Deadline: White House – “Trump Justice Department Hits a Snag”

Host: Nicolle Wallace (MS NOW)
Date: December 4, 2025
Guests: Rep. Jason Crow, John Heilemann, Carol Leonnig, Andrew Weissman, Jacob Soborov, Molly Jong-Fast, Annie Lucia Lopez Beloza

Overview

This episode examines two central controversies of the Trump administration's second term:

1. Shocking military conduct and oversight, specifically a deadly U.S. strike on shipwrecked alleged drug traffickers in the Caribbean and efforts by Democratic lawmakers to ensure military personnel are reminded of their duty to obey only lawful orders.
2. Major legal setbacks for the Trump Justice Department, including the grand jury’s refusal to indict New York Attorney General Letitia James and larger questions around politicization of justice.

The hour features exclusive reactions from lawmakers targeted by DOJ investigations, legal experts breaking down the implications, and a moving interview with a college student deported under the Trump deportation crackdown.

Section 1: Pentagon Strikes and Congressional Oversight

The Controversy Over Military Strikes (01:50–18:00)

Key Discussion Points

• Congressman Jason Crow (a former Army Ranger and target of a reported DOJ counterterror investigation) responds to the administration’s apparent political retribution against lawmakers reminding troops to reject unlawful orders.
• Lawmakers raise urgent questions about a U.S. military “second strike” that killed survivors of a first attack on a supposedly drug-trafficking vessel—potentially constituting a war crime.

Notable Quotes

• Jason Crow [04:45]:
  "It tells us everything we need to know about the disdain for the Constitution of Donald Trump and those around him, the disdain for the rule of law, and the disdain for anybody who simply is reminding our service members what their oath, what the Constitution, and what the law requires them to do."

• Jason Crow [07:28]:
  "This is squarely within the wheelhouse of the Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee. It is our job to investigate... this example, by the way, of shipwrecked survivors not being targeted, this actually has a long history."

Timestamps & Key Moments

• 01:11–01:51 – Jason Crow questions policy surrounding recent U.S. military operations in the Caribbean.
• 05:58–07:14 – Crow recalls his own military training, the laws of war, and why the message to refuse unlawful orders must not be silenced—even under threat of DOJ scrutiny.
• 09:45–11:36 – Rep. Crow rebuts the Trump admin’s novel assertion that all drug traffickers are "designated terrorists," expressing concern over unchecked executive military authority without Congressional debate or authorization.
• 12:10–12:48 – Crow candidly describes GOP colleagues only acting under political duress, not principle:
  "Their courage has increased as Donald Trump's popularity in polling has decreased."

Partisan Reactions and the Push for Disclosure

• Wallace and Crow cite bipartisan concern, with some Republicans labeling the second strike a war crime.
• Discussion of calls to release the actual strike footage for public accountability:
  • Jason Crow [14:05]:
    "So here's an idea. How about we release the video and people can make their own decision?"

Broader Ethical Stakes

• Jason Crow [17:06]:
  "The reason why we don’t kill people who are wounded, ... floating in the water clinging to shipwrecks is because, guess what, our sons and daughters might be in a position someday... These rules are going to apply to us. That’s why it matters."

Section 2: DOJ's Failed Prosecution Attempts

Breakdown: Letitia James Grand Jury Failure (19:31–37:09)

Key Discussion Points

• The Trump DOJ’s failed attempt to indict New York AG Letitia James on alleged mortgage fraud charges, after a prior dismissal due to the illegal appointment of the case's prosecutor.
• Reporting by Carol Leonnig (MS NOW) that the grand jury in Norfolk, VA, refused to indict (a “no true bill”).
• Legal analyst Andrew Weissman deconstructs both the legal and political fiasco facing the DOJ.

Notable Quotes

• Carol Leonnig [22:33]:
  "This grand jury was not particularly ebullient about indicting Letitia James, that much we know."

• Andrew Weissman [23:24]:
  "To have it be 14 to 9 is really suggests that they’re going to have huge trouble at trial... it suggests that they’re not complying with the DOJ rules, which are that you aren’t supposed to bring [a] case unless you have a lively prospect of being able to win at trial..."

• Carol Leonnig [27:45]:
  "Your summary that this doesn’t happen very often is on the money... It’s very rare. And... it’s embarrassing to the Department of Justice."

Timestamps & Key Moments

• 19:31–20:41 – Wallace summarizes DOJ’s intent to try again for indictment following the earlier legal debacle.
• 22:01–22:48 – Discussion of whether the grand jury rejected weak evidence or faced procedural/authorization problems.
• 23:24–26:42 – Weissman explains normal DOJ standards, grand jury function, political context, and the rarely successful “vindictive and selective prosecution” defense.
• 26:46–27:28 – Breaking: Carol Leonnig confirms the grand jury declined to indict.
• 30:07 – Weissman:
  "I was a prosecutor for 21 years. I never saw in the district in which I was raised a no true bill."
  [Describes the rarity as a major black mark and sign of both politicization and incompetence.]

Implications and Reflections

• Weissman and Wallace argue the DOJ under Trump is “run out of the White House” and has abandoned prosecutorial norms.
• The repeated grand jury setbacks—including the current one—send devastating signals about politicized justice and lack of credible evidence.
• Wallace ties these developments to broader government dysfunction, including suspicious counterterror probes of lawmakers and DOJ political appointees’ controversial personal conduct.

Section 3: Deportation Under the Trump Crackdown

The Human Toll: Interview with Deported Dreamer (39:04–47:16)

Key Discussion Points

• Jacob Soborov’s exclusive interview with Annie Lucia Lopez Beloza: a college freshman deported to Honduras while trying to visit her parents for Thanksgiving, despite living in the U.S. since age 7.
• Moral and political questions around mass deportations under Trump and Stephen Miller.

Notable Quotes

• Annie Lucia Lopez Beloza [40:09]:
  "I got deported. I’m here... I wasn’t able to let them know that I was gonna get deported. And I didn’t even know that I was gonna get deported until I was."

• Annie Lucia Lopez Beloza [41:54]:
  "We try to find the best that we can to be able to fulfill our dreams. And people saying we’re criminals, it’s just not right."

• Molly Jong-Fast [44:59]:
  "The dream of America is not that we lock up college students and, you know, legally. It's very dicey. And also, remember, she's still better off than all of the people who have been deported, who don't speak perfect English, who are being deported to places they never even have any, you know, relationship to at all."

Timestamps & Key Moments

• 39:51–40:58 – Annie’s account of her sudden deportation and the pain of family separation.
• 41:33–42:11 – Annie denounces rhetoric labeling Dreamers as “the worst of the worst.”
• 43:45–44:59 – Panel assesses how unpopular and damaging these policies are, with real consequences for U.S. international image and education.
• 45:07–45:38 – Annie shares hope to return, finish college, and start a business:
  "My hopes for the future is to first see my family, be able to hug them, and also be able to finish my college..."
• 46:34 – Jacob Soborov highlights the need to keep telling these human stories, as deportations now impact even highly assimilated Dreamers.

Broader Impact

• Molly Jong-Fast [47:10]: Notes the vast majority of those deported have no criminal record; contrasts this with Trump’s pardoning of actual criminals.
• Deportation policy, once “popular,” now leaves Trump “underwater” in polls, even among traditional supporters.

Closing Themes

• Justice Crisis: The Trump DOJ is repeatedly failing even with “rigged” processes; grand juries and judges (including Trump’s own appointees) are rejecting baseless, politicized cases.
• Military Ethics and Oversight: Reckless or criminal military conduct is being shielded and politically weaponized—raising alarm across both parties.
• Human Cost of Policy: The administration’s deportation approach is splitting families and targeting students, exposing the contradiction between campaign rhetoric and the lived reality for many immigrants.

Memorable Quotes and Moments

• Crow [04:45]: "Disdain for the Constitution of Donald Trump and those around him..."
• Weissman [23:24]: "14 to 9... going to have huge trouble at trial... not complying with the DOJ rules..."
• Lopez Beloza [41:54]: "People saying we’re criminals, it’s just not right."
• Wallace [29:18]: "They don’t seem to care that these terribly weak cases are getting rejected by grand juries."
• Heilemann [16:03]: "He thinks that seeing those people, even if they’re shipwrecked, seeing them killed in that way, doesn’t trouble him morally."

Useful Timestamps

• 01:50 – Wallace frames the Pentagon controversy
• 04:45 – Crow’s response to DOJ/FBI investigation threat
• 07:28 – Crow on Congressional oversight
• 11:36 – Crow on bipartisan pushback and political pressure
• 14:05 – Crow calls for release of strike video
• 17:06 – Crow on why the laws of war protect Americans, too
• 19:31 – DOJ moves to re-indict Letitia James
• 22:33 – Leonnig: grand jury “not particularly ebullient”
• 26:46 – Breaking: no indictment for James
• 30:07 – Weissman on rarity of no true bills
• 39:51 – Annie Lopez’s account of deportation
• 41:54 – Lopez: "People saying we’re criminals, it’s just not right."
• 46:34 – Soborov: “we just have to keep telling these stories every single day”
• 47:10 – Jong-Fast: ICE detainments overwhelmingly non-violent

Tone and Language

• Candid, urgent, often incredulous regarding the Trump administration’s apparent disregard for legal and ethical norms, both in military operations and domestic justice.
• Humanizing in coverage of deportation, giving voice to those affected.
• Straightforward, fact-driven, with facets of moral outrage and calls to action, especially regarding government accountability and the need for public transparency.