← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Trump bends the national security apparatus to his will”
00:42:22
July 3, 2026; 4pm: Ayman Mohyeldin is in for Nicolle Wallace. Ayman and guests cover Acting DNI Bill Pulte enacting Trump’s agenda for the national security apparatus.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:06]
Ayman Mohideen
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- [00:09]
Michael Feinberg
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- [00:10]
Jack Smith
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- [01:05]
Ayman Mohideen
Hi everyone, it is four o'clock in New York. I'm Ayman Mohideen in for Nicole Wallace. News Breaking earlier today, revealing that Donald Trump's quest to bend our national security apparatus to his will has now been turbocharged by his acting director of national intelligence, Bill Pulte, Ms. NOW's Vaughn Hilliard has some exclusive new reporting that, quote, dozens of intelligence officials began receiving notice of their terminations on Thursday under Bill Pulte. An intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity due to potential reprisals, told msnow that the individuals being removed by the Trump administration are officials who they believe are deep. State intelligence leadership alleges that the fired workers have not provided complete pictures of available intelligence. The official said the moves come after Pulte's elimination last month of six political appointees who served under Tulsi Gabbard, the previous director of national Intelligence now. The premise is absurd, one of the former officials said. Another of the former officials questioned how Pulte, who has no experience working in intelligence, would be able to make such a determination so quickly. Quote, I have a real question of how he would know this. This isn't a guy who is familiar with intelligence, said the former official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, citing concerns about retaliation. How is he going to get to the bottom of this and rely on any information with a matter of fidelity? It would be like me taking over a hospital and firing dozens of surgeons in a matter of days. A recent Wall Street Journal interview with Donald Trump, however, making it clear that this is less about Pulte managing to uncover some new information about these intelligence officers and more about passing a loyalty test. The Wall Street Journal reported at the time this just last month, quote, president Trump said that he wants Bill Pulte, his incoming acting director of national intelligence, to begin firing a large number of employees as part of a shakeup of the US Intelligence community. I'd like to see it smaller. I think there are a lot of people in there that shouldn't be there, trump said, pointing to holdovers from the Biden and Obama administrations. Now, asked whether he is calling on Pulte to fire people, Trump said that he wants him to start the process, adding that his eventual nominee to serve in the role of permanently should continue that work as well. Now, for their part, intelligence officials are crystal clear that Donald Trump hollowing out the ODNI in the same way that he has done the FBI and the Department of Justice will be detrimental to the safety and well being of Americans. In fact, one former intelligence official told Ms. Now, quote, the intelligence community is comprised of committed professionals. This is a fantasy. It only hurts U.S. national security. It is helpful to Russia, China and Iran. A spokesperson for the CIA did not respond to a request for comment. Donald Trump kicking off the fourth of July by making us more vulnerable to enemies, foreign and domestic is where we begin today with former assistant special agent in charge of the FBI and national security intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg. Also with us, NYU law professor and legal analyst Melissa Murray and senior White House reporter Vaughn Hilliard, who is bylined on this reporting that we have been reading from throughout this setup. Vaughn, let's start with you. This is an extraordinary piece of reporting. Walk us through more of it and what you have learned.
- [04:31]
Vaughn Hilliard
Right, Eamonn. I'm told that yesterday the terminations began and officials began leaving the office of the Director of National Intelligence. And I'm told that the expectation among intelligence officials is that in the coming days there will be more among the dozens who will be formally fired. Bill Pulte could serve in this position up to 210 days in this acting capacity. Of course, he's been mad already in the last month by much pushback up on Capitol Hill, much concern for somebody that has no history of being or serving in the intelligence community or dealing with classified information, being tapped into this role. Of course, Jay Clayton, the U.S. attorney from the Southern District of New York, has been formally nominated for to serve as the Director of National Intelligence moving forward. But there is a pause in that confirmation process. And right now, Bill Pulte is effectively making it clear through these actions that he is carrying out the wishes of the President of the United States, Donald Trump. He was brought in after serving as the head of the housing agency over the course of the last year and a half to do exactly what these dozens of firings are doing. I am told by an intelligence official that the understanding is that those individuals who are being removed from their posts are alleged by leadership to have, number one, engaged in being part of the, quote, deep state, and number two, that they did not turn over or did not provide full assessments of the intelligence that fell under their purview. Of course, what we are hearing from former intelligence officials is that those allegations are so difficult to compreh and that they're, according to our colleague David Rhode, who is also bylined in this, that there is really no history of individuals in the intelligence community not providing accurate assessments to those in Leadership within the 18 different intelligence agencies that fall under the office of the Director of National Intelligence. And that is where these actions, they are so consequential because we're not talking about six political appointees who served under Tulsi Gabbard, those that were fired two weeks ago by Bill Pulte. We're talking about until dozens of career officials that served in this office well before the Trump. President Trump came into office in 2025.
- [06:58]
Ayman Mohideen
Vaughn, let's, let's just take a step back for a minute and tell me who Bill Pulte is. You touched on him briefly, but obviously the question is he's in this temporary role. But why does Donald Trump like him so much and why and how has he ended up in this position?
- [07:14]
Vaughn Hilliard
You think he's a loyalist. And he is somebody who the president said he wanted to make a part of his Cabinet. He fits that kind of profile. Somebody that he would not question his allegiance and his commitment to carrying out the desires of President Trump, which, if you go back to the first administration, time and again, you heard the president through firings, replace people in his Cabinet because they didn't carry out his wishes. Dan Coats, you'll recall the former senator from Indiana, somebody who is a close friend of Mike Pence, served as Director of National Intelligence, and it ended up seeing his Way out of the administration, largely because of frustration by President Trump. Bill Pulte is somebody who had no government experience. He's in his mid-30s. He came in to oversee the agency that oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. But he is also a member of Mar A Lago. He was a big donor to President Trump's campaign. And he is somebody, when he was serving as the head of that housing agency, actually referred Letitia James, he referred James Comey, he referred other individuals, Eric Swalwell, to the Department of Justice for alleged mortgage fraud, which he said fell under his purview. People that he said had wrongfully claimed two primary residencies. And he turned over document that he believed the Department of Justice should use to attempt to indict and prosecute those individuals. Of course, none of those individuals have seen a day in court. Several of those indictments were, in fact, tossed out. But he caught the eye of Donald Trump because even though he was serving as the head of that housing agency, he used information that he had access to within that agency and made referrals over to the Department of Justice, ones that ultimately US Attorneys, as well as Ed Martin used to go and try to fulfill the type of retribution campaign that Donald Trump made very clear in 2024 and coming into 2025, he wanted people within his cabinet to carry out. Bill Pulte is somebody here over the course of the last year who is continually at the forefront of carrying out those types of wishes.
- [09:27]
Ayman Mohideen
Michael, I want you to level set for us here and certainly for our viewers, as we learn potentially about the identity of these officials or the positions they occupied or even the responsibilities that they had within the intelligence community. How damaging is this? How disruptive is this to our ability to protect Americans and disruptive to the intelligence community writ large?
- [09:49]
Michael Feinberg
Yeah. So I would say these actions fall somewhere on the spectrum between wildly irresponsible and horribly idiotic. It was hyperbole that was used a lot, particularly during the war on terror in both Republican and later Democratic administrations, to say that if the president or Congress or an agency didn't get their way, Americans were going to die. And I think the constant refrain of that sort of eroded its ability to prod the public into supporting certain things. But I feel confident that if you start shedding massive numbers of subject matter experts in the intelligence community, Americans will die. And I want to be very clear about what I mean, it might be the case that the National Counterterrorism center under ODNI has less responsible leadership and less workforce, and as a result, A plot doesn't get unraveled in time before a bomb goes off. But this is also the sort of thing that could haunt us a generation or two from now. If we jettison this afternoon an expert in Russian arms technology or an expert in how China's tech sector fuses with its military infrastructure, we could be in an armed conflict 10 years from now, 20 years from now. And the fact that we weren't able to do our intelligence obligations today means that at that time in the future, American soldiers, American midshipmen, American marines are going to be at a material disadvantage in armed conflict. So I get that this is going to be emotionally satisfying for the Trump administration. But every American, regardless of their political stripes, should realize that what this is functionally doing is making them, their neighbors, their families and their friends orders of magnitude less safe than they've really been at any time since 9 11.
- [11:59]
Ayman Mohideen
Yeah, Michael, that was an excellent explanation about the long term impacts of this as well. The morale though, of having to watch colleagues that you may know, if you're an intelligence officer or somebody in the intelligence community waking up to the news that people who might not be loyal to the vision of this administration certainly will have an impact on how they gather, analyze and distribute information and intelligence across this administration, would it not?
- [12:30]
Michael Feinberg
Well, I don't think it's going to have an impact on how they disseminate intelligence in terms of day to day operations because the people were talking about our professionals. Quite frankly, nobody I ever dealt with at the FBI or CIA or NSA on an almost daily basis cared one thing for who was in power in terms of political parties. Their job was to inform policymakers about facts on the ground and objective ways of analyzing those facts so that the policymakers can make decisions that would keep the country safe. What is going to happen, though, is a destruction. Maybe that's not the wrong word, a hollowing out of the workforce in the sense of people who really know what they're doing that are going to be willing to stay, people who would otherwise join that have expertise on China or Russia or Shiite or Sunni, strands of foreign terrorist organizations or domestic terrorist organizations here in the United States States. Those people aren't going to want to work for a government that doesn't value their input. And in addition to those two categories, I'm going to add one more. When you have an intelligence workforce that is being treated like dirt, living in fear that they are going to get fired every day, and whose contributions to the government are not valued, they are much easier targets for foreign intelligence services to recruit, to betray the United States. There is literally not a single lens through which you can view these actions which would demonstrate they are making our intelligence community more professional, more efficient or better for our country.
- [14:25]
Ayman Mohideen
Yeah, a very important point about the morale in all of this. Melissa, let me ask you about the legality in all of this. Is any of this legal? Do the fired staffers here have any legal recourse?
- [14:36]
Melissa Murray
Really depends on what the regulations are within the agencies. We've already saw today that a federal appellate court was reviewing a preliminary injunction that had been filed on behalf of a group of agency employees that had been terminated because of their work on diversity initiatives. The lower court issued an injunction preventing the administration from doing that, and the appellate court affirmed that, relying principally on the fact that although the executive has broad discretion to terminate members of these agencies, there are often prescribed policies and procedures that have to be followed, such as reassignment to another duty or another desk or alternatively, the opportunity to be heard in some kind of appeal. The government tried to contest that, saying that in the end, it's obviously the official at the agency, the head of the agency, that gets to determine whether those appeals or those processes are going to go forward. And so it's sort of a null set if they don't want the individuals there and they don't want to go through the process. But the court held nonetheless, those regulations are on the books. Those are the procedures that you have to abide by. And if you haven't followed them, you haven't allowed these individuals appropriate due process. So there could very well, depending on the regulations, the lawsuits that are filed. Again, there's a lot to say here about Bill Pulte's actions. He's only supposed to be a temporary fill in here while Jay Clayton is being confirmed. Nomination is obviously on hold. The president said this is going to be a month. But the Federal Vacancies act provides for Bill Pulte to serve in this capacity for 210 days. And then while the nomination of Jay Clayton is pending at the Senate, he can still continue to serve irrespective of that 210 days. And if the nomination fails, he can then continue to serve for another 210 days. So the idea that this is a short term fill in for Bill Pulte, and I'm not sure that that's the case. I think we may be with this particular person serving as acting DNI for a while.
- [16:34]
Ayman Mohideen
Yeah, I was going to add to that point really quickly a quote actually from a recent Trump interview where he talks about Bill Pulte in this acting status and he says you're less shackled. It sort of gives you more power, you know, for a somewhat limited period of time. To your point, Melissa Murray Vaughn, Hillary, thank you so much for bringing us that incredible reporting today. Really appreciate it. Melissa Michaels, Stay with me. When we come back, the hollowing out of the FBI and the Justice Department. We're going to show you what Jack Smith had to say about that in Nicole's exclusive interview with the special counsel. Plus, Donald Trump's Great American State Fair is not going so great from a collapsing stage to heat related closures as Democrats allege potential criminality in the run up to the fair. And later in the program, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs ousted by Donald Trump and Pete Hexit is speaking out and warning about a danger to a politicized military. All of those stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [17:39]
Jack Smith
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Ayman Mohideen
ones kind of like him. Are you shaking a maraca? Nope.
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Jack Smith
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Tim Miller
A nice disclaimer, thanks.
- [17:50]
Jack Smith
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- [18:05]
Ayman Mohideen
there's a pill version of Ozempic.
- [18:08]
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- [19:12]
Jack Smith
They've jettisoned expertise.
- [19:14]
Ayman Mohideen
Right.
- [19:15]
Jack Smith
And so we have a situation where we've got rid of people who know how to protect our national security, and we think that that's somehow not going to have an effect on our national security. You know, an example I can give you, Brian Driscoll. I don't know if you know who he is. He was the.
- [19:33]
Melissa Murray
He made a great video at the beginning to kind of rally the troops. That same from the outside.
- [19:38]
Jack Smith
Yeah. I mean, he's a folk hero in the FBI. If you were casting for a hero,
- [19:43]
Ayman Mohideen
that's what they look like.
- [19:44]
Congresswoman Debbie Dingell
Central cast.
- [19:46]
Jack Smith
And just for your viewers, this is a guy, career agent, you know, mob investigator, SWAT team, hostage rescue, served overseas, Medal of Valley or bravery medals, all these things. And an expert in counterintelligence. They got rid of him because he stood up for agents who were being targeted improperly. You can't tell me. You cannot tell me our country is as safe as it was when people like that are being let go and fired for no reason.
- [20:16]
Ayman Mohideen
That was former special counsel Jack Smith in an exclusive interview with Nicole yesterday, talking about the incalculable loss of career public servants within the Department of Justice and the FBI, thanks to none other to Donald Trump's campaign of retribution. Today, new reporting by the Associated Press reveals that the top FBI agent in Chicago has just been forced out of his job. And according to that Reporting, quote, Douglas DePodesta has served as Special Agent in Charge in Chicago, one of the FBI's largest offices, for nearly two years.
- [20:47]
Vaughn Hilliard
Years.
- [20:47]
Ayman Mohideen
And has been with the bureau since 2002. He told colleagues that his last day would be Monday. According to a message seen by the Associated Press, multiple people familiar with the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss a personal move, said that DePodesta had been pushed to retire. He writes in a message to his colleagues, quote, I have never backed down from a fight as long as it meant our personnel could continue serving the FBI's mission. Unfortunately, that has proved unpopular over time, and my departure is a consequence of that. After news of DePodesta's ouster came out, the FBI's Rapid Response Team posted this message online. Quote, it's simple. Anyone who is not on board with this FBI under The leadership of President Trump, which has achieved the lowest murder rate ever, is free to leave. We are back with Michael and Melissa. Michael, give me your thoughts on that post that I just read from this administration, from this FBI.
- [21:49]
Michael Feinberg
Well, the post is moronic. I'm going to explain why. Melissa will know this offhand, but murder, except in very rare circumstances, is not actually a federal crime. It's not the FBI's Ballywick. It's not something that its agents generally investigate at any point in their careers. To claim credit for what other agencies at the state and local levels are doing while destroying the federal agency that would normally support them is kind of the MO of this administration, I guess. So none of this should surprise us, but you know, Doug D. Podesta was one of the few special agents in charge who has not been selected by Cash Patel or Dan Bongino. And now Chris Ray, new deputy director. They made a real effort, assisted by Emil Beauvais and Todd Blanche, to clear out the stables and get rid of any special agent in charge that was retirement eligible and therefore able to push back against them without having to worry about forfeiting their pension. Every new special agent in charge that they have placed into those new vacancies has been someone who is not eligible to retire and therefore has a financial incentive to not stand up to them.
- [23:18]
Ayman Mohideen
I don't know if there was. Sorry, sorry. Go ahead, go ahead, finish your point. Sorry.
- [23:23]
Michael Feinberg
No, I don't know if Doug D. Podesta picked a particular fight. I'll note that the U.S. attorney's office in Chicago and the U.S. attorney Andrew Boutros, has repeatedly been called out by judges in that district for malfeasance and violation of policies regarding grand jury proceedings and sealing orders. It's entirely possible that a professional like Doug DePodesta would have pushed back against the amateur partisan hackery of his U.S. attorney counterpart. But it's also entirely possible that they just knew they couldn't bend him to their will, that he would have some integrity and that was enough.
- [24:06]
Ayman Mohideen
Melissa, let's reflect a little bit on Jack Smith's remarks there for a moment about our safety and why our safety is being put in jeopardy in order to fire a career civil servants that they may not see as sufficiently loyal to the, to the vision of Donald Trump, as was said in that tweet.
- [24:25]
Melissa Murray
Well, I just want to toggle back to something Michael just said because I actually had the exact same thought that Michael had. And again, it's speculation, but I remember just about a month ago there was reporting about the investigation of Reid Hoffman, who was alleged to have a nonprofit that was Chicago based, that may or may not have held, helped fund E. Jean Carroll's lawsuit against the president. And Andrew Boutros, who is the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois, was mentioned as possibly being someone who was allowing for that investigation to go through. If that were to happen, it would obviously require the cooperation of the FBI field office in Chicago, which would be the place where Doug D. Potesta would be the head of. So there may be a lot of different threads here, but I just wanted to tug on that one, just to sort of open up the possibility that maybe these things are all related. The point that Jack Smith makes relates exactly to this, though. There are a lot of things that U.S. attorney's offices are charged with prosecuting and investigating. They rely on the Federal Bureau of Investigation and their field offices to do this. When you are focused on retribution and these prosecutions of the president's political enemy, you're not doing rank and file criminal investigations. You're not addressing drug crime in these cities. You're not addressing mortgage fraud and things of that nature, things that actually have real consequences for Americans on the ground in their daily lives. And so we not only have this question about perhaps a compromised national security landscape, we have a very real domestic criminal problem if we aren't actually focused on those bread and butter criminal law issues and instead are focused on retribution.
- [26:05]
Ayman Mohideen
Melissa I wanted to play some more of what Jackson had said about the future of the Department of Justice. Take a listen to this.
- [26:13]
Jack Smith
Our country's been a lot of things at a lot of different times. And what generally happens is when something really bad happens, Watergate, for example, we respond and we get better as a result. I'm not saying the Justice Department has been perfect every day, but the people I worked with, I saw people trying to move things in the right direction. And I think it would be foolish to say we're not facing challenges right now, but when you face a challenge like we are today, you have a choice about the attitude you take towards it. Anyone can put anything on you, but you have a choice about the attitude you take. For me, and I think a lot of the people that I've worked with, our view is I want to behave now in a way that my kids will be proud.
- [26:56]
Melissa Murray
Yeah.
- [26:56]
Jack Smith
I want to act in a way that when I'm retired, I look back on this time and say I did things right.
- [27:03]
Ayman Mohideen
Melissa One of the questions that we ask ourselves so much about the damage Donald Trump is doing to our state, to our administration, to the rule of law, is whether or not we will be able to get better. Will these administrative agencies recover from what is happening to them in real time? Do you share that belief that the department will get better in response to the, to the challenges it is facing today and the changes it is undergoing today?
- [27:30]
Melissa Murray
I mean, I think this is probably the most profound crisis that the Department of Justice has faced probably in its lifetime. I mean, Watergate was a watershed moment. New laws were created to prevent what happened in Watergate from ever happening again. But right now, we're actually seeing the dismantling of the kinds of infrastructure that we need, not only for national security and law enforcement, just basic government functions. And that is because of what the administration is doing, but also because of the assist that it's getting from the United States Supreme Court in facilitating all of that. It's going to be really hard to unring those bells and put everything back in place and indeed to make it better. So right now I'm not even focused on improvement. I mean, we have a lot of work to begin to put back together the Humpty Dumpty that's fallen off the wall here.
- [28:20]
Ayman Mohideen
All right, Michael Feinberg and Melissa Murray, thank you to the both of you for spending time with me today. Really appreciate it. You can listen to the entirety of Nicole's conversation with Jack Smith on a special podcast, a special episode of the Best People Podcast. Just scan the QR code there on your screen or downlo wherever you get your podcasts after the break. Donald Trump's Great American State Fair is falling apart. Literally. That story is next.
- [28:51]
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- [29:22]
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- [29:53]
Ayman Mohideen
He loves it freezing, she loves it hot. The pod by eight Sleep ends the argument for good with independent temperature zones that keep both of you sleeping deeper. Try it@8sleep.com Foreign we are more than a week into Donald Trump's self aggrandizing 250th Great American Fair and it is safe to say things are not going very well for him. From the sparse attendance, to put it generously, to the many canceled events, today's delayed opening due to the heat, and the fair breaking down literally. New footage from the Daily Beast captures a portion of the event stage collapsing during rehearsals for tomorrow's performance. Spokesperson for Freedom 250 says that everyone is safe and that additional safeguards have been put in place. That is on top of Trump's triumphal ark, oozing on unidentified yellow substance. Not sure exactly what that is. As Trump's fare crumbles before Independence Day has even begun, we are learning more about what that decaying facade is masking. A new congressional report details how the Trump team has potentially engaged in criminal fraud in order to hijack what was supposed to be a nonpartisan celebration of America. Well, the report, authored by Democratic congressional staff, is titled From Vanity to Insanity how the White House Cheated the American People out of their 250th birthday. Here is some of what that report says. Quote Under President Donald Trump, this anniversary has been hijacked and perverted into a hotbed of corruption and self enrichment. This interim report documents how the machinery built for a national commemoration was converted deliberately and over a period of months into an apparatus for raising and spending money in service of the President's ego, political ideology and pet projects. The White House first attempted to bend America 250 to its purposes. When America 250 would not yield, the White House created a replacement, Freedom 250 LLC, a shadow organization capable of infiltrating the celebrations of and injecting America's 250th with Trump's extreme partisan agenda, the new entity could exploit the credibility and donor relationships of a beloved public charity while operating outside the transparency and accountability requirements Congress wrote. The authors of the report noted that the organization may have broken the law in order to change the nature of the event. They add this Freedom250 may have conducted wire fraud by luring unsuspecting donors who intended to support the congressionally chartered foundation and giving them Freedom 250 bank information. Instead, presidential access was sold to those willing to pay for it. A spokesperson for Freedom250 called the claims the report in the, in the report, quote, categorically false and a, quote, partisan smear. I want to bring into this conversation our political panel, political analyst and host of the Bulwark podcast, Tim Miller is here. Also joining us, host of Politics Nation and president of the National Action Network, Reverend Al Sharpton. But let's start with a member of the committee that actually released that report, Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell of Michigan. Congresswoman, it's great to have you with us. This report is actually quite shocking. I don't think many Americans saw this. You know, there's not been a lot of reporting in the lead up to this that I've seen. Walk us through what you found and what you've concluded.
- [33:22]
Congresswoman Debbie Dingell
Well, what the staff did that did the work in this and the committee found. There are two committees. In 2016, Congress passed the America 250th Committee, which was a bipartisan effort so that all of us can celebrate this. It is a very important and significant date. When the President returned and became president again, he tried to fire four people that were part of that commission. He didn't succeed. And then set up what is also known as Freedom250, a separate committee, but they set up the funding of it through the National park foundation, which is a well established foundation that has worked hard to build its own credibility and support the public parks over the years. And in addition, Congress had appropriated 150 million for the America 250 Commission. And in the end, keeping this long report short, Instead of getting 150, that commission got 25 million. And the other 125 has gone other places we don't know how the money is being spent. There are donors that thought they were giving to a bipartisan effort that ended up giving to Freedom250. And there are many other stories of what's happened in Washington and you've been showing some of it on this week.
- [34:48]
Ayman Mohideen
Yeah, you mentioned the donors in all this. And I want to kind of hone in on that just for a moment because I want to read a section about potentially defrauding those donors. In the report. It says, quote, donors who intended to donate to America 250 were instead given wire instructions with Freedom 250's banking information so that contributions would instead flow to Freedom 250. A gift solicited in the name of the nation's nonpartisan birthday commission could thus be redirected without the donor's knowledge by an entity created to serve the President's priorities. If true, such actions could constitute violations of several laws ranging from potential wire fraud and charitable solutions solicitation fraud under federal law, to charitable solicitation violations under the laws of the District of Columbia, where Freedom 250 is registered and operates as an LLC. Do you intend on investigating this? Have you, do you know, if you've speak, spoken to or reached out to any law enforcement agencies who might have oversight into or jurisdiction into where these laws may have been broken, like D.C. for example.
- [35:56]
Congresswoman Debbie Dingell
So let's be very candid here. Jared Huffman, who's the ranking member, is leading the effort here. And we know that based on what has happened, it would likely be the Justice Department that would have responsibility over it. And I suspect we would not see action out of this Justice Department right now. We have a November election. Elections have consequences. And I think that you will see oversight of many issues if and when the Democrats do win the majority, which I believe we will in November.
- [36:31]
Ayman Mohideen
Tim, this section from the introduction almost feels like a summary of the way the Trump administration operates writ large. Quote, licensing protocols let Freedom 250 brand deeply racist merchandise under the government's banner. An organization that was once responsible for planning events surrounding the January 6th insurrection has now been contracted for America's 250th celebrations. Taxpayer dollars were funneled to the president's preferred contractors, Americans. Private personal information has been harvested by Trump's allies for political purposes. And so my question to you is, what does it say about how things stand in this country that an organizers or the organizers of the violent January 6th insurrection on our Capitol are now the ones organizing this nation's 250th celebration?
- [37:18]
Tim Miller
Yeah, it says the country's a racket right now. And it's run no different from any type of banana republic that's run by a corrupt oligarchy at the top. Usually those types of governments combine rather corruption with comic incompetence. And that's what we're seeing on the National Mall. You know, you just can go back and watch the archive video or may some of my co panels were there at the, at the 200th anniversary 50 years ago. And you know, was it was not at a time without political controversy in the country in 1976. You're coming off of Vietnam, coming off of Watergate. But yet it was a celebration for everybody, no matter what their party was, no matter what their religion was, to, you know, come and, and honor the people that had served America and the traditions of America that we're trying to aspire to. And like, that's not what this is. This is just like partisan hackery, you know, combined with, with the Trump Casino grift. That's all that's left here. And it's no wonder that not many people want to attend that.
- [38:25]
Ayman Mohideen
And there is something a little bit more dangerous to this. Rev. The report also highlights the connection between white nationalists and this event and I'm going to read a part of it. It said, quote, the White House set out to refashion the semiquincentennial into a mouthpiece for those who want to break down the firewall between church and state and enshrine their preferred kind of Christianity as the de facto national religion. Their agenda fuses Christian white supremacist identity with history revisionism. Insisting that the nation's founding, its laws and our fundamental rights are rooted in the Christian Bible. The White House pared its extreme religious doctrine with a sustained effort to erase from public memory the parts of American history the President would rather forget, including slavery. Talk to us about that.
- [39:11]
Lemonade Pet Insurance Ad Voice
Rev.
- [39:12]
Ayman Mohideen
How emboldened they have become under the Trump administration to try and exclude that part of our history.
- [39:19]
Reverend Al Sharpton
Well, they become emboldened because they have a president that will back them up and give them all the support they need. To in fact, act as if being bigoted, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, or in many cases misogynist is being patriotic. The fact of the matter is that the stated goals July 4, 1776 talked about freedom of religion, talked about why they were breaking with the monarchy, though they did not live up to many of those goals then. The celebration of this country is that there never was a time we were not stopping and moving toward fulfilling it. So even though my people were slaves in 1776 and then face segregation and then faced a second class citizenship, people kept fighting black and white the way we got the right to vote. We eventually elect a black president and reelected that black and a black woman vice president. So the celebration is the evolution of America around stated goals. This administration has been the one to declare war on the progress made in terms of making this country, as Dr. King said, live up to the true meaning of his creed. And there being grifters at the same time is not enough just to be a supremacist and being a distorter, you also have to be A hustler at the same time.
- [40:52]
Ayman Mohideen
Rev. TIM Please stick around. Congresswoman DEBBIE Dingell, thank you so much. And I really appreciate the work on this report that we were able to bring to our viewers. Really appreciate it. We'll be right back after a quick break. We are back with Tim and Reverend Al Sharpton. Tim, the report says that the government employees were pressured into wearing merchandise promoting the event. And I want to read a little bit more from that report. It reads in part, quote, national Park Service employees with no official affiliation to Freedom250 have been seen wearing Freedom250 lapel pins. Though not by choice, the US Department of Interior urge employees to wear the pins on their uniform and threaten disciplinary action. To those who refused, Anonymous employees have taken to calling their Vichy pin reflecting an uncomfortable reality that they feel compelled to display a political symbol against their own beliefs. Only Donald Trump could put on a 250 celebration that causes people to invoke Vichy France.
- [41:53]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I liked what the Rev said before the break. You have to add the Trump hustle and everything. Like that's this all is. And it is in line with all of his businesses, many of which were scams. And you know, this particular anecdote is, is kind of reminiscent of Trump trying to cheat these government employees, people who are serving the country, serving all of us, like they're his hotel staff. You know, you gotta wear the flare that the president wants you to wear. And like that's part of the Trump experience. Just like the falling down chandelier is and the broken caulk or the falling down lights, this is what we're getting from him. Him, he's trying to enrich himself and, and our national celebration turns into a total scam and a hustle.
- [42:39]
Ayman Mohideen
Rev, there was a recent poll that found that 77% of Americans believe that the founders will be disappointed by how America has turned out. How are you feeling going into this July 4th?
- [42:50]
Reverend Al Sharpton
I feel that we are one should celebrate the progress made and that we ought to be energized to stop those that are trying to bring us back to some of the progress that was made. When we look at the fact that you had the Voting Rights act just about nullified by this Supreme Court, many of whom were nominated by Donald Trump. When you look at what they have done to dei, you're looking at the undoing of the Civil rights act of 64, you're looking at the undoing act of 65, you're looking at, at women's rights, you're looking at those that have tried to make freedom of religion mean that this is a Christian nation. I'm a Baptist preacher, but freedom of religion is freedom of religion. I think they'd be the founding fathers. I don't know if they'd be disappointing because some of them had some, in my opinion, questionable positions. But I think they could. They would all say this is not what we projected. I think what is so brazen about this is the shamelessness. They don't even try to hide the grip or the fact that they are, in fact bigoted. They in fact use it as a badge of honor. When you take January 6th people and elevate them, how can you say that we are the patriots when you reward those that would defile the capital of this nation and want to stop a duly certified election from being certified?
- [44:24]
Ayman Mohideen
But yeah, well said. Reverend Al Sharpton. Sharpton, Tim Miller, thank you to the both of you. Really appreciate you joining us on this holiday weekend. A quick break for us and we'll be right back. The first American pope gave his first major address to his home country today. In a speech given live from the Vatican to the National Constitution center in Philadelphia, Pope Leo XIV delivered another implicit rebuke of Donald Trump and called on America to live up to its founding principles. Take a listen.
- [45:00]
Jack Smith
In these past 250 years for so many peoples throughout the world, it was the firm resolve to achieve the noble vision of the nation's founders that made America a byword for freedom. As the country opened its doors to successive ways of immigrants, enabling them and their children to play their part in shaping the future of the nation. This historic anniversary presents us with the opportunity to reflect once again on the nation's founding principles in the hope that America will remain ever true to the dream that has earned it, the title of land of the free and home of the brave.
- [45:46]
Ayman Mohideen
And tomorrow, Pope Leo will mark America's 250th anniversary by visiting a major Mediterranean migration point of arrival in Italy. And I'm going to keep an eye on that coming up for us. A top military official ousted by Donald Trump warns that the military is being used for political purposes. We're going to have that story and much more after a quick break.
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Ayman Mohideen
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