← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Trump chooses Jay Clayton for DNI”
00:43:16
June 11, 2026; 4pm: Nicolle Wallace and friends discuss the breaking news that Trump is nominating U.S. Attorney Jay Clayton to head DNI after Trump’s initial pick – housing chief Bill Pulte – was criticized for his lack of experience for the job.
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- [00:00]
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Sarah Matthews
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Podcast Host
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Lead Host / Moderator
Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. Donald Trump blinked again. In another sign of his waning political influence on a usually sycophantic political party, Donald Trump swapped his craziest election denier for a slightly more socially acceptable election denier. Meet the man Donald Trump is now nominating to lead all 18 of the nation's intelligence agencies.
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Mike Schmidt
On the integrity side, we're doing an absolutely terrible job and the American people are right to question it.
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Lead Host / Moderator
California's election law allows ballots 30 days by election Day to be counted and permit same day registration. That means tabulation typically continues for weeks. And that doesn't sound like fraud. You can argue whether the law makes sense, but that doesn't sound like a fraudulent situation.
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Mike Schmidt
No, there's a great phrase, opportunity for
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John Heilman
fraud,
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Lead Host / Moderator
a little turn of phrase. We'll repeat it here for as long as we have to. There is no evidence of fraud in the 2020 election. There is no evidence of fraud in the California primary, as U.S. attorney Jay Clayton was suggesting there. Jay Clayton made those comments just three days before Donald Trump officially appointed him to be the nation's Director of National Intelligence. It is very possible that his appearance on CNBC that we just showed you, in which he indulges Donald Trump's baseless concerns about the integrity of our voting systems, was an on air audition for the job. That's how they usually go. Because the last Dni Tulsi Gabbard put Trump's quest to find voter fraud where there Isn't any voter fraud front and center. In her effort to keep her job, she was seen at the FBI raid of an elections office in Fulton County, Georgia, which she says she did at the behest of Donald Trump. Clayton ran the securities and Exchange Commission during Donald Trump's first term. He's now the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Manhattan, where he appears to have done little, really nothing that we know about to stem the exodus or the turmoil or to be any sort of bulwark against Donald Trump's feverish politicization of the Department of Justice. A lawsuit by fire prosecutor Maureen Comey, the daughter of Trump critic and former director of the FBI, Jim Comey, alleges that when she was fired, Clayton told her this quote. All I can say is it came from Washington. Can't tell you anything else, end quote. It's not clear yet what his nomination means for the poor little housing guy. Trump's housing chief, Bill Pulte, who was set to get this job, he was going to be the acting Director of National Intelligence, and it's not clear now whether he'll ever step into that role at all. New York Times is reporting this, quote. Trump had been under pressure to move on from his decision to appoint Bill Pulte. The appointment of Pulte derailed the congressional reauthorization of one of the government's most powerful surveillance authorities. But the announcement of Mr. Clayton to be nominated for Senate confirmation seemed unlikely to immediately solve Trump's problems with Congress. That breaking news that Donald Trump has selected federal prosecutor who has embraced his election fraud conspiracies to lead the intelligence community is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Former CIA director and our senior national security and intelligence analyst John Brennan's. Also joining us, New York Times investigative reporter Mike Schmidt. And Puck News senior political columnist national affairs analyst John Heilman is back with us. Heilman, I'll start with you on the first piece of this, which is the political reality. Trump blinking and not being able to push through his most crazy people.
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John Heilman
Happy to discuss this, but I was told we were going to be talking about the Knicks.
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Lead Host / Moderator
I'm so sorry. We had some breaking news to deal with. You can talk about the Knicks. The Knicks are glorious.
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John Heilman
Well, let me just. Let me just. Here's how I'll do it.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Okay.
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John Heilman
It'll loop back, I promise.
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Lead Host / Moderator
This will you went from the sublime to the ludicrous. And now you're taking us back to the sublime.
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John Heilman
The stakes of the game last night were more Than the game. They were more than the NBA Finals. They were about whether Donald Trump would ruin, like, one of the few things that we still have that's not been ruined. Right. Sports. And at halftime, all I could think
- [05:25]
Lead Host / Moderator
was Trump broke the Knicks.
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John Heilman
Trump curse has destroyed the Knicks. New York and its belief in the Knicks. And really, we worried about the meaning of sports. I'm sitting there thinking, this is what I'm gonna have to talk about now, how the Trump jinx blew it. All right? And then first we had Wu Tang Clan at halftime, and I'm always like, wu Tang's here. They will reverse the curse. And then the Knicks come out and do what they did. Amazing, amazing, amazing. And now Trump has done the same thing to this show. It's like, we were gonna get to talk about the Knicks, and now we gotta talk about this. So it's like, I will trade that, you know, the Knicks win. I'll trade that for having to talk about this story. Yes, that's the lead of the story. To come back to the story, the lead of the story is Donald Trump caved again. He's caved in the face of Iran over and over and over again. Every time the threats of global annihilation, that he walks back on every front. Trump's political power and its diminution are the biggest story that we have going right now. And this is another example of a thing where, you know, he picked the guy he really wanted in Bill Pulte, and then realized that it was pretty unlikely that he was ever gonna be able to make that guy actually to make him dni. There was too much pushback. There were too many Republicans who were like, this is. This is a bridge too far. And so he's picked a more acceptable face. I will just say that I think you can't be a member in good standing in the Republican Party now without at least paying lip service to or not challenging Donald Trump's election denialism. And so I'm not letting Jay Clayton off the hook for that, but I'm just saying, like, there's no one who's gonna get appointed to any job in Donald Trump's cabinet, acting or permanent, who doesn't, at a minimum, sort of tolerate the election denialism, and preferably from Donald Trump's point of view, embrace it and endorse it. In this case, you know, as you said, we've got someone who is a milder, certainly someone who doesn't believe in election, doesn't believe in the conspiracy theories. This person is perfectly sane, but is willing to say what he needs to say in order to get another and more elevated job in this administration than he's had before. He had the previous one at the SEC. He's the U.S. attorney here, a selection of Donald Trump. He's getting an upgrade. And for that he was willing to trade just a little bit of his integrity and his soul. On the question of elections.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Well, I'll take a, a different tack on this, Director Brennan. I actually think these are the most dangerous people, the ones who actually believe the lie about fraud or at least searching for something they think is there. The people like Kevin Warsh and Todd Blanche and Jay Clayton who are parroting the lie for ambition are to me, the most dangerous and sinister.
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Brendan Ballou
Well, first of all, like John, I've been waiting since 1973 for the Knicks to win the NBA final. So that is something I think we should focus. But, but clearly he, Jay Clayton is much better credentialed than Bill Pulte, you know, as being SEC chairman and with the U.S. attorney. And he has that. And I also, I agree with John that I guess Jay Clayton wanted a job like this because he said what was minimally acceptable. This, you know, quote about there's opportunity for fraud when you have the California election results taking so long. But, you know, it really, I always question who Donald Trump is selecting because obviously he believes that they're going to do his bidd. And I'd like to think that Jay Clayton is going to have the backbone, the integrity not to politicize the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and to stand up to Trump. But it seems as though he wants this job. He's, he's been nominated now and although he has had a good reputation in the past, he does have leadership experience and skills. He must have had some exposure to intelligence in his previous roles. And some of the Democrats in Congress speak highly of his, you know, past management experience and leadership skills. I do think there are some serious questions about whether or not Donald Trump is going to be expecting from him what he wanted from Tulsi Gabbard and what he is what he wanted from Bill Pulte and whether or not Jay Clayton is going to have the ability and the willingness and the integrity to stand up and say, no, I'm not going to politicize this very critical role. Whether, whether it's dealing with election fraud or other issues that are at the forefront, I think, of our national security.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Mike, I'll afford you the same space to weigh in about the Knicks. But on Jay Clayton, he took over the office that had the most turmoil. The earliest lifelong conservative, Danielle Sassoon, fled the office for cause over this dismissal of the Eric Adams prosecution. And he never weighed in as to whether or not he stood with highly respected, extremely conservative prosecutors like Danielle Sassoon and her deputies who left that office. He sort of fell in line with Emil Bove and Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi. That's who's taking over. So, I mean, hope springs eternal. I hope what director is saying is comes to pass for the nation's national security. But to be a person in good standing is to be a person who repeats the lie about fraud.
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Mike Schmidt
The interesting thing about Clayton's time at the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan is that they actually didn't bring a lot of cases. There's been a sort of downtick. If you talk to folks in the white collar bar in the city, that basically that this office, which was so robust, it was the most important office in the country, has indicted fewer people and moved forward with fewer cases. And it's an issue that has gone on in the entire Justice Department and raised larger questions about, okay, so because the department has been so hollowed out, is it less able to bring cases and enforce the law, or is the Trump Justice Department just choosing not to, you know, go after as many federal crimes as previous administrations? The other thing about the Pulte move here today is that you don't get to see it every day, and it doesn't happen even that much. But today's a day where you get to see where the line is for Republicans. And Trump, he's like, okay, so the line for them was that Bill Pulte, someone who had no national security experience, couldn't be in charge of the intelligence community. It's just a fact. And it just gives us a sense of like, okay, here are where the different boundaries are in this story, where we're constantly struggling to figure out where those lines are. And today it's that Jay Clayton can run the intelligence community, but Bill Pulte, with no experience, can't. And that's the state of the Trump presidency.
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Lead Host / Moderator
It's such a good point, because the guy with the brain worms, Kennedy, Hegseth, are on the other side of the line, and Pulte and Matt Gaetz are on the wrong side of the line.
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John Heilman
Well, I mean, some of those things, I think, have to do with time,
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Lead Host / Moderator
timing and political power.
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John Heilman
Yeah, timing and political power. I mean, I continue to believe to this day that if Donald Trump had pushed on Matt Gates, he could have probably got Matt Gates through because that moment every Republican was just giving Trump whatever.
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Lead Host / Moderator
I totally agree.
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John Heilman
And so like the timing of you can get through Pete Hegseth, I'm not sure Pete Hegseth would get it confirmed today. Maybe Bill Pulte would have gotten confirmed back at the beginning of the administration. It's just, you know, it's, it's dynamic. It's very, it's very dynamic. And there's no question it's dynamic in one direction. It's like it's, you know, Trump's, Trump's political power was at was basically within the on the Hill for sure and more broadly throughout the Republican Party and even to some extent of Democrats who are afraid of him for the first six months. As you know, we saw, we talked about this yesterday. One of the stories of that Maggie Haberman Jonathan Swan story was the Epstein story arrived in the summer. And pretty much from that moment to now, Trump has been in a slow and steady decline, both with his certainly with his political power broadly in the country, but even within the party. Now he again, there's counterexamples of that. We've seen the fact that when it comes to primary elections, Donald Trump can still exercise pretty much an iron grip over the Republican Party. But what you're seeing now is the place where the Congress was totally supine before. It's gotten just a little bit less supine over time in some cases as a reaction to what he's done in those same primaries. But there's, you know, that's just the window for the Matt Gaetz's and put him aside for a second. But the Pete Hegses and the Bill Pulte's, those are people who there's no question he doesn't get P Hex not going to wouldn't have gotten Tom Tillis vote today, for instance, and he wouldn't have gotten Bill Cassidy. Bill Cassidy wouldn't have given his vote to RFK Jr today. And that's partly out of spite in Cassidy's case because Trump went after him, but also partly because the reality is that Trump's power base is shrinking and his power is his power, not just the power base is shrinking, but also his degree of muscular authority right now is at a low eb. And as long as the inflation numbers keep going up regardless of what he says about them, as long as the prices keep going up and we get closer to the midterms and Trump is doing nothing to help Republicans, his power is going to continue to go down every single day.
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Lead Host / Moderator
I want to bring back into focus what Pulte was expected to do for you, Director Brennan. This is Donald Trump just saying out loud what he want Pulte to do as acting dni.
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Bill Pulte
It's an acting position. It's not a permanent. He's not going to be permanent because, you know, I don't think he'd want to be permanent, but he's a very smart guy, and he may find out some things about the rigged elections, et cetera, et cetera. I think he'd like to do it. I'd like to. I think he wants to do it very much. Got a lot of energy, but he'll be very good. Again, it's not a permanent position we're looking at. We're interviewing people right now, but it's somebody just to take it over for a little while.
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Lead Host / Moderator
First of all, everybody wants to be permanent. There are no people that get acting jobs that just want the acting part. They all want to go on and be permanent. But I can't imagine that Donald Trump stopped wanting the thing that he wanted Pulte to do. What is your sense? I mean, it seems that Mr. Clayton will be tested early and on this big question of whatever it was that Pulte was going to get in there and do for Trump.
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Brendan Ballou
Yeah, well, I had no doubt that Bill Pulte was going to do anything and everything that. That Donald Trump wanted to do when it came to trying to, you know, pursue any lead that could give them a scintilla of evidence of election fraud and just, you know, ravage the office of the dni, you know, the files and other types of things, and misrepresent the facts. Now, picking up Mike's point, if. If Jay Clayton was, you know, relatively inactive in New York in terms of bringing cases, maybe he felt as though inaction, safer place than action. And so I. I think with his law background and his experience, I think he certainly will be much more, I think, less reckless than a Bill Pulte will be. And the question is whether he can stave off any type of pressure that he feels from the White House to actually give up the goods that they want on this. Because, like you, I do not believe Donald Trump is going to relent at all as far as continuing to pursue this, you know, these arguments that the elections are rigged whenever anybody that he doesn't like is elected. But again, I think Jay Clayton's background, experience tells us that he's not going to be a Bill Pult. He's not going to be a pit bull that goes in there. He may, in fact try to give down from something. And again, I'm just hoping that he's not going to again politicize the office and to further alienate, I think, a already demoralized workforce, not just in the odni, but also throughout the intelligence community.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Director John Brennan, I'm sorry I deprived you of your next moment. Hopefully we'll all be back together.
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John Heilman
We got it in there. It's all right.
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Lead Host / Moderator
News intervened. Director Brennan, thank you for starting us off. When we come back, the 11th hour legal challenge to the UFC cage. Are they really called cage fights? Cage fight on the south lot at the White House is now in front of a judge. His ruling could come at any minute. We'll talk to the lawyer who brought about that suit next. Plus, a new ad campaign seeks to remind the American people this summer ahead of the midterms, who is to blame for higher prices at the gas pump in the grocery store and everywhere else, and why Donald Trump is doing absolutely nothing about that economic despair. We'll talk with a member of the group responsible for getting this message in front of as many Americans as possible. And later in the broadcast, Todd Blanch wants to tell us that the slush fund for the Insurrectionist is dead. While Trump wants his supporters to believe they're still going to get some money, new reporting sheds light on the backroom discussions to keep it very much alive. All those stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
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Podcast Host
Thursday, June 25th. Join Rachel Maddow, Ally Velshi and Jen Psaki in Philadelphia for a dynamic evening. Ms. Now live presents we the People America 250. Get tickets at Ms. Now./America 250 today.
- [19:03]
Lead Host / Moderator
Donald Trump might not want to break out his birthday party hats just yet after an emergency lawsuit was filed to keep his UFC cage match slash birthday party from going forward on Sunday. Deadline White House's legal blogger Jordan Rubin writes this about the lawsuit. Quote, a volcano of corruption is what plaintiffs suing to stop this weekend's UFC fights at the White House called the planned event, telling a judge that President Donald Trump and his allies are poised to profit. Quote from the first private for profit sporting event ever held on White House grounds. The event will feature million dollar VIP packages, brand placement opportunities adjacent to the Lincoln Memorial and an exclusive broadcast on the president's favorite streaming service. Plaintiffs told the judge such a volcano of corruption, if allowed to go forward, will mark an inflection point in American history. The images it Generates will one day appear in the history books and not in the chapters about times remembered fondly. We could hear from the judge on that anytime. I want to bring in Brendan Ballou. He is the founder of the Public Integrity Project, as well as a former special counsel in the Justice Department. He represents the plaintiffs in the UFC lawsuit. Mike and John are still with us. Brendan, take me through the lawsuit. And what happens if the judge rules in your favor?
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Brendan Ballou
Yeah, so the basic issue here is this is not a lawsuit about a fight. It is a lawsuit about corruption. Right now, what's happening is UFC and its parent company, TKO, are selling what are called sponsorship packages for 1 million to $1.5 million per person. Plus they're getting exclusive licensing for showing the title card to Paramount, which is closely allied to the president, and. And showing ads at the White House lawn and potentially even at the Lincoln Memorial. So we're already seeing ads, for instance, for Monster Energy Drink. We're expecting ads for Crypto.com and others. All of this is a way for the UFC and for Donald Trump, who's invested in that company, to make a private profit from public property. That is the fundamental problem here. So that's why we've sued. In terms of what could happen here, you know, Judge, this is before Judge Mehta. He is going to rule based on the briefings, and it's either that the fight could get enjoined, or at the very least, if he finds that the plaintiffs have standing, that the sort of most corrupt aspects of this could be reduced. So, for instance, the walkout that's scheduled at the Lincoln Memorial for the UFC could potentially be canceled or moved.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Mike, what's interesting about the UFC birthday party slash cage match is that about a quarter of Trump's base is into it. The question was asked by Reuters, is it appropriate for Trump to hold the UFC match? Just 16% of respondents said yes. Even Trump's worst poll, he comes in around 34%. So that's not a third of Trump's existing base that thinks it's appropriate for Donald Trump to have erected this monstrosity on the White House lawn and decided to host this UFC fight there.
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Mike Schmidt
Look, I don't think that most Americans would have a problem with a professional sport having an event on the South Lawn of the White House. Like, at the end of the day, it's, you know, we all celebrate sports together. We all sort of look. Look to them as a way of unifying each other and such. I think what. What changes people's views about it is that if it's done for corruption and if it's done for reasons that are enriching the president or people around the president, and they're using the office of the presidency to do that. Like if Major League Baseball had a game on the South Lawn of the White House, like, in the same way that they have a game at the Field of Dreams Field in Iowa once a year, I'm not sure that that's that big a deal. But the problem with what's happened here is that it gets locked in with everything else that Trump has done. And there is a sustained body of evidence and a narrative about how Trump has used the office to enrich himself, and people around him have done that. So when they have an event like this on the South Lawn of the White House, the average person looks at it and says, okay, is this truly a celebration of American sport, of the country, of people coming together to watch an event, or is it a way to make money? And there's a reason ethics experts will tell you that people in power should not engage in anything where it looks like they're making money, because it raises larger questions about what they're doing in other areas. Can we trust what an elected official is doing if they are, you know, if there are accusations that they are making money at the time? So people look at this and they say, okay, what's really going on here? And I think that's probably one of the reasons that there's skepticism about it.
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Lead Host / Moderator
It's an extraordinary number, though, Heilman. I mean, it is around the approval rating for Donald Trump's performance on the economy. Actually, that's five points lower. That's 9%.
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John Heilman
Well, I'll say a few things about this, one of which is, I think when you see those pictures, it's another sign to a lot of Americans that entrepreneur's not focused on them and their issues. It's like when you see that thing being that this is what he's doing
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Lead Host / Moderator
right now, because this is all that he's doing, right?
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John Heilman
He's not bringing. He's not bringing up, but it's just a vivid symbol. It's like. It's like tearing down the White House ballroom. There's.
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Mike Schmidt
It's.
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John Heilman
There are people who object to that because they love the White House. And they. Look at that. Looks like Six Flags. It's like, it's tacky as hell, but that's. It's kind of like, what's the president doing? He's planning a cage match. He's tearing down the. There Used to be a Rose Garden there, by the way.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Incredible.
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John Heilman
You know, it's just absolutely incredible. But he's tearing down the East Wing. He's trying to build the arc to Trump. It's just all these things that have nothing to do with what voters actually care about, which is like, why are my prices going so high? And why is like, he just seems unfocused on all of these things that are really about spectacle and self aggrandizement. Yeah. Self enrichment, too. But it's just sort of like he's distracted, not paying attention to my business. I also think that there's an element of this which is kind of like the thing. We're in this great moment. I want to come back to the Knicks. We're in this great moment where the glory of. As we were saying before, part of the reason that sports is so powerful is that it's a thing that's not infected by politics. This thing where politics, politics and sports always get commingled. But it's still the case that you can go to a Knicks game and you'll be rooting for the Knicks or for the spurs, and you don't know. The guy next to you could be maga. The guy next to you could be
- [25:39]
Lead Host / Moderator
super woke for three hours. Nobody cares.
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John Heilman
Yeah. You're in a Mets game and you're rooting for the Mets and no one's asking each other, hey, are you on team Blue or you're on Team Red? It's like this safe space where you can go and just care about a different tribe. Not like the political ideological people, like, sick of having politics, in fact, absolutely everything. And Trump has done a lot of that. And this is just another like, oh, really? I got like, even if you like this particular brand of sport, you're kind of like, why does Donald Trump have to have his nose in this? Why does it have to be Trumpified? Why does UFC have to be. He goes to these matches and I know he gets applause, but I think for most Americans, they look at it and go, it's again, it's like, why is Donald Trump sticking his nose in this particular thing? And then the third thing I'll say very quickly is that the thing that we, that I sport, as Mike said just now quoting Mitt Romney at sport must worry about right now, is the sense that, like, financialization of it is taking over. And in between the betting.
- [26:34]
Lead Host / Moderator
Yeah.
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John Heilman
And the, just the, as you listed at the beginning of what this is about, it's like, here's the platinum sponsor and here's the this, and here's the that, and here's the gold plated this and here's the VIP access. Here's this package, that package. It's like, it's the one thing about the Knicks that bums out real Knicks fans is like nobody in the city can afford to go to a Knicks finals game or any of these playoff games. There are many thousands of dollars to get even a seat up in the Raptors. No one can afford to go to the World cup, which is a thing that people were really looking forward to. And now you look out, it's 6,000, it's 18,000, $12,000 for a seat way up in the nosebleed section to go to a World cup match. Why are people not excited about the World Cup? Feels like it's overpriced. And this is another thing where it's like, it's just the melding of sport and just financializing. It's all about, you know, profit companies and rich people and all that stuff. It just makes people a little bit nauseous, I think.
- [27:22]
Lead Host / Moderator
I mean, Brendan, when do you expect a decision and what do you make of their arguments? They were all about the fighters already dropping weight to make their way ins.
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Brendan Ballou
Yeah. So the decision could come out any minute, could come out tonight, come out, could come out tomorrow. I think a number of their arguments were just exceptionally weak. You know, you alluded to one of them, which is saying that they are worried about the harm to the fight fighters if this fight were delayed, given that they're cutting weight and they might have to cut weight indefinitely. I don't think that's the case. If they reschedule the fight, they can just, you know, go back to normal living and then cut weight when you get closer to the fight. You know, I think it's very hard for the government to argue that it's complying with the law here. And in fact, it reversed itself a couple times on what it was doing specifically at the Lincoln Memorial. So this all comes down to a fight overstanding. Whether the plaintiffs are the kind of people who can bring suit here, I will just say, you know, also, they, at the risk of being a little repetitive, this isn't a fight over mma. In fact, I want to shout out my colleague, Sam Ward Packard, who really was the architect of this case. He's a huge MMA fan. But to go back to these earlier points, this is such a corruption of the sport when you have such obvious profiteering from public property for an event like this.
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Lead Host / Moderator
Yeah. All Right, everyone stick around. After the break, we'll get to Mike's blockbuster new reporting on a major UFC star and his return to the sport. Why? It should come as no surprise that Donald Trump is associated with this organization right now. Stay with us for that.
- [28:57]
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John Heilman
At this pivotal time, you are helping yourselves.
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Lead Host / Moderator
You are helping your country.
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- [29:56]
John Heilman
Today
- [29:59]
Lead Host / Moderator
we're back with Brendan, Mike and John. Mike has seen me try to become slightly more fluent in UFC stuff and as I've started to learn a little bit about it, it's not the most wholesome sports league in the world. You have a story on that front, Mike, tell us about it.
- [30:19]
Mike Schmidt
I have a story about how Conor McGregor, who is the face of the UFC, its most well known fighter basically in 2021, broke his leg and in the aftermath of that started to take performance enhancing drugs as he recovered from it. But what was significant about that is that McGregor came out of a testing bull, essentially was no longer subject to testing by the UFC when he did that. And why that's significant is because it's an issue that cuts to the questions of the integrity of the sport. The UFC is a very large business. It has a big deal with Paramount. It obviously has very close ties with the Trump administration. It's also a sport that's supposed to be based on integrity and that all fighters adhere to the same rules and, you know, can't use, can't cheat in any way and can't use performance enhancing drugs. And in the case of Conor McGregor, their biggest star, the story that we tell basically raises the question about how is it that someone who's such a big star can essentially come out of its program, that all of its Fighters are subject to and then go back into that pool some years later and try to fight again. And what does that mean to the larger question of whether there is a level playing field in the sport? And McGregor is set to return next month to fight for the first time. He won't be fighting at the White House, but he'll be fighting at a pay per view next month. He's someone that has been to the Oval Office with Trump. He's someone that has supported Trump. And obviously, you know, Dana White was a really important person in helping Trump with his campaigns and such. And the alliance, there is a unique alliance to the point that we were making earlier about the erection of the octagon on the south Lawn of the White House. There is no greater scene or example of ties between a sport and the federal government than we see there.
- [32:28]
Lead Host / Moderator
And, you know, I don't know enough to know if this is a sport as associated with the manosphere, but Joe Rogan seems to be someone who crosses into all these worlds. You're talking about Mike. And he publicly mused about Conor McGregor cheating and being on performance enhancing drugs. Was this like a known secret inside their world or was this a revelation
- [32:52]
Mike Schmidt
in the UFC world? There was a lot of speculation that McGregor had basically come out of this testing pool in order to use performance enhancing drugs. And the person who really identified that and publicly talked about it the most was Joe Rogan, who raised the idea of this loophole and basically said it looked to him that he thought that MacGregor was using drugs. And what our story says is that indeed MacGregor did use these substances when he was outside of the testing pool. And he did it with the support of the Dodgers team doctor. Basically, the Dodgers team doctor is a man named Neil Elatrache, who's the most well known physician in all sports. And he basically operated, oversaw the operation on McGregor's leg, and then after that, sent him to a specialist who prescribed McGregor with drugs. And then Ellatroche wrote a letter to drug testing officials saying that that MacGregor should be able to use those substances and not face a penalty for it. That effort fell apart. McGregor came out of the testing pool. He did use drugs, and he'll be returning for the first time since injuring that, that leg in 2021. He'll be fighting next month.
- [34:09]
Lead Host / Moderator
I mean, Halman, I guess my deep skepticism of the manosphere is only furthered by the idea that they're not only toxic, but also cheating.
- [34:19]
John Heilman
Well, first of all, I was going to say to Mike that you said this thing about how you're trying to get your head around UFC a little bit better, and that Mike was maybe helping you a little bit. I'm kind of like, Mike, what the hell?
- [34:30]
Lead Host / Moderator
I'm like, Mike, I have a witness to it.
- [34:32]
John Heilman
Nicole still needs a little more help with this because way off camera, and I want to say, I don't know the answer to this either. She was like, is it a cage? Is it a ring? Is it a stage? What are they? Where do they fight?
- [34:44]
Lead Host / Moderator
Do you say in the ring or do you say in the cage?
- [34:46]
John Heilman
Those are perfectly good questions. I don't know the answer to that. So I'm not. I'm not taking a potshot. I'm just sort of saying someone who knows a little bit more about this than either of us could be used for the purpose of enlightenment. I got to say, it is a. I think that all of us would do well to open up our minds to the possibility that a large number of athletes in professional sports that we think are clean are not necessarily clean. So it doesn't. To your point about the manosphere, the fact they cheat, there's a lot more cheating that goes on in sports, in both professional sports and in amateur athletics, than I think a lot of people want to admit. That's what I'll say.
- [35:29]
Lead Host / Moderator
I don't need to hear that today. I need. I need. I need to believe in something still. Mike, thank you for the reporting and for joining us to talk about it. Thank you to Brendan. Brendan, let me ask you to come back. Wave your arms and we'll get you right back on camera if you get a decision from the judge while we're still on the air in your lawsuit. John sticks around a little bit longer. After that, we will try to get to the bottom of whether it's a cage ring. After the break, a crop of brand new ads are going up in key states across the country. At the very same moment that those inflation numbers came out soaring, they're reminding voters that Trump's war of choice against Iran has led to those higher prices. One of the people behind that new campaign will be our next guest. Don't go anywhere. It is and always has been and probably always will be the economy. Stupid. And on that front, Donald Trump is getting dumber by the day. On the heels of yesterday's alarming inflation report, the Washington Post today reports this quote. Oil and gas executives have warned the White House that gasoline prices could surge in coming months as fuel inventories fall to critical lows, complicating The Trump administration's efforts to contain inflation that has already rattled American consumers. Between that and Donald Trump's tone deaf comments yesterday that he, quote, loves the inflation numbers, the campaign ads practically write themselves. Enter Home of the Brave, a political group that is putting that message and that reality into motion. They are out with a $15 million campaign called sticker Shock Summer, reminding Americans who is to blame when they are paying more for all of their summer needs and activities. These billboards are up. They're all across the country, as well as this ad. Watch.
- [37:41]
Podcast Host
Find out why you're paying more this summer@stickershocksummer.org.
- [37:50]
Lead Host / Moderator
I want to bring in Bulwark contributor Sarah Matthews. She's a spokesperson for Home of the Brave. She's also a former White House deputy press secretary during Donald Trump's first term as president. It's nice to see you, my friend. This ad campaign is brilliant.
- [38:03]
Sarah Matthews
No, thank you so much for having me on and thank you so much for letting me talk about this ad campaign that we're doing at Home of the Brave. Like you said, it's a $15 million ad campaign across the country, including both digital and billboards, to educate and mobilize the American people and show them that the price increases they're seeing are a direct result of Donald Trump's disastrous policies. Because, make no mistake, we were already dealing with an affordability crisis, but it has only been exacerbated by Trump's decisions to launch a war in Iran, this war of choice, or to impose these asinine tariffs that made absolutely no sense, because make no mistake, tariffs are attacks on the American people. And so now we're the ones dealing with the consequences. Poor policy choices. And so we want to make that clear to the American people that he is the one to blame and that we need to be holding him accountable because we've seen so many politicians and elites capitulate to him. And so we're just trying to bring more attention that he's the person to blame for these higher costs that you're seeing.
- [39:07]
Lead Host / Moderator
Sarah, let me put up some of the specifics. This is a beach day. The price of a cooler, Towels, shade, sunscreen, toys and water. Gear for a family, up 23%. Back to school. Shopping, backpacks, calculators, notebooks, lunch gear, shoes, socks, and classroom basics, up 28.9%. And backyard cookout. Charcoal grill, tools, chair, tableware, bug spray, cooler basics, portable grill for backyard cookout, up 31%. To me, the political crisis for Trump is the sticker shock. Plus everything he says is a full naked reveal of his indifference to people's economic suffering. Was that always the case with him? Or is he newly indifferent to people's economic crises and he just, or you guys helped cover it up during the first term. Did he ever care about people's personal economic security?
- [40:02]
Sarah Matthews
Look, this is a man who's an out of touch billionaire. And I think that during the first administration we weren't dealing with this affordability crisis. So it wasn't something that he had to grapple with then, but now he doesn' know how to handle this because he's not someone who's ever had to worry about being able to choose between affording groceries or filling up your gas tank. I mean, the guy probably hasn't been inside a grocery store or filled up his own tank of gas in decades. And so this isn't something that he can actually comprehend and understand. And it's why we see him focusing on these vanity projects like the Ballroom and the reflecting pool, etc. Because he does not understand just how tone deaf that comes across to be, spending taxpayer money on these little vanity projects for himself instead of doing things that he said he would do on the campaign trail. And let's remember, he said that he would get inflation under control. He said that he would bring prices down. And neither of those things have happened. And we've seen inflation rise to the highest level in three years under his watch because of these disastrous policies.
- [41:07]
Lead Host / Moderator
Are you surprised that no one around Trump can get him on message on the economy?
- [41:14]
Sarah Matthews
No, I, it does not surprise me in the slightest. It's hard to get him on message about anything. But like this, like he is this out of touch elite billionaire. He can't understand what it's like for the everyday hard working average American who is struggling right now in his economy. And so that's why you see him say these things like I love the inflation or affordability is a hoax created by Democrats. I mean, does he think that those are good talking points like, come on, you're just handing the Democrats material. And that's why I think we're going to see a blue wave in November, not just with the House, but potentially the Senate? Because he just keeps putting his foot in his mouth and he thinks he's his own best messenger. But on a topic like this, he's definitely not doing well.
- [42:03]
Lead Host / Moderator
I know you guys do a lot of focus groups too. You'll have to come back with some of the focus group reaction once these are up. Summer travel season picks up. Sarah Matthews, thank you for joining us to talk about the campaign. When we, when we come back, we'll finally. We've made him wait 51 minutes. But we'll let John weigh in on how electric New York City feels today after last night's epic historic Knicks comeback win. Don't go anywhere.
- [42:27]
John Heilman
Three games to one now, one win away from a title.
- [42:39]
Lead Host / Moderator
It was the best.
- [42:40]
John Heilman
We were down by 29 points and
- [42:42]
Lead Host / Moderator
we came back from OG anime Kenobi and Jalen Brunson. Baby.
- [42:46]
John Heilman
I don't even have the words. I blacked out. Craziest night of my life. This is one of the happiest days of my life. It's been crazy. I just watched a 30 point comeback. I mean I can't, I still can't believe this is real life.
- [42:56]
Mike Schmidt
Yo.
- [42:56]
John Heilman
I have never experienced anything like this
- [42:58]
Mike Schmidt
in the history of me being alive.
- [42:59]
John Heilman
I've been alive for 21 years. The most amazing sporting events I've ever seen. And I was in the Garden when Willis came out in game seven in 1970.
- [43:08]
Lead Host / Moderator
Is this the best sporting moment of your life?
- [43:10]
Brendan Ballou
The best.
- [43:13]
John Heilman
Nobody guarding the inbound pass. It might just get go flat for Jerson. Allow him to operate at the top. 101 gets it.
- [43:23]
Brendan Ballou
Shot.
- [43:23]
John Heilman
No good. The tip. It's gone. It's gone. It's gone. With 1.2 remaining. Next take the lead.
- [43:31]
Lead Host / Moderator
OG crazy.
- [43:32]
John Heilman
And it's 107, 106. I don't know if Mike Breen was purposefully or consciously mimicking the famous home run call on Bobby Thompson's home run, but you know, Giants with the pennant. Giants with the pennant. It's good, it's good, it's good. The three, the three repeat of that was, was a great call. And, and look, I mean this. I'm always feel safe quoting Charles Barkley about things like this. And he's really, this is really right. He's like New York. He gets like the, the Yankees have had enormous success over a lot of time. You've had championships in football with the New York Giants. You know, the Mets have even won a championship more recently than the, than the 86.
- [44:12]
Lead Host / Moderator
Yeah.
- [44:12]
John Heilman
But even though all those sports are. Have huge followings, the Rangers that New York is a basketball town. And he, and the comparison he made was if you're in, if you're in, if you go to, to Philly, it's like the Sixers can win the championship, the Phillies can win the world championship, but it's an Eagles town. It's a football town, but Philly is a football town. And in the same way, like, somehow the Knicks are a unifying force here. That, that is, we are a basketball town. And that has made the pain of 50 years of not winning a championship all the deeper. And the prospect of now it all coming together in this way all the more electric, exciting, redemptive. And it's part of why it's the only thing anyone in New York is talking about. It's an amazing. It's like nothing like you've ever seen before. Everyone's in their next gear, and it's all anyone's talking about.
- [45:03]
Lead Host / Moderator
And these players deserve it. These players deserve all the love. They're awesome. They're awesome. Team full of heroes. I love them. Yeah.
- [45:10]
John Heilman
Best things. Just. It's just like you watched that last night. You're like, that is why sports.
- [45:14]
Lead Host / Moderator
Exactly. Exactly. Howland, thank you for being here. When we come back, a skeptical judge with a warning to Donald Trump and his deeply unpopular, possibly illegal $1.8 billion slush fund. The next hour of deadline, White House starts after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [45:33]
Brendan Ballou
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- [45:40]
John Heilman
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- [45:42]
Brendan Ballou
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