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“We have no kings” - Deadline: White House | Wave AI Podcast Notes

“We have no kings”

Mon Oct 20 2025

Nicolle Wallace discusses the weekend’s “No Kings” protests that saw millions gather nationwide as well as the latest bombshell reporting on the tactics immigration officers are using against U.S. citizens.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House – “We have no kings”

Host: Nicolle Wallace | Date: October 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the unprecedented, nationwide “No Kings” protests, a massive, bipartisan display of opposition to Donald Trump's increasingly authoritarian administration. Nicolle Wallace and her panel of key analysts—John Heilemann, Eddie Glaude, and protest organizer Hunter Dunn—break down the scale, meaning, and implications of the weekend’s protests, discuss the administration’s extreme responses, and reflect on the broader existential questions for American democracy. Later, the conversation turns toward reporting on mass deportations (including errant citizen detainments), the use of federal force in American cities, and the enduring challenge of building a sustainable resistance movement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historic “No Kings” Protests: A Nation Mobilized

[01:10–07:58]

Unprecedented Scale & Diversity
- Over 7 million protesters in 2,700+ events worldwide—including small towns, red states, and non-coastal cities.
- “We had libertarians and Democratic socialists not just at the same protest, but working together to make it happen. That is a massive shift from where we have been as a country over the past couple decades.” – Hunter Dunn [06:00]
- Protests were peaceful; NYPD reported over 100,000 in NYC and zero arrests.
Personal Stake and Patriotism
- U.S. veterans, workers, families, and people of all backgrounds rallied together:
  - “There’s no way I’m bending the only knee I have left for a king here in America.” – U.S. Army veteran at Oklahoma City [03:32]
Trump’s Troubling Response
- Trump posted an AI-generated image of himself dumping feces on America, described as “a new low.”
  - “The only thing that Trump said or did this entire time that wasn’t a lie was him shitting on everyday Americans.” – Hunter Dunn [08:44]

2. Protest as Both Symbol and Strategy

[09:23–14:36]

Shifting Political Landscape
- The movement’s strength is its cross-partisan, organic roots. Hunter Dunn notes that even in places known for right-wing activism, turnout was significant and peaceful.
- John Heilemann recounts seeing protests in conservative and apolitical suburbs:
  - “These are places where that kind of activism is not the norm by any means... And yet people were out in force.” [12:47]
Protest as Education and Organization
- Eddie Glaude frames the protests as “dramatic forms of education, which set the stage for the next stage of engagement.” [14:42]
- Organizers are already planning next steps—a mass organizing call is scheduled for the following day.

3. The Ongoing Role of Civic Action

[15:34–17:51]

Citizens, Not Politicians, as the Decisive Force
- The search for a “perfect opposition candidate” is critiqued:
  - “It is clear now that we are the only people. If we could be saved, it’s up to every one of us.” – John Heilemann [16:18]
- Glaude adds: “Democracy is not reducible to election cycles. In fact, voting is the last thing you do in a democracy. Civic life is so much more robust than every two, four years.” [16:29]
Sustained, Local Organizing = Real Power
- Hunter Dunn emphasizes that this work happens daily:
  - “This isn’t a sprint, it’s a marathon... Getting people on the ground gets people connected with those community networks, which gives them the ability to resist against Trump’s regime every single day.” [17:58]

4. Movement vs. Electoral Politics: Both/And, Not Either/Or

[23:04–27:12]

Elections as a Means, Not the End
- John Heilemann and Nicolle Wallace dissect how large social movements both drive and outlast legislative wins.
  - “Elections are just punctuation marks along the way…but also, I think everyone will agree, winning in the midterms is a pretty important thing for anybody who’s on Team Democracy.” – John Heilemann [26:30]
- Both panelists urge the movement not to fixate on a “savior” figure, but to channel public energy into policy and institutional change.

5. Building and Sustaining Resistance

[28:41–33:23]

Existential Stakes & Opportunity for Persuasion
- Eddie Glaude raises the deep divide between competing visions of America—one inclusive, one exclusionary:
  - “We are seeing the divided soul of the nation… It cuts to the heart of the very nation, the very nature of how the country understands itself.” [29:40]
- Hunter Dunn argues for a return to persuasion politics:
  - “If I have one criticism of the Democratic Party… they have forgotten the ability to persuade people. You can sit down with people who believe you are a traitor… and you can break bread. You can convince them, you can pull them out of it. I’ve done it personally.” [31:10]
- Grassroots organizing and pressure campaigns (including corporate boycotts) are critical, especially as other institutional checks weaken.

6. Escalating Administrative Lawlessness: Immigration & Use of Force

[35:04–41:59]

DOJ and ICE in Open Defiance of Law
- DOJ whistleblowers describe lawless conduct: “Felt like a bomb had gone off. Here is the number three official… we may just have to consider disregarding federal court orders.” – DOJ whistleblower (Erez Rouvainy) [35:04]
- ProPublica’s Nicole Foy documents U.S. citizens unlawfully detained and ICE oversight gutted.
  - “Americans have been dragged, tackled, beaten, tased, and shot by immigration agents… This is not an accident. It is the inevitable result of the way that Donald Trump’s Department of Homeland Security has empowered ICE agents…” – John Heilemann [35:35]
  - “There is a crisis really of the Justice Department’s credibility before the courts because they are so motivated by accomplishing political objectives.” – Liz Oyer [40:49]

7. Federal Force Against Protest: The Battle Over Portland

[44:13–47:07]

Ninth Circuit Authorizes National Guard Deployment
- Majority (Trump-appointed) court allows Trump’s deployment in Oregon, over a strong dissent warning against “eroding core constitutional principles.”
- “It erodes core constitutional principles, including sovereign states' control over their state’s militias and the people’s First Amendment rights to assemble and to object to the government’s policies and actions. I strenuously dissent.” – Dissenting judge [44:45]
Imperial Presidency Fears
- “There are no limits to what this man can do, and there are no limits to what he thinks he can do… He wants us to see him exercising that power on a daily basis so that we feel helpless in the face of it.” – Eddie Glaude [46:24]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On American Identity:
“In this country we have no kings, period.”
– Eddie Glaude [05:17]
On Protest as a Response to Oppression:
“This is the most American thing you can do: protest and speak for what you believe in.”
– Protester (via John Heilemann) [04:55]
On Sustained Resistance:
“The strength of this movement, the ultimate effect… is only going to be achieved through repetition.”
– John Heilemann [14:00]
On Persuasion and Breaking Divides:
“You can sit down with people who believe you are a traitor... You can convince them, you can pull them out of it. I’ve done it personally.”
– Hunter Dunn [31:10]
On Trump’s Response:
“The only thing that Trump said or did this entire time that wasn’t a lie was him shitting on everyday Americans.”
– Hunter Dunn [08:44]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Opening Contrasts: Bush, Obama, and the Authoritarian Turn | [01:10–02:04]
Personal Voices from No Kings Protests | [03:28–05:17]
Scope & Impact: Protest Organizers Recap | [06:15–07:58]
City-by-City, Suburban Mobilization & Movement Growth | [09:23–14:36]
Reflection on Protest’s Role in Democracy | [15:34–17:51]
Grassroots Organizing, Boycotts, & Persuasion | [31:10–33:23]
Whistleblowers and ICE Lawlessness | [35:04–41:59]
National Guard in Portland & Judicial Dissent | [44:13–47:07]

Conclusion

This episode paints a portrait of a society at a crossroads: where grassroots action and community organizing stand as renewed bulwarks against encroaching authoritarianism, and where the question of what it means to be American is being fiercely debated in the streets, courts, communities, and airwaves. The hosts underscore that this is bigger than one person or one protest—it’s a fight for the soul and future of the republic, to be waged not only at the ballot box but every day, in every community.

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Transcript

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John Heilman (1:10)

Hi there everyone. Happy Monday. It's 4 o' clock in New York. We begin with a study. In contrast, here are Presidents George W. Bush and President Barack Obama when confronted by public opposition to their policies.

Hunter Dunn (1:24)

Democracy is a beautiful thing and that.

Eddie Glaude (1:27)

People are allowed to express their opinion.

Nicole Wallace (1:29)

I welcome people's right to say what they believe. I've listened to you.

Hunter Dunn (1:34)

I heard you.

Nicole Wallace (1:35)

I heard you. I heard you.

Nicole Wallace (10:18)

Yeah, Nicole. And we'll put Shohei Otan to the side for the moment, although only for the moment, because my mind is still blown by what I witnessed that night. I'm not sure I'll ever recover, I decided when we talked on Friday. I rattled off a bunch of places where there were no Kings protests taking place in Southern California, in places that you wouldn't expect, in places in Orange county that I described on Friday. These are long standing Republican strongholds. Placid, suburban, had never seen a protest or a rally before. I didn't want to go to Orange county because Orange county is a bridge too far for me as a Los Angeleno. But I went up back to my old stomping grounds, which is almost as. Not as Republican, but almost as placid and certainly was a. The San Fernando Valley is a suburban. It's a lot like Long island, right? It's a moderate. What used to be Thought of as moderate Republican or moderate Democrat kind of place. And I saw a no Kings rally outside the Sherman Oaks Galleria, home of the Valley Girl and Fast Times, Ridgemont High, where they shot a lot of that movie and then noted that there was a rally up in Simi Valley, which people who don't know the area very well is a very Republican area. It was where Rodney King got beaten all those years ago. Both of those two protests were. There were two of, I think, about 15 or 16 marches, rallies around no Kings in the San Fernando Valley alone, All of them drawing nothing like the kind of crowd that was in downtown Los Angeles, but robust crowds and robust. And all the things that people have been saying all day, suburban, normal Americans, many of them, kind of almost an atmosphere of kind of jubilant. They're trying to show resolve, but also trying to show that they were not anything like what Donald Trump had caricatured them as, utterly peaceful, completely chill, and also very firm in their resolve and feeling as though they were taking place in a very. Taking part in a very American tradition of protest. And that is true. It is a very American tradition. But I will say, as someone who grew up in the same Fernando Valley, San Fernando Valley, never seen things like this before. I mean, this is not a place where political activism really happens. And I don't want to be. There's probably some San Fernando Valley historian who's going to tell me that there was a protest around something that Cesar Chavez did many, many years ago. I'm not trying to claim that I absolutely know there's never been a protest of any kind in the San Fernando Valley. But having grown up there, that was not a common occurrence and certainly not anything I can remember from the years that I spent there as a kid. And I think it's not changed very much over time. These are places where that kind of activism is not. Is not the norm by any means, and are certainly not liberal enclaves. And yet people were out in force on Saturday and they showed the best of what this movement can be, and I would say as a challenge to the people who are involved in organizing it, what it has to continue to be. Because the question now going forward is how to keep this momentum going and how to continue to flex this muscle, which 7 million people is an incredibly impressive number. It's incredibly impressive. And it clearly, as you said, got under Donald Trump's skin and got the administration agitated and made him behave in a way that's, if you can believe it, even more vulgar than his usual self with that AI generated image. But the strength of this movement, the ultimate effect of this movement, is going to only be achieved through repetition. And that's what we know about the big social movements in America, whether it was the war against the movement, against the war in Vietnam or the civil rights movement. These are not things that are. These are not one by one rally. They're not one by. No matter how impressive that rally is, the work goes on. And so then the challenge to be consistent and continue to, if not necessarily on this scale, but in every instance, continue to show the best side, the most idealistic side, the most peaceful side, the most determined side, that is, it's a high bar. I don't have any reason to think that these organizers can't continue to do it, but they're going to have to if they want to have the kind of impact that they clearly want to have.

Nicole Wallace (24:39)

Think you guys, you guys don't generally engage in false binaries, but the notion that it's either or, either we can have a robust movement or we can be looking for a candidate. And of course, the notion of the knight in white satin on the steed, who's going to come, the perfect candidate, who's going to come and save us. That is a mistake that people made during Trump 1.0. I would point out that it wasn't just politicians, but people did that to Bob Mueller, too. Mueller will save us. You know, it's Mueller time was another example of that, the way we try to personify things rather than think about them in a broader sense. But Eddie is 100% right that elections are not the end of politics and that the project of making America a better, fairer, more egalitarian, more democratic place that lives up to the ideals that are laid out in the Constitution, that is an ongoing effort. And elections are just punctuation marks along the way. But I think it's important to be thinking about the fact that elections really matter a lot, as we've learned. And I know you guys aren't saying the opposite, but looking for a savior is wrong. The American people are the only people who can save themselves. But it's also the case that the civil rights movement cared a lot about getting the Voting Rights act passed. They cared a lot about getting the Civil Rights act passed. They cared a lot about having, about putting pressure on the political process so that legislation that would help change the country was implemented. Did that mean the civil rights movement was over once those two laws were passed? It did not. Not by a long shot. But that doesn't. I don't want to minimize those, nor do I want to minimize how important it is for this movement to harness energy. Some of it to stop bad things from happening, some of it to think about the better America that we want to try to build. But also, I think everyone will agree, winning in the midterms is a pretty important thing for Anybody who's on Team Democracy, let's put it that way, not necessarily a member of the Democratic Party, but someone who wants to be on Team Democracy, getting back some power in Washington matters a ton in terms of both stopping Trump and in terms of building anything positive going forward. And the 2028 presidential election is going to matter a lot, too. And I think this movement needs to be thinking about how it can work its will over those processes, rather than understanding that it has an independent force, but that those processes do exist. And there needs to be, when the time is right, this energy needs to be channeled in a constructive way towards accomplishing some political ends, too.

Hunter Dunn (31:10)

We do have an amazing ability to persuade. And if I have one criticism of the Democratic Party, besides being beholden to, like, corporate billionaires, the number one thing is that they have forgotten the ability to persuade people. And we're seeing younger candidates do that. We're seeing more progressive candidates doing that. We're seeing the no Kings Coalition doing that. But you can sit down with people who believe that you are a traitor, who hates America, who believe that I am the leader of Antifa, even though Antifa is not an organization. Right. You can sit down with those people and you can break bread. You can convince them, you can pull them out of it. I've done it personally. I've seen it happen. I went to a borderline Christian nationalist university. And there's still an amazing way to reach people if you know what they care about, if you can access their empathy. Another thing is, again, this is not a sprint. I wouldn't even call it a marathon. It's more of like a relay race. There's different steps to this. Mass mobilizations are just one step in a broader strategy. And the next step involves community level organizing. That is the most important thing you can be doing right now. There's other stuff going on too. I know some of my friends at 5051, some of my friends at the Working Families Party are working on boycott toolkits. Like they did an amazing job boycotting Disney to get Jimmy Kimmel back on it there. They're trying to do the same thing to Home Depot and other companies are supporting the Trump regime. Those pillars upholding this regime. We can shake them and we can crush them. Another thing is voting is necessary. It's incredibly important to vote. But just because we don't have a perfect candidate doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking for better candidates. And I'm sorry, that's on the Democratic Party. They need to stop running people like Haley Stevens and they need to start running people like Cat, people like Mandani, people like Brad Lander, people who are willing to fight, people who are young, people who are willing to come out there and not be beholden to the corporate billionaires that put Trump in office, but are beholden to the people because we need a government that is by and for the people. We need a government that is putting the people of this country first and putting the interests of all of humanity before we put the interest of profit in. In the interest of corporation.

John Heilman (35:35)

And it's not just immigrants who have been caught up in the Trump administration's lawlessness. Stunning new reporting by ProPublica finds that at least 170 U.S. citizens have been caught up in the Trump campaign. Trump's campaign of mass deportation. ProPublica reports this quote. Americans have been dragged, tackled, beaten, tased, and shot by immigration agents. They've had their necks kneeled on. They've been held outside in the rain while in their underwear. At least three citizens were pregnant when agents detained them. One of those women had already had the door of her home blown off while Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem watched. Among the citizens detained are nearly 20 children, including two who have cancer. That includes four who were held for weeks with their undocumented mother and without access to their family's attorney until a congresswoman intervened this is not an accident. It is the inevitable result of the way that Donald Trump's Department of Homeland Security has empowered ICE agents and one that puts us that much closer to an autocracy. ProPublica reports this, quote. Current and former national security officials described the legions of masked immigration officers operating in near total anonymity on the orders of the President as the crossing of a line that had long set the United States apart from the world's most repressive regimes. One former senior DHS official who was involved in oversight said that what is happening on American streets today, quote, gives me goosebumps. We are at an inflection point in history right now and it is frightening. Joining us now is Nicole Foy. She's ProPublica's Ansel Payne fellow covering immigration and labor. She's bylined on that report reporting about more than 170 US citizens detained by immigration agents. Also joining us, former Department of Justice pardon lawyer Liz Oyer. And Eddie Glad is still with me. ProPublica has been amazing, always amazing, but especially ProPublica's reporting and journalism on this time. This feels like the first draft of history. And at a human level, I don't want to separate out American citizens from the brutality, but I do want to understand why learning that people are American citizens doesn't put any pause in the system for ice.