← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Typically called bribery”
00:44:05
Nicolle Wallace reacts to Disney’s announcement that Jimmy Kimmel will return to television tomorrow and MSNBC exclusive reporting on a DOJ investigation into Tom Homan accepting $50,000 from FBI agents.
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- [00:00]
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Nicole Wallace
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- [00:48]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Download Today. Hi there everyone. He's back. It's 4 o'clock in New York. We come on the air with the breaking news that Jimmy Kimmel is back. His late late night show will resume airing Tuesday. That's tomorrow. That news comes in a statement from the Walt Disney Company which says this about the initial decision to suspend Jimmy Kimmel. Quote it is a decision we made because we felt some of the comments were ill timed and thus insensitive. We have spent the last days having thoughtful conversations with Jimmy and after those conversations we reached the decision to return the show on Tuesday. The news comes after days of a major backlash over ABC's decision to suspend Kimmel's late night program. It came after very public pressure, followed by gloating from FCC chair Brendan Carr. It was a grassroots rebuke, but celebrities amplified those grassroots calls to boycott Disney and abc. Watch.
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Nicole Wallace
Someone's got to step up and be saying, hey, enough.
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Dominic Patton
We're not going to bow. Now it might sound stupid, but the thing I did this morning, I'm canceling my Disney.
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Nicole Wallace
I'm trying to say with the pocketbook that I do not support what they're doing with Jimmy.
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My whole family is really going to miss Abbott Elementary. We are really going to miss only murders in the building.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
But you know what?
- [02:17]
OnDeck Advertiser
We would miss the First Amendment a whole lot more.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Don't go to the theme parks.
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OnDeck Advertiser
Don't go on the cruises. Cancel your subscriptions.
- [02:26]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Stars including Olivia Rodrigo, Rosie o', Donnell, Conan o', Brien, Jean Smart, Wanda Sykes, Julia Louis Dreyfus, Ben Stiller, Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, Ben Affleck, Lin Manuel Miranda, Robert De Niro and many, many others who spoke out and signed letters condemning the decision to take Kimmel off the air. The outrage, though, also came from inside the Disney family itself. Fuck. News reported that musicians Sarah McLaughlin and Jewel pulled out of scheduled performances at the premiere of a new Disney documentary in protest. Marvel actors Pedro Pascal, Mark Ruffalo and Marisa Tomei all condemned Kimmel's suspension. And Damian Lindelof, he's the creator of the TV show Lost, pledged not to work with the network ABC ever again over Kimmel's suspension. Kimmel was also a topic on the View today. It's a show that is another frequent target of Donald Trump. He's pretty obsessed with that program. Today host Ana Navarro said the decision to bench, to cancel Kimmel reminded her of the authoritarian governments under which she lived. Watch that. The part that I don't understand that is so ironic to me is how the horrible, senseless assassination of Charlie Kirk, a man I disagreed with, but who stood for debate, who stood for freedom of speech, is being used to silence people and cancel people. I lived through a right wing dictatorship in Nicaragua, Somoza. I lived through a left wing dictatorship in Nicaragua under Ortega. This is what dictators and authoritarians do. It does not matter the ideology. At first they come with a for the people with big platforms. At first the silence, the press, but then they come for all of us. That's where we start today with Dominic Patton, executive editor@deadline.com, also joining us, host of the Bulwark Podcast, MSNBC political analyst Tim Miller's here and former senior advisor to President Biden and Vice President Harris, former mayor of New Orleans, Mitch Landrieu is at the table. Dominic, so much happened, so much transpired. But I want your assessment, your analysis, your sort of expert view on what mattered.
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Dominic Patton
Well, first of all, Nicole, I just want to inform your viewers I am not Mayor Mitch's son or nephew, but thank you very much for having us on together as always. Look, we have been following this throughout the days that this happened. You know, I've been on with you talking about how there were talks happening almost right after it happened. But I think there were some pivotal events that happened over the weekend. I think President Trump at the Charlie Kirk Memorial and his raging against his enemies, including Jimmy Kimmel, very publicly. I think Howard Stern this morning announcing that he had canceled his Disney plus subscription, which was something that was obviously brewing out there. And I think the 400 big names, including the likes of Meryl Streep, that signed an ACLU letter today. I think that this was something that was starting to put a lot of pressure on the very media sensitive and critic, Critical, critical, sensitive. Bob Iger, the CEO of Disney, and of course the Disney Entertainment boss, Dana Walden. They wanted to find a pathway to find Kimmel back. They found one, clearly. But what is going to be very interesting, and we're digging into this right now, is what are the details? What's the fine print of that return? What is he going to say tomorrow night?
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Let me show you some of what you're talking about. This is John Oliver's direct plea to Bob Iger.
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Tim Miller
One day, the history of the time we're living through is going to be written. And when it is, I'm not sure it's those in this administration who are even going to come off the worst. Now, don't get me wrong, they're going to come off terribly, but history is also going to remember the cowards who definitely knew better, but still let things happen, whether it was for money, convenience, or just comfort. If we've learned nothing else from this administration's second term so far, and I don't think we have, is that giving the bully your lunch money doesn't make him go away. It just makes him come back hungrier each time. They are never going to stop. They've literally said that openly. Instead of rolling over, why not stand up and use four keywords they don't tend to teach you in business school. Not, okay, you're the boss, not whatever you say goes, but instead, the only phrase that can genuinely make a weak bully go away, and that is you make me. And now.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
I guess what I want to understand is, did Bob Iger do this from a position of strength or weakness?
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Dominic Patton
I mean, I wouldn't say either one of those. Nicole. I don't think it's a binary situation. I think that they made a business decision. I think that, as John Oliver said, it was one that was based on a sense that they thought Trump would be a transactional person. Clearly, he is not. Clearly his, his, his wingman, Brendan Carr is not. And that they, as they, as John and Oliver so rightly put in, as we've said before a deadline, he just comes back for more. It's a, it's an, it's a, it's a feast for him. The bullying, the, the intimidation, the authoritarianism. So I think Iger tried to make what he was a decision. Remember what this happened was, was Brendan Carr started Talking about the FCC looking into stuff. Disney has a big deal with fubu, the sports streamer that it's trying to secure. But more importantly, perhaps his affiliate owners like Sinclair and nex, big deals that they're trying to get approved by the government. And they carry a lot of ABC affiliates, 32 stations I believe, for Nextar, who own a total of 200 stations around the country. So these were big decisions. How are you going to put on a show that maybe isn't being seen by not large but significant swaths of the country? I think that they made this decision in the hopes perhaps behind the scenes that somebody would blink. Nobody did. Now what's happened with a few days and everyone a little sober thought maybe some cold water in the face and they've come to some sort of agreement. But again, so much goodwill has been lost, so much backlash. You know, look, we live in a new cycle where people forget everything that happened two days ago. I haven't heard the word Jeffrey Epstein in more than 24 hours, so who knows. But I will say this. I think that this one is going to have a long standing taint on the legacy of Bob Iger who's set to depart the Walt Disney Company at the end of next year and Dana Walden who is looked as is one of the possible contenders for his job. It's going to be a hard road back. What Kimmel will say tomorrow might help define the terms of that return.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Let me read you one more development from the weekend. This is former Disney CEO Michael Eisner. He tweeted this quote. Where is all the leadership gone if not for university presidents, law firm managing partners and corporate chief executives standing up against bullies. When will they step up for the First Amendment? The suspending and definitely of Jimmy Kimmel immediately after the chairman of the FCC's aggressive yet hollow threats is another example of out of control intimidation. Maybe the Constitution should have said, Congress shall make no law breaching the freedom of speech or of the press except in one's political or financial self interest. By the way, for the record, this ex CEO finds Jimmy Kimmel very talented and funny. I don't know either of these men. But I'm told, Dominic, that there are not enough room in a room for both of their shadows. What impact did that have?
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Dominic Patton
Well, look, I will say this, Nicole. First of all, I would like to get you a cup of tea. I'm sorry, I can't. Secondly, I'd like to say, look, The Walt Disney Company does have a history of ex CEOs sniping each other. And certainly Michael Eisner, when he was pushed aside for Bob Iger back in the early 2000s, wasn't too happy. But the two of them are quite close. So this was a real shock when we wrote this story. After, after this tweet came out, the reaction was very strong. Again, some people called it the tipping point that might tip it over. Was it or not? We don't know. But a weekend came in between and now we have a deal. But it certainly was a harsh spotlight from one well respected individual in Hollywood still on his successor. And that must have really stung.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Over in Burbank, Tim Miller. Let me show you what the public saw, what the public saw in the immediate aftermath. Before people could convene meetings on high, high floors of fancy buildings, the American people heard this from some of the country's most belove voices in comedy. This is Seth Meyers and Stephen Colbert and David Letterman.
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Tim Miller
We must all stand up for the principles of free expression. There's a reason free speech is in the very first Amendment. It stands above all others. With an autocrat, you cannot give an inch. And if ABC thinks, if ABC thinks that this is gonna satisfy the regime.
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Dominic Patton
They are woefully nai go around firing.
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Nicole Wallace
Somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office.
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Tim Miller
That's just not how this works.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Your first reaction?
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Tim Miller
Well, my action is good. And finally, kind of, finally we've seen this from a corporate leader who has been targeted by this administration, who has done the thing that we've suggested on this program and a lot that John Oliver put so succinctly on his show, which is the administration f you make me. And like, that's been. That was the most frustrating thing about this thing from the start, right? Was, you know, this is a threat to the first Amendment. This is Donald Trump, you know, trying to bully and intimidate and silence people. But he was able to do it in kind of his way where he just sends out bleats and he just intimidates and he just says nasty things about people and he makes veiled threats and he hopes that people, people will just fold to his wishes. And way too many people this year, way too many prominent organizations and institutions have just fell, have just folded to his pressure campaign. And you know, throughout all of this, we've said, well, we don't exactly know how far he will go. You know, we know how extreme his rhetoric is. But we also know about Donald Trump, that he is tacoed a lot. He's chickened out a lot. When, when the heat gets, when the heat gets turned up. And so rather than just fold and say, hey, you know, we grant you all of your authoritarian wishes and we're going to fire people to criticize you, and we're going to, you know, give you pro bono legal services and on and on, why don't these institutions say, okay, you want, you want to come after us? You want FCC Chairman Brendan Carr to come after us? Do it. Let's do, let's go to court. Like, we'll see you in court. You want the Department of Justice to go after your political foes? Find a grand jury. Like, find a grand jury that will support your allegations. Right. And, and if you start doing that, then this administration, I think, is going to slowed down quite a bit in their authoritarian aspirations. Then you can see that maybe the pro democracy side can get some wins under their belt. And I think that, to me, that is the big message of this, which was the main issue. As serious as the threats to the First Amendment from the administration was the main issue in this particular case was just how easily people were folding. They did this. They silenced Jimmy Kimmel without any actual tangible threats to them, at least at the Disney level. That might be different when we get down to the affiliate level.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
I mean, the first page of the first chapter of Timothy Snyder's On Tyranny is about obeying in advance. And the first thing that universities and law firms and media companies have done is to, in advance obey. And that has happened while batting.1000 in the courts. So a lot of the elites who say, well, I'm not that worried, I'm going to go ahead and renovate my Hamptons house, they do that because they believe the courts are holding, but they're not willing to put their own skin in the game and use the courts. The law firms that have fought Trump's executive orders have all won. Not a single one of them has lost. And none of the media companies that paid huge sums to Donald Trump took those cases to court. So I wonder what you make of this moment.
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Nicole Wallace
Well, I think it's a good moment. I think it shows people that if you fight back, you can win. There's some basic things that people should remember. It's not a mystery anymore who Donald Trump is or what he wants. He wants everything, and he will take everything if you let him take everything. Appeasement and surrender do not work. If someone uses their power to come after universities or religious institutions, critics, or they go after the press or they go after law firms or they go after banning books. The one common theme there is that they're taking your freedom away. And everybody in the country knows that freedom isn't free. It requires sacrifice. Sacrifice means it's going to hurt. And I have been just really troubled by how many business leaders, university presidents, senior partners in law firms that are making a gabillion dollars, have bent the knee to the idea that is antithetical to what America is. So I knew Bob iga, I was shocked, actually, that he leaned into taking Jimmy Kimmel off there. And I'm thankful that he put him back. But I think that he did really kind of drive a wedge through people's trust about whether institutions will hold. And I think Tim is exactly right that when you push back, you can win. If you don't, Donald Trump is not going to stop. The man does not have a conscience. I think he's demonstrated that time and time again. You saw him the other day at Kirk's funeral where after his wife said, I am going to forgive the killer, which was an unbelievably powerful moment, Donald Trump, instead of saying, I actually represent the entire country, we've gone close to the edge. Let me exercise some self discipline and some empathy and pull back from this, basically said, no, I actually disagree with Charlie Kirk. I hate my enemies. And then he ordered Pam Bondi to go after all of his political enemies. I'm reminded in the late night space of when you think about Lenny Bruce and you think about George Carlin and you think about the thing that makes America great is our ability to redress our grievances against the government. That's, that's in the Constitution. And it's there because if the government is not accountable to the people, if you can't listen to dissent, then you can't become that more perfect union. And I think today, if it doesn't show anybody anything else, when people push back, when we gather together, we can win. Because the thing that's standing between autocracy is the American people. That is the only thing that's left because some of the leaders are not showing up and shame on them for it. But if they go read the letter from Birmingham from Dr. King, maybe they'll kind of rethink their unwillingness to stand up for the things that actually make America important and strong.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
Dominic One of the things that seems to have surfaced is that people in Hollywood are scared. They're scared to speak out and that there have been a lot of examples of bullying and of shaming and of trying to dox folks who speak out on various issues, immigration or whatnot. But this was an issue where there was safety in numbers. Can you just tell me what fears are like in Hollywood right now for actors, writers, producers on just speaking out about our politics in this moment?
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Dominic Patton
I think it's widespread, Nicole. I think that people feel more than a chill. I think they're putting on winter coats in September, to use a figurative example. I think because like Mayor Mitch said, if no one's standing up, you know, I don't maybe to quote President Lincoln paraphrasing because I'm never good at quoting people. General McClellan, if you're not going to use your army, will you please lend it to me? Because I feel like at this junction, be it President Obama or President Clinton or Mayor Mitch or many others, we need people to take to the fore in this, you know, businessmen like Bob Iger. I'm not surprised Bob Iger did this because he gave Donald Trump $15 million last September to settle what was basically an ill considered comment by George Stephanopoulos. But everyone was pretty much assured. And I say this with my legal hat on, was basically a worthless lawsuit, even a slip of the tongue, you know, but he tried to pay him off. He tried to go for it and others, CBS and others, and we can go through them at that, verse and chapter. But the reality is it doesn't work. And what needs to happen for people to understand that is if you really are thinking about your bottom line, if this really is show business, not show friends, then you need to stick up for your bottom line. Because your bottom line is hurt when your company loses streaming subscribers. Your bottom line is hurt when top talent no longer want to work with you. Your bottom line is hurt when people don't feel that you are a safe place for true creative expression, which ultimately after the box office and the ratings, that's what the deal is out here.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
There's so much to say about business leaders, the most successful people in our sort of system, making such reactive and reflexive short term bets, betting that democracy won't be the better brand in 36 months. It seems insane. I want you all to explain that to me. I have to sneak in a break first, but I'm ask all of you to stick around. Also ahead for us, authoritarian is one word for for it, dumb and obvious is another. The latest power grab from Donald Trump and the deeply unsettling nature of his current relationship with his Department of Justice. Also ahead, retracing steps in the Jeffrey Epstein case. What elected officials are now examining, along with a brave word or two from a survivor. And later in the broadcast, some breaking news we've been following this afternoon from the White House as it relates to a controversial new bit of advice for pregnant women. All those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
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- [21:37]
Nicole Wallace
As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda, follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.
- [21:59]
Nicole Wallace
Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter@msnbc.com Project 47.
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Dominic Patton
Absolutely inappropriate.
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Nicole Wallace
Brendan Carr has got no business weighing in on this. But people have to also realize that despicable comments. You have the right to say them, but you don't have the right to employment. This is television for goodness sakes. You have to sell sponsorships. You have to sell commercials. And if you're losing money, you can be fired. But the government's got no business in it and the FCC was wrong to weigh in. And I'll fight any attempt by the government to get involved with speech. I will fight.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
In the category of how bad is he? He's so bad he's lost the likes of Rand Paul and Ted Cruz and many others. Tim, just take me inside. What's happening on the maga Right, well.
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Tim Miller
Look, this is maybe a glimmer of hope. I love when I get to do a rare glimmer of hope on this show. Nicol is like, there are a bunch of issues in which the right is happy to be totally cynical and partisan. Nearly all of them, frankly. And we've seen that with Donald Trump, right, where they've been willing to be lockstep with him and apologize for him, no matter what his corruption is, no matter his cruelty, no matter how non conservative he is. Tariffs, we can go down the whole list. The free speech issue is just so fundamental. It's not even just Republicans, but it's just society wide. It's just such a part of the American fabric. Like anybody that's American is like, this is. It's the First Amendment. Like we are in America. We get to say what we want. Like, we don't have kings, we don't have dictators telling us to shut us up. And it is instinctual for a whole lot of people, not everybody, but a whole lot of people. And that is including some people within the Trump, within the MAGA movement. It includes a lot of the people who are in, like you played all the actors. It's obvious why earlier in the show, why all of them care about this. But that's also true of the podcasters of comedians, comedians of a lot of the manosphere folks. We talk about this. This is just essential for a lot of folks in this country, including a lot of people that, that supported Donald Trump. And so while they're willing to suffer a lot of other indignities and humiliations on his behalf, there's at least some minority percentage of them that start to get their backup. And it's like, hey, you're. I'm not allowed to say what I want. I'm not allowed to criticize people in power. I'm not allowed to make jokes about things that feels very un American. And I think it's a good sign that we've seen some pushback from within his coalition on this, from a bunch of different vectors.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
So this is rare. But I am more cynical politically. It's quicksand. It's toxic. I mean, the only thing you know more, I don't know that there's anything more American than free speech. And so it is politically toxic to be against the free speech movement. To be by movement, I mean the politics around it have largely. All the heat has been on the right and it's been aimed at content, moderation attempts in tech. And so not only are they revealed as hypocrites. But in terms of a value that Americans hold dear, free speech is one that is. I've seen late polling since Kimmel was fired, but I think it's like a 9010 issue. The people that don't think there should be free speech, as you point out, Trump outs himself yesterday before the country and the world saw that, where he says, I hate my enemies, I hate my opponents. I don't wish them well, I hate them. And you've got a domestic agenda that is also political quicksand. Donald Trump has a 30% approval rating on his handle of inflation, which we're told was the central issue in the last presidential election.
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Nicole Wallace
Well, you got a couple of things going on here. Two polars that people need to talk about. One, Donald Trump has been a complete failure as president in reducing people's costs. This is what most people in America want. They can't find a house, they can't pay their car note. They're having to choose between sending their kids to school or paying for groceries. They feel like they're underwater. And Donald Trump is not delivering. He passed one bill, the big, bad, beautiful, ugly bill that essentially is going to now take away health care from millions of Americans, cut Medicaid and close rural hospitals, all at the expense of giving a tax cut to the 1% in the country. And Americans are furious about that. Inflation has gone up. Job numbers have gone down. He's trended in the wrong direction on all the domestic stuff. Subsequently, he's also in chaos internationally. Remember, he said he alone can solve these problems. He's going to shut the war down in Ukraine in the first day. He's going to tell Netanyahu what to do. It's a bigger mess today than it was. NATO is not happy with him. And then you get to the essential crisis that we're having right now. That's the slow boil that people need to key into. And I want to go back to the question you asked a little earlier about are people in Hollywood afraid? Just Americans need to ask themselves when was the last time they felt afraid to do the things they thought they should be able to do? Read whatever book they wanted to read, go to wherever they wanted to go, listen to the stories they wanted to listen to, go to law firms and be protected, go to a school and say what you said that absence of freedom is something Franklin Roosevelt talked to us about when he talked about the four freedoms. And then what Tim was talking about is the right to do certain things. Now all of these things go Back to one place and a fish rots at the head, and it goes to Donald Trump. Nobody in America, not one person, can now deny that they know who Donald Trump is and what he is and what he's going to do. So we all have a stake in this game, because as Rand Paul said and Ted Cruz said, and I hope some other Republicans step up to the plate, this thing goes full circle. Let me just end with this. I used to be the mayor of the city of New Orleans. I want somebody to imagine me going to a public meeting and saying, I am now going to talk. And you may not speak, and by the way, you may not criticize me. And if you do, and if the news stations run a bad story, I'm going to shut you down. I want you to imagine what those town halls look, look like across the country. We would cease to be the America who we are today. And that's why it's not going to stop unless people stand in the breach. And it's going to require every citizen to do what they think is right and not obey in advance for thinking that Donald Trump somehow was going to back up. He's never going to back up. He's going to take everything that you have because he doesn't care about America. He doesn't care about the Constitution. He cares about having power. He cares about retribution, and he cares about making him and his friends rich. That is what drives him. We know that. Nobody can look away from that. Now.
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Nicole Wallace (Host)
I mean, to take your analogy farther, it would be, you set up a task force or a tip line to fire anybody that tweeted or spoke negatively about you. And then you called the state prosecutor's office and said, manufacturer prosecution against my enemies.
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Nicole Wallace
Well, if you're the mayor of a major American city, you can do that really quick because you have a lot of unclassified employees and the DA is right down the street. I mean, you can. If Donald Trump, people think this is just going to stop with the presidency once he sets up the new way to be an autocrat, if you, you can do a lot of bad stuff. And I just think Americans intuitively are going to go, this is just. We have gotten now past the Rubicon on this thing. And so I'm happy, I'm hoping that today is the first step for people finding their courage. Courage isn't the absence of fear, by the way. Courage is really overcoming the fear. And that's why it's important for people to recognize what's actually at stake.
- [29:20]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Right. What is it? Courage is feeling scared and doing the right thing anyway, it's hard to do. Dominic, stay close to your camera. It looks like we're going to need you, Mitch. Thank you, Tim. Thank you all for starting us off today on the breaking news up next for us as we've been discussing alarming developments at the Department of Justice that reveal just how far Trump has already upended the rule of law. Much more. After a quick break, the paper shredders at Netflix are lined with scripts that have been submitted that are less dumb and less obvious than the clunky corruption and power grabs of Donald Trump and his minions. With frantic tweets to Pam to indict the boys and girls who he thinks were mean to him, and bags of cash at Cava for Tom, the deporter in chief, the Trump team has officially jump the shark. Nothing exemplifies Trump's truly desperate efforts to consolidate his grip on the justice system more than his mask off call for Attorney General Pam Bondi, who he called Pam to prosecute his political critics. His Truth Social post read in part, quote, nothing's being done. What about Comey, Adam Shifty, Schiff, Letitia, three question marks. They're all guilty as hell. We can't delay any longer. It's killing our reputation and credibility. They impeached me twice and indicted me five times over. Nothing. Justice must be served now. To that end, the Trump administration forced out the Republican U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, recommended by other Republicans. His name was Eric Siebert. New York Times reports this. Siebert had, quote, recently told senior Justice Department officials that investigators found insufficient evidence to bring charges against Ms. James and had also raised concerns about a potential case against Mr. Comey. So bring in the replacement. Her name is Lindsey Halligan. She's an insurance lawyer who was one of Donald Trump's personal attorneys in the classified documents case. She has no zero prosecutorial experience, much less the kind of experience needed to run the Eastern District of Virginia, which, according to ABC News, quote, handles the bulk of the country's national security cases, end quote. So if the guiding principle of the Trump DOJ is prosecuting and investigating Donald Trump's enemies who he identifies on social media, guiding principle appears to be immunity from prosecution. Trump's call to Bondi to go after another senator, Senator Adam Schiff Titian James came on the same day as brand new exclusive reporting by MSNBC that reveals that White House border czar Tom Holman was under investigation before he got a job in the Trump administration. From that reporting, quote, in an undercover operation. Last year, the FBI recorded Tom Homan, now the White House border czar, accepting $50,000 in cash after indicating he could help the agents who were posing as business executives win government contracts. In a second Trump administration, the FBI and the Justice Department plan to wait to see whether Homan would deliver on his alleged promise once he became the the nation's top immigration official. But the case indefinitely stalled soon after Donald Trump became president again in January. In recent weeks, Trump appointees officially closed the investigation in response to MSNBC's reporting. The White House, the Justice Department and the FBI dismissed the probe as politically motivated. This was not a case of the Biden Department of Justice singling out a critic of the administration. New York Times reports this, quote, the cash payment, which was made inside a bag from the food chain Kava grew out of a long running counterintelligence investigation that had not been targeting Mr. Homan. Joining us now, MSNBC senior investigative correspondent Carol Leonig. That is her reporting on Mr. Homan we just read from. And Andrew Weissman is also here, a former top official at the Department of Justice and an MSNBC legal analyst. Carol, first, let's start with your incredible reporting. Take us inside what you learned.
- [33:40]
Carol Leonig
Nicole, I'm so glad you focused on the issue that we reported for MSNBC about the fact that this investigation did not begin by looking at Tom Holman. The FBI agents in the Western District of Texas were engaged in an entirely different investigation when the subject of their undercover probe kept mentioning that Tom Homan, a very close ally of Donald Trump's and formerly his, his ice, acting ICE director in his last administration, had a scheme to provide federal contracts in the new Trump administration in exchange for payments, which is typically called bribery. And this individual told them this so many times that the FBI agents in Texas concluded they had to begin a separate undercover probe of Mr. Homan. And after numerous conversations, meetings, arrangements, it all culminated in a September 20, 2024 meeting in Texas where the intermediary was also there and Mr. Homan accepted this bag of cash, $50,000 worth. What was striking about this was again, they didn't target Mr. Homan, but they ended up finding him because of another subject and they decided that they should continue, continue monitoring him and make sure did he try to do anything else when he got into public office when he was a public official? But the case stalled as soon as Trump's team took over the FBI and the Department of Justice. And what we learned, Nicole, is that it was shuttered in recent weeks.
- [35:20]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Let me read or let Me. Let me show you what Tom Homan was saying publicly about how close he was going to be to Donald Trump in terms of why he would be bribed or take a bribe.
- [35:35]
Nicole Wallace
You got my word. Trump comes back in January, I'll be on his heels coming back, and I will run the biggest deportation operation this country's ever seen.
- [35:46]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
So, Carol, the marketing of himself as someone who was, in his words, quote, on the heels of Donald Trump and the shuddering of the investigation, all so brazenly and flagrantly political. What do they say in response to the reporting, which I have to say after your scoop, I think a half a dozen news organizations matched it. I mean, no one is denying the basic facts here, except maybe, maybe today the White House had a different story. Just take me through their response.
- [36:19]
Carol Leonig
Yes. So on Saturday, we reached out to the White House and to the Department of Justice and the FBI. And the White House, through Deputy Press Secretary Abigail Jackson, said that this was a baseless probe and another example of the weaponization of the Biden Justice Department targeting Trump. And as you already know through your good questions, this didn't target Mr. Homan or Trump allies. It started somewhere else. The Department of Justice and the FBI in the form of Director Kaj Patel and Dep. And forgive me, Deputy Attorney General, my phone is ringing and I apologize, I'm not going to answer it on air.
- [37:01]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
If it's something good, be my guest.
- [37:05]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [37:06]
Carol Leonig
Dang it. Have to get to that in a minute. The Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanch then said, and FBI Director Cash Patel said this was unfair. There was no credible evidence of any kind of wrongdoing by Mr. Homan. They didn't deny that he took the money. They didn't. That he was engaged in some sort of effort to tell various business people he was trying to help them get contracts. They didn't deny any of that. But what they did say was this. There was no criminal evidence of wrongdoing, nothing credible that they could find, and that's why it was closed.
- [37:47]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Andrew Weissman, let me show you how Chris Murphy put all these stories into a bigger frame of reference for us.
- [37:56]
Tim Miller
This is one of the most dangerous moments America has ever faced. We are quickly turning into a banana republic. I think you have to put it in an even broader context, because there's two things happening. One, you are going to be prosecuted for political speech in this country, but you are also going to be excused.
- [38:14]
Dominic Patton
You are going to be let off.
- [38:16]
Tim Miller
For real, actual criminality. If you are a supporter of the president, witness what happened to every single single violent January 6th protestor let out of jail. See what happened to Tom Homan, his border czar, who literally accepted a bag of cash, $50,000 and the investigation was dropped once Donald Trump became president. So there are just two standards of justice now in this country. If you are a friend of the president, a loyalist to the president, you can get away with nearly anything, including beating the hell out of police officers. But if you are an opponent of the president, you may find yourself in jail.
- [38:52]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
I feel like we've tried for nine years to explain why the assault on the rule of law, which literally happens on day one of the first transition, the first Trump term, matters to everyone. And Chris Murphy does it there better than I've seen anyone do.
- [39:09]
Andrew Weissman
Well, that was terrific. I'm going to go back to one of my go tos here, which is facts matter. One of the things that we heard from the White House today, just with respect to the homage and reporting this sort of remarkable story that Carol and Ken put together is they said, well, you know, he did not take the $50,000 in cash and they think that he was entrapped. Well, according to the reporting, this is something that's taped. In other words, there is a recording. So put this in the, in the bucket of the Epstein files, files. Turn that over. In other words, if you dispute the reporting and you think that the FBI entrapped him, if you think that there was no cash, the cash wasn't given to Homan, that he didn't accept it, there is a tape recording to prove it. So we don't have to just take your word. It's not a he said, she said when you're, when the government is sitting on that evidence. So that is sort of a leitmotif here, which is that you have the government making these representations but unwilling to actually prove up what it is that they are contending.
- [40:26]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
I want to give equal airtime to the other piece of the war on the rule of law, which isn't just dropping cases into political allies, but trying to rub sticks together and manufacture cases around perceived enemies. There were big developments late Friday night about a Republican, Republican nominated Republican suggested Republican backed lifelong Republican in a really important district that I think both of you are familiar with in Virginia who had gone to DOJ and said there's not enough evidence to indict Jim Comey or Tish James. And he is no more. I'll ask both of you about that on the other side of a short break. Don't go anywhere.
- [41:05]
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- [41:36]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay, that no matter who wins a place Presidential Election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody. If you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.
- [41:58]
Nicole Wallace
Deadline White House With Nicole Wallace Weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Each morning, read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch stat moments from your favorite shows.
- [42:15]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
The second Trump administration has gone to unprecedented lengths to radically transform America.
- [42:21]
Nicole Wallace
Stay up to speed with our latest podcasts and documentaries, and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNBC, delivered to your inbox. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [42:37]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
We'Re back with Carol and Andrew. Let me read you this from the New York Times on efforts to prosecute Mr. Comey. Mr. Sieber, who was the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, also recently hit a roadblock in its investigation of Mr. Comey and claims that he lied under oath. Last week, prosecutors from Mr. Siebert's office subpoenaed Daniel Richman, a Columbia law professor and close friend and adviser to Mr. Comey, in connection with an investigation into whether the former director had lied about whether he authorized Mr. Richmond to leak information to the news media, according to people familiar with the situation. Documents released by the FBI in August showed that investigators had examined possible disclosures of classified information to the New York Times. Mr. Richmond's statements to prosecutors were not helpful in their efforts to build a case against Mr. Comey, according to two people familiar with the matter. Andrew what's news here is how intently Donald Trump is still trying to criminalize the bureau and the department against Mr. Comey, who once, who ran both of those institutions, was the deputy attorney general and was the director of the FBI. Mr. Richmond was his close friend. They questioned him about how The Comey memos make their way out into the press to the New York Times. What is your mindset about where this effort goes now? That the Republican and they had the entire first Trump term where they were working on this and spinning their wheels. They've now spent the first nine months of the second Trump term working on this and apparently spinning their wheels. What happens next?
- [44:12]
Andrew Weissman
So I find this just so fascinating because we know who Donald Trump is. We know this story. We know that he, he tried to stay in office when he lost. We know that he wants to bring prosecutions even when they're meritless. To me, this is, you know, it is shocking, but not surprising. I find the thing that is fascinating is that we seem to, and this is going to relate to your story about Disney, is that we seem to have come to a point where the enablers and the accomplices and the people who are complicit have a line. And so the reporting is that the U.S. attorney chosen by Trump just recently said, I can't bring a case if the facts and law don't support it. That you have the U.S. you have the U.S. attorney General Pam Bondi going to bat for him. You have the deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche going to bat for him. It may be that they're doing it for all sorts of political reasons. It may be that they have some moral that they just can't stomach, that they know they've deluded themselves into thinking that they're somehow doing right. But there's just some part of them that knows they cannot bring a case when there's no facts and there's no law. I find that so interesting on the same day that we're seeing Disney sort of, you know, do an about face, that there is something with the people who are needed to enable Donald Trump, Trump pushing back and even though they're his people. So to me, that is the sort of fascinating part of this story, is that there is that tension, that this has gone so far that you have people who are even sort of loyal maga, people chosen for their loyalty saying this is a bridge too far.
- [46:07]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
Yeah, it is where the story is right, because it's where the tension is right now. They control everything. Republicans in Congress don't stand up and to them. So it is a fascinating new place to find the tension. The rub. Carolina, congrats on the scoop. I'm so happy that you are our colleague. Thank you for spending time talking to us. Andrew Weissman, always happy you are our colleague. Thank you for joining us today up next for us, a first of its kind ban coming as a direct response to the immigration raids in California. We'll tell you about it next. California Governor Gavin Newsom is fighting back against the Trump administration's tactic of deploying unidentified and unidentifiable ICE agents to pick people up off the street, signing a bill meant to bar those agents from concealing their identities with face masks. It's believed to be the first ban of its kind in the nation. Here's what the governor said at the bill signing over the weekend.
- [47:04]
Nicole Wallace
The impact of these policies all across this city, our state and nation are terrifying. It's like a dystopian sci fi movie. Unmarked cars, people en masse, people quite literally disappearing. No due process, no rights, no rights. In a democracy where we have rights, immigrants have rights.
- [47:32]
Nicole Wallace (Host)
It is likely to face a challenge in court. So we'll stay on top of that story for you after the break. For us, Donald Trump, Trump cracking down on everything from comedians to prosecutors and fighting corruption. We'll talk about what the world sees when it watches all of this happen, when this is who we are. The next hour of Deadline White House starts after a quick break.