← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"What did Trump know about Epstein’s crimes?”
00:40:59
The latest drop of Epstein files raises more questions than it answers about Donald Trump and other high profile figures’ connections to the disgraced predator.
Loading summary
Transcript75 lines
- [00:01]
VRBO Narrator
At vrbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support. So we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered.
- [00:29]
Bubba Wallace
Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick.
- [00:31]
Tyler Reddick
You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results?
- [00:34]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Waiting for the green flag to drop.
- [00:36]
Tyler Reddick
Instead of pacing, we rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.
- [00:40]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain.
- [00:43]
Tyler Reddick
Play for free@chumbacasino.com let's Chumba no purchase necessary.
- [00:48]
Advertisement Voice
VGW Group Voidwear prohibited by law.
- [00:50]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino. Hi there everyone. It's four o' clock in New York and we start today with the first significant break in the search for Nancy Guthrie, the 84 year old mom of our colleague of many years, the host of the Today show, Savannah Guthrie. For the first time, the FBI has released images of a subject. They've released six surveillance photos and three videos this afternoon. Photos taken from outside Nancy Guthrie's home near Tucson, Arizona on the morning of her disappearance, Sunday, February 1st. The images show a subject appearing to be wearing gloves and a ski mask and carrying a backpack. The FBI says the subject is armed and appears in the photos and videos to be tampering with the camera at the front door. Authorities are asking that anyone with any information call 1-800- call FBI. 1-800-C-A L L FBI. It's an extraordinary development comes 10 days since Nancy Guthrie's disappearance after police said her doorbell camera was disconnected at 1:40 and then later detected a person at 2:12am In a statement today, the FBI said it has been working alongside the Pima County Sheriff's Department and private sector partners to, quote, recover any images or video footage from Nancy Guthrie's home that may have been lost, corrupted or inaccessible due to a variety of factors including the removal of recording devices. This afternoon, Savannah Guthrie shared this video of the potential subject on her social media accounts and wrote this quote, someone out there recognizes this person. We believe she is still out there. Bring her home. We're going to leave that number on your screen. Again, it's 1-800-call FBI. You could also call 911 or if you had any information, you could call the Pima County Sheriff's office at 520-351-4900. That is where we start today. Justice and intelligence reporter Ken Delaney is here. Also joining us, former assistant special agent in charge at the FBI and national security and intelligence analyst Michael Feinberg is here. And our reporter Alex Tabit is on the ground for us in tuc. Alex, take me inside. The significance of this development.
- [03:08]
Alex Tabit (Reporter)
It is just so largely significant because of the information that it provides not just to investigators but also to the public. In these new three new videos, these six new photos, you see a lot of identifiable markers, right? You see a ski mask, a backpack, a jacket with a very distinguishable zipper. Just yesterday, we saw Savannah Guthrie post a video on her Instagram asking the public to help, help to help with tips, to call in to provide any information they may have. Well, now the public is aware of what to look out for. To look out for a jacket with that zipper, look out for a man with a handgun, the type that is revealed in these photographs, in these videos. Now, a big question that people have been asking is will we be able to get more photos, more videos from this scene? And when it comes to the neighbors, it seems unlikely. And that is because this neighborhood, the Catt Lena foothills here in Tucson, has no street lights, has no lighting at all. It's really eerily dark at night. It's also quite an affluent neighborhood, and the properties are quite large. So what that means is the security cameras from one neighbor to another are quite a fair distance away. And another thing that I think should be noted about the terrain in this neighborhood, Nicole, is just how many washes there are kind of large divots, canals that exist between these properties. And that raises an outstanding question. These new video, these new photos, they don't show a car out the outside of this home. The car might be there, but we don't see it. And there is at least the possibility that whoever abducted Nancy Guthrie might have escaped by foot between these canals, between these washes, as they're called in this neighborhood. Still, so many questions than answers. But these new videos are just so helpful as the FBI pleads for new tips. And I just want to read out that number for you one more time if you're a member of the public who recognizes any of the marks in these new images. It's 1-800- call FBI. Or you can call the Pima County Sheriff's Department directly at 520-351-4900. Nicole.
- [05:24]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Michael Feinberg, explain the process that the FBI will go through now to Match up what the things are that Alex is talking about. A distinct jacket, whatever. Those gloves are the kind of gun with spec. So people can say, if you know anyone that has these things, you know, maybe let us know.
- [05:49]
Bubba Wallace
So it's not just going to be the specific products, but it's going to be when were they purchased? Because, you know, particularly in the Southwest, in the West, a lot of people have weaponry. A lot of handguns are out there. But the way this individual is wearing his, in what we would call an appendix carry, but outside the waistband, as opposed to being tucked in, indicates that he's not somebody who's particularly proficient with firearms, in my view, because that's an incredibly unsafe and inconvenient way to wear a handgun. And he's also wearing a holster with no retention strap, which makes it even more haphazard. So I think they'd be looking for somebody who very recently purchased or acquired a handgun as opposed to somebody who's been shooting for a long time. The other thing we can really draw from this video is that this person does not appear to have been particularly sophisticated or well prepared, because if he had been involved in some sort of reconnaissance of the property beforehand, he would have been aware of the camera and had something better than a bush he pulled out of the ground to obfuscate it. The other thing I would caution people to remember is this is a minute slice of an incident that has been ongoing now for almost a week. And we should not extrapolate more than is absolutely necessary from this video. And that includes drawing the conclusion that this is the other individual, the only individual who is involved. You know, at point out, most houses have more than one point of entry and egress. And if, as Alex stated, it's possible that this person absconded on foot, it would be very difficult to do so with an unwilling victim unless you had additional help. So, you know, we should be very glad this video is out there. But at the same time, we should realize that there are a lot more unanswered questions than there are conclusions we can draw.
- [08:11]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Really, really helpful and sobering analysis, Kendallanian. Tell us what your reporting suggests about how we got to this point where this footage was either restored or accessed and made public.
- [08:27]
Tyler Reddick
That's actually a very interesting story, Nicole, because remember, the sheriff told us last week that the perpetrator or perpetrators took with them the doorbell camera. We know now that it's a nest system. And so they didn't have images from that. And apparently there were. There was not a subscription that stored the video on the cloud the way some of us have, who have these cameras. So what Kash Patel said when he released these images, these chilling images that really represent an enormous break in this case, is that it came from residual data on back end systems that Nest, which is owned by Google. Their engineers went to work along with perhaps the FBI and local officials and scoured their systems to figure out where might snippets of video and imagery live. And they found it. Now, privacy activists are already expressing alarm about the fact that, you know, doorbell cameras that supposedly are not uploading footage to the cloud are nonetheless sending imagery back to the company. But in this case, it's an absolute, a wonderful development because it changes our understanding of this case. I mean, last week the authorities were saying they weren't even sure it was a kidnapping. Now it's clear what happened. You have a masked armed man and the images, in addition to what our colleagues said, the fact that one video shows the gait of this individual is hugely significant. Law enforcement sources are telling me, because a gate can be very unique to a person. And people who know a person well would recognize the gate almost immediately watching a video of it. And you can clearly see this person ambling up to the door through the archway. You can see distinctive clothing, running shoes. And the way the person has the gun holstered in the center of his front belt is a very unusual, I've never seen that before. And Rob d', Amico, our contributor, who's a former hostage rescue team member of the FBI, said he's never seen that before. And so that may tell someone something. So now we can just hope that some member of the public recognizes something in this video and we get further breaks in this case.
- [10:34]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Nicole, Michael Feinberg, let me come back to you on that. I mean, this is the timeline that authorities released last week that at 1:47am the doorbell camera is disconnected. Now it looks like that is what's happening on this video. So I would guess that's happening around 1:47am Then at 2:12am Law enforcement released that time and they said this happens. Software detects person on camera. What does that say to you? Is that different software?
- [11:04]
Bubba Wallace
No, what it says to me again is we may be dealing with more than one person. Because what that timeline suggests is that the individual who we just saw on video comes to the house and functionally removes the doorbell camera from its inset position in the door and hides it. And then about a half hour passes before a person is picked up again in a less in A form that does not give us video images, but is merely software capturing motion. So there's a couple things that could be going on. The individual coming up to the door in the video could have removed the camera and then waited a half hour to make sure that nobody noticed the change before he decided to force entry to the household. He could have been in an advance party that was removing the camera for other people who came later. Again, there's just so many possibilities here that it's really difficult to know which thread we should pull at. But at least now we do have some video coverage of at least one person who is involved, and hopefully that can lead to others. And, you know, again, now that we know exactly what time this happened and what direction the individual approached from, there may be additional stuff that, say, the FBI's Cellular Analysis Survey team can do with the various towers in that area. And that could actually help us sort of geo locate where this individual was at other points in time throughout the evening, which may provide some real solid leads for the investigators.
- [12:53]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Michael, there's this unbearable, I think, human desire to want to believe that law enforcement is like the proverbial iceberg, right? And what we all have available to us with some of the best journalists that cover these things, it's just the tip. And there's a lot more that they know underwater. Is that true in this case, do you think?
- [13:13]
Bubba Wallace
I think that is true generally. And it is also almost invariably more true in kidnapping cases than it is in any other sort of crime, for the simple reason that when somebody well known or connected to somebody well known is abducted, there's going to be a lot of people who call in who know nothing about the actual crime, but are trying to take advantage of the situation for their own pecuniary benefit by withholding information from the public that law enforcement knows, they are able to use that as a sort of filtering mechanism to ask questions of people who claim to be involved that only those who really were would know. So, you know, it is pretty rare for me to come on your show and defend the director of the FBI these days, but the fact that there's been less information put out to the public than we would normally expect is actually quite savvy.
- [14:17]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
It would appear that Donald Trump is watching this case closely. Ken Delaney and his. He's had some things to say about it. His press secretary talked about it at the briefing to say that he, Donald Trump and I were reviewing the newly released surveillance footage. Obviously, if this is your loved one, if this is, you know, anyone's loved one. You hope and pray that every resource can be brought to bear. Is there any sense from covering this that that's had any impact on the investigation at this point?
- [14:55]
Tyler Reddick
Oh, I think clearly, and you know, this is generally true, Nicole, when prominent people are kidnapped as opposed to unknown people, prominent cases like this get more attention, they get national attention. And when there's a media spotlight like this, it spurs the government to greater action. That's not fair, but that's how life works. And in this case, it plays right into Donald Trump's obsession with celebrity and his obsession with watching things on television where this case has played out a lot. And so for the Guthrie family, that's a great thing because it means that the top officials in the government are paying very close attention and holding people accountable and making sure that every resource is being brought to bear. The attorney general, Pam Bondi, said she's known Savannah Guthrie for 30 years and she's focused on this. Kash Patel, the FBI director, very focused on this case. And so that's all a good thing, and we can only hope that it comes to some fruition soon.
- [15:49]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Alex, Savannah Guthrie is obviously a dear colleague to all of us. I think at different points has boosted just about everyone in this company up professionally and or personally. What is it like covering this story, covering one of our peers at an incredibly, what she's described as a harrowing, harrowing and desperate hour?
- [16:17]
Alex Tabit (Reporter)
What I'll say is not just as a former colleague of Savannah Guthrie, but being here in the community of Tucson. You can really feel how this has shaken the community. Every coffee shop, every gas station, every restaurant that you go to in Tucson, people are chattering about this case, anxiously talking about this investigation. We are seeing people pray, drive from 20, 30 minutes away all throughout Tucson to this home to pray for Nancy Guthrie. And one woman told me that that's because she feels so connected to Savannah Guthrie through the Today show. She feels like she's her friend. She feels in some way like she's her family. And she told me verbatim, it doesn't feel like Savannah's mom. This feels like all of our moms. So this community is deeply, deeply moved by this situation right now.
- [17:26]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Nicole, I think everybody is. I think it's an excruciating moment for everybody, for anyone who could imagine being in her shoes, but especially everyone who knows her and works with her. Michael, let me just ask you to pull that string forward that you're talking about. What do you think happens next in terms of terms of what the public will be asked to do and what the public will learn.
- [17:50]
Bubba Wallace
The public's not necessarily going to be asked to do anything. It already hasn't, which is to call into the tip line and submit leads to the FBI. But what's probably going to happen is there's going to be a wave of those tips that the FBI is going to need to triage, prioritize, and sort through. And the triaging and prioritizing should not be taken to mean that there's any they're not going to follow up on. They just have to figure out which is the most acute. Thankfully, a lot of what could be done doesn't have to be done in Tucson itself. To the extent that footage needs to be reviewed, call records need to be analyzed, what have you. Those are all things that the FBI's 30 odd thousand employees can do remotely from any office in the country. What I would like to think is happening and what I hope is happening is that agents from field offices throughout the southwest, not just in Arizona, have deployed to the scene so that when a lead does look promising, there is no shortage of people to go suss it out, conduct interviews, run surveillance, examine physical sites, and so on and so forth. The FBI is very good at some things, not very good at others. But one of the things it really does excel at is surging resources when necessary for a critical case. And I can only assume that is what is happening now.
- [19:23]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Can I ask a dumb question? It looks like his eyeballs are sort of, at least at one point on camera. And I know there are some technologies like the clear system at airports. I mean, is that a piece of information that's useful, Michael?
- [19:42]
Bubba Wallace
It could be, but my instinct is to say probably not, for two reasons. I don't know that the resolution of the video we've seen is enough that you could actually pull information about what somebody's retinal scan would look like from that. And also, just there aren't as many collections or databases that have a statistically significant portion of society's retinal scans in them against which this could be matched. You know, it's not like fingerprints, where almost everybody in the country has at some point given theirs to law enforcement. The number of people who've had their eyes scanned is orders of magnitude smaller.
- [20:31]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Michael, thank you for lending your expertise to this story. Ken and Alex, your reporting is brilliant and sensitive, and I appreciate both of you. Thank you. Michael, we're gonna have you stick around a little bit longer. I wanna put the number up one more time. 1-800- call FBI 1,800C a l l FBI. Should we learn anything new on this story over the next two hours? We'll come back to the three of you and all of you watching when we return. There are new questions about the ties between the deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. And his cabinet and allies will bring you that reporting and the details from the newly released files that show just how inconsistent their public statements have been over the years. Plus, immigration officials are on Capitol Hill today refusing to answer questions and refusing to apologize for the killing of two U.S. citizens in the city of Minneapolis. We'll show you some of that heated hearing today. A lot more to get to on a busy day of news when Deadline White House continues after quick, quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [21:36]
Bubba Wallace
Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick.
- [21:38]
Tyler Reddick
You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results?
- [21:41]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Waiting for the green flag to drop.
- [21:43]
Tyler Reddick
Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases.
- [21:47]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain.
- [21:50]
Tyler Reddick
Play for free@chumbacasino.com let's Chumba.
- [21:54]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
No purchase necessary.
- [21:56]
Advertisement Voice
VGW Group Void where prohibited by law.
- [21:58]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino.
- [22:04]
Advertisement Voice
As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda, follow along with the MSNow newsletter Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
- [22:20]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
The American people are basically telling the.
- [22:22]
VRBO Narrator
President that they are not okay with any of this.
- [22:25]
Advertisement Voice
Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter at Ms. Now Project 47.
- [22:35]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
There is brand new reporting from Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald. She's been a trailblazer on the Epstein story. Once again, calls into question every single statement Trump puts forward when it comes to the central issue. What did Donald Trump know and when did he know it about Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking? From that reporting, quote, in July 2006, just as Jeffrey Epstein's criminal sex charge became public, Donald Trump called then Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryder to tell him that Epstein's activities with teenage girls were well known in both New York and Palm Beach. Reiter recalled his conversation with Trump in a 2019 interview with the FBI. More from the reporting, quote, thank goodness you're stopping him. Everyone has known he's been doing this. Trump told Reider. Reuter told FBI agents that Donald Trump revealed that Epstein's associate Ghislaine Maxwell was Epstein's, quote, operative and that Donald Trump said, quote, she is evil and to focus on her. According to the reporting, Trump told Reiter that, quote, he was around Epstein once when teenagers were present, and Trump got the hell out of there. The report said Donald Trump also told Ryder that he threw Epstein out of his Mar a Lago club. A Justice Department official tells us that, quote, we are not aware of any corroborating evidence that the President contacted law enforcement 20 years ago. While this squares with something the White House has said in the past, it does not square with what Trump has said himself about the past. This is from 2019, the days after Jeffrey Epstein's arrest. Did you have any suspicions that he was molesting young women?
- [24:21]
Bubba Wallace
I had no idea. I haven't spoken to him in many, many years.
- [24:27]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
If, quote, everyone has known he's been doing this, as Trump reportedly put it. And Trump himself was with Epstein when there were teenagers present and, quote, got the hell out of there, as he said. Why didn't he contact authorities? Why didn't he contact authorities when Epstein, quote, stole Trump's words, not ours. Survivor Virginia Roberts Giuffre from her job at the Spa Mar a Lago in the year 2000. Trump did say this, though, about all that back in July of this year, last year.
- [25:02]
Bubba Wallace
Yeah, he took people. And because he took people, they say, don't do it anymore. You know, they work for me. And he took beyond that, he took some others. And once he did that, that was the end of him. I didn't like when they steal people. I don't like it.
- [25:19]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Stealing people, stealing people. It's worth noting Trump did say something about Epstein's proclivities, but it was not to law enforcement. It was to a reporter writing an article in New York magazine in the year 2002. He said this, quote, about Jeffrey Epstein. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side, end quote. From Donald Trump. I want to bring in once again to our coverage, Jess Michaels. She's a survivor of abuse by Jeffrey Epstein. She's become a fierce advocate for accountability from the government and part of this sisterhood of survivors. Also joining us, New York Times investigative reporter Mike Schmidt. Michael Feinberg is still with us as well. Jess, I know you're in D.C. advocating for something, and I know that you guys are trying to build something better and stronger and more durable in the place of all of your trauma. And so let me first ask you about Virginia's law.
- [26:22]
Jess Michaels (Survivor Advocate)
Thank you. Firstly, thank you so much for having me, Nicole. And it was a beautiful and painful morning where Virginia's law was announced. And it is a statute of limitations on sexual abuse and trafficking victims, removing statute of limitations. And it will have a one year window. So anyone that has ever been sexually abused or trafficked will have a one year look back window.
- [26:51]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Did you feel and I know this is not a scientific question, but were there, was it a bipartisan reception to the announcement?
- [27:00]
Jess Michaels (Survivor Advocate)
That's a great question. I don't know. It was just a press conference, so we didn't get to talk to anyone. We did hear powerful statements from Chuck Schumer and Teresa Fernandez and was very happy to stand with sky and Amanda Roberts, who helped create this Bill with Sigrid McCauley.
- [27:21]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
You have signed onto a letter responding to Attorney General Pam Bondi and how they've handled the release of what they have released in response to the passage of the law. Let me read from that letter and let's talk about that a little bit. You write in recent all the survivors, right. In recent days, senior Justice Department officials have suggested that the latest release of Epstein related files represents transparency and that survivors should now have the closure we deserve. We must be clear, this release does not provide closure. It feels instead like a deliberate attempt to intimidate survivors, punish those who came forward and reinforced the same culture of secrecy that allowed Jeffrey Epstein's crimes to continue for decades. First, the redactions and disclosures in this release are reckless and dangerous. Survivors names and identifying details have once again been exposed. Second, this release remains incomplete in a way that's both staggering and indefensible. The government has acknowledged that millions of pages are being withheld with no explanation of what is missing, why it is missing, or if the rest will be released. Survivors are being asked to accept fractions, fragments of significantly redacted material, while the full architecture of Epstein's trafficking network remains concealed. This was made so clear by Congressman Ro Khanna and Congressman Jimmy Raskin who went in. They said they were there for two hours and they saw the names of six men, three American men who they said were not from politics, but prominent men and three men from abroad. So even in a cursory look, it's clear that the men's names are redacted and many of the survivors personal. And as you said, identifying information was revealed. What is the process for flipping that on its head?
- [29:12]
Jess Michaels (Survivor Advocate)
That's actually a wonderful question. That's part of the list of questions that we've presented to Congress or to the House Judiciary Committee to ask Pam Bondi tomorrow. There's a lot that has not been answered and the redactions are so egregious. I just really want to make the point that survivors identifying information, not just their full names, but we're talking birthdays, addresses, phone numbers, nude photos were all released and yet very meticulously we didn't see any co conspirator names.
- [29:49]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
So.
- [29:50]
Jess Michaels (Survivor Advocate)
So when we say this feels deliberate, it is not an exaggeration and the problem cannot be overstated that this job was so botched. Pam Bonney should be hanging her head in shame right now.
- [30:09]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Yeah, I want to ask you to stick around because a fascinating dynamic has emerged in that in in the UK heads are rolling politically and in at least one law firm there's been fallout, but not in our politics. I want to ask you about that. I also want to bring Mike Schmidt and Michael Feinberg into that conversation first. We'll sneak in a quick break. Everyone will be right back. On the other side, why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust trust him to care for our kids.
- [30:46]
Howard Lutnick
We only met a month ago. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.
- [30:52]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Looking for a little extra fun? Chumba Casino lets you play for free with daily login rewards and a cheeky little welcome bonus when you sign up. Explore hundreds of online social casino games and jump in whenever it works for you. No routines, no pressure, just entertainment on your terms. That's Chumba. No purchase necessary VGW group void where prohibited by log. See terms and conditions for details.
- [31:21]
Advertisement Voice
21/ Start your day with the MSNow Daily Newsletter each morning. Read sharp insights from the voices you trust. Catch standout moments from your favorite shows.
- [31:32]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
The second Trump administration has gone to.
- [31:34]
VRBO Narrator
Unprecedented lengths to radically transform America.
- [31:37]
Advertisement Voice
Stay up to speed on our latest podcast and MSNow events and get fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. It's everything you love about MSNow delivered to your inbox. Sign up at Ms. Now.
- [31:55]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Already facing calls to resign from Democrats and at least one Republican Republican Congressman Thomas Massie. Donald Trump's Commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, admitted this morning that he actually had a deeper relationship with Jeffrey Epstein than he has originally publicly claimed. Before we show you what he said earlier today, we're going to show you what Letnick said on a New York Post podcast back in October. He claimed that after just one encounter in the year 2005, he decided that he would never, ever, ever, ever, ever be in the same room with Epstein again. Watch.
- [32:29]
Howard Lutnick
So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going because he's gross.
- [32:44]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Never in the room with him for business, social, or even philanthropy. But here's what the same guy, Secretary Letnick, said today.
- [32:56]
Bubba Wallace
Did you, in fact, make the visit.
- [32:57]
Alex Tabit (Reporter)
To Jeffrey Epstein's private island?
- [33:01]
Howard Lutnick
I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. I had another couple. They were there as well with their children. And we had lunch on the island, that is true, for an hour. And we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together. We were on family vacation. We were not apart to suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012. I don't recall why we did it, but we did.
- [33:41]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
We're back with Jess, Mike and Michael. And I guess the question is, what is untoward is not what's being pointed out. What's being pointed out is that people have lied about their associations with dead, convicted child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. And, Mike, I know you have some reporting this week about Brad Karp, the leader of the law firm Paul Weiss, who is no longer in his job because his name appears in the Epstein files. Take us through this sort of second tier of revelations where people have either lied about their associations with Epstein or when they've come to light, they're not seen in the same way and not able to, at least in the case of Brad Karp, continue.
- [34:25]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Professionally, I find it particularly interesting in the era that we live in where the line is and, you know, sometimes in the Trump story, we see it and sometimes we don't. In the case of Brad Karp, the head of the law firm Paul Weiss, we saw that his emails with Epstein and what appeared to be his Chinese with Epstein is what did him in. And what's significant about that is that Karp is the one who struggles, struck this widely criticized deal with Trump earlier this year, becoming the first law firm to make a deal with the president to end an executive order in that case, that didn't have any impact on Karp's standing in the firm. And he, in a sense, he was doing that, he said, to protect the firm. But when it came out that he had asked Jeffrey Epstein to help his kid with getting a job. And it came out that Jeffrey Epstein had sent him some obscene emails and that Karp had replied to them. Those for the law firm where he worked was too much. And there was a meeting of senior leaders at the firm who got together and made the decision that Karp should no longer run it and that he had to step aside. And Karp had been able to weather the fallout from the executive order. The legal community widely criticized him. Many top litigators at the firm left and went to work elsewhere, or they quit or they retired. But in the case of the Epstein files, Karp's ties to Epstein through his representation of Leon Black was ultimately too much for the firm. And just to see where the line is for different institutions in regards to the Trump story. And the Epstein story is interesting because obviously, if you had a cabinet secretary and another administration who made openly false statements about something related to a child sex trafficker, there would be severe ramifications that appeared to not be there so far for Secretary Lutnick.
- [36:30]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Let me just make sure I understand what brag Karp emailed Jeffrey Epstein about. It appears from the reporting that he's giving him legal advice about how to disparage victims of child sex trafficking. I just want to read from your story. Mr. Karp advised Mr. Epstein on a case involving some of the women who accused Mr. Epstein of abusing them as minors. As children. Quote, the draft motion is in great shape. It's overwhelmingly persuasive. Truly. Brad Karp wrote in March of 2019 in an email to Mr. Epstein, quote, I particularly like the argument that the victims in parentheses lied in weight and sat on their rights for strategic advantage, knowing you were in prison before they came forward. Karp added, I mean, doesn't this speak to his character? He's accusing child victims of sex trafficking and rape of lying in wait and sitting on their rights for strategic advantage. Are they disputing the authenticity of that, or did Brad Karp write that to Jeffrey Epstein?
- [37:31]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Mike Karp has not disputed the authenticity of any of the emails that came out. That has not been part of the pushback whatsoever. And it was simply that he was stepping aside from the firm. You know, the thing is, is that the firm has had these emails for many years. The firm knew the communications he was having with Jeffrey Epstein because they were. They came through Brad Karp's email address at Paul Weiss. So if Paul Weiss knew that the government had these materials, Paul Weiss knew that Karp had been interacting with Epstein, they knew that this was going to come out at some point. But it was only when it did come out and the press reported on it that there was actual action and movement against Brad Karp internally to have him undone. The firm could have seen these emails whenever they have wanted over the past few years.
- [38:28]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
It's just amazing that it's not just that they were playing, I don't know, badminton together. It's that he's giving him legal advice on a filing meant to undermine the claims and credibility of child, of minors, of victims who were minors at the time. I need you all to stick around through one more break. We'll all be right back. On the other side. Initially my reaction to all this was I don't care. I don't know what the big deal is. But now I see what the big deal is and it was worth investigating. And the members of Congress that have been pushing this were not wrong. So that's, that's really my only reaction that matters because that was the Republican, Wyoming Republican Senator Cynthia Loomis, realizing now, finally what a big bleeping deal the Epstein files are and why there's such a push to investigate. We're back with Jess, Mike and Michael. Jess, are you aware of any victims doing what in an email to Jeffrey Epstein, attorney Brad Karp says is the victims, quote, lying in wait and sitting on their rights for strategic advantage, knowing that Epstein was in prison before coming forward?
- [39:52]
Jess Michaels (Survivor Advocate)
No, that is the explanation for that is that we don't have a trauma informed justice system, that there is really not an understanding of how devastating sexual harm is to a nervous system and to a brain and how much it detrimentally affects every single aspect of our existence. And so that is someone that just does not understand the damage.
- [40:23]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Michael Feinberg, let me ask you about. They're not optics, but the reality that this is the elite, elite, elite, elite lawyer at an elite law firm with emails to a now dead convicted child sex trafficker. It's a terrible look. What are the prospects of actually piercing this power center and getting the truth out?
- [40:51]
Bubba Wallace
If such a piercing is possible, it is not going to be spurred by any act of conscience among the people involved. If we've learned anything through the Epstein scandal or really any scandal that touches this administration, it is that Trump's circle is really defined by two characteristics. The first is a complete lack of shame whatsoever and the second is a wholly non monogamous relationship with the Trump truth. These are people who will not blush at the most abhorrent acts known to mankind and who will repeatedly lie about it. I mean, you know, I'd imagine if I, like Howard Lutnick, was casually yachting throughout the oceans with my family and happened to stop at the private island of a known sex trafficker who would later kill himself in prison. It's something that would make an impression. I mean, I don't know, maybe it's the sort of thing he does all the time, but these people fundamentally look to obfuscate the things they've done the minute it becomes embarrassing. The simpler solution is just don't do those things in the first place or.
- [42:13]
Nicole (Host/Interviewer)
Tell the truth the first, second, third, fourth or fifth time somebody asks. It is extraordinary. You're all so informed and we're so grateful to get to talk to all of you, especially you, Jess. Thank you. Mike Schmidt, thank you for your reporting. Michael Feinberg, thank you for spending the whole hour with me. After the break, we're learning more about the Trump FBI investigation into Fulton County 2020 election ballots. And it should come as no surprise that the referral came from one of the Stop the Steal lawyers. We'll bring you that reporting. After a court order, Donald Trump's Justice Department unsealed the search warrant affidavit they used to justify the FBI's rather unprecedented raid of Fulton County's elections office with Tulsi Gabbard on site and the seizure of troves of 2020 election ballots, ballots which Donald Trump has repeatedly and falsely claimed are riddled with fraud. The affidavit appears to be based on Donald Trump's same tired conspiracy theories. It states, quote, the FBI claim criminal investigation originated from referrals sent by Kurt Olson, Trump's appointed director of election security and integrity. Olson was one of Donald Trump's Stop the Steal election denial lawyers in 2020. In a statement today, Georgia's Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger criticized the attempts to relitigate 2020 yet again, saying this, quote, as secretary of state, I've made Georgia the safest and most secure place to vote. Instead of wasting time and tax dollars trying to change the past with baseless and repack names, let's focus our efforts on building a safer, more affordable future for all hard working Georgians. After the break. Immigration officials in Washington, D.C. today pressed by Democrats for the first time since the killing of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy at the hands of ICE agents. We'll bring that to you next.
- [44:07]
Chumba Casino Advertiser
Ready for big fun Start for free at Chumba Casino. Sign up and enjoy a welcome bonus with gold coins and sweeps coins to explore hundreds of online social casino games all from your phone. Spin, play and discover something new whenever you feel like it with no downloads needed. More games, more ways to play. Let's Jumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by log. See Terms and conditions for details. 21 plus.