“Todd Blanche’s DOJ takeover”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Todd Blanche’s DOJ takeover"

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Host: Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW
Date: August 13, 2026
Episode Overview:
This episode provides in-depth analysis of Attorney General Todd Blanche’s first address to Department of Justice employees and examines the gulf between his stated commitments to the rule of law and the actions of the DOJ under his leadership. Host Nicolle Wallace draws on exclusive interviews and expert guests to explore the DOJ’s politicization, the weaponization of government institutions, targeted attacks on public servants, and the ongoing personal and institutional consequences of the Trump administration’s second term.

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Main Theme

The core theme of this episode is the transformation of the Department of Justice under Todd Blanche’s leadership:

• Contrasting Blanche’s public commitments to impartial justice with the realities of DOJ actions under the Trump administration.
• Examining the personal cost to targeted individuals (judges, public servants, critics).
• Analyzing new forms of presidential corruption, specifically the monetization of privileged government information.
• Highlighting the broader breakdown of democratic norms and the moral injury to both institutions and individuals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Todd Blanche’s First Address as Attorney General

• Blanche’s message (00:50): Blanche promised to "uphold the rule of law fairly and impartially" and to show "respect for the role of the judiciary" ([00:50], [02:42], [04:10], [13:46]).
• Nicolle Wallace’s analysis (01:12): Wallace quickly pivots from Blanche’s words to reality:

  “The daylight between what Todd Blanche said today and what has happened since he’s been running the Department of Justice so far is extraordinary.” (01:12)

• Blanche’s remarks are positioned as disconnected from both DOJ practices and the lived experiences of public servants.

2. Targeting Trump’s Critics and Former DOJ/FBI Officials

• Jim Comey’s Experience (02:08):
  • Repeated DOJ indictments against former FBI Director Jim Comey and others seen as Trump critics.
  • Comey reflects:

    “There’s a cost to speaking up in this strange era, awful era we're now. … I’m not going to be quiet.” (02:22)

• Pattern of retaliation extends to figures like John Brennan, Jim Clapper, and others.

3. Attacks Against the Judiciary

• Judge Jack McConnell on threats (03:23):

  "There is an unprecedented amount of personal attacks against judges... It’s systematic, it’s growing, it’s severe." (03:23)

  • Attributed directly to “high level members in the executive branch.”
  • Suggests attacks on judges are a prelude to the broader breakdown of equal justice.

4. Politicized Prosecutions and Erosion of DOJ Norms

• The case of David Hearn (04:20 - 05:12):
  • Former Olympian prosecuted on dubious grounds.
  • Host and panel note the lack of legitimate evidence and suggest political orchestration.
  • Ken Delaney notes (06:36): Blanche’s address was met with skepticism by journalists, given his track record of norm-breaking and orchestrated DOJ compromise.
  • Quote:

    “Almost everything he said is contradicted by his actions." (Ken Delaney, 07:15)

5. DOJ Hollowed Out—Mass Exodus of Career Servants

• Host:
  • “The current DOJ is a completely hollowed out and traumatized version of what it once was. Thousands… have left... Todd Blanche personally directed and oversaw the firing or forcing out of hundreds of career DOJ public servants and then bragged about it.” (05:12)
• Melissa Murray:

  "It's a little bit like a burglar promising to put back all the stuff he burgled." (11:44)

  • Describes Blanche as someone who broke the DOJ and now claims he’ll fix it.

6. Blanche’s Role, Psychology, and Relationship with Trump

• Ken Delaney:
  • Suggests Blanche wants to be seen as a “normal” Attorney General, but consistently capitulates to Trump’s demands.
  • His legacy will be one of “compromises” that cement politicization at the DOJ.
• Melissa Murray:
  • “But he rode the wave that is Donald Trump and there’s no mainstream in that. ... This is all window dressing for what’s to come.” (12:13)

7. Weaponization of the DOJ and Internal Republican Tensions

• Nicole:
  • Trump’s attempts to further weaponize DOJ for personal retribution, even after Blanche’s appointment.
  • Blanche’s public statements reveal buy-in to narrative of victimization of Trump allies.
  • Ken Delaney: Blanche functions as the “least bad option” within Trump’s sphere, acting as a compromise that’s still fundamentally harmful (14:43).

8. Monetization of Presidential Announcements: Truth Social Scandal

• Segment intro (19:04):

  • Trump’s company offers market-moving government information to paying subscribers ($100k/month), raising clear questions of insider trading and constitutional breaches.
  • Notable outsider commentary:

    "Who's telling him this is a good idea?" (Joe Rogan, 19:10)

• Brendan Ballou (20:32):

  • Explains the legal challenge:
    • Truth Social provides privileged government info early to subscribers.
    • Says it’s "profoundly corrupt, absurdly corrupt, and also unconstitutional." (20:56)
    • Violates First Amendment: government cannot discriminate in who gets official info.
    • Potential for insider trading lawsuits down the line.

• Melissa Murray (23:05):

  • The greater threat is to “the basic framework of a democracy,” as press cannot function without equal access to government info.
  • "If the President has bypassed the traditional media … that's an unconstitutional condition." (23:36)

9. Retaliation Against Critics: Air Force One and Stripping Security Clearances

• Frank Kendall Interview (28:52):

  • Former Air Force Secretary describes being stripped of security clearance after criticizing Trump’s use of the Qatari-gifted jet.
  • Kendall’s view:

    "It's a pretty minor thing [but] my mother taught me a long time ago you should push back at bullies. ... This is kind of bullying behavior we're seeing from this administration all over the place. So I'm going to push back." (28:52)

  • Over 100 people reportedly stripped of security clearance for similar reasons.

• Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling (32:46):

  • Dismisses claims of classified leakage and describes revocation as “ludicrous.”
  • Emphasizes the importance of truthful experts serving national security interests.

10. Morale & Mental Health Crisis: USS Abraham Lincoln

• Reporting by Emma Snell (34:22):

  • Family members of deployed sailors detail food shortages, rampant exhaustion, and suicidal thoughts after an extended nine-month deployment during Trump’s war with Iran.
  • Leadership accused of brushing off sailors’ concerns about mental health and safety.

• Lt. Gen. Hertling (36:59):

  • Discusses challenges faced by service members when deployments are repeatedly extended beyond expectations.
  • Underscores importance of care and communication from leadership for troop morale.
  • “When they don’t have connections with their families … there was anger, there was disappointment.” (38:22)

• Kendall (40:42):

  • Urges independent inquiry: “The first thing that secretary should do is go get some people you trust onto that carrier to find out what’s really going on and get ground truth, and then you can act on that.” (41:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jim Comey on Retaliation:

  “There’s a cost to speaking up in this strange era, awful era we're now. … I’m not going to be quiet.” (02:22)

• Judge McConnell on Judicial Threats:

  "There is an unprecedented amount of personal attacks against judges…this constant personal attacks... is the beginning of the attack on equal justice under the law." (03:23)

• Melissa Murray on Blanche ‘Restoring Morale’:

  "It's a little bit like a burglar promising to put back all the stuff he burgled." (11:44)

• Ken Delaney on DOJ’s 85%:

  "80, whatever it is, 85% of the justice Department is running as it always has. ... And he tried to speak to that today and just telling people to ignore the noise..." (15:01)

• Brendan Ballou on Truth Social:

  "That just seems profoundly corrupt, absurdly corrupt. And it is also unconstitutional." (20:56)

• Melissa Murray on Press Freedom:

  "There is a requirement in the Constitution for freedom of the press to be able to cover government institutions. If you require advanced access ... that’s an unconstitutional condition." (23:36)

• Frank Kendall on Retaliation:

  "My mother taught me a long time ago you should push back at bullies. And this is kind of bullying behavior we're seeing from this administration all over the place." (28:52)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:50 – Todd Blanche's DOJ address (promise of impartiality, respect for judiciary)
• 02:08 – Jim Comey on targeting of Trump critics
• 03:23 – Judge Jack McConnell on growing threats to judges
• 04:54 – Ken Delaney and David Hearn’s prosecution
• 05:12 – Nicole on hollowing out of DOJ
• 06:36 – Reception of Blanche’s speech in DOJ (Ken Delaney)
• 09:42 – Brendan Ballou on DOJ’s disrespect for judiciary
• 11:44 – Melissa Murray on Blanche “fixing” problems he created
• 13:46 – Blanche’s remarks justifying “weaponization” narrative
• 16:28 – Coverage of DOJ politicization, hidden victims
• 20:32 – Brendan Ballou on Truth Social/Presidential announcements for sale
• 23:36 – Melissa Murray on constitutional risks to press and democracy
• 28:52 – Frank Kendall on loss of security clearance (retaliation)
• 34:22 – New reporting on USS Abraham Lincoln’s crisis at sea
• 36:59 – Gen. Hertling on family hardships and military morale
• 40:42 – Kendall on need for ground truth in military crisis

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Structure of the Episode

• Opening: Contrasts between Blanche’s rhetoric and DOJ reality
• Expert Panels: Detailed breakdowns with Ken Delaney, Brendan Ballou, and Melissa Murray
• Case Examples: Jim Comey, Judges, David Hearn
• Institutional Damage: DOJ “hollowed out,” morale in crisis
• Legal and Democratic Risks: Exclusive access to government info; Truth Social scandal
• Retaliation Against Critics: Frank Kendall’s case; military and security ramifications
• Military Family Hardship Story: USS Abraham Lincoln
• Closing Reflection: Mark Elias on the normalization of crisis and the pressing need for vigilance

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Conclusion

This episode of Deadline: White House underscores the acute tensions in America’s most powerful legal institution, exploring clear patterns of politicization, retribution, and normalization of previously unthinkable government behavior. Through testimony from affected individuals, legal scholars, and career journalists, Nicolle Wallace and her guests paint a chilling portrait of a DOJ and federal government fundamentally altered by Trump’s influence—and the real, human consequences for those inside and outside its walls. The conversation closes with a call for vigilance against the ongoing erosion of democratic norms and individual liberties.

Transcript

[Brendan Ballou]

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[Nicole]

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[Todd Blanche]

I promise you that I will focus on our core mission, which is to uphold the rule of law fairly and impartially to keep this great country safe and to protect the rights of every citizen in this country. It's a promise that we're going to uphold the law without fear or favor.

[Nicole]

Hi again Everybody. It's now 5 o' clock in the East. Newly sworn in Attorney General Todd Blanche addressed employees of the Department of Justice earlier today. And if you take what he said right there at the podium, what we just played for you in a vacuum, it sounded pretty good, right? Going to uphold the rule of law in our country. He's going to make sure that justice in our country will be applied equally to everyone. But unfortunately for all of us, we do not live in that vacuum. And the daylight between what Todd Blanche said today and what has happened since he has been running the Department of Justice so far is extraordinary. Let's break down a few things he said, starting with, we're going to uphold the rule of law without fear of favor. Well, that's not the experience of former Director of the FBI Jim Comey, who's been indicted by Trump's Justice Department twice. Here's what he said when I spoke to him about being a constant target of Donald Trump's and how his family feels about it.

[Jim Comey]

Look, it's bad to be indicted. It's bad when someone you love is indicted. But they've kind of gotten used to the fact that because I've been a critic of Donald Trump, I'm a target. I'm sure John Brennan's family feels that way, Jim Clapper's family and lots of others. There's a cost to speaking up in this strange era, awful era we're now. I think they accept that. I think they're proud that I act the way I do. I'm not going to be quiet

[Nicole]

Tablanch today also proclaimed to hold a reverence for judges in the justice system.

[Todd Blanche]

We will always respect the role of the judiciary. We will not engage in or stand for and any sort of performative attacks that undermine the institutions that we are sworn to uphold.

[Nicole]

It's one of the most gobsmackingly untrue things he said today. It is not the experience for the actual federal judges who now face high level government officials calling them names and then the subsequent violent threats against them for having ruled against Donald Trump's policies, rulings that they have made while just doing their job. Here's U.S. district Court Judge Jack McConnell speaking with me about that last week.

[Judge Jack McConnell]

There is an unprecedented amount of personal attacks against judges, not just me, but all across the country. It's systematic, it's growing, it's severe. They're sustained efforts, in my opinion. They're a result of sustained efforts by high level members in the executive branch. This constant personal attacks on my fellow district judges and myself and their families is the beginning of the attack on equal justice under the law, according to

[Nicole]

the rule of law. When addressing DOJ employees earlier today, Todd Blanche also said this.

[Todd Blanche]

Making sure that every case we bring or we defend is decided based on the facts in the law and not for some other purpose,

[Nicole]

checks notes based on the facts in the law. Really? Seriously. Cameras were rolling. They didn't even pretend that facts were important when they charged David Hearn, remember him, the former Olympian, with vandalizing Trump's much ballyhooed reflecting pool. The case against him was eventually dismissed, even though Donald Trump wants that guy Todd Blanche to bring it back. Here's how David Hearn described hearing U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro read out the charges against him.

[Ken Delaney]

That was a little bit of a shock, but it was so. The things she was saying were so outrageous, I had to try to put together, okay, what did I do that's getting her to say I did these things because I didn't know how that connection

[Nicole]

because there were no facts. And there's more. There was where Todd Blanche began his remarks today by acknowledging those who work at the Department of Justice and saying that there are no better civil servants anywhere in the world. Something we actually agree with. But the reality is that the current DOJ is a completely hollowed out and traumatized version of what it once was. Thousands of DOJ employees, career public servants, have left the Department of Justice on Todd Blanche's watch because of him and because of the Trump administration. Todd Blanche personally directed and oversaw the firing or forcing out of hundreds of career DOJ public servants and then bragged about it to Matt Schlapp at cpac. He said we, quote, canned them. People who worked on cases that investigated the president's conduct or prosecuted the violent January 6th insurrectionists. Todd Blanche's empty words are where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Justice and Intelligence reporter Ken Delaney joins us. He was in the room for that as Todd Blanche addressed DOJ employees this morning. Also joining us, the founder of the Public Integrity Project and the former special counsel inside the Department of Justice, Brendan Bluesback and NYU law professor and legal analyst Melissa Murray. Sierra. Ken, you first. How were his comments received?

[Ken Delaney]

Well, in the room, Nicole, they were received warmly because the room was filled with loyalists and newly hired political appointees who clapped and stood for Todd Blanch. But I was sitting in the back rows with reporters and we were just slack jawed. Well, first of all, it's worth saying this. Todd Blanche is a pretty good public speaker. He was a former prosecutor, after all, and he has this really kind of endearing demeanor. He was humble, he was earnest. He was funny. He was saying all the right things. And if you would just as you said up top, if you just walked in there from Mars and didn't know anything about what's been going on at the Department of Justice, you would think that this was an unremarkable address that could have been given by any attorney general in American history, except for the fact that, as you just laid out, almost everything he said is contradicted by his actions. And look, I'm not a psychologist. I don't want to do armchair psychology. But I have talked to people who know Todd Blanche who say that there's a part of him that wants to run a normal Justice Department and that maybe he thought he could or at least do what Bill Barr did in the first Trump term and sort of hold Trump off and kind of be normal and run it the way it's always been run. But then he quickly realized that that was not gonna happen when he was deputy attorney general and about agreeing to and orchestrating a series of compromises that have remade the Justice Department and have shattered decades of norms. But he still wants people to think that he's running a normal Justice Department. He wants to be remembered. This is the version of Todd Blanche that he wants the history books to reflect. Unfortunately, we're not living in that world and there's just too much evidence to the contrary.

[Alicia Menendez]

Nicole

[Nicole]

Brandon Ballou, your thoughts?

[Brendan Ballou]

Well, the line that I was thinking about when you're going through those clips was about respect for the judiciary. And I actually just came back from a court hearing where, you know, suing the Department of Justice for failing to comply with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. And it was just a pretty astounding two hour experience of watching this judge, Judge Sullivan, who's enormously well respected, bend over backwards to try to get the Department of Justice to answer basic questions about why they weren't following his court orders. And the Department of Justice, the lawyers just did not have answers. There were long periods of silence where they weren't able to answer anything. And it just makes me think about how, you know, in that case they have. The Department of Justice has now blown through court order after court order. And I think it's emblematic of what the Department of Justice has become, which is, you know, not just disrespectful of judges, but at least in substance, contemptuous and, you know, really seeing them as an impediment to accomplishing their objectives rather than partners in trying to do justice. And so, you know, I was just talking with some prosecutor friends afterwards. It's just heartbreaking to watch what the, what the agency's become over the past two years.

[Nicole]

I mean, Brendan, the judges, in their own telling, believe that Todd Blanch is part of. Judge Jack McConnell there is talking about high level officials from the executive branch saying things that threaten their lives and their family's lives. It's not just the disdain for the rule of law and their rulings, it's an enthusiasm for personally endangering their safety.

[Brendan Ballou]

Yeah, you know, I think the, the threats are an inevitable consequence of how this administration has been talking about judges. When you have members of the administration or members of Congress talking about impeaching judges just for issuing sort of ordinary rulings that go against what the government wants. When you have people talking about, you know, the, these judges as enemies of the people or enemies of democracy and so forth, I mean, that is classic illiberal leader, you know, rhetoric. You see it in El Salvador, you see it in Turkey, you see it in Russia and so forth. So, you know, I think Ken made a really good point, which is, I think Todd Blanch is a former federal prosecutor. He used to be an sdny. He was, you know, somebody that actually was part of what you might call the legal establishment or the legal mainstream. I'm sure at some level he would like to be a mainstream Attorney General, but he has shown over and over again a willingness to just buy into the worst instincts of the President and those immediately around him, but to enthusiastically bring those instincts to force in prosecutions.

[Nicole]

He's also destroyed the department, Melissa, quote, under Blanche's leadership, which is since he became Deputy Attorney General In March of 25, more than 16,000 DOJ employees have left the department, including a quarter of its attorneys. He's overseen the termination of hundreds of employees, including agents, attorneys and professional staff who worked on January six cases at the special and the special counsel Jack Smith investigations.

[Melissa Murray]

So it's really stunning, Nicole. You know, Todd Blanche gave a speech today that one would expect of someone who was coming in as a kind of blank slate. But we all know that Todd Blanche has written shotgun to Pam Bondi for the last two years. And you know, the things that he is railing against, the things that he says he's going to fix are the things that he broke. And he's been part of the apparatus that has led to the disunity in the Department of Justice, that's led to people leaving, that's led to low morale. I mean, now him taking to the podium and saying that he's going to restore the morale in this beleaguered department is a little bit like a burglar promising to put back all the stuff he burgled. So, you know, again, I think there's a lot here. I love Ken's armchair psychology of Todd Blanch. And you're right, he's not only a very good public speaker, he's someone with a really interesting background. He's someone who went to Brooklyn Law School during the evening program. Humble roots. And he's risen to the very top of the legal profession. I have no doubt he would like to be a mainstream guy. But. But he rode the wave that is Donald Trump and there's no mainstream in that. And I think he's likely to have to reckon with that going forward. And this is all window dressing for what's to come.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I mean, I think I appreciate the psychological analysis cuz it seems so central to this, but it's very obvious from the outside of the relationship between Trump and Todd Blanche that Trump doesn't respect Todd Blanche. All Trump had to do was drop the weaponization fund, right? That's all he had to do. And instead he went through this humiliating. The whole Trump story is about Republicans totally controlled by Donald Trump and sycophantic loyalty to him. The one thing they buck him on, the one thing they don't let him do is appoint Todd Blanche. Here he is already reversing himself on the anti weaponization button, which was the Ostensible stumbling block for Tillis and Cornyn. Let me show you that

[Todd Blanche]

the President feels very strongly, as do I, that there were people who were victims of a Department of justice that was absolutely weaponized. And he feels very strongly that he would want to make them whole, as do I. But it will not be through the anti weaponization fund, which again, was never set up and nothing has happened with it.

[Nicole]

So here's where I don't believe that he wants to be normal. A normal Attorney General doesn't believe that there's a single person that was, quote, a victim of the Department of Justice because all the Department of Justice did was investigate crimes and then leave it to a jury of the insurrectionist peers to render judgment. A Department of justice actually cannot be weaponized against the proud boy. I mean, if he wanted to be real, he wouldn't have said that. And he said that after he got the job. Ken, how do you see him trying to split the baby?

[Ken Delaney]

So I think that he understands that there are certain things he has to do to maintain his viability in the system, to use an old phrase, but that he is also marketing himself to those senators in particular that voted for him, those swing senators, as the least bad option as someone who is going to stop bad things behind the scenes. And he has done that. In fact, he drummed Ed Martin out of Main justice, to cite one example, and he iswhether spoken or unspoken, that message gets out to the Republican establishment. You know, whatever you think bad things that Todd Blanche did, it could be a lot worse. There are a lot worse people out there. And at least he's a former Prosecutor who, and look, 80, whatever it is, 85% of the justice Department is running as it always has. You know, there's no MAGA way to put drug dealers in prison, necessarily. And so, and he tried to speak to that today and just telling people to ignore the noise, ignore the high profile stories and just do your jobs. Of course, the high profile stories, though, are where American values and the traditional norms of the Justice Department are being compromised. The investigations of Donald Trump's political enemies, the weaponization fund, ad infinitum. And so you can't ignore those things. But that's the deal that he's made. From the time he left his law firm and threw his lot in as Donald Trump's defense attorney, he, he placed his bet on Donald Trump and that bet has now paid off in a huge way for him because he is one of the few people to serve as Attorney General of the United states. But he's also going to have his reputation forever will be tarnished, many people would argue, by the compromises that he's had to make to get this job.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And I think we probably don't know the scope of the David Hearns out there, the people for whom people like Jeanine Pirro cart around large cardboard white boxes proving that there's no evidence to charge them or convict them. We know about that because he, too, has a public profile and a very prominent attorney. So we probably don't know about that 85% figure.

[Melissa Murray]

Right.

[Nicole]

We don't know what we don't see. Kendall, lady, thank you, though, for joining us with your coverage of this. Brendan and Melissa, stick around. When we come back, we'll ask Brendan about the lawsuit he's bringing against Donald Trump in his latest corrupt scheme to profit off the presidency. Also ahead for us, the Trump administration's revenge campaign continues. This time it's against former Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall and all for speaking the truth about something that's clear to everyone, that Donald Trump's Qatari gifted Air Force One does not have the same security capabilities as the original Air Force One. Secretary Kendall will be our guest. Later in the hour, we'll also look at growing concerns from family members of sailors on board the USS Abraham Lincoln. It's a story we first covered here. And now there's disturbing new information about what some sailors are doing on board that ship after nearly nine months at sea. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Todd Blanche]

Hey, before your Q3 call, I've got the campaign brief ready, built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape.

[Melissa Murray]

Great. Did you include the differentiation angle the CMO asked for?

[Nicole]

Already in there. 3 angles no competitors using right now. Need your approval.

[Unidentified Monday.com Representative]

Approved.

[Melissa Murray]

Thanks. Oh, agents, where would we be without you?

[Alicia Menendez]

Hmm.

[Nicole]

Somewhere with a lot more tabs open.

[Melissa Murray]

Create your first Monday agent in [e-mail].

[Alicia Menendez (voiceover)]

ever since I was young, I've watched people working hard, chasing opportunity, making sacrifices, doing everything they can to build a better life. And now we're shining a light on what matters most, our economy, our national identity, our democracy, our future. The stakes have never been higher. It's all on the line.

[Alicia Menendez]

On the Line with Alicia Menendez, weekdays at 12pm Eastern on Ms. Now.

[Ken Delaney]

It's literally insider trading.

[Todd Blanche]

It's Kashi.

[Nicole]

Everything you can fix.

[Brendan Ballou]

Wait a minute.

[Frank Kendall]

Is that real? You get access to a tweet before

[Nicole]

he makes it, and then you could

[Frank Kendall]

bet on that tweet. How's that legal Wait a minute, what is this?

[Nicole]

Trump sued over True Social advance access sale.

[Brendan Ballou]

I'm online in the Oval Office.

[Ken Delaney]

Who's telling him this is a good idea? I feel like I need to be closer to.

[Nicole]

It's like an experiment to, I don't know, watch them open their eyes and see the guy they cheered to the presidency for who he really is. It's not a terrible question, right? Who's telling Trump it's a good idea? That was, of course, Joe Rogan and Shane Gillis, Uber, Uber, uber famous podcaster and comedian, respectively, this afternoon, just shooting the, you know what, talking about the latest corruption, latest service being offered by Donald Trump's social media company that now allows customers, people who pay for it, to gain access to Trump's market, moving missives on Truth Social for a mere $100,000 a month. And they're correct, of course, to question its legality. The service is already being sued by two media companies who in their lawsuits call it corrupt and unconstitutional. We're back with Brendan and Melissa. Brendan's group, the Public Integrity Project, is one of the groups that filed the that suit against True Social. Brendan, what are your thoughts about how and whether you'll be successful legally and what do you do for all of the gains that are being made in the interim while this is available?

[Brendan Ballou]

Yeah, so let's talk about the problem here, why we think we're going to win, and then talk about sort of what to do about this. So, you know, just to set the baseline, you know, True Social is the preferred method for Donald Trump to make any official announcement. That's where he hires people. That's where he fires people. That's where he announces war wars. That's where he announces cease fires. If you want to know what the government is doing, you have to use Truth Social. And the scheme here is to provide, and I'm quoting Trisocial itself, market moving statements from the president, vice president, FBI director, and other top leaders in the government, early access to those who are willing to subscribe for, as you said, $100,000 a month. And Truth Social has already said that they have a number of people signed up and that they're actually looking to expand the service to potentially encompass gambling or betting. So literally facilitating, you know, people taking bets on what the president's going to say in his official announcement. So that just seems profoundly corrupt, absurdly corrupt. And it is also unconstitutional. It's unconstitutional under the First Amendment. You know, the government can't discriminate in who it gives information to. So once it decides to make information public. It can't say, I'm going to withhold this information because you refuse to, for instance, contribute to the president's private company. It's unconstitutional under the 14th amendment, the equal protection clause that says that you have to treat people similarly and you can't have a rat. You have to have a rational basis for when you treat people differently. There's no rational basis here, you know, between distinguishing who gets information, whether they give a ton of money to the President or not. Now what to do about, you know, the folks that are already going to be making money here. You know, that's something for another lawsuit, potentially an insider trading lawsuit. It's also the work of potentially a future Department of Justice. You know, this is the kind of scheme where people are making money off of inside information that hopefully Department of Justice that respects the rule of law is going to prioritize.

[Nicole]

Melissa, I don't know what the legal standard is, but I want to say this carefully. If Shane Gillis and Joe Rogan describe it as insider trading and knowingly illegal conduct, is it the same as, you know, non falsity was the standard that Fox ultimately has to cough up a billion dollars to Dominion for in a libel context? If there are people who know as Shane Gillis and Joe Rogan there clearly do that this is flagrantly illegal at the time. Are they legally exposed?

[Melissa Murray]

Hard to say, Nicole. I mean, again, it depends on the specificity of the laws and sort of like the insider trading laws and how it would apply here. And you know, obviously there is a real problem with the President using this as a means of publicizing, as he puts it, market moving information and making it available on some kind of advanced basis to those who have paid for the service in advance. So, I mean, at the very least, it is incredibly, incredibly unethical and raises a number of problems, some of which may be statutory violations. What I think is so interesting at Brendan's lawsuit is that the point that they're making goes beyond this question of insider trading. It is about the basic framework of a democracy where the media is available as an accountability institution. If the President has bypassed the traditional media by releasing all of this information on Truth Social, his own privately controlled portal, and the media has to get early access in order to be able to cover the government in the same way as as these people who have this early access, that's an unconstitutional condition. There is a requirement in the Constitution for freedom of the press to be able to cover government institutions. If you require advanced access to be able to do that. That's an unconstitutional condition. It also impedes the First Amendment right of the press to be able to cover the government as a hedge against government encroachment as a means of calling the government to account. So there is a lot here. But to me, the most important thing is not the insider trading or the potential for insider trading. It's that this is about the way in which this practice goes to the very heart of what it means to be a functioning democracy.

[Nicole]

It's amazing. And you could see to pull back to our other conversation, this might be something Todd Blanche is having to defend against you. Brendan Ballou, Melissa Murray, thank you both so much for joining me today on these stories. When we come back, the former secretary of the Air Force who's been stripped of his security clearance by Defense Secretary Pete Hegsett for saying something about Donald Trump's Qatari Air Force One that is now obvious and plain for anyone and everyone to see. Former Secretary Frank Kendall will be our guest. Don't go anywhere.

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[Alicia Menendez (voiceover)]

Ever since I was young, I've watched people working hard, chasing opportunity, making sacrifices, doing everything they can to build a better life. And now we're shining a light on what matters most, our economy, our national identity, our democracy, our future. The stakes have never been higher. It's all on the line.

[Alicia Menendez]

On the line with Alicia Menendez, weekdays at 12:00pm Eastern on Ms. Now.

[Ken Delaney]

Well, it has a lot and it

[Frank Kendall]

has a lot of capability.

[Nicole]

But as I understand it, in about

[Frank Kendall]

a month or so, they're going to, you have it be maxed out. It'll take about a month.

[Nicole]

It has a lot of capability. I press the button, the seats lay flat. Even Donald Trump there had to publicly concede that his Qatari gifted palace in the sky, as he calls it, was lacking in the vital security features and still needed to be, quote, maximum before he could use it safely. That was last month after a bombshell report in the New York Times about concerns over the president's safety on that aircraft, which lawmakers have been demanding the White House disclose. We also learned that during the NATO summit In July, Trump even swapped it out, the gifted jet for his old Air Force One because it lacked those necessary military defenses before fleeing that second plane in a catering container under threat from Iran to a third aircraft. But this is the Trump administration where retribution for perceived criticism takes precedence over even non deniable truth and reality. First, Trump's Justice Department went after the New York Times reporters on that reporting with subpoenas, which the DOJ eventually withdrew. Then on Friday, the Pentagon revoked the security clearances of former Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall, claiming he had disclosed sensitive information. In that Time story, Secretary Kendall says he plans to sue the administration because his on the record quotes reveal nothing that wasn't already inherently obvious about the lack of time needed to make Air Force One level security modifications to a jet being used as Air Force One. I want to bring in former Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall. He's now a senior fellow for the center for American Progress. And his new book, Lethal Autonomy, The Future of Warfare, Whether we like it or not, is out now. Also joining our coverage, military analyst, retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling. He served as the commanding general of the US army in Europe. Secretary Kendall, first, your reaction to being stripped of your security clearances after this? In my opinion, rather innocuous quote in the New York Times story.

[Frank Kendall]

Nicole, thanks. Compared to a lot of the other things that injustices, I guess by this administration, it's a pretty minor thing, but it is without any merit and I have the opportunity to do something about it. My mother taught me a long time ago you should push back at bullies. And this is kind of bullying behavior we're seeing from this administration all over the place. So I'm going to push back. I've never said anything classified. There were some leakers who apparently did say something that are classified to the New York Times. I'm not one of those people. My guess here is that they went looking for those people, couldn't find them. They had my name and it was convenient. I've criticized the administration, you know, very vocally and very publicly ever since I left office. So it was a way to get a scalp, I guess, for the White House and, you know, make a point to people who want to speak out against the administration. So anyway, we're going to go to court over this and I'm pretty confident we're going to win.

[Nicole]

I was going to ask you something that you started to address there, which is do you think they stripped you of your security clearances because you've been a critic of Trump administration policies? Do you have Any suggestion or indication from anyone involved in this that that was the case.

[Frank Kendall]

Nobody's ever spoken to me at all about this. The only thing I've heard is the tweet that came out that announced that the revocation of my. Of my clearance. I did get an email the next day from an organization I was a consultant to, to do. Do some classified work, telling me that they've been told that my clearance had been revoked. And that's it. That's. That's all I've heard. So I'm speculating. The two obvious speculations again are that they needed, you know, somebody. A lot of pressure, I think, coming from the White House to get. Get the leakers. They couldn't do that, so they, they came for me. And also, of course, it sends a message to everybody who speaks out against this administration. You know, I'm in pretty good company here. Senator Kelly, for example, you know, is they've gone after him. There are a number of other people. My attorney, Mark Zaid, has also had his security clearance revoked. And I spoke to some people today, in fact, too, because of their DEI activities, a retired general had his clearance revoked. So this is a pretty common tool apparently this administration is using. There are over 100 people this has happened to, all, as far as I can tell, without any merit.

[Nicole]

And now that you see the story develop to what the Washington Post and the New York Times reported at the beginning of the week, that the story that you're quoted in isn't the full story at all, that Donald Trump actually left Turkey on a third aircraft after hiding inside a catering truck with Walt Nauta, who's his personal valet, and a woman described by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan as basically printing out positive feedback about Donald Trump on social media. What is your sense about what they were so agitated by in that story you're quoted in?

[Frank Kendall]

I don't know. I think somebody apparently said something about having less defensive measures on the new airplane, the gift that he got from Qatar. And then, of course, the story that you just related came out about shifting airplanes in the catering vehicle and so on. Look, I don't know what's on the Qatari airplane or not on it. It came in after I left the Air Force. I don't know what happened that triggered this, if it's true series of events. Apparently it is. The most bizarre thing about this to me is that the president left a great many people on Air Force One subject to whatever risk he was trying to avoid, without telling any of them or anything about it. That's disturbing.

[Nicole]

General Hartley, your thoughts with all of the new information we have as of this afternoon?

[Frank Kendall]

Yeah.

[Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling]

Well, first I'll comment on secretary's on the secretary's business because, you know, truthfully, I read the article in the New York Times. There was no classified leakage. And in fact, if they go after him, I would say they ought to go after Netflix because you can watch a documentary on Air Force One on Netflix and kind of get more of the same in terms of what it has versus what a normal 747 has. So it's just, it's just ludicrous that these kind of things are occurring. And my thought, truthfully, is people like the secretary who provide consulting advice to defense contractors are very critical because they give an inside look on what's happening in the military and it helps others, private corporations, to contribute to the US Military in various ways. Truthfully, Nicole, I asked for my clearance to be removed once I retired because I didn't want to be approached by defense contractors. I wanted to do something else when I left the military. But I would see the secretary as a patriot more than anything else when he's talking about the comments that relate to what Air Force One has and how it has to protect the president in all ways and not only protect him, but also have an airborne command post which requires an awful lot of equipment. And I don't believe the Qatari jet. Again, I don't know what the Qatari jet has, but I don't think you can turn a 747 into an aerial command post in just a few weeks like they had it.

[Nicole]

All right, no one's going anywhere. When we come back, we will ask our esteemed guests about troubling new developments about a story we first brought to you last week, the growing concern on the part of family members for their loved ones still on board the USS Abraham Lincoln. We'll bring you that reporting next. There is a deeply upsetting update to a story our own Priya Shriver brought us here last week about the extended deployment, the exhaustion and lack of basic needs that US Service members are facing on board the USS Abraham Lincoln now nearly nine months at sea and six months into Donald Trump's deeply unpopular war with Iran. Emma Snell spoke with the wife of a sailor who says her husband jumped overboard last week and was in the water for about an hour before he was rescued. She shared texts from her husband sent days before he jumped that read in part, quote, I think the boat is finally getting to me, and I really don't think I can keep up my peace act anymore. I'm really trying to not feel negative or hopeless. But between the WI fi and not knowing when I will come home and not knowing what is happening back at home, it's really getting to me. The Navy spokesperson tells Ms. Now this quote, we have not observed an increase in suicidal ideations aboard the ship. We take every service member's well being seriously and have medical and mental health professionals available to assess and address concerns as they arise. Just breaking this afternoon, though, the Wall Street Journal is now reporting that the Trump administration is preparing to send a fresh aircraft carrier to replace the USS Lincoln as part of a, quote, previously scheduled rotation plan. That's according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter. We're back with Secretary Kendall and General Hertling. General Hertling, this is reporting and I imagine it is extremely, extremely painful for family members to speak out about these things. My sense is that usually the military takes care of its own before it becomes something this dire and this public. But I want to read you more of what our colleague reported. Quote, food obviously has been scarce. All he's told me this is from a family member is that there's a time when he was only eating half a cup of rice and two tortillas. The morale is bad, not being able to shower. They don't have toiletries. You know, they're having to share stuff. They're exhausted. Trump doesn't want the bad publicity and he knows that. You can't tell me he does not know what's going on over there. Your thoughts about how it came to this?

[Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling]

Yeah, a couple of things, Nicole. The first thing is that having spent my life with men and women who are in the service of their country, they'll do any mission that they're asked to do as long as they maintain trust and care from those that lead them and that they know what the mission is and that they know how they're contributing to it. As you probably Remember, back in 2003, I was with the 1st Armored Division in Baghdad and we were getting ready to come home and the Secretary of Defense told us we were staying for three more months. So it turned into a 15 month tour. Had another 15 month tour in 2007 and 8. That's dog years. When you're in the army, you're doing things. You're missing birthdays, you're missing anniversaries, but you're doing the mission. Having spent a little bit of time on an aircraft carrier, I'll tell you, God bless the Navy guys, because I don't see how sailors do what they do. It's 24, 7, 365. Whenever they're on the ship, they don't get a break. They're shift work. It's, it's. You can't sleep very well. I was on this aircraft carrier, couldn't sleep because of continual landing. I, I hit my knees every night thanking God I was in the army and not the Navy for the couple of days I was on that aircraft area. So that's what we're looking at right now. And when they don't have connections with their families. When we were extended in Iraq in 2003 and four, General Dempsey, the Division commander, sent me back to Europe for three days to explain to the families what was going on. And I had an experience, as he kiddingly said, hey, you're going to go into another combat tour because you're going to talk to the family members. And it was exactly that. There was anger, there was disappointment. They didn't care what the mission was. They just wanted their soldiers home. And I can tell you 100 stories about what I heard over a bunch of different locations in Germany when I went back. This is tough. And the message from the Navy about not a larger set of suicide ideations. Well, how many is normal on an, on an aircraft carrier? I don't know. But I had four suicides in my division in combat in 2007 and eight. And each one was devastating. So you have to care for your people and make sure that they have that connection home through wi fi or letters or whatever, and that their quality of life is halfway decent, even though they've been asked to do hard things.

[Nicole]

And Secretary Kendall, let me just say again that the families, I think this is what General Hartling is getting it. Are already doing something that is unimaginable, right? They're going months and months and months without their mom or their dad or with their parents, without their son or their daughter. And let me read you more from the wife of the husband that some of this reporting is about. From msnow's reporting, quote, the wife said that her husband went to his chain of command and the medical team on the ship and expressed concerns about his mental health and apparently told them he was not okay, he was not doing okay. The wife said her husband said they kept brushing him off. She also said her husband expressed concern that his prescription contact lenses had expired and that he was having trouble seeing and doing his work properly. He works on helicopters on the carrier's flight deck and told her he believes it had led to accidents there. I mean, this is the safety of this, of this individual that he's tried to sound the alarm about. But it sounds like what he's worried about is that without his prescription contact lenses, he's endangering the lives of others. How is this happening?

[Frank Kendall]

Look, I think Mark described the situation really well. We both have an army background, but I've spent some time on carriers as well. A couple of major points here, Nicole. These families aren't lying to us, okay? They're telling us what they're hearing from their sailors on the ship. So when Secretary Hegseth comes out and says everything's fine, he doesn't know if everything's fine or not. We don't either. We only know these isolated things that we're hearing. So the first thing that secretary should do is go get some people you trust onto that carrier to find out what's really going on and get ground truth, and then you can act on that. These are all very credible. The families and the people deployed have to carry a pretty big emotional burden when they do this. And part of the way you handle that is you steel yourself for a certain period of time, for the length of the absence that you're going to have to endure, and you kind of start counting down through that. And you. And it's an expectation that you can manage to a certain degree. But what's been happening is these extensions keep coming, and that expectation has to be reset. That's a very emotional burden, both on the people on the ships as well as on their families. And eventually that gets pretty old. The shortages, I don't know. They could be there. I do know that the operational tempo has been very high, and that wears people down. You know, Mark described it pretty well. Shift work and you often have other things you have to do when you're off shift. I've experienced that. So it's a very stressful environment, and it can lead to more suicidal tendencies and can also lead to operational failure and tragic accidents.

[Nicole]

We should say, too, that government officials contacted by msnow couldn't comment because of privacy regulations around medical records. Secretary Frank Kendall, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, we thank both of you for joining us for this conversation. And we just want to say this and mention that if you or anyone you know is in crisis, you or they can call or text 988 to reach the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline or chat live at 988lifeline.org quick break for us. We'll be right back. My guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast has been fighting to protect our democracy and our elections for years now. Mark Elias is a familiar face to viewers of this program, but in this conversation, we got to go deep. And I pressed him on how he thinks about the next two years of Trump's presidency. Take a listen to part of that conversation.

[Mark Elias]

You know, one of the things that always causes me some concern is people will say, you know, we are heading towards.

[Nicole]

Yeah, no, we're there.

[Mark Elias]

And I'm like, we're there. Like, you know, like, there's a. There's a. There is even now in many quarters, a, like, an emotional need to suggest that we are not yet at the point, yeah, we're there. And I'm like, no, no, we're there. I don't know, it's. Maybe it's my disposition, but I certainly hope that we, that we are able to rally enough support against not just what Donald Trump will do around the elections, because I think there, I do think we will, we will beat back the attacks on free and fair elections. It'll be a little messy, but I think we'll do it. I'm actually worried more about the second two years of his term. And the question at that point is, are we able to continue to keep people vigilant and engaged when political prosecutions become really routine? And this question came up about whether people are just getting kind of inured to it all?

[Nicole]

You don't want to miss the rest of this essential conversation. It's out right now. You scan the QR code on your screen or you can download the best people. Wherever you get your podcasts, be sure to let me know what you think on Instagram or bluesky. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.

[Alicia Menendez]

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[Nicole]

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[Alicia Menendez]

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