← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Thuggery”
00:46:21
Nicolle Wallace covers Donald Trump’s escalation of force in Chicago as a judge hits back on his federal deployment to Portland.
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- [00:00]
Nicole Wallace
Deadline. White House is brought to you by Progressive, where drivers who save by switching save nearly $750 on average. Plus auto customers qualify for an average of 7 discounts. Quote now@progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $744 by new customers surveyed who save with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. Saturday, October 11th from New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Ruhle and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today.
- [01:10]
Hi there everyone. It's 4 o' clock in New York. Happy Monday. Today is the day when the battle for democracy has perhaps never been clearer. The courts for now still holding up the rule of law and ruling in favor of cities and states opposing Donald Trump's efforts to militarize our cities and to use troops against what Trump describes as, quote, the enemy within. Today, the state of Illinois is suing the Trump administration to stop the deployment of National Guard troops to Chicago. Trump has ordered 400 troops to be mobilized from Texas and then to be sent to Chicago and Portland, Oregon, and that is despite a court order preventing any deployment to the latter. As for Chicago, Governor J.B. pritzker has long opposed the deployment of troops to his city, saying there is no need for them. Here's what he said in a press conference conference in the last hour.
- [02:01]
J.B. Pritzker
I spent the days and weeks following that out and about in our communities, in Bronzeville, in Austin, in Little Village, Berwyn, South Shore and others. Walking and talking and listening to real Chicagoans and local business owners. Something Donald Trump, Greg Bevino, Tom Homan and Kristi Noem have never bothered to do. No insurrections, no invasions. The folks in the neighborhoods do not want armed troops marching in their streets when it comes to public safety. They want civilian law enforcement when they need them and jobs and after school programs for kids in the neighborhoods. They do not want Donald Trump to occupy the their communities. Trump and the thuggery that his agents have brought has actively made us less safe.
- [02:59]
Nicole Wallace
Dramatic scenes unfolded in the city of Chicago over the last 48 hours. One woman was shot by federal agents that sparked further protests and clashes. Agents were also seen throwing tear gas at people on a busy street. On Friday, a Chicago elected official was handcuffed in a hospital emergency room after she asked ICE agents whether they had a warrant to arrest a resident. She will be our guest later in the broadcast. Attorneys for the state of Illinois sum it up like this quote, defendants provocative and arbitrary actions have threatened to undermine public safety by inciting a public outcry when it comes to deploying troops from other states. Illinois says this, quote, the American people, regardless of where they reside, should not live under the threat of occupation by the United States military, particularly not simply because their city or state leadership has fallen out of a president's favor. A battle for the rule of law in this country playing out on the streets of Chicago and other American cities is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends on the ground for us in Chicago. MSNBC senior national political correspondent Jacob Sobroff will join us in a moment. He is at that news conference we just played for you with the governor. Also Joining us, retired U.S. marine Corps Lt. Col. Amy McGrath, who today announced she is running for the open Senate seat in Kentucky. We'll talk about that later, too. And joining me at the table is NYU law professor, MSNBC legal analyst Melissa Murray. Also joining us, MSNBC senior White House correspondent Vaughn Hilliard. Melissa Murray, let me start with you and just ask if you agree with this idea that for now the courts are holding and they are not because of how they're deciding, but that they are still evaluating the facts on the ground and they happen to be ruling in favor of the cities and states.
- [04:50]
Melissa Murray
Yeah, I think that's really important to remember that these district courts aren't just flying off the handle and issuing decisions. They are actually amassing evidence. The order from the district judge in Oregon that came out this weekend was very detailed about when the order for federalization of the National Guard in Portland had occurred and how proximate to that order, the actual incidents that the president has cited as justifying the deployment of the National Guard actually occurred. And in fact, it's months since in time apart. And she's like, that can't be what justifies sending federal troops into a state for ICE enforcement.
- [05:26]
Nicole Wallace
It's Trump still talking about the 2020, right?
- [05:30]
Melissa Murray
Or even just a few months ago. And one of the things she emphasizes is that in the earlier cases, like, for example, the one in California where the 9th Circuit stayed, a district court's order so basically allowed the administration to deploy National Guard troops, they emphasized how close in time the alleged rebellion or disruption that the president had used had Come with the order for federal. So it's much closer and much more proximate. She, in this order relating to Oregon talked about like, this is actually months apart in time. So we need a closer nexus to the harm that you've identified that would justify deploying National Guard to a particular state. And this just isn't it. It doesn't check out. So there's a lot of record evidence here, a lot of just detailed information about what the situation is on the ground. This isn't Trump derangement syndrome. This is a district judge doing her job, like, looking through the evidence and making a reasoned decision about whether or not this needs to be temporarily enjoined.
- [06:26]
Nicole Wallace
The sound of General John Kelly's sort of voice in the days before election day warning of troops on the streets just rings so loudly in my ears. I mean, this is something that the military has said it doesn't do or want.
- [06:41]
Melissa Murray
No, again, there are lots of reasons why the founding fathers were very wary of the prospect of a standing army. They really feared the idea that a standing army would essentially allow either a president or Congress to basically be tyrannical, to actually use the power of the military against ordinary people. This is something that they saw in the colonial period with Great Britain. They didn't want it in the United States. So there were all of these checks that they divide power over the armed forces. Congress can declare war. The president can be commander in chief, but only Congress can supply the armed forces. So they try and diffuse this because they understand that a military presence in a domestic context is a terrible idea for citizens.
- [07:25]
Nicole Wallace
Jacob Suvaroff, have you popped out of that news conference? I don't mean to be doing this on live tv. There you are. Can you hear us?
- [07:33]
Jacob Soboroff
Sorry. Is that Nicole? Was that for me?
- [07:34]
Nicole Wallace
Yes, yes, yes.
- [07:35]
Jacob Soboroff
There we go. Hi. I got you.
- [07:36]
Nicole Wallace
Hi.
- [07:37]
Vaughn Hilliard
Forgive me.
- [07:38]
Jacob Soboroff
Sorry.
- [07:38]
Nicole Wallace
No, no, no. Take me through what news was just made by the governor there.
- [07:44]
Jacob Soboroff
Sure. I've just stepped outside this news conference which is still ongoing. The members of the congressional delegation from the Chicago area are all in there. The mayor of Chicago is in there. Other local officials are there with the governor, who obviously sued the federal government today to stop the deployment of the National Guard. And I think you know what I took away from listening to Governor Pritzker almost systematically deconstruct every action of the federal immigration enforcement operation here over the course of the past month, which they're calling Operation Midway Blitz, which is also important to note, is being run by Greg Bevino, the same chief of patrol of the Border Patrol that was out in Los Angeles talking openly about how the march on MacArthur park was a show of force. He said it was illegal and unconstitutional what the federal government is doing here, particularly as it relates to potential deployment of troops here to Chicago. And Governor J.B. pritzker said he would use any power under his authority as the governor of the state of Illinois to push back against this. Everything that he called a pretext to the invocation of the Insurrection act to have federal troops on the streets, not just of Chicago, but of cities all across America. It's exactly what Karen Bass warned the mayor of Los Angeles when these operations started at the beginning of the summer, that that city was a petri dish for other cities across the nation. And Governor Pritzker is basically concurring with that. I asked him in the news conference. I don't think we have the footage yet. But just to summarize, what I asked him about was whether or not if he was going to use all the authority at his disposal as the governor of the state, would he direct state law enforcement? We've heard Tom Homan say that local law enforcement, federal law enforcement, would arrest local officials. I asked him if he would direct his state law enforcement, the Illinois State Police, to somehow stand in the way of these ongoing operations. Whether it was the deployment of the National Guard or potentially arrest federal agents that he deems or the state police deem to be doing illegal activity, he would not go that far. But he is putting up a very strong show of force of his own here. I'm standing with the elected officials from this state saying that not only will they use every legal avenue possible, but they're telling citizens of this city and of this state to show up with their cell phones to document every second of what's going on in the streets, whether it's that apartment complex on the South Shore that was raided last weekend or that incident that took place, you know, over the weekend where someone was shot, or even what's happening outside the Broadview Detention Facility, where Kristi Noem went up on the roof and was looking down at the assembled protesters. They are not taking this lightly, and maybe as serious or even more so than the officials that I saw in Los Angeles at the beginning of these operations in June.
- [10:24]
Nicole Wallace
Let me play a little bit more of the governor at that press conference talking about, because I feel like we run the risk of repeating a narrative for which there's not a lot of evidence these are immigration proceedings, but no one has seen any evidence of who was apprehended or who they were looking for or why people were taken and their children left unaccounted for. For US Citizen children as of close of business Friday were missing because their grownups have been taken. So let me play the governor on some of that.
- [11:03]
J.B. Pritzker
Trump's invasion force is not going after the worst. Like he said, they're harassing and detaining many people based only on the color of their skin. Tamale vendors, delivery people, people looking for work at Home Depot, and even families just out and about enjoying themselves on a sunny day. Dasha Ramirez, an 8 year old girl and her family were detained by federal agents while enjoying a day in Millennium Park. Witnesses saw her crying and clutching her doll. Honestly, what danger did they represent? What is it that they presented that was so awful? And how did detaining them make anyone safer?
- [11:53]
Nicole Wallace
So just specifically, what do they say they are doing in Chicago and what reporting do you have as to what they're actually doing in Chicago?
- [12:02]
Jacob Soboroff
Yeah, they've said they've detained or apprehended a thousand people since the start of this operation at the beginning of September. And of course, as always, the federal government is sending out news releases with what they say are the worst of the worst. The people that would traditionally be targets of these federal immigration enforcement operations in cities across America, red states, blue states, you name it. That's what the Border Patrol does. That's what Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Homeland Security Investigations is supposed to do. But that is not what is happening on a wide scale here. They have not released a list of 1,000 violent criminals. They have not released a list of 1,000 people who had pending violent criminal charges. In fact, they released short and truncated lists, basically press releases, to highlight the people that they want to highlight. And just like in Los Angeles, we are seeing people at their places of business, out on the streets, apprehended, driving vehicles around the city. And I think that is what, as you said, is so important to emphasize. Who are the people in that apartment building that were detained in the middle of the night? Who are the children that are without their parents? Those are questions the federal government has not yet answered. And I should say very clearly, I requested an interview with Greg Bevino, given that we're on the ground here in Chicago. And I haven't heard anything back from the Border Patrol.
- [13:21]
Nicole Wallace
Nicole, let me bring in our colleague, Vaughn Hilliard. Vaughn, Trump's poll numbers are around 37%. His approval rating on immigration and the economy are the lowest of his political life. Does he think this is going well?
- [13:37]
Vaughn Hilliard
I don't think that we have any indication otherwise. I was over at the White House just this afternoon here, and I asked directly to Caroline Levitt, the press secretary, effectively, right, what is the mission here? What is the ultimate endgame for the use of National Guard military men and women in the streets of these major American cities? And she said twofold, to protect, right. The idea to protect federal personnel in buildings and then also to address crime. And I think that that was what led me later in this afternoon, ask Stephen Miller, the Deputy Chief of staff, specifically, what should each of these cities anticipate in the months ahead? What should Americans anticipate over the next three and a half years? Because the way that Stephen Miller laid it out was that until there are federal personnel, men and women are not in harm's way as they're trying to enforce federal immigration law or as soon as crime is addressed in these cities, then effectively, without quoting him directly here, then that is the purpose and that is the agenda. The National Guard, to which I followed up, well, what about Washington D.C. because both of those things are no longer happening. There are no protests here in Washington D.C. against federal ICE enforcement. And the President himself just one week ago said that D.C. was now a crime free city. And so when I asked whether this was a long term play to have men in uniform, men and women in uniform in American cities, he said that he had answered the question the way that he was going to answer it, which would lead one to, I think, to J.B. pritzker's point here question, what is the long term desire of this White House and for the President's case, right. He hasn't flinched any step of the way outside of when the courts have ordered him to have the National Guard leave these cities. And so I think the intent is very, very clear and sort of polling be damned. This is a moment where he is the one in power and he has a clear vision, he and his White House, of what they want to do inside of these c. And every indication here at this point is that they're going to continue to press forward.
- [15:46]
Nicole Wallace
Let me play you what he had to say about judges.
- [15:52]
If they put judges like that on, I wasn't served well by the people that picked judges. I can tell you things like that are just too bad. I appointed the judge and he goes like that. So I wasn't served. Well, obviously I don't know the judge, but if he made that kind of.
- [16:10]
A decision, Portland is burning to the ground. I mean, just before we go any further, Portland isn't burning to the ground, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. But what does this sentence mean? I appointed the judge and he goes like that. So I wasn't served. Well, obviously, I don't know the judge, but he made that kind of a decision. Does he think that saying this out loud will one influence the way the judges rule, or is he just taking his mask off and standing there naked telling us what he thinks the judge, judges he appointed should do?
- [16:45]
Vaughn Hilliard
I think that it is very clear that the president is disappointed in the nominee that he put forward back in 2018 in Oregon. And I think that that is where I think it is important for us to also distinguish, you know, President Trump term number one versus President Trump term number two, and the keenness not only toward the cabinet officials that are placed and nominated into these positions, but also the, you know, judges that are being nominated here. And the president rebuked here in a very, very explicit way by the judge in Oregon. And so, right. This is a moment here where he is up against. If you just take Portland, the Portland police chief is making the case here that this is just one square block, not the 145 square miles that is encompassing Portland. And for anybody that has visited Portland over the last days, weeks or months would wholly acknowledge that. And you're dealing with a federal judge who lives there in Orego, is very aware of what the situation is on the ground. And so clearly the president, I think that this is indicative of. Right. Somebody that is, you know, not pleased, obviously, with the decision here, but one in which I think it's calling into question, what other venues do you go before ultimately? And what other judges, perhaps Trump appointed ones, will also rebuke his efforts.
- [18:10]
Nicole Wallace
Amy, thank you for your patience. This wasn't a he, but, but I don't know that that even justifies discretion. It's a female judge that he appointed. But if you take these three statements, quote, I hate my opponents, something Donald Trump said at Charlie Kirk's memorial service to the military, quote, cities are your new training grounds. Something Donald Trump said to the United States military. And, quote, Pam, you're not moving fast enough. Something Trump said on his social media platform to his sitting attorney general. What are we actually talking about? I mean, what, what box has he painted the military into right now?
- [18:48]
Amy McGrath
Well, I'm very worried with this politicization of our troops, not only on the streets of America and putting troops in places that they shouldn't be, frankly, but also politicization of our troops. In his speeches, it's almost common now to talk about an invasion from within by radical left Democrats to talk about the military being used in our cities and having our cities be training grounds for the military. What are we doing here? And then you add in what he said and what is happening, right? This raiding of apartment buildings with Blackhawk helicopters and tying American citizens up in zip ties, pulling them from their homes. I mean, this is. We're putting the military in a terrible position and one that you mentioned earlier. The military does not want to be in and should not be in. And the good news is the courts are pushing back, but we need Congress to push back. And that's not happening right now because we don't have good people in Congress.
- [19:54]
Nicole Wallace
Let me read you from the Illinois lawsuit seeking to stop the deployment of troops to Chicago and Illinois. Quote, at The Pentagon On September 30, 2025, Trump pitched his plan to use American soldiers to punish his political enemies to hundreds of United States military leaders. He told them that they must prioritize, quote, defending the homeland against the, quote, invasion from within in American cities run by, quote, radical left Democrats, specifically including Chicago. He stated his intention to use our neighborhoods as, quote, training grounds for the military. This is just the most recent in months of threats by Trump Secretary of the Department of Defense, Pete Hegseth, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem and others in the Trump administration. Threats that are entirely unrelated to the circumstances in Illinois or the needs of federal law enforcement. Just to not be hyperbolic, Amy, but could you just put in context the stakes of this Illinois lawsuit?
- [20:57]
Amy McGrath
I mean, I think it's incredibly important. And what we're seeing around the country, it's not just in Illinois, as you mentioned, it's in Washington, D.C. it's in California. It's, you know, this. Federal agents throwing down the father of three Marines on the streets of our country, assaulting people, dragging people out of churches and hanging out near schools, waiting to detain kids. And here's what I hear in Kentucky, okay, this bulldozer chaotic approach is not what people voted for. All right? They thought they wanted to put criminals away, but that's not what they're doing. And this politicization and misuse of our military is very, very dangerous right now.
- [21:47]
Nicole Wallace
I'm gonna ask all of you to stick around. Vaughn Hilliard, thank you for your White House reporting, for starting us off today. Amy, Jacob, and Melissa, stay with me. When we come back, there's more from Chicago and another frightening and alarming incident pitting local and federal officials against each other. This time, an ice agent handcuffing someone at a hospital. That person has now been released. She joins us next on what's happening in the city. Plus, high level officials in the Trump administration continuing to use signal casually to have sensitive discussions about troop deployments. The screenshots telling the story of just who Pete Hegseth once brought into these American cities. And later in the broadcast, resisting the pressure. A top prosecutor says she will not seek criminal charges against someone Donald Trump has long sought to punish. New York Attorney General Letitia James. We'll bring you that story and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [22:43]
As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
- [23:00]
The American people are basically telling the.
- [23:02]
Amy McGrath
President that they are not okay with any of this.
- [23:04]
Nicole Wallace
Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at msnbc.com project47. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter each morning. Read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch standout moments from your favorite shows.
- [23:52]
The second Trump administration has gone to.
- [23:54]
Amy McGrath
Unprecedented lengths to radically transform transform America.
- [23:58]
Nicole Wallace
Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC delivered to your inbox. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [24:14]
There have been enough examples to describe it as a trend of ICE agents detaining elected officials who have dared to ask questions of them and their treatment of detainees, this time at a hospital. On Friday, Chicago alderperson Jesse Fuentes was handcuffed by ICE after attempting to check on someone who Fuentes says broke his leg after being chased by ICE agents. A bystander captured video of ICE arresting Fuentes. Take a look.
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Jesse Fuentes
He has constitutional rights. Do you have a sign?
- [24:50]
Nicole Wallace
No. You need to leave for me.
- [24:52]
Jesse Fuentes
Turn around.
- [24:53]
Nicole Wallace
You're turn around and leave yet.
- [24:55]
Jacob Soboroff
He's under I'm going to arrest you are going to be placed under arrest.
- [25:00]
Jesse Fuentes
Do you have a sign? This is a hospital. Do you have a sign to this? I am asking. I am asking. I did not touch you.
- [25:10]
Amy McGrath
We told you to leave.
- [25:12]
Jesse Fuentes
Now you're under arrest for. I asked you if you had a warm for him. It is very simple. It is very simple. That man has constitutional rights. I did not touch you. It is a public space. I am not trespassing. I am asking you, do you have a signed judicial warrant?
- [25:34]
Nicole Wallace
Fuentes was later released without being charged. In a statement to NBC Chicago about the injured detainee, ICE claims he was taken to the hospital out of, quote, an abundance of caution, end quote. In just the last hour, Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker addressed Fuentes arrest at his press conference. Watch what he said.
- [25:56]
J.B. Pritzker
If arresting an elected official for peacefully asking questions isn't a demonstration of authoritarianism, then what is?
- [26:05]
Nicole Wallace
We get to ask that question now of Chicago alderperson Jesse Fuentes. Jacob, Amy and Melissa are here. Jesse, first I saw how. How rough they were. Why? And if they were that aggressive with you, an elected official. And with cameras rolling, how did they treat the other targets of whatever their operation was?
- [26:26]
Jesse Fuentes
Well, that's exactly the question. You know, in this video, what is not captured is that I'm actually shoved twice before being handcuffed and grabbed in that manner by that particular agent. There's videos, and that same agent choked up a resident at a Walmart parking lot for no particular reason. Who did not touch him as well. One has to ask, if you're not an elected official, if you're not someone clearly articulating your rights, if there's not cameras in your faces, if you're landing helicopters on people's buildings in the middle of the night, what are you doing to them? It's exactly the abuse that we have to be questioning, we have to confront and we have to document. What we are seeing is pure violence by federal agents in the city of Chicago.
- [27:10]
Nicole Wallace
Tell me more of what happened this weekend, both in terms of ICE activity and the protests that. The peaceful protests that are taking place in your city.
- [27:21]
Jesse Fuentes
Absolutely. Well, first, before going to that hospital, I was actually responding to ICE agents being just 200 to 300ft away from an elementary school, throwing tear gas into the public way, impacting a pregnant woman, impacting children coming out of school, families going into the grocery store. I go to the hospital with an individual whose leg was completely shattered while in custody by ICE agents. We had a woman who was shot by ICE agents. We have had children pulled out of buildings Zip tied without clothing on. We have had individuals be rammed by vehicles, be hit by pepper balls, all in the name of what we and what Trump is calling safety and security. But we know this is not about safety and security. This is about control. This is the exact playbook of fascism, and we're watching it play out in the city of Chicago.
- [28:14]
Nicole Wallace
Jesse, do you have any information on what the raid at the apartment building was about and where the four US Citizen children are?
- [28:26]
Jesse Fuentes
I do not. You know, Ice and Nomency allegedly believe that this was about individuals who have criminal records. But what we've seen is that US Citizens were taken out, children were taken out, elders were taken out of that building, the property destroyed. We must demand answers. We need to have a real investigation of what took place in that building, and there needs to be lawsuits for the physical, emotional and social harm that was caused out of that raid.
- [29:00]
Nicole Wallace
Jesse, how do you sort of, in your own mind, analyze the dynamics at play where peaceful protests are our right, but our very most fundamental rights are being threatened by Donald Trump? In speeches, the public statements are that Democrats are his opponents and he, quote, hates them, that the military is going to be training on the streets of American cities. I mean, all this is out in the public. How do you communicate with your constituents and the people of Chicago about the risks and importance of peaceful protest in this moment?
- [29:41]
Jesse Fuentes
Well, first, the thing that we have to recognize is that this is a dismantling of our democracy. And that's exactly the goal of Donald Trump and everyone who backs him. He wants to be able to control the country like he is the king, and he does not want to operate within the bounds of the Constitution. It's important for citizens in our city, in our neighborhood, for residents that reside in the city of Chicago and the state of Illinois to understand their rights. I think that's why it's so important that we continue to canvas that we continue to show the city that there are rights that we are going to protect at the hyperlocal level. Just today, the mayor of the City of Chicago, Brandon Johnson, created ice free zones, ensuring that city assets are protected, allowing private businesses to opt in so that we can hold this administration accountable when he chooses to violate the very order that we have established. At the local level. Our voices are important more now than ever. Documentation is important more now than ever. We need to exercise our First Amendment rights, to do it peacefully, to be careful, but also to do it in collective. Anyone who is exercising their First Amendment right, I am asking them not to do that alone, to be with people that they trust to document appropriately, to take the tools that they need to be safe and to lean in on local elected officials that are continuing to leverage every single tool possible to keep them safe.
- [31:03]
Nicole Wallace
Alderperson Jesse Fundez, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. You're always welcome. Please come back.
- [31:09]
Jesse Fuentes
Thank you. I appreciate you.
- [31:11]
Nicole Wallace
I want to go back to my colleague, Jacob Severoff, who is right now with the attorney general of Illinois, kwame Raul Jacob.
- [31:19]
Jacob Soboroff
Mr. Attorney General, thank you so much for joining us. I just watched you here in this press conference with the governor earlier today. I want to read from a little bit of your lawsuit in which you sued the federal government for this, you know, potential deployment of the National Guard. You said the American people, regardless of where they reside, should not live under the threat of occupation by the United States military, particularly not simply because their city or state leadership has fallen out of the president's favor. That's sort of the larger theory of the case. But why do you think you're going to win this one on the merits?
- [31:49]
Kwame Raoul
Well, because this is not driven by one of the prerequisites for federalizing the National Guard, which would be certainly, we're not under foreign invasion. There's no rebellion. So the argument that the federal government is going to make that they're unable to carry out federal law, which is immigration enforcement, which they have been carrying out, and local law enforcement has been doing the job of keeping the peace. One important fact, critically important fact, they've been talking about this for months. When you make the claim that you're unable to do carry out your federal responsibilities because of this emergent situation, and you have said for months, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, you're going to Chicago about to find out why we called it the Department of War, Veno, saying we're going to turn Chicago into, we're going to turn it into a shit show that demonstrates it's politically driven. It's not driven by a need to carry out federal immigration work.
- [32:52]
Jacob Soboroff
The governor said earlier today that he would use every tool under his authority at his disposal to hold off on an invocation of the Insurrection Act. He says this is all a pretext. What does that mean to you? Do you see illegality? I mean, is there any legal challenges to be brought, arrests to be made of officials who are on the ground here now carrying out their duties as immigration enforcement officials? Are you seeing violations of law by federal officials today?
- [33:18]
Kwame Raoul
You know, obviously I've been spending more time in the office than in the streets because we have, in addition to this, some 40 other lawsuits that challenging unconstitutional actions by the federal government. So I'm not a street observer that's always determined on a fact by fact, incident by incident basis. What I can tell you about the Insurrection act itself, about the deployment of the guard, is that there aren't the prerequisites for it here in the city of Chicago. And that's why we filed a lawsuit. And that's what that's our response to that.
- [33:54]
Jacob Soboroff
Attorney General Raoul, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much on this busy day for you, Nicole.
- [33:58]
Nicole Wallace
Jacob, just quickly tell me how it feels you're on the ground.
- [34:03]
Jacob Soboroff
It feels. I'll let you go. Thank you so much. It feels extraordinary to be here because again, it's this cognitive dissonance, Nicole, where on the streets of Chicago everything is largely peaceful. This is a huge city, 2.4 million people. If I have that number wrong, I'm sure the attorney general will correct me. Live here, there's about 150,000, 200,000 undocumented people who live here. So around. My math is not great, but around 7% of the population is undocumented. There is no wide scale lawlessness in the city. Are there violence problems like there are in every big city and small city, red and blue across the country? Yeah, of course there are. But Chicago is as great of a city as it has ever been and it's been really amazing to be out on the streets to see that. It's not the picture that is being painted by the social media videos being put out by Kristi Noem. It's not what the president talks about and it's certainly not the way that Stephen Miller has been talking about, about the need to deploy the military to the streets. That's not my decision to make. But what I can tell you is I have seen largely peaceful protesters today, a small amount of them and people just going about their daily lives. And then I have seen tactical immigration enforcement officials getting ready to go out on raids from that Broadview facility right on the outskirts of town here.
- [35:17]
Nicole Wallace
Unbelievable. We're so glad you're there. Jacob, thank you for your reporting. To be continued. I want to bring Melissa and Amy back into the conversation. I have to sneak in a quick break before I do that. Don't go anywhere. We're back with Amy and Melissa. So, Melissa, I feel like this has become a dumb question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Isn't it illegal to have troop deployment? I Mean isn't what Posse comitatus, isn't that what it's called? That means like troops can't be on the streets of American cities.
- [35:43]
Melissa Murray
So as a general matter, there are very limited circumstances where the President can deploy the National Guard, federalize the National Guard. And typically it's not in circumstances that involve domestic law enforcement that would trigger the posse comitatis limitation. But under 10 USC section 12406, you can deploy the National Guard to a state without the consent of the governor. In circumstances where there is a rebellion or there's unrest that prevents you from enforcing federal law. I think there's a real question whether the circumstances on the ground in Chicago or Portland justify that kind of rationale. And again, the judge that issued the order in Oregon said very clearly, yes, there's no rebellion here. There's no domestic disruption that would prevent the enforcement of federal law sufficient to justify deploying this particular use of the Guard in these circumstances. So again, it's very limited. It's very limited by design. Our founders really feared the prospect of a standing army because they understood that a military presence could very easily tip into tyranny and could. Could stifle and chill the exercise of rights. And that is exactly what we're seeing now.
- [36:53]
Nicole Wallace
Is that where we are?
- [36:55]
Melissa Murray
Well, I mean, I think the fact that you have Black Hawk helicopters hovering outside of apartment buildings in the south side and citizens being zip tied and dragged out of their home, as was reported by the Chicago Sun Times over the weekend, that looks really scary. And I think that is about deterring protests, deterring individuals from exercising their rights. And again, every time I come on the show, I know I always say, like, I'm going to tell you how this actually relates to the Supreme Court. So here goes. The Supreme Court has facilitated this in a zillion different ways in their decisions over the course of this summer that have essentially blessed this administration's lawlessness. So I'm thinking most particularly of an order that was issued just a few weeks ago where the court stayed a district court's decision from Los Angeles that prohibited ICE enforcement officials from racially profiling individuals as they made their detention sweep. So the judge in Los Angeles said that the federal government, the ICE enforcement officials, could not use race, ethnicity, language, occupation, or the location of the individual. They actually had to make individualized assertions of probable cause before detaining people. The Supreme Court, in an order that was only a few sentences, said, nope, you can continue to do this. The only reason we have any idea what they were thinking is because Brett Kavanaugh decided to write a concurrence for himself in which he sort of elaborated some of the ideas. And one of the things he said in that concurrence was so preposterous. Now that we're seeing all of this, the thing he said was that typically ICE enforcement officials will pick people up and they are brief investigative stops. And if they have a U.S. citizen, that individual is promptly released. That's not what's happening. And it actually beggars belief that someone could actually see what is happening here and write that down and commit it to the annals of the US Reports. But that's exactly what he did. They have no idea.
- [38:45]
Nicole Wallace
But what's amazing is that Brett Kavanaugh had no idea in that moment that that was impossible. But Justice Sotomayor clearly predicted everything that would happen.
- [38:54]
Melissa Murray
She dissented and she's like, you know who this is going to be used against? And this is basically not going to be just about the individuals that you believe are here unlawfully. There's no way to distinguish between those who are here unlawfully and those who are here lawfully in a way that does not impose on the rights of everyone.
- [39:11]
Nicole Wallace
Amy McGrath, you said one of the first things you said today was nobody wants this. The truth is 80% of Americans oppose deporting people with jobs. I think upwards of 80% oppose deporting people with American born children. Around the same number oppose deporting people with American born spouses or citizen spouses. So Trump is operating in a category of conduct where he's got about 20% of the public enthusiastic about any of the. How do you communicate with the whole country in this highly partisan moment about something that about 80% of Americans have said they oppose, according to Pew polling?
- [39:55]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, you know, I think you have to look sort of, you have to say, look, what is happening right now is wrong and we can do this better. And you have to look forward and you have to say, in order to look forward, you have to look back and you have to say, look, look, this issue of immigration and illegal immigration is one that is really important. And it's gotten worse and worse over the last 30 years and Congress has not acted. And Republicans in particular have never been interested in actually fixing the problem. So I think you have to be honest about how we got here. There was comprehensive immigration reform in the past. Guess what happened? It was 10 tanked. Every time Mitch McConnell sat in the seat that I'm running for for 30 years and never even tried to fix it. And I think most Americans say, look, we need to have something reasonable. If you're here illegally, you should not get handouts from the government. But come on, people. Farmers know we need migrant workers here on farms in this country. Kentucky knows the horse industry relies on immigrant population. And we do not need this mass police force. And using the United States military against American civilians. Do we want to fix this problem or do we want to have a gestapo like federal police force run around with masks on raiding homes and businesses? That's what you have to talk about here.
- [41:22]
Nicole Wallace
Okay, everybody sticks around. Another day, another signal scandal for Pete Hegson. Except screenshots from another text chat suggest administration officials wanted to deploy an elite military division onto the streets of American cities. And they put that in writing. And someone saw it. This is not the Onion. It's our next story. The connection between the guests on the show is the show. All that we do is put together people who are smart, people who are brave, people who are honest, and lots of times people who've never met each other to have a conversation that has never happened before. But on that day deepens everyone's understanding about the moment in which we gather.
- [42:08]
Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [42:18]
All right, so let this sink in somehow. It is is arguably the second most egregious part of this new reporting that high level officials in the Trump administration still appear to be sharing sensitive information in cavalier fashion on the messaging app called Signal. Just wait until you hear what they were saying. And messaging on Signal, the back and forth in question between Anthony Salisbury, who is a deputy to Stephen Miller, and Patrick Weaver, who was an advisor to Pete Hegseth happened in a crowded space. So crowded and so public, in fact, that someone was able to take pictures of their conversation and catch their exchange and then share them with a reporter at the Minnesota Star Tribune so we could all see them contained therein. Among dozens of messages, a discussion about the deployment of the army's vaunted 82nd Airborne, an elite infantry division, a deployment not to a faraway combat zone, but to the streets of, wait for it, Portland to crack down on protests there. Heseth would eventually send 200 National Guard troops to Portland. But the messages illustrate the lengths that the administration is apparently willing to go in its ongoing takeover of American cities. Amy and Melissa are still here. Amy, I know there's no bottom and I know it's foolish to look for one, but the 82nd Airborne just give us a little bit of your reaction to this story and the history of the 82nd Airborne.
- [43:54]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, well, the 82nd Airborne is one of the most elite units that our country has. And these are the best trained soldiers, some of the best trained soldiers in our country. And the thing about it is, we have threats in China and Russia and North Korea. We have to have these soldiers at the ready to go around the globe at a moment's notice. And the idea that you would just send them to Portland, Oregon, in order to make you look strong, it's really just completely reckless in terms of national security. That's for one. And that's on top of the Signal issue, which is a totally separate issue issue.
- [44:38]
Nicole Wallace
Well, let's deal with the signal issue. I'm not going to play this, but I want to read you what Hegseth said yesterday on Leaks. I'm just going to spare everyone the audio visual element of Pete Hegseth. So Hegseth goes on Fox and says, so we're doing everything we can, protocol wise, to make sure that leaks are minimized. Unfortunately, we live in an era where people do things like that. Journalists solicit things like that, which is disgusting when journalists are saying, hey, send us classified information. That's why we have a policy at the Pentagon around what kind of conduct journalists will have in the building. We take these things seriously. Leaks are a problem. And then D.C. says, Will you start using polygraphs to catch them? And Hegseth says, I think we'll use whatever tools we need, ultimately, especially with our own service members who can never be party to that, or our own civilians, who can never be party to leaking. So that's how they're going to deal with leaks. But what about disclosures on Signal? I mean, it's incredible that they keep coming. You know, the calls are coming from inside Pete Hegseth's personal staff. Yeah.
- [45:41]
Amy McGrath
And I think what this shows is that Pete Hegseth and his team have not learned the lesson from, whatever you want to call it, Signal Gate, earlier in the year. I mean, Signal is not a secure means of communicating national security and military matters. And to be talking about this type of stuff loudly in a public place is JV level incompetence. And remember this, Pete Hexseth is the guy that set up a text chain earlier this year and proactively pushed classified information, stuff that he knew was classified, to people he knows did not have a classified clearance. And that's in addition to putting it all on an unsecured app on your phone. I mean, it doesn't get much More done than that, folks. He's not taking responsibility for any of this. It would get anyone else in the military fired or prosecuted. That's how recklessly incompetent this man is.
- [46:38]
Nicole Wallace
I'm not going to dignify the White House Keystone Cop response, but suffice to say there were pallbearers involved and a whole, you know, everything except taking responsibility for the unfortunate disclosure of a potential movement of the 82nd Airborne.
- [46:55]
Melissa Murray
Well, the last time I was on your show, we talked about the effort to purge the federal government and particularly the intelligence community of individuals who were deemed disloyal either for partisan reasons or whatever. And again, this was a purging of expertise. And I think I said then that's a real issue in terms of our national security. And I talked about 911 and the fact that we had this long period between the election of 2000 and when the Bush administration took over. And that was blamed in the 911 Commission Report for the failures that occurred in the intelligence community on 9 11. Not only are we seeing these purges, which are making us less intelligent in every possible way, now we have these loose lips, sink ship signal chats. I mean, the call is coming from inside the House. This is a real issue that is making us unsafe as a broad matter, not just on the margins. Like, this is a big deal.
- [47:50]
Nicole Wallace
Amy, I don't want to let you go without asking you about. We're lucky. We're blessed to get to talk to you and pick your brain about everything happening. But tell me about your decision to throw your hat in the ring for the open Senate seat in Kentucky.
- [48:04]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, I think, like lots and lots of Americans, I'm pretty ticked off about the way our country is headed, and so are a lot of Kentuckians, and they have a right to be. And, you know, Kentucky deserves a senator with. With decency and courage who will be a voice for Kentuckians. This is an open seat. You know, Mitch McConnell saw the writing on the wall, Nicole, and he retired and he left the seat wide open. We have a midterm coming up, and I think the voters of Kentucky have proven that they will vote for the best candidate no matter whether they have a D or an R behind their name. Because, you know, we have a Democratic governor here who won in 2023. So control of the Senate hinges on this race. Race. And, you know, hardworking Americans who supported me before, they haven't given up, and neither have I. And that's why I'm running.
- [48:53]
Nicole Wallace
I'm so excited to cover you and to continue to talk to you. And I think it's great in this moment that more people are raising their hand and saying, you know, take me, I'll do it. So congratulations on the run. We'll keep covering it and we'll keep talking. Up next, brand new reporting on a top prosecutor trying to stand up to Donald Trump. We'll bring you that story in this moment after a quick break.
- [49:23]
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Amy McGrath
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Nicole Wallace
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