"Voters are practically shouting that they want anything but Donald Trump’s economy"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Voters are practically shouting that they want anything but Donald Trump’s economy"

Podcast: Deadline: White House
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Date: August 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Nicolle Wallace and a panel of political commentators dissect the state of the U.S. economy under President Donald Trump as the midterm elections approach. With only 90 days to go, Wallace explores the electorate’s growing frustration with economic hardship and the increasing disconnect between Trump’s messaging and voter reality. The discussion covers the impact of inflation, tariffs, war, and the perceived corruption at the highest levels of government. Through interviews, panel analysis, and primary voter reactions, the episode makes clear that economic anxiety and anger are central to both Democratic mobilization and Republican vulnerability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Voter Backlash Against Trump’s Economy

• Economic hardship is a top motivator: In Michigan’s Democratic primary, 18% of voters cited the economy as their main issue, nearly as much as outright opposition to Trump and the GOP.
  • Quote: “Voters are practically shouting from the rooftops...they want more than anything is relief from Donald Trump’s economy.” (Nicole, 00:34)
• Abdul El Sayed's victory speech: Highlights affordability struggles and the need for public investment.
  • Quote: “If you believe, like me, that you ought to be able to afford your groceries...join this movement now.” (Abdul El Sayed as cited by Nicole, 01:23)

2. Trump’s Disconnect and Campaigning on the Economy

• Trump’s narrative: Continues to tout his economic record despite widespread discontent, focusing on the "golden age" and blaming Democrats for problems.
• Panel skepticism:
  • “What people? I mean, maybe Elon. Trump might want to actually talk to some of his own voters. Here’s how they grade Donald Trump.” (Nicole, 02:45)
  • Voter grades: Several voters give Trump an "F" for economic management.
    • Quote: “If I could go lower than F, I would right now.” (Angelo Carusone, 03:01)

3. The Real Driver: Day-to-Day Economic Pain

• Inflation, war, and tariffs: Everyday expenses—gas, groceries, homes—are all more expensive, and many blame Trump’s policies directly.
  • Quote: “Everything is more expensive...the total of everything they buy regularly is significantly higher than it was a year ago and two years ago.” (Nicole, 06:03)
• Trump’s self-interest: Panelists argue Trump is primarily concerned with his own wealth and vengeance, not the needs of ordinary Americans.
  • Quote: “He cares about making himself as rich as possible. That is all Trump 2.0 is about. That is 75% of it, and 25% of it is retribution against his enemies.” (John Halman, 06:43)

4. Progressive vs. Mainstream Anger

• GOP’s miscalculation:
  • "The hubris of the Republican Party thinking that real economic despair and anxiety wouldn't come around and boomerang on them is just stunning..." (Nicole, 09:59)
• Progressive energy: Molly Zhang notes progressives are keeping enthusiasm alive amidst a Democratic enthusiasm problem.

5. Media Bubble and Trump's Isolation

• Bubble effect: Trump is increasingly inside an information bubble reinforced by sycophants and select media, losing touch even with his base’s concerns.
  • Quote: “He’s inside the bubble. And the bubble is as delusional as any White House bubble could ever be, except it’s turned up to 100 because of the way our media now works...” (John Halman, 16:36)

6. Corruption and Out-of-Touch Politicians

• Corruption fuels anger:
  • James Tallarico & panel discuss the effect of corruption (e.g., Ken Paxton owning 15 homes), tying economic pain to elite self-enrichment.
  • Quote: “You mentioned that since taking office, he's become a multimillionaire, all while the pay of most Texans has remained stagnant for years, for decades.” (Jacob Soboroff, 24:29)
• Voters’ perceptions: Corruption combined with economic neglect is toxic for the GOP brand heading into midterms.

7. Judicial Nominees & Election Denial

• Nominees duck basic questions: Trump judicial nominees refuse to state plainly who won the 2020 election, raising questions about integrity.
  • Quote: “Let me make this easy. Show us your courage. Show us your independence. Yes or no, did Joe Biden win the 2020 presidential election, yes or no?” (Angelo Carusone, 30:16)
• Panel alarm: Lack of directness is critiqued as cowardice and a threat to the rule of law.

8. GOP Handling of Scandal (Max Miller Allegations)

• No party consensus: Despite credible allegations of domestic abuse against Rep. Max Miller, GOP leadership hesitates to act.
  • Quote: "Taking them seriously is, according to his ex father in law, holding hostage a stuffy.” (Nicole, 39:13)
• Panel worry: Reluctance to address such scandals highlights a lack of moral baseline in the party.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If I could go lower than F, I would right now.” – Angelo Carusone on grading Trump’s economy (03:01)

• “The economy is not good. It’s been objectively not good throughout Donald Trump's presidency...he doesn’t care about the economy as it affects anyone except him in his personal economy.” – John Halman (06:43)

• “Trump is doing the same thing that actually catapulted him in 2016. He has lost touch with the ground truth, the lived reality of his own voters.” – Nicole Wallace (15:51)

• “The sort of in your face ness of Trump's smash and grab of taxpayer dollars and extreme wealth and enriching his family is… toxic for the Republican Party.” – Nicole Wallace (21:00)

• “This is the price of loyalty. This is the price of keeping a job you want from Donald Trump in 2026. Can't tell the truth. You can't say the sentence. Joe Biden won the 2020 election.” – Nicole Wallace (31:06)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:34: Introduction of main theme—voters’ economic pain as a top issue
• 01:23: Abdul El Sayed’s victory speech on affordability
• 03:01: Panel grades Trump’s economic performance (“F”s all around)
• 06:03: Discussion of inflation and daily economic strain
• 09:59: GOP misreads on voter anger and economic pain
• 12:45: Trump’s own words dismissing affordability as a “hoax”
• 16:36: Analysis of Trump’s media bubble and isolation
• 24:29: Jacob Soboroff on Ken Paxton’s wealth and corruption
• 30:16: Judicial nominees dodge 2020 election questions—panel alarm
• 39:13: House GOP inaction on Max Miller scandal

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Panelists/Speakers

• Nicole Wallace (Host)
• John Halman (Puck News)
• Angelo Carusone (Media Matters for America)
• Molly Zhang (Fast Politics & New York Times)
• Melissa Murray (NYU Law Professor)
• Jacob Soboroff (Field reporter/interviewer)

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Tone & Style

The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and at times exasperated—a blend of data-driven analysis and pointed critique. Panelists openly challenge the administration’s narrative, focus on the human impact of policy, and aren’t afraid to use humor or sarcasm to underline points.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a clear, urgent picture of a nation dissatisfied with the Trump administration’s economic stewardship, increasingly vocal in its demand for relief. The panel asserts that Trump’s focus on self-enrichment, aversion to facts, and disconnect from everyday realities are politically toxic—threatening Republicans’ prospects in the midterms and beyond. Corruption, judicial integrity, and party scandal management are examined as symptomatic of a larger crisis in conservative governance and accountability.

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Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

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[John Halman]

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[Host/Announcer]

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[Nicole]

Hi there everyone. It's four o' clock in the east. With the midterms just 90 days away now voters are practically shouting from the rooftops that what they want more than anything is relief from Donald Trump's economy. As voters headed to the polls last night in Michigan, their anger over the Trump economy was one of the main drivers of their choices regarding who to vote for. 18% of Democratic primary voters listed the economy as the main motivating factor for their vote, nearly tied with opposition to Donald Trump and the Republican Party. It is a frustration that the presumptive Democratic nominee for Michigan Senate, Abdul El Sayed, highlighted in his victory speech earlier today after pulling off a razor thin victory in the Senate primary. Watch.

[Angelo Carusone]

Like me, that you ought to be able to afford your groceries if you believe, like me, that you ought to be able to afford your home if you believe, like me, that your tax dollars ought to be invested in you rather than sent somewhere else. If you believe, like me, that you ought to have the guarantee of good health care in this country without some corporation trying to tell you what you cannot have and should not fight for. I hope that you'll join this movement now.

[Nicole]

Despite the overwhelming evidence that what was once Donald Trump's top issue is now a boost for Democrats, Donald Trump is still campaigning hard on his economic record, as if it is some sort of political asset to him and his embattled party. Heading to Las Vegas today to champion his economic policies even as that city struggles under his tariff regime and rising prices due to inflation and the war in Iran. All the while, Trump is demanding that voters give him credit and good grains, the struggles they're facing in their own households. Watch.

[John Halman]

I don't know. Then they in the economy, Trump is at 42%.

[Angelo Carusone]

I shouldn't be.

[John Halman]

We have the greatest economy maybe in the history of the world for any country.

[Angelo Carusone]

We've done a great job. You know, I think we should be given an A plus on the economy,

[John Halman]

but I think that's coming. People are starting to talk about it.

[Nicole]

What people? I mean, maybe Elon Trump might want to actually talk to some of his own voters. Here's how they grade Donald Trump.

[John Halman]

I'm curious if you could give him

[Melissa Murray]

a letter grade overall handling of the economy?

[John Halman]

F. If I could go lower than

[Angelo Carusone]

F, I would right now.

[John Halman]

D minus F. An F. An F. And you were quick on that.

[Host/Announcer]

Why?

[John Halman]

Well, before, before he got voted, he was saying a lot of things that we were promised to get and where is all that? And it still hasn't even happened. And he's still saying all this, which maybe might happen, but hardly it ever happened. So I just never see nothing good from him.

[Nicole]

Donald Trump refusing to face the reality about voters anger with his ailing economy imperiling his party's chances in November's midterm elections is where we start today with some of our favorite experts and friends. Puck News senior political columnist and national affairs analyst John Halman is back. Also back with us, Media Matters for America President Angelo Carason is here and the host of the Fast Politics podcast, contributing writer for the New York Times, Molly Zhang. Past. He's back. Halman, what do you make of not just where Trump's numbers are? I mean, part of me thinks they're actually higher than they should be. 32, 34% is still a third of the country that approves of soaring inflation and a deeply unpopular war in Iran and tariffs that are still inexplicable to most people. But what do you make of how the economy is driving people to the Democratic Party? It's a real about face. How many are on mute? You gotta unmute. How many? Gotta stop and unmute, Start over, take two. How many kill. Still can't hear you. I'm gonna send the question. Is it there? All right, Angelo, your thoughts?

[John Halman]

I mean, look, I mean, it's, it's reality, right? I mean, that's ultimately what it boils down to. He has been selling a story about promises, and you heard it from that one voter. I mean, they were talking about 5, 6% economic growth. They were making all these claims about, you know, a new golden age, which he's still hanging on to. But at the end of the day, it's. People are feeling it in their pockets. You can't avoid the consequences of the bad decisions and bad policies they put in place. And then there's something else on top of it. I think he would have a lot more benefit of the doubt amongst his own people, even with all the bad stuff and the harm that he's caused if he also didn't, while creating those effects, consistently tell everybody how much he doesn't actually care about their situation, how much he's focused on all these other random things. And even when the concept of affordability comes up and he's bragging about a golden agent of America, he calls it fake that it's made up by Democrats, even though his own people are explaining this, even people, even candidates are now worried, Republican candidates about affordability. So that's the lay of the land. He's sort of making it worse for himself with his own policies and calcifying it with his own conduct and behavior and communications.

[Nicole]

You know, Halman, I think you're back with us. There is this tendency, I think, to separate out stories about the economy from stories about corruption and grift. But for voters, they've collapsed onto themselves, right? Like what they are dealing with is every time they drive past the gas station, to say nothing of filling up their cars, every time they go to the grocery store or to Walmart or to Target, everything is more expensive. And then the total of everything they buy regularly is significantly higher than it was a year ago and two years ago. But every time they turn on the TV or look at any news from Washington, Trump is painting something gold.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Angelo Carusone]

And I just want to say, Nicole, I think maybe the thing that people have been trying to do to me my entire life, which is mute me, you finally got that to happen on the show. Never understand how it happened, but it happened first time, first time, first time. Like, half of the people in my life are like, where's that button? Let's find that button. I'll have it on all the time. I, I think, you know, the, the, the economy is not good. It's been objectively not good throughout Donald Trump's presidency, and he ran on the economy, as we all know, we've talked about this a million times in 2024. It's the biggest miracle is the fact that people who are around Trump somehow got him to focus on the economy in 2024, when, as we has become abundantly clear throughout these first 18 months or whatever it's been of Trump 2.0, he doesn't care about the economy as it affects anyone except him in his personal economy, Right. He cares about making himself as rich as possible. That is all Trump 2.0 is about. That is 75% of it, and 25% of it is retribution against his enemies. He does not care. And you see the reporting from, if you go back and really look at the 2024 campaign, you realize that it was like he didn't care about the economy then either. And he says it to people openly, says the economy bores me. I don't know what he's going to say in Nevada tonight, but if it's anything like what he has said every time else he's gone out on the campaign trail to talk about the economy, it has been clear that he does that. He's not invested in it, doesn't care about it, has no real sense of what's going on in the world. And more kind of the other thing he was bored by and doesn't care about is the fate of the Republican Party. And so he's worse than being disengaged with it. He mocks it in his, in what his statements are. It says affordability is a hoax. And, and it's a witch hunt or it's a, it's a hoax, it's a fairy tale. Democrats that the media making it up. Republic, you know, my economy is the best in the world. I don't think he believes any of that because I don't think he thinks about this all day. He thinks about all day the renovation projects. I think Maggie Haberman said in an interview the other day that she thought 70% of Trump's mindset of his mind share is now on renovating things, building monuments to himself, anything. It's like a building project that is designed to kind of, in his mind, not allow history to erase him when he's gone is three quarters of the mindset. And the other remaining set is about retribution. And voters can see that. Your point is he's always talking about when he's on camera anywhere is one of those two things. He's not talking about them, he's not talking about their lives. And the things he's done have made the problem worse. And voters may not be, you know, the average voter may not be an absolute economic or political genius, but they are not idiots. And they can see those two things. The economy sucks. No one in the White House cares about me or is doing anything about it. And the consequences of that, you know, barring some unforeseen events between now and November, the consequences of that are now kind of blaring through a lot of these primary results just in terms of what voters are telling us is motivating them to turn out again. The Michigan primary turnout was, was absolutely off the, off the charts last night. It's because Democrats and independents are pissed and they're going to vote November, too.

[Nicole]

Yeah, I mean, look, I think some Republican voters are pissed, too, Molly. And what, what confounded Democrats About Trump for 10 years has been that people's desire to have what Trump has talked a good game about, a quote, hot economy for 10 years, has been a political boon to his party. Even while he's been caught on tape talking about grabbing women between the legs. Even while he's had, you know, mask off moments about the KKK and racism and extremism even beyond January 6th. And the hubris of the Republican Party thinking that real economic despair and anxiety wouldn't come around and boomerang on them is just stunning considering what they've sort of taken on politically, what they've tolerated from Trump. The smears against Democrats, when people are literally making choices about how much gas to put in because filling up screws the weekly food and necessities budget is not something that's going to be easily smeared with the usual tricks and tropes that they trot out against Democrats.

[Molly Zhang]

Yeah, and it's only going to get worse because remember, the BBB has cuts to snap. So think about if you are a Republican voter on snap, which of which there are many who and Donald Trump told you that you were running. I mean, they're liberal. There are Democrats and Republicans both on snap. You believed that Donald Trump was going to make things cheaper. You'll remember he ran on this thing called, you know, there was a weave. He did weave on bacon how he was going to make bacon cheaper. He said it was going to make it cheaper. He gets in office, he does things that actually do the opposite. Tariffs, war in the Middle east, gas becomes more expensive. A lot of other stuff become more expensive because of the tariffs. And then you're about to lose SNAP assistance. I mean, it's just completely a very problematic split screen. And then you have Donald Trump and he's rebuilding the helipad. Right. Cuz he wants to move it so he can land the helicopter closer to the White House. And he's working on the reflecting pool. Right. And he's fighting with his attorney general over the reflecting pool. And he's put his name up on the Kennedy center and now there's a tarp there. So you can't, I mean, it just feels very out of touch to see what Donald Trump is focusing on.

[Nicole]

Let me show you. Angelo. Of all the times Donald Trump has said and done what everyone is talking about on camera, like he, the thing with this story is he's not embarrassed about not giving a crap about people's economic despair. Here he is saying it on camera.

[John Halman]

This is the golden age of America. Affordability is a hoax. It's a conjunct. I think affordability is the greatest conjunct.

[Angelo Carusone]

But will you sign that housing bill? It's a yawn.

[John Halman]

Something which is wonderful to me compared to the Save America act, just about

[Angelo Carusone]

everything is a big yawn.

[Nicole]

Angela, one of the things that we're going to learn about is how the appetite for conspiracy theories competes with the appetite for affordable groceries, gas and housing. Because Donald Trump is making his base, his hardened base, choose.

[John Halman]

Yeah, he is. And you know, he repeats these things. He looks. He sounds ridiculous, right? And he sounds ridiculous if you have the larger context of reality behind you. But he doesn't have that right. He's surrounded by sycophants, so no one's actually giving him any real perspective. Not that he would necessarily listen. And then we shouldn't ignore the fact that he's not connected to the zeitgeist in any meaningful way anymore, right? He doesn't use, you know, X or, you know, truth. Social is mostly just sort of this weird mixture of AI slop and nonsense. So he's not actually connected to that. He doesn't listen to the podcast. So what he gets basically is Fox News or Newsmax. And if you're just listening to that, you're hearing two things. You're hearing that Trump is a savior, that actually he's done so much to get us out of the hole that Biden did in the East. And their metric is the stock market. And that's what he uses. There's the gold veneer that he puts on the economy is the stock market. Hannity, Ingram, a whole bunch of others will say this, right? Wow, look at him. He did a great job. And to the extent that any bad economic news gets through, he they'll blame Democrats. So those are two parts of the larger media landscape. They're not all singing in lockstep anymore. They're either declaring victory or blaming Democrats for some of the hard issues that are currently happening now. But then there's this sort of third bucket of people out there that are the realists, like the Megyn Kelly's, like the Will Caynes, like a bunch of podcasters that are really closer. They're closer to the audience, they're closer to the ground. They don't get an immediate reward system just by toeing the line for Trump. They're out there saying, the economy is terrible, we have to do something about it. Republicans could still maybe turn it around, but they have to focus on the economy. They're thinking beyond Trump. And that's partly why he continues to hammer away at this. Just like he went into Iran in very large part because of his media diet. No, we can't dissect that from the reality that we're all living in. And his own reality and worldview is that it not just sort of reinforces the bubble and what he thinks. It's not just a tool for building and organizing political power, which it certainly is when all of them are saying the same thing that he is saying. But it's also a mechanism of feedback loop by which he acts on. So in some cases it drives us into war and in some cases it lets him continue to propagate these delusional arguments about the economy instead of pivoting even the slightest bit. And that is why he's going to continue to dig in on this. Nothing is going to change there because none. There's no sign that any of those media outlets are going to change their approach either.

[Nicole]

You know how I think I spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about how we got here. And Trump is a reaction right from his predecessors not having their ear to the ground in terms of the lived reality of Republican primary voters. So they no longer feel seen when Republicans like Mitt Romney and John McCain and George W. Bush are talking about free trade and American foreign policy. That just feels crappy to a lot of people. It feels like these endless wars far away. Trump is doing the same thing that actually catapulted him in 2016. He has lost touch with the ground truth, the lived reality of his own voters.

[Angelo Carusone]

Yeah, I would say actually that I totally agree with that, Nicole. And I think I go further than what Angelo said. I think Angelo's basically right. But it's been amplified by the fact that it's not even that Trump is getting just news from right wing media or Fox News. He's getting a filter of that. He gets most of his information from Natalie Harp, the woman who trails him around and feeds him only the most delusional Trump conspiracy theories and things that praise Trump. He's got like a subs. He's got like a, a kind of like on steroids version of the Earth 2 reality that gets portrayed in some of that media because he's got like basically literally a human filter who follows him around and knows exactly what it is that he wants to hear and be told. So it's, it's again, it's that that phenomenon on steroids. And as we know, he doesn't really go out of the White House anymore. Very rarely travels anywhere. He doesn't do the rallies. He's basically, you know, he has, all these are characteristic problems of second term presidents, which is, you know, as you know. Well, you know, the thing about the White House being like the most comfortable prison in the federal penitentiary system is the bubble of that is a seduction for anybody who's in that office that's particularly tends to suck people in in their second terms. And then you've got all, with Trump, you've got the amplification of that, which is that he doesn't, he actively doesn't like to travel, he doesn't like to sleep away from home, he doesn't like to spend a night away from his own bed. He never really liked that. Even when he was first running in 2016, he would always fly back to his apartment. And now he basically doesn't have to go anywhere. So he doesn't go anywhere and he's not even hearing from his own base in the, in the moments when he had the best fingertip feel for it, which was in going to actually at least going to try these lines out in the setting of rallies and being able to see what their reaction, what they didn't react to. He doesn't do that, doesn't do that anymore. He's, he's inside the bubble. And the bubble is as delusional as any White House bubble could ever be, except it's turned up to 100 because of the way our media now works and the way in which he's constructed the filters to even the most biased form of right wing media. I mean, I think he maybe believes some of the stuff he's saying, but all of that is undergirded by the fact he just doesn't care about this issue and about the people it affects. He cares only about retribution and self enrichment.

[Host/Announcer]

That's it.

[Angelo Carusone]

That's all he's doing and decorating.

[Nicole]

I feel like we could rewire the televisions to HDTV all day and like save a bunch of people from war in Iran and save a bunch of perceived political enemies from arbitrary prosecution. Save Jeanine Pirro from a rebuke from. I feel like if you could just, you know, change his algorithms, I know all the design influence, you know, we could, we could fix this thing. All right. No one's going anywhere. There's more ahead for most people who won in 2020 is, you know, like a, a thing that an 8 year old can answer a very straightforward question. But if you're Kevin Warsh or Jay Clayton or we learned today one of Donald Trump's judicial Nominees, it's an impossible question to answer. We'll show you the state of Trump's judicial nominees. Plus the snowballing controversy surrounding alleged domestic abuser. Republican Congressman Max Miller drags on House Speaker Mike Johnson saying he wants to check notes, see the process play out okay. And later in the broadcast, despite the charges being dropped over completely fabricated claims that there was vandalism that contributed to the destruction of the reflecting pool, the people accused of that fake crime are speaking out about what abuse of power inside the DOJ looks like on the outside. All those stories and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[John Halman]

One of the richest nations in the

[Molly Zhang]

world, if not the richest. I've lived around the world.

[John Halman]

Other countries, China, Korea, Poland, Denmark, all

[Nicole]

of those countries I've lived in, they all have health care for all. You know, it's just absurd to me

[John Halman]

that people in this country are dying

[Nicole]

unnecessarily because they don't have access and

[John Halman]

suffering living, you know, a bad life

[Nicole]

because they don't have basic access to basic health care. We're back with John, Angela, and Molly. So, Molly, I think there is a real danger in what we all agree is Trump's perceived delusions about the country and about what he cares about for the rest of the Republican Party. And I know we're all done waiting for Republicans to break with him and it's too late, 90 days out anyway to do that. But what they are giving rise to is a real appetite for the same kind of sort of radical shift in terms of people's relationship with the government that fed, you know, almost a Bernie Sanders nomination for president. People are really, really seeing the extreme and grotesque wealth. We have a trillionaire. He's the president's buddy. There are stories in local papers about all the private jets because first class isn't enough for the uber rich in this country. The, the, the sort of in your face ness of Trump's smash and grab of taxpayer dollars and extreme wealth and enriching his family is an incredibly toxic political brand for the Republican Party, not just heading into the midterms, but heading into the next presidential.

[Molly Zhang]

Yeah. And, you know, I think the irony here is that Trump really caught a populist wave in 2016. I mean, he caug Bernie populism. He said he was going, you know, he said he was going to make things cheaper. He said he was going to help people. He said he was going to make the economy work for them. Now, he was, he had no plans for that. But it was a real thing that people hungered for. And I think that as wealth inequality has grown, as we've seen more and more people feeling that they're, you know, they can't keep up or that the life that their parents had is not available for their children, that is extremely traumatic. And remember, the whole point of tariffs, even though it didn't work and it just made things more expensive, the whole point of tariffs was to onshore manufacturing, was to bring manufacturing back to America. Now, we know that it's very complicated to get manufacturing back to America, and you can't just make things more expensive to do it. But that was the point here. And so I do think, look, Democratic Party has an enthusiasm, enthusiasm problem. And what these progressives have is a lot of voter enthusiasm. So I think in my mind, the sort of secret sauce here is getting that is keeping that enthusiasm while still having candidates who can win. And I think that's going to be the real test.

[John Halman]

Can I just quickly say hello to you? For me, being a part of this place has always been about the people, not about the politics. Why are you holding this sign?

[Jacob Soboroff]

You ever been to a protest before?

[Angelo Carusone]

Be safe.

[John Halman]

People that we cover who allow us to enter their lives.

[Jacob Soboroff]

How's everybody doing?

[John Halman]

Everybody doing okay? How long you guys been in line? I love human beings. To spend time connecting with them is

[Jacob Soboroff]

the biggest blessing that I could ask for.

[Host/Announcer]

From the field to the studio, Jacob is finding the heart of the story. Connect with Jacob soboroff weekends at 10am

[John Halman]

Eastern on Ms. Now, there's also a

[Nicole]

generational thing going on with Democratic primary voters. Let me show you. James Tallarico. Angelo. I'm with my colleague Rachel Maddow.

[Jacob Soboroff]

I didn't think it was possible to find a candidate worse than Ted Cruz, but I think we found him in Ken Paxton. I mean, this is the most corrupt politician in our state, one of the most corrupt in the entire country. You mentioned that since taking office, he's become a multimillionaire, all while the pay of most Texans has remained stagnant for years, for decades. He now owns 15 homes while most Texans can't afford one. He's taken bribes from wealthy donors, all while he blocks overtime pay for Texas workers and guts our healthcare. You just saw this month that he's taken these lavish vacations to Iceland, to England on the 4th of July. Quite a decision to spend our 250th anniversary from the British.

[Angelo Carusone]

From where?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Yeah, right. He was with the British on that anniversary. And most Texans can't afford to Take a vacation, given this cost of living crisis. So Ken Paxton's corruption is costing us in the state of Texas. And it's why the people closest to Ken Paxton know he's unfit for office.

[Nicole]

So, Angelo, Ken Paxton is the nominee because Trump endorsed him, because he was pissed at Cornyn about something I don't even remember. But voters don't like people with more than one house. I remember when Mitt Romney, I think he had like eight or he couldn't remember. And it was almost a near campaign death, death blow. This is a guy with 15 houses in a state where the economic downturns have a real impact.

[John Halman]

Yeah. I mean, and it's not just that he is. He has all that stuff. Right, which is on his face, a political issue. He's now pivoting, ironically, to affordability.

[Melissa Murray]

Right.

[John Halman]

He's running ads now saying that the American dream is dying in front of us, is no longer accessible to people, that health care is not affordable. Completely contradicting Trump, by the way. I mean, if Trump were to see a Fox News host say something like that, he would blow his stack like he would lose his mind. And yet you have Ken Paxton out there who's completely running opposite of the very argument that Trump is making. But let's put that aside. That pivot, though, actually only draws that issue more into focus because it shows just how out of touch he is, because he's trying to speak about something that he has not credibility on. There's another layer to this too, and James Tyreka was talking about it. He said the word corruption, it's a big thing because it's one of the extra through lines of the. It's one thing that things are bad. It's another thing when the establishment is completely not paying attention to people. But now they're going one step further. They, the establishment, the people who have power, that have been in power for a long time, are now engaging in rank corruption, which sucks day to day. But more importantly, the corruption has a direct effect on the people already suffering. It means that everything costs more for them as a result of the corruption. So there are the layers to this. And in a moment where there's not just an anti establishment wave and all these economic concerns. So he seems out of touch. There also is another factor here which is that people are really upset about corruption from Trump on down. It is a catalyst to help them think about some of these issues. It helped put a lot of the focus on Trump's economic callousness, as John was talking about before, into focus for some of his supporters, because, like, wait a minute, you are, you are so corrupt. You're doing all this corrupt stuff, and you also don't care about me. That's terrible. So there's pieces here, which I think the Takri really was right over the target there. There are three layers to this Paxton part, and each of them alone are devastating. When you add them all up, it's a real problem for them, at least.

[Nicole]

It's amazing. So it's 10 years in and we're, and we're post Access Hollywood, post Charlottesville. And it is corruption coupled with this incredible indifference to people's economic pain that is the first character assault on Trump that is stuck from the right. You know, it's like the first, the first time they've thought, maybe he isn't such a great guy. Maybe he doesn't care about us. Just fascinating to watch it play out in real time. Molly and Angela, thank you so much for starting us off today. Howman sticks around after the break. Democratic senators today urging their colleagues on the other side of the aisle to stop Donald Trump's election denying judicial nominees. We'll show you what that looked like and sounded like next. A number of Donald Trump's nominees for the Judiciary and Department of justice show just how loyal they are to Trump and his lies today in a nomination hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Democrats on the panel used the hearing to give these nominees, who will be tasked with upholding the rule of law, an opportunity to make clear they will tell the truth and differentiate themselves from Trump's other political appointees, people like Jay Clayton and Kevin Warsh, and admit that Joe Biden won the 2020 election. Here's how that went.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Judge Cook, who won the 2020 election?

[Angelo Carusone]

A joint session of Congress certified that Joseph Biden won the election.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Who won the popular vote in the 2020 election?

[Angelo Carusone]

So if you look at each state, the governor, under one of our acts, is required to certify.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You're essentially unwilling to tell me who won the 2020 election. Who won the popular vote? Judge Cronin, you're already on the district court. Who won the 2020 election?

[Angelo Carusone]

Senator, under the constitutional system, and in particular the 12th Amendment, Joseph Biden received

[John Halman]

the majority of Electoral college vote.

[Jacob Soboroff]

You really have nothing to lose. You're on the court with a lifetime appointment, and yet you're unwilling to state the simple fact that Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

[Angelo Carusone]

Let me make this easy. Show us your courage. Show us your independence. Yes or no, did Joe Biden win the 2020 presidential election, yes or no?

[John Halman]

The United States Congress.

[Angelo Carusone]

Oh, there you go, sir.

[John Halman]

Stop.

[Angelo Carusone]

Federal court said he did. President's own attorney general said yes. President's own cybersecurity director said yes. This is the pivotal question. Can you please tell me a yes or no answer?

[Jacob Soboroff]

Tell me no.

[Angelo Carusone]

I can't give you a yes or no answer if that's your answer. Yes or no, did President Biden win the 2020 elections?

[Jacob Soboroff]

The United States Congress certified, Sir, you are showing cowardice.

[Nicole]

Of course it's an easy question. And of course this is a new low. Donald Trump himself said this, quote, I can't believe I lost to that effing guy to Sarah Matthews as she testified before Congress. But this is the price. This is the price of loyalty. This is the price of keeping a job you want from Donald Trump in 2026. Can't tell the truth. You can't say the sentence. Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

[Host/Announcer]

Now you can watch Ali Velchi five nights a week in primetime on Ms. Now as he takes command of the 11th hour.

[Angelo Carusone]

Breaking news in the last hour, the

[Host/Announcer]

11th hour with Ali Belshee, weeknights at 11:00pm Eastern on Ms. Now I want

[Nicole]

to bring in our coverage. NYU law professor and legal analyst Melissa Murray Hamlin is still here. Melissa, your thoughts?

[Melissa Murray]

Well, it is a shocking thing to look at. These are people who are, as you say, going to be charged with upholding the rule of law and they can't say something as straightforward as who won the election. I will note one of those nominees, John Cronin, the one in the center, was a year ahead of me at Yale Law School. So I know that he knows what the rule of law requires. This suggests that they are performing for an audience and it's an audience of one. And it is one person who wants a particular answer. And these individuals are being incredibly evasive talking about certification and the popular vote as opposed to saying in a full throated way that Joe Biden won. I will also note that in addition to refusing to state who won the 2020 election, a number of the Trump nominees to both the judiciary and executive offices have refused to say that Brown versus Board of Education, the 1954 decision that said separate but equal was inconsistent with the Constitution. They refused to say in a clear throated way that that decision was correctly decided. So this goes beyond simply election denialism. It goes to the very crux and fabric of the rule of law and our system of an equal society.

[Nicole]

Melissa, a lot of people have solace that will somehow get through the next two and a half years because the judiciary is holding strong. And that's largely true. But let me show you some more of these nominees under questioning from Adam Schiff.

[Angelo Carusone]

In 2008, Barack Obama ran against John McCain, who won that election. I believe President Obama was sworn into oath, sworn into office. So I'm certain he won.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Senator.

[Angelo Carusone]

And John McCain lost that election. Yes, Senator. Four years later, Barack Obama ran against Mitt Romney, who won that election. President Obama was sworn into office, so I'm certain he was elected as a matter of law.

[Nicole]

Senator.

[Angelo Carusone]

And did Romney lose the election? That's the natural, logical converse of that.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Angelo Carusone]

In 2016, Donald Trump ran against Hillary Clinton, who won that election. He was sworn into office. So as a matter of law, he was elected to that office.

[Melissa Murray]

Senator.

[Angelo Carusone]

So Donald Trump won that election. That would be the natural assumption, yes. Senator, is it really an assumption you have to make? Did Donald Trump defeat Hillary Clinton in the Electoral College? He did.

[Nicole]

Hellman. I read Dr. Seuss to Izzy. This is like nonsensical, this is parsing, this is barely telling the truth in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And this is what most rational people are pinning their hopes for the survival of democracy on, which is the independence, the intelligence and the courage of this branch of government, the judiciary.

[Angelo Carusone]

Well, I mean, look, you and I have discussed on many occasions, Nicole, the ridiculousness, the self abasement, that absolutely kind of humiliating, pathetic displays of people who will not say the straightforward thing about the 2020 election that all of us could say. Donald Trump won the 2024 election. Joe Biden won the 2020 election. Donald Trump won the 2016 election. I have known some lawyers in my time who have sometimes gotten into the weeds in terms of how they speak and have a difficulty that last example at least the guy ended up in the right place about 2016 because you know, Donald Trump did lose the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, but he did win the Electoral College and therefore he won the presidency. The guy was parsing a little bit too much for losing, a little bit too complicated language for my taste. But at least in an election where you have a situation where the popular vote and the electoral vote are different, you can imagine why a lawyer in certain circumstances, even if they weren't Trump toadies, might want to try to draw a distinction between those two things. It's something, a distinction that's been drawn by many political analysts and many Democrats and Republicans alike in different circumstances. But I do think that what's come about here is a culture that Donald Trump has created for everybody who's coming into the judiciary now whereby everyone is terrified to speak plain English. And to your original point, a culture where people in the judiciary are terrified to speak plain English even though you, as you also said the judiciary has held up, has been the best bulwark, the only bulwark we've had, maybe not a perfect bulwark, the only bulwark we've had in Trump 2.0 that's held in boxing together compared to the Congress or the White House. It still is worrying that for many years to come there are going to be a bunch of people on the federal judiciary who are so terrified that they at what might happen to them that they can't just come out and speak the plain truth when asked.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And to start in such a defensive, fearful crouch doesn't inspire much confidence about whether they will follow the facts and be faithful to the rule of law. But hope springs eternal. Everyone sticks around after after the break, House Speaker Mike Johnson has the power to make the subject of alleged domestic abuser Max Miller go away, but he chooses not to. We'll bring you that update next. Developing today, there is some increasing pressure from some Republicans and the Trump White House to push Congressman Max Miller, who's been accused really serious stuff, physical abuse of his ex wife and 2 year old daughter, to drop his bid for reelection. New York Times is reporting this, that when Trump called Miller, his former loyal aide, to warn him the domestic abuse allegations he was facing would make it tough for him to win reelection, Republican officials at the White House and in Ohio hoped it would be enough to get the embattled congressman to drop out. But Trump stopped short of asking Miller to step aside and the congressman made it clear he had no intention of doing so. According to two people familiar with the Monday call who spoke anonymously, which was reported earlier by Axios, Miller has denied the allegations leveled against him and has sued his ex wife for defamation. Miller has vowed to stay in the race and yesterday he claimed to have the support of House Speaker Mike Johnson. When asked about Congressman Miller, Speaker Johnson did little to dispel that notion. Watch. Will you tell him to drop out?

[John Halman]

No, I will tell Max what I tell everyone. These are serious allegations. I'm the father of two daughters who work on Capitol Hill. I mean, the allegations are serious. I think Max is taking them seriously. I think our colleagues are. But again, we have to allow this process to play out.

[Nicole]

Taking them seriously is, according to his ex father in law, holding hostage a stuffy. Okay, Mr. Speaker, as of this hour, still none of Miller's House GOP colleagues have called for him to resign. We're back with Melissa and John. Melissa, about six Republican senators have called on him to resign. This is a twisted public story. His ex father in law is Senator, Republican senator from Ohio, Moreno, who has broken his silence in the last 72 hours and described his daughter as living in fear and his own fears for the safety of his two year old granddaughter. Your thoughts?

[Melissa Murray]

Well, I know you always have me on here to talk about constitutional law, but I also teach family law at nyu and one thing that this is so striking for me is that for many, many years these questions of domestic abuse were not handled by the criminal justice system because they were viewed as private family matters to be sorted out within the privacy of the family. And obviously that kind of privacy had real consequences for women and children. And so when I hear the president saying things as Ms. Now has reported, you know, I know Max, he's a good person. I'm going to let the families figure this out. It just sort of smacks of that older notion that these are not matters to be publicly resolved. These are matters for private resolution within the confines of the family. And I think that's a very dangerous message for, for the President of the United States to be trumpeting. It's a very dangerous message for members of Congress to be communicating, even if they are doing so by implication by not speaking out, by not condemning these credible allegations of abuse or even saying that like anytime you have someone credibly accused in this way, it's a real issue. And we saw this with Graham Platner. He is no longer in the race. I don't know why this is dragging on and on and on.

[Nicole]

I have to sneak in a break. I'll give Heilman the last word on this on the other side. Well, I'll be right back. We're back with Melissa and John. Are you there? I think Halman froze up on us, Melissa. It is interesting that politically there is nothing clear cut. You know, there's no mutually agreed upon bottom for the Republican Party. And they reveal that in news cycle after news cycle.

[Melissa Murray]

No, it's true. I mean, the question here is will the voters reward them for it? Right. You know, when this happened on the Democratic side, people were just very clear that, you know, one time maybe you get a pass. But like ultimately, as these allegations continue to come out, they weren't going to be able to tolerate it in a nominee and they scuttled Graham Platner's nomination. Here it seems like there's no end in sight. You have what appears to be internecine fighting between these two wings of the Republican Party in Ohio. And even that isn't enough to sort of call this question. These are really credible allegations. Domestic abuse is not a laughing matter, whether it happens on the political stage or just in private life. These are serious allegations with children at the heart of them, and they should be taken seriously.

[Nicole]

Melissa Murray and John Howell, and thank you for joining us today. When we come back, Trump's transition from a stubborn narcissist to a cocooned authoritarian. Those are the words from our friend Tom Nichols, and he joins us after the break. The next hour of Deadline White House starts in just a minute.

[Host/Announcer]

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