“Trump plans to drop anti-weaponization fund”

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House
Episode: “Trump plans to drop anti-weaponization fund”
Host: Nicolle Wallace (with John Heilemann guest-hosting much of the episode)
Original Air Date: June 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode dissects the breaking news that Donald Trump and his administration have abandoned plans for a $1.8 billion "anti-weaponization fund," widely regarded as a controversial slush fund designed to pay off Trump allies, including those involved in the January 6 insurrection. The roundtable—featuring Nicole Wallace, John Heilemann, Claire McCaskill, Jason Crow, and others—explores the political fallout, the growing pushback from Senate Republicans, and the broader implications for corruption, accountability, and Democratic messaging heading into the midterms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Demise of the Trump Slush Fund (01:00–07:28)

• Announcement: The Trump administration confirms it will no longer pursue a $1.8 billion fund previously intended to reward loyalists, including insurrectionists.
  • John Heilemann summarizes: “There is an idea on the table that is too toxic, too smelly, too horrible for Donald Trump... that slush fund died an unceremonious death today.” ([01:00])
• Law Enforcement Reaction: Michael Fanon, a key January 6 officer, previously condemned the plan:
  • “It’s disgraceful that taxpayer money would be used to compensate violent insurrectionists... This was like salt on the wound.” ([02:22])
• Possible Reasons for Pullback:
  • Internal GOP dissent signals a rare break with Trump; over a dozen Republican senators urged him to drop it, including staunch allies like Lindsey Graham.
  • The enduring question: Is this Senate pushback a sign of shifting Republican power dynamics or just political self-preservation in the face of inevitable Democratic accountability?

2. Political Strategy & Democratic Messaging (07:28–16:55)

• Jon Ossoff’s Messaging:
  • Jon Lovett lauds Ossoff’s stump speeches connecting Trump’s corruption with everyday Americans’ struggles:
    • “While you pay more for everything, Donald Trump wants your tax dollars for what many are calling the Jeffrey Epstein Memorial Ballroom.” ([11:49])
  • Nicole Wallace praises this method: “He brings people into it, just tells the story... just the facts speaking for themselves.” ([10:21])
• Economic Repercussions:
  • Lovett ties inflation and cost increases to Trump’s self-dealing: “Ground beef’s up 25%, coffee 40%, the price of gas 33%... and Trump wants your tax dollars for a ballroom.” ([11:49])
  • Claire McCaskill highlights the effectiveness of pairing corruption with pocketbook issues: “This is easy corruption, easy to see... he led with the increase in prices, then added the whipped cream and cherry—Epstein Memorial Ballroom.” ([13:34])
• The Generational Gap:
  • Panel laments the lack of Gen X leadership: “Is there no sweet spot?... Where are they, Claire? Where are they?” ([15:32])
  • McCaskill predicts a younger Democratic nominee in the coming years: “Our nominee for president will not be over the age of 70. I do not believe they'll be younger than 50, but I don't believe they'll be over 70.” ([16:56])

3. Corruption As Central Campaign Issue (24:35–34:39)

• Trump’s Self-dealing and DOJ Weaponization:
  • John Heilemann: “He has provided brazen, audacious example after brazen, unprecedented, audacious example of his eagerness to use the power... to fatten his wallet and bank account and those of his kids and allies.” ([24:35])
  • Examples include: Kushner’s Middle East business, personal enrichment, and attempts to grant himself immunity from tax investigations.
• Launch of End Corruption Caucus:
  • Congressman Jason Crow: “Corruption is poisoning our politics... We must take on corruption to lower prices, restore trust and help working families.” ([24:35])
  • Crow, a January 6 survivor, viscerally describes disgust at the thought of payouts to insurrectionists: “Felt physically ill... just another brazen example of outright corruption but the cruelty of this administration.” ([27:17])
• Tying Corruption to Everyday Struggles:
  • Crow: “It's not just some abstract corruption... it is a direct result of the suffering of the American people that are paying for this in real time.” ([28:27])
  • Emphasis on local, service-first candidates in battleground districts who can connect this message at the ground level.

4. Republican Enabling & Lessons from Trump Era (39:35–47:22)

• Institutional Weakness, Appeasement & Its Costs:
  • Tim O'Brien: “Jumping on the Trump train is a dangerous ride... he will betray you or take advantage of you and you will degrade your own reputation and your own legacy.” ([45:02])
  • Heilemann comments on the Republican Party’s moral collapse and lack of “steel” against Trump: “A big factor in all of that is a lack of steel, moral and ethical and intellectual steel.” ([45:02])
• The Path Forward for Democrats & Former Public Officials:
  • McCaskill encourages current officials to find purpose beyond office: “Come on out. It’s fine out here. ...If you would keep that in your sights, then maybe it would give you a little more courage to stand up and do the right thing.” ([46:30])
  • Courage as Contagion: “Courage is contagious and it's spreading around this country like wildfire right now.” – Chris Hayes ([47:22])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Pushback from GOP:
  "When you've lost Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump retreating on his $1.8 billion slush fund for his friends, family and insurrectionists is where we begin today." – John Heilemann ([03:20])
• On Democratic Messaging:
  “He is telling a very clean, logical story of those three things [corruption, democracy, economy]. And that is what we need.” – Nicole Wallace ([10:21])
• On Corruption’s Impact:
  “While they get a $1.8 billion payout fund, people are losing their health care... It is tied to the struggles of the American people, which is the point.” – Jason Crow ([28:27])
• On GOP Morality:
  “A big factor in all of that is a lack of steel, moral and ethical and intellectual steel.” – Tim O’Brien ([45:02])
• On Post-Congress Life:
  “Come on out. It's fine out here. I feel guilty. I'm so happy. ...There is a life outside of that place, and if you would keep that in your sights, then maybe it would give you a little more courage to stand up and do the right thing.” – Claire McCaskill ([46:30])
• On Courage:
  “Courage is contagious and it's spreading around this country like wildfire right now.” – Chris Hayes ([47:22])

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Timestamps of Significant Segments

• 01:00–07:28 – Breaking down the demise of Trump’s controversial fund, Senate GOP pushback
• 07:28–16:55 – Jon Ossoff’s messaging; connecting Trump’s corruption to economic anxieties; generational discussion on leadership
• 24:35–34:39 – Trump’s continued corruption; launch of End Corruption Caucus; Jason Crow’s firsthand account and call to action
• 39:35–47:22 – Broader lessons about institutional failure, courage, and the post-Trump political landscape

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Tone & Language

The conversation combines exasperation, dark humor, and urgency. The panelists frequently use vivid, relatable language (“salt on the wound,” “Epstein Memorial Ballroom,” “he sucks at gas prices”) while consistently tying back national political issues to everyday experiences and the future direction of American democracy.

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Takeaway

The episode presents a pivotal political turning point: Trump’s failed fund is less a sign of principled GOP opposition and more a testament to mounting public and political pressure around unchecked corruption. The panel emphasizes that accountability, effective storytelling, generational renewal, and a relentless pro-democracy coalition are essential—both for defeating Trumpism and for rebuilding trust in government.

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For Further Coverage:

• Listen for more analysis from Congressman Jason Crow, Tim O’Brien, and Claire McCaskill on fighting corruption and the state of Democratic organizing in battleground states.
• Upcoming segments tease further examination of Trump’s “Concert for America’s 250th Birthday” failure and the continuing revolt inside media institutions.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Chris Hayes]

Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? The next episode of our special miniseries, the AI Endgame, I'm speaking with Timnit Gebru about inequities in artificial intelligence.

[Claire McCaskill]

When we lump all of these things into AI, it just makes the conversation very difficult because when we're talking about the harms of AI, which harms of which AI are we talking about? We're talking about cancer detection with specifically trained image recognition models, or are we talking about mimicking a human, which is a very dangerous thing to do?

[Chris Hayes]

Why is this happening? The AI Endgame? Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Heilemann]

Hi everyone. Happy Monday. It's 4 o' clock in New York, so only took 11 years. But finally, at long last, there is an idea on the table that is too toxic, too smelly, too horrible for Donald Trump. It's, of course, the $1.8 billion slush fund to pay Donald Trump's allies and cronies and supporters up to and potentially including the violent insurrectionist who assaulted cops on January 6, 2021. That idea, that slush fund died an unceremonious death today. A senior White House official confirming to our colleague Jackie Alemany, news that was first reported by Axios, that the Trump administration's plans to drop the controversial fund are true. It's unclear at the moment how that part of the story affects the deal, that it was part of this deal with the irs, where they agreed to effectively grant immunity to Donald Trump and Trump's kids and Trump's businesses from any and all tax audits and investigations now and forever in the future. But as for the fun which was part of that settlement, take a listen to what one of the law enforcement officers who defended the United states Capitol on January 6th and everyone inside of it said when the slush fund was first announced two weeks ago.

[Chris Hayes]

I think adjectives have lost meaning in describing the actions of this administration. I guess there's a combination of two that come to mind, and it's disgraceful that taxpayer money would be used to compensate violent insurrectionists and let's make no mistake about what this fund is going to be used for. This fund is going to be used to pay violent criminals for committing violent crimes on behalf of Donald Trump on January 6, 2021. And that's it. You know, if January 20 was the nail in the coffin for accountability on January 6 in Trump's pardoning of the 1500 plus insurrectionists that participated in the events of that day, this was like salt on the wound.

[John Heilemann]

I want to stop for a second and address a question. I get more than just about anything else. And it's this. Does any of it matter? Does anything that anyone says matter? Are people numb? Everything matters. What Michael Fanon said that day, that was 14 days ago, that mattered. He was on the side that won today. It was an idea that was, in his words, effing disgraceful. And now it's dead. Now the question is, is it dead because it was simply too tyrannical and toxic and insane even for Donald Trump, or is it dead for some other reason, something else we should take note of? Is it dead because perhaps Trump's grip on elected Republicans in the Senate is starting to loosen on that? The Wall Street Journal writes this, quote, more than a dozen Republican senators have privately urged top Trump aides to drop the fund senators since its creation last week, according to people familiar with the outreach. They include Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who is usually supportive of the president's efforts. And you know what they say when you've lost Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump retreating on his $1.8 billion slush fund for his friends, family and insurrectionists is where we begin today with some of our favorite experts and friends. Pod Save America co host Jon Levitt is back with us. He's a former speechwriter for both President OB and Hillary Clinton. He is the co founder of Crooked Media. And with me at the table, political analyst, the former Senator Claire McCaskill. Claire, what do you think?

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, he had a problem. He has reconciliation this week and he didn't have the votes. And by the way, they're still going to have to vote on it. If you think Chuck Schumer is going to miss the opportunity to make the Republicans go on record about the slush fund, you're not paying attention. They will have to vote this week on an amendment that will say that this slush fund cannot happen, cannot ever happen, should never have happened. They're going to have to vote on it. And it will be interesting to see how many votes he will lose now. Some of them will, you know, probably Cower and go ahead and vote against it because they say, well, it's not going to happen anyway now. But he created a political situation that finally became something even the cowardly Republicans in the United States Senate could not swallow.

[John Heilemann]

I mean, John, the other side of this is it's effing insane that it got to this. Right. Like, it's insane that this is the thing. Right. An actual slush fund that even the person acting as Attorney general, I think that's his title, acting Attorney General Todd Blanche conceded was a slush fund with his little air quotes. A slush fund for violent insurrectionists is where the line is. But I guess we know there's a line.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I, like, I didn't sort of feel bad for Donald Trump because he's gotten away with virtually everything. It must have caught him off guard to have pushback from Republicans in the Senate. But I will say, like the, the, the pushback even in this case, a basically just theft of tax dollars to give to his allies. That may be a bridge too far for some of them, but only to be expressed privately. Like John Thune went out there and said something kind of representing the kind of worries of the caucus. But so far, all they've really done is bravely left D.C. right, they didn't give Trump more money for immigration on top of what was already part of the big beautiful bill. That's what they've done. The reason this fund was even on the table is because Republicans in Congress have let Trump get away with every kind of corruption and malfeasance that was inconceivable to us even a few years ago. We have an unprecedented amount of corruption. Never before in the history of the Republican. All these people have looked the other way. They have enabled all of it. And so much to their chagrin, Donald Trump thought he could get away with even one more thing. But it turns out this, they're willing to push back on, I don't think out of patriotism, but out of fear that Chuck Schumer and the Democrats will hold them accountable for it.

[John Heilemann]

Well, I think something else is going on. I mean, Jon Ossoff has crafted a message that his ringing through loud and clear. I mean, it is a massive political problem that they've co signed corruption. Let me play you his, I think a speech that people will look at as perhaps a political fork in the road for a long time.

[Jon Lovett]

His presidency crumbling, Donald spent Saturday complaining on the Internet. Listen to this. 6 hours, 52 posts. The President attacked the Pope. He posted his own face on Mount Rushmore and a made up Trump peace prize. He announced three times America's back. And he assured an increasingly concerned public he's in excellent health. And when not posting, he's been trying to rob us. Have you seen it? He sued the US government he commands for $10 billion. Then he settled the suit with himself to create a $1.8 billion slush fund fund so he can cut checks to cronies and Jan six foot soldiers. He pardoned them and now he wants you to pay him. He's trying to put his face on the money. Did you see that? He's building a monument to himself. But see Atlanta, he's doing these things now because no one will honor him when he's gone. Because he's a failed president and a national disgrace.

[John Heilemann]

John Lovett, I'm expert at very few things but political stump speeches. I do not miss them, even from people I loathe and would never vote for. This is the best one I have heard, not just in the last 18 months, but perhaps in longer than that. And this has that perfect Obama esque combination of mocking and specificity. The applause lines are like pitch perfect. And I haven't heard a crowd roar like that, frankly, since the Trump 2016 rally.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, Ossoff has been hitting this sort of tone for a while now. They're great speeches. Partly because he is specific. He's not. He's letting the facts speak for themselves. The facts are so outrageous. The problem isn't that the problem with telling the story of Donald Trump is not that Democrats haven't found the harsh enough or most kind of earth shattering words to express it. It's that need to get the story out clearly to more people and to have that story believed from sort of trusted speakers. So you don't have to put a lot of spin on the ball. You don't have to act like you're crossing the Delaware. You don't have to be, which is that sometimes a lot of Democrats, they're at the front of the boat standing there, you know, they're doing their version of Hamilton that doesn't rhyme. And so it's annoying. It's annoying. And this isn't annoying. It's great. And he brings people into it, just tells the story. You may have seen this part, you may not have seen this other part. And so outrageous. Just the facts speaking for themselves. And he's making an argument. He makes an argument that ties Donald Trump's corruption, Donald Trump's assault on democracy and to how people are experiencing the Donald Trump presidency in the economy. He is telling a very clean, logical story of those three things. And that is what we need.

[John Heilemann]

Let me show you the part, Claire, that John Love is talking about here. He is talking about the cost of living and the ballroom.

[Jon Lovett]

This is what small men like Donald Trump and J.D. vance and Stephen Miller will never understand, that our national greatness flows not through our blood or our genes, but through our ideas. Americans. He promised to bring down prices on day one. Instead, prices are soaring. Ground beef's up 25% since Trump was sworn in. Coffee 40%. The price of gas 33%. Groceries, rent, health care and the power bill hit their new all time highs last month. And while you pay more for everything, Donald Trump wants your tax dollars for what many are calling the Jeffrey Epstein Memorial Ballroom. By the way, by the way, he forced out that Republican congressman, the one who made him release the Epstein files. Did you see that? That is true commitment to the COVID up,

[John Heilemann]

Claire. The construction here, though, I mean, New York Times has some reporting about Trump voters and whether they regret their vote. And to John Levitt's point, the story they tell is the Same. Coffee up 40%, price of gas 33%, groceries, rent, health care and the power bill hit all time highs. That is a lived experience in this country. The political craft here is marrying it up to this while you pay more for everything. Donald Trump wants your tax dollars for what many are calling the Jeffrey Epstein Memorial Ballroom.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah, the, the way he weaved in the specificity of the increase in prices, which by the way, everyone feels it's, this is easy. It's in plain sight. It's not like Donald Jr. Over in Qatar cutting a deal for crypto. And it's not like Eric over in, you know, some other country cutting a deal on a licensing deal in a hotel. That kind of corruption is going on daily and it's substantial. But this is easy corruption, easy to see. And what he led with was not the corruption, not how sleazy the ballroom is or any of that. He led with the increase in prices. And then he added the whipped cream and cherry, which was the Epstein Memorial Ballroom. The ballroom will really stick with this president if it ever gets built, it will stick with him, but not in the right way. And I do think that the Republicans are seeing how frustrated Americans are and there's no relief in sight, Nicole. I mean, this president isn't. He's not going to start tomorrow by trying to figure out how to bring down housing costs. He's not going to start tomorrow with calling A summit of all the insurance companies and saying, why are health insurance premiums going up so much? He's not doing any of that. He's just figuring out what color the swimming pool should be.

[John Heilemann]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's back to your first point, John. I mean, it's not about what Trump sort of got tripped up doing. Right. Trump is going to do everything he wants to do. He has the impulse control, you know, less than a hunting dog. It's about what Republicans will permit him to do and what political price, if any, they will pay. I feel like that's the part of the Trump story that we may be sort of coming around the turn from. I guess my question for you is, is it too late?

[Nicole Wallace]

We're about to have a midterm. And never in my life has there been a Republican Congress more deserving of being held accountable for the President's failures. I mean, one thing also says he comes back to checks and balances, which I do think is, I am sure, something that polls really well amongst his core base of voters, among independents, among that maybe haven't voted for a Democrat before, but are frustrated. Right. And you know, a lot of times we hold the Congress responsible for an administration's failures, but this Congress is responsible. They deserve all the. A lot of the blame for what's happening. They could have stopped a lot of what we have seen and they refused to do so. Look what we're watching right now. All these Republicans act like they have no power, meanwhile, they push back in one meeting and all of a sudden the idea of this fund is off the table. My only frustration with all of this is that, like, I've been annoyed at having to live under a gerontocracy and people that are not retiring when they should be retiring. The fact that we're skipping from candidates who could be my grandparents to candidates who are younger than me is annoying. I don't like. That's a small thing. It's just a frustrating to me. Like all of a sudden, John Biden was too old. Oz off is younger than me. Is there no sweet spot? Whatever the. What are the Gen X? Where are they, Claire? Where are they?

[John Heilemann]

Where are they?

[Claire McCaskill]

Well, I'm older than that, so the present company accepted. There you go. Part of the problem is that life in Washington becomes so insular. And you know this, John, you've been around it, that people think this is what I have to hold onto no matter what. And it is a character flaw, not unlike other character flaws. The fact that people can't see. And when I came to the Senate, I admired Dianne Feinstein. I became very sad and depressed at the end of Dianne Feinstein's life because she could not see that she was holding on too long. But what's happening now is I think the youngest generation, Ossoff and even younger are saying, okay, we're going to do it. We're going to take on these guys. We're going to try to turn the page and bring younger leaders forward. And I do think the next couple of years we'll see more people, you know, like Pete Buttigieg and others, governors out there that are in your sweet spot, that are going to step up. You know what say I want to lead. I want to lead. And I think our nominee for president will not be over the age of 70. I do not believe that. I do not believe they'll be younger than 50, but I don't believe they'll be over 70. I think our nominee for president will be younger.

[John Heilemann]

I had this conversation with Adam Kinzinger who sat right there. Democrats are still engaged in this search for perfect where like ex Republicans who have converted to the pro Democracy caucus would vote for this table over someone who would continue to destroy democracy. Just take me inside, John. Like the, the sort of Goldilocks feeling that you have seeing all that Ossoff speech.

[Nicole Wallace]

Look, You're one of them. The Republicans that manage to stand against the tide are an interesting group of people and they're sort of hardened. They kind of approach being part of the democracy.

[John Heilemann]

Well, we fit in a minivan. We're like politically insignificant. Right? Not very many. Obviously not very many of us. But, but I think we do feel angst at the search for perfect. Like, like, like what Osloff said to me was like a perfect message. And I don't care if this table delivers it for the next three years.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, I think he's like showing what, like what, what it sounds like to have a. First of all, his events also look great. This is, this is what a Democratic campaign that has enthusiasm, that is sort of thinking about how to break through in a new era, that is fluent in modern media. Like, this is what it looks like. And by the way, they just, they clearly have a very talented team. That is an excellent, well crafted speech. That's hard to do right there. Just aren't that, that's really just. They're just doing great work. Just being excellent is a great thing to do. I think sometimes with the ex Republicans, I think you're, you kind of approach being Part of our movement as sort of like graveyard shift nurses. Like, you're not here for a good time, there's work to do, and you put on the gloves and you sort of. You get through it, you know, and then that's. That's brave and cool. Look, I think there's a righteousness to your kind of participation on our side, but, like, kind of, we're here because we wanted to be here, you're here because you had to be here. So it's a little bit. It's a little bit different in that respect, but maybe you have a more of a logic to it because you're not Democrats, because your hearts are fluttering.

[John Heilemann]

I think it's that the result, though, is that you're more evangelical, right? Like, you're out there and you're like, it has to be whoever they like, whoever you all pick, I will, I will vote for, again, like this table, a pair of shoes. Because the other choice is the end of our democracy.

[Claire McCaskill]

I'm pretty sure we won't pick anybody who's perfect, so you're safe.

[John Heilemann]

But I'm just saying, like, when you watch what Trump is doing, it's so much worse than anything that Hillary Clinton or Kamala Harris or in his two convention speech, former President Obama warned about. It's an interesting window into what the sort of contest is like on the Democratic side. And I'm just curious, John, are you feeling like it's trending in the right direction? Are you feeling like the midterms will be momentum upon which the 28 builds?

[Nicole Wallace]

I think it's incumbent upon us that, look, we're about to have a bunch of primaries, some of which have gone contentious. That's always the part of this where people are maybe a little bit tense, but I think you have to. The people that are leading these campaigns, whoever comes out ahead in the primaries, their job is to come together and be practical and do what it takes and make the argument that whatever our differences going into the primaries, we have an urgent mission to restore some accountability, and we have a hope of winning the Senate and hopefully we can win the House. And in terms of what? Like, like this is a problem beyond just Democrats, when politics is about more than just pragmatically having good policies that make the country a better place becomes tied into personal identity and kind of performances of, of belief and righteousness and who we are as people as opposed to using, you know, treating politicians like shovels we use to kind of dig ourselves out of a mess. I think that does make it tense. And it makes it more emotional. And that is like a problem of the modern social media age. But all of us, I think, have to kind of remind ourselves that, that whatever our difference is, we are part of a big pro democracy movement that runs from the, from the anti, anti Trump bul. Nicole Wallace center all the way to the far left of the Democratic Party. And that can be uncomfortable at times. But that's why being part of a coalition takes work.

[John Heilemann]

To put together such deep and thoughtful commentary on the heels of your wedding, which is talking about social media. Incredible, incredible images of happiness and joy. And we just want to add our congratulations to everything that we saw. Thank you for being here. I did. Congratulations.

[Nicole Wallace]

I'm Mary. Thank you.

[John Heilemann]

It's good. It's good. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. I've done it twice. I'm a f. Congratulations. Welcome to the institution. Claire, you stick around a little bit longer. Thank you guys for that. I love getting let in the back rooms of where the Democratic decisions are made. Thank you for that. When we come back, we'll have more reaction from a top Democrat to the fund that was too radioactive even for Donald Trump and his Republican allies on Capitol Hill. We'll dig into how to continue to confront the fire hose, of course, corruption that keeps emanating from the Trump White House. One of the Democrats leading that charge, Jason Crow, will join the conversation. Also had Trump is taking his concert for America's 250th birthday and going home. No one wants to play with him and his politically toxic freedom to 50 show. So he's calling the whole thing off and instead pitching a rally with only his most loyal supporters and himself. We'll look at how that might turn out later in the broadcast. Standing up to Donald Trump's biggest backers trying to magnify one of the nation's oldest and most iconic and successful news programs, 60 Minutes. We'll tell you what's happening on that front today. A big escalation and revolt. Much more Mandela Whitehouse continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[Nicole Wallace]

Sunday, June 14, from Washington, D.C. a special live taping of MsNow's hit podcast the Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Join her as she talks with actor and author Billy Eichner. They'll explore the power of humor in the face of adversity and Eichner's new audio memoir, Billy on Billy the Blueprint with Jen Psaki live with Billy Eichner. Get your tickets today at 6th and I.org.

[John Heilemann]

Since Donald Trump's return to the presidency last year. He's done a lot of things. Among them, he has provided brazen, audacious example after brazen, unprecedented, audacious example of his eagerness to use the power and prestige of the presidency and the United States government to fatten his wallet and bank account and those of his kids and allies. There's, of course, what we started with, the weaponization, the Justice Department, including that slush fund, but the broader weaponization of the Department of Justice to pursue Donald Trump's political enemies, including New York Attorney General Tish James, former FBI Director Jim Comey. There's also the fact that Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner, is right now America's special envoy for peace in the Middle East. Big job. While also trying to secure and achieving the same billions of dollars for his businesses from foreign governments in the Middle East. Also, Trump's series of stock trades that have yielded him massive gains, including from companies directly influenced by his policies and benefiting from him perhaps the most blatantly corrupt acts of them all. The one we've been talking about today, the 1.8 so called anti weaponization fund that was going to dole out cash to his political allies, including the insurrectionists potentially, but was deemed so politically toxic that Trump had to abandon it. This afternoon in the wake of all of that from a guy who ran the first time on a promise to, quote, drain the swamp, a trio of House Democrats just launched what they are calling the End Corruption Caucus. One of the co chairs, our next guest, Congressman Jason Crow, says this, quote, corruption is poisoning our politics. From the disastrous Citizens United decision to the president using his office to enrich himself and his family. Our democracy is buckling under the influence of billionaire donors and special interests. We must take on corruption to lower prices, restore trust and help working families. Joining us at the table, founding member of the End Corruption Caucus, our friend, Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. I've said this to you before, but I think we first interviewed you or I first interviewed you either on January 6th or that night or the day after when you were shielding some of your colleagues from the actual attackers as it was happening. And I just wonder what the last 14 days have been like for you before the slush fund was killed. To think that those people who you were all hiding from, Democrats and Republicans, were potentially going to receive cash payouts.

[Chris Hayes]

I almost felt physically ill to think about the people that not just threatened to derail the democracy and attacked us that day, but brutally beat these 160 police officers killing one of them people that still bear the visible and invisible scars of that day could get wealthy off of this fund. And as you said, it's just another brazen example of the outright corruption but the cruelty of this administration. Not only are they stealing money from taxpayers and giving it to convicted felons and cop abusers, beaters, but they are just outright stealing from the American people.

[Claire McCaskill]

What do you think?

[John Heilemann]

See, I guess I told this story on and off TV. I covered David Farrenfold's body of reporting in Trump 1.0 about all the self dealing at that he had the hotel and the post office. It feels like one of the oldest and longest standing practices of Trump to enrich himself with taxpayer money and assets and things that no other politician, let alone no other president has ever done. Do you think it's damaging him and the Republicans politically this time because the economy is so strained by his other decisions?

[Chris Hayes]

Absolutely. I mean, it becomes not just corruption on its own, but it's coupled with the severe struggling of American people. Right. I go back home. I just spent a week back in the district talking to families that are losing their health care, losing their homes right now, farms going under, the rising costs across the board for Americans. So while they get a $1.8 billion payout fund, people are losing their health care. Well, he gets a new golf course at Andrews Air Force Base. People are losing their homes. Well, he gets a billion dollar Gold Ballroom. People are canceling their annual vacations. It is tied to the struggles of the American people, which is the point. It's not just some abstract corruption. We're going after theft. It is a direct result of the suffering of the American people that are paying for this in real time.

[John Heilemann]

I pointed out that he talks about his Gold Ballroom and it's politically toxic. And some of our viewers will say, well, he doesn't plan on leaving. I don't care what he plans on. It is unconstitutional to stay any longer. And when you're this politically toxic and unpopular, there's no one that'll prop up your anti constitutional. I mean, what do you think we're heading toward in the next two to three years?

[Chris Hayes]

Well, I'm not going to take anything for granted. I'm the battleground chair for House Democrats right now. So my job over the last year and a half has been to recruit these candidates who are going to step up in rural areas, in red areas or places where Democrats haven't won in years and decades. In some cases, we are recruiting the next generation of servant leaders, not just to win elections in November, but to start a movement that's gonna end the vitriol and the partisanship of Donald Trump once and for all. Like, I just don't wanna stumble anymore from election cycle to election cycle, just winning every other November.

[John Heilemann]

And like, exhale after the election because

[Chris Hayes]

you eked, by the way, that we beat the vitriol, the poison of Donald Trump for the last decade. My entire time in politics has been in the era of Donald Trump over the last 10 years. And I am done just stumbling from cycle to cycle. We need to have our own movement that's going to result in a Democratic enlightenment with a lowercase D. That's going to inspire people across the spectrum who are going to rise up and say enough is enough. Which is why we launched this caucus, because this should be the most unifying issue in America right now. Corruption on the right and the left. People on both sides are stepping back and opting out of our system because they don't think it works for them.

[John Heilemann]

And.

[Chris Hayes]

And they're right. It doesn't work for them. It's why I'm a Democrat, actually. I was raised in a Republican family, a conservative working class family. I'm a Democrat because I don't want somebody to tell me how to live my life. I don't think somebody should tell me the answer to all my problems or solve all my issues for me. All I want is a level playing field so I can succeed or fail on my own. That's what the Democratic Party is about for me. That's what ending corruption is about for me.

[Claire McCaskill]

Jason, is there a place you are over these battleground districts? I think we spend a lot of time talking about big Senate races. Is there a place that Nicole's listeners and viewers can go to see where these battleground districts are, read the profiles of these candidates that are running in places that Trump may have won by as many as 10 points, but they actually have a chance. I worry that really the lifeline for Democratic candidates now are those people out there that give 10 and 20 bucks. It's not the big. I mean, there is money behind the curtain on our side because we can't unilaterally disarm. We hate the money behind the curtain, but really it's those low dollar donations. And I think there's a lot of people out there that want to help, but they don't know where to go to help if it's not where they live, because a lot of them live in very blue places. So where can somebody go and get the list of battleground districts where they might be able to help by sending 10 bucks or writing some postcards.

[Chris Hayes]

Well, I've set up a Service first leadership fund on ActBlue that actually is supporting those best candidates, the 20 best candidates in the country who I think can flip seats. These are street fighters, by the way. I flipped a seat in 2018. I held it in 2020. This is tough business, flipping a seat. And it's even tougher now because we're asking people to go into the most intense environment we have seen in our lifetimes. You get death threats, you get vitriol. You can't go out in public anymore with your family. In some cases, these are men and women who are closing their businesses, closing medical practices, walking away from law practices that have said, not on my watch. I am not going to let this happen. And it's called what it's called Service First.

[Claire McCaskill]

Service first.

[Chris Hayes]

And I am not going to let this country die on my watch. My family and I are stepping up, and I have sat in living rooms, across bars. I have sat face to face with these people for the last year and a half. And I said, if you're willing to step up and jump into this fight, we're going to have your back and we're going to protect you.

[John Heilemann]

Do you try to talk any of them out of it by telling them how brutal it can be in this climate?

[Chris Hayes]

I tell them the truth because we want people who know the truth and are willing to do it nonetheless. So it goes like this. I'll give my pitch, and they'll look at me and they say, let me get this right. So you want me to quit my job, tap into my life savings, spend half my time away from my kids, get death threats, have people looking through my trash, not be able to turn the TV on for the next year to see me wearing devil horns? And I'm like, yes, exactly.

[Claire McCaskill]

That's exactly what it is.

[John Heilemann]

And if they say, take me, you're like, you're it. Yeah.

[Chris Hayes]

But then I say, but your country needs you. And none of us get to choose. The moment where you're called to serve. That moment chooses you. The only choice you have to make is what you're willing to do when that moment comes. This is our moment. Between now and November will determine the course of our democracy. And people are stepping up. That's what the story is about. The story is not about Donald Trump. The story is about the millions of Americans who are holding the line in Minneapolis, who are stepping up, serving as poll watchers who are running for office at every level of government. Yeah, that is the story of this country.

[John Heilemann]

I want to, I want to press you more about these living room conversations or bar back wherever they're happening. I'm going to ask you to stay. I'm going to ask you to stay too. After the break. Trump was told over the weekend that he had to follow the law. And he didn't like that very much. He had a big boohoo meltdown. We'll tell you about it next.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Chris Hayes]

Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week, my podcast, why Is this Happening? The next episode of our special miniseries this the AI Endgame. I'm speaking with Timnit Gebru about inequities in artificial intelligence.

[Claire McCaskill]

When we lump all of these things into AI, it just makes the conversation very difficult because when we were talking about the harms of AI, which harms of which are we talking about? We're talking about cancer detection with specifically trained image recognition models, or are we talking about mimicking a human, which is a very dangerous thing to do.

[Chris Hayes]

Why is this happening? The AI Endgame? Listen now, wherever you get your podcast.

[John Heilemann]

So back on Friday, a federal judge gave Donald Trump two weeks to basically erase his name from the Kennedy center, where it never belonged in the first place. The judge blocked Trump's plans to shutter the Kennedy center for what Trump had called a two year, quote, complete rebuilding. Trump was so mad, he posted twice about it. On Saturday, he, of course, attacked the judge, called him a, quote, anti Trump hater, attempted to make the case for his own renovations and control of the Kennedy center, control that Donald Trump declared one day earlier he would relinquish because the Kennedy Center, Trump said, is a, quote, failing institution. In reality, it was, of course, Trump's control and politicization of the institution that brought on mass layoffs and destruction and dozens of cancellations of Performances which are the lifeblood of the Kennedy Center. But now, according to the Associated Press, this ruling is bringing, quote, hope, hope to artists who had been alienated by Trump's takeover. Joining our coverage, senior executive editor for Bloomberg Opinion, our political analyst Tim o'. Brien. Congressman Crow and Claire are still here. So you've joined at the perfect moment. Right. We've established that the corruption is catching up with Donald Trump. And I think there's so much evidence in public view from the weekend that Trump is absolutely out of his mind at all of these legal and political

[Tim O'Brien]

setbacks, because they're cutting to the core of who he is and Donald Trump's corruption and how craven. Donald Trump is isn't just one facet of other things he's doing. It's central to who he is. He has always been this person, and he hasn't been held fully accountable for any of it. He still isn't. But at least you've had a little blip on the screen over the last couple of weeks of judges becoming more assertive. Unfortunately, Republicans were on their way out of Congress becoming more assertive, but more assertive still. And he can't control any of that. And he's a megalomaniac and he's a narcissist. And he's been putting his hands on all of these monuments because he wants to have a permanence in Washington that he probably won't have. And when you look at the Kennedy center specifically, every president who has served didn't get monuments named for them until they were out of office. And if you say Washington to Lincoln to FDR to Reagan, like consequential presidents, whether you agree with them in the specifics of what they did, I think they felt they were building something better and that they were serving the American people. None of that interests Donald Trump. What has interested Donald Trump coming into office was what could he take out of it? How could he pat his ego and how could he pad his wallet? And in the Kennedy center, it is such a overt, like many recent things, but this particular act is such an overt effort on his part to associate himself with a president who served in a war. Donald Trump actively sought, I think five in all, deferrals, so he wouldn't have to serve in Vietnam. And a president who died in the service of this country, Donald Trump would never die in the service of anyone else, ever. But he wants to be associated with that. And now he's been denied that. And he's doing what toddlers do. He's Lashing out because he can't control the outcome.

[John Heilemann]

What opportunity I saw someone said, you know, you should broadcast the removal of his name from the. That there's already such a pent up desire to see the legal defeats restore some of these institutions. It feels like we're not at that part of the story yet. He still, to me, represents a pretty grave threat to our democracy. How do you view these legal defeats or legal setbacks?

[Chris Hayes]

Oh, absolutely, he's a threat. I mean, we are as a country in a zone of danger right now. Let's make no mistake about it. But at the same time, Donald Trump is a very weak and fragile person. It's why he projects strength all the time. It's why he wants to build all these monuments. It's what weak and fragile people do. If you're not strong and competent, if you need all these tangible illustrations of your power. When you're in the military, the toughest, strongest, most competent soldiers are usually the quiet ones, the quiet professionals. It's in fact the mantra of special operations. You don't talk about it. You don't have to pound your chest or prove anything to anybody else. So he's weak, and I think the weaker and more fragile he gets, actually the more dangerous he'll get. So we need to be more vigilant, but our first step needs to be to deliver. For folks, elections are about contrast. Governing is about a contrast. And we're trying to build a coalition right now. So what we have to do if we get into power, if the American people give us this opportunity, is to show that we are going to be relentlessly focused on their needs. Let's lower costs, let's end this reckless war in Iran. Let's actually protect our military and our service members. Let's work towards balancing the budget. And that will speak stronger than anything else that removes the name of Donald Trump. Although we will do that.

[John Heilemann]

You do that like on a weekend. Claire, what opportunities do you see right now for Democrats?

[Claire McCaskill]

Oh, I think there's a lot. Yeah. Everybody needs to stay focused on what Jason just was referring to and what we talked about at the top of the hour. We need to do what Ossoff did in that speech. It has to be about you, not about the Democrats. Frankly, the Democrats aren't very. Neither party is very popular right now.

[John Heilemann]

For totally different reasons, though, right?

[Claire McCaskill]

No, I think for totally different reasons, but also for the same reason, and that is dysfunction. Most people are not paying close attention to everything. They just know nothing's working right. And they know they're beginning to figure out that Donald Trump is, you know, a con man and somebody who's good at marketing and not much else. But if we don't make it about them instead of us or even him, we will make a big mistake. And the discipline of doing that is hard because a lot of the base wants nothing more than red meat about how Donald Trump sucks. And so you've got to have enough discipline to stay on that message about the health insurance costs, about rural hospitals closing, about input costs for farmers.

[John Heilemann]

He sucks at gas prices. How's that?

[Claire McCaskill]

He sucks at gas prices, all of that. But if we have that discipline, I think we have an opportunity to have an election that is going to be striking in the results that could occur.

[John Heilemann]

Yeah. It also feels like the debate of eight years ago, is it democracy or the economy? Feels like it is. And people now see that anti Democratic practices where you don't listen to the electorate destroy an economy. And those Trump today, I think, pardoned one of the pardoned election deniers in Colorado. We want to ask you about her, Tina Peters. That's next. Don't go anywhere. Well, I'll be right back. We're all back. Congressman, tell me your thoughts about Tina Peters, the election denier, who your governor, Democratic governor, commuted, I believe, her sentence. She's now doing the MAGA circuits and it seems sort of inexplicable.

[Chris Hayes]

Well, terrible decision. And everybody, I think, could have told you that. Right. This is playing out exactly like I thought it was going to play out, instead of it being some act of contrition and this woman gets out, she's a convicted felon, was convicted by a jury of her peers, election denialism, violated our election laws, has never shown any contrition. So she's now out of prison and is on the circuit doubling down on election denialism. I think the broader point, though, is the danger that we're going into right now, sending a message that appeasement, or trying to send a message that appeasement will in some way help a state or a community, sends exactly the wrong message. The response to Trump has to be strength. It has to be showing that you will fight for your country, fight for your state, for your community, and you will not tolerate abuse. That's how you deal with bullies. And any notion that appeasement or satisfying him will work has not been shown for the last 10 years. Anybody that's ever appeased Donald Trump has been crushed ultimately.

[John Heilemann]

Absolutely. I mean, I think that's the lesson of the Cornyn defeat of The Cassidy defeat. It's the story of the Republican Party. They have for. I used to have on my encrypted apps all sorts of senators who would, when the cameras were on them, say, oh, yeah, I'm for Donald Trump, and then text, oh, keep swinging. Oh, we're trying. We're working behind the scenes. Some of them aren't there anymore. Actually, most of them aren't there anymore. None of them text me anymore, because they have all tried to appease him and either been humiliated, run out of office, run out of town, or all of the above.

[Tim O'Brien]

And, you know, jumping on the Trump train is a dangerous ride because ultimately, he's going to betray you or take advantage of you and you will degrade your own reputation and your own legacy. And, you know, I think one of the ongoing lessons of the Trump era is how easily our institutions and our public authorities and the political class can be bent to one person's will. And I think a big factor in all of that is a lack of steel, moral and ethical and intellectual steel. You know, when Claire was mentioning in an earlier block, the insularity of Washington, and once you get your hands on those wheels of power, you want to retain it. I still find some of that a mystery. You know, we have two great public servants at this table. There's a number in the Republican Party who I don't think of. I don't think of as public servants. I think of them as people who enjoy holding on to power. And once you fall into that trap that you love the office and its trappings, which members of both parties do, somebody like Trump walks into the room, and you're owned. And you're owned till the end of your days. And you're owned in the history books, and you're owned in newspaper columns. And it may feel okay in the short term to get a little win that might edge you closer to power in the Oval Office, but at the end of the day, it's a trap.

[John Heilemann]

Yeah. And it's not even a ride. It's a chute. Right. Chutes and ladders. It's all chutes, Claire. You get the last word.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah. Well, I'd just like to say to all of my former colleagues that are still there, come on out. It's fine out here. I feel guilty. I'm so happy. I did it for 40 years. I couldn't be happier. Now there is a life outside of that place, and if you would keep that in your sights, then maybe it would give you a little more courage to stand up and do the right thing because once you get out, it feels a lot better that you tried to do the right thing when you were there. A lot of regrets.

[John Heilemann]

You don't have to walk around explaining why you voted for Hegseth or the bozo with the brain worm. I also think fighting with him has a lot of drawbacks, but a lot of benefits. I mean, you and Alyssa Slotkin and Mark Kelly and the others who stood up to him have prevailed at every round. And it may not be pleasant all the time, but you have won every legal and political contests so far.

[Chris Hayes]

Courage is contagious and it's spreading around this country like wildfire right now.

[John Heilemann]

It sure is. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Tim O', Brien, Congressman Jason Crow and Claire McCaskill. We thank all three of you for being at the table with us. When we come back, finding humor and an autocrat that just won't quit. Autocrating. The next hour of deadline White House starts after a quick break with that story.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thursday, june 25th. Join rachel maddow and allie velshi in philadelphia for a dynamic evening. Ms. Now live presents we the people america 250. Get tickets at Ms. Now america 250. Today.