Podcast Summary: Deadline: White House – "What Orwell Wrote"

Host: Nicolle Wallace
Date: January 9, 2026
Guests: Ian Bassin (Protect Democracy), Michael Feinberg (Fmr. FBI/National Security Analyst), Michelle Norris (Senior Contributor, Minneapolis native), Aisha Gomez (MN State Representative), Jacob Soboroff (MSNOW Journalist)

Overview

This episode opens with an urgent discussion about disinformation, government accountability, and the erosion of truth in a moment of deep national trauma. Using George Orwell’s warning from 1984 as its anchor, it explores the Trump administration’s response to the police shooting of Renee Nicole Goode in Minneapolis, efforts to rewrite the narrative around January 6th, and broader questions of law enforcement, truth, and democracy. The panel analyzes the political, moral, and legal implications of these events while centering the pain, resilience, and activism within affected communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Orwell’s Warning and Government Disinformation

[01:16-05:54]

• Nicolle Wallace frames the episode around Donald Trump’s infamous directive: “Don’t believe what you see with your own eyes,” comparing it to Orwell’s 1984 command: “The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
• The Trump administration is accused of prematurely concluding that the Minneapolis shooting was “domestic terrorism,” preempting investigation and shutting out state authorities from the process.
• FBI control over the investigation, excluding Minnesota state agencies, raises accusations of a cover-up and a lack of transparency.

2. Militarization & Dangerous Precedents

[05:54-08:35]

• Ian Bassin cautions about the administration’s earlier floating of U.S. city “military training grounds” and its tangible consequences: “That is not the federal government coming in to protect our streets and clean up dangerous cities. That is the federal government coming in to create danger where there hadn’t been previously.” [06:50]
• He highlights the unprecedented militarization and the abandoning of long-standing norms about honesty and transparency in government communication.

3. Collapse of Accountability and Shame

[08:35-11:09]

• Wallace and Bassin lament the loss of political cost for lying, recalling when fact-checking could still shame officials into honesty.
• Bassin: “One of the evil geniuses of Donald Trump is he has learned that if you just flood the zone with…shameful behavior…eventually the system loses the ability to hold anyone accountable.” [10:30]
• The guests discuss a system overwhelmed by constant scandal, in which reputational damage and norms no longer have power.

4. Consequences for Institutions and Public Trust

[11:09-14:59]

• Wallace: Asks what this means for public servants in crucial agencies—when leaders destroy credibility, it deeply demoralizes staff and jeopardizes public safety.
• Feinberg: Points to Orwell’s call to “face unpleasant facts”: “We see what is essentially the execution of a civilian on a Minnesota street and are told that we are witnessing a heroic agent stopping domestic terrorism. That is not what happened.” [12:57]
• He warns that authoritarians maintain power by redefining reality and urges persistent truth-telling as a means of resistance.

5. Community Response & Grassroots Resilience

[14:59-16:51]

• Michelle Norris explains that while exhaustion and confusion are typical tools of authoritarian regimes, in Minneapolis, she observes not fatigue but resilience: “People are in no ways tired… They are showing up in larger numbers... bringing water, they're bringing snacks... They’re not tired.” [15:14]
• She worries that excluding local investigators undercuts trust, echoing past chants: “No justice, no peace.” [16:26]

6. Official Responses and Political Blame

[16:51-19:55]

• The show plays Senator J.D. Vance’s defense of the federal narrative, which Wallace deconstructs as “blaming this tragedy on the victim... and the, quote, far left.”
• Bassin counters that federal rules explicitly forbid agents from shooting at drivers in such situations: “I don’t know what J.D. Vance is talking about. He needs to read up on the rules of the government.” [19:10]

7. U.S. Foreign Policy Overdrive: Venezuela and Greenland

[22:18-28:02]

• Wallace and guests discuss Trump’s open plans for long-term U.S. military presence and resource extraction in Venezuela, and the bizarre push for American control over Greenland.
• Congress—at least in one procedural vote—makes rare bipartisan moves to reassert war powers, which Bassin views as a possible revival of separation-of-powers mechanisms.
• Bassin: “The best case scenario for the moment we’re in is that the checks and balances… start to revive themselves...” [24:49]
• He points to state initiatives (like Governor Hochul’s proposed legislation) as ways to provide accountability for federal abuses.

8. Four Levels of Checks and Balances

[28:02-33:01]

• Bassin outlines needed safeguards:
  • Stronger Congressional oversight—especially in law enforcement training and war powers
  • State legal actions and legislation for constitutional accountability
  • Local prosecution of federal officers where possible
  • Civic engagement: “If all else fails... the most vibrancy and the most resilience, the most courage and the most strength is the American people.”
• The “work” of democracy is described as local, collective, and ongoing.

9. Democracy, Dehumanization, and the Moral Challenge

[30:15-33:01]

• Wallace and Bassin argue that a decade of dehumanization politics against immigrants set the stage for current abuses.
• Bassin: “Democratic societies... are rare in the course of global history. Most of human history is a story of violence... It takes work... to maintain a free and democratic society.” [31:36]
• They close with a call to dignify and re-humanize public discourse and action.

10. Trauma, Community Organization, and What People Can Do

[35:54-42:04]

• Gov. Tim Walz decries ICE’s “inhumanity” and the chaos brought to Minneapolis schools.
• Aisha Gomez: Offers a moving account of trauma, resilience, and mutual aid in Minneapolis: “10,000 people are involved in community defense… The way that we can help… is to organize your own community.” [39:45]
• She condemns what she calls “secret police” tactics and federal overreach in traumatized neighborhoods, connecting current violence to the legacy of George Floyd’s murder.

11. Culture Within ICE/Border Patrol and What Comes Next

[42:18-45:36]

• Jacob Soboroff analyzes Greg Bovino’s role at the heart of the enforcement operation, describing a persistent culture of dehumanization and violence in Border Patrol’s history.
• The social backlash to these tactics is growing, reminiscent of the explosive response to family separation under Trump’s first term.
• The Trump administration’s hard line is contrasted with prior leadership: “You haven’t heard him [Trump] waffle one bit [on raids].” [44:48]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Nicolle Wallace [01:16]: “Ripped from the pages of George Orwell’s 1984...‘don’t believe what you see with your own eyes.’...That is where we start today.”
• Ian Bassin [06:50]: “That is the federal government coming in to create danger where there hadn’t been previously.”
• Ian Bassin [10:30]: “He has kind of blown up... that element of [the system of checks], where now even shame and scandal is no longer a sufficient check, because it is so rampant in his administration.”
• Michael Feinberg [12:57]: “We see what is essentially the execution of a civilian on a Minnesota street and are told that we are witnessing a heroic agent stopping domestic terrorism. That is not what happened.”
• Michelle Norris [15:14]: “People are in no ways tired in Minneapolis. They are showing up in larger numbers... They’re not tired.”
• Nicolle Wallace [16:51]: “J.D. Vance is blaming this tragedy on the victim... The threat to law enforcement is from Donald Trump...”
• Ian Bassin [19:10]: “He needs to read his own government’s regulations. DOJ rules...are very clear...federal officials are not allowed to discharge those weapons at the person driving the car.”
• Ian Bassin [24:49]: “...the checks and balances that the founders had established... perhaps could shake some of our checks and balances out of their slumber.”
• Aisha Gomez [39:45]: “The way that we can respond to the authoritarian threat that is posed by this administration... is the same way that we have always responded as human beings in the face of oppression and injustice. We have come together and we have organized...”
• Jacob Soboroff [43:10]: “This is a culture within the Border Patrol that I think has existed for a long time... it’s part of the culture that’s ingrained within immigration enforcement in the United States for a generation.”

Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:16 | Wallace opens with Orwell quote, lays out episode’s main theme | | 05:54 | Ian Bassin on militarization and federal overreach | | 07:13 | Bassin on erosion of truth and government accountability | | 08:35 | Wallace and Bassin discuss end of accountability and political shame | | 12:24 | Michael Feinberg on Orwell’s lesson and facing reality | | 14:59 | Michelle Norris on local resilience and stakes of trust | | 17:19 | Vance’s controversial remarks and Wallace’s reaction | | 22:18 | Shift to foreign policy: Trump’s plans for Venezuela and Greenland, congressional response | | 24:49 | Bassin on possible rebirth of checks and balances | | 28:02 | Bassin outlines practical checks: federal, state, civil society | | 31:22 | “Democracy takes work”—re-humanizing public life | | 35:54 | Governor Tim Walz and Aisha Gomez on ICE in MN schools and community trauma | | 39:45 | Gomez: “what people can do” and community organizing | | 42:32 | Soboroff on Border Patrol culture and what’s next |

Closing Reflection

Throughout the episode, Wallace and her guests return to Orwell’s core warning: the ultimate tool of authoritarianism is to deny people the evidence of their own eyes and ears. The panel’s discussion weaves together the immediate tragedy in Minneapolis, the corrosion of truth and accountability in Washington, and the persistent, resilient responses emerging in targeted communities. Their message: democracy depends on seeing reality clearly, telling the truth boldly, and organizing collectively to safeguard transparency, justice, and human dignity.