brennan (31:15)

Michael Crowley, director John Brennan, thank you so much for starting us off today on all of this after the break. What, if anything, can Washington do about Donald Trump at this point? Congressman Jason Crow has some ideas. He'll join us next.

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John Brennan (32:43)

Here's a new Year's tip if you want to start the year off right. Get to the Container Store. They can help you organize any space in your home and pretty much your life from organizers for your fridge and pantry that make eating healthier a real possibility, to shoe storage that keeps you from being late to work. They've got solutions. They can also design a custom closet, pantry, office, even a garage that makes everyday life easier and organized. This year, find real solutions for all your resolutions at the Container Store. The United States Supreme Court today seemed to be poised to do the unthinkable, at least for them, rule against Donald Trump's whims and wishes. They all, and I'm including Samuel Alito in this, appeared deeply skeptical of Donald Trump's claim that he can abruptly fire Federal Reserve Board member Lisa Cook without giving her a way to contest the allegations he's made against her. The justices seemed, and I underscore seemed to believe that if Trump were given that power, the independence of the central bank would be at risk if they allowed him to fire Cook without going through some process of proving that he had cause to do so. And all of this under the backdrop of the DOJ criminal investigation into Fed Chair Jerome Powell, clearly looking for cause to do something there. Both Lisa Cook and Fed Chair Jerome Powell were in the public gallery during today's oral arguments, paying close attention, I'm sure. I want to bring into our coverage senior legal reporter Lisa Rubin for more on what we heard from the justices today, Rick, and is still here. Tell us more.

Rick Stengel (34:17)

Well, Nicole, you know, broadly speaking, today's argument is about the impact of the Fed on our economy. But a different kind of economy was on Justice Alito's mind, judicial economy, because he was essentially the judicial stand in for that paradigmatic political moment of who am I and what are we doing here? When he asked John Sauer, essentially like.

John Brennan (34:37)

The general lawyer for the government, correct?

Rick Stengel (34:40)

Asking him, why are we here at this posture, right? If you concede that there's nothing that we can do to reinstate a person that you've removed, why are we having a debate about whether she's entitled to notice in a hearing? Why are we debating between us what the meaning of the phrase for cause is because you'll tell me that four causes a high bar, and at the same time say out of the other side of your mouth that whatever the president does is inherently unreviewable. And that's why you have even folks like Justice Alito sounding deeply skeptical. The other person I had my eye.

John Brennan (35:11)

On, and let me just make sure I understand that. So even Alito is questioning the arguments they've made for firing Lisa Cook.

Rick Stengel (35:20)

I think Alito is questioning whether or not they're sincere in some of those arguments, essentially saying you've made one set of arguments in your brief, but you're coming here and you're pivoting. And now you're emphasizing the idea that we can't even do anything, that there's no judicial review here. That would be appropriate to reinstate Lisa Cook once she's fired, because that is a determination solely the province of the President. It's a breathtaking conception of presidential authority, but it's also a breathtaking power grab away from a judiciary. This is not a group of people.

John Brennan (35:55)

And even Alito was like, that's too far.

Rick Stengel (35:57)

Correct. And even Brett Kavanaugh. This is the other thing I was gonna share with you. Brett Kavanaugh is, like, the biggest defender of presidential expansion on this court. And with, you know, some might say with good reason. Brett Kavanaugh's the only person here who actually worked in. In a White House, as opposed to foreign administration. He has, in some of his writings, explained why he thinks the president deserves that deference to make the hard decisions that a president has to make. And yet he, too, was deeply skeptical of it. Basically telling Sauer what goes around comes around. If you're telling me that the president has a right to make this determination for any reason without judicial review, what's to stop the next guy from coming into office, firing everybody on the Fed? And then we're just having a merry go round of political appointees. When even you concede that the independence of the Fed for the purpose of stabilizing the economy is a fundamental precept of why the Fed exists, what do you think?

Michael Crowley (36:52)

What argument should they have made? Because what he's. What Kavanaugh and Alito is saying is, like, if you really believed in the imperial presidency, you wouldn't even be here asking for judicial review because you. Because it doesn't need it. So they're being hypocritical. They're saying she's fired for cause, and you can't review it because we have all power. What would the argument be that they should make that they could fire everyone on the Federal Reserve.

Rick Stengel (37:17)

That would be a very difficult argument to make and obviously not one they wanted to make. The alternative argument that they could have made is that the Fed statute itself is unconstitutional. They didn't want to go there. They agreed between the parties that the statute that requires for cause removal was sort of everybody agreed that was constitutional. We're not going to have a debate about the president's constitutional authority here. But I suppose, Rick, that's the alternative. The other alternative is you brief below the thing you think is most important. And I think part of what the justices were saying was if you really thought this was unreviewable, that should have been point one. And the briefs that you made at the district court and the brief that you submitted at the appeals court. But in instead you're here wasting our time Again. Judicial economy is a big value for the justices of the Supreme Court who only hear a few dozen cases a year. They want to know that their time is being well spent. And Sam Alito today seemed exasperated by how he was spending his time.

John Brennan (38:12)

Fascinating. Fascinating. Thank you so much for one, breaking it down and two, fielding my Supreme Court for dummies kind of question.

Rick Stengel (38:21)

Never a dummy in a thank you so much.

John Brennan (38:24)

But after the break, reaction from lawmakers on Donald Trump's insane NATO busting comments this morning from Davos, Switzerland. We'll bring you that next. Now, believe it or not, there is a growing chorus of lawmakers calling for Donald Trump to be removed from power, removed from office, using the 25th Amendment over his call to acquire Greenland. Now if that sounds familiar, the last time Trump faced public calls to be removed From by the 25th Amendment, it was being discussed by his own party, his own cabinet actually once before as well. Here's former House Speaker Republican Kevin McCarthy on the House Republican leadership call a couple days after the January 6th insurrection on the US Capitol. I guess there's a question when, when we were talking about the 25th Amendment resolution.

Michael Crowley (39:22)

Yeah.

John Brennan (39:23)

And you asked if you know what happens if it gets there after he's gone. Is is there any chance, are you hearing that he might resign? Is there any reason to think that might happen?

Nicole Wallace (39:35)

I've had some few discussions.

John Brennan (39:38)

My gut tells me no.

Michael Crowley (39:42)

I'm seriously thanking to having that conversation with him tonight. I haven't talked to him in a couple days from what I know of him.

Nicole Wallace (39:52)

I mean you guys all know him too.

Michael Crowley (39:54)

Do you think he'd ever back away? But what I think I'm going to do is I'm going to call him and it would be my recommendation you should do that. I mean, that would be my take.

John Brennan (40:09)

The problem McCarthy went on to say that he had with the 25th amendment. The reason he's talking to Liz Cheney about calling Donald Trump and telling him to resign is that it would take too long, that the whole process around the 25th amendment would take too long. Kevin McCarthy, who single handedly resuscitates Donald Trump about 60 days after that. Now, after Donald Trump's performance today in Davos, Switzerland, where many argue he's less stable than he was when his removal was seriously considered before by Republicans. Well, the focus today has been that Trump seemed to watch back the threat to take Greenland by military force. For now, he did nothing short of scramble the world order and put our alliances into question. As friend of this show, Sarah Longwell puts it, quote, trump derangement syndrome is watching everything Trump is doing right now and not immediately advocating for the 25th Amendment. I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. He's a member of the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees. Congressman, your reaction to what not just Americans witnessed, but the world witnessed from America's president today?

Michael Crowley (41:20)

Well, listen, Nicole, I mean, this president is unstable. He is corrupt. He's interested only in his own power. He always has been. You know, I prosecuted the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump. Impeachment is something I know a lot about. I was one of the House impeachment managers. Managers sat there on the Senate floor for weeks making the case about how corrupt and unstable and unfit for office Donald Trump was then. And it certainly has only gotten worse. You know, we talked about January 6th. We talk about him threatening our allies. We talk about him abusing our military. We talk about him threatening to send our military into our cities and to go to war with our own people. This president is a danger to this country and this demise. So what I'm doing is I'm looking at all options. All of our options must be on the table from impeachment, the 25th Amendment to winning elections, which is actually my primary goal right now as the recruitment chair for House Democrats, is to win elections and to take power away from Donald Trump.

John Brennan (42:21)

It's also, I guess, the only thing that's worked right. Kevin McCarthy says the 25th Amendment won't work. Republicans balk. Mitch McConnell actually refers Donald Trump to DOJ for criminal prosecution after in his Senate trial. But at least In November of 2024, Democrats run the table when elections are had. What can you Say more about the political solution and either why that's preferable or your confidence in its ability to work.

Michael Crowley (42:54)

Yeah, I've lost confidence in Republicans ability to actually hold Donald Trump accountable. If I had a dollar every time I've heard a Republican say, oh, this is it, this is the last straw. Donald Trump has gone too far. We're going to hold him accountable, then I'd be able to take me, you and everybody in this rotunda around me out to a really nice steak dinner tonight. So I'm not going to hope that's going to happen. My job is to actually force it to happen. Right. And forcing it to happen, what that means is winning elections. Donald Trump cares about politics. That's the only thing he really cares about. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go across the country and support these candidates. We're going to take power away from him. And everybody who has lied to me, everybody who has said they're going to do the right thing and step up in defense of this Constitution and our country, who is here in the Capitol with me and has failed to do so, we're going to send them home packing because they've had their time, they've had their chance, it's over. They don't have any chances left.

John Brennan (43:58)

It seems to me that Donald Trump understands that elections are a grave threat to him. He's talked about canceling them. Marjorie Taylor Greene, in her announcement that she's leaving, talked about the foregone conclusion that Democrats would win. What are your concerns about the safety of the elections themselves?

Michael Crowley (44:19)

Well, of course I'm worried about that. Why? Why wouldn't anybody who's paying attention be worried about that? You have Donald Trump, who keeps on calling into question whether or not we should have elections. He's threatened to send the military into polling stations, which, by the way, is a violation of U.S. criminal law. Which is why I and many other veterans repeatedly remind our veterans that the Constitution and the law is their North Star and that they have an obligation to follow the law. So hope is not a plan. I am done hoping. I am going to look at every particular contingency. I'm going to look at everything that Donald Trump could do. I fully expect them to try to cheat, to try to bend the arc in their favor. I mean, already they're cramming through gerrymandering in every state. They started the gerrymandering battle. We, of course, are responding because we're not going to go into a fight with our hands tied behind our back. That would be a dereliction of duty in my estimation. So I'm not going to leave anything the chance. We're going to look at everything this president and his cronies and political hacks can do. We're going to be ready.

John Brennan (45:24)

Congressman Jason Crow, thank you for taking some time to talk to us today. We appreciate you. Rick Stengo, we appreciate you for being here for the whole hour. Thank you so much, my friend. We're going to sneak in a quick break. We'll be right back on the OTHER side. Stay with us. Ahead of what is expected to be blockbuster public testimony about the criminal case against Donald Trump, former special counsel Jack Smith's legal team is out with a statement previewing what he is expected to say before the House Judiciary Committee tomorrow. According to his lawyers, Jack Smith will explain why he believes that his investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Donald Trump engaged in criminal activity. Jack Smith's testimony will reiterate that there was overwhelming evidence that President Trump engaged in an unprecedented criminal scheme to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. Jack Smith will note that there was similarly overwhelming evidence that President Trump willfully retained highly classified documents after he left office in January of 2021, storing them at Mar a Lago. You can watch live coverage of Jack Smith's testimony all day long right here, beginning at 10:00am Eastern. And then there is special primetime coverage starting at 8pm tomorrow. Rachel Maddow leads the coverage with our primetime colleagues as all of us will break down Jack Smith's testimony after the break. More on Donald Trump's claim that the U.S. has, quote, gotten nothing from our NATO allies. The next hour of deadline. White House starts after a quick break. Stay with us. Here's a New Year's tip. If you want to start the year off right, get to the Container Store. They can help you organize any space in your home and pretty much your life from organizers for your fridge and pantry that make eating healthier a real possibility to shoe storage that keeps you from being late to work. They've got solutions. They can also design a custom closet, pantry, office, even a garage that makes everyday life easier. And organized this year, find real solutions for all your resolutions at the Container Store.