← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"What the Clinton testimonies shows us"
00:41:30
In the latest in the Epstein probe, the Clintons testified before the House Oversight Committee.
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A
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- [02:46]
C
We have real questions that deserve serious answers from former President Clinton. And we have said from day one that Democrats want to talk to anyone, whether they are a Republican or a Democrat, no matter how powerful they are, whatever position that they've been in. Anyone has information about Jeffrey Epstein and certainly the horror that he inflicted on so many women and children. We want to hear from them. Republicans have now set a new precedent, which is to bring in presidents and former presidents to testify. So we're once again going to make that call that we did yesterday. We are now asking and demanding that President Trump officially come in and testify in front of the Oversight Committee. He appears in the Epstein files next to, next to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell almost more than anybody else.
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B
No one is more uncomfortable with Bill Clinton testifying than Donald Trump. Here's what he had to say about it this morning.
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D
Are you concerned at all about President Bill Clinton being deposed and that that sets precedent for you and your family?
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B
I don't like seeing him deposed, but, you know, they certainly went after me a lot more than that. I don't like him.
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D
I don't like him.
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B
Look, I like. I like him and I don't like seeing him depose. He said that just a few hours before Democratic Congressman Maxwell Frost revealed that Clinton undercut one of the claims Donald Trump has been making about Jeffrey Epstein. Frost tweeted this, quote, president Clinton brought up a conversation he had with Donald Trump in New York City regarding Epstein. President Clinton said that Trump told him that he had a falling out with Epstein due to a land dispute. This directly refutes Donald Trump's claims about why he fell out with Epstein. In a tweet, the Democrats on the House Oversight Committee say this, quote, president Clinton confirmed that he knew Trump and Epstein had a close relationship and said Trump reported having, quote, great times with Epstein. Clinton's deposition is also adding to the questions about whether Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, should also testify. This photo appears to show Howard Lutnick with Jeffrey Epstein on Epstein's island, along with a friend of Lutnick's, Michael Lerman. This photo was removed from the files by the Justice Department at some point and then restored last night. We cannot say definitively when this photo was taken, but emails show that Letnick, his wife and their children, as well as Lerman, visited Jeffrey Epstein in 2012. Letnick admitted to that visit in a congressional hearing just a few months after he went on a podcast and said, quote, I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy, end quote. I guess an island isn't a room. We have reached out to Lutnick's associate Michael Lerman and have yet to hear back with any comment from him. A former president's deposition underscoring the need for those in Trump world to also come clean about any ties to deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein is where we start today. Ben Weider is here. He's an investigative reporter for the Miami Herald. We've been reading and talking about his cover this week for the last couple days. We're happy he's here. Also joining us, former acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security, the Justice Department. Mary McCord is here. Our friend Danny Bensky, a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein's, will join us at the table in a few minutes. Mary McCord, I start with you. Your thoughts about just how, just how thorough the Oversight Committee has been and what you're seeing come out perhaps not as the Republicans would have wanted. I mean, Bill Clinton is testifying about Epstein and confirming that in his sworn testimony that Donald Trump told him that they had a falling out over real estate.
- [06:46]
E
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple of ways to look at it. Once the people are in the room, it does appear that the Democrats and the Republicans, well, aren't going to be asking a lot of questions. These depositions are going on for many hours and I think the Democrats in particular are trying to, you know, get some real answers and get to the bottom of things. And, you know, maybe it's less about political theater than it might appear, but in terms of thoroughness, if you really wanted to, and I think maybe Hillary Clinton said something like this yesterday.
- [07:15]
B
Right.
- [07:15]
E
If they really wanted to be thorough, I don't think they would be starting with someone like Hillary Clinton who never appears in these files, who doesn't even know Jeffrey Epstein. And so you would really be looking through, like, who are the repeat players, who are the ones we're seeing over and over again, who are the ones referenced by other people? And let's talk to them. And so I feel like this is, this has not been undertaken necessarily with a real goal of getting the most fulsome. And maybe I'm just the understatement in the world, maybe the most fulsome sort of record of what happened from the best possible witnesses of people in a position that should, knew, potentially or should have known or may have had some inkling of what Jeffrey Epstein was doing.
- [08:02]
B
Ben, let me show you sort of the Howard Lutnick of all of this. Lutnick, Donald Trump's Commerce Secretary, who, under no outward looking pressure, went on a podcast and lied this year as Donald Trump's current Secretary of Commerce, and then has had to, in more recent weeks or after the files were released, go back before Congress and clean up his lie with an extraordinary statement. Let me show you both those, and let's focus in on what today's hearing means for him.
- [08:39]
F
So I was never in the room with him socially for business or even philanthropy. If that guy was there, I wasn't going because he's gross. I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. I had another couple, they were there as well with their children. And we had lunch on the island, that is true, for an hour. And we left with all of my children, with my nannies and my wife all together. We were on family vacation. We were not apart to suggest there was anything untoward about that in 2012. I don't recall why we did it.
- [09:30]
B
First of all, it was not like crossing the Delaware. I don't know what he means when he says, you know, we went across. And then just this statement, we went, that is true. And we left with all my children, with my nannies and my wife. Like the consciousness of exposure, of risk or of, I don't know, kidnapping or of leaving behind. Again, I want to quote him accurately quote all my children and my nannies and my wife is so stunning. What do you hear when you hear the lie that Lutnick in the subsequent Clint sort of fesses up to. And then the statement that while he was crossing the Caribbean in a yacht, they stopped there for lunch. Maybe the chef is on a bathroom break. I mean, it's a ludicrous state of the story of Lutnick and Epstein.
- [10:19]
G
I think the lying is one of the most remarkable aspects, and it's something I haven't really understood. I mean, I'm not a psychologist. I'm a reporter. I'm a person who is perhaps scrupulously honest and to a fault at times. But, but, but I don't understand it, especially, you know, why you would say this when you know that this, that there is material that could come out that would directly undercut what you said. I just don't understand it. And I think, you know, it's interesting when you think about Howard Lutnick and the issues he's facing. No One has accused him of doing anything wrong in connection with Jeffrey Epstein. So why he would lie about this when, when there was, you know, evidence that could come out to do it, I just don't understand. And I think it's fair to bring in questions about the president as well on this. On this matter I would refer back to, you know, reporting from a few weeks ago that Donald Trump had in 2006 called the Palm Bees police chief around the time of Jeffrey Epstein's initial arrest saying, you know, hey, I'm glad you got the guy. Everyone knew what this guy was up to. And hey, Ghislaine Maxwell, she's evil, you know, and has since subsequently for years denied that he had never ever had any idea that they had done anything wrong, that Epstein had done anything wrong. I mean, the lying is to me what's really interesting here because no one's accused Howard Lutnick, no one has accused Donald Trump, no one has accused, let's be clear, Bill Clinton of any wrongdoing association with Jeffrey Epstein. But when you start lying publicly about what you knew, it really raises all sorts of questions and you don't have a lot of credibility on the issue.
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B
Let me just put the picture up one more time. This is Howard Letnick, I guess in the blue shirt, Jeffrey Epstein, there in the white. Interesting. I want to turn to your reporting, which I think tells one of the most harrowing pieces of the story and the story that has the most resonant echo to the story that the victims themselves tell about Jeffrey Epstein as a master manipulator. Let me read from your reporting this week. Michael Menshel, former chief of the Criminal division in Miami, left the Miami U.S. attorney's office in August 2016, 2007, one month before Jeffrey Epstein's non prosecution deal was completed and was not involved in the final negotiations. Still, documents show that while Menshel had insisted on a minimum two year sentence and a felony conviction, he also proposed one of the key provisions of the plea deal, that it was to be done in state court in Palm beach county instead of in federal court. Mental later formed a promising business and social relationship with Jeffrey Epstein that began right after Epstein finished his sentence in Palm Beach. Quote, Jeffrey, I very much enjoyed our talk the other night. I look forward to the possibility of working together. But regardless, let's keep in touch. Best Mat Menshel wrote in October 2010, three months after Jeffrey Epstein finished his sentence. In a written statement, his lawyer Erica Wolf adds, quote, there was nothing inappropriate about any of Mr. Menshel's communications or conduct. Just talk about how rare this is for federal prosecutors to become friends and trade emails and say, quote, I look forward to the possibility of working together with a convicted child sex criminal.
- [13:33]
G
I mean, it is remarkable. And I think it's important to contrast the relationship that Matthew Mitchell tried to cultivate with Jeffrey Epstein with, with some of his contemporaries from the U.S. attorney's office in Southern District of Florida. Now, Jeffrey Epstein wanted to meet with Alex Acosta, the former U.S. attorney, the guy who had ultimately kind of approved the deal that he got with the federal government. Acosta would refuse to do it. Jeffrey Sloman, who was the number two under Alex Acosta, and then would later ultimately be the acting U.S. attorney in Southern District of Florida. You know, we see numerous emails in which Epstein is making overtures through Matthew Menshell to try to arrange a meeting with Jeffrey Sloman. Jeffrey Sloman said, absolutely, I won't meet with the guy. So these guys said, this is not someone we would meet with. This is not someone we want to do business with. And of course, with Matthew Mitchell. I mean, they, you know, the emails, the records show that they were in correspondence for years and that know, Matthew Mitchell saw Jeffrey Epstein as someone who was a, you know, potentially could be a promising business opportunity in terms of both the business he himself could bring and in terms of the relationships and connections that he could make for other potential clients of Jess Staley, for example, a former top banker at JP Morgan who then went on to. To run Barclays Bank. So, so I think that's an important contrast because, yes, certainly some federal prosecutors will go on to defend people that maybe they've. They've investigated in happens. It's not like it's never happened, but certainly there were other people in his office at the same time who said, that is a line we will not cross. Forget about going into business. We don't even want to meet with the guy. We don't even want to sit down with the guy. And I think that's a really, really important contrast because it's not like you can say, well, everyone did it. Certainly there were other prosecutors at the time who said, that is a line we will not cross. And I think to me, that's the important distinction to draw here. And to be clear, Matthew Mitchell is not the only person. I mean, there are plenty of people who should have known better who continued to correspond with Epstein and in some cases even do business with Epstein who
- [15:37]
B
should not have been Mary McCord. What would you have done if anyone that worked for you in the National Security Division at the Department of Justice had befriended a convicted child sex trafficker.
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E
Yeah, I'm sitting here jumping out of my seat because even before in the National Security division, I was 20 years in a U.S. attorney's office and I actually prosecuted sex crimes. And there's a big difference. I would say. Well, first of all, I've never had a relationship with somebody I prosecuted. I did have a person who I prosecuted for selling drugs who came up to me several years later when I happened to see him and he wanted to tell me how he had gotten his life together and he's gotten his, you know, GED and he was gainfully employed and I was really proud of him and I was glad he had turned his life around. That's a different situation than what we're talking about right now. And I would say there's also certainly in the white collar area, I can see how, you know, crimes that are not violent crimes are things where you could see interactions between federal prosecutors, maybe when they go into private practice after being a prosecutor, encountering some of people who maybe, I mean, think about people like Martha Stewart, right, Who, who did was prosecuted for white collar crimes. But this was a sex offense and it was a sex offense with a minor. Right, right. That is for, for most prosecutors, that's just a line. That is not the person you do business with afterwards. That's not the person you socialize with because, you know, just because they happen to have connections and money. Because what that's in that violent crime, that coercive crime that, you know, that that area of crime, that just looks a whole lot different. So it's really startling to me to see those types of messages from the prosecutor, not to mention the prosecutor on the case.
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B
Mary, let me ask you a follow up question. The prosecutor on the case, we've gotten to know a lot of federal prosecutors and I can't get my brain, as you're saying, from A to Z, but also former President Obama's White House counsel who went on to work at Goldman Sachs with these chummy emails, also perhaps pursuing some sort of business relationship. Brad Karp, who lost his post atop Paul Weiss, not over capitulating to Donald Trump, that seemed to be a good thing inside that firm, but over appearing in the Epstein files. What is it about a criminal's manipulative skills as described by the victims, that makes them so good at manipulating the people that we view as sort of high up in a professional or civic society? Federal prosecutors, senior lawyers, in a very popular President's White House, senior executives at law firms and banks.
- [18:26]
E
Yeah, you know, there are people who have an incredible skill of sort of grooming others to want to be around them. And I use the term grooming, which is usually associated with things like pedophilia, but I think it translates here, right? I mean he obviously was able to groom young girls and, and, and to a certain extent groomed other people to want to be part of his club. And you know, Ezra Klein from the New York Times has an incredible podcast, his spheres of influence among the elite around the world, which is really striking in how many people gravitated toward this person. And he had a skill that most of us don't have. And I guess the one thing I'd say that also I think differentiates the federal prosecutor from potentially some of these other people, at least people who associated with him pre2019, you know, when he was, you know, jailed and charged with the much more massive, you know, ring of, of, of pedophilia is that some of the people who knew about the 2008, 2009 deal as, you know, soliciting prostitution from a minor might not have known any more of the details around that. That kind of got washed away with that sweetheart plea deal. And I'm not saying it's right or good, but like if they think this person has paid their penalty, paid their price, you know, now they're back and they're. And they're free to engage in society again. And I think we should all treat people who have paid their debt to society and give them that second chance. I could see them looking differently at that if they don't know anything about how deep it went. Right. If we're.
- [20:05]
B
Let me, let me just challenge that. Let me just challenge that though. If you, I mean this is not like pre Internet, right? If you, if you're invited to dinner or someone fancy wants you to meet their fancy friend Jeffrey Epstein, and you Google him, the conviction comes up. And if you walk in and you see all these very young girls around, you think maybe it wasn't a one off. He is a convicted child sex criminal. I mean that to me feels like part of the delusion that created these fears of influence.
- [20:33]
E
I agree with you. And so I think it's very like, you know, what is the relationship with the. Between different people and were they at events like that? Because then that, you know, your red flags, your spidey sense should very much go be going off. You have this prior conviction. What are all these young girls doing here? And I don't know the specific situation of all the different people he encountered. But if you're in a party at his house with young girls or if you're on his island, those even without the prior conviction, I think at some point have got to make you suspicious. So I wish, I mean, this is he's a fascinating case in terms of, you know, the psychology of this and why people wanted to be around him. And it's really shock. It's been shocking to me to see some of the people, including President Obama's former White House counsel, who I do know a little bit and had had, you know, really great respect for.
- [21:22]
B
So it's amazing. It's amazing. I think we'll be studying this. And, Ben, your reporting adds such a dimension to this that even federal prosecutors were not immune to his manipulation. Really, really important piece of reporting this week. Thank you for joining us today to talk about it. Ben Weider, Mary McCord, thank you. Danny Bensky joins us just after a short break. Also ahead for us, it's never too late. Multiple Republican senators have now come out to demand Trump's Justice Department release all of the files related to Jeffrey Epstein as they are required to do by law. We'll talk to one of their Democratic colleagues, Senator Jackie Rosen, about this change and what it ultimately means for the prospects of accountability. Plus, a billionaire ally to the White House will soon take over another major media company as the White House moves closer and closer to resembling the autocratic regimes of Hungary and Russia. And to that point, we'll break down some new data on why more and more Americans are choosing to leave America. All those stories and much more when DEADLINE WHITEHOUSE continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
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B
Joining our coverage, Danny Bensky, someone who's become a familiar face to all of our viewers and an Epstein survivor who we've been lucky enough to get to know as she bravely tells her story and advocates for accountability and transparency from our government. So it's been a week. It's been a week. State of the Union feels like it was 11 years ago. It was Tuesday night. How are you doing?
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D
Okay. Yeah, I think I've slept a total of maybe 15 hours through the entire week. So, you know, running on adrenaline, but amazing to see the survivor sisters and feel that energy and just a wild ride. I say that all the time. I say that it's like the never ending roller coaster. But truly, the day of the State of the Union was something that I can't begin to explain because we started the day with the pressers and just running from one thing to the next thing to the next thing. And I actually had such a beautiful moment of real humanity with. There was another guest of Schumer's that was there, Senator Schumer's, and she had lost. Well, her son was going for a hearing for asylum and ICE had taken her son and they couldn't find him for quite a bit. And so I was listening to her story and I'm there, of course, talking about the files, and she handed me this bracelet and it says karma on it. And she didn't speak much English, but her. Yeah, so she put the. You know, they handed me the bracelet, her and her interpreter. And it was just such a moment of like, person to person. Right. And I think that that's what we miss a lot of the time in talking about these files and talking about the state of where we are right now. Just those personal interactions about how we can come together as community and impact each other. And I want to say that in that same vein, when I went to the actual State of the Union, I walked out feeling like, wow, we are so divided as a nation. And that was really hard and sad to watch, that it felt like the chasm is so great. And it felt like we're living in two separate Americas.
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B
What made you feel that way?
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D
I think there's an energy, you know, it's like for survivors. We knew we wanted to hear something about the files, anything about the files, and instead there was no acknowledgement whatsoever from Trump at all. And I just felt like there were things that should have really been looked at. I think as far as what was factual and what was not, that he was saying. And again, these are not my topics. My topic is the Epstein world and the Epstein saga. But there were so many things that were like, are we sure about that? Do we feel like that might be true?
- [26:24]
B
But let me just say this about, because I hear this, the country's so divided, like, on what, like 80% of the country would like to see the Epstein files released. 65% of the country disapproves of the job Donald Trump is doing. He's upside down on immigration, economy, tariffs and inflation, the things he ran on. And what, I mean, in some weird ways, you know, the karma has come around and you guys have told a story that is one of the only bipartisan current pushes in Congress with Massie pushing as hard as the Democrats.
- [26:56]
D
Yeah. And I think that that's what is unique about our journey, and that's what been trying to get across for so long, is that it is not partisan. These are human stories. But in those rooms and in those spaces, sometimes there's like a what's your agenda? And it's like, no, we've been honest from the very beginning about we have no political agenda in this. And so I just think it was. It's hard to be in political spaces with a story that's so deeply personal. And we're.
- [27:22]
B
Does it feel like they want to make it political to dismiss you as one side or the other? Or is it like the age old people don't believe women?
- [27:30]
D
I think a little bit of both. I think totally. A little bit of both. I think this idea of, you know, Trump started labeling us as a Democratic hoax. Right. And there are folks in our, you know, circle that are not Democrats at all.
- [27:43]
B
Clearly.
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D
Yeah. And so it is one of those things where I think the labeling of the Democratic anything has really put us into the hot seat there. Yeah. But I do think there is like the belief of women. I mean, that's. The system's failing. From 1996 all the way through the Acosta plea deal through this whole story is littered with not believing women ever.
- [28:04]
B
I just had a conversation with our first Guest about this fantastic new Miami Herald reporting about all of the law enforcement types that he manipulated. And I quoted you, and I said, you know, what Danny describes is just this master manipulator. And what's, I guess, sort of amazing is to see that male federal prosecutors and bankers and lawyers were not immune from that manipulator. And I wonder what you make of what's coming out in the files of all of the people that he succeeded at manipulating. And why you think that is.
- [28:39]
D
He's like the chess player with humans, with human lives. Right. I think he just got great joy out of seeing how far he could push people into what he wanted them to do. I'm not sure, you know, I do. I look at, like, the fact that he was able to manipulate border patrol still. Like, that's something that sat with me for some time now. I'm not. I don't know what he would make of all of it, to be honest.
- [29:05]
B
When you hear people say, well, you know, it happened after 08, but before 19, maybe, maybe he didn't know. I also quoted you, and I said, anyone that opened their eyes and saw that there were all these very young women around and Googled and saw the 08 conviction could put two and two together.
- [29:20]
D
Yeah. Well, and I think that, you know, with Clinton's testimony today, you know, he had said there nothing to see. I didn't see anything. I wasn't there. And I don't know if he was. Was complicit in anything. You know, nobody's saying that he was, but I think he definitely was around for quite a great deal. And I think that he needs to talk about exactly what he saw. I know, you know, it's been known for a while that he was on a trip to Africa with Epstein and girls, and, like, you can't tell me that you were there for a full week and didn't see anything at all. So just making sure that we're really getting to the core of it for everybody. And I do think that it's important that they're questioning the right people. Like, I don't know why Hillary Clinton was. Was questioned when Leslie Groff, who was literally the assistant and the associate who would schedule me regularly, Like, I would call her, she would put my name into, you know, a pad, and, like, what do you think that you're scheduling me for? So that would have been a far more interesting testimony to me than listening to Hillary Clinton, who I'm sure was not, you know, said she never met him. Yeah.
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B
All right. We're going to ask you to stick around a little bit longer. After the break, Danny Ned will be joined by Democratic Senator who is putting the pressure on Pam Bondi. It's also coming from some Republicans now, too, which is interesting. In the second Trump era, the pressure is to release everything in the Epstein files with Donald Trump's name on it. We'll talk about that next.
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C
21 Donald Trump only ran out in front of the parade at the end to say that he supported the legislation we passed because he knew it was overwhelmingly popular in the country and in Congress. But they've been doing everything that they can to sabotage and sandbag us ever since. And so we're going to to need to find some ways to compel them to comply with the law, which required essentially 100% production of the entire file.
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B
So the news flash here is that it's not just Democrats who seem to be tiring of the sabotage and sandbacking, as Congressman Raskin said from the Trump administration When it comes to the slow release of the Epstein files, the Trump administration is now facing criticism from some of Donald Trump's staunchest allies on Capitol Hill after reporting revealed that DOJ withheld the release of Files with allegations against Donald Trump in them. According to the Hill, Republican Senator John Kennedy told reporters this, quote, this is not going away until there's full disclosure. And the American people want to know, and they're entitled to know who, if anyone else, did Epstein traffic these women to and why weren't they prosecuted and why, end quote. When asked specifically about the missing files that mention Donald Trump's name, Republican Senator Chuck Grassley said this. Quote, I think when we pass a law that says that all documents need to be put out, it seems to me all documents need to be put out, end quote. Again, that's news because those were Republicans joining us at the table, Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen of Nevada. Danny, still with me. It's just important to remind people how difficult it is for Republicans to say that's up and that's down if Trump tells them to say the opposite.
- [33:54]
I
Well, first of all, thank you for having me and thank you for your bravery in standing up, giving what's happened to you, not giving everyone a voice, even to those who can't speak for themselves or have suffered in this way. So thank you. But I want to talk about Senator Grassley, because if at 90 some years old you can't stand up and stand up for people who were victims of sexual abuse as children, then when can you stand up? If at 90, I think he's 93, when is it time to stand up? What's he worried about?
- [34:31]
B
Well, also, I mean, Grassley's an interesting example because we've covered some of his town hall meetings and his constituents have been his constituents so long, they say, hey, Chuck, you know, like he's got, he's sort of immune from whatever political waves Donald Trump puts in motion. He has a connection, a relationship with his voters that you think he'd be the kind of Republican, if any Republicans do the right thing.
- [34:53]
I
That's what I mean. When you're in your 90s, close to living almost a century, he knows right from wrong. He knows what's up versus down and that he's still afraid of Donald Trump or to stand up to protect women, children who are victims of the most heinous and and horrible abuse that I can. There's no words for what people did and what they did in groups. It wasn't just one person. Groups of people together shared in all of this. And if Chuck Grassley, he should be leading everyone in this with his wealth of knowledge and experience, he shouldn't be. He's not afraid for winning his next election, that's for sure. But Will his grandkids be proud of him for what he stands for?
- [35:39]
B
Stands up for when you see the breaks in the Republican coalition. I mean the MAGA podcasters have run for the hills. Joe Rogan and Andrew Schultz and other prominent MAGA adjacent and MAGA podcasters have attacked Trump and the Republicans. And you look at the horrific poll numbers for Republicans heading into the midterms. Do you think there will be a dam breaking moment for Republicans?
- [36:02]
I
You know, I hope so. I just can't imagine it hasn't already. He gotten here every dump of the files. And we know, I think just today wasn't there was a file with Howard Lutnick in it picture. And then they take it away. Nothing dies on the Internet. None of this. Do they think just because they redact some of the names. Who sends a video? Did you enjoy that torture video? Who sends an email like that? Unless you're making the next Halloween thriller movie perhaps. And so, and so I just can't believe that they won't together stand up in this case. Do none of them have daughters, granddaughters? They all have wives, sisters. It boggles the mind that they continue not just on this but on so many other things. We see one of the congressmen and a staffer commit suicide and we see some of the ways that she was harassed by him. And they say, well, we need the vote. What do you mean you need the vote? What's wrong with you? So I don't know what the dam breaking moment is, but I sure hope it comes sooner than later because this is the kind of thing that just can't be excused. And we need to bring, I don't want to say, I guess justice. I don't know if you bring closure, but you need to be seen and you need to be heard and you need to be valued. And for women who are continuing to be trafficked or victims of any kind of abuse or crime like that, they need to be, they need to know that they matter. And you standing up. Thank you. It lets people, I think it gives them the strength to know that their lives matter for something even when others are abusing them.
- [37:50]
D
Thank you for that something that you said. You know, we've been taking meetings with a lot of Republicans and we actually spoke with Grassley's office a bit and we've been talking to Senator Ernst's office offices and you know, we'll share our stories. There will be like four or five survivors in a zoom session and we will just try to connect the dots because it is about humanity for us so much. I mean, it's our stories, right? And so a lot of the time we'll. We'll talk to people and just share and say, like, imagine if it was your mother, your daughter, your. Like, wouldn't she want to get to
- [38:26]
I
the bottom, send to Ernst a victim of abuse herself.
- [38:28]
D
Exactly.
- [38:29]
B
What do they say?
- [38:31]
D
Mixed responses. You know, Grass's office was lovely, and we usually have beautiful conversations at Kat Kamek's office. Recently we went the day before we were there for Bondi's hearing, and we did the press conference that was run by the DWC in the morning, and we actually went to ask for bipartisan support and said, if you. You're the head of the Republican Women's Caucus, please, if you have anybody or if you could stand with us, it would mean a lot. Because we do. We need to show that this is not partisan. And we get a lot of like, yes, we're with you. You guys have been through such atrocity. Like, you know, and then we get there that day and it's. Nancy Mace is the only Republican who comes out for us. So it's a, like, that's why seeing that from Grassley was actually made me feel a little bit better because, you know, we are spending weeks of time on these calls, talking to as many people as we can, sharing our stories. So just to see a little bit of a push from him is really exc.
- [39:26]
B
I'm going to ask both of you to stay. This has also been a week of extraordinary journalism on this story. New revelations about missing files that include allegations about Donald Trump. So we'll. We'll recap all of the developments in terms of what we understand to have happened on the other side of a very short break. Don't go anywhere.
- [39:50]
I
Why hasn't President Trump, you know, just say, hey, listen, offered himself to say, I'm going to testify, I'm going to clear my name, not say that us, the victims, have exonerated him. Because last night I had, you know, rep on a Paulina Luna say that the victims have exonerated him. I have not yet talked to the doj. You think the Trump administration has reached out to myself? I can't speak for my survivor sisters, but I'm pretty close with them. I'm pretty sure it's. They would have shared that with me.
- [40:25]
B
That was Marina yesterday. Your thoughts?
- [40:27]
D
Yeah, I mean, this idea that he was exonerated is so inaccurate. We're in touch with quite a few survivors and nobody has been talked to to even say the word exonerated. Anybody. And also we know that there is evidence out there that really needs to be investigated. It's never gone through a process. So how could he be exonerated? It's, it's just, it's a farce and it needs to be corrected.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah. I mean, one of the things we learned this week in reporting in NPR and then Ms. Now and the New York Times and other places was about these missing depositions from a woman who was a child at the time and alleged a sexual assault followed by a physical assault from Donald Trump. At the time, she was 13 or 14 years old. That is still coming to light. At the same time that there are some whispers or musings that Ghislaine Maxwell, who's been moved from medium security to low security prison, is lobbying for clemency.
- [41:22]
I
Well, I can tell you that I have a resolution out there that will be the sense of the Senate that Ghislaine Maxwell should not receive a pardon or clemency. I'm going to bring that to the floor for unanimous consent next week. We'll see how the floor time is. We're going to try to do it as soon as we can. There'll be the sense of the Senate. Let's see who comes and blocks that any senator can block. But the sense of the Senate should be that this woman should not be provided a pardon or clemency in any case, because she was there doing all of this. And about the missing files, the saddest thing for me in that oversight hearing was that the victims. You're all there. I'm here to tell my story. She wouldn't even turn around and look at Ms. She looked down. Pam Bondi. Then she gets up. But what about the, what about the Dow? Well, first of all, nobody pays their bills based on the Dow. They pay their bills based on the paycheck. But what about the Dow? She didn't. It was shameful, and I think she was ashamed. Even the way she looked down as you stood there so bravely. I'm so proud of you. And we don't want Ghislaine Maxwell to have any clemency, any pardon or any puppies. Whatever she gets in prison, she needs to stay there. She needs to. As far as I'm concerned, she can rot in hell. But nothing is nothing in no world should she get any pardon.
- [42:49]
B
Quick last word.
- [42:50]
D
Yeah. I mean, I think survivors would sleep better at night knowing that that's the case. That's the one piece of justice that we've seen in this country. We're seeing the accountability everywhere else. The UN Is taking this seriously, right? Everywhere else in the world, they're saying this is serious. And here, here she's still playing with her puppies, right? So like just to know that she is in prison, that is it. There is no clemency. I think we would all just get a little bit more of a breath at night.
- [43:12]
B
And let me just explain the puppies. It was the reporting that we covered here. We actually had a program director on convicted child sex predators are not supposed to be allowed to participate in a foster puppy training program at the minimum security prison she's in. We understand that she's working around that. We'll stay on top of that part of the story, too. Senator, thank you for being here. Danny, thank you as always for being here. One more break. We'll be right back. Where in the world is Donald Trump? Well, he's in Texas this afternoon ahead of a major Senate primary election taking place Tuesday which could drastically change the outlook for both parties ahead of the 2026 midterms. For Republicans, it is a three way race which features the current sitting US Senator John Cornyn facing a primary challenge from Attorney General Ken Paxton and Congressman Wesley Hunt, which has turned very ugly almost from the start as they all vie for the endorsement of Donald Trump. Incredibly, in ruby red Texas, that is not the race driving up turnout and excitement though. It is the Democratic primary contest between Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett and State Representative James Talarico, which has seen early voting numbers that have doubled the past two election cycles in the state. And in what may be her most significant endorsement since leaving office, former Vice President Kamala Harris today endorsed Jasmine Crockett, who was her co chair of the 2024 presidential campaign. Before we take a break, we want to remind you we'll have full coverage of that Texas primary right here on Ms. Now, Tuesday night, the first big results to come in of the all new important 2026 midterm season. We're excited about it. We hope you are, too. One more break. We'll be right back.
- [44:56]
C
Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster? I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires. I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.
- [45:05]
F
This is very strange, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com.