← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Trump’s shakedown of epic proportions”
00:42:59
July 31, 2026; 5pm: Nicolle Wallace and friends discuss the Wall Street Journal’s stunning new report about the Trump administration’s massive level of fundraising and how private companies yield to his requests.
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- [00:00]
Paramount Promo Announcer
This isn't the end of a fight. It's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from Taylor Sheridan, returns August 2nd only on Paramount. In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives and personal betrayals collide while Joe walks the line between duty and family. Don't miss Lioness, starring Zoe Saldana, Michael Kelly. With Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman. Streaming August 2nd only on Paramount.
- [00:29]
Disclosure Day Promo Announcer
Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg, from a screenplay by David Koepp, starring Emily Blunt, Josh o', Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson and Colman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required. Also in theaters.
- [01:05]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you so much for getting us all together. And thank you for being such a pro business, pro innovation president. Well, thanks for hosting us.
- [01:12]
And this is quite a group to get together.
- [01:13]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
It's incredible to be among everyone here, particularly you and the first lady,
- [01:21]
Nicole Wallace
America's oligarchs. Hi again, everybody. It's now five o' clock in the East. If you're around Donald Trump, you know by now that flattery will get you just about everywhere you want to go. Administration officials know it as well. So do lawmakers, and even CEOs now know it. When it comes to those CEOs and their businesses, Trump uses his leverage as leader of our country for something a lot more than just flattery. He's raking in money. Brand new blockbuster reporting in the Wall Street Journal reveals the scope of that shakedown and the epic proportions it's taking an inside look into the massive level of fundraising Trump has been doing and all the private companies giving and giving and giving at Trump's request. The Journal's report begins by mentioning Meredith o'.
- [02:08]
Norm Eisen
Rourke.
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Nicole Wallace
She's Trump's fundraiser, who he refers to as the, quote, princess of Darkness because she is a, quote, killer with donors. He calls her nearly every night from that story, quote, Trump asks o' Rourke which companies and donors have cut checks and which have not and for how much. He often asks her to make much larger financial requests than she was planning. For some donors, the ask is $5 million. For others it is $50 million. And the president gives her names to call, often including people who have recently met with him, according to people with knowledge of the calls. What o' Rourke says on those phone calls with companies sounds like something straight out of The Mafia, According to the Wall Street Journal reporting. She says, quote, this is very important to the president. He has asked me to call you and ask you for this donation. She persistently follows up with the companies. In some calls, she has referred to Trump as the boss, saying, quote, the boss wants this money, end quote. And apparently the boss is getting the money. The Journal provides some staggering numbers. Quote, SoftBank donated $50 million toward Donald Trump's presidential library. Apple cut a check for around $25 million toward his White House ballroom. Microsoft gave around $10 million and Amazon chipped in around $5 million, according to people familiar with the contributions. Meta platforms recently gave $10 million to a Trump aligned political committee. People familiar said on top of a multimillion dollar donation to the ballroom and a prior $22 million payment to the planned presidential library, it is an unprecedented amount of money that Trump is demanding and raising. The Journal estimates it at more than $800 million since Trump returned to office. And while an outside spokesperson for Trump and o' Rourke say that Trump can't be bought, what he's doing is reaching unheard of new levels. Quote, Trump stands out for taking personal control of the fundraising. And no sitting American president has ever raised these amounts for pet projects. At the same time, companies have paid new attention to the White House as Trump has gotten involved in regulatory decisions that once were made by independent agencies. Trump dramatically shifting the balance of power across Washington. The boss wanting and getting his money is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Chief political correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, Josh Dossey is here. Also joining us, Norm Eisen. He served as White House Special Counsel for Ethics under President Obama. He's now co founder of Democracy Defenders Action and publisher of the Contrarian. And with me for the hour, host of Politics Nation and president of the National Action Network. The Reverend Al Sharpton's here. Josh Dawsey, your byline is on this stunning. I wonder if you could take us through it.
- [04:53]
Josh Dawsey
Yeah, Nicole. We were trying for a while to understand the staggering scope of the president's fundraising operation. We were getting tips across the newsroom about different companies that had been asked for money, large sums of money that they were surprised to get such audacious ask for. We really wanted to understand what they were using the money for, how much they were raising it and maybe most importantly, how they were raising it. Right. How the actual apparatus worked. What we found was that there was a president who's deeply involved in the minutia of these requests, often asking Companies like Chevron for $50 million, other companies for 20, $25 million. Giving lobbyists direct ask for their clients to give. And tracking this with this fundraiser, Meredith o', Rourke, who he refers to jokingly as a princess of darkness because she's such a killer of donors. And what they've done is put together an operation really like we've never seen before. In Washington, all presidents raised money for midterms and for political committees. But the together a number of committees across the government for his ballroom, for other construction projects, his political committees. And he's actively raising money for all of them. And corporate America is giving in large, large amounts to a sitting president. One of the most interesting things we found was after the election, Meredith o', Rourke, his fundraiser, who we write about extensively in the piece, was planning to slow down operations for a bit. He had just won. He was a second term president. He wouldn't be running again on the ballot. And the president said, need to start raising money tomorrow. We should strike while the iron is hot. And so that's what we've seen happening for the last 18 months.
- [06:34]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Josh, you detail, I guess to borrow a term from the first term, quid pro quo. I mean, I just want to read some, some of the reporting. At a meeting with tobacco execs in May at Trump's golf club in Jupiter, Florida, the president promised to do much of what the executives wanted on policy related to vaping and the fda. He took in millions of dollars in contributions for his political committees. O' Rourke set in on the meeting. Shortly after the meeting, the FDA lifted restrictions on some flavored vaping products and the FDA's chief was gone.
- [07:05]
Josh Dawsey
Yeah, that was a big meeting in Florida. The lobbyists and the different executives from multiple tobacco companies running into Altria went down, met with the president, his Jupiter Club, they served burgers. President said, what can I do for you guys? And they told him that they didn't like a lot of, a lot of vaping regulations. They wanted things changed at the FDA. The president during the meeting called Robert F. Kennedy Jr. He called the FDA chief at the time, Marty McCary. Mr. Makary didn't answer. He called other aides and he eventually ordered in the meeting for changes to be made on vaping policy, for some other regulations to be loosened. And within about 10 days, the head of FDA, Mr. McCarry, had been ousted from his job.
- [07:52]
Nicole Wallace
Norm Eisen, is that legal?
- [07:56]
Norm Eisen
Nicole? The question of whether laws have been broken, civil or criminal, will occupy us as a nation for years to come. It's definitely corruption abusing entrusted power for Donald Trump's pet projects. These are companies that have, like those vaping companies or Amazon or Apple or Microsoft. They have the huge interests before the federal government. And to be shaking them down for money in this way is so outrageous. Now, somewhere within those companies, there may very well be documents establishing that there was a quid pro quo or not. That is going to be the subject should Congress change hands, which seems likely, at least in the House, maybe the Senate, that will be the subject. Corruption investigations for years to come. When we've gone to court at Democracy Defenders, whether it's the slush fund where Trump just appealed today, he does not want to be denied his $1.8 billion slush fund, Nicole, the Kennedy center where we won a judgment to chisel his name off the front of that building. When we've gone to court, courts have found that these kinds of activities are illegal. And what Josh has reported on with his colleagues smells even worse. Now. We need to get under the hood. Were corrupt deals made or not? That is the question.
- [09:34]
Nicole Wallace
Josh, let me read a little bit more of the reporting. You write this. If a company encounters an issue with the federal government that comes to Trump's attention, he will want to know how much money that company gave, according to a person familiar with the matter. At times, he'll rib the corporate leaders who haven't met the goals he set. The person said. Several CEOs and board members said they believe there's a link between their contributions and and their access to the president. One chairman of a publicly traded company said that if you give the money, you know, you were either checked on a list or crossed off a list. If you don't, do the companies worry about being accused of paying bribes?
- [10:12]
Josh Dawsey
Well, we've heard some trepidation inside some of these companies on what will happen if the Democrats come over and take over the House. Will the companies get subpoenaed? Will their executives be called to testify in front of Capitol Hill? Will they be asked to provide documents? Will they be asked to cooperate in investigations that they would prefer that do not exist? And so you hear a lot more about that in these days. But I think for a lot of these companies, Nicole, they really want to be in the room with this president because he's made clear he is ultimate decision maker. He's going to weigh in on regulatory issues, he's going to weigh in on company specific issues. He's going to make all sorts of decisions he's willing to go after. As we've seen law firms after universities after others. And he wields an extraordinary amount of power for an executive. And I think a lot of these companies believe that, you know, contributing a few million dollars, $10 million, getting in on a fundraiser, getting into the White House sort of is worth the price of admission at this point. Now, does that change, right, if Democrats take over the House, if these investigations are launched, do people decide there's a different bet to be made? It's a good question. I don't know the answer to it, but you do sort of hear increasing trepidation among, you know, folks who work at the a lot of these publicly traded companies.
- [11:31]
Nicole Wallace
Rev, I want to show you something that Rebecca Slaughter said about why
- [11:36]
Norm Eisen
laws
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Nicole Wallace
and regulations were in place to avoid this kind of brazen out in full view. I won't say full view. It's incredible investigative reporting that brought us this view. But the conduct that Trump is engaged in. This is Rebecca Slaughter.
- [11:52]
Rebecca Slaughter
These Alphabet soup of agencies that Congress set up to have this similar structure of independent boards and conditions have a common thread. And the common thread is that they're economic watchdogs. They're there to make sure that the American economy is working for the people and not just for the rich and powerful. And what we've seen instead since the beginning of this presidency is enormous favors being handed out to those rich and powerful oligarchs who, for example, surrounded the president at his inauguration. And nothing getting better for the American people who are struggling to make rent, to provide health care, to feed their children, to keep their kids safe online. That's all important work that the FTC should be doing, and it should be doing it without fear or favor.
- [12:39]
Nicole Wallace
So, rev, I think if you wanted to usher in an American oligarchy and you wanted to roll like this, and there are legal questions that people much smarter than me are going to figure out, whether or not these millions probably adding up to billions of dollars are bribes, whether there are quid pro quos, and as Norm said, that will be the subject of investigations for years, perhaps decades to come. But what is true is that politically speaking, if you were going to change the White House into pay to play, you had to ensure that the economic security for at least your own base of voters and everyday Americans was solid. Because this all looks so corrupt and so out of touch to see fat cats getting fatter, to see all of Trump's attention on raising billions of dollars for his own vanity projects and his own political purses, whatever they are, library or whatever, while people are struggling to pay for groceries.
- [13:32]
Rick Stengel
Well, not only does that look bad for his supporters or just the American public, the real question is whether or not these payments are made and therefore getting some kind of preference on public funded regulations and regulations that are supposed to be decided on its merits and not on the basis of donation. That's where you cross the line. They have the right to give to his library, but they don't have the right to give to his library to change a regulation or to impact some, some policy that if they did not do that donation, they would not get that policy through or that regulation through. And that's what I think the Democrats are going to have to look at if they take back the House in November. Because the question is not a question of whether you can prove the unproven. It is clear if you've got people under oath or if you have some memos saying in order to get regulation A done, we gave $20 million to something the President wanted. That is straight out obvious corruption. It is not something that is nebulous that somebody could say, well, they wanted to do it because they support him. If you've got regulations and policies involved, this is beyond who you support politically. This is manipulation of government policy and laws.
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Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, Norm. Josh's reporting suggests it goes beyond just regulations and policies, but extends to litigation and ongoing lawsuits. This is from Josh's reporting. Trump has taken in money from deep pocketed companies and their owners through lawsuits or threats of litigation. The President has told his lawyers that he wants bigger payouts from media companies and others he believes have wronged him. According to people familiar with the discussions, companies have traded notes about what Wall street analyst Blair Levin calls the Trump transaction tax, or a payment outside of the cost of normal business. Another way of saying it, Levin said, is simply that we're replacing the free market with the market for Trump's affections. This is using the payouts as flagrant, obvious pay to play, but also as punitive. No play or no broadcast licenses if you don't. And the threats of lawsuits and litigation,
- [15:59]
Norm Eisen
Nicole, it's so wrong. And you know who's paying? Those companies aren't paying. You and I are paying. Our Microsoft, our Apple, our Amazon products end up being subject to the Trump tax. He came to Washington on the promise to drain the swamp. Instead, he is flooding it with his cash. And the American people see that. No wonder J.D. vance went to the Nixon library and said what Nixon did wasn't that bad. Trump has reached Nixonian lows in the polls. Like Nixon's at his worst corrupt moments because the American people see that he's benefiting himself and his cronies and not those around him. But the good news is we're standing up myself, other litigators, hundreds, thousands of groups fighting back in court. We've helped lead, for example, the effort to stop the Paramount Warner's merger. Trump's cronies, the Ellisons, thought they could skate through, get approval despite misgivings of career antitrust enforcement. The state AGs and over 5,000 people in Hollywood have stood up and said no. And that has happened again and again and again. And I think you're going to see a very severe penalty for this in November. And then Congress will begin its investigations. Trump might try pardons when he leaves office, but he can't excuse state crimes if there are any. And it's so wrong.
- [17:45]
Nicole Wallace
Josh Dawsey, you've covered Trump for a long time versus the Washington Post and now at the Wall Street Journal. I think you've run awards everywhere you've done it. He's never been this politically unpopular. Do you get in any of your reporting that anyone worries about the toxicity of his brand or is everyone just afraid of not forking over millions and billions of dollars?
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Josh Dawsey
Well, I think you see today, the Real Clear Politics average has some around 40% of the polls and, you know, maybe a 40.
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Nicole Wallace
Some of the other polls has him at 32%. AP has him at 34%. And the highest individual poll has him at 36%. He's at a low point for himself.
- [18:21]
Josh Dawsey
Yeah, he's not at a high point in his polling for right now. That's right, Nicole. There's a lot of frustration in the White House about the war in Iran, the gas prices at about $4 a gallon and the inability to sort of get those to go down. A lot of the Republicans who are blant Buckingham on Todd Blanche, that's a point of frustration in the White House for sure. I don't think it's the most happy time in there now that that sad. You know, a lot of the president's folks say, you know, he's been low before he comes back, his numbers, his numbers will come back. And that, you know, this is sort of a, this is a down moment. But, you know, it won't be this way forever. I guess we don't know. You know, I mean, I remember after the 2021, you know, the riots at the Capitol and all the folks who stormed the Capitol, there were lots of people who said, you know, he's he's low and will never come back. And then, you know, a lot of so I'm not really in the business of making predictions, but I will say this is not, I think, a particularly happy moment in the circle around him because they do realize that there's a lot of things going on ahead of the midterms that aren't necessarily great for him or the Republican Party.
- [19:32]
Nicole Wallace
Josh Dawson, it's an incredible piece of reporting. Thank you very much for bringing it to us and for talking to us about it today. Norma Eisen and Rev Al Sharpton, thank you for starting us off this hour.
- [19:41]
Rebecca Slaughter
Rev.
- [19:41]
Nicole Wallace
We'll see you this weekend on Politics nation. When we come back, what Democrats are doing about this very brazen and public corruption that has come to define Donald Trump's second term as president. Congressman Jamie Raskin joins our coverage next. Also ahead, don't look now, but the right wing media, once in lockstep in support of Donald Trump, is now ailing and showing some really, really, really big cracks. Some far right stars are starting to turn on the deeply unpopular president and many of the ones sticking with him are losing audience. Share dramatically the splintering and fragmenting and shrinkage of MAGA media later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [20:33]
Paramount Promo Announcer
This isn't the end of a fight. It's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from Taylor Sheridan returns August 2nd only on Paramount. In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives and personal betrayals collide while Joe walks the line between duty and family. Don't miss Lioness, starring Zoe Saldana, Michael Kelly, with Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman. Streaming August 2nd only on Paramount.
- [21:01]
Disclosure Day Promo Announcer
Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Koepp, starring Emily Blunt, Josh o', Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson and Colman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required. Also in theaters.
- [21:32]
Nicole Wallace
There's a lot of news to cover.
- [21:34]
Simone Sanders
Money.
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Nicole Wallace
The economic fallout from the war, is it temporary power? Is this White House for sale?
- [21:39]
Simone Sanders
Politics.
- [21:40]
Nicole Wallace
What is your message to the country right now?
- [21:42]
Simone Sanders
Money. Power. Politics with Stephanie rule, weekdays at 9am Eastern on Ms. Now,
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Josh Dawsey
Tackling the affordability
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
crisis alone will not be enough. We must also deliver accountability in the
- [22:02]
Josh Dawsey
face of rampant corruption in Washington, D.C.
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Congressman Jamie Raskin
the likes of which we have never seen in our nation's 250 year history. We are going to hold the crooks accountable.
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Nicole Wallace
Democrats hitting the anti corruption messaging hard ahead of the midterm elections 95 days away as we continue to hear more about the staggering audacity of Donald Trump's corruption and self dealing with and the personal role he plays in all of it. There's the $2 billion Donald Trump took in last year while serving as the country's president, the most he's ever made. And as we just spoke about the top of the hour, his power to power grab to get millions and millions in donations from companies for his pet projects in exchange in many instances for policies or regulations and how those companies believe that their spending gets them more access and more cooperation from the government. Joining our coverage is Congressman Jamie Raskin, Democrat from Maryland. He's the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman, thank you for being here.
- [23:09]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Yvette, delighted to be with you.
- [23:13]
Nicole Wallace
Let me first ask you about this Wall Street Journal story we came in on. I think those of us who pay attention and watch the companies sort of stand shoulder to shoulder with Donald Trump like an oligarchy on the inauguration could have worried that this is what would be ushered in. But to see the numbers and to see the frequency with which he is with business leaders and his fluency in asking for things and then getting on the phone and pulling the levers of government to favor the companies that give to him is still stunning. What are you going to do about it if when Democrats take control of the House?
- [23:49]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Well, you're right, he campaigned to drain the swamp, but he just came to own the swamp and he's made it much worse. Just kind of like the reflecting pool, which is now an algae factory. And the corruption PERMEATES the entire U.S. government now. It is a pay to play money system. And by shaking down all these corporations, as this excellent Wall Street Journal article illuminates, he's turning us into a right wing corporate state with the president in direct control over them. And that is totally the direction of fascism. But we're not waiting until the election into January to turn this. He wanted to set up a $1.8 billion political slush fund of your money, of taxpayer money from around the country essentially under his direct control to do with whatever he wants in order to pay back people that he thinks have been victims of the government. This is his anti weaponization fund for 1500 convicted January 6th insurrectionists, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, 3 percenters, the people who assaulted our police officers gave Them heart attacks, strok, traumatic brain injuries and so on. And so far, a massive political reaction against that. And our organizing Congress has been able to stop it, as well as two excellent lawsuits brought in a federal district court judge opinion saying essentially this is a fraud on the court and a fraud on the country. And yet Donald Trump, as recently as the last couple of days, has said he wants to move forward with it. And I think it is a bipartisan coalition in Congress. Admittedly, it's just a handful of Republicans, but there are a couple of Republicans who are saying no. And that is what has upheld the confirmation of Todd Blanche's attorney general, because he was one of the masterminds of this outrageous plot to steal $1.8 billion from the people to create a political slush fund for Donald Trump to pass out. And we saw what that meant because he already did it with his disgraced former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who got 1.25 million after losing in federal court his claims against the government. And he did the same thing with Carter Page. But they want to systematize it and form this program to do it. So we've passed legislation in the House to block both that specific fund and then generally any expenditure of money for that purpose, as well as the pardon, the self pardon that was thrown in for Trump, all of his children, his family and his businesses for any tax fraud or any other criminal or civil violations that they've committed up until this point. So right now, we are fighting that particular corrupt power grab. And we need the continuing involvement of the whole country so he doesn't get away with it. Because President Trump keeps saying that these people have been hurt and so on. You know what? If you've got a claim in America, take it to court like everybody else. But so far, not a single one of the people convicting of assaulting an officer or storming the the Capitol or engaging in seditious conspiracy to overthrow the government has won anything in court against the government of the United States. Which is why they want to set up this slush fund in order to give them money and to pay Donald Trump's private militia.
- [27:12]
Nicole Wallace
What do you think? It says that Trump's willing to sacrifice Todd Blanche, who, by my, from where I sit, looks like the most sycophantic and obedient person of all six who have served. I mean, if you Bill Barr, they always seem better in hindsight, bas based on who comes after them. But he has in Todd Blanche someone who wouldn't even do the things Pam Bondi would do. And he's willing to sacrifice his confirmation for the slush fund. What does that say to you about his commitment to the violent insurrectionists?
- [27:41]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Now, that's a sharp point because in a monarchical or autocratic or fascist system, ultimately the leader's interests trump everybody, including people who have utterly prostituted themselves to the leader and subordinated themselves to the leader and devoted themselves in the most humiliating sycoph. And that would include Todd Blanche. But it's not enough because he wants that total immunity from any tax prosecution, criminal prosecution, civil fraud prosecution in the future. And that's the main thing. And you know, Todd Blanche has told a number of senators that they were wrong to have gone forward with it. And basically I think the Republicans are saying, well, we would support him if they commit in writing to withdraw that entire agreement, including, I'm assuming here, the self pardon. But Trump won't do that because his family and certainly his own interests come before everybody else.
- [28:40]
Nicole Wallace
What do you make of the fact that we now have two guys, you know, it's like musical chairs. They both showed up for the Cabinet meeting. Bill Pulte, the housing person who's also the acting director of National Intelligence, and Jay Clayton, who in his confirmation here hearing on tape that'll live forever, couldn't say that Joe Biden won the 2020 election. We now have two sort of supremely fact challenged men vying for the same post.
- [29:08]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Yeah, well, look, Trump has demolished major institutions in America. Like, you know, the Kennedy center has been nearly demolished. The Washington Post has been nearly demolished during this period. The Department of Education has been ravaged, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. And I think he's going to destroy the Republican Party before it's all over because again, it's his interests that come before everybody. And what he's getting now is some of the backlash from incumbent Republican members of Congress, like, you know, Thomas Massie, for example, or Senator Cassidy who got rolled over but who are beginning to fight back. And the MAGA cult is shrinking in size, but that makes him ever more determined to exercise complete and total control over everybody within it.
- [30:04]
Nicole Wallace
Congressman Jamie Ruskin, it's always a pleasure to get to talk to you about all these stories. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today.
- [30:11]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
You bet.
- [30:13]
Nicole Wallace
When we come back, as Donald Trump, Trump's political popularity plunges to record lows, so has the audience for right wing media outlets that have for years propped him up. But look at the splintering and shrinking of MAGA media audiences. Next,
- [30:39]
Josh Dawsey
Simone Sanders Townsend. And I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House and I were and now
- [30:48]
Rebecca Slaughter
we're friends and colleagues. And on our podcast Clock it, we are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
- [30:56]
Josh Dawsey
Clock it is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news. So you can start to clock it too.
- [31:02]
Simone Sanders
Clock it with Simone and Eugene. All episodes available now.
- [31:14]
Nicole Wallace
As Donald Trump's poll numbers continue to plunge to his post January 6th levels, bringing him closer to his own rock bottom, his losing numbers aren't just hurting him and his sycophantic allies in the House and Senate, he's dragging down the entire MAGA media ecosystem with him. According to some brand new reporting in the New York Times, Benny Johnson, he's a right wing podcaster, was once racking up tens of millions of views on YouTube during Donald Trump's 2024 reelection campaign. But for poor Benny, things have changed. Views on Mr. Johnson's YouTube channel are down by millions from their heights of 2024. The surge of attention he received on X has slowed to a trickle. His loyalty to Trump has become unappealing to some Republicans who are frustrated with the rising cost of living and the president's decision to start a war with Iran. Other high profile right wing influencers are contending with similar shifts of fortune. Dan Bongino, a podcaster who rose to be the former deputy director of the FBI, has seen his live stream views shrink by about half from their peak in 2024. The shifts add to a growing body of evidence that suggests the audience for pro Trump content has fallen from its heights and for some creators has reached new levels. Lows views are dropping for many of Trump's greatest allies, while some figures on the right who have taken to criticizing Trump are showing uneven gains. To assess the shifting power of online influencers, the New York Times analyzed several years worth of audience Data across podcasts, YouTube X and Rumble. Rumble is a right wing video website for a dozen political content creators. Only a few saw their audiences grow since Trump's inauguration, while many more have seen their viewerships decline. Let's bring in media reporter and the founder of Status, Oliver Darcy and former editor of Time magazine, our political analyst Rick Stengel. Oliver Darcy, the bet on the Trump brand is something I feel like you and I have been talking about for a long time in the context of the Paramount bet, which is that somehow MAGA is an underserved slice of the media consumers and this story seems to point out that if that was ever remotely held to be the case. That there is no truth to that is a shrinking and dwindling and sort of limp and lethargic piece of the viewership.
- [33:45]
Yeah, I think you're exactly right, Nicole. Not only is Donald Trump deeply unpopular with Americans who didn't vote for him.
- [33:50]
Josh Dawsey
Right, right.
- [33:51]
Nicole Wallace
Democrats and a lot of independents, but he's becoming very unpopular among some people who did vote for him because he's betrayed exactly what he said he was running on. And, you know, if you take the issues, think about the Iran war, for instance. He promised no more foreign wars. We're in a foreign war. It seems like an endless one these days. And that's on him. That's not America First. You know, you talk about immigration, even that's something he ran on. He was so radical with immigration enforcement that people like Marjorie Taylor Greene were like, wait a second, this is not what I've voted for. You think about the Epstein files. That's another thing that animated the right wing base.
- [34:29]
Where are they?
- [34:30]
They haven't all been released. And that's something that's embarrassed a lot of these people. You read about Dan Bongino, he was the deputy FBI director. Dan, you said there was this big cover up. You were inside the government for a while. What happened? And I think some people are opening their eyes and realizing that this has been somewhat of a scam. Right. If Dan Bongino is inside the FBI and, and the Epstein files are still hidden from public view and the Trump administration saying that basically no one did anything wrong, you know, that does not make the MAGA base, which has been told there's a giant conspiracy theory for the past several years that does not make them feel good. And so I think that they are becoming disenchanted. And I think you're seeing that manifested in people like Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson becoming increasingly critical of Donald Trump and, and basically no longer hitching their wagon to him because they realize he is no longer as popular as he once was just a few years ago.
- [35:29]
I think, Rick, the danger is that to save face and unhitch themselves from Trump, some of them are becoming even more radical. I'm not gonna sort of platform all of the folks that have broken, but they tend to be the most radical. People like Nick Fuentes and Megyn Kelly has aligned herself with Tucker Carlson's who's one the most radical. But I do want to show you some of the contortions that Trump has forced some of his most rabid followers to make in their own Words starting with Alex Jones.
- [36:05]
Norm Eisen
We've got to support Trump or civilization will collapse. Those are quotes, and it's true.
- [36:11]
Josh Dawsey
I'm calling for it right now. 25th amendment, impeachment, whatever needs to happen
- [36:16]
Nicole Wallace
to get this front and center to get control of our country. I believe been very open with the fact that I will be supporting Trump.
- [36:23]
Rebecca Slaughter
I'm completely embarrassed that I supported Trump in the past because of, you know, the fact that he completely flipped on his entire base.
- [36:30]
Nicole Wallace
I wish you the best of luck.
- [36:31]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Thank you very much. I never even wanted Trump to win
- [36:34]
Nicole Wallace
until he was the only guy to vote for.
- [36:36]
Dude, Trump is a man. You guys ever meet Trump? You talk to him now you meet him, and he's actually a solid guy. When you're at a Trump rally, you're like, oh, I could definitely see how Hitler happened. Like, I'm not even. I'm not joking,
- [36:50]
Rick. All those folks have lots of problems in terms of messengers, but this is. What did Trump do during the eclipse? Like, stared at the sun. This is sort of like staring at the sun. It's important to see how he brought along so many young, disaffected men. And it was through a lot of those content creators and messengers. And to a person, none of them has moved toward him. Right. There isn't like a second reel that we're not showing you of Trump. People who are more excited about him than they were before, they have all turned away from him. Your thoughts?
- [37:27]
Well, Nicole, some of it is the proverbial rats deserting the sinking ship, but they're deserting the ship for different reasons. I mean, all of the folks we just saw feel betrayed by Trump in one way or another. They realize that he has no. No ideology at all except get attention and get money. But there are some people who are abandoning him because he isn't as extreme as they had hoped. I mean, there are people who think that Donald Trump should be bombing the heck out of Iran much more than he is. But so much of it is just as Oliver said. He's doing things that are unpopular and inconsistent with what he said he would do. And it's always easy to be unified in opposition.
- [38:12]
Congressman Jamie Raskin
Opposition.
- [38:12]
Nicole Wallace
He's not in opposition anymore, even though he acts like he doesn't even run the government. And people are seeing that his power is ebbing, that the midterms are coming, the 2028 is coming, and so it's splitting people up. There's. There's a kind of centrifugal force that's separating everybody. And I think we'll continue to see them lose audience rather than gain audience.
- [38:36]
He's also playing them for fools. Like, he wants all the people we're talking about to believe that when Obama was president and Biden was president, our elections were safe and had integrity. And he won, but only when he was in charge. They got all screwed up. I mean, he's feeding them, you know, sort of the political version of toxic chemicals that he wanted Little Bear Killer RFK to get rid of. I'll show you some of that content on the other side. Don't go anywhere. So, Oliver, one of the things that I think in 2.0 is most interesting to me is that the sort of ritual humiliation of Republicans now extends to Trump's voters. And he wants his voters to believe that. He keeps saying, quote, the country is hot. It's never been this hot. He keeps saying that we are, quote, winning the war against Iran. Nobody seems to think that's the case. And he wants his base of supporters to believe that the only election that was rigged was the one that he was in charge. Just talk about the sort of poor quality of the information diet he's feeding his voters.
- [39:44]
Yeah, I mean, it's. It's all transparently false, and I think people can see through that pretty easily. If we were winning the war, you know, this war would be over. You keep saying it's about to be over. We keep hearing about peace deals, and then we see headlines about us bombing the country. So pretty obviously not over. If he wants to talk about prices, people see gas prices every day. They're not coming down. They've been going up. That's a problem for him, you know, and they affect everything. Grocery prices. These are the things people are looking at. So he can say whatever he wants. He can have a very powerful propaganda machine, which he still does. Fox News is still very much in his corner, pumping out pro Trump propaganda on a nightly basis. But people are also smart. And, you know, he might be able to hold on to a small percentage of this country because they are so locked in the Fox News magazphear that they just can't be broken free. But most people are not like that. And they see the grocery prices, they see the headlines about war, they see what's happening with immigration these days, and they don't like it. And they might have voted for him the last time around. There are a lot of people who did, but they feel betrayed by what he's doing because there were core promises like no foreign war. I will fix the economy. I will bring Inflation down. These were things that he promised to voters. They believed him for whatever reason, and now they feel betrayed because they're seeing he has failed to deliver on these core promises.
- [41:12]
You know, Rick, there's also a foolishness in terms of the public nature of the corruption. Right. That his own supporters are supposed to go along with Trump making more money than he ever made as a business person, that he's suddenly the best business person he's ever been, as he's 80 and falls asleep in front of cameras every single day at the Resolute desk. I mean, there's. There's just a nonsense to the lies that he wants his voters to swallow.
- [41:40]
And, Nicole, as you know, corruption is something that resonates with voters. And I think. I think voters are probably willing to tolerate a certain amount of corruption if, if I am making money, too. If the economy is going up, if GDP is growing, going, then let him make his billions. But that's exactly the opposite of what's happened. And I always have said, and we've talked about this before, when a politician tells voters he knows better how you're feeling than you do, that's a terrible direction to go in. And that's essentially what Trump has been doing. And as you said before, so much of this propaganda is so patently false. I mean, that very good New York Times story that we featured in the beginning of the story story begins with Benny Johnson's popularity going down. I went to his site just before we went on, and the headline is, the eua. The EU is breaking up and Muslims are invading Spain. At a certain point, American folks just realize this is not true. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.
- [42:45]
Although, Darcy, the other piece of this, I think, is our obsession with what is increasingly a shrinking part of the country. It's okay if 29% of country is really into him, like, for the next 30 years. Like, you can have MAGA hats at, you know, old revivals of, you know, the Trump years.
- [43:02]
Disclosure Day Promo Announcer
Great, forever.
- [43:03]
Nicole Wallace
They don't matter to our electoral politics. They don't matter in terms of how elections are going to go. It is a fervent fan base, but it is increasingly electorally insignificant and desperate now.
- [43:16]
I think you're seeing a lot of desperation on the right. I think that's why you're seeing Dr. Faust Fauci dominate discussion in the MAGA media universe this week, because that's a greatest hit that can unify every aspect of the Trump base.
- [43:28]
Norm Eisen
Right.
- [43:28]
Nicole Wallace
That's something that they can go back to. I mean, it's crazy. I honestly cannot believe that in 2026, in the summer, we were talking about COVID and Dr. Fauci and him being before Congress. I mean, it just seems. It just seems so crazy to me. But I think the reason they're talking about this is because they don't want to talk about the war in Iran. They don't want to talk about gas prices. They don't want to talk about about the Epstein files anymore. They need something that's going to unify the base. And so they're fixated on these old hits.
- [43:58]
Oliver Darcy and Rick Stangle, thank you so much for spending time with us on this. When we come back, there is no end to the global humiliation under the leadership of Donald Trump. The administration's latest embarrassment is our next story. You do have to give them credit on one front, because just when you think that the Trump administration's gaffes or screw ups can't get any dumber, more embarrassing for all of us, they always find a way to outdo themselves. Reuters is now reporting this quote A US Government map of Africa mislabeled every country during a State Department presentation at a global conference taking place in Brazil this week, causing a stir among attendees who took screenshots and posted them online. A Reuters analysis found the image of the map included in the presentation contained an artificial intelligence watermark that signals it was made with OpenAI tools. The company said it was investigating the report. The map showed Nigeria, where the US Currently has several hundred troops deployed as landlocked in the Sahara Desert. Mozambique, which is in southeastern Africa, was relocated located to the Horn of Africa, while Ivory coast in West Africa was placed on the other side of the continent. The State Department said it took full responsibility for the confusion caused and said that the map had been produced by a team member who hastily changed the slide deck before the event. Okay, quick break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. We are so grateful.
- [45:45]
Simone Sanders
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