← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Trump’s behavior is getting weirder”
00:41:16
Earlier today, Trump took to his social media site Truth Social, posting 12 times in less than an hour and a half.
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
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Nicole Wallace
Shortly after joining Indiana Kurt. Who's Kurt? Kurt Signetti. Where is Kurt Signetti?
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Chris Hayes
Right here.
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Nicole Wallace
Huh?
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Bobby Roth
Oh, come here.
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Nicole Wallace
Come here, Kurt Signetti.
- [01:13]
Hi again everybody. Nothing says America is back. Our president is fine. Like a president who doesn't know who's standing next to him. That bizarre episode with the national champion Indiana Hoosiers football team came one day ahead of Donald Trump's really important, high stakes trip to China. Donald Trump has never really been known for logical or cogent conduct in public, something his defenders claim is part of his madman appeal. But in Trump 2.0, that erratic behavior, that madman Persona is getting a lot weirder and a lot more frequent and a lot more public. Our allies and adversaries alike are beginning to take notice. Case in point, earlier today, Donald Trump took to his social media site truth social, posting 12 times in less than one hour and a half, including this particularly bizarre post, Trump posted, quote, democrats love sewage with an AI generated image of former President Barack Obama, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former President Joe Biden, three people who are no longer in office. They were in a pool of sewage in the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool. Donald Trump has a total fixation with painting the reflecting pool bright blue. It's a fixation which has led cost to skyrocket. Like he didn't just say, well, paint it and I'm going to go back to leading the country at war or fixing the economy. He's obsessed with the paint color and talking about the painting project. He's obsessed with that. While Americans are souring on another one of Donald Trump's pet DC Construction vanity projects, New York Times is reporting that the repairs to the reflecting pool have ballooned in cost past Donald Trump's initial estimate of $1.8 million. They are now projected to cost the American taxpayer $13.1 million, more than seven fold increase in a paint job. While Trump is posting away on Truth Social about painting projects and construction projects and obsessing with remaking Washington, D.C. in his image, no matter the cost to the taxpayer, he continues to turn his back on governing and on the issues that his own voters sent him to the White House to deal with. Things like the high cost of, well, everything. Today we learned that the inflation rate skyrocketed at its fastest rate in three years as sharp increases in energy costs caused by Donald Trump's war in Iran drove up prices for American consumers. Donald Trump's obsession with his golden ballroom and bright blue painted reflecting pool as Americans struggle to pay their bills is intended, we suppose, into turning him into some, I don't know, great renovator or political figure in America's story. The new reporting suggests it is actually having the opposite effect. New York Times reports this quote, for decades, many Chinese viewed the United States with a mix of admiration, envy and resentment. Trump's ascent and his volatile second term have shattered that image. In January, a nationalistic Beijing think tank published a triumphant report about Trump's first year back in office. The report argued that Trump's tariffs, his attacks on our allies, anti immigration policies and assaults on the American political establishment had inadvertently strengthened China and weaken the United States. Its title, quote, thank Trump. The report called Trump, quote, an accelerator of American political decay with the United States sliding toward polarization, institutional dysfunction, and even, quote, Latin American style instability. At this turning point in history, the authors wrote, what we hear is the heavy and haunting toll of an empire's evening bell. Donald Trump tolling the bell for American decline post by post by post in the middle of the night on his obscure social media site is where we start the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. New York Times reporter Michael Crowley is here. Also joining us, Media Matters for America President Angelo Carazone is back. Also joining us, political analyst, the former Senator Claire McCaskill is here. Michael Crowley, China welcomes the United States of America in a position of truly unparalleled and unprecedented strength. How do we as a country deal with that? And how do you as a journalist tell that story without getting attacked or investigated or prosecuted or persecuted by Donald Trump?
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Michael Crowley
Well, Nicole, of course, we just try to tell the story as accurately and fairly as we can. This is one that is not convenient for this president. And, you know, unfortunately for the United States of America, President Trump does arrive in Beijing at a moment of really unusual weakness because of this standoff he is in with, you know, a country that is far from a global superpower. I mean, we are really tied down here by Iran in a way that I think that the President was not expecting. And I suspect that he finds it extremely frustrating and embarrassing. And it's possible that that helps to explain that explosion of somewhat or more than somewhat erratic tweets last night. I have, you know, it seems quite likely that he's headed to China with a lot of unhappiness about the situation that he's in. And, you know, this does, as you suggested, I think, confirm a thesis that Xi Jinping and many Chinese elites have had for years now, which is that the United States and the west are in a state of decline, that our political systems are broken, that we've been squandering blood and treasure in overseas conflicts that have resulted in making us weaker and not stronger. And many American adversaries like Vladimir Putin and of course, including Xi Jinping, and by the way, Iran's leadership, which certainly has its own worries, but not this one, they don't have to worry about democracy. They don't have to worry about elections, the midterms, the polls. They have to worry about revolutions that come and overthrow them, and if they lose, they die. So the outcome is worse. But their ability to hold power has been pretty effective and resilient. So Xi Jinping's not going anywhere anytime soon. But he looks at President Trump knowing that the Constitution prevents him from running for office again. We'll see whether Trump tries to ignore that or not. But certainly he cares about the midterm elections and the plight of Republicans. So Xi Jinping knows that he has that leverage as well. And he also knows that the Iranians have that leverage over President Trump, that they have time. It doesn't look like there's gonna be a revolution. There definitely are gonna be midterm elections. That all adds up to a very difficult visit for this president.
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Nicole Wallace
I mean, the irony, Michael Crowley, is that the thing that's making Donald Trump unpopular is that he's acting like he is the leader of a different country, a different system of governance. It is the anti democratic conduct that has driven his approval ratings down to where are they? 30%, the lowest they've been since he entered the political arena. And his autocratic ambitions to build monuments to himself are leading to an approval rating that is really Almost unprecedented globally. What is your reporting on whether anyone is trying to stop the political death spiral?
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Michael Crowley
Well, you know, I don't want to call it Shakespearean. It's overused and probably exaggerated. But I do think that there's a quality here that's maybe literary or cinematic, which is that, you know, President Trump, I think, felt like he was on such a role. It wasn't that long ago, Nicole. In February, he had taken out Nicolas Maduro, with whom the US had battled for many, many years, relatively painlessly. He was squeezing Cuba, and I think thought that he was gonna be able to bring down the Cuban government very quickly. The previous year, the US had conducted very surgical and effective airstrikes on Iran's nuclear program. Of course, we know they didn't completely destroy the program as was claimed, but they quite impressive. And it appears that President Trump was just flush with his sense of power and almost a kind of, certainly on the global stage, a feeling of almost omnipotence, I think. And so he appears to have disregarded warnings that going to war with Iran would be more complicated than he expected and accepted predictions that Iran's regime would quickly fall apart and whoever came after would settle for peace or be some friend of the United States. So that is the peril of power. He was exercising his power very broadly, and it wound up burning him when he overreached.
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Nicole Wallace
Claire McCaskill we know from a lot of reporting from Michael's news organization and others that the thing that drives Trump almost more than anything else is fear of humiliation, fear of being mocked, fear of not being loved. Here's how King Charles returned home to the UK and talked about the visit. This is an exchange with Rod Stewart and King Charles.
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May I say, well done in the Americans.
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Dominic Patton
He was superb, absolutely superb.
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Nicole Wallace
Put that little black bag in his face.
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A chuckle there and again. It's a little moment, but King Charles chuckling with Rod Stewart after Rod Stewart says, you put that little rat bag in his place. And Charles doesn't come to his defense, doesn't say anything, just laughs. Seems like exactly the sort of thing that would rise to the top of his list of perceived offenses.
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Angelo Carusone
Yeah, I don't get what's going on around him. You know, there's his children. I mean, where is Ivanka? Susie Wiles, JD Vance, Marco Rubio when he goes on these trips, when Ivanka
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Nicole Wallace
is buying airplanes, that they're billions of dollars. I mean, Jared Kushner got $2 billion with a B from the SAD. I mean, where's Ivanka? She's spending all the money that her husband, who's playing top diplomat, got from the Middle east governments that we're negotiating with, they're all in on it.
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Angelo Carusone
Listen, no question that the corruption of the Trump family is unprecedented in our country's history. My point is, though, that she could talk to her father. Susie Wiles is the chief of staff. She's the first woman chief of staff in the United States of America. And I have never seen a more impotent chief of staff. I have never seen somebody so without any ability to set an agenda or execute an agenda and to tell the principal, to tell the president, you're hurting yourself, does he really think him posting this nonsense till 2, 3, 4 in the morning and then starting again the next day, does he really think that's making him look strong? Does he really believe that? And if he does, we've got a much, much bigger problem. We've got a man who is so out of it, he shouldn't be anywhere near a decision making process for the use of, of the most powerful military in the world. Shouldn't be anywhere near it. So it is fascinating to me. And by the way, shouldn't J.D. vance and Marco Rubio, who want to run for president, shouldn't somebody be asking them, is this okay for the president? Is this what you're down for? Because I think in many ways that disqualifies them with at least 50% of America. Because I gotta tell you, Nicole, not only do they disapprove of Donald Trump, right now, the majority of America is embarrassed by Donald Trump. And if he really would take that in and digest it, then he would understand what true humiliation looks like.
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Nicole Wallace
So, Angelo, I'm going to platform some of Donald Trump's posts because people should know. Chris Hayes made this brilliant point on my podcast this week that in some ways, getting kicked off Twitter really aided Trump because no one's on Truth Social. And so he's posting all night at a frequency at a pace at a rate that if any other person in any other industry in sports or entertainment or academia or business, Jamie Dimon posted 30 times on Instagram or anywhere CNBC would be up in the morning with all their shows talking about his erratic pace, regardless of the content. Now, if the content were anything like this, they'd be talking about succession planning for the bank. Let me read what Trump wrote on Truth Social in response to the New York Times reporting about the costs of this paint job that he's obsessed with. And this is condensed, which is a bit of a disservice because it doesn't capture how truly unhinged the actual post was. But the actual post was 402 words. Here are some of them. Quote Obama and Biden. They made the reflecting pool worse, keeping it closed for years and ending up with a leaking smelling ode to both of their failed administrations. It was an embarrassment to Washington D.C. and to our country itself. Despite the vast sums of money spent, they never got the pool to work and cosmetically, it was a total mess for all to see. Now along comes Trump. He refers to himself in the third person and capitalizes his own name. Who is asked by many patriots if I can fix it? The answer is a resounding yes. And for a tiny fraction of the cost. This is not just a paint job. Like lowlife reporter David Farenthalt of the New York Times so inaccurately and maliciously stated, it is a deeply complicated work of smart and beautiful construction. It won't leak. It will shine and be the pride of Washington D.C. for decades to come. Now, in disclosure, I worked for a president who did build something. He built a T ball field on the South Lawn of the White House. But he was not involved in the construction, the measurements, the painting, or posting about any of the cost overruns. I mean, this is truly insane behavior. No matter who you voted for, no matter what you think of Donald Trump, it is insane that he spends all night posting about President Obama's stewardship of the paint job on the reflecting pool.
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Chris Hayes
Yeah, there's a few things to point out here. One, I think, Chris, point is very well taken that it's him being sort of isolated in this sort of platform that isn't as connected to the day to day news cycles in some ways helps give him a pass. I also think that some of the stuff that you were talking about in your back and forth exchange with Michael Crowley, it shows the environment that we're living in. I mean even your question when you were saying, well, how do you avoid getting blowback from the President? I mean, it's already inside people's heads. He has created this culture and this dynamic where he's constantly working the refs and newsrooms and new news outlets have to think about, gosh, is, is the cost of dealing with, of saying this and talking about this worth the consequences that could come my way? And, and that, that is part of the calculus. And his behavior is that you just, you work the refs and you know, eventually you get them to shift their coverage a little bit. So him being isolated does give him a pass. It Also means he's more disconnected from the zeitgeist. You know, he is not seeing that, you know, what's, you know, he's not connected to the part of even his base that he used to be connected to in his first term. And then when he was, you know, even when he was out of office, it's got a little bit more separated because he wasn't on the platform anymore. That, that hurts him. So it cuts both ways. But I think, as you noted, it is insane stuff. It's ridiculous stuff. And it is, you know, it ties in not just with how he operates. I don't think this is always some fourth dimensional chess that. I think he gets too much credit there. I think it's a guy that can't control his feelings.
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Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
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Chris Hayes
I think it's a guy that's upset and he's having a really difficult time with his feelings and reality. And he's venting as a, as a consequence of that. I don't think it's purely about working the refs. He's in a space where he gets to just, you know, look at AI generated images and help supplant the, you know, that makes it, that forms a new reality in his brain on both ends. This is how, you know, this is what we really think of Democrats. This is what I really think of myself. Right. And that is one of the benefits, why he seems, why he seems to love it. So that is the takeaways here. We're not really talking enough about just how unhinged and dangerous he is. There's all these through lines corruption that we've, you know, that are playing out day to day and all these little side projects. The fact that he's spending more time focused on the side projects than being President of the United States, that's, that's a real consequence. And then the erraticness. And this is where I think it all ties together. You know, capitalists and capitalism. One of the things that works so well for America was that, that our system, our economic system benefited from our governance, from the ST and everything that is happening now in our society. And Trump is just the perfect avatar for that. And also one of the drivers of more instability is reflected in these tweets. They don't have to scramble for some archaic policy change that's happened. They just have to open up their computers or phones in the morning and see the instability and sort of this wild swirling top that America has become. In the latest screed from Donald Trump's post. So I don't think they're just insignificant, that should be pushed to the side. They are part of the story of the economic issues that we're dealing with and the corruption that we're dealing with and then our place and position in the world. They all sort of tie in to how Trump is sort of interacting. And it's, it's, it's sort of this feelings based, it cuts both ways. When the vibes are great, it's great for him and his people. When the vibes are bad, you get this.
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Nicole Wallace
I'm going to take your note and show people more of his unhinged conduct. I have to sneak in a quick break before I do that. There are a couple of pieces of sound that bring that into sharp focus. Much more to get to with everybody on Trump's bizarre conduct and what it reflects to the rest of the world about us right now. Also ahead, courage is also contagious. And speaking out courageously about our country and how to save democracy has become the most critical mission of our time. Filmmaker Bobby Roth has interviewed dozens of people, many of them familiar faces to viewers of this program for his new film Lightworkers. He will be our guest later in the hour. You don't want to miss that. And speaking of standing up to Trump, no one has done it more consistently and with more humor than the late night comedy host. They joined forces last night on Stephen Colbert Show. We'll show you how that played Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
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- [20:46]
Angelo Carusone
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- [21:12]
Michael Crowley
Simone Sanders Townsend and I have known
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Dominic Patton
each other for more than a decade,
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Nicole Wallace
tussling over politics and policy when she
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Dominic Patton
worked in the White House. And I reported on it. And now we're friends and colleagues. And on our podcast, Clock it, we
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Nicole Wallace
are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
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Michael Crowley
Clock it is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news. So you can start to clock it, too.
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Narrator/Announcer
Clock it with Simone and Eugene. All episodes available now.
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Nicole Wallace
So what happened is we have a ballroom that's under budget. It's going up Right here. I've doubled the size of it because we obviously need that and we're right now on budget, under budget and ahead of schedule. I doubled the size of it. You dumb person. You are not a smart person.
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So let's just put a pin, Michael Crowley, in the, in the substance. It's on budget. It's both on budget and under budget. It's been doubled in size because we obviously need that. There's nothing obvious about needing a double sized ballroom at the White House. It's functioned just fine with that one. But just this sentence, you dumb person and you are not a smart person. It's just not how anyone, I mean, what, what is the reporting on these exchanges? What do you, what do you learn about what is behind them, what comes after them? Do the journalists sort of do anything to stand up for one another after Hooper rates what is once again a female reporter?
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Michael Crowley
Well, Nicole, you know, there's not a lot of collective pushback and I'm not faulting the reporters who were there. It's very difficult when it's the President of the United States. And you know, talked a little bit earlier about the consequences for reporters. I mean, the reporters that I know, particularly the New York Times, report really without a lot of concern about backlash or being targeted because, you know, a great story is the, is the greatest motivator. And in some cases, by the way, you know, calling David Fahrenholt a lowlife, I mean, I think I saw him at the coffee machine today. He is like the most cheerful, smiling, good hearted guy I can think of. And also when he's attacked that way, it's elevating his reporting. I mean, I would wager that a bunch of your viewers might not have been familiar with his reporting on this and now they are. So there's a way in which up to a point, the backlash actually is doing us a favor. But I think it's really hard to stand up to the President in those situations and particularly those gaggles he has. It's almost like a mob scene where everyone is shouting all at once. So even if there was an attempt to have some solidarity and challenge the President and when he's making a factual assertion that's wrong and to back up a reporter, there are just so many people there shouting. You've got the helicopter noise. It's just a practically very difficult thing. But you know, it's worth just to zoom out and I'll wrap up. It's worth focusing on those moments because I think we have sometimes take for granted that Our president talks this way in a way that really no other president in history, at least in modern history, ever has. And we've become kind of inured to it, but it's just wildly beyond the norm. And it just, I think, strikes a huge number of Americans as really inappropriate and doesn't do him any favors, I think, with the broader electorate. I think some of his supporters really love it, of course, but he's frustrated right now, and he's headed to an awkward trip and meeting with Xi Jinping. So I think that's just another way, as we've discussed in this show, he might be showing his frustration.
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Nicole Wallace
Claire, I want to show you something else he said out loud. I think we used to, in 1.0, call this the quiet part. This is the whole part. Trump's indifference to the American people who are struggling with Trump's economy. To what extent are American financial situations
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Michael Crowley
motivating you to make a deal?
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Nicole Wallace
Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody.
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I mean, it was clear. But to hear him say it out loud, I don't think about American's financial situation, I don't think about anybody. Is confirmation of what we're seeing, which has the political impact of driving down his approval rating on the economy. He's now got a 70% disapproval rating on the economy, and close to 70% of Americans believe that, quote, a recession is likely next year. Yeah.
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Angelo Carusone
And our adversaries around the globe see this. I mean, the idea that he's going to China right now in this greatly weakened state, he has not been able to do anything in terms of bringing the conflict in Ukraine to a close. That has turned out to be a sustained embarrassment for Putin, his buddy, the one he sees as somebody he'd like to emulate in terms of his power and how he holds his power. And then this thing with Iran where he thought this was going to go in like a video game and take care of things, and he was going to be a hero. He is feeling the diminishment of his power, and when he feels that, he acts even more erratically. And it will be fascinating because Chi is incredibly disciplined as a leader. I think the experts on China will tell you that one of the reasons he's been able to hold power as long as he has is his discipline. Well, he's going to be across the table from the most undisciplined world leader ever and somebody who thinks they know how to negotiate. But clearly he has not been able to negotiate anything that really matters, whether it's trade deals, whether it's the budget, whether it's all these wars that he's gotten involved in. His negotiation power has not been good. He can't even negotiate the right price on the damn reflecting pool that he's so obsessed with. So I don't think he is in a strong position. And I think that's one of the reasons you see him acting the way he is so erratically, because he feels it is bumped.
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Nicole Wallace
Angela, you got the last word. How do you see this moment and what are you looking for on this trip?
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Chris Hayes
I mean, he posted a picture of himself on the $100 bill. I mean, he's totally not focused on the right things, and he's just totally not. And so the trip is going to be an embarrassment. And I think the part that scares me the most is like, in the long run here, he's going to think it's a giant success. But if the midterms go as best as they could and Democrats get more power, Trump's then going to be retreated to being more focused on international in the international arena. That's where his legacy is going to ultimately be defined, and that's where he's going to have the least checks on his power. And that means that he's going to be able to give more over to China or be more subject to their sort of manipulations and wills. And in a way, our position in the world will decline even faster. And that's why it ties all in with how he's day to day operating. Because I don't think this is going to go well and I think it's going to give us a keyhole view into just how much they're going to run circles around us in the years ahead.
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Nicole Wallace
Angelo, Michael and Clara, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. When we come back, it may be the single biggest question people are asking right now about our democracy as it is constantly under assault by Donald Trump. What can we do about that? The new film Lightworkers aims to answer that very question. And the filmmaker who made it will be our guest after a very short break. Don't go anywhere.
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Narrator/Announcer
Sunday, June 14, from Washington, DC, a special live taping of Ms. Now's hit podcast the Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Join her as she talks with actor and author Billy Eichner. They'll explore the power of humor in the face of adversity and Eichner's new audio memoir, Billy on Billy the Blueprint with Jen Psaki live with Billy Eichner. Get your tickets today at 6th and I.org.
- [29:50]
Nicole Wallace
A powerful new film seeks to confront the darkness currently facing American democracy and the rule of law and basic norms and decency, and counters it with light and inspiration that proves that courage can be contagious. The film is called Lightworkers. It is written, directed and produced by our next guest, Bobby Roth. And it's driven by dozens of wide ranging and diverse voices who Roth says in their own way, cast a light forward in the film. Each of them are posed with questions, what can we do? Here is some of what they said, including a lot of familiar faces. To viewers of this program watching, we
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Dominic Patton
do people a disservice when we make it seem that, well, if you feel afraid, you can't act with courage because you can. And that can help to impel you to move forward.
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Nicole Wallace
Changing your opinion is a critical aspect
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Bobby Roth
of being an adult, and that's uncomfortable.
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Chris Hayes
It requires you to say, damn, I was wrong before.
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Nicole Wallace
Don't just speak the truth once, because people are speaking the lies over and over and over.
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Narrator/Announcer
Every song of justice sung is a beacon of light in this gathering darkness that provides its hope in gathering hopelessness. So don't stop singing. Don't stop doing art.
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Nicole Wallace
The hardest thing about kind of standing
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Bobby Roth
alone and saying the tough thing is
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Nicole Wallace
the very first time you do it,
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Michael Crowley
once you make that, it becomes easier.
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Nicole Wallace
I just, I want to bring in the director of Lightworkers, Bobby Roth. Also joining our conversation, executive editor of deadline.com, dominic Patton. Bobby, thank you for being here. You sent me the film. I watched the trailer. I immediately clicked on the film and watched about 45 minutes of it and then had to feed my kids and put them to bed. But I woke up the next morning and finished it. If you have a taste of this collection of hope and reality and truth, you really can't get enough of it. Just tell me what made you want to make this.
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Bobby Roth
Like most of us, I've been very troubled by what's been going on in our country. The loss of our rights, the loss of democracy. And I was trying to think, what can I do? And given that I've spent my life making movies, I thought the best thing to do would try to be to make a picture that inspires people to stand up for democracy.
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Nicole Wallace
And what is it feels intentional to have Tom Morello and Adam Kinzinger and every voice in between anywhere on the ideological spectrum.
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Bobby Roth
Yeah. I thought one of the bigger problems in the last election was that you've heard that expression, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. I thought a lot of people either didn't vote or voted in a protest way, rather than thinking of ourselves as a big tent and including people who were basically like us, but maybe had slight differences. So I was interested in finding people as diverse as David Hogg and David
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Nicole Wallace
Brooks.
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Bobby Roth
Thank you. No, that I wanted conservative people, I wanted moderate people and I wanted Republicans and I wanted Democrats. And I was lucky because I was just lucky. There's so many people wanted. So many people want to stand up for this country that it was surprisingly easy to get people I didn't know to participate.
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Nicole Wallace
Dominic, let me bring you in because I feel like you and I have gone around and around and around on where is the industry, where is art, where is culture? And people know that I say this all the time. Bruce Springsteen is out there saving the country. I saw him last night at Madison Square Garden. Let me play for everyone, something I played multiple times, but because I saw it with my own eyes last night, this is how he starts his shows on this tour, the Hope and Dreams tour.
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Our democracy, our constitution, our rule of law are being challenged right now as never before by a reckless, racist, incompetent, treasonous president. And his super fools administration. So tonight, we ask all of you to join with us in choosing hope over fear, democracy over authoritarianism, the rule of law over lawlessness, ethics over unbridled corruption, resistance over complacency, truth over lies, unity over division and peace over.
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So, Dominic, the point art has entered the chat and it is not. It is taking no prisoners. It is welcoming everybody in. To me, the hallmark of the film is that it literally transverse crosses the entire previously, I think, accepted ideological parameters to deliver the same message that, yes, what you're seeing is really happening. Democracy is under assault. And yes, we get up every day, whether we're afraid, whether it feels hopeless, and we fight to protect it because that's the most patriotic thing we can do.
- [35:37]
Dominic Patton
Well, look, two things, Nicole. First of all, preach, brother Bruce. Preach, brother Bruce. Now, I will say my nephew Jackson Beale was actually at that show last night and I hope that it was a learning experience for his young ears and eyes. But I also say too, I think, to what Bobby's done is, you know, in the background here I have a piece by Shepard Fairey, who's in the film. You know, the Fonz is in the film, the great Tom Morello, who plays with Bruce often is in the film. And I think that this diversity of ideas, a diversity of voices. Look, democracy is messy. We all think that we agree on some things and then we discover the things we disagree on and then we discover the things we agree on. And what's happening in this country right now, culturally, politically and in every way possible, is an attack on all of that. You don't have to always like your neighbor, you don't always have to love your neighbor. But the notion of, of America and this notion of a perfect union we're striving towards is a part of who we are. And the people who are running this country like an oligarchy and like a burnt out Hungary, which by the way, we all know how that ended up. They might think different. And that's where we're at right now. So I think going forward, we're going to look at films like this and we're going to see like that was the voice of resistance. Because I think for many of us, Nicole, and I hope both of you agree with this. There is a little bit of like, you have to look your children in the eye and say, well, what did you do?
- [36:55]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the other thing is, to anyone who's skeptical right now, Mike Pence and Bruce Springsteen are on the same side of the democracy question. In the same way that in the film Bobby, Adam Kinzinger and every activist that may have never thought they'd find themselves in the trench with David Brooks or Adam Kinzinger is on the same side. Tell me how people watch this, how people take this in and share it.
- [37:21]
Dominic Patton
Well, if you look at it, I think.
- [37:23]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, sorry, Dominic, let me bring Bobby in one more time.
- [37:25]
Dominic Patton
Oh, sorry.
- [37:27]
Bobby Roth
No, I was just going to say that the idea of the movie was to inspire people to do something. And I think one of the things that I like most about Tom Murillo and some of the people who live their lives in pure activism is they're very sympathetic to how difficult it is for some people to act at all. And basically the movie asks you to do one thing first. You have to vote and then find anything you can do. And it acknowledges that there are setbacks and that we've had struggles like this before, but we always come out of it. But it's not easy. And sometimes we take one step forward and two steps back. But the main thing is to make a connection with other people. And that's why I've asked people this myself, is that I participate in no Kings day and I see 8 million people. I don't see a MAGA. 8 million people. I don't see a demonstration at all for the other side. And I think that one of the things that the movie taught me is how many of us there are and how together. Much more together than I thought we are.
- [38:41]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, it's such an interesting point because it's in the polls and so you have the empirical, the numbers. But it doesn't always feel that way because of the way MAGA roll. They roll like they're the side at 65%, not the side at 33%. I have to sneak in a break. We'll all be back on the other side with this conversation. Don't go anywhere.
- [39:05]
Michael Crowley
When I got knocked off the air
- [39:06]
Narrator/Announcer
for a few days, people than people
- [39:12]
Chris Hayes
press the hi hat.
- [39:13]
Nicole Wallace
People canceled.
- [39:15]
Chris Hayes
People canceled Disney.
- [39:17]
Narrator/Announcer
Why isn't, why,
- [39:24]
Nicole Wallace
why aren't you people canceling Paramount plus because you didn't have it in the first place.
- [39:28]
Chris Hayes
Well, if I would make my case
- [39:30]
Nicole Wallace
for late night, it's that, you know,
- [39:32]
Chris Hayes
we'd like leaders of the free world are watching it when it airs.
- [39:37]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, there's that. The giants of late night television came together last night in an act of solidarity and community and a clear show of support for Stephen Colbert. His criticism and jokes about Donald Trump and his administration have made him a frequent target of the president. Paramount and CBS will air the last episode of the Late show with Stephen Colbert next Thursday. We're back with Bobby and Dominic. Dominic, this is sort of a super sized version of what Bobby's talking about. This is artists who have been, I'm sure at different moments they or their families have been anxious about all the incoming from Trump and his allies. But they have gone out night after night and done what they do. They have done their part to make us laugh, to speak truth to power, and to see them sort of together going out swinging is affirming.
- [40:29]
Dominic Patton
Yes. And also Nicole, of course. I'll say that right now on stage at the Javits center, just down the road from you, Jimmy Kimmel is on stage doing his annual roast at the Disney upfronts, talking about how he cost his company billions of dollars this year and it might have been hiring him was one of the worst decisions Disney ever made. Sarcasm, Sarcasm. You know, I think to that very point. Here is what we're talking about is in times like this, art becomes the medium of discussion. Art becomes where politics fail. It's like the world's end in many senses. And you see it with the Late night hosts who got their moments up and down and then people pitch movies and everything else. But there's a point here, I think. You take some Kimmel, you take some Colbert, you take some Tom Morello, you take some of Bobby's film, you take some Shepard fairy, you thr all that together and you have and you throw in a lot more and you have America. And that's what this really is. This is the voice of America, which I shouldn't really say cuz they've cut the funding for that, but this is the voice of America really speaking. And often it's pretty funny.
- [41:28]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Bobby, I keep thinking that the person who understands this better than anyone is actually Donald Trump, who covets the approval of the late night host who is obsessed with attacks from artists, who understands and criticizes and seeks to chill art and artists because he of all people understands the power.
- [41:47]
Bobby Roth
Yeah, I think subconsciously that led me to leaving him out of the movie. Speak in the movie. None of his people speak in the movie. I mean, I thought it was time for us to speak and my task was just to try to coordinate all the voices from the people that we got to show up for us.
- [42:09]
Nicole Wallace
Bobby, let me tell people how they can see the movie. It's@lightworkersdoc.com I hope with both of you this is a conversation to be continued. Thank you both for joining me today. There is remarkable breaking news to tell you about in the New York Times about the war in Iran and how Donald Trump's assessment of it does not match his own intelligence community's assessment. We'll bring you that story after a short break. There's stunning new reporting breaking in the New York Times a few moments ago regarding a now massive gap between what team Trump says they have accomplished in the war with Iran and what Trump's intelligence community is saying has been accomplished. New York Times reporting that according to classified assessments from early this month, quote, Iran has regained access to most of its missile sites, launchers and underground facilities. Most alarming to some senior officials is evidence that Iran has restored operational access to 30 of the 33 missile sites it maintains along the Strait of Hormuz. When asked about the assessment, a White House spokesperson repeated Donald Trump's claim that Iran's military has been, quote, crushed. We'll stay on top of that story all week long. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.
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