← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“What happens if I speak up”
00:43:34
Nicolle Wallace discusses Trump’s blue city takeovers, John Bolton’s continued defiance, and threats to abortion access at the VA.
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- [00:01]
A
I think that you have to have faith that in the end it'll all be okay. That no matter who wins a presidential election, we will live in a democracy. The First Amendment will govern what journalists can say and do. The Constitution will protect the rights of everybody if you can agree that most people want those things. Our show is about trying to bend the arc toward that end result.
- [00:22]
B
Deadline White House with Nicole Wallace, weekdays from 4 to 6pm Eastern on MSNBC. Start your day with the MSNBC daily newsletter. Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up now@msnbc.com here's the most important point here.
- [00:51]
C
Justice Brandeis, over 100 years ago, the first Jewish American to sit on the Supreme Court. He said that we could either have a democracy or wealth in the hands of the concentrated few. He said, but we cannot have both. We are fighting for our democracy and our humanity. Right now, this president's nescience of the Constitution will leave irrevocable harm on posterity. That's why as mayor of the city of Chicago, we are standing up to tyranny. And American cities across this country are doing the same.
- [01:26]
A
Hi again, Everybody. It's now five o'clock in the east. It is is admittedly tempting to look away, to dismiss, to maybe write off as exaggeration or political hyperbole. But when people like the governor and Chicago's mayor facing the potential of federal troops arriving on his city streets suggests there's an ongoing struggle in our country against tyranny in the US we're going to ask you not to look away. Because this afternoon, perhaps more than ever before, Trump appears to be on the verge of landing a punch he began winding up years ago. It has to do with another word, dictator. When Fox News host Sean Hannity gave Donald Trump multiple chances to disavow that particular and specific ambition back In December of 2023, he promised he wouldn't be a dictator, quote, except on day one. Now on day 218. But who's counting? Amid a federal takeover of American cities, here's Trump's second try in two days to address claims that he has become a dictator.
- [02:32]
D
So the line is that I'm a dictator, but I stop crime. So a lot of people say, you know, if that's the case, I'd rather have a dictator. But I'm not a dictator. I just know how to stop crime.
- [02:45]
A
Many people are saying they want a dictator. Apparently that's not even true. If you take a closer Look. Days after leaders in Illinois and Maryland pressed Trump to keep the military out of their states and cities, New York City's Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch reportedly told Attorney General Pam Bondi that her city does not need the national guard. During the 30 minute meeting held late Monday afternoon at Police department headquarters in Manhattan, Commissioner Tisch noted the city's record low number of shootings and shooting victims. The official said it's no secret Trump has exclusively targeted Democratic leaning cities, a contradiction to the picture that the metrics about crime actually paint. At a town hall in Missouri, Republican Congressman Mark Alford, in possession of a fresh Trump endorsement, said he did not think the National Guard should be sent into cities unless the governor of the state asks for it. But that did not stop Alford from getting an earful from his own constituents, one of whom used that word we just talked about.
- [03:51]
C
I am pissed. And I'm pissed at you because I have emailed you because it's easier for me than to try to talk on the phone without profanity. I would appreciate you taking your father's U.S. constitution book. Read it, study it, make your own lines underneath it, and get Trump out of office. The man is a dictator. He knows nothing about what he talks about.
- [04:29]
D
I listened to him for about a.
- [04:31]
C
Half hour today and I got sick at all the lies and he brought up, you're not helping me. Believe me, you're not helping me. You need to take your head out of Trump's ass and start doing your your representation of us.
- [04:58]
A
We're going to leave it at that, where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Former acting Vice chief of the National Guard Bureau and member of the National Security Leaders for America. Retired Major General Randy Manor is here. Also joining us is retired U.S. marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel, co founder of the Truth in a barrel podcast. Amy McGrath is here, an MSNBC columnist and contributor, author of to the Contrary newsletter. Charlie Sykes is with us as well. I want to play one more piece of sound because I want to level set a conversation about crime in the actual facts about Republican led states and crime. Here's JB Pritzker on the topic yesterday.
- [05:40]
C
So in case there was any doubt as to the motivation behind Trump's military occupations, take note, 13 of the top 20 cities in homicide rate have Republican governors. None of these Cities is Chicago. Eight of the top 10 states with the highest homicide rates are led by Republicans. None of those states is Illinois. Memphis, Tennessee, Hattiesburg, Mississippi have higher crime rates than Chicago. And yet Donald Trump is sending Troops here and not there. Ask yourself why.
- [06:20]
A
Charlie Sykes, this is the most effective Democratic message on crime that I've ever heard. Eight of the top 10 states with the highest homicide rates are led by Republicans. None of those states is Illinois. Memphis, Tennessee, Hattiesburg, Mississippi have higher crime rates than Chicago. And yet Donald Trump is sending troops here and not there. Ask yourself why. That seems like something that is really important for Democrats to center this conversation around, that. This isn't about crime statistics. This is about the facts of crime in Republican led states and cities.
- [07:03]
C
Yes. And Governor Pritzker also did something else in that speech, though. He made it very, very clear that, hey, you know, we take crime very seriously. That's why we have increased the budget for police officers, why we have put more cops on the street, why we have passed a series of laws restricting, restricting high capacity magazines in guns. So, you know, he's saying, look, we have taken this very seriously. He also had a very interesting line in that speech where he talked about, if Donald Trump was so concerned about crime, why is he cutting so much funding to law enforcement? And he actually used the phrase, Trump is defunding the police. Yeah, Donald Trump is defunding the police. So this is part of the message that I think people need to, you know, push back on, which is that Democrats have to make it clear they take crime very, very seriously. And that what's happening in Chicago and what's probably going to happen in New York is not really about crime. It is, it is about, you know, the performative, you know, the performative retribution of Donald Trump that is all about politics. But that one speech by Governor Pritzker was probably one of the strongest speeches that I have seen by any elected official pushing back on Donald Trump. I'd urge people to read the transcript of that speech and to watch the video because that, frankly, is the way it's done.
- [08:24]
A
Amy, let me show you what Senator Tammy Duckworth said yesterday about what is actually happening, what troops are actually being used for.
- [08:35]
E
Donald Trump never had the courage himself to raise his right hand and serve his country in uniform. But let me just say from personal experience, and that consists of 23 years in the military, 17 of which proudly, as a member of the Illinois National.
- [08:54]
A
Guard, that the men and women who.
- [08:56]
E
Are brave enough to wear this country's flag on their shoulder are doing so to defend our nation's rights and freedoms, not to protect a tin pot dictator's thin skin or to police their own neighbors. It's not what they signed up for. And it's certainly not what their training is focused on. One of the most patriotic things you can do in this nation isn't necessarily serving in uniform. It is standing up and exercising your First Amendment rights and speaking truth to power.
- [09:28]
A
Amy, your thoughts?
- [09:31]
E
Well, I agree with her 100%. Look, those people that joined the military, we don't want to be used as political pawns, and we're not stupid. These soldiers that are there, they know why they're there. You know, and I feel like as Americans, and this isn't just true for Democrats, this is true across the board, particularly with people who lean to the right. Even we all want to tackle crime, but the misuse of our military, a lot of people feel like this is too far. We don't want to have a martial law in this country. And that's what it looks like. You know, soldiers patrolling our streets like we're in some third world country. I mean, you could talk to the furthest sort of conservative Republican here in Kentucky, and they kind of get that we don't want to see that in our country and troops don't want to be used that way. First of all, it's very, it costs a lot. These troops are not trained for policing. If you want to tackle policing, and I think that's really important to make sure that we have good law enforcement in this country. We all want to tackle crime, then we need more resources for policing. And that's, I think, the message that Democrats have to keep talking about here. This isn't about a crime. This is about Donald Trump misusing our military for political reasons only.
- [11:00]
A
Major General this is the Associated Press's reporting on the cost of this. Deploying troops in D.C. could cost taxpayers $1 million a day. This is according to Katherine Kuzminski, director of studies at the center for a New American Security, a bipartisan group that researches national security issues. The estimate is based on the per troop daily cost from 2021. The National Guard troops were responded to the January 7th attack on the US Capitol. January 6th attack states normally pay their Guard members and then get reimbursed by the federal government. If Trump follows through on his vow to send Guard troops to other cities like New York, Chicago or Baltimore over the objections of their governors, he would likely put the Guard under his command and have the federal government pay troops directly. So the cost to the prestige and trust of the military obviously reign supreme. But the actual cost is hefty as well.
- [12:00]
D
Yes. In fact, the $1 million a day, I think, is a very conservative estimate. I believe it will be much more than that. As was already expressed, if the president really is interested in law enforcement, he would be refunding the police instead of defunding it to get that $800 million back into the communities for community based policing, not taking military in uniform and putting them on our streets. Not only is that totally un American, it is an inappropriate use of our young men and women. They did not sign up for this. As Senator Duckworth said, this is all about we as the military, whether we're active or retired. We decided to raise our hand, defend the Constitution and defend our citizens overseas as well as for those citizens that are in need because of perhaps flooding or forest fires or hurricanes. And this idea of sending Americans walking around our American cities armed, especially the fact they're focused on those that are blue or have heavy minority concentrations, is just appalling to me and to most Americans and to most people in uniform.
- [13:11]
A
Major Java, we have played General John Kelly's Sound where he takes the rather extraordinary step of speaking in a recorded interview about why this isn't how you use the military. And he talks about all the instances where he tried to dissuade Donald Trump from doing this in a first term. Mark Esper also writes about this in his book, and I believe Mark Milley has talked about this in interviews or testimony before the January 6th committee. What does it say to you about the men and women around Donald Trump in 2.0 that it's happening?
- [13:53]
D
I think there are two major factors. The first is, is that he now is surrounding him with people that are literally focused on seizing power and maintaining power. And that includes in the 2026 elections as well as perhaps beyond. So he's surrounding himself compared to his first administration by people who know how to push the levers of power. The only things that are going to be in his way are, quite bluntly, is going to be significant legal action to challenge him at every turn. Number two is going to be strong willed leaders, both in Congress as well as those that are in our cities and our governors. And then most importantly is the people we have to exercise our First Amendment rights to speak up truthfully before we unfortunately lose them.
- [14:46]
A
Wow. A sobering but necessarily honest statement. Charlie Sykes. I know a lot of people have the analysis that we're living in a post political moment. I don't buy that. I think we're living in a moment where Trump is screaming at the top of his lungs about his political weakness. I think the whole effort to redraw maps, to squeak out one More seat in a place like Indiana where they already have seven. They want eight or nine. Screams of political weakness, reaching over to grab the steering wheel at the Fed. Screams of political desperation because the numbers on the economy are down to 33 and 35 on inflation and tariffs, respectively. I think the military in the streets and pretending it's about crime is an acknowledgment that what they funded and operationalized around immigration is such a loser, they've lost people like Joe Rogan, who may have made the electoral difference by bringing along his coalition to the MAGA coalition and electing him in November.
- [15:50]
C
Well, it may be a sign of weakness, but it's no less dangerous. I mean, this is a president who is acting as if he has no limits. He is testing all of the limits. Every one of the incidents that you described, he is knocking over what we thought at one time were guardrails, you know, constitutional guardrails, or norms of democracy. And so here is a president who is deep into his own ID, going through all of the things that he's fantasized about since he first came into the Oval Office. And so far, he has not been blocked. And so what he's doing is he is becoming more and more aggressive. The question is, how much damage can he do before he does come up against that roadblock? So whatever his motivation, whether he's thinking that he's weak or he's thinking that he's the emperor of the world and that he can do anything, we're seeing this in real time. And I think, and you and I have talked about this in the past, I think one of the problems that we faced dealing with Donald Trump has been a failure of imagination. How far would he go? How bad could it get? What would he do with the unchecked powers of the presidency? And people, you know, a lot of people, you know, smart kids, you know, shrugged their shoulders and said, well, it can't be that bad, right? I mean, you know, surely he won't do this or he won't do that. Well, again, in real time, we are seeing what he is capable of doing, what he is empowered to do, and what he is doing on city streets with the Fed in terms of, you know, one thing after another, the taking over of private companies. So Donald Trump is giving us, in real time, a brutal reality check about how far fragile our constitutional republic really is.
- [17:33]
A
I've not heard you sound this. I don't want to put words in your, in your, in your id, but this pessimistic about how much progress he's made in such a short time. Are you optimistic that the country endures?
- [17:50]
C
Well, I'm alarmed. And that was another one of the lines that Governor Pritzker said. If I sound alarmist, it's been because I'm trying to sound the alarm. We need to sound the alarm. And so I make the distinction between optimism and hope. Optimism is just the belief that things are going to work out, things are going to get better. I'm not an optimist, but I do have hope that at some point the fundamental decency of the American people and the durability of our institutions, which we have not seen on display very much, will prove we'll be able to push back against them. But I guess the point is to understand the magnitude of the moment, the gravity of the moment and what he is doing and the fact that he's even willing to talk about being a dictator, that he's willing to ignore the Constitution as blatantly as he has the fact that he is putting armed troops into city streets. You know, all of this, you know, may feel like some sort of a dystopian nightmare, but it is literally the times that we are living in. And this is the time you open your eyes, see what's happening, because this is not something we are simply imagining. We are not the ones who are suffering from the Trump derangement syndrome. The people who are looking at this and going, that's fine, they are the ones who suffer from tds.
- [19:12]
A
I think that's exactly right. And I think the other thing, thing that is so different is there are no institutions that have held, you know, the private legal profession that championed support of Robert Mueller and impeachments of Donald Trump. They are now working for the Trump administration for free firms like Paul Weiss. The heralded law firms are now with sort of MAGA adjacent or at least diplomatic attorneys making deals, making deals with the Trump White House under, I guess, some faith that the deals will hold or that Trump will hold up his end of the bargain. And Republicans who have championed against everything that Trump has done are now complicit cheerleaders of clearly of government owned industry, of government takeovers, of independent agencies, that if a Democrat even joked about doing any of these things, they'd launch impeachment hearings of their own. Amy, I want to press you on what's going on under the surface at the military. I have to sneak in a quick break. Also ahead for us, more on Trump's threats to deploy National Guard troops to more American cities and the pushback we're seeing from Democrats. Plus not backing down. The latest target of Trump's retribution campaign, John Bolton has some very choice words for his former boss, proving he will not shy away from speaking out even after after the FBI searched his home and office. And we'll bring you the latest on a move by the Trump administration as it tries to rip away vital health care from women who have served our country in uniform. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Sling has more of the live sports, news and entertainment channels you love and less of the ones you don't. So you save hundreds on tv.
- [20:56]
C
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- [20:58]
A
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- [21:08]
C
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- [21:10]
A
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- [21:14]
B
MSNBC presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Each week Nicole speaks with some of the people who inspire her the most. This week she sits down with writer producer Phil Rosenthal.
- [21:29]
C
I'm only using food and my stupid sense of humor to get you that real message, which is I think the world would be better if we all could experience a little bit of other people's experiences.
- [21:38]
B
The Best people with Nicole Wallace Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNBC original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace. Why is this Happening? Main justice and more, plus new episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddows original series Ultra Bagman and Deja News. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [22:17]
A
We're back with we're back with General Randy Manor, Amy McGrath and Charlie Sykes. Amy, what do you hear about what is going on beneath the surface inside the Pentagon, where every single headline for Pete Hegseth is disastrous, Every single post seems so political and so extreme in nature, and Trump seems totally undeterred from politicizing the men and women of the military.
- [22:46]
E
Well, when it comes to Pete Hegseth, mostly what I hear is people are trying to do their jobs around him, meaning that he is typically a distraction to what they're trying to do, which is defend the country. But in terms of Donald Trump and his use of the military, I think people are still alarmed and I think the people inside the military are are still sort of Particularly the leadership sort of trying to feel this out. Look, I have enormous faith in the men and women that lead our military and their professionalism. But like every other institution, as was mentioned earlier by Charlie, a lot of these institutions are sort of that we thought would stand up, have, have, have not. And what you've seen from the Trump administration, Nicole, with firing, remember the firing of the top lawyers at the beginning of his administration in the military, the firing of former four star admirals and generals, that all sends a chilling message to those men and women who serve and the leadership in terms of what they want to stand up for and against with this, with this president. So I think that's where we're at right now.
- [23:58]
A
I mean, to your point, all the JAG officers were fired. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs was fired. I think that he, heads of the Air Force, the Coast Guard were fired. Hegsest seems to purge someone or more usually more than one. About once a week or about every 10 days, there are more firings from his inner circle. How stable is the leadership of the Pentagon right now?
- [24:26]
E
Well, I think, again, I think the professionalism is we have the best people in the world leading and that's a good thing. I think the concern, of course, is that when you fire the head of the NSA and the DIA and when you, and you see the circumstances behind that, so the firing of the DIA official, you know, the Defense Intelligence Agency came out with a report that basically said that, you know, maybe we didn't obliterate the Iranian nuclear facilities as much as the President said, wow, then he was sacked, you know, a couple weeks later. That sends a message that is very concerning to, because then you're in the military and now you're like, hey, do I give the correct information to this president? Do I give the correct information my best advice to the people of the United States and to this administration, or am I going to get fired? And that is what they're concerned about, and that is a national security concern. I don't think we've ever had a president or a time when the military has felt like they could not be honest with the President because they are scared of being fired.
- [25:37]
A
General Manor, the two sides of that coin seem to be that operational security is treated recklessly on signal chats that include journalists. But the integrity of the truth that they are duty bound to share with policymakers is punished. How does the military survive in that climate?
- [25:58]
D
Amy is spot on about her assessment that the officer corps is very concerned about their ability to say the truth and to speak to truth, to data. That is actually starting to have a negative impact in my mind on our ability to provide the best military advice to the President. Because the President doesn't want to hear the best advice. He wants to hear what he wants to hear. And that sends that chilling effect. Before the election, I was very vocal about that the President could actually change the military into his personal army within two years because he has the authority to nominate and to fire officers. And it is actually happening much more rapidly than I felt was possible. I think all of your viewers have to understand that this is ongoing, it is real, that he is purging the military who do not give him the information that he wants. This is not some economic gain. This is not about building real estate or buying real estate. This is about defending our nation against those parts of the world that would very likely to see us on our knees. And the more this happens in the same way that it happened in Russia with Stalin, the same way it happened with Hitler. Eventually you get generals and admirals that are in there that only tell the leader what he or she wants to hear, and that's the downfall of that particular nation. We must not go there. We must be able to stand up for defending the Constitution. And right now that is at risk, in my opinion.
- [27:42]
A
General, I'll say what I just said to Charlie. In our many conversations, I have never heard you sound this alarmed. And I wonder if you think the public is one seeing or hearing or understanding. I imagine even viewers of Fox News care about the ability of the American military to defend America from our enemies. And I wonder if you think people understand how much more vulnerable we are from a national security perspective. If the heads of the DIA is the Defense Intelligence Agency, they're like the intelligence branch within the Pentagon. If they get fired because they make an honest assessment about the effectiveness of a mission that they carried out brilliantly and on the command of the commander in chief. Do you think that people in this country understand that firing that person makes everyone in America less safe?
- [28:41]
D
I believe the average American does not understand the gravity and the difficulty of what we are facing because they really have not had the opportunity or the need to worry about it or to be concerned about it. The way the average American needs to think about this is if you would like to have, for example, someone to come into your home and to do some work and the you hire a plumber, but yet the plumber really doesn't know much about plumbing and they start to do things for you and it doesn't Work well, that's your own responsibility. The idea is you want the best plumber you can possibly have. You don't want someone in there just because they're going to be loyal to you and tell you what you want to hear, like, oh, you don't have a problem with your plumbing. That's the same thing that our nation needs in its national security leaders and its military. We want the best and the brightest officers that are there to provide the best advice and counsel to the President and to be able to advise him on which are the courses of action that are available to him to maximize the outcome that is desired by the President overseas, while at the same time minimizing the loss of life among our fellow American soldiers and military members, as well as, of course, the loss of life. To minimize the loss of life on the other side. Our goal is not to go out there and to kill large numbers of people. It is instead to ensure that our country is safe and that our people are able to lead a good lifestyle, not only at home, but also that our trade routes are obviously secure and that we can indeed have free trade to be able to live in a safe environment and have good jobs and feel good and hopeful about the future. That's why we've got to have the best and the brightest and not yes men in our military.
- [30:33]
A
Charlie Sykes, we are so far from that. Seven months into the Trump administration and these are his first round draft picks. Except for Matt Gaetz, he didn't make it. What do you allow yourself to think about how much farther he'll go in denigrating institutions like the Pentagon in another three and a half years?
- [30:57]
C
Well, I think we all have to think about that because this is the first six months. I mean, you know, he has, you know, he's dropped an atomic bomb on the Department of Justice. He has his hands on the criminal justice apparatus of this country. He is getting personal control of the US Military. He wants to control the economy, wants to control the Fed. We've seen how he has reached out to the law firms, you know, brought them to their knees and to universities. We've never seen anything remotely like this. And this is just the first six months. So he is testing the limits of everything. And I think that the general's warnings are not overstated. I think that we, we need to be concerned about this. I mean, it's easy to focus on the fact that he has stocked these agencies with mediocrities and time servers and sycophants, because that's what authoritarians will often do. But the goal here is to give him control of this. And so we shouldn't be in any illusions that Donald Trump has succeeded in. I mean, he's got the guns, he's got the criminal justice system. And so as you're watching all of this, you know, and you're watching what happens to John Bolton, you watch the fact that he's tweeting about Nicole Wallace. At what point do people need to look at one another and says, what makes you think that he's not gonna come after you at some point? Who in this country actually does not, is not in a position that they have to wake up at three in the morning going, wow, what happens if I speak up? We use words like chilling. What does that actually mean? It means being afraid, afraid of your government. And Donald Trump, frankly, is giving people reasons to be afraid because he has, he has the weapons, he has the instruments, and so far, no one has stopped him.
- [32:44]
A
Haunting, ominous, honest, vital words from all of you. General Randy Manor, Charlie Sykes. Thank you, Amy Sticks around. Up next for us, just days ago, the home and office, as we've been discussing, a former national security advisor, John Bolton, was searched by Donald Trump's FBI. But that's not scaring John Bolton into submission. It's not chilling him. We'll bring you his first public comment since that search after a quick break.
- [33:16]
B
Saturday, October 11th. From New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts, Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Bruszinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Haynes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Ruhl and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets today. Start your day with the MSNBC Daily Newsletter. Sharp insights from voices you trust, standout moments from your favorite shows, and fresh perspectives from experts shaping the news. Sign up now@msnbc.com.
- [34:04]
A
After many, many business leaders, law firms, Ivy League universities, all made the decision to cave and capitulate in the wake of Donald Trump's threats and intimacy intimidation campaigns, former National Security adviser John Bolton's refusal to back down is notable because it comes after his home was searched by Donald Trump's FBI. In a new op ed in the Washington Examiner, John Bolton's first public comment since that search, Bolton slams Donald Trump's tactics on the Russia invasion of Ukraine. Bolton writes this, quote, trump's Ukraine policy is not more coherent today than it was last Friday when his administration executed search warrants against my home and office, collapsing in confusion Haste and the absence of any discernible meeting of the minds among Ukraine, Russia, several European countries and America, Trump's negotiations may be in their last throws along with his Nobel Peace Prize campaign. Joining our conversation, President of Reproductive Freedom for all, Mini Timaraju. Amy as still with us as well, Minnie. This, this isn't really about John Bolton. Right. This is about one of the first former Trump national security officials to be targeted by what Donald Trump said he was running on in Waco when he announced his campaign. He said, quote, I am your retribution. And it was retribution for what he viewed as unjust investigation, investigations and prosecutions of him at the time, I think there were four. What is your sense of whether the contagiousness of capitulation could also be something that defiance could spread if more and more people are publicly defiant?
- [35:55]
F
You know, I think you said it. What's really notable is that John Bolton is continuing to criticize Trump, but also that he's a member of his former administration. You know, we are seeing Democratic governors, Democratic legislators, activists across the country standing up against the Trump administration's overreach in Washington, D.C. you know, in Chicago, in Los Angeles, against ICE raids, folks being kidnapped. We have not seen prominent conservatives and Republicans in this position standing up to Donald Trump. And I think that's really critical in every country. You know, you can examine where you've had a rise in fascism. You need to see opposition from every side, including from their own party. So this is really notable. Even though I don't think there's much that John Bolton and I agree upon, I think this is really an important moment, and hopefully it does catch on.
- [36:49]
A
Well, and to your point about the larger tectonic plates, I mean, if you look at countries where autocracy has come sort of pounding on the door, the ones that, you know, sort of pull up from the nosedive into autocracy are the ones that form these coalitions among which no one has anything in common other than not wanting to live in an autocracy. And so I wonder if you, if that's. Are you finding yourself open to new alliances? I guess is what I want to ask you.
- [37:21]
F
I think we have to. You know, I'm actually at a meeting with hundreds of Democrats right now, and we're all really examining what we can do to broaden the base, broaden the tent, make those alliances with sensible, patriotic Republicans and independents. This is a crisis moment. You know, this is when we have to put aside some of our ideological concerns, some of our policy differences. Obviously, the one that I work on, on abortion rights is a big one for many. And talk about how do we save our democracy first. We can't move forward on any major policy debate or discussion if we cannot ensure we have our democracy intact.
- [38:03]
A
And Amy, you come from what used to be this precious part of American debate, the lack of a partisan bend to our military. Trump has trampled over that. He's taken that away from us. Do you see that sort of reshaping a bipartisan pro democracy movement?
- [38:26]
E
I think it's one piece of that, Nicole. I mean, look, this was this whole theme of country over party, of just standing up for our democracy and doing what's right. We can have disagreements on policy, but we can't have a disagreement on the Constitution itself. Okay? And those members of the military swear an oath to the Constitution. And it seems like that's a line too far to cross when you start bringing in the military and making it a political weapon. So I'm hoping that Americans really see this and are able to get beyond the sort of red shirt, blue shirt and come together and say, look, this guy, this president has gone too far. And it's such a contrast with John Bolton, right? Because look at somebody like him versus the spineless, feckless Republicans in office right now who know what Donald Trump is doing is wrong. They know it and they're unable to stand up. And it takes some leaders, it takes some John Bolton's out there to get it going. That's what we need.
- [39:39]
A
The thing about John Bolton is even if you hate everything he says, John Thune doesn't. He agrees with all of his foreign policy views. Mitch McCon, Ronald doesn't. He agrees with all of his foreign policy views. Jenny Ernst doesn't. She agrees with all of his foreign policy reviews. So it is a mirror to what you're talking about, the fecklessness of the Republicans in service to Trump. I want both of you to stick around. We have an important story to get to A policy the Biden administration put in place at Veterans affairs hospitals, which the VA called at the time essential is now in the crosshairs of the Trump administration. The latest on the effort to take away, to strip away critical care for women who served in the US Military. That's next. After promising all women that he would be their, quote, protector on the campaign trail, Donald Trump is now trying to strip away vitally needed health care from the women who have served our country in the military. The Washington Post reports that the Trump administration is working to end abortion access at Veterans Affairs Hospitals, which is currently permitted in cases of rape, incest or health of the mother, even in states with bans. The policy of allowing these select abortions to be performed was implemented by the Biden administration in response to the Dobbs ruling. The Washington Post reports this, quote, the VA said at the time that those bans, some near total, were, quote, creating urgent risks to the lives of, of pregnant veterans. Thus, VA said the policy change was essential. We're back with Minnie and Amy. Minnie, take me inside. This really, really dangerous attempt to change policy.
- [41:22]
F
You know, the Biden administration took so many executive actions and administrative rules to try to piece together abortion access where they could. And this was a critical one with leadership from the top ranks of the va. You know, this is yet another hit on abortion access by this administration. Rolling back Biden administration efforts think this, this rule, as well as reversing the EMTALA protections, the emergency care protections, the FDA reconsidering authorization of medication abortion, the list goes on. What we're seeing now is this rule, proposed rule reversal was August 3rd. We're coming up to the end of the comment period. This administration could reverse this as soon as the week after Labor Day. So this is yet another commitment, as laid out in Project 2025, to restrict and ban abortion in every administrative way possible. And they're going to get away with it because they have the numbers in Congress. But also, also, it's really hard to cut through the noise around this administration and communicate with voters about what's happening despite his campaign promises.
- [42:36]
A
I mean, Amy, I think if you explain to voters that a woman could serve her country in uniform halfway around the world and live to come home and start a family, but die because of pregnancy complication, I think most voters, men and women, would care.
- [42:55]
E
Yeah, it's really real. You know, we have this perception of veterans being slightly older, perhaps even my age. But you know what? You do four years, Nicole, and you're enlisted as a woman. You come out of the military at age 22. And, you know, a lot of women, vets obviously want to have children like I do. And this is bigger than just abortion access, because what they're doing is with all of what they're doing in a lot of the VAs is gutting health care. And gutting health care for women veterans is sort of the lowest hanging fruit. So they're gutting access to obgyn. So it's bigger than just that one important piece of women's health care. And if you take a step back, really, we know what Donald Trump thinks about women in the military, right? The moment that he nominated Pete Hegseth to be secretary of defense, the moment that Republicans confirmed that man to be secretary of defense, it was a slap in the face to all women who currently serve and have served. And so this is not unexpected, as was previously mentioned, hard sometimes to talk to voters because, you know, women vets were, we, we're in the thousands, but we're still, you know, anywhere from 15 to 30% of the military, depending on the service that you're in. But it's real. We served our country overseas, put our, our names on the dotted line for Uncle Sam to send us off. And like any other veteran, like any male veteran, women deserve women vets deserve health care. And that's not, unfortunately, that's not what Donald Trump wants.
- [44:46]
A
Unbelievable. Minnie and Amy, thank you for making time to have this conversation with us. We'll stay on it one more break. We'll be right back.
- [44:57]
C
Most people around the world are so much better than their governments. We all feel that no matter where I speak and I say this, I'm doing a right now, a big North American tour right now. Everywhere I go, even in the Midwest, which we think is going to be a certain way, there's a lot of people who are feeling what we feel, that we don't want our humanity to slip away and we don't want criminals, literal criminals, leading us and telling us what's right and wrong when we know better.
- [45:36]
A
That was Phil Rosenthal, the star of the smash hit Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix. He's my guest on this week's episode of the Best People. The the show that he is on is so good, and whether you've seen it or not, listen to him in this podcast. His show may become a family favorite in your house, as it is in mine. In our conversation for the podcast, we talk about everything from embracing other cultures to why food is a great connector and why diners just might save our democracy. Scan the QR code on your screen to watch this week's episode on YouTube. As always, you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll listen and shoot me a note on bluesky or Instagram and let me know what you think. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes today. We are grateful.
- [46:30]
B
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- [46:38]
C
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- [47:43]
B
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C
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