← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Voters head to the polls today"
00:41:41
As voters head to the polls today in six states, there are flashing red warning signs for President Donald Trump and the Republican party.
Loading summary
Transcript82 lines
- [00:00]
Simone Sanders
Still waiting in line. Again, that's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office for a limited time. Go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.
- [00:30]
Cornell Belcher
Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're
- [00:33]
Nicole Wallace
not sure where to start.
- [00:34]
Cornell Belcher
Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro.
- [00:44]
Michael Fanone
You just have to hire one.
- [00:45]
Cornell Belcher
You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app Download today.
- [00:55]
Nicole Wallace
Hi again everyone. It's five o' clock in the east and we are back with Maryland Governor West Moore. Governor, thank you for bearing with us while we worked out the technical gremlins. You're familiar with those.
- [01:05]
Cornell Belcher
No worries.
- [01:06]
Governor Wes Moore
No worries at all. Thank you for having me.
- [01:08]
Nicole Wallace
I wanted to ask you about the opportunity before Democrats as people's economic situation they report causes them a great deal of anxiety. Less than 30% of Americans approve of the job Donald Trump is doing on the economy and Donald Trump's corruption and eagerness to take taxpayer money, taxpayer dollars that people feel stretched to begin with to build ballrooms and arches now to pay out his political all. What is the opportunity right now for Democrats?
- [01:39]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, I think the opportunity is to show that, you know, that we actually care about what's happening in the homes of the people of our jurisdictions. You know, it's like, you know, we have a president who's spending his time focusing on ballrooms and bombs and bitcoin, you know, ballrooms that none of us are going to be invited into, you know, bombs to fight wars that none of us asked for us to be fighting. And these foreign wars and bitcoin that frankly, none of us can even explain what that is. The only thing we know is that the, you know, the Trump family are sitting on the boards of these companies and are making millions of dollars on it. You know, that the thing that we're focusing on, if you look at what we're doing in the state of Maryland, we've actually now provided $300 million in relief in for utility relief for families because we're watching these energy prices rise. That what we've done in our state is we're actually making sure we're streamlining housing so we can bring the prices of housing down. That Maryland became the first state in the country that now bans, you know, bans the usage of supermarkets using your data against you when you go into the supermarket. So you end up paying the person who's next to you simply because they're trying to weaponize your data against you. And we became the first state in the country that bans that. That we're trying to focus on making sure that the quality of life goes up and that the cost and that the cost of life comes down. But we have a federal administration and a White House that seem to be exclusively focusing on their own returns while hosing out everyone else.
- [03:00]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, all the things you talked about are more popular with the voters than anything the Republicans are running on. They seem to be forced to run on Trump's agenda, which is historically unpopular, which a lot of folks think explains Trump's obsession with rigging the midterms. What are you doing in Maryland on the protecting democracy, protecting the right to vote side?
- [03:24]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, no, we've really ensured that for elections in our state, that we want to ensure that every eligible voter inside of the state of Maryland is going to have the opportunity to make their voice heard. In fact, the day. The day, you know, before the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights act, which was one of the most consequential pieces of the Civil Rights act and the civil rights movement as a whole, I very proudly signed legislation, actually, which is the Maryland Voting Rights act of 2026, ensuring that no matter what the Supreme Court says, that we are going to protect the voting rights of the people of our state. This is about our democracy, and it's about the fact that our democracy should not be determined by Donald Trump. Our democracy will be determined by the people of Maryland. And so we are ensuring that our board of elections, which is an independent agency, has what they need to ensure that our elections will be fair and safe and free elections where all eligible voters are not just going to have a voice, but they are going to have a vote.
- [04:23]
Nicole Wallace
Governor, my old party likes to turn to its governors. Before Trump, at least. A lot of people talk about you. A lot of people are enthusiastic for you to run for president. When you throw out barbs like ballrooms, bombs and bitcoins, that's part of what they love about your leadership. Just tell me where your head is on throwing your hat in the ring and what concerns you have? Donald Trump seems to get thin skinned and threatened quickly and easily by people who he thinks represent a political threat.
- [04:54]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, listen, I'm very clear that the President spends a lot of his time tweeting about me and attacking me. He just did it again yesterday. But the thing that's most disturbing is how much time he's attacking my people. There is no state in the country that's been under a greater measurement of attack than the state of Maryland. We know Donald Trump and J.D. vance have now fired over 31,000 Marylanders in the past year alone. Federal workers. People who are doing things like making sure that our food is safe and making sure the planes are not colliding. And these are the people he went after.
- [05:25]
Cornell Belcher
First.
- [05:26]
Governor Wes Moore
He's gone after our health care, he's gone after food assistance for our children. And I think the people of our state know two things. One, they know I am focused on November and I'm focused on making sure that we can win reelection. And we are focused on making sure we're protecting our people because the President has learned, you know, I will work with anyone, but I will bow to no one. And here in Maryland, we're just built differently.
- [05:47]
Nicole Wallace
A lot of people in Maryland work in the area of public health. I remember that from my time in government. There's an Ebola outbreak. It's been declared a world health emergency. Do you have any wisdom or thoughts from people who used to be on the front lines protecting not just people in your state, but everyone in the country and around the world from diseases like Ebola, about how, just how dire our standing is right now on those fronts?
- [06:12]
Governor Wes Moore
Yeah. First, I want to give thanks to all these front care, frontline health care workers because at times, whether you're talking about, whether you're talking about Ebola, the Hunter bars, et cetera, when we're all being told to be cautious, they are the ones who are leaning in and making sure that they're providing the supports to people. So first, I just want to say thank you to all of them. The second is I want people to know that on the state levels, this is something that we are taking seriously. You know that we know that anytime you see these type of movements, anytime you see this type of data, that we have to be able to and be ready to move aggressively to be able to address it. And that's exactly what we're doing in Maryland. That's exactly what we're doing in the state. On the state level.
- [06:53]
Nicole Wallace
Governor Wes Moore of Maryland, you've been very generous with your time and endured some of our technical glitches. We're grateful to you. Thank you.
- [07:01]
Governor Wes Moore
I'm grateful. Thank you.
- [07:03]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you, Governor. Today, as voters head to the polls in six states, there are, as we've been discussing with the governor, flashing bright red warning signs for Republicans and for Donald Trump. Just 37% of Americans approve of the job Donald Trump is doing in a highly respected new poll, the New York Times Siena poll. It's a 4 point drop since January. Another poll, CBS and YouGov, also has Donald Trump at 37%. A whopping 63% of Americans disapprove of the job Donald Trump is doing. It's not just a low for Donald Trump, right? That would seem obvious. It's a historic low for any president, at least compared to the last two. Nate Cohn from the New York Times puts these awful numbers for Trump in this perspective, writing, quote, while recent presidencies have often been unpopular, popular and polarizing, no president's approval rating has been under 38% for more than a few days in the last 17 years. That's according to our average. If there has been a floor during this partisan era of politics, Trump's ratings today have fallen to it. And there's nothing here to suggest that Trump has hit the floor. Just 28% of Americans approve of his handling of the cost of living. In that new New York Times poll, his handling of inflation is down at 27%. In the CBS YouGov poll, 65% of Americans in that poll say Trump's policies are making the economy worse in the short term, 77%. Almost 80% of Americans say their incomes are not keeping up with inflation. As Americans are feeling the pain of Donald Trump's failures on the economy, something he ran on, they also see clearly and believe that he is using the presidency to benefit himself personally. A YouGov poll finds that almost 60% of Americans believe Trump is using his office for personal gain. It's not just bad political news, devastating political news for someone as vain as Donald Trump. It also looks bleak politically for his Republican enablers. The New York Times Siena poll shows that Democrats hold a whopping 11 point lead, 50% to 39%. When voters are asked which party they will support in congressional races, with signs that even his base has had enough of him, 37% of Republicans tell the New York Times that they want their party to go in a different direction than Trump. So just how frustrated Trump's base is remains to be seen. He's had some political wins in Indiana. We'll be focused in on that question tonight as Trump turns into a referendum issue in his brand of MAGA Republicanism. He's seeking to oust two Republican incumbents, Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massie and Texas Senator John Cornyn, in favor of die hard loyalists Ed Gowering in Kentucky and scandal. Written Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton. Joining our coverage, Democratic pollster and political analyst Cornell Belcher. Back with us, political analyst former Senator Claire McCaskill and former San Antonio mayor and housing secretary under President Obama. Political analyst Julian Castro is here. Let me ask you, Julian, first, what's happening in Texas?
- [10:14]
Cornell Belcher
Well, today's announcement by Donald Trump that he's endorsing the Attorney general Ken Paxton in a runoff that'll happen a week from today against Senator John Cornyn. I mean, that really gives a leg up to Ken Paxton. It has to be welcomed news by James Talarico. Polling has shown that Talarico is very competitive, the Democrat very competitive against both of them. But a couple does a couple of points better against Ken Paxton. And you can understand why. This was a guy that a federal indictment hung over his head for years, got impeached, a whole bunch of baggage that makes him weak, especially in this cycle. And so the latest polling has Talarico either tied or just ahead of Ken Paxton. And it has been that way ever since Talarico won the primary in March. So this is big news. And it means that it's going to be a very competitive election in November here in Texas, the first time in a very long time.
- [11:15]
Nicole Wallace
And you hear that, you hear that privately and publicly. I want to show all of you what the thing about Trump 2.0 is. It's all out loud, it's all on camera. Here he is talking about what his priorities are as president.
- [11:47]
Cornell Belcher
What do you think motivates him to do that?
- [11:49]
Nicole Wallace
Let me read this to you, Cornell. Trump says, quote, I'm doing a job on the reflecting lake. It's been renamed a lake. I'm not sure if that's like Gulf of America renaming or just a misstatement. I'm doing a job on the reflecting lake for a fraction of what they paid. Now. I've upgraded it very, I got so into it. I've upgraded it like you wouldn't believe. I'm doing all the walkways outside. You know, I'm doing it, I'm doing it properly. But it is a much bigger job. But you see, it's happening now. It's going to be beautiful. It's going to be waterproof. It's a reflecting pool. I hope so. It's going to be reflecting again. I took over a dirty, filthy thing that wasn't open and it was disgusting. And friends of mine would come to the Lincoln or the Washington and they would say, sir, it's disgusting. I said, what's disgusting? The reflecting lake. The reflecting lake. It's very reflective. I put a thing out yesterday showing the reflection. We did a little test. We wanted to see. It's like a mirror. It's beautiful. That's a quote. I can't believe that he actually said that. That is the man with his hands on the nuclear code. That is also the man that 70% of Americans describe themselves as feeling either, quote, frustrated or angry about when it comes to his approach to the economy. This is a diligence that he never showed around Covid, that he hasn't communicated publicly when it comes to the war in Iran. But on the reflecting pool, it is a near obsession.
- [13:31]
Claire McCaskill
Well, you know, he may very well be doing a great job on the reflecting pool, but the problem is they
- [13:37]
Michael Fanone
hire him
- [13:40]
Claire McCaskill
the reflecting pool, which is why his poll numbers are so poorly. And let me, and let's dig into that a little bit more, Nicole, and why his approval numbers, disapproval numbers are important or for any president that's important. If you go to the New York Times poll and you look at the approval disapproval of the president, then looking how voters are breaking 1, that 11 point gap, 11 point margin by Democrats is really important. I want to say something about that first, me second. But first. So if you look at, if you look at what's happening underneath there, Nicole, you have 70 plus percent of voters who disapprove of Donald Trump supporting the Democrat candidate in the generic Democrat candidate. That's why the approval is important. Approval disapproval is important. That's why you don't want your president or leader of your party to have his or her unfortunately always his in this country, his approval ratings that low because you're getting 70% of those who disapprove are breaking for the opposition party, which puts them in a particularly problematic place. The 11 point gap, Nicole, is really important in polling because look back in 2005, 2006 when I was DNC's pollster for Chairman Dean, we gradually began to see 5 point, 4 point, 6 point, 8 point and then a 10 point gap. And we sort of saw this wave election coming. And to get a double digit is important for Democrats because structurally, historically, structurally, you needed at least a 10 or 11 point generic to see a wave election for Democrats structurally. Although, Nicole, I don't even know if that's true anymore because through their gerrymandering, through their hubris sort of erasing of Democratic districts and particularly African American and Hispanic districts, I would argue, Nicole, that they have broken down their wall, their barrier for breaking up a wave election by making Republicans strong Republican districts less strongly Republican. So the level point gap now, I actually don't know what, what's possibly going to happen. I think Democrats could very well pick up more seats than they, than they have historically with a 10 or 11 point gap because they've eroded away their breakwater, their breakwater strong Republican districts.
- [16:03]
Nicole Wallace
Will you explain that, Cornell? I've done this a billion times. But just explain how their gerrymander actually makes all the seats more competitive because it spread out a lot of people who might have voted for Democrats who were maybe in one district across districts.
- [16:21]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah. So typically, look, one of the hardest things to do is take out an incumbent. And we've got incumbents that have. And we talked about before, right. Typically the Houses, the House of Representatives is fought out between maybe 25, maybe 30 seats at most. Most of them are safe. And then there are the seats that are super safe. So you take a plus 15 Republican district and you make that district by diluting it and moving in more Democrats and more minority voters. You take that plus 15 district which has been wave proof. Right. It's hard to get a wave more than plus 15. You take that plus 15 seat and you make that plus 8 or you make that plus 7, and then you have a wave election, which we've seen from the off year elections and the special elections where Democrats have outperformed sometimes 19, 20 points, what they've historically been doing. And so that all of a sudden you've got a whole lot of Republican seats that are now plus 5 or plus 6 that are reachable by a wave election, which they would not have been reachable by a wave election if they hadn't been so huge.
- [17:32]
Nicole Wallace
Right. It can be a smaller wave, as someone said to me, because you've now got smaller margins for error. There's so much more in the polls. I want to keep digging through them with all of you. I have to sneak in a break. No one's going anywhere. Also had Donald Trump's retribution. Tour heads to Kentucky. As we said, where Trump is going, he's obsessed with trying to defeat the Republican congressman who led the way on the Epstein files, the Transparency act to release all the Epstein files. Polls will be closed at the top of the hour. And we'll have the latest on that race ahead as well. Also ahead, back to Our top story, DOJ is $1.8 billion fund that critics say could pay off Donald Trump's criminal allies, including people who assaulted police officers on January6. Former Metropolitan Police Officer Michael Flannon will be here. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [18:28]
Claire McCaskill
Simone Sanders Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House. And I reported on it.
- [18:36]
Simone Sanders
And now we're friends and colleagues.
- [18:38]
Claire McCaskill
And on our podcast, Clock it, we
- [18:40]
Simone Sanders
are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
- [18:44]
Claire McCaskill
Clock it is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news. So you can start to clock it, too.
- [18:50]
Cornell Belcher
Clock it with Simone and Eugene.
- [18:52]
Governor Wes Moore
All episodes available now.
- [19:00]
Nicole Wallace
We're back with Cornell, Claire and Secretary Castro. Claire, let me ask you about the polls. Let's dig in a little bit to how Trump is doing in the CBS News poll among non college educated white voters. In February of 2025, he had a 68% approval rating there. That's historically been one of the strongest parts of his political coalition. Right now he has a 54% disapproval and just a 46% approval, 25 point, 22 point drop. That feels again like a very politically perilous place, not just for Trump, but to put the Republican Party ahead of the midterms.
- [19:44]
Simone Sanders
Yeah, that group of Americans are the ones that are feeling this economic distress most acutely. And you can only pass off what's going on for so long until you have to confront it individually and with reality based facts. And these folks can't afford to fill their gas tanks. Many of them are in rural America and they have to drive farther than those of us who live in cities. And they are hurting. But the part of the poll that was most interesting to me, and this partly is because of my background, I look at independence at the cross tabs of independence carefully. And the leaners and Cornell would be an expert on this. But when you're an independent, pollsters try to find out if you lean Republican or lean Democrat because many times people don't want to say they're one of the parties because they don't like the parties. So they say they're independent, but they lean. Those leaners have really moved away from Donald Trump. The leaners that are leaning towards the Republican Party, 55% of the independents who lean Republican say we gotta move on from Donald Trump. That is a huge number. And that is really what can make the difference for not just the midterms, but for two years from now is speaking to those independents who don't think either party really has this figured out, who are very frustrated at how bad Washington is and everybody who's in it. But talking to them and making sure that you're listening to them, that's gonna be the key to the kingdom here as we move forward in this really polarized environment. Because now you're really seeing, even among the Republicans, usually There was what, 10, 15%. Cornell can correct me here that we're not crazy about Trump. Well, that's doubled. Now. You've got a third of the Republicans admitting they aren't really thrilled with Donald Trump. And so that's really the kind of environment where gerrymandering is very, very dangerous, because in more Republican districts, they have to be less Republican, and that means a much better chance for a Democrat to win it.
- [21:54]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I mean, Mr. Secretary Trump has been given a handful of opportunities by very MAGA friendly hosts to walk back his comments that he doesn't care at all about the impact of the war in Iran on their personal financial standing. New York Times wrote an article about it. He's been asked about it by Friendly House. And he keeps. He called. It was like the call. He called it a perfect statement. He said, quote, it's a perfect statement. I'd make it again. So Donald Trump's stated position, even after all this polling fallout, is that he does not care about people's personal financial crises or conditions as he makes foreign policy and other policy decisions.
- [22:36]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah.
- [22:36]
Cornell Belcher
I mean, and we know this is the guy that he's always been, and that's what so many of us have suspected is in his heart. Fundamentally, he doesn't care. But I think it's true, Nicole, that in times past, he did show a willingness to sort of act a little bit more or speak a little bit more like he did care. And for these Republican candidates, whether they're incumbents or. Or their challengers, it really drives home the point that this is a guy that doesn't care about you or your political future or the Republican Party even. Really, what he cares about is himself, can never admit that he's wrong, doesn't want to be seen as lowering himself by correcting himself oftentimes. And so even on something as crucial as acknowledging the pain that so many folks are feeling at the gas pump, at the grocery store, in their rent, he won't do it. Even though we're going through, through, you know, an important election season. And that in and of itself is so harmful, not only to their brand, but I think to their, to the Republican ability to, to resonate and to connect in a meaningful way with voters. That's the kind of thing that's going to hurt them in November if he keeps it up.
- [23:48]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, Mr. Secretary, it's an interesting point because we've all seen the results come in from Indiana, right, where Trump successfully ousted Republicans who hadn't gone along with his rigging of the maps there. But you're making a point about the general election, where even if he fortifies and purifies these Republican primaries, all of that may accrue to the benefit of the Democratic Party. With that in mind, how are you. How are you watching or what are you curious about in the Massey race in Kentucky?
- [24:20]
Cornell Belcher
Well, I mean, here you have a fascinating example, right, Because Republican office holders have chosen one of two paths on Trump. You have people like Bill Cassidy who just lost his primary, but he did that even after he had kissed up to Trump, tried to convince everybody in many ways, even though he'd voted against Trump on some things, that he was with Trump. Same thing with John Cornyn. John Cornyn put out a tweet saying that I voted with the President 99.3% of the time and I'm on his team. Well, he just lost out on the endorsement to Ken Paxton, and he may well lose next Tuesday. The second camp, and there are very few in this camp are like Massie. They, you know, they double down on the opposition and they may mouth that, yes, they support the president, but really in their actions, they're consistently independent and we haven't seen that tested nearly as much. And so this is fascinating to see if that MAGA voter base at a time when they're turning away from Trump like that polling that you had up on the screen a moment ago indicated kind of more and more of them are done with him and they want to change in direction. Is that enough in a district like Massey's? And if they believe his sincerity and that he's standing on principle, is that enough for him to eke it out? It's going to be close.
- [25:34]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, Cornell, what are you watching for in that Massey race?
- [25:37]
Claire McCaskill
Well, I got to say I'm watching for the same, the same things. But I will also say this. Look, I think it's, I think it's foolish, right, for the, for the Republican Party overall, especially if you're Speaker Johnson, you got to hate what's happening there. Why do you hate what's happening there? Because you're, because if, because if the incumbent loses, what you're creating is an open seat. Again. Over 85% of of house incumbents win re election. It's really hard to take out a sitting incumbent. An open seat is, is an easier thing. And you're talking about someone who's been winning that seat fairly safely. And you're going to create another open seat opportunity for Democrats to put even more House seats in play this time if Donald Trump is successful at taking out that incumbent and that simply benefits Democrats more than it benefits Speaker Johnson and Republicans in the House.
- [26:31]
Nicole Wallace
Claire, I think it's interesting to watch. I mean I think Cassidy made a terrible deal with the devil. You can't be sort of in on Trump. You are either all maga, all the time as Lindsey Graham and all of the Republicans in Washington, all your former friends used to whisper to you and send me encrypted messages to keep it up, but then go before the cameras and defend, grab him in the, you know what good people. I mean they've defended the indefensible. And Massie is this new example, I think that he'll test sort of for the country and for his district and for the Republican Party. How salient the betrayal is. The three betrayals have been Massey's issues. The betrayal on the wars, the betrayal on the Epstein files and the betrayal on the economy. Do Republicans have enough self respect to vote out someone that makes or to reject someone? I guess they don't have a chance to vote anyone out because Massie's the incumbent. But are those betrayals politically powerful enough yet with Republican voters?
- [27:30]
Simone Sanders
I don't think so. I mean, I hope I'm wrong. But Indiana was disappointing. Indiana was disappointing. Louisiana, Cassidy not even making the runoff. And that's really what's going on in the Trump world is he sees that and he says, see, look how great I am. But it's a very small, it's a calcified group of people in these primaries. Many leaners don't even vote in primaries. A lot of people who don't like the system and don't like politics and want to throw everybody out, they don't participate in primaries. The people who participate in primaries are the hardcore folks who feel very, very strongly. And there's more Democrats that feel that way right now because Donald Trump, and that's why you're seeing these special elections that's over perform. But I don't hold out hope that Massie, I mean, I think the fact he's kept it close is remarkable. And it may be close tonight, but it will not surprise me if Donald Trump notches another win. And then he can go out tomorrow. He did a tour of the press of the ballroom this morning. Well, tomorrow we could take him out and talk about the arch and then on the next day he can go and look at his swimming pool. And then who knows, maybe we can go for the Kennedy center or the next day and he can go a whole week and not talk about things that matter to America.
- [28:51]
Nicole Wallace
It's incredible. Incredible on that point. Polls in Kentucky close at 6pm Eastern. That's in about 28 minutes. Ali Belshi is standing by the big bar. Will have results all night as they come in. Castro, thank you for spending time with us today. Cornell and Claire, stick around a little bit longer. When we come back, the Justice Department's nearly $1.8 billion fund that Todd Blanche today called a slush fund. It could put hard earned taxpayer dollars into the pockets of violent January 6th insurrectionists. We'll get reaction from Officer Michael Fanone after a short break.
- [29:27]
Claire McCaskill
Simone Sanders Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House. And I reported on it.
- [29:36]
Simone Sanders
And now we're friends and colleagues.
- [29:38]
Claire McCaskill
And on our podcast, Clock it, we
- [29:40]
Simone Sanders
are positioning ourselves at the intersection of
- [29:42]
Claire McCaskill
culture and Clock it is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news. So you can start to clock it, too.
- [29:50]
Cornell Belcher
Clock it with Simone and Eugene.
- [29:52]
Governor Wes Moore
All episodes available now.
- [30:00]
Nicole Wallace
Donald Trump's $1.776 billion slush fund could hand out taxpayer dollars to the January 6th insurrectionists who stormed the US Capitol and assaulted and beat and tased police officers. Cemented his loyalty, likely to his most fervent and violent supporters. One of the officers injured on January 6th. Our next guest writes this about the fund. Quote, what those rioters did was a betrayal of this country, an American betrayal committed by people waving American flags as they pummeled American cops. Then Donald Trump pardoned them, every single one. That was a deeper betrayal, a decision made in broad daylight by the president of the United States. And now this, a nearly $2 billion slush fund wrapped in an American symbol to be placed like a wreath at Arlington Cemetery. To the violent insurrectionists who tried to overthrow democracy over a lie. In my book, this is the greatest betrayal of them all. This one has the seal of the Department of Justice on the letterhead. The government we ran toward that day is now telling us in writing that the people who tried to kill us are the victims and we were the problem. We're joined now by Officer Michael Fanone. He's a spokesperson for Home of the Brave. Cornell and Claire are still here. Thank you for being here. I've read and seen your comments, but I wonder if you could just actually let me do this. Let me show you how fast Josh Hawley ran from the insurrectionists as you ran toward them to protect men like Josh Hawley. There he is. He was running so quickly and kind of looked, I guess, more athletic than some of the other members. I think there's some video where he seems to. There he is. Passes some others. And my point in showing this isn't that he shouldn't have been running. I'm glad he did. I'm glad he was safe. But he was running from people that the government is now giving $1.7 billion to. So in the moment, he didn't think they were worthy. He didn't think they were safe enough to be around. He set off running like a sprinter.
- [32:16]
Michael Fanone
Yeah, I've lost. I don't know, I think adjectives have lost meaning in describing the actions of this administration. I guess there's a combination of two that come to mind, and it's fucking disgraceful that taxpayer money would be used to compensate violent insurrectionists. And let's make no mistake about what this fund is going to be used for. This fund is going to be used to pay violent criminals for committing violent crimes on behalf of Donald Trump on January 6, 2021, and that's it. You know, if January 20 was the nail in the coffin for accountability on January 6, in Trump's pardoning of the 1500 plus insurrectionists that participated in the events of that day, this was like salt on the wound,
- [33:18]
Cornell Belcher
you know, and
- [33:18]
Michael Fanone
it's, you know, the 1776 number. It's so blatantly obvious. It's another attempt at this administration to rebrand the violent criminals who attacked police officers on January 6th as patriots, as. As if they're somehow, you know, in the same vein of those that cross the Delaware river with George Washington to free us from tyranny. It's unbelievable. It should outrage every American, and yet it doesn't.
- [33:57]
Nicole Wallace
Just so our viewers know, the actual amount of the fund is 1.776 billion. Subtlety has never been their jam. Let me ask you to just try to put into words what Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen pressed Todd Blanche about today, which was that a convicted child molester told his child victims shh don't tell anyone about the crimes I'm carrying out against you molestation, because I'm going to come into restitution. This is NPR's reporting. Todd Blanche simply reacted by saying basically he couldn't have known yet. We hadn't announced it yet. And like that was, that was essentially what the testimony amounted to. It didn't exist yet. It hadn't been announced yet. And that's true, I guess a press release hadn't gone out. But this January 6th insurrectionist who would go on to commit the crime and be convicted of child molestation, told one of his child victims that he would come into restitution that Donald Trump had promised the insurrectionists. How much of the premeditation of all this is signaling to anyone in the future who might carry out political violence, which I think most normal people believe is a scourge, that not only will they be pardoned, but they might be paid?
- [35:25]
Michael Fanone
I mean, I think that it's not speculation to assume that. First of all, I think that that is a motivating factor as to why this administration is engaging in this payout. And going back to what it is, it's Donald Trump and Trump's administration and his personal attorney, Todd Blanche, who cosplays as the acting attorney general setting this up, knowing full well that not only did they absolve these individuals who committed criminal acts on this administration's behalf of criminal culpability, but that they're now going to pay them. And I can tell you right now, my DMs and my social media have been flooded with individuals who would like to kill me so that they themselves can get a payout from this administration because they think that that's what would most likely happen.
- [36:26]
Nicole Wallace
No one's going anywhere. I'm going to ask you to stick around, Michael. I want to bring Cornell and Claire into this conversation on the other side. We're back with Michael Cornell and Claire. Michael, just before the break, you said that your DMs are full of people who want to, you said, kill you to get a payout. What do you in this moment do with those threats?
- [36:50]
Claire McCaskill
Nothing.
- [36:53]
Nicole Wallace
Why not?
- [36:56]
Michael Fanone
I mean, first of all, I don't trust law enforcement. I don't trust the FBI. I don't trust local law enforcement. My experience was with them over the past five years have been I'll just class characterize them as unpleasant. But especially since, you know, Donald Trump was re elected and assumed office,
- [37:23]
Claire McCaskill
I
- [37:23]
Michael Fanone
won't speak with with anyone in the federal government. Speaking of which, I take this opportunity that all the U.S. attorneys that have been texting me on signal today saying how sorry they are. I don't want your sympathy. I'd rather you just quit your job. I'm not your friend. I don't want to hear from you. I want you to quit your job and stop supporting this administration.
- [37:51]
Nicole Wallace
What do you think the private messages that don't match the public cowardice signal?
- [37:59]
Michael Fanone
I've come to understand that to be the real character of America is selfishness, self centeredness and cowardice. That's not to say that every American exhibits those characteristics often or even on a daily basis. But that's what I've come to understand America to represent, especially in the post World War II era, but certainly today. And that's how we have a Donald Trump as president. Because Americans are selfish, they're self centered and they're cowards. I mean look at how many cowards we have representing us on both sides of the political aisle that either cowtail to a wannabe dictator or who stick their heads in the sand and tell us to focus on kitchen table issues as if our democracy is not being destroyed right before our very eyes.
- [38:59]
Nicole Wallace
To your point, Adam Kinzinger, who lost his job in part for his work on the January 6 select committee, posted this quote. There's no way the Republicans would be anything less than outraged if Obama had taken almost $2 billion of tax taxpayer dollars and given it to people he pardoned for trying to steal an election. Every Republican in Congress who doesn't speak up and prevent this is complicit, I guess. Cornell, I would put to you both of Michael's observations. One, this false choice between the price of eggs and the burning down of our democracy. Do you think Democrats are cured of that after watching Trump's second term? And two, how do you prosecute a political case about Republicans complicity in taking $1.8 billion of taxpayer dollars and giving it to violent insurrectionists?
- [39:53]
Claire McCaskill
It's tough to follow Michael after that. I gotta tell you, I'm grateful for your service brother and keep pushing and keep fighting. And I don't disagree with your critique of America. Lord knows I've been on the show a lot with the same critique of America and trying to push it towards better, making it better and trying to put pressure on our political leaders
- [40:20]
Cornell Belcher
so
- [40:20]
Claire McCaskill
that they will be better and they will stand up and try to hold those political leaders account. And in the bottom of my heart I still have hope that that if called to their better angels, Americans will do the right thing and that the right thing isn't just about the price of eggs, but about fundamentally, Nicole, who we are, and that most Americans see what's happening in Washington with Donald Trump and the federal government and the fleecing of our country and the undermining of our values, and they know it's not right and they know it's not them. The question is, what are they going to do about it? And we got to keep pushing that. And Michael's right. I mean, too much of our politics. And Nicole, we've talked about it. Too much of our politics is built on pocketbook transaction, as if, though that's the most important thing in people's lives as opposed to their values and their morals. And I'd simply say we got to keep fighting the fight, got to try and keep pushing it forward.
- [41:26]
Nicole Wallace
Got to start with the truth, though. And Michael Fanon, I can't thank you enough for your candor, your fearlessness, and for telling the truth here with us. I'm really grateful to you. Michael Fanon, Claire McCaskill and Cornell Belcher, thank you for today. One more break. We'll be right back. Our good friend, the legendary Ken Burns, says that history does not repeat itself, but human nature never changes. If you're looking around at these times we've been covering, if you find yourself in disbelief or feeling uncertain, take a listen to this week's episode of the Best People podcast. He's my guest, and he has a lot of wisdom to share about history and about us humans. Take a listen to what he told me about what gives him confidence in the American experiment that he spent his life documenting.
- [42:18]
Simone Sanders
What in the world would someone from Brooklyn or Iowa be doing landing in a LST on June 6, 1944? They are not getting paid for it. There's no territory, no empire is being expanded. What would you do that? And everyone in this audience knows the answer to that. They have underlying this, the sense that what was lost there was so precious that we would be willing to launch the greatest seaboard invasion for one idea, and that is liberty. I mean, it sounds pretty corny, but this is brand new in our revolution, and it's still brand new. And I think we even feel part of this pain is that we don't like liberties taken away from them or me or you or whatever it might be.
- [43:10]
Nicole Wallace
You know, the entire conversation. It was a live recording took place last week in New York City, and it's available now to anyone. Everyone scan the QR code on your screen or download it wherever you get your podcast. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.
- [43:32]
Michael Fanone
Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't. When all is said and done, what is the end game? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, why Is this Happening? I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.
- [43:47]
Nicole Wallace
We're right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.
- [43:52]
Michael Fanone
But why is this happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from Ms. Now start listening today wherever you get your podcasts.