← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“The United States’ allies refuse to be bullied”
00:41:40
Nicolle Wallace covers the mountain of bad headlines related to the war in Iran: six more U.S. servicemembers have died, more than 140 have been injured, U.S. allies are refusing to help Trump reopen the Strait of Hormuz, claiming that they won’t take part in a war they did not start, and gas prices don’t seem to be coming down any time soon.
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- [00:07]
Nicole Wallace
Hi there, everyone. It's four o' clock in New York, day 17 of the war with Iran, and here's where things stand. Thirteen U.S. service members have lost their lives. More than 140 have been injured. On the unintended consequences side of the House, Donald Trump is trying and failing to bully our allies into helping him break Iran's stranglehold on the Strait of Hormuz, through which one fifth of the world's oil supply travels. The price of gas continues to soar. And Donald Trump's energy secretary admits that there is no guarantee that prices will come down soon. Facing a mountain of bad headlines, Team Trump's response to threaten to revoke the broadcast licenses of networks who dare to report the truth now in its third week. And the war with Iran does not look anything like the, quote, little excursion Trump claimed today. An Iranian drone struck Dubai's airport that is one of the busiest in the world, causing a new round of disruptions. Israel is expanding its operations in southern Lebanon to fight Hezbollah here at home. Oil prices now average $3.71 a gallon. That is up almost 25 cents from one week ago. Pressed about the spike in prices, Trump's energy secretary, that's Chris Wright, tried to say that this is a case of short term pain for long term gain before backing off that claim in a matter of seconds.
- [01:27]
Michael Crowley
This is why President Trump needed to act now, before to stop the killing of American soldiers, to stop the destabilization in the region, and to end Iran's ability to threaten energy markets. Yes, we go through this period of short term disruption, but better to do it now than to have a nuclear armed Iran.
- [01:46]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Are you really sure it's going to be short term?
- [01:50]
Nicole Wallace
Can you guarantee it'll just be weeks before prices go down?
- [01:55]
Michael Crowley
Hey, there's no guarantees in wars at all. I can guarantee this situation would be dramatically worse without this military operation to defang the Iranian regime.
- [02:08]
Nicole Wallace
Now the Trump administration is asking for help to solve the oil supply crisis it created. The Wall Street Journal reports that the administration wants to cobble together a coalition of countries that will escort ships to the Strait of Hormuz. The plan, though, falls apart the minute you try to read the fine print. Wall Street Journal explains, quote, the U.S. and potential coalition countries are still discussing whether those operations would begin before or after the war ends. New York Times reports that no one has signed up from their report. Quote, the sharpest refusal to his belated effort to build an international coalition against Iran came Monday from Germany, whose defense minister said, quote, this is not Our war, we did not start it, end quote. Top officials in Japan, Italy and Australia said Monday that their countries will not participate in efforts to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Others were non committal, including France, South Korea and Britain, whose Prime Minister Keir Starmer said his country, quote, would not be drawn into wider war. From our allies who Donald Trump has spent more than a year denigrating and maligning their sacrifices in past wars, Donald Trump now would like those same allies to sign up to put their soldiers in harm's way for a war that Donald Trump started without any of their input.
- [03:27]
Donald Trump
Watch we have some countries where we have 45,000 soldiers, great soldiers, protecting them from home, harm's way. And we have done a great job. And we want to know, do you have any minesweepers? Well, would rather not get involved, sir. I said, you mean for 40 years we're protecting you and you don't want to get involved in something that is very minor, very few shots going to be taken because they don't have many shots left. But they said we'd rather not get involved.
- [04:06]
Nicole Wallace
As Trump's efforts to find a solution to the oil supply crisis falter, the New York Times is reporting that here at home, the war with Iran puts Donald Trump further from his goals of lowering interest rates. From that reporting, quote, officials at the Fed are widely expected to hold rates steady at a range of 3.5% to 3.75%, extending a pause that began in January. Most officials believe rates at this level are only modestly restraining growth, if at all, suggesting little rush to change course. For the time being, that approach is directly at odds with what Trump wants. Donald Trump faltering in his efforts to solve an oil supply crisis that threatens to turn into an economic crunch is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. New York Times diplomatic correspondent Michael Crowley is here. Also joining us, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling is here. He served as a commanding general the U.S. army in Europe. His new book, if I Don't A Father's Wartime Journal is amazing. It is out now and with me at the table. Executive editor and New York bureau chief of the Economist Charlotte Howard is here. I'm torn between which one of you to start with, but I'm going to just follow on to the economic indicators flashing bright yellow, maybe even red.
- [05:22]
Charlotte Howard
Well, we've had some data in recent days about consumer prices in January which seem to be creeping up. So even before this war began, there was upward pressure on prices, which was at odds with the Trump administration's long push to get this Federal Reserve to lower interest rates. And I think now that you see oil prices consistently above $100 a barrel, it seems very, very unlikely. Not just that the Fed won't lower interest rates at its meeting in March, but even looking further ahead, it seems very unlikely that this Federal Reserve is going to take steps to lower interest rates. And of course, this comes at a time when there's been just historic friction between the administration and Jerome Powell.
- [05:59]
Nicole Wallace
You had a judge trying to prosecute him.
- [06:01]
Charlotte Howard
Exactly. A judge rejected the effort to subpoena Jerome Powell just a few days ago. So even that might have been this morning. Excuse me. And so, you know, it's quite an interesting moment for the Fed. But I do think you see the Trump administration realizing the extent to which it cannot control the economic fallout from this war. It cannot bully, or at least so far has been unable to bully allies into participating in an effort to open up the Strait of Hormuz. Again, it seems that insulting allies is not a way to get them to work with you.
- [06:33]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, exactly.
- [06:34]
Charlotte Howard
I mean, Pete Hegseth calling war deliberations pearl clutching on the part of America's allies. So I really think that you're seeing right now the Trump administration trying to throw its weight around, but without much effect.
- [06:47]
Nicole Wallace
I want to ask you about the strikes in Dubai. I mean, this has been a place that has been such a magnet for business, for tourism, for development. It has exploded in popularity. People have relocated from all over the world and now very much not immune from this widening war.
- [07:09]
Charlotte Howard
Yeah, I think there's been a real effort on behalf of not just Dubai, but of course, Abu Dhabi as well, to position themselves as safe havens within a volatile region with quite a lot of success. You know, you've seen as you just alluded to, lots of foreign multinationals coming in, people expats setting up within Dubai. And I think the illusion of security has been shattered in recent weeks. And so when you think about the participation of Gulf states in this war, that's something that we need to continue to watch because there are real risks to America's allies in the region. So the conflict in that regard may continue to escalate.
- [07:49]
Nicole Wallace
Michael Crowley, the Trump administration really, from top to bottom, has been at war against journalists covering the war. Some of it may have started with the accurate coverage of the service men and women who lost their lives in the plane crash in Iraq, but it certainly extended through Pete Hegseth's briefing on Friday where he said Larry Ellison can't take over cnn. Soon enough, Brendan Carr got in on the game, threatening to revoke licenses. The Wall Street Journal and the New York Times have had some extraordinary reporting on how haphazard not just the entry into the war has been, but the response to the Strait of Hormuz. Trump has called them straits. It's just one. He's said several times publicly that they should just go for it. Like, go through as though there's either a lack of understanding about the insurance issues or the military issues and. Or both. And. And even those comments I played today said they won't fire at you because there's nothing left to fire. I've not seen a single military analyst on any network echo that assessment. Just take me through where things stand.
- [08:58]
Michael Crowley
Yeah, Nicole. And it's unfortunate, because the argument here is that the media is reflexively criticizing anything President Trump does and is overplaying a sense of chaos and confusion. And first of all, I would just note that a huge number of our headlines are just factually stating that there's a massive aerial campaign underway. We're hitting hundreds of Iranian targets, inflicting massive damage, killing Iranian leaders. And the TV networks carry the briefings that the Pentagon does live, so giving them a platform to get their views out in an unfettered way. And President Trump, of course, when he speaks, usually gets live coverage. So the administrator, you know, the basic facts and the administration's message are getting out there. There seems to be this puzzling objection to covering casualties. And when what preliminary investigation the US Government says was a US Tomahawk missile hit a girl's school and killed, you know, 175 or so innocent Iranians, many of them children. We did report aggressively on it, as did other outlets. And I would note that the administration tried to sort of deflect and dissemble President Trump in particular. So on their side of the ledger, there's not always been transparency. And there has been, in that particular case, an effort to sweep what looks like a terrible tragedy under the rug. So it's frustrating to hear that, no doubt. And look, the other piece of this is that there's no contesting the fact that the administration's message has been all over the place. And President Trump has repeatedly cited different goals for this mission, at times has said it has involved protecting the Iranian people from their regime, taking out and replacing the regime, finding leaders he can work with. He's pretty consistent in talking about the nuclear program and the missile program. But these are different threads. And from the words of the president and his senior advisors, they don't add up to a clear, coherent war plan. And so I think that that's been reflected in the coverage. But I think to lash out at the media is not fair. And just to finish here, I would say that what you have right now is a huge question mark. You know, a lot of people had suspected that by now President Trump might just declare victory and call this off and try to get back to lower oil prices, as former Secretary of State Antony Blinken put it last week, declare victory. And having traded one ayatollah for another, but it looks like he's hanging in there for now, and they've got. And he's suggesting they're going to solve this problem in the Strait of Hormuz. Nicole, It's a huge problem. It's not something you can do quickly. It's not a scenario that he prepared the American public for. It's not a scenario that he himself seems to have thought through in a lot of detail. And I would point in particular to the fact that he's now asking for help from US Allies who were totally excluded from the planning and preparation of this, who were caught by surprise and in some cases actually sort of insulted and said, you know, you're not welcome. And now the president needs them for this problem from hell in the Strait of Hormuz. And again, I don't see a plan. So the press coverage is gonna reflect that, and we're probably in for more criticism.
- [12:38]
Nicole Wallace
I just jotted down a note when I came out here. He's attacked over the weekend. Cnn, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Europe, NATO. I wonder, you know, we were on the air together, Michael Crowley, when Rubio made one of his early trips to the Hill, where Rubio made clear that an attack on America was not an imminent threat. He said this publicly, but that Israel was going to strike. Is the reason for staying in still attached to Israel's military and strategic decisions, or have they decoupled our calculations from Israel's?
- [13:17]
Michael Crowley
Nicole, I think our full understanding of this is yet to come. And we at the Times and all my colleagues in the media I know, are doing a lot of aggressive reporting to try to figure out what the relationship and cooperation and mind meld is with Bibi Netanyahu right now. You can imagine a lot of ways in which Trump's interests diverge from Netanyahu's. And honestly, I think that, and I hear this from the experts I talk to, that Trump is much more interested in kind of a tidy end of this conflict sooner than later, get oil prices back down, get ready for the midterms. Netanyahu, I think, is happy to prolong a campaign in Iran for a longer time and probably has a higher tolerance for disorder and a lack of clarity in Iran as long as they're being hammered and not getting their nuclear and missile programs back off the ground. So I think there's a divergence of long term interests that is probably causing more tension behind the scenes than we fully appreciate. But I can't tell you confidently right now that I know the degree to which that is an open argument between them.
- [14:39]
Nicole Wallace
Let me play for all of you. Donald Trump's attack, the country that we have been so close to in past wars, it's described as the one with which we have a special relationship. This is Donald Trump's attack on the Prime Minister of the UK for you, General Hartley,
- [14:57]
Michael Crowley
have your advisors told you anything in terms of how long we can expect gas prices as high as they are right now?
- [15:04]
Donald Trump
I don't need advisers to tell me that I know what it is. You know, Prime Minister of UK United Kingdom yesterday told me, I'm meeting with my team to make a determination. I said, you don't need to meet with the team. You're the Prime Minister, you can make your own. Why do you have to meet with your team to find out whether or not you're going to send some minesweepers to us or to send some boats? I said, you don't have to meet with your team. It's the same thing here. I can tell you that when this is over, oil prices are going to go down very, very rapidly. So is inflation, so is everything else. But frankly, much more important than short term or even long term oil prices. You can't let the most violent, vicious country in the last 50 years have a nuclear weapon.
- [16:03]
Nicole Wallace
General, I used to pour through the papers to find out all of the things I didn't understand about Trump. Now I have taken to watching him live. This is the most incredible thing he said in years. Quote, you don't have to meet with your team. Why do you have to meet with your team? The idea that our leader, viewed around the world by foreign leaders, is the person leading the mighty government of the United States of America. All the assets inside the CIA, all the assets at the Pentagon, all the assets inside the State Department, says this about the Prime Minister. Why does he have to meet this team? Because they tell you how many boats they are, they tell you where the threats are. They tell you that if you start A war with Iran. Someone on your team, if you talk to them, will tell you that the Strait of Hormuz will close and gas prices will soar ahead of the midterm elections. What do you see here on day 17, General?
- [16:59]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Well, that's a good setup, Nicole. What I see is there's an individual who thinks he's the smartest man, not just in the room, but in all the government, and he doesn't need anyone's help. That's really unfortunate because when you're in these kind of complex situations and the toughest of decisions rise to the top, it's nice to have someone who can help you out. You know, I've just been listening to both Charlotte and Michael. They've been given some terrific assessments of their different areas. And in both cases, what I repeatedly heard was that there's tension between the US Economic advisors, there's tension between the President and the media, there's tension between the administration and the Israeli administration. And your last segment just there said that there's tension with all of our allies, and that's not a good way, as Michael just said, to find a tidy way to end the war. I can guarantee you there's going to be no tidiness in the next couple of weeks. This is a conflict that doesn't have a good solution right now, and it's not going to happen because the President gets minesweepers from a country or other countries who he is insulted repeatedly, not only personally, but also in official documents. I reviewed both the National Security Strategy and the National Defense Strategy today that were issued a couple of months ago by both the White House and the Defense Department. And in both of those documents, formally, there was a degree of insulting of our allies who were do nothings and know nothings and that we have supported for the last 50 years. And in fact, the President just said that in the recording you played. And then not only that, but then to make fun of the way they speak to them and how they make decisions within their government. Just seems to not hold an understanding of how leaders in foreign governments are really beholden more to their national security interest versus the national security interest of the United States. I don't think the President gets that. He thinks everyone around the world should be a servant to us. And that's troubling to me because he has really created a significant amount of distrust with our allies so that they don't want to help us. That's human nature. You don't wanna help someone who's been bullying you for the last 14 months.
- [19:34]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, I think there's also a real ignorance of what their populations think when the American president says this about their sacrifices in the wars in which they came to fight alongside us. I think he said this about the Danish sacrifices in Afghanistan, that they stay, quote, far away from the front lines, which isn't true and certainly doesn't give any of these leaders any support from their own constituents to help Donald Trump. All right, no one's going anywhere. There's much more to show you from the weekend. More with our guests about how Trump views American service members that he's thrown into the middle of a war with Iran. From fundraising off of them to refusing to engage with reporters about their sacrifices. Plus the roadblock to Trump's campaign of retribution. Prosecutors in the Trump led Department of justice struggling with the basic preliminary functions of their jobs as judges continue to question the Department of Justice. And later in the broadcast, Donald Trump completely losing it over just how bad the war is going and playing, trying to muzzle the media and the only way a wannabe dictator knows how. We'll show you all of that and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [20:56]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
What's it like? It's devastating if you don't know them. It's something that will put you under the table if you really know them. And there's so many of them. There are so many of them and they're all so young. So. Yeah. And by the way, it's been 20 years. Well, it's been 15 years since I got out of the Army. I still think about them every day.
- [21:23]
Nicole Wallace
That was Jeremy Hertling. He talks to me for this week's brand new episode of the Best People podcast. We were talking about what it's like to lose a young person, a soldier that you know. And his point there of what it's like if you don't know them and the added pain if you do. Now, a total of 13 US service members have died in this war this month supporting US Military operations in Iran. The Pentagon released the names of all six Air Force airmen who were killed on Thursday when their refueling plant crashed over Iraq. The youngest is 28 year old tech sergeant Tyler Simmons. His family is calling out Donald Trump. Simmons cousin told NBC4 in Columbus, quote, this could have been prevented. We didn't need to be in this war. This is uncalled for and this is what we get. End quote. Trump continues to seem to be trying to disrespect the members of the fallen, including releasing A new fundraising email pegged to the war in Iran that features his own photo, a photo of him wearing a baseball cap at the first dignified transfer of US Soldiers killed in this war. Yesterday, Trump refused to answer a question about the most recent deaths in Iran. Watch. Do you know how much on the six service members? No. We're back with Michael Jemmer Hertling and Charlotte General Hertling. I hope that didn't take you by surprise. That conversation is live now, and that piece of it is so powerful, but it's also so universal. Just about everybody, and this doesn't know any partisan affiliation, is deeply moved by the sacrifice of the men and women of the military. And as you and I talked about in the conversation, maybe this is like the one thing that Trump is doing very much in private. Maybe it's happening and we just don't see it. But his public posture is important, too. As the country's commander in chief, how do you evaluate his public performance in honoring those who are serving in the military?
- [23:32]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Yeah. And, Nicole, if your team could put that picture up again, it would be great. But how I evaluate him is the fact that he is not only the president, he's the commander in chief. And that word commander, in any kind of title means that you're caring for those people and not just those six on the screen. Each one of those six is a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, a wife, a husband perhaps. But they all have loved ones somewhere. And we can look at that picture and really feel heartsick, because those young people, all with the smiling. Well, most of them with the smiling faces, sacrificed for what they felt was something bigger than themselves. The defense of the nation. And that's why politicians should take great care when they send people into harm's way. But not only that. After we just saw those six faces, there are literally hundreds of faces who will go to their memorial services. There are the fellow service members who will honor all of them in the kind of ceremonies that we all conduct. This is serious business. And if you're a commander, if you're a battalion commander, a company commander, or the commander in chief, you should have the same emotions about those who sacrifice their lives under your command. And you should never forget them. And you can't just brush them off. And you certainly can't be using memes coming out of the White House Communication office that treats this as a game. It's not a game. It's life and death. As we talked about the other day,
- [25:18]
Nicole Wallace
let me do something I should have done at the beginning Let me read the names. You can put the picture back up. Control room. It's Tech Sergeant Tyler Simmons, 28 years old, from Columbus, Ohio. Captain Curtis Angst, 30, of Wilmington, Ohio. He's the one that the general said isn't smiling in his photo, but it's a very official photo. The others look a little more. A little more candid. Major John Kleiner. Kleiner, 33, of Auburn, Alabama. Captain Ariana Savino, 31, of Covington, Washington. Tech Sergeant Ashley Pruitt, 34, of Bardstown, Kentucky. Captain Seth Koval, 38, of Mooresville, Indiana. General. What, in this sort of time of families putting out statements and having access to social media, what, in your sense is the best way to honor families in this moment?
- [26:22]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, you have to provide them support. You have to help them understand. We talked the other day about the make it Matter box and how important that is, that you then not only mourn these individuals, you also celebrate their lives, celebrate their service, celebrate the fact that they chose to do something to contribute to an organization that is bigger than self. But then really, the only thing you can do after that's all over is you go out and try and do the best you can to make it matter for the future of our nation, of our government, and contribute in some way or another in a very positive way, and understand that these individuals provided this sacrifice for the rest of us. We can only give it back by giving it back in other ways.
- [27:24]
Nicole Wallace
Michael Crowley, I know it's not fair to make you follow that in General Hart Lane, but I just want to come to you with some reporting on Donald Trump's conduct on this front. Mississippi now is reporting that Donald Trump's political action committee this week sent a fundraising email promising donors, quote, private national security briefings by the president himself and featuring a photo from the dignified transfer for US Service members killed in Kuwait. We talk a lot about the people around Trump. Obviously, there isn't anyone around his political action committee this week who may have thought that was over a line.
- [28:02]
Michael Crowley
Well, Nicole, this is a president for whom crossing lines is normal. So I understand people say that certain things shouldn't be normalized and people shouldn't say that just because it's Donald Trump. It's okay. But, you know, I can't say that I'm, I'm all that surprised. I can't think of a. Of anything quite like it before, and, you know, it's surprising. But, you know, I would say that, look, I don't have anything to add to the general's words about the soldiers who were tragically killed, I would say that one thing that President Trump says that is true on a regular basis and not confusing and not contradictory is that the American military is awe inspiring. I mean, he, you know, he takes credit for having built it up, but it's really a machine that was built over a long period of time and we have really created an incredible force. And you know, I think part of what's happening in this very volatile moment is the president is appreciating the incredible capabilities that we have. I think that technology has taken to another level recently and feels like he can conduct operations like this with I guess what he would consider a tolerable level of casualties. We'll see how that changes and how many more lives are lost in this operation. But a contribution I can make to this is just say it really is incredible how good our military is right now.
- [29:50]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, I guess the only thing I would push back on is I'm not sure that he appreciates them as much as he's trying to appropriate their awe inspiring bravery after denigrating it at multiple points in his first term as president. But no pushback. Here they are indeed.
- [30:07]
Michael Crowley
Just quickly. All I mean is that he understands the capabilities and he is using them now in a very liberal or I should say aggressive way because he realizes how much they can accomplish.
- [30:18]
Nicole Wallace
Right, Right. Michael Crowley, thank you. I'm sorry for making you go after General Hertling. Charlotte, thank you for being part of this conversation. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you for being my guest on this week's podcast. Everyone should listen to it. Much more of the things that we just talked about. And thank you for starting us off today. There's the code. You can scan the QR code or listen to the podcast wherever you get your podcast after the break. Donald Trump has long claimed that this Justice Department works just for him. But total control over the legal system has, thank God, met some real guardrails lately. We'll tell you about it next. Donald Trump's political retribution campaign as carried out by his allies in the Department of Justice is in some respects proving to be a big flop. The latest failure delivered by Judge James Boasberg, who quashed the subpoenas targeting Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. New York Times reports today it showed that, quote, prosecutors are floundering in the most basic steps of criminal investigations into those President Trump wants scrutinize. Jeanine Pirro, who is overseeing the case, attempted to keep it alive today when she asked Judge Boasberg to reconsider quashing the subpoenas, which seems unlikely to end in her favor given just how scathing Judge Boasberg's decision was. I want to bring in New York Times Justice Department reporter Glenn Thrush. Also joining us, former Department of Justice pardon attorney Liz Oyer is here. She was fired by Trump's Justice Department last March after refusing to reinstate actor Mel Gibson's gun rights. Glenn Thrush, take me through the reporting and just explain how basic this step is and how most judges in good faith, don't have friction, especially with federal prosecutors, over this effort, this step.
- [32:11]
Glenn Thrush
Well, this is what happens when cases are, you know, ordered up, like Uber rides or Uber eats, orders by the White House. And the people downstream from this are essentially compelled to do it or else they, they can hit the tiles or incur the wrath of the President of the United States.
- [32:30]
Lieutenant General Mark Hertling
Right.
- [32:31]
Glenn Thrush
So basically, he just wanted Jerome Powell to be targeted legally, prosecutorially, as, as a form of both retribution for Powell not complying with his demands on interest rates, but also as a way to, to exert pressure on the Federal Reserve and to break down the traditional independence that, that has really made it a cornerstone of economic stability in the country. And there just wasn't much there. So what, what did they look at? Bill Pulte, Trump's housing guru, a man, by the way, I should say, isn't doing very much to address the core issue of affordability, which is likely to be a major issue in the midterms. But anyway, Bill Pulte came up with the idea of scrutinizing one of the people who came up with the idea of sort of scrutinizing the renovations at the Federal Reserve. And Jeanine Pirro was handed this and assigned it to some prosecutors who proceeded to try to get in touch with Powell. That didn't happen. And that kind of compelled Pirro to issue subpoenas. And that's what Judge Boasberg quashed, the basic way that Pirro has been dealing with this, and to some extent, she has been probably among the most successful Trump subordinates in dead ending some of his edicts. And she has adopted what appears from the outside to be a somewhat cynical, if effective approach, which is to simply present this material to judges and grand juries and let them kill it. Because let me tell you something, there isn't much of a percentage in telling Donald Trump no. So I think Pirro has essentially been doing some version of death by grand jury or death by judge, present these things to them. In this case, the subpoenas that Boasberg said didn't have any grounding in evidence or legality and let them do the dirty work for her. So that is, I think, what we are seeing here, which is a pressure valve that Pirro has found to figure out a way to sideline some of these investigations without having to say no to Donald Trump.
- [34:48]
Nicole Wallace
Well, Liz, the problem with that, if that is what her calculation is, is that they result in threats for judges. Trump on Truth Social called for, quote, serious disciplinary action on federal Judge James Boasberg and other corrupt judges. Said SCOTUS has become little more than a weaponized and unjust political organization. After Trump uses his platform to attack individual judges by name. They often get pizzas sent to them in the name of the son of Justice Esther Salas, whose son was murdered. So it doesn't really put anything positive or safe in motion for the judges who get maligned by Trump. But I guess asking them to stand up to Trump is something that isn't going to happen. The other thing that happens, and this is in the story, is that DOJ has no credibility. Let me read this part of the story. As remarkable as Judge Boasberg's ruling was, it reflected a broader trend of judges across the country who increasingly doubt the word of lawyers from the Justice Department. Those lawyers have traditionally enjoyed a solid bond of trust with courts, known in legal parlance as the presumption of regularity. But that presumption has eroded over the past year. Just talk about how they have gone about the business out in full view of destroying the credibility of the Department of Justice.
- [36:00]
Liz Oyer
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here, Nicole. This appears to be, by my count, at least the sixth of Donald Trump's purported revenge prosecutions that has failed. And at least three of them have been under the auspices of Jeanine Pirro's office. This comes on the heels of her failed attempt to get charges against six Democratic members of Congress who made this video warning folks that they should not adhere to unlawful orders, people in the military. She also reportedly failed to be able to get charges related to President Biden's use of the auto pen, which was another subject that Trump wanted for a criminal investigation. So he's really failing to be able to get these charges. And the judges are holding strong and doing their jobs. And what's remarkable that we're seeing is that these cases are failing very early in the process. It's really extraordinary. We do sometimes see situations where charges are brought and they're ultimately rejected. By a jury. There's an acquittal after evidence is presented. But what we have seen recently is that cases are failing either in the grand jury, they're not even able to get an indictment, or judges are dismissing indictments very shortly after they're returned, which is what happened in the initial indictment of James Comey and Letitia James or he year. Even in the grand jury subpoena investigation process, which is an extremely early phase of the proceeding. These cases are just not even getting off the ground. I think we can see from the fact that Jeanine Pirro felt that she needed to have a press conference and blame Judge Boasberg for this, that she is under a tremendous amount of pressure to be able to make these cases and she felt that she needed to justify that. The president, of course, went on this tirade against Judge Boasberg, said he should be held accountable for misconduct. But they've already actually tried to do that with Boasberg. Pam Bondi actually filed a judicial misconduct complaint against him, which was dismissed late last year.
- [37:59]
Nicole Wallace
It's amazing. Since you guys have been talking, another judge has delivered another blow to the Trump administration. U.S. district Court blocked the Trump administration from implementing a series of decisions on vaccines and made over the last year by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Of SNL fame. No one's going anywhere. We're going to sneak in a quick break and we'll come back to this conversation on the other side. Glenn, so getting an indictment is this low standard where you've told. We've talked before about how you could indict a ham sandwich Is the expression getting a subpoena is even easier than the sandwich. What do they do now?
- [38:41]
Glenn Thrush
Not too much, she said on Friday. And by the way, I got to tell you, it was an interesting experience. I think we had a half an hour. I happened to be in the neighborhood near Jeanine Pirro's office. So I was able to get to this press conference. She said two things. She was going to ask Boasberg to reconsider his decision, which he clearly will not. And then she discussed appeal. I haven't checked the docket today. I haven't seen whether or not she'll appeal. It's a very, very low likelihood she's going to get what she wants out of this.
- [39:09]
Nicole Wallace
Liz, what does it say about a department that can't get a conviction, can't get an indictment, and can't begin their investigations because they can't get a subpoena?
- [39:20]
Liz Oyer
Well, it really shows how, just absolutely off base, the priorities of this DOJ are this is a Justice Department that has lost thousands of experienced lawyers since the start of this administration. Staffing is very low and they are wasting a traffic tremendous amount of precious time and resources on frivolous investigations that have no basis in fact, no basis in law, completely untethered to reality when there are actual crimes that are being committed that the Justice Department could and should be investigating if it properly allocated its time and resources.
- [39:57]
Nicole Wallace
It's such a tragedy with everything going on. Glenn Thresh, thank you for bringing our eyes and ears. Liz Oyer, thank you for joining us on this today. Up next for us, Kristi Noem has been accused of lying to Congress not one time, not two times, but at least four times last month. Will that be investigated? Maybe not in this administration, but we'll explain. If DOJ is tired of all that losing, maybe they should try crimes committed in full view of everybody. Top Democrats on the House and Senate Judiciary committees are calling on Pam Bondi to investigate whether outgoing Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem lied under oath before Congress earlier this month. They've sent a referral to the Justice Department focusing on her testimony in full view of their committees. Their perjury accusation includes four areas she was asked about, including her claim that DHS has not violated court orders related to its immigration enforcement. Senator Dick Durbin and Congressman Jamie Raskin also say she lied about the bidding process for a DHS contract. On that television ad campaign she said Donald Trump knew about and signed off on, we'll note he said something very different from their letter, quote, While we have low expectations that you will pursue this matter, given your partisan weaponization of the Department of Justice, we note that the statute of limitations for perjury and for knowingly and willfully making false statements to Congress is five years. We'll stay on top of that. When we come back, Donald Trump and his administration going to war over coverage of the war will bring you the latest threat to news organizations and coverage Trump doesn't like. When DEADLINE White House continues after a quick break.