Deadline: White House — “What does it mean to run Venezuela?”

Host: Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW
Date: January 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode analyzes the aftermath and broader impact of a stunning U.S. military operation that captured Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife, bringing them to New York to face criminal charges. Host Nicolle Wallace and a panel of national security experts, former diplomats, and lawmakers discuss the operation's objectives, the Trump administration’s unclear strategy regarding Venezuela, and the consequential questions about U.S. foreign policy, regional stability, and military accountability. The show probes the ostensible motives for the intervention, the confusion about who is in charge, and the administration's open pursuit of Venezuela’s oil reserves.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The U.S. Military Operation in Venezuela

• Summary of events (07:14–08:11):

  • The U.S. military—with active CIA involvement—executed a successful raid to capture Maduro and his wife. A source reportedly aided the operation, which involved detailed planning including the construction of a replica safe house for rehearsals.
  • David Rohde: “Special forces were able to snatch President Maduro and his wife... It was just stunning.”

• Question of Purpose (08:11–09:08):

  • The operation is described as a tactical success but with an unclear strategic goal.
  • David Rohde: “[The] purpose for the Trump administration was essentially that Maduro was not bowing to President Trump’s demands… From their view: if you don’t listen to Donald Trump, the U.S. could come snatch you.” (08:19)

2. Confusion Over Who Runs Venezuela Now

• Contradictory Statements (01:34–02:29):

  • Trump: “We’re in charge” (01:41)
  • Secretary of State Marco Rubio and other officials pass responsibility among the Defense Department and DOJ.
  • Nicolle Wallace: “[Rubio] seemed to be tap dancing toward... running the country… which Donald Trump says we are doing, are two things… on opposite ends of the spectrum.” (02:29)

• Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling on "the Belly Button Rule" (03:57):

  • “A senior leader… must be able to point to one person and say, you are in charge. One person, one belly button… None of those three things are clear right now. Not who is in charge, not the timeline, not even the objective.”

3. Motives: Oil or Democracy?

• Trump’s Open Admission (05:09–05:36, 10:12–10:39):

  • Trump prioritizes access to Venezuela’s oil reserves over democratic restoration.
  • Donald Trump: “They [oil companies] want to go in so badly... We need total access.” (05:17, 10:12–10:39)
  • Nicolle Wallace: “Didn’t Donald Trump tell us what the objective was? … He’s screaming from the rooftops what the policy is about.”

• Skepticism About Oil Ventures (10:39–11:46):

  • Ex-ambassador James Story questions the practicality and risks for American companies investing in Venezuela amidst ongoing political instability.

4. Strategic and Political Fallout

• Regional Tensions (12:07–13:51):

  • Neighboring countries (Colombia, Brazil) react sharply; fears of destabilization and sovereignty violations.
  • Ambassador James Story: “At some point we’re going to ask Delsey Rodriguez to do something… she will not do it… The president is certainly making a number of statements that again, question the direction in which the administration wants to take this.”

• Historical Parallels & Implications (25:32–27:12):

  • U.S. intervention is likened to Panama in 1989.
  • James Story: “We haven’t invaded other countries in Latin America… Perhaps we’re going back to form.”

5. Congressional Concerns & Public Opinion

• Congress Kept in the Dark (31:32–32:42):

  • Lawmakers not briefed; administration misled Congress, citing drug interdiction not regime change.
  • Rep. Jason Crow: “Not only were we not briefed, but members of the administration lied to Congress… They hid this because… the American public does not want to get involved in another quagmire.”

• Public Opposition (18:07–19:04, 38:14):

  • 70% of Americans oppose U.S. military action in Venezuela (CBS poll).
  • Nicolle Wallace: “Large majorities… seven to three, oppose. That’s not good for the military either.”
  • Rep. Crow: “The country sees it the way you do.”

6. Democratic Values vs. Power Politics

• American Ideals vs. Resource Grabs (27:53–29:52):

  • Debate over whether the U.S. military should be used for ideals or material interests.
  • Lt. Gen. Hertling: “I was never fighting for things. I was fighting for ideas, ideologies… Listening to Ambassador Waltz at the UN… it just sent shivers up my spine because he has just signaled… that it's fine to take oil.”

• Global Precedents — "Might Makes Right" (34:39):

  • Rep. Crow: “As of Saturday, you have China and Russia looking at what just happened and they're thinking to themselves, why shouldn't I invade Taiwan?... The U.S. is setting an example that might makes right.”

7. Military Morale, Legality, and Leadership

• Civil-Military Relations (35:21–37:57):

  • Crow and experts discuss the burden placed on military personnel and the importance of lawful orders.
  • Rep. Crow: “When a five time draft dodger like Donald Trump bangs the war drums…it says to me that some young kid… has to pick up a rifle… It's never the elites in Washington...”

• Safeguarding Military Ethics (41:23–42:43):

  • Concerns over the purging of JAG officers and the ability of military to get sound legal advice.
  • Rep. Crow: “I'm deeply worried… the purging of the JAG officers… replaced with loyalists… that is the obligation of all leaders to prepare our soldiers… so they do the right thing.”

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• Trump: “We’re in charge.” (01:41)
• Lt. Gen. Hertling: “A senior leader… must be able to point to one person and say, you are in charge. One person, one belly button.” (03:57)
• Ex-ambassador Elliot Abrams: “The United States cannot run Venezuela. The worst thing… is to make some kind of deal with the regime’s remnants…” (04:10)
• Trump: “They want to go in [oil companies] so badly… We need total access.” (05:17)
• James Story: “...publicly traded companies… are going to be willing to put billions… into Venezuela [only] if there is a clear strategy…” (10:39)
• Lt. Gen. Hertling: “You don’t open a second front on your own accord… He hasn’t achieved what he’s looking to achieve yet…” (14:54)
• Rep. Jason Crow: “Not only were we not briefed, but members of the administration lied to Congress… They hid this because… the American public does not want to get involved in another quagmire…” (31:32)
• Rubio (rationale for operation): “You cannot continue to have the largest energy reserves in the world under the control of adversaries.” (21:20)
• Lt. Gen. Hertling: “I was never fighting for things. I was fighting for ideas, ideologies, values, and the people next to me.” (27:53)
• Rep. Crow: “The U.S. is setting an example that might makes right... Just think about the world that we will live in if that now reigns supreme.” (34:39)

Important Timestamps for Segments

• 01:34–02:29: Who’s in charge? Conflicting claims.
• 03:57: The “belly button rule”—why clarity of command is crucial.
• 07:14–08:11: How the U.S. captured Maduro — operational details.
• 10:12–11:46: Trump’s open collusion with oil companies.
• 18:07–19:04: Polling: American opposition to intervention.
• 21:20–21:56: Rubio on adversaries and oil reserve rationale.
• 27:53–29:52: Military values vs. resource-driven wars.
• 31:32–32:42: Congressional deception and lack of briefing.
• 34:39: Geopolitical ramifications—“might makes right.”
• 41:23–42:43: Military legal guidance and ethical concerns.

Original Tone & Language

• The episode is urgent, skeptical, and deeply critical of the Trump administration's opacity, penchant for transactional foreign policy, and disregard for established legal and ethical norms.
• Guests use clear, direct language, sometimes emotionally charged, drawing on military, diplomatic, and legislative experience.
• The host consistently pushes for accountability and emphasizes the disconnect between public messaging and private motives.

Takeaways

• The Trump administration’s approach to Venezuela lacks a clear, articulated strategy for post-operation governance.
• The justification for intervention is shifting, but frequently reverts to securing oil resources—a point Trump states openly.
• The panel agrees that U.S. actions set a dangerous global precedent, potentially inviting copycat aggression from rival powers.
• There is deep concern for rule of law, military ethical standards, neglected Congressional oversight, and threats to American democratic values—both at home and abroad.

For listeners who missed the episode:
This installment provides critical, behind-the-curtain analysis of a major foreign policy crisis, highlighting the extraordinary uncertainty about who controls Venezuela, the apparent realpolitik driving U.S. decisions, and the broader consequences of abrupt, unilateral American action in the region. The experts’ personal experience and pointed dialogue offer a raw, unvarnished look at how fast foreign interventions can spiral—and who truly pays the price.