“Todd Blanche under intense scrutiny this week”

Summary

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Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Host: Nicolle Wallace (with Chris Hayes guest-hosting segments)
Episode: “Todd Blanche under intense scrutiny this week”
Date: July 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode delves deep into the unprecedented scrutiny facing Todd Blanche, acting Attorney General and nominee to become the nation’s top law enforcement official. With Blanche’s Senate confirmation hearings looming, the discussion centers on damning new developments: a federal judge’s sanctions against Blanche for his role in a Trump-era IRS lawsuit (alleged to be an attempt to confer immunity on Trump allies), and Blanche’s central role in covering up and mishandling the Jeffrey Epstein files, including a controversial deal for Ghislaine Maxwell. The panel analyzes the political, legal, and public perception fallout, as well as new reporting implicating Blanche as the architect of Justice Department cover-ups serving Trump’s personal interests.

The latter half of the episode pivots to explosive news about Trump administration efforts to enable an ally's acquisition of major media assets—including CNN—raising alarms about press freedom, journalistic independence, and media consolidation under authoritarian control.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Todd Blanche’s Legal and Ethical Crisis

• Rule 11 Sanctions: Blanche, Trump’s former personal attorney and currently acting Attorney General, faces sanctions for filing what Judge Williams called an “improper” lawsuit—allegedly designed to shield Trump allies from IRS investigation and facilitate an unlawful financial settlement.
• Quote (Host, 02:30):
  “He himself is staring down rather unprecedented potential disciplinary action for being a bad faith actor in court.”
• Blow to DOJ Credibility: Guests discuss how Blanche's actions, and the judge’s aggressive rebuke, have further damaged the Department of Justice’s standing within the federal judiciary.
  • Brendan Ballou (03:55):
    “It’s a very sad indictment of where the Department of Justice is... but also a hopeful sign of how courts are starting to reckon with the reality of where we are now.”

2. Strategic Fallout: Epstein Files and Public Opinion

• Epstein Cover-Up as a Flashpoint: Sarah Longwell advocates for Democrats to focus their Senate hearing strategy on Blanche’s involvement in withholding Epstein files and orchestrating leniency for Ghislaine Maxwell.
  • Sarah Longwell (07:30):
    “It is Todd Blanche who has been presiding over that cover up, right down to the sweetheart deal for Ghislaine Maxwell… Any senator who approves of Todd Bl is approving a further cover up in the Epstein saga.”
• Public Resonance: The panel emphasizes that the Epstein saga cuts across political divides, infuriating voters of all stripes who feel denied transparency and justice.
  • Chris Hayes (09:31):
    “As much as Pam Bondi was the face of the PR debacle, he’s the architect of the actual screw up in terms of complying with the law, the Transparency Act that passed Congress.”
• Impactful Political Messaging: Discussion of targeted ads highlighting Blanche’s role in the Epstein files and Maxwell's transfer to a cushy prison, aimed at pressuring Senate swing votes.

3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Unbelievability of the Moment:
  • Chris Hayes (13:19):
    “That seems to be disqualifying on any planet, in any political moment, in any party, when you’re talking to a child rapist.”
• On the Political Calculus for Republicans:
  • Claire McCaskill (16:37):
    “The easiest way to persuade voters is to present them with something that they already are inclined to believe... And where the majority of voters are right now is that this is a cover up and that Donald Trump is participating in the COVID up and that his lawyer is representing him in the COVID up, not the people of this country and certainly not the victims of these heinous acts.”

4. Media Consolidation & Threats to Press Freedom

• Paramount–Warner Brothers–CNN Merger: News breaks about state attorneys general suing to block the Trump-approved acquisition of CNN by Trump allies David and Larry Ellison.
  • Chris Hayes (28:30):
    “The goal of putting CNN in the hands of Donald Trump’s billionaire pals, Larry and David Ellison, father and son, has long been one of Donald Trump's obsessions and fever dreams.”
• Implications for Newsrooms and Democracy: The roundtable warns that the merger jeopardizes not just business competition but the integrity of democratic journalism.
  • Oliver Darcy (32:14):
    “It’s crazy when you say it out loud... The plan has always been for Bari Weiss [Ellison’s hire] to get editorial oversight over CNN.”
  • Brendan Ballou (39:41):
    “This is how America’s communications and media system gets corrupted... a really disgusting entwining between the very powerful in government and the very powerful in business.”

5. Calls for Political Oversight and Legal Action

• State AGs Step Up: Democrats and guests praise the 12-state coalition (including some “not bright blue” states) challenging the merger, filling a void left by an inactive/complicit DOJ.
• Potential for Congressional Oversight: If Democrats retake Congress, they plan aggressive antitrust investigations and hearings (37:37).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:40: Opening discussion; DOJ leadership as Trump’s defense
• 03:55: Brendan Ballou on Judge Williams’s sanctions and DOJ credibility
• 06:13: The panel discusses the political strategy of centering the Epstein files
• 09:56: Sarah Longwell and Claire McCaskill narrate a hard-hitting ad about Blanche/Maxwell
• 13:19: Discussion of Maxwell tape and Blanche’s response—ethical disqualification
• 16:37: Claire McCaskill on the politics of the cover-up and swing-state pressure
• 18:27: New Haberman-Swan reporting uncovers Blanche as cover-up architect
• 25:11: Brendan Ballou’s legal strategy for Blanche’s confirmation hearing
• 28:30: Chris Hayes introduces Paramount–Warner Brothers–CNN mega-deal and state AG lawsuit
• 32:14: Oliver Darcy on media consolidation, editorial control, and newsroom anxiety
• 37:37: Claire McCaskill details congressional oversight if Democrats regain the majority
• 39:41: Brendan Ballou discusses legal remedies for media corruption
• 43:00: Jim Acosta (Best People podcast excerpt) on the ideological underpinnings of media takeovers

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Notable Quotes

On DOJ Credibility:
“It’s a very sad indictment of where the Department of Justice is... but also a hopeful sign of how courts are starting to reckon with the reality of where we are now.”
— Brendan Ballou, 03:55

On Blanche’s Candidacy:
“He has no business being the head of the Department of Justice in this hearing though the strategy should be from Democrats to pin him down on these things. He is running a PR campaign, he is running a defense campaign. He’s... running a cover up for Donald Trump on the Epstein files.”
— Sarah Longwell, 22:59

On the Media Merger:
“The plan has always been for Bari Weiss to get editorial oversight over CNN.... And people inside CNN are very concerned.”
— Oliver Darcy, 32:14

On Media Corruption:
“A really disgusting entwining between the very powerful in government and the very powerful in business working together to reshape our media ecosystem.”
— Brendan Ballou, 39:41

On Democratic Resilience:
“Every small d Democratic muscle that we have is flexing.” — Sarah Longwell, 00:09

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Structure & Summary Flow

• Backdrop: The episode opens with the existential crisis at the Justice Department, with Blanche poised for Senate confirmation amid scandal and judicial rebuke.
• Expert Panel: Legal, journalistic, and political voices break down why Blanche’s conduct in the Trump/IRS settlement—and especially his handling of the Epstein files—should serve as a roadblock to his confirmation, both in legal terms and as a matter of public opinion.
• Strategic Focus: Democrats are urged to frame the hearings and the wider media narrative on Blanche’s corrupt stewardship of the Epstein files, a story with rare bipartisan grassroots fervor.
• New Revelations: The panel deconstructs new book revelations cementing Blanche’s central role (“the architect”) in shielding Trump and manipulating federal courts and the Justice Department for partisan ends.
• Media Megadeal: As a parallel, the episode uncovers how Trump’s DOJ is facilitating a power grab in the media, risking journalistic integrity and democracy itself.
• Oversight and Resistance: The episode closes on hope: legal action is underway, oversight is possible, and public awareness is growing—if focus remains on the corruption and cover-up at the heart of today’s political and media crises.

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For listeners (or non-listeners):
This episode is a critical primer on why Todd Blanche’s confirmation drama encapsulates deeper concerns about the health of American democracy, the rule of law, media independence, and the ever-thinning line between partisan loyalty and public service. The panel’s urgent counsel: focus the fight on public trust issues voters understand and care about—the Epstein cover-up, DOJ’s integrity, and press freedom—because that’s where accountability might finally catch up to power.

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Transcript

[Host]

Listen to your favorite Ms. Now shows

[Co-Host]

anytime as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline,

[Host]

White House and the Rachel Maddow Show.

[Sarah Longwell]

Every small d Democratic muscle that we have is flexing.

[Co-Host]

Plus the Last Word with Lawrence o', Donnell, the Beat with Ari Melber, the

[Host]

Weeknight and more on the go wherever you get your podcasts for ad free listening to all of your favorite shows. Subscribe to Ms. Now premium on Apple Podcasts. Mr. Attorney General, you are acting today like the president's personal attorney. And that's the whole problem.

[Oliver Darcy]

You've got his whole. You have a whole banner of his face hanging over the Department of Justice,

[Host]

and you and everybody else walks under it.

[Oliver Darcy]

And you are acting like you're his current personal attorney.

[Sarah Longwell]

You do not belong in this job, Mr. Attorney.

[Claire McCaskill]

Acting Attorney General, you should always and recuse yourself from these issues because you are the President's lawyer. You are not the lawyer President of the United States.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes, you are.

[Chris Hayes]

Hi again, everyone. It's five o' clock in the East. Trying to make smugness great again, I guess, is his plan. That's Donald Trump's personal lawyer. I'm sorry? Donald Trump's current acting attorney general and appointee to be the country's attorney general under intense scrutiny this week as he will appear before Senate Judiciary Committee members on Wednesday for a confirmation hearing. Todd Blanche can't afford to lose even one Republican on this, or else his nomination to be the official and no longer the acting attorney general will be dead today, a development that further calls into question whether Todd Blanche's true allegiance is to Donald Trump, who he represented as his personal criminal defense attorney, or to the country question that has been looming over Todd Blanche since he joined the Trump administration. Judge Kathleen Williams ruled that Donald Trump's lawsuit against the irs, which Todd Blanche settled in May, was brought for, quote, improper purposes. She writes, quote, the nature of the suit itself and the conduct of the parties and counsel from its filing makes plain that this was an attempt to use the court to provide some legitimacy to an agreement to confer immunity to people and entities affiliated with the president and to earmark billions of dollars from American taxpayers to redress grievances not defined in the law. On the context of that filing, the New York Times writes, this, quote, the decision by the judge, Judge Williams, who sits in federal District Court in Miami, did not explicitly kill the deal that Trump had worked out with his own government to receive what amounted to amnesty from IRS investigations. But the scathing ruling exposed the negotiations between Trump's personal lawyers and senior officials at the Justice Department for what she says they were backroom dealings that did not arise from a legitimate legal process. The judge, Judge Williams, ordered Rule 11 sanctions against Trump's lawyers in the case. Todd Blanche, the acting Attorney general and the nominee to be the country's attorney general, is among them. Rule 11 sanctions are basically fouls or penalties imposed on lawyers when they file frivolous lawsuits and abuse the judicial process. What this means is that two days before Todd Blanche heads up to Capitol Hill to try to bamboozle Republicans and be confirmed as the nation's top law enforcement official, he himself is staring down rather unprecedented potential disciplinary action for being a bad faith actor in court. That is where we begin the hour with the founder of the Public Integrity Project and former special counsel in the Justice Department, Brendan Ballou. Also joining us, publisher of the Bulwarks, Sarah Longwell is back. Plus, political analyst former Senator Claire McCaskill joins us. Brendan, your thoughts?

[Host]

I think it's a real sign of how the judiciary is thinking about the Department of Justice right now. You know, DOJ still has the same name, it still has the same building, but in terms of what it stands for, how it works, and how it's perceived by courts, it's just a radically different institution than it was 24 months ago. I think it's frankly, very encouraging that Judge Williams was as aggressive as she was both in directing Todd Blanche for potential bar sanctions, but also for the amici. The amicus brief. Judges who submitted a really important filing on that, and all credit to Norm Eisen and his and the legal team that was behind that, ordered that they can recoup their attorneys fees here, which I think really lays the foundation for judges ordering monetary fines from the Department of Justice when they act like this. So at some level, it's a very sad indictment of where the Department of Justice is. At another level, I think it's a hopeful sign of how courts are starting to reckon with the reality of where we are now and hopefully present something of a roadmap for what they can do in the future.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, Brendan, one of the sanctions for breaking Rule 11, as you said, could be monetary. The other could be pro bono work. What if Todd Blanche is ordered to work for you?

[Host]

I think that's extraordinarily unlikely. I also think we, you know, try to be pretty selective in the lawyers that we work with and their legal skill. But I think, you know, I think the issue here is, you know, they have referred him for, you know, potential sanctioned by bar committees. Candidly, bar committees are really not very active in these sorts of highly charged political disputes. So I don't think your viewers should really expect much in the way of action. Not that this isn't any shade on, on the bar committees, but I think they are really, really protective of their jurisdictions and don't want to be seen as political actors here. Even if nothing particular results in terms of punishments for Blanche or punishments for the other lawyers here, it really does send a message about the department's credibility at the moment. And that's something that really has a ripple effect not just in this court, but in all courts in the United States. And I think is going to make it much harder for Blanch of Justice to do its job generally.

[Chris Hayes]

So, Sarah, we are so far down the rabbit hole that we're talking about the odds of confirming someone who is literally being called out for sanctions. Maybe, maybe not monetary, maybe, maybe not pro bono work by a judge in Florida. That is where we are. And if this isn't the bottom. I know I've eaten these words every time I've said it. I do not know what is. You have a brilliant strategy for Democrats on, quote, torpedoing Todd Blanche's hearing. You write this quote. When voters scroll through their social media feeds after the hearing, Democrats should ensure that they get clip after clip of Todd Blanche squirming to justify his handling of the Jeffrey Epstein files. They should be reminded of the sweetheart deal Todd Blanche gave to Jeffrey Epstein's co conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell, sending her to a federal facility equipped with puppies and yoga. They should be informed of the discussions Todd Blanche helped lead in the White House situation room trying to figure out how little of the Epstein files to release. Todd Blanche will struggle to explain himself because much of his conduct has been inexplicable as anything other than him being absolutely willing to bend or break the law for Donald Trump, which is disqualifying for the nation's top law enforcement official. Explain.

[Sarah Longwell]

Look, I don't know if we're going to be able to convince Republicans not to give Donald Trump what he wants, because they always do. And look, I, they're Under no circumstances should Todd Blanch be confirmed by the Senate of the United States for legal all the ways that he has attacked the rule of law, the ways that he has already weaponized his role in the Department of Justice. Like you could tick through so many reasons. But the reason I wrote the piece is absent being able to really convince Republicans there's an opportunity here to go on offense in the court of public opinion on something that matters to people left, right and center. I cannot tell you how often it comes up in focus groups about frustration that the Epstein files have not yet been released, that there are still millions of troves of Epstein files that the American public, despite Congress passing a law saying that they must release them, still don't have access, access to. And it is Todd Blanch who has been presiding over that cover up, right down to the sweetheart deal for Ghislaine Maxwell. And this is something the American public is paying attention to. It is something they understand. It is something that they can put pressure, sort of public relations, public opinion pressure on Republican senators who do not want the whiff of the Epstein cover up on them. And let me assure you, any senator who approves of Todd Bl is approving a further cover up in the Epstein saga. That is what, that is what the Senate, especially the Democrats, have an obligation to remind the American public of. And I worry sometimes Democrats can get really caught up in the weeds and the minutiae of some of this other stuff, but this is the kind of thing that will really matter to Americans and may have a chance, may have a chance of derailing his confirmation.

[Chris Hayes]

And if it doesn't do that, though, it does sort of hand him back the backpack that he carried into this job. As much as Pam Bondi was the face of the PR debacle, he's the architect of the actual screw up in terms of complying with the law, the Transparency act that passed Congress. Let me show you what one of the ads might look like. This is an ad that you made, Sarah, for Home of the Brave.

[Sarah Longwell]

It isn't a crime to party with. Mr. Epstein, meet Todd Blanche, the Deputy

[Claire McCaskill]

Attorney General of the United States and the guy who oversaw the release of the Epstein files.

[Oliver Darcy]

How'd that go?

[Claire McCaskill]

2 million Epstein pages still haven't been released. And Blanche transferred Epstein's co conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell to a cushy prison camp with puppies and Pilates. Oh, and now he wants to add Attorney General to his profile. This isn't a resume to award. Tell your senators. Don't confirm Todd Blanche.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, you had me at puppies and yoga. Talk about why this works based on all your I know now thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of focus group.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sarah, you know, I think one of the things that voters decided that they. They thought was true about Donald Trump was that he was transparent in some way. He was gonna tell you all of the ways that the government was taking Advantage of you. And so voters really saw him, even though they knew he lied as a guy who tells the truth. But the one thing that comes up over and over and over again in the focus groups is confusion and anger about the fact that the Epstein files have not been released. And let's be, let's be clear, Pam Bondi got tossed out in part because Epstein was becoming a PR debacle for them. They held a meeting in the Situation Room with Todd Blanche, with the Vice President of the United States because they were so concerned about the impact that the Epstein saga was having on Trump's presidency. Trump's own pollster, Tony Fabrizio, pointed out that when he did a series of focus groups, he found that Republican voters were still very upset about the fact that the Epstein files haven't been released. And so I think that anybody who is looking to both shine a light on the intense corruption of Todd Blanche that the American public can understand that tags into a story that they have been following. They should focus on his role in the Epstein cover up, which goes right down to him personally meeting and being a part of the sweetheart deal for Ghislaine Maxwell. They should bring that up over and over and over again because the American public understands it.

[Chris Hayes]

The other thing is they have Sarah, what is sort of priceless in this moment in our rather broken politics, they have the tape, right? So here's Ghislaine Maxwell and Todd Blanche. Did I think these guys were coming for that? I really don't. If you met Epstein, there is no way that this cast of characters of which is extraordinary, some of you in your cabinet who you value as your co workers and you know, would be with him if he was a creep or because they wanted sexual favors, a man wants sexual favors, he will find that they didn't have to come to Epstein for that. Now did some. Okay. I don't know. I wasn't there. I didn't see it.

[Co-Host]

So.

[Chris Hayes]

When's the last time you think

[Co-Host]

you were with Mr. Epstein?

[Host]

When he got got a massage?

[Chris Hayes]

Now I've had to educate myself and some of the right wing conspiracy theories. I'm waiting for Todd Blanche to say there's a break in the tape to deny that he didn't follow up when Ghislaine Maxwell says this quote. Some are in your cabinet who you value as your co workers and you know, wouldn't be with him if he was a creep or if they wanted sexual favors. I'm sorry, Todd Blanche's next question. As a guy who wants to be the country's top law enforcement official is sitting with a convicted child sex trafficker who's sitting in prison cuz she participated in the trafficking and the sexual assault of girls. Says that. And he says, so when's the last time you think you were with Epstein? When he got a massage? That seems to be disqualifying on any planet, in any political moment, in any party, when you're talking to a child rapist.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, I mean, this isn't even close call on Todd Blanche. Like the fact that we are in a world where Republicans could see fit to make this guy the highest law enforcement officer in the land should cause people like to freak out. It is an insane thing. I almost don't have words strong enough that I could just use on national television. But Todd Blanche, like that is Ghislaine Maxwell saying to Todd Blanche, your colleagues are doing this, so you couldn't possibly think that they would want to hang out with this creep if, if, if, you know, you think well of your colleagues and you just have to sit there and say, but we all know that Jeffrey Epstein is America's most notorious pedophile. We know that there is just a swirl around him of, of conspiracy because he did so many crazy, awful, tawdry, despicable, disgusting things. And many of Trump's cabinet members and close affiliates and Trump himself, we started that ad with Todd Blanche saying it's not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. Yeah, you know what? That might be strictly legally true, but it doesn't take, you know, an IQ above room temperature to look at Trump's long relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and then the, the relationships of his cabinet members with Epstein and know that then the fact that we are unable to see these files because Blanche is overseeing this cover, huge problem. And the last thing they should do is put him in charge of the Department of Justice.

[Chris Hayes]

Claire, I know we spend a lot of time sort of trimming our sails because we understand the complicity of the Republicans and how scared they are politically and otherwise. But this is a story that the right understands in their cells, in their bones. This is an issue that their base actually is with the transparentis, with the victims. I mean, let's go back to the survivors. This is a story that if you center it on the survivors, which we've tried to center all of our coverage on, the vast majority of Americans are with the survivors. And only Republicans like Thomas Massie have aligned themselves with the base of the MAGA movement. And that is to be with the survivors and with the people who want transparency about this cabal of child sex traffickers. Tom Blanche is on the other side of that. What do you make of the political calculation for Republicans if they decide to go with the guy on the other side of the MAGA base?

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, listen, Sarah's point is so well taken because as she well knows and as you well know, having been around political campaigns, the easiest way to persuade voters is to present them with something that they already are inclined to believe. Not to start way over here, but to start where they are and where the majority of voters are right now is that this is a cover up and that Donald Trump is participating in the COVID up and that his lawyer is representing him in the COVID up, not the people of this country and certainly not the victims of these heinous acts. And listen, I just hope there's all this money swirling around that is spent by people other than the candidates. I hope everybody that's spending money on behalf of Democratic candidates is paying attention right now. Because, you know, Sarah's right. We go off and, you know, we could talk about the fact that they didn't defend this lawsuit against the irs, that they just folded, that they had a statute of limitations defense, for gosh sakes. I mean, that is like ABC in law school. You flunk a law school exam in your first year if you don't understand how statute of limitations works. But that's not what they should be talking about. And I got to tell you, if the ads aren't lined up to go, especially in Alaska and Maine, those are the two states where you've got incumbent senators that are going to have to vote on this. And if both of them vote no, and I'm not even counting Tillis and Cornyn, but if Sullivan and Collins vote no, he will not be the attorney general. If they vote yes, he will be. And I will tell you, those two candidates can get beat just on this issue if this is handled correctly.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah. I mean, there's also some dramatic new reporting that I've never seen Todd Blanche asked about under oath. And that's from the Maggie Haberman Jonathan Swan book about these meetings you're talking about. And there are dramatic passages. There was an allegation of a, quote, nipple fetish that J.D. vance and others were trying to figure out how to manage and how to handle. The book doesn't go into how credible or incredible it was. But I've never seen Todd Blanche asked about it under oath. I mean, there's both his role and the COVID up that we know about. And there are New allegations that we've learned about since he's been under oath on Capitol Hill. There's much more on this that I want to ask you guys about, but I have to tell our viewers about some breaking news out of the Middle East. First, US Central Command has announced that they've begun launching new strikes against Iran. It's the third consecutive night of strikes against the Islamic Republic. CENTCOM says the strikes are aimed at degrading Iran's ability to attack civilians and commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. We'll continue to follow events there. Still ahead for us, a dozen state attorneys general are fighting back against Donald Trump's attempt to put control of all of the media and press about him in the hands of his billionaire allies. What they're doing today to stop a Trump backed media megadeal. We'll have that later in the broadcast as the White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Today,

[Oliver Darcy]

Simone Sanders Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House. And I reported on it.

[Sarah Longwell]

And now we're friends and colleagues.

[Oliver Darcy]

And on our podcast, Clock it, we are positioning ourselves at the inner intersection

[Chris Hayes]

of culture and politics.

[Oliver Darcy]

Clock it is where we talk about

[Host]

what we see and hear in the news.

[Oliver Darcy]

So you can start to clock it, too.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

All episodes available now.

[Chris Hayes]

We're back with Brendan, Sarah and Claire. Sarah, let me just drill down with you on this strategy you propose for the Democrats. There is this new reporting and the Haberman swan book regime change. They have exclusive new reporting on the role Todd Blanche played in that sit room meeting. And I want to read from you what they've reported, which I've not seen corrected, fact checked or refuted by anyone. So this is what they report. Todd Blanche suggested, which to me makes him the architect of the COVID up quote. As the president's former defense attorney, Todd Blanche had a unique vantage point in the discussion. He was better equipped than anyone else in the room to weigh the ideas being discussed against Donald Trump's personal and political interests. Todd Blanche laid out what he saw as their best options. Option one was to petition federal district courts in Florida and New York to unseal grand jury testimony. They go on to report it, something they know the judges won't do. But then Todd Blanche's suggestion is to quote as they were almost certain to contain no significant new information. Everyone agreed this was a good idea, and not only because the release was unlikely to damage the president, under the federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, the secrecy of grand jury materials is regarded by most federal judges as inviolate and has the releases. The bar for release is exceptionally high. Blanche predicted they wouldn't agree to unseal them and said they could, quote, shift the blame for withholding the Epstein material away from the Trump administration and onto judges. Todd Blanche, who wants to be the Attorney General, wants to blame judges for the COVID up. His second option was to have the Justice Department lawyers question Ghislaine Maxwell and publicly release the transcript. A twist on the idea proposed by JD Vance. Blanche offers to interview her himself. This is all about protecting Donald Trump in this meeting in the sit room and really manufacturing a cover up. I mean, what they've reported in this room is that Todd Blanche steers the entire JD Vance and I am no fan of JD Vance. But his play in the room, his advice in the sit room in this meeting that they have no idea is going to become public in this book by Haberman and Swan is to put it all out there and let the sort of MAGA coalition choke on it. Like everything else they've gone back on. Todd Blanche's proposals are about erecting a legal architecture around a cover up of Donald Trump's role in the Epstein scandal.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes, I mean this and this is, this ties together several points. One, Todd Blanche has never stopped being Donald Trump's personal defense attorney. Okay? He doesn't know how to be America's highest law enforcement official. He doesn't know how to do that job. He only knows how to run interference for Donald Trump. He also in auditioning for this role, right? In auditioning to become the head of the Department of Justice, he has thrown everything he can at saying like we're going to do what we can to give Donald what he wants. That's the IRS immunity, that's the slush fund. That is. I'm going to go talk Ghislaine Maxwell myself. And so the idea that Todd Blanch should be disqualified is like par. That's, that is what you just start with. He has no business being the head of the Department of Justice in this hearing though the strategy should be from Democrats to pin him down on these things. He is running a PR campaign, he is running a defense campaign. He's running a cover up for Donald Trump on the Epstein files. The American polit public is interested in that. They will pay attention to that. Do you know how deep the right has gone on all the various permutations and machinations around the Epstein files? They know it chapter and verse. And so if Democrats want to get people's attention, and if they want to put, I think, maximum pressure on Cornyn or Tillis or Susan Collins, then they need to focus on the Epstein stuff because he will dodge the rest of it in legalese or he will obfuscate the Epstein. It is all there in black and white, all over the place. If somebody can just put the story together.

[Chris Hayes]

Well, and I guess, Brendan, the benefit of this new reporting since he's been on Capitol Hill, is that the story's been put together, it's been reported, and I think the White House seems very worried about it. There was a post over the weekend attacking the book. It had some words in it that make me suspect that Donald Trump wrote it. It uses the word ponder, which, having covered Donald Trump For 10 years, I've never seen ponder in a social media post. But the White House, I think, is deeply concerned that the Haberman Swann reporting on the Epstein debacle will be used against Blanche.

[Host]

Yeah, I think you used the word architect, and I think that's exactly right. Todd Blanche does appear to be the architect of this entire scheme. We're representing journalist Katie Fang in her lawsuit to unseal the remainder of the Epstein files. And I think one sign that the White House is really nervous about this is they lost. We won our motion for a preliminary injunction, and immediately we got a filing from Stanley Woodward, who, depending on how you count, is the number two or number three Department of Justice official standing right now. So clearly this is being talked about at the absolute highest levels within DOJ and within the White House. They're very worried. To Sarah's point, I think they see this as existential for the administration. I think that there's any number of useful things that could come out of the hearing with Blanche. You know, obviously this is an opportunity to put pressure on senators to potentially vote against his nomination. Even if he gets confirmed, though, pinning him down on a couple of things would be very helpful. For instance, just getting Todd Blanche to say whether or not he's going to comply with a court order to unseal or to release files related to Jeffrey Epstein. You know, you can talk specifically about our case in front of. In front of Judge Sullivan in D.C. getting him to say yes or no, whether or not he's going to comply with a court order would be extremely helpful. Getting him to commit to saying whether or not he ever advised the President that they would work to not disclose files from the Epstein investigation for reasons other than victim identity. And safety would be extremely helpful. So there's any number of things where, you know, pod Blanche is going to dissemble. He's going to try to distract, he's going to try to delay. But you know, impeaching him on some of these things or nailing him down could be very useful for holding him contagious in contempt in the future and to try to get judges to be skeptical of any of the sorts of assertions that they might make in subsequent litigation.

[Chris Hayes]

It's an unbelievable moment. Sometimes I can't believe the things that come out of our mouths, but here we are. Sarah Longwell, thank you for the piece and for joining us to talk about it. We'll all be watching. Brendan and Claire, stick around with me when we come back. But Donald Trump's very public attack to seize control of the media and silence all of his critics and the truth. A dozen states today are challenging the Trump administration's clearing of the Paramount Warner Brothers deal. We'll look at that breaking news next.

[Oliver Darcy]

Hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening?

[Host]

A special crossover episode with the hosts

[Oliver Darcy]

of the Strict Scrutiny podcast.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think the Supreme Court massively misplayed this.

[Claire McCaskill]

End of term, my solution would be

[Sarah Longwell]

more trying to address the underlying structural issues that allow us to get to a point where a minority faction that is not committed to and antagonistic to

[Chris Hayes]

the rule of law can get power.

[Claire McCaskill]

The bigger fundamental problem is that we have never done the work in this country of actually wrestling with our deep seated antipathy for a multiracial, multi faith, pluralistic democracy.

[Oliver Darcy]

That's this week on why IS this Happening? Search for why Is this Happening? Wherever you're listening right now. And follow

[Chris Hayes]

we started today's broadcast with the latest reporting on how Donald Trump is at war with the First Amendment and using his administration to target journalists at the New York Times. Well, today we learned about a dozen state attorneys general who are fighting back against the Trump blessed mega media deal to stop Paramount's acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery. That deal would allow the MAGA friendly owners of Paramount to acquire some of the country's biggest movie studios, entertainment properties, as well as importantly the newsroom of cnn. In today's filing, California Attorney General Rob Bonta said this, quote, the unlawful merger of these two entertainment behemoths would lead to higher prices, lower quality and less content for film and television, harming movie theaters, basic cable distributors and ultimately audiences on every sofa and movie theater seat in the U.S. donald Trump's DOJ has greenlit the $111 billion acquisition, which was agreed to in February and cleared the DOJ's antitrust review last month. Now the goal of putting CNN in the hands of Donald Trump's billionaire pals, Larry and David Ellison, father and son, has long been one of Donald Trump's obsessions and fever dreams. In an appearance yesterday on television intended to honor his friend, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump couldn't help but hint at what he really wanted.

[Host]

Well, I know you don't want to talk about any other issues out of

[Oliver Darcy]

respect for Lindsey Graham, but we would

[Sarah Longwell]

love to have you back sometime because

[Host]

I do have a lot of other

[Co-Host]

questions for you, sir.

[Oliver Darcy]

Sure, we'll do that. We'll do that. Thank you for calling to have CNN go on a normal path, and we'll do that. Well, I'm on a normal path right

[Host]

here, sir, and I appreciate your time.

[Chris Hayes]

To help us understand what I'm trying to put CNN on a normal path means in Trump's authoritarian mind. I want to bring in Oliver Darcy, who's been diligently covering this story for his readers and viewers and viewers of this program. Status always has the scoop on all this. Tell me what you understand to be the state of play here with this lawsuit. Is it a real threat to the merger?

[Oliver Darcy]

Oh, definitely. I think this is a big, big, big problem for David Ellison and Paramount. And Donald Trump's surely watching this and probably not too happy tonight because he very much wants CNN to be in David Ellison's hands. I mean, I think when he talked yesterday with Jake Tapper and said, we are trying to have CNN go on a normal path, I think it's pretty clear who the we is there, and it's David Ellison and him. And so the state's suing today and basically doing the job that the Department of Justice refused to do when they greenlit this deal, apparently over the concerns of some career prosecutors who wanted to challenge it. I think it's a big problem for the, for Paramount and for Donald Trump, who really wants CNN to be in the control of an ally's hands.

[Chris Hayes]

What is the latest understanding of how explicit all of this is? I know there was some reporting that you did and others about efforts to bring in sort of a real news person to run the twin newsrooms or merge them or whatever they're going to do. CBS and cnn, and that appears to have been abandoned. Barry Weiss is this person. She's been accused of, quote, murdering 60 minutes ratings are down at all of the CBS properties. So no analysis about either Commercial success or editorial success could be attributed to anything she's done. She's going to be rewarded with another massive international newsroom. Cnn.

[Oliver Darcy]

That seems to be the plan, Nicole. I mean, it's crazy when you say it out loud. And when you go through what's happened to CBS News under the Ellison ownership and under Bari Weiss, her stewardship of the network. But yeah, that's the plan. It's been the plan for the entire time was to give Bari Weiss editorial oversight over cnn. Now, have they looked into bringing a seasoned media executive into the fold to see whether that person can help stabilize operations? Maybe, yes, they have. They've. They've interviewed people, they've talked to people. But I think the plan has always been Barry Weiss gets editorial oversight. Now, has that changed after the implosion over at 60 Minutes and after she completely butchered overhauling that news magazine? Maybe. We don't know. David Ellison hasn't said anything about what his plans are for cnn, if he should own the network, other than to say it's going to maintain independence, which I don't think anyone's buying. People, senior leaders at both CBS News and cnn, my understanding is that they are totally in the dark. They don't know whether they're going to have jobs, whether their roles are going to be expanded. I think the only person that might know would be Barry Weiss, and she's not saying much right now. So this has been a big, a huge worry for cnn. Ers, you know, inside cnn, there is significant concern, Nicole, about what's going to happen to the network under David Ellison should he be successful in purchasing its parent company, Warner Brother Discovery. They are worried about the editorial overhaul that might happen. They are worried when they hear Donald Trump say, we are trying to set it on the right path. What does that mean exactly? Donald Trump has hated CNN for over a decade and he wants to see it torn down and reassembled in his own image as he's done with a lot of other institutions. And people inside CNN are very concerned. Their only hope right now is that this lawsuit filed by a dozen states today to block this merger will force either the deal not to go through or force some sort of concession from David Ellison to say maybe we can spin off CNN into another company so it's not part of the deal and maybe that CNN survives that way. Of course, Donald Trump has only approved the deal because he wants David Ellison to own cnn. So this is all very complicated. And, and unfortunately, one of the global news behemoths is stuck in the middle of all of it.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, some reporting that Fox's ratings are down. Like, what is take away that you're flirting with a total authoritarian takeover of the media. Take away the Nepo baby storyline that a billionaire is giving his kid, with no qualifications in these areas, total control of two massive news organizations at a time when democracy is under direct threat. Put that aside for a second, which is hard for me to do. What's the business play to try to cater to an. I mean, Trump's approval ratings drop by the week. Who are they programming to and for

[Oliver Darcy]

this is what makes no sense is if you care about the business of these news institutions, the answer is very clear. Audiences want news organizations to hold the powerful to account. They don't want power to be catered to like the Ellisons have been doing. They want to see Donald Trump and his administration feel the fire. That's what they want. So from a business perspective, if you want a good product to sell, you would say, let's program these networks to be really tough on a very unpopular administration, one that is flirting with authoritarianism. And not only would that be smart from a business perspective, it just be smart from a journalism perspective, because journalism is supposed to hold people in power to account, ask tough questions, shine light on the dark areas. Right. Instead, David Ellison, who is trying to use these news organizations to cater to favor with Donald Trump so that he. So that he can get this deal done, because otherwise there would maybe be some significant antitrust concerns, as the states are now saying today with this lawsuit. But the reason he's not doing it is because he needs Donald Trump and his DOJ in his corner to give the blessing of this deal. And they did. The problem for them now is that the states have said, wait a second, we have a say in this as well. We're going to sue and we're going to try to stop this merger. And AG Bonta of California today, he talked a lot about the entertainment aspects of this case and how it would violate antitrust laws in his eyes. But he also talked about the news and about combining. He says combining cable news channels would mean fewer journalists informing our electorate and fewer opportunities for Americans to heal the full breadth of information and opinions on a subject. And I think there's something to that, too, Nicole. Everyone's talking about the entertainment aspects in terms of the legal, in terms of the law, but there is something to be said about combining two of the nation's largest newsrooms and giving those keys to someone who has been currying favor with the president for the last year

[Chris Hayes]

and a half, like on purpose and in public. I want you to stick around. I want to bring Claire McCaskill and Brendan Belew back into this conversation on the other side. Don't go anywhere. We're back with Oliver, Brendan and Claire. Claire, what role can Democrats play if they regain control of the House and the Senate in terms of oversight of all of these brazenly collusive and corrupt deals?

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, the first thing that would happen is you would see the cobwebs removed from the Antitrust subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee. That's where these hearings have taken place in the past that have highlighted antitrust problems. And I think you would see both an aggressive look at these things both in the House and the Senate, assuming the Democrats were in control and could set the agenda. And remember, you know, the attorney general is filing lawsuits. This isn't not a new thing. I mean, Republican attorneys general did this all the time during Biden and Obama. And I noticed in this list of attorneys general that there were a bunch of states that aren't really bright blue. I mean, you have Nevada in this group. You have Arizona in this group. Those attorney generals are doing that because they are confident the people of their state support them. Going after these kinds of mergers where you're going to have this concentration of power that is being controlled like a puppet on an string by Donald Trump. And I do think that's notable because, you know, I assumed that maybe it would just be two or three. The fact they got 12 and the fact that some of them aren't from bright blue places should tell you something.

[Chris Hayes]

Claire, would you be willing to go on a limb and handicap their odds for success legally?

[Claire McCaskill]

I think legally, a lot of it is going to depend on discovery. A lot of it is going to depend on, on how much they can pull out that the what the DOJ did was really because Donald Trump wanted it to happen and it wasn't on the merits. They're going to have to factually establish the merits here because clearly DOJ did not look at the merits. They were just doing what Donald Trump

[Chris Hayes]

told them to do. Now, Brendan, we started the hour talking about the disqualifying elements of Todd Blanche's candidacy to be the country's Attorney general. This seems like it should be added to the list.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is how America's communications and media system gets corrupted. I mean, you look at what's been publicly reported about how the Ellison secured this deal. You know, it was publicly reported that the Ellisons talked about shaking up CNN and potentially even firing anchors that the President didn't like in exchange, or as a result, the President approved, got regulatory approval for the deal. You know, you look at what they did at cbs, not just radically transforming CBS to make it far more conservative, killing stories that the President didn't like and so forth, but there was reporting that they reached a side deal to settle a bogus lawsuit against 60 Minutes by giving the President tens of millions of dollars in free advertising for causes that he liked. And so what you see is a really disgusting entwining between the very powerful in government and the very powerful in business working together to reshape our media ecosystem. And so I'm really hopeful that this lawsuit really gets to a lot of that. And I think it was a really well crafted complaint and really pleaded really clear allegations of wrongdoing in the antitrust laws. But to Senator McCaskill's point, a lot of what's really concerning people here is not just that prices are going to go up for cable and for theatrical distribution and so forth, that there are going to be fewer movies released, but that our news organizations are going to become fundamentally corrupted and biased toward the government. And I think to get at that, you know, this lawsuit is going to be really important. And I hope that it spurs on other lawsuits. You know, whether you're talking about class actions by shareholders in Paramount or by actions by consumers, talking specifically about the corruption that resulted in these deals. And you can do that with the antitrust laws. There are other laws that you can use for these sorts of of things. So the last thing I'll just say about this is the good thing is that time tends to be on the side of people fighting these deals. The more you can slow it down, the more expensive, the more burdensome it becomes to actually complete. And so by bringing actions like this, the California AG and others are slowing this down and ultimately making it less likely that it happens.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah. Interestingly, when I interviewed Jack Smith, he said that he liked seeing sort of state attorneys general take action where their legal prerogatives are relevant. You also have more time to inform the public about what's going on and why it matters, which you do every day. Oliver Darcy, thank you for joining us with your coverage on this, Brendan and Claire, you do that every time you're here. Thank you for spending the whole hour with me today. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. On this program, we endeavor every day to cover not just Donald Trump and all the ways he threatens democracy and our democratic norms, but also the institutions and the people around him who allow those norms to erode. The media has been a prime example, as we've covered over the last two hours, particularly in his second term and my guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast, longtime CNN anchor, now independent journalist Jim Acosta. Talk to me about the troubling shifts he's seen. Take a listen.

[Co-Host]

When Jeff Zucker had my back, he really had my back as a journalist covering Donald Trump, that is essential. And he knew that he had the backing for the most part of the parent companies. And I don't think that that's the case right now in a lot of these corporate media outlets and the public can sniff this stuff out.

[Oliver Darcy]

People are smart enough to understand viewers totally.

[Co-Host]

The viewers can totally understand what's happen when ABC pays that what's basically a bribe and CBS pays what's basically a bribe. You know, people can figure that out. They're just like, you guys are so chicken. And so I think that's a big component in all of this. But in terms of why these big companies, people like Larry Ellison, want to do this, I think there's an ideological investment in this and that there are people in this country who would just rather not have a democratic republic and not have checks and balances and have a unitary executive who is all powerful and let the chips fall where they may because that design, that architecture, allows them to gobble up as much money as possible in a lifetime. And I just, the question I always have for those folks is what kind of world are you leaving to your kids and your grandkids? They're going to invest, they're going to inherit all of this money, but then the country will be in shambles around them. How does that work?

[Chris Hayes]

Jim is as brilliant and insightful as he is delightful. You don't want to miss the rest of our conversation. Scan the QR code on your screen to listen or download it. Wherever you get your podcast, let me know what you think on Instagram or bluesky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful.

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