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- [00:00]
IXL Advertiser
If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is right for your family as an effective and affordable online learning program. IXL covers math, language arts, science and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from Pre K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today@ixl.com 20. Visit ixl.com 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the
- [00:30]
Prolon Advertiser
best price can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet rejuvenates you at the cellular level, lets you enjoy real food and does not require an injection. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com PandoraPromo
- [01:02]
Political Commentator
this is too craz, and especially when it's the administration that really ran on and promised that we want to get out of this, out of this game of fighting stupid wars in the Middle East. Yeah, that was what we were all supporting. That was the one thing that he was saying that was so promising to so many people that were independent, that were on the fence. They're like, this guy wants no wars, all right? He wants closing the border, which I think is a great idea. He wants no wars. That enough? Let's go.
- [01:33]
Alicia Menendez
Hi again, everybody. It's five o' clock here in New York. I'm Alicia Menendez in today for Nicole Wallace. When students of history generations down the line wonder aloud, how exactly did the formidable MAGA movement diminish? The answer, to borrow a Hemingway line, might be, quote, two ways, gradually, then suddenly. Because right now the American people are bearing witness to what could be a monumental breakup, a very public one of what was, until very recently, a seemingly unshakable political coalition. Again, it has been gradual. That wasn't the first time Joe Rogan criticized Donald Trump for what's become a rank betrayal of core campaign principles. But especially in the last week or so, Rogan and other conservative media figures, likewise responsible non zero contributions to Trump's victory in 2024 appear to be maybe turning the page. And it reflects a broader reality inside the Republican Party that many of Trump's voters just don't like what they see on Epstein, on the economy, and particularly on Iran. The Washington Post's latest reporting from inside the halls of the annual CPAC conference adds context. Quote Trump and his handling of the war remained popular among Most voters who identify as MAGA supporters, polls show. At the same time, some prominent conservatives who have long been seen as speaking for the Trump base have voiced fierce opposition to the war. That includes well known MAGA commentators including Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Marjorie Taylor Greene, and also popular podcasters like Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, who've been credited with helping Trump win younger, less politically active voters. That also includes conservative personality Sean Ryan sat down with Joe Kent, the Trump official who resigned in protest of the war last week. In their conversation, Ryan commended Kent for his, quote, courage, then this. I haven't been happy about really much
- [03:28]
Angela Corazon
of anything that's been going on.
- [03:30]
Alicia Menendez
I feel like it's been a 180
- [03:32]
Angela Corazon
bait and switch from what we were
- [03:33]
Alicia Menendez
told in just about every aspect. And I've been wondering, because I know there's people frustrated up there and I've been wondering what, what are you still
- [03:44]
Cornell Belcher
doing in the position?
- [03:46]
Angela Corazon
If you're not doing the job that you were supposed to do, why are you still there? Is it power?
- [03:53]
Alicia Menendez
Because it's not power. They might think it's power, but if
- [03:56]
Cornell Belcher
you are not able to do the
- [03:57]
Alicia Menendez
job that you're there to do, then you're powerless.
- [04:00]
Angela Corazon
Right? That's the conclusion I came to.
- [04:04]
Alicia Menendez
Now, in truth, it is simply too soon to stick a fork in what is still a potent political coalition. When those students of history in however many years wonder whatever happened to maga, you can be sure that this week it will be a part of the answer. And that is where we start this hour with president of Media Matters for America, Angela Corazon. Also with us, Democratic pollster and political analyst Cornell Belcher. And back with us, the host of the Bulwark Podcast, political analyst Tim Miller. You know, you always remind me, Angelo, of a few things. One, that these major marquee events where we see disagreement, often that disagreement, that public disagreement, is by design, that the folks that I've referenced are like the most mainstream, I guess, of the media figures who are out there. You listen to a lot more conservative radio, a lot more of these podcasts, a lot more of these TV shows than anyone else. I know your sense of where they are all headed.
- [05:07]
Angela Corazon
They're headed in a place that is similar to what you're hearing there, except for the core parts of what we, if we were having this conversation 10 years ago, we would call them the right wing media, Fox News talk radio. There they are. What is left of the MAGA coalition that, that center right, they're going to be fully with Trump no matter What? And even when they split with Trump. So the second edge, like Megyn Kelly, for example, she's very critical of what Trump's doing. There's a segment right outside that band that's saying, this is bad, but somebody tricked him. Yeah, what he's doing is bad, but we now need to figure out who did this to him. But then the larger MAGA coalition that we all think about, the thing that gave Trump so much power that he built in the last presidential election, you know, all these broadcasts, all these culture figures, the thing that we, when we think about maga, they're splintering off now, as you're hearing, they're not necessarily going to be pro Democrat. I think sometimes people will think, well, they're anti Trump, so that means they're pro the opposite of that. And that's not true. But the significance is that they're no longer propelling the narrative that he's telling. That's the first. They're no longer reinforcing the inertia and the, the, the fear of rejecting or telling a counter story or challenging Trump because you'll just be so totally overwhelmed. And then those cracks create vulnerabilities and weaknesses, almost like amongst their audiences where they're up for grabs. You can actually move them in one direction or another. They're not static. They're not always going to be with Trump no matter what. And that is beginning to really. Those cracks that have been there for a while, it started with the EPST and stuff last year, we can't discount the arc here, as you noted, slowly and then all at once, those cracks are now full blown fractures and they are chasms. They're no longer going to sort of go back and they will now continue to drift further and further away. And that's the real significance of it.
- [06:56]
Alicia Menendez
Tim Miller, to that point, I want you to take a listen. This is Joe Rogan talking about the MAGA coalition.
- [07:03]
Political Commentator
I'm not attached to the phrase make America great again. I don't care, then fine, but that phrase sucks. Here's the thing, like, first of all, America is great. Make America greater. I'm down, but make America great again. And then it becomes a movement of a bunch of dorks, because a lot of them are dorks. A lot of them, these really weird, uninteresting, unintelligent people that have got something they cling to. And there's a lot of people that are just real genuine patriots. And they're all lumped into this one group. And you got to accept the dorks too that like the concept of making America great is a great idea. But as soon as you have a team and you allow anybody to join up, you don't even have tryouts for your team. So you've got a bunch of dip that are running around spouting out opinions and you have to go along with them because they're maga.
- [07:57]
Alicia Menendez
Okay, I just wanna say Tim Miller, I'm not sure. And he didn't name names in that particular clip. It shouldn't have taken anyone who was listening or paying attention this long to realize that. Let's just say Stephen Miller is a huge dork and that his ideas are so radically out of line with where most Americans are and that he is not actually interested in making America great in any forward looking vision. But still. Welcome. Glad you are here. Welcome to the party. I am curious what you think this says, but also what is motivating this folks, because I think we have to be honest about the fact that they have brands too and that they recognize that the brand proximity to Trump no longer has the prestige that it once did.
- [08:43]
Tim Miller
Yeah, I think it's gonna be tempting for about a year now, or maybe longer to just do. How didn't you see this before? We were so right. We tried to tell you. And so I don't know, maybe we can all allow ourselves like five minutes of that a week so then you can move on to something more productive. Because I hear you on all that, Alicia. Right. They were always dorks. If you've gone to a. I've been to CPACs, okay. It's nothing new. It's not the cool kids table. So look, I think that the significance of the Joe Rogan thing to me is twofold. One, moving from being critical of Trump and doing kind of what Angela was talking about Megyn Kelly doing, kind of saying that he's being missserved or something must be wrong. There must be something else happening in Washington. Doing the conspiracy talk, that's a baby step away from Trump starting to become, starting to mock him, starting to mock his movement, mocking the name of his movement. That is different. That is somebody that as you said, is trying to separate himself brand wise from Trump. And it's someone that's trying to save face with his audience because he sees that it's going very badly and he doesn't want to be made to look like a fool. And that's extremely potent. You know, once you move away from disagreeing or criticizing or trying to do a 4D chess rationalization for why it's happening into mocking and contempt. You know, I think that is going to resonate with the audience. And I think that what you see from these guys is them moving to again, I think, as Angela said, again, like, not to the Democrats, but back to where they had been. A lot of these guys were non voters. A lot of these guys were not engaged in the process. And I think that is. That's the first step. And I was watching one of the barstool podcasts with a couple of these guys. It's a smaller show than any of these, but I thought this was telling. The two of them were talking to each other, these two guys, and they're like, you know, he's doing terrible, but, like, you can't say it because then the MSNL people will start to come for you and tell and rub it in your face. And he's like. And then, you know, you lose the fact that the other side is still unacceptable to me. And I think that is, like, where they are in the process right now. Like, accepting the fact that Trump has betrayed them, accepting the fact that he is a disaster, and trying to maybe do the first step, which is maybe I'm not involved in politics at all. I'm checking out of politics, which, you know, is better on balance than voting for maga.
- [11:09]
Alicia Menendez
Cornell Belcher. I've been gifted five minutes a month of saying I told you so by Team Miller. I think I've used up about 30 seconds of it. Look forward to the next 4 minutes and 30 seconds while March REM. One of the things I thought was interesting, this was the AP reporting from cpac. I'm not gonna read it to you, but I'm gonna describe it to you, which is essentially, younger conservatives are disappointed and they feel betrayed, specifically about the action in Iran. And there is a generational split. And like, of course there's a generational split, Cornell, because we know who is sent to these wars. We know who understands the price that will be paid, because it is their peers that will pay the price. And it is they, financially, who will be left holding the bag for whichever forever war this president chooses to entangle himself in. I wonder when you're doing polling and focus group right now, if you see this bubbling up.
- [12:07]
Cornell Belcher
I do. Right. But before I get into that, I want to say, you know, put me on the Miss me want to that mess bus with all these people saying that, you know, this is not what we voted for. This is exactly what you voted for. And so many of us told you this is what you voted for. And not just Democrats, by the way. Some Republicans, you know, namely the Cheneys, were saying this is exactly what you voted for. But that aside, that told you so, a moment aside for me. Look, I think you do see this unfolding and I think the most prominent place you see it unfolding is look at the last elections that we've had over the last year from, from the off year elections last year into what we have right now where Democrats overperforming, you know, by double digits sometimes, you know, 20 points over performing what, what they had typically had done. And where you're seeing Democrats flip seats in solidly red places, especially in State Ledge, right in Mar a Lago, where his home is right now is now represented by a Democrat. And look, it is beyond just the activists. When you look out at the broader coalition. The biggest parts of his coalition were rural voters and non college white voters. Rural voters voted for him by 64%. Non college white voters, 66%. Look at where they are right now in the poll, in the Marist poll, I think it was just out recently. There is he's above water by just a couple of points among, among, among non college voters and within five or six points within rural voters. That is, that is real signs of erosion of sort of his solid sort of supporters and by the way, the supporters that congressional Republicans are desperately going to need to energize and move to the polls and in order to avoid a midterm disaster. One last thing that's problematic in that is you also have polling that shows that Democrats are opening up a 14 point enthusiasm gap over Republicans. I do agree that a lot of these younger, more sporadic voters who came out for him and voted for him and now are disappointed that's part of their midterm problem is that how do they get those more sporadic voters turned out? And what you're seeing is that from election, election after election that we've seen thus far, we don't see them showing out and showing up enthusiastically.
- [14:35]
Alicia Menendez
It is interesting to me. I watched Angelo initially when Tim was talking about how a lot of these voters are not frequent voters, they are atypical voters. You sort of lit up because that is really who it is that we are talking about here. And I wonder if you have a sense of who they are still listening to and if there is anything this administration is offering that continues to resonate with them.
- [15:02]
Angela Corazon
I think that's the part that's significant about this, that kind of gets lost because it's so complicated, confusing. But the simple thing is it's not like the past. There is no singular center of gravity. There's no Rush Limbaugh, like figure, you know, or Fox and Friends kind of equivalent. Now, if when they're not listening to Joe Rogan, they're spending their time listening to other podcasts or they're watching live streams, right? They're watching things about looks, masking. I know that's very fashionable these days to talk about, but there's all kinds of kick streams about that. They're watching video game streams. And that's the part where it matters. Because the people that we're talking about in this conversation, the Joe Rogan's, the Theo Vaughn's, they're like a weather vane for what else is happening in that larger, not political, first space. And so when those people are not getting Joe Rogan sort of ripping on MAGA there, their other programs, whether it be a video game streamer or somebody's talking about peptides or whatever that is, they're also complaining about the administration's vibes or even very specific things like the war, Right? So they're actually getting it reinforced in the other places that they're listening to, which in some ways is more power, more powerful than a singular figure repeating the same thing over and over again. And that, to me, is the part that's significant. They're not boosting other parties, other positions, other people necessarily, but they are completely right now eroding and obliterating the connective tissue that held together all of these low propensity, not political voters, the people that were on the fringes that Trump brought in and built power with that connective tissue that held them all together. The other nine hours of programming that they're listening to in podcasts and streams, they're all doing some version of what we're talking about with these weather vanes today. And that's why it's significant, as you notice, as you said at the beginning, slowly and then all at once, that to me, is the real difference maker now than say, a year ago, it hadn't really breached through to those other spaces. They were still very much isolated from the larger chaos and mess that Trump has affected. And that's just not what's playing out right now in those spaces.
- [17:04]
Alicia Menendez
No, because they actually have to go to the gas pump and fill up their tank. All right, Angela Corazon, Cornell Belcher, Tim Miller, thank you all so much for being with us. When we return, organizers expect millions of Americans to turn out for tomorrow's no Kings protest nationwide as the disapproval for Donald Trump and the anger over his policies continues to grow. Now protesters have another reason to take part as Donald Trump once again is putting his name where it does not belong. Also ahead for us, a group of Jeffrey Epstein survivors are now suing the Trump Justice Department and Google over the disclosure of their personal information, which in many cases is still available online. We're going to hear from one survivor later in the hour. But before we go to break, some breaking news. Golf legend Tiger woods has been arrested after being involved in a car crash near his Florida home. It is his third crash in 20 years. Tiger was not injured and was alone in the car. The driver of the truck that was involved in the incident was also not injured. Officials say he has been arrested for driving under the influence with property damage and refusal to submit to a lawful test deadline. White House continues after a quick break. Stay with us.
- [18:16]
Podcast Promoter
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- [19:12]
IXL Advertiser
If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is right for your family as an effective and affordable online learning program. IXL covers math, language arts, science and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from Pre K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today@ixl.com 20. Visit ixl.com 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- [19:43]
Prolon Advertiser
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- [20:12]
Alicia Menendez
as the anger and frustration with Donald Trump's presidency continues to grow, organizers are expecting millions of Americans to take to the streets tomorrow for no Kings protests all across this country and what they say will be the largest march yet of Trump 2.0. Organizers are expecting more than 9 million people across all 50 states to participate. Minnesota, which is still reeling after two U.S. citizens were shot and killed by Trump's ICE agents during Operation Metro Surge, will be the flagship protest site with Bruce Springsteen set to perform his protest song Streets of Minneapolis. Meanwhile, Donald Trump, as if to prove their point that he is a wannabe king, is set to add his signature to the dollar, making it the first time since the dollar began being printed that the signature of a president appears on the currency. Joining me now is Rebecca Winter. She is the executive director of Mass 5051, an advocacy group committed to defending democracy in Massachusetts. She is one of the organizers of tomorrow's no Kings protests. And joining me at the table, president of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, Maya Wiley. She spoke at the no Kings protest in New York City last October. It is good to see you both. Alright, Rebecca, give us a preview of what we can expect tomorrow.
- [21:28]
Rebecca Winter
Oh, we are going to be seeing a lot of nonviolent rage out in those streets. We are looking at over 3,300 protests that are scheduled across six continents. We have more than one for every US county. And right now we're expecting between 10 and 12 million people are going to come out against the Trump administration.
- [21:51]
Alicia Menendez
10 to 12 million people. My goodness. Maya Wiley. So many American citizens who are, who want to utilize their rights while they still have them, to stand in the face of tyranny, oppression and a devolution
- [22:04]
Maya Wiley
of civil rights and to say we're not afraid. The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights is co sponsoring this. It's a diverse march. It is made up of people who are experiencing directly the way in which this administration is actually trying to take from us what we spent 76 years as a coalition fighting for and winning in this country. And I just want to say this because, you know, when you say no Kings, the point about that statement is that it covers exactly what we are experiencing from our government. This is our government. It is not a government that is supposed to tell us it can violate the Constitution or tell us that if we were born here, we can't get a passport here if they decide we shouldn't get one, or that tells us that it's okay for masked, roving, armed agents to stop us because your skin color is like mine or your name is like yours. And that is a huge part of why no Kings is about. No violating our civil rights, no thinking we're going back to before the Civil War, and no thinking that anyone in this nation is going to back down and be afraid because you're trying to drive fear.
- [23:26]
Alicia Menendez
Well, Rebecca, I mean, it's almost too on the nose to learn that Donald Trump is putting his signature on our currency. Right before this. I want to read you just a little bit of what Scott Bessen had to say. He said, under President Trump's leadership, we are on a path toward unprecedented economic growth, lasting dollar dominance and fiscal strength and stability. There is no more powerful way to recognize the historic achievements of our great country and President Donald J. Trump than US Dollar bills. Beari I think anyone who's actually living in this economy, Rebecca, would quibble with the way that Scott Besant classifies this moment that we find ourselves in. But the parallelism of no Kings and a person who says he can vote by mail because he's the president, but everyone else who votes by mail is a fraud and wants to put his name on everything from the Kennedy center to our currency, it really paints a picture, Rebecca, of where we find ourselves in this moment. What do you hope the message is that these protests send tomorrow?
- [24:30]
Rebecca Winter
The messages are that what he is doing is lining the pockets of the Epstein class. He doesn't give a crap about the American people. He never has. He has started another endless war in the Middle east that is costing American taxpayers $2 billion a day. Our gas prices are through the roof. And this is after he's already cut snap benefits, cut affordable health care. I mean, if he cared about the American people, he would be focusing on the American people. He does not. He is a raging narcissist and he has filled his cabinet full of people who are completely disqualified for their positions. So we are getting out there to reclaim our democracy and to repair it, since it has not worked for a long time.
- [25:14]
Alicia Menendez
The marches were once described to me, Rebecca, as almost connective tissue. Folks needing an outlet, folks needing a sense of community as safety in this moment. And that undoubtedly, when we think about it as connective tissue, that there is a real role for this energy to play going into midterms. And I wonder sort of how you see yourself as an organizer taking the energy that we are seeing now in March and making sure that it manifests in organizing straight through to November.
- [25:49]
Rebecca Winter
That's exactly what this event is supposed to be. The no Kings events are visibility events. So they are about solidarity. They are about getting out in the streets, being with like minded people and reclaiming that hope that we have in American society. What we need to do though is convert people from event goers into activists. And many of these events are aiming to do that. There are going to be organizers tabling across the country recruiting volunteers for frontline work, for mutual aid work, for mass mobilization work. And then we're going to put that into organized power to preserve our free and fair elections and to fight all of the numerous battles along the way as Trump continues to tear down our Constitution. It is up to us to dig in, to be part of our democracy and to fight back.
- [26:40]
Alicia Menendez
Keep thinking about the number that Rebecca shared at the beginning of this segment, the expectation of 10 to 12 million people, which you know, as organizers, you put that number out there, you better be pretty sure that that is the number that you're getting. You compare it to the 5 million folks, which was a huge number back in June of last year. And I'm thinking about what has transpired and what has changed in that time. And one of the undeniable things that has changed is the fact that Americans together watched two of their fellow citizens watched two of their fellow citizens be
- [27:11]
Maya Wiley
killed repeatedly, repeatedly on loop, on, loop
- [27:14]
Alicia Menendez
on by the agents of this state. And in any other timeline, that would be the story that we return to over and over again. Our attention is being pulled in so many directions. But I do think that specific rage, that specific sense of injustice, that specific fear must be motivating. Just the sheer volume of turnout that is being anticipated tomorrow.
- [27:45]
Maya Wiley
There's no question that when you push people up against the wall, they're not going to just stand there. And it's like a psychological we're pushing you up against the wall. We are going to remember that after they killed Ms. Good and Mr. Preddy, they also tried to defend it. I mean, there was not even the grace to say these are two human beings who've lost their lives. And but by the way, we saw six year old Liam, we saw university students being kidnapped off their campuses and out of their dorms. People were here with permission and in school, I mean, we were told that this was going to be about criminals. And yet the only crimes we're seeing committed right now is by people in uniform who are paid to serve us and who are supposed to keep us safe, but are making us more endangered. And by the way, the administration is taking this to the next level. I mean, we are fighting the attacks on civil rights organizations and the right to protest because this administration wants to silence dissent or those who try to hold it accountable. And that is why these protests are growing. That is why even two thirds of Those who are RSVPing the reason organizers can feel very confident about the numbers. And I feel confident about the numbers is people are signing up to be in these protests. So they're not making the numbers up, but two thirds of them are not in major cities. You know this notion that somehow it's the liberal elite. No, because people are feeling the pain across this country. They're feeling what is at stake, which is exactly as Rebecca said, you can spend. If I tell you, Alicia, I'm going to take a trillion dollars to make you less safe and to violate your rights, by the way, I'm also going to then do that by spending on Department of Homeland Security and I'm going to take $1 trillion away from you being able to see a doctor when you're sick. What are you going to say to me? I think you're going to say I'll see you in the streets and I'll have a sign and then I'll be at the polls. And it doesn't matter what you try
- [29:55]
Alicia Menendez
to do, it's always the signs that I am watching for because the signs tell their own story. Real quick, Rebecca, if there is someone at home who is on the fence about whether or not show up tomorrow, what is your message to them?
- [30:06]
Rebecca Winter
You got to do it. Democracy is not a spectator sport. We need everyone to get out there tomorrow and then continue the next day and the next day.
- [30:16]
Alicia Menendez
Rebecca Winter, thank you so much for your time, Maya. You are sticking with me. When we return, another twist in the Epstein scandal, how private investigators working for Epstein's legal team took possession of Epstein's computers and hard drives, devices that were possibly never seen by federal investigators. That news plus a brand new lawsuit by Epstein survivors against the Trump administration and have all that after a quick break.
- [30:43]
IXL Advertiser
If you're a parent and want to help set up your child for success, then IXL is right for your family as an effective and affordable online learning program. IXL covers math, language arts, science and social studies using interactive practice problems for kids from Pre K to 12th grade. Listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up today@ixl.com 20. Visit ixl.com 20 to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- [31:14]
Prolon Advertiser
Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet rejuvenates you at the cellular level, lets you enjoy real food and does not require an injection. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute. Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when comb with proper exercise and nutrition get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com PandoraProromo why have I
- [31:41]
Alicia Menendez
asked my electrician I found on angie.com to bury my pet hamster?
- [31:44]
Angela Corazon
I was so moved by how carefully
- [31:45]
Alicia Menendez
he buried my electrical wires.
- [31:47]
Angela Corazon
I knew I could trust him to
- [31:48]
Alicia Menendez
bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.
- [31:50]
Political Commentator
This is very strange, Angie. The one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com
- [31:57]
Alicia Menendez
Survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse are demanding accountability for the public release of of their personal information, filing a class action lawsuit against both the Justice Department for publishing their information and Google for allowing that information to remain online. The lawsuit alleges that with the DOJ's rapid release of the Epstein files, they quote, outed approximately 100 survivors of the convicted sexual predator, publishing their private information and identifying them to the world. Even after the government acknowledged the disclosure, violated the rights of the survivors and withdrew the information online, entities like Google continuously republish it, refusing victims pleas to take it down, adding that quote, survivors now face renewed trauma. Strangers call them, email them, threaten their physical safety and accuse them of conspiring with Epstein when they are in reality Epstein's victims. The group is seeking minimum damages of $1,000 per survivor from the Justice Department and is asking the court to order Google to immediately remove survivors personal information. Joining Maya, Wylie and me at the table is Dani Bensky. She is one of the Epstein survivors who has been bravely advocating for transparency. Dani, thank you so much.
- [33:12]
Dani Bensky
Thank you for having me.
- [33:14]
Alicia Menendez
Just to level set here, are you a part of this suit?
- [33:18]
Dani Bensky
I'm not sure yet. None of us really know. It hasn't been completely certified yet so we won't know until it's a certified class action. It should be because I'm an Epstein survivor. So we will. Yeah, we'll see. Tbd.
- [33:32]
Alicia Menendez
This is how class action suits work.
- [33:34]
Maya Wiley
Yeah, this is how class actions work. And in court you have to the lawyers have to say we have a class we want you to approve to be certified. It is a judge who will decide. But look, I'm just going to say this, this is likely to be a certified class. All that means is these are people who have the same set of circumstances and Therefore, they're well represented as a group because it's basically the same claim. And there's typicality. There's typical claims. So in this case, it's very unlikely that it won't be certified.
- [34:07]
Alicia Menendez
Okay, so that is the legalese. We have now gotten it out of the way with me and my LSAT law education. What's the impact for you, though, of having your information online?
- [34:17]
Dani Bensky
Oh, I mean, it's been huge, I think after. So my information was released all three times. Even this last, there was a batch of 20 documents that were released. And even in that after, my lawyers have already said her name needs to be redacted and sent a list of names that needed to be taken care of. Even in this last batch, my name was still there. So after each release, I see more media that comes my way and threats, Honestly, whether they're intense or not, they're definitely in my Facebook inbox. They'll say, I saw you on this program and I saw your information in the files. And whoever I have named so far. There was one when I was at the State of the Union, I was part of the press conference, and in my remarks, I had talked about FBI Director Patel. And so I had some stuff in my inbox that came through and just said, like, how dare you go after Kash Patel? There was a man posing with an assault rifle. He sent me a picture of himself. So things like that, that just can really scare survivors, of course. But there's been more of an influx of that after each of these releases. And it's incredibly private information that is in our 302 statements. Right. And it's not meant for the world to see. Like, we wanted the transparency, and we needed the transparency to out those that are powerful. Right. But. But in my 302 statement, you're looking at something that was really the ramblings of a very scared. I was just 20 years old. I had been told multiple times by Jeffrey Epstein that if I ever went to law enforcement after I had turned 18 that I would be brought up on prostitution charges. I had talked to my mom about going in before when I was subpoenaed in 2008, and she was like, stay as far away from this as possible because you don't want to ruin your whole life. You don't want to ruin any career aspirations that you have here. And so when I went to the FBI, it really felt like an interrogation. And I remember feeling so incredibly scared. So in those 302s, you know, it's all of these Files are meant to look at as an investigatory tool. It is not meant to be totally face value. So it was meant to be so that they can launch investigations. Right. But to be under a microscope as a survivor all the time and now have your identifying information out there has been incredibly challenging.
- [36:50]
Alicia Menendez
To be under a microscope at 20.
- [36:52]
Cornell Belcher
Yeah.
- [36:53]
Alicia Menendez
And then to yourself have to revisit that. Knowing that absolute strangers are revisiting it with you is so deeply unfair. And this is why it was supposed to be the responsibility of the Department of Justice to make sure that folks like Danny were protected as these files were released. That there was. There was absolutely the ability to have the transparency that survivors were advocating for and at the same time, to make sure that they were protected and that their names were redacted. One time. It's sloppy. Three times. It is hard not to see it
- [37:29]
Maya Wiley
as willful negligence, especially when you're delaying releasing the documents despite a law passed by Congress that says you have to. And your claim about why it's taking so long is because you're being so careful about the identifying information of survivors like Danny. And then what, you just keep dumping it out there? I mean, this is incredibly irresponsible, and that is my kind version of this. But I just want to go back to Danny's point. The whole job of the Department of Justice is to ensure that victims feel able to come forward. Very few people who are victims of sexual violence come forward and report it. And therefore, it's law enforcement's job to make it. To make it as possible and to do this and to do it from the national office, from the highest rungs of the department and the FBI. And then. And then it's not even all the documents, by the way. So every aspect of this is both a complete travesty, a complete disrespect to these survivors, but it's also a signal that you can't trust law enforcement and the people's lawyers, because that's what the Department of Justice is supposed to be. The department for us, not the department for Just Trump.
- [39:05]
Alicia Menendez
Maya, Danny, I want you both to stick with me. We're going to sneak in a quick break, and then we're going to be right back with Maya Wiley and Danny Benskier. I want to talk to you about that other story that I teased earlier about the House Oversight Committee sending letters to private investigators who removed hard drives from Epstein's home in 2005 to ensure they preserve the hard drives. This is after the deposition of Dyke and Kahn. Your sense of what could be on those hard drives and the information that is still out there?
- [39:38]
Maya Wiley
Yeah, I think, you know, this is just another example of how much information can be out there that we might not yet know, certainly publicly don't know. And we don't know what the Department of Justice knew when it was undergoing these investigations. I mean, hard drives are really important for investigations because even if you delete something or otherwise shred it or try to get rid of it can still be found on the hard drive. So it could be incredibly important to understanding both who Jeffrey Epstein was in contact with, what those communications were, who knew what, I mean, so there's no limit to what it potentially could tell us. We don't know how much new information it would have or not have. But the point is it's critical to know. And it's not only critical to know, it's critical to know what law enforcement knew. It's critically important to know what this current administration knew. I mean, we've just been talking about how one of the devastating things about this current administration is it has so undermined trust in a federal agency, the Department of Justice, the FBI, that is supposed to serve the people, that is supposed to operate, particularly when it comes to prosecutions, without political aims, but only the aims of making sure that we know who's committed a crime. If they committed one, they're punished for it. This has laid bare the fact that we need and must continue to push for transparency and to hold this Department of Justice accountable and require that there be much more sunlight so that we can try to reestablish some faith and trust in government, but also so that survivors can be getting the information they deserve and need.
- [41:24]
Alicia Menendez
When you listen to the depositions from Indyck and Khan, right, Epstein's attorney, his accountant, is it plausible to you that they had just no idea what was happening?
- [41:35]
Dani Bensky
I mean, it's hard to believe for sure. I think something that sticks with me every day is that they were never questioned, right? That they were never. And Wexner was never questioned about anything in the Epstein orbit. So something that I was thinking about personally was like the law, law enforcement, the FBI is bringing in all of us, right, at 17, 18, 19 year olds, right, and talking to us, but they didn't question the top down. They never started with the money, right, with where the money exists. So that just felt. It just feels like it's always more of an example of how systems have failed us time and time again. And now I'm looking at this case and I'm feeling Like, there are two different cases that are happening, right? We have the co conspirator or bit that Jeffrey had running, and then we also have the problems with the DOJ and about how systems have failed. And they're two completely different cases at this point that survivors are up against.
- [42:38]
Alicia Menendez
And you're smart to say that because narratively I think they are often collapsed. Do you feel like one of those two cases is farther along?
- [42:46]
Dani Bensky
A good question. I'm hoping that the Epstein orbit and co conspirators is a little bit further along. I mean, I just got back from the UK where we met with Parliament members and the response was incredible. And basically they're saying, how do we continue to toe the line of accountability? What can we do? How can we help? So to see that from just the way it's playing out on such an international scale is incredible because I think survivors really are in this Washington, D.C. bubble a lot of the time, and that feels sort of like we're beating our head against the wall. So to go to it's the truth. So, like, to go to the UK and have a parliamentarian sit down next to you and just say, like, how do I help you? It was like, wow, my mind is blown.
- [43:28]
Alicia Menendez
The contrast between how it has been handled on the global stage as opposed to how it has been handled here in the United States is, in fact, mind blowing. NI Bensky, you're amazing. Thank you so much.
- [43:36]
Dani Bensky
Thank you so much.
- [43:37]
Alicia Menendez
Maya Wiley, thank you so much for being with us. A quick break. We're going to be right back. This week is a brand new episode of the Best People podcast, and Nicole's guest is a very familiar face to viewers of this network. Nicole sat down with our friend Alex Wagner, host of Runaway country, on Crooked Media. Listen to what Alex told Nicole about how Donald Trump is betraying his own MAGA followers.
- [44:03]
Prolon Advertiser
I had been just hearing all this chatter and like, some like, loose reporting about how people were ready to take up arms for Trump and these militias, a lot of whom were in Georgia, were ready to go ham. And I said, let's talk to them. And so we reached out and they were interested in speaking, I think in part because they were like, no, we're really serious about this. And they like the idea that they're conjuring fear in the hearts of libs.
- [44:26]
Alicia Menendez
Right.
- [44:26]
Prolon Advertiser
That's a huge part of the appeal
- [44:27]
Maya Wiley
of being in MAGA and precious Republicans.
- [44:30]
Prolon Advertiser
Totally. And just displaying their unwavering support for Trump and their deep conviction that the system was rigged. I mean, those are the people who are betrayed by both foreign intervention and the Epstein thing because they really buy into this idea, which is not entirely untrue, that a cabal of elites is making decisions that they have to pay for, whether they are women and innocents and children who are trafficked for the delight and to be play toys for the ultra rich, or whether they are working class and middle class boys and girls who are sent overseas and become collateral damage in a war of choice.
- [45:04]
Alicia Menendez
You can listen to Nicole's entire conversation with Alex Wagner right now by becoming a premium subscriber. Sign up by scanning the QR code on your screen. The new episode's going to be available to everyone starting Monday. Another break for us and then we'll be right back. Thank you for spending part of your Friday with us. Fear not, Nicole will be back on Monday and I will be back in one hour alongside Michael Steele and Simone Sanders Townsend for the weeknight. Why have I asked my h vac
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Prolon Advertiser
guy I found on Angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? Because I was so amazed by how quickly he replaced our air ducts, I knew I could trust him to change Pop Ops tube while I was on vacation.
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Political Commentator
Make it quick, young man.
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Tim Miller
Aw, see?
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Alicia Menendez
Pop up trusts you.
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Angela Corazon
I think we should call a doctor.
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Alicia Menendez
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