“What the Trump administration started, the people of Minneapolis have finished”

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What the Trump Administration Started, the People of Minneapolis Have Finished"

Deadline: White House with Nicolle Wallace | February 12, 2026

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Overview

This powerful and urgent episode dissects the Trump administration’s deployment and sudden retreat of federal agents from Minneapolis, the city’s fierce resistance, and the national backlash sparked by the federal presence. Nicolle Wallace leads a discussion with Minnesota State Senator Erin Mayquaid, former DHS Chief of Staff Miles Taylor, and analyst John Heilemann. The panel explores how local defiance and nonviolent civic engagement changed the story, examines the administration’s motives, and grapples with broader implications for U.S. democracy, the rule of law, and the 2026 elections. The conversation also touches on public reaction to ongoing scandals—including the administration’s handling of the Epstein files—reflecting a portrait of government overreach, accountability, and community resilience.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Federal Withdrawal from Minneapolis: Announcement and Reactions

• Chris Hayes opens the discussion ([01:01]) by narrating the Trump administration’s abrupt announcement that the surge of federal agents in Minneapolis is ending after two months of violence and civilian deaths. The move is greeted with skepticism by local authorities.
  • Notable Quote:
    “As with anything Donald Trump or his administration says, the news of a drawdown is being taken with a grain of salt by many in Minneapolis. The president of the City Council had this to say: ‘I will believe it when I see it.’” — Chris Hayes ([01:40])
  • Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry: “They thought they could break us. But a love for our neighbors and a resolve to endure can outlast an occupation.” ([02:03])
  • MN Governor Tim Walz expresses “cautious optimism” but stresses the community’s fortitude ([02:27]).

2. Life Under Federal Occupation: On-the-Ground Reality

• Sen. Erin Mayquaid describes everyday horrors, from ICE targeting children at bus stops, schools, and daycares to the community’s organized resistance ([05:30]).
  • Notable Quote:
    “ICE idle outside of apartment buildings. They go onto school property. They drive around recklessly...They go into entire restaurants and try to detain workers, harass people who are just driving their kid to swim lessons. It is indescribable how present they are in every community and how dangerously they act.” — Erin Mayquaid ([06:33])
  • The Senator underscores ongoing trauma and uncertainty, emphasizing true relief will only come when all agents are gone.
  • The surge has led to 3,000 federal agents in the state—more than the 10 largest MN police forces combined ([09:34]).

3. Minneapolis as a Model of Resistance and Civic Strength

• Erin Mayquaid and the panel reflect on why Minneapolis became the epicenter of defiance:
  • High levels of civic engagement, diversity, and community support were critical ([09:22]).
  • “We are what democracy looks like in action...We actually do love our neighbors.” — Erin Mayquaid ([09:34])
• John Heilemann observes, “The leaders in Minneapolis and in Minnesota have made this really clear: nonviolence is crucial. They are trying to provoke violent responses in these places. If you give them violence, that will only escalate things...” ([22:41])

4. Lessons for the Country and the 2026 Election

• Miles Taylor and John Heilemann argue Trump uses ICE, rather than the military, to evade constitutional checks and enforce his deportation and political aims ([11:03]; [13:05]).
  • Taylor: “We can't be complacent...Mark my words. He will try to foment the circumstances for [the Insurrection Act] to play better for him...they’re just stepping back from one state where it didn’t go well.” ([11:03])
• The panel repeatedly connects the crackdown to Trump’s broader 2026 campaign and warnings about the administration's intention to subvert free and fair elections ([15:54]).
  • Notable Quote:
    “They are not acting like people who want to win elections. They're acting like people who have a plan to not have free and fair elections.” — Erin Mayquaid ([15:54])
• The experience in Minnesota is presented as a “test case” for mass deportation and political intimidation ([15:54]).

5. Repair and Accountability: Community Demands After the Occupation

• Erin Mayquaid calls for full federal withdrawal, a return of missing neighbors (including “3,000...that have been disappeared”), accountability for abuses, restoration of economic and educational stability, and a recognition that “This has been like a natural disaster, but it was created by Trump and Republicans.” ([25:30])
• Miles Taylor offers a metaphor of “optimistic fatalism”: destruction opens a path for serious civic rebuilding ([27:47]).
  • Notable Quote:
    “Nature destroys everything it creates, but it also creates from everything it destroys...Minnesota nice has become something like Minnesota no nonsense. Or maybe...Minnesota no surrender.” — Miles Taylor ([27:47])

6. The Human Cost: Trauma, Missing Persons, and Societal Devastation

• The surge has led to thousands terrorized, detained, deported—including U.S. citizens—and entire communities traumatized ([25:30]).
• Children in some districts are too afraid to go to school; small businesses are failing due to persistent fear and loss of customers ([25:30]).
• Calls for sweeping reforms, particularly of DHS, are made to prevent recurrence ([27:47]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Standing with our neighbors is deeply American.” — Mayor Jacob Fry ([02:07])
• “What is happening in Minnesota right now with federal agents is the armed version of what the Trump administration has been doing since day one, which is putting us under siege.” — Erin Mayquaid ([07:54])
• “Yes, the people of Minnesota put the Trump administration back on its heels, but Donald Trump will not give this up...They are not revising the underlying policy here—they’re just stepping back from one state where it didn’t go well.” — Miles Taylor ([11:03])
• “The end game, I think, is not just an end game that has to do with the deportation agenda. I think the end game has to do with the elections in November.” — John Heilemann ([15:47])
• “There are 3,000 of our neighbors that are missing, that have been disappeared, that have been sent to concentration camps in other states. We want them back. We want the children back. We want our neighbors back. And then we need accountability...” — Erin Mayquaid ([25:30])
• “Minneapolis has taught the country: if you stand up to [Trump] and your cause is righteous and you stand up in the right way, he will back down.” — John Heilemann ([22:41])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:01–06:13] — Overview of federal drawdown, local reactions, and lived reality in Minneapolis.
• [09:22–10:35] — Why Minneapolis resisted so uniquely; civic culture and organizing.
• [11:03–13:05] — National implications, administration’s playbook, and danger of complacency.
• [15:47–17:03] — Linking the crackdown to 2026 elections and broader anti-democratic strategy.
• [25:30–27:36] — Community resilience, accountability demands, and vision for repair.
• [27:47–28:56] — “Optimistic fatalism” and the need for reforms and civic rebuilding.

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone is urgent, defiant, and compassionate, reflecting both the pain and the moral clarity of communities under siege. The speakers emphasize the necessity of nonviolent resistance, local organization, and national solidarity in the face of autocratic overreach. The occupation of Minneapolis is framed as a lesson for the nation: the power of people to force policy reversals even from a hostile administration, and the critical need for vigilance as the 2026 elections approach.

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In Context: Broader National Themes

• The episode repeatedly ties events in Minneapolis to Trump’s overarching strategies: escalating government overreach, inflaming divisions for political theater, undermining elections, and refusing transparency (e.g., the Epstein files).
• Civic engagement at the grassroots, not elected officials alone, is described as the main bulwark against democratic backsliding.
• The panel foresees further attempts to use federal power for political ends, urging communities and states to prepare for legal and civic battles.

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands as both a chronicle and a call: it records how the people of Minneapolis changed the narrative through solidarity and nonviolence, and it warns that the struggle for democracy, decency, and justice is far from over. The panel’s insights connect the immediate crisis to larger national challenges, making it essential listening for anyone concerned about the future of American democracy.

Transcript

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[Chris Hayes]

Hi everyone, it's 4 o' clock in New York with Donald Trump and his administration started, the people of Minneapolis have finished. Donald Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, announcing today that the deployment of thousands of federal agents in Minneapolis is coming to an end. That announcement comes after more than two months in which Minneapolis and the entire country witnessed scenes of brutality by federal agents on the streets of an American city and including the shootings of three people, including the killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Alex Preddy. American people also witnessed a city, an American city rising up in protest, inspiring a nationwide outcry and backlash to Donald Trump bigger than anything else he has endured in his second term as president. As with anything Donald Trump or his administration says, the news of a drawdown is being taken with a grain of salt by many in Minneapolis. The president of the Minneapolis City Council had this to say, quote, I will believe it when I see it, end quote. But other officials are sounding a little more optimistic that the brutal federal presence may actually be coming to an end. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry said this in a statement, quote, they thought they could break us. But a love for our neighbors and a resolve to endure can outlast an occupation. These patriots of Minneapolis are showing that it's not just about resistance. Standing with our neighbors is deeply American. And here's Minnesota's Governor, Tim Walz.

[John Heilman]

Minnesotans never wavered, and for that I will be forever grateful. I think it's probably safe to say the rest of the country will be forever grateful because they showed what it means to stand up for what's right, to stand up for the true principles of this country, to stand with the Constitution and to stand with human decency. And so I want to note that the announcement today by Mr. Holman, we are cautiously optimistic, as we've said, and that this surge of untrained, aggressive federal agents are going to leave Minnesota.

[Chris Hayes]

As the governor noted there, the acts of bravery by the people of Minneapolis, including the tens of thousands of people who went out to protest day after day in bitter cold temperatures, have inspired a nationwide movement. Signs of it are everywhere in recent weeks.

[Miles Taylor]

We have a Constitution and it allows us to freedom of the press and freedom of speech, protects us from unreasonable searches and seizures and makes it that we have to, you know, have probable cause to be pulled over. And what's happening in Minnesota is wrong.

[John Heilman]

There should be an appeal to our better angels to look after one another and to recognize what's happening. We are, we're being divided. I'm sitting here talking about movies while.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, while.

[Miles Taylor]

While an illegal army is.

[John Heilman]

Being mounted against US Citizens.

[Chris Hayes]

The backlash shows up in polls as well. A new survey by the Associated Press shows that sizable majorities of the American people think Donald Trump has gone too far, that he's overreached. 62% of all Americans think he has gone too far by sending federal agents into American cities. Just 36% approve of the way that Donald Trump is doing his job. Overall, signs of a potential retreat by Donald Trump in the face of massive national backlash that started with the people of Minneapolis is where we start today. Minnesota State Senator Erin Maequaid is here. She is today in Washington, D.C. with more than 50 Minnesotans demanding no additional funding for ICE or CBP. Also joining us, former DHS Chief of Staff during Donald Trump's first term as president. Miles Taylor's here and Puck News senior political columnist, national affairs analyst John Heilman is here. Madam Senator, I start with you first. Your reaction to news, the surge ending, which of course we should say doesn't mean that all ICE agents and all ICE activity ceases, but that the surge of federal agents, at least in terms of what they're saying, is over.

[Erin Mayquaid]

Yeah, I think it's important to say that Minnesotans will feel relief when we see conditions on the ground change. The last time Tom Homan announced a drawdown in Apple Valley, where I live and I serve in the suburbs, we saw an intentional targeting of children. It was at daycares, it was at schools, it was at bus stops. And so for a lot of us hearing this today, we're worried that another announcement of a drawdown. Where are they going to go? What are they going to do until they leave, if they leave. So I think cautiously optimistic might be too much. I think believe it when I see it is closer to what a lot of Minnesotans are feeling. But we will stand in the gap forever for our neighbors. And hopefully today is the day that we can say this started to end.

[Chris Hayes]

Senator, can you tell us what it is like? Because I feel like when we were all there, when all the news organizations were there, we had eyes on the ground. We had lots of crews on all the street corners. And it is not lost on me that a lot of that activity is ongoing. So can you just tell us what it's like right now?

[Erin Mayquaid]

Yeah. It's almost indescribable what is happening on the ground, because it looks different in every part of the state. There are tens of thousands of Minnesotans. Yes. Out constitutionally observing. There's even more providing rides, hiding families, delivering food, buying groceries, taking to medical appointments. But what really happens is you have ice. They idle outside of apartment buildings. They idle outside of bus stops. They go onto school property. They drive around recklessly through neighborhoods. They go into entire restaurants and try to detain workers, harass people who are just driving their kid to swim lessons. It is indescribable, however present they are in our state, in every community, and how dangerously they act. And you could just be going about your daily life and encounter them. And that has not changed today, I can tell you that is still happening. I had to leave my phone in another room to do this interview because I'm still getting all the messages of where they are, just in my own community, not in the entire state. So on the ground, it is still very hellish and it is very, very difficult. And we want to make sure that our neighbors stay safe and we will not breathe out until we actually see them leave, because right now they have not left.

[Chris Hayes]

What is their explanation for why they need to be in schools? Preschools, high schools, middle schools?

[Erin Mayquaid]

There is no explanation. There is no reason for it. And if you ask my Republican colleagues in Minnesota, they will say ICE is getting out the worst of the worst. And what we have seen is that they're actually targeting the best of the best. With Renee Goode, Alex Preddy, the untold number of observers that have been detained, harassed, terrorized the school board members, that they've terrorized the principals, that they've terrorized the children that they've taken. There is no excuse. But I do want everyone to know that what is happening in Minnesota right now with federal agents is the armed version of what the Trump administration has been doing since day one, which is putting us under siege. They have frozen federal funding for school, ripped away health care and food stamps, targeted rural hospitals and liheap dollars, targeted higher education. I mean, our childcare funding, it goes on and on. The ICE agents and cbp. That is the armed version of what the Trump administration has been doing all along. And it's just more visible. But it has been a siege since day one.

[Chris Hayes]

What is it about the people of Minneapolis that changed the story? I mean, to your point, it is this multi layered siege that they set out to engage in Los Angeles and Chicago in Minneapolis, but they got to. And I'm not saying that people didn't resist in Los Angeles and Chicago, but people of Minneapolis have handled this in a way that people around the world are talking about and covering.

[Erin Mayquaid]

Yeah, I think there's two parts to this one. I'm a sixth generation Minnesotan, so I will just say I think Minnesota is the best state in the nation and we are very special and unique. We have the highest rates of volunteerism and the highest rates of voting.

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[Erin Mayquaid]

We are a very civically engaged state. We're a very diverse, multicultural, multi generational, inclusive state where we really do love our neighbors. And I think that irks Republicans. I think they don't like that we don't just say we love our neighbors, we actually do love our neighbors. I think it irks them that we are what democracy looks like in action. And so I think that that targeting was part of that. But I also think Minnesota is just such a special place, the way that we actually love and care for one another. And, and this should never go to any other state. Minnesotans want this to end in our state. Yes, but not go anywhere else. And it should be noted that, yes, they targeted Chicago and Illinois and la, Maine a little bit, but what they had in Minnesota were 3,000 federal agents. That was more agents than the 10 largest police departments combined in the state of Minnesota. And so what happened in Minnesota was very, very unique. And that is why you saw that very, very unique response is because of the militarization of our streets, frankly.

[Chris Hayes]

I want to bring in Miles and John Heilman. Miles Taylor, you are sort of our only sort of living witness into what Donald Trump does when he's back on his heels. And this retreat from Minneapolis is one such example. I mean, often, you know, like a bad storm, retreats gather strength and sort of attacks somewhere else. What is your sense of what this retreat means?

[Miles Taylor]

Yeah, and I think that Retreat is maybe even a word that gives people too much comfort. I really think this is a reset, and I want to be optimistic about it. I mean, I think the bravery of the people of Minnesota allowed this to happen. But we cannot be complacent. You remember, Nicole, that famous scene in Star wars when Luke Skywalker's in the Millennium Falcon and he shoots a TIE Fighter, and Han Solo turns to him and he says, great, kid. Don't get cocky. They still have to take out the Death Star. And this is one of those moments. We can't be complacent about what happened here. Yes, the people of Minnesota put the Trump administration back on its heels, but Donald Trump will not give this up. Now, I imagine there's some infighting between people like Stephen Miller and Tom Homan, who have very different views about this, but let's not forget we were on the cusp of the President of the United States invoking the Insurrection Act. It didn't happen because Trump did not like how it was playing on television. Mark my words. He will try to foment the circumstances for it to play better for him. And that's probably what they are doing right now at the White House, looking at what states they could go to next, looking at what circumstances they could create that would create a better optic for the president, and they're gonna go after it again. Remember, just days ago, Trump's immigration chiefs testified before Congress that their mandate from the president was a mass deportation. They are not revising the underlying policy here. They're just stepping back from one state where it didn't go well.

[Chris Hayes]

John Heilman, that didn't happen by accident. I mean, Mayor Fry and Tim Walls and the senator were communicating to their constituents to not take the bait, you know, to not give Donald Trump that theater to sort of produce what he wanted to produce. That was very deliberate, that all the protests were peaceful, even in the wake of these two horrific killings of Renee Goode and Alex Preddy.

[John Heilman]

Yeah. And Nicole. I agree with everything Miles just said a second ago. I don't think that, you know, I think it's absolutely appropriate for people to breathe a sigh of relief, particularly the people in Minneapolis. But around the country, I mean, everybody wants this. Wanted that nightmare to end. And obviously, trust but verify. We'll make sure that. We'll keep watching to make sure that they actually are doing what they say they're going to do. I do think that it's all dress rehearsal. You know, there's been this. This upward movement from. As we go through this count it every time I feel like I talk about this. But from Los Angeles to Washington to Chicago to Minneapolis, there's just been an increase, and importantly an increase in the, in the number of agents, federal agents on the street. But also importantly, a realization. You know, you'll remember back in Los Angeles, we were all freaking out about the fact that, and rightly so, that Donald Trump had deployed some Marines to Los Angeles and that was unconstitutional or illegal violating Posse Comitatus. I think that one of the things that happened over the course of that time was that Trump realized that the military might be just too professional for him to carry out what he wants to get done in these cities, both in terms of the deportation agenda, but also as a dress rehearsal for what might happen at the polls in November. And there was a realization as he went through these various trial runs, these, these dress rehearsals, that ICE was the better agent for him than the US Military. Who knows, somebody who actually is a senior ranking person in the military might stand up at some point and say, sorry, we're not going to do this, President Trump because it violates Posse Comitatus because it's not in keeping with our mission and with our oath to the Constitution. No one in ICE is going to say that Donald Trump has figured out that ICE is the way to go. If you want to exercise these kind of repressive and violent tactics and these kind of intimidating tactics that are all designed to build up people, not in Minneapolis, but around the country watching what happened in Minneapolis. As much as they admire millions of us admire what people were doing on the streets and resistance in Minneapolis, people also are looking at what happened in Minneapolis and saw two execution style murders on the streets of Minneapolis. And there are going to be people around the country who are going to be left with a residue of fear because of what they saw on the part of the government in Minneapolis. And so I think, you know, this just is to amplify Miles point this. None of these things should be taken in isolation. We have to be able to look at them as a continuum, as an escalation. And we have to look at what the end game is. And the end game, I think, is not just an end game that has to do with the deportation agenda. I think the end game has to do with the elections in November.

[Chris Hayes]

Senator, I saw you nodding as the, every time the elections in November came up. Your thoughts?

[Erin Mayquaid]

Yeah, I mean, the first thing I want to say is on New Year's Eve 2025, the Department of Homeland Security sent out a public Statement basically saying they want to achieve 100 million deportations. That is a third of the population in the United States of America. There are not 100 million immigrants in this country. And we have seen in Minnesota that they are targeting black, brown, Asian, and indigenous people through terrorizing, harassment, detainment, detention, deportation. They have deported U.S. citizens. And Trump has said he wants to deport U.S. citizens. And so we absolutely should see Minnesota as the test case for how they want to achieve their stated goal, which is to remove one third of the population from this country, black, brown, Asian and indigenous. This was their first chance to show people what they wanted to do. They see that people don't like it, so they're going to look for a different way. But they are not acting like people who want to win elections. They're acting like people who have a plan to not have free and fair elections. And we've seen what they've done in Georgia. We've seen the cases that they filed. We've seen the attempts at the Supreme Court. We should be all on high alert for what they are planning in November, because that has come through very, very loud and clear in the last year, but certainly in the last month or so.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah. I mean, Miles JP Cooley, who was Jack Smith's deputy on both the documents case and the January 6 case, said that the conduct that Donald Trump is engaged in now is the same conduct he was indicted for for his activity after the 2020 election.

[Miles Taylor]

Yeah, I mean, it's a continuation of a criminal conspiracy. That's how you've got to look at it. I mean, I. When the news broke in Fulton county, for instance, a lot of people were taking the administration's bait and saying, well, the DNI was there. They are saying that there's some kind of foreign interference. They were creating this story and a little bit of mystery around that. Foreign interference? No, no, no. This is very clear what it was. Donald Trump sat in the Oval Office in an interview with Tom Yamas at NBC News and said, well, those FBI agents are going to find out who really won the 2020 election. I doubt his team wanted him to say that. But as always, Donald Trump let the secret slip. Whatever his team says their intentions were, it seems like the President of the United States wanted to conduct an illegal recount at the hands of federal agents, which, again, would violate the United States Constitution. The federal government is not responsible for doing something like that, and certainly the president can't unilaterally do that. But that seems to be what is happening here. And I think that that spells danger for other states around this country. And I don't just think that the President has said he's looking at California and other states. They are normalizing these other very obvious violations of states rights like we saw in Minnesota, like we've now seen in Geor. They are going on the war path of those violations because the President is terrified of losing this election. So I would say in addition to immigration on elections, states need to stay frosty. They need to have their lawsuits ready because what happened in Fulton county is very likely to happen to others.

[Chris Hayes]

All right, no one's going anywhere. So much for sleeping soundly tonight. Still ahead for us, widespread condemnation from the left and now some on the right too. That's how bad it was of Pam Bonney and the Justice Department's commitment to protecting the so called Epstein class. We'll show that to you. Plus, holding the line, Donald Trump's efforts to punish his so called political enemies continues to get stopped by grand juries and judges. I'll show you what that looks like. And later in the broadcast, Professor Scott Galloway on how to stop Donald Trump the way it hurts the most. We'll get to all that and much more when Deadly White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Miles Taylor]

Obviously there's progress in that they are leaving right now.

[John Heilman]

But as far as some deal that was struck to get them out, the answer is no. I think what you saw is you saw a federal government and an administration that thought that they were gonna break the people of Minneapolis down. They thought that we were going to back down and sort of kowtow to.

[Miles Taylor]

Whatever it is that they were looking.

[John Heilman]

To get done, not just locally in Minneapolis, but nationwide. They were looking to implement a national agenda based on coercing us to change local policy.

[Miles Taylor]

And here's the thing, we didn't.

[John Heilman]

The people of Minneapolis stood up. They stood up for their neighbors.

[Miles Taylor]

They loved on each other.

[John Heilman]

And I think that's the kind of patriotism that is ultimately going to get us through this.

[Chris Hayes]

That was Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry speaking to my colleague Chris Hayes. You can catch the entire interview tonight at 8 o' clock on All In. We are back with the Senator Miles and John. John Heilman. I want to come to you on this, what the country is seeing out of the leaders of Minneapolis. And I'm coming to you instead of the senator because I don't want to make her uncomfortable. But there is something different in how Minneapolis and Minnesota have dealt with Donald Trump. And there is some pattern for people like you and me who've been covering Donald Trump for 10 years. When people fight back, he just moves on. I mean, he doesn't really like, he really does gravitate toward the low hanging fruit. And when people stand up to him, it's not that he likes it or hates it, he just moves on. What is your sense of sort of the lesson in Donald Trump that Minnesota has taught the country?

[John Heilman]

Well, I think to prioritize these things. Importantly, this is the thing I'm about to say is something that Minneapolis has in common with other places. But it's really important for everybody else to always think about which is. And the leaders in Minneapolis and in Minnesota have made this really clear nonviolence crucial. They are trying to provoke violent responses in these places. And if you give them violence, that will only escalate things. It will only lead to more bloodshed and it will also give them the upper hand politically because that's what they want to make people think, that all these people in these places that are exercising that are fighting back are instigators and are anti American and so on. So that's the first thing. And you heard Mayor Fry there with Chris Hayes talking about a definition of patriotism that is built around love. And nonviolence and not the opposite. But the thing you're talking about, Nicole, is something that we've seen in many, many occasions, in many, many forums over the course of the last year. And it's a very familiar phrase to you and to, to all of our panel today. It's taco. It's another version of the taco thing. You saw it on Greenland, you saw it on, on terrorists after a liberation day in those cases, in Jerome Powell, in those cases. You saw it from the market. The market stood up to Donald Trump and he tacoed, he chicken, he chickened out. He moved on to the next thing. It's, I mean, I can't say how obvious a lesson this is to anybody who's ever been on a schoolyard, but to all these big media companies who decided to capitulate. You know, what's the lesson? The lesson is if you give the schoolyard bully your lunch, he doesn't walk away and say thank you for lunch. He comes back the next day and says, please give me dinner and also give me your allowance and also give me your car keys and also give me whatever else that he wants to. That doesn't make him capitulating. Bowing and scraping before Donald Trump gets you nothing but more abuse. And standing up to Donald Trump gets you taco. You get Trump who says, you know, he is not fully insensate to political stimulus. And so it's like if you stand up to him and your cause is righteous and you stand up in the right way, he will back down. That none of that undercuts the points that we've all been making here about the long term threats that he poses and how this fight isn't over and how he's not moving on in the grand macro sense. He's going to keep trying to probe for weaknesses and trying to get done what he wants to get done. But in the moment when he comes to your doorstep, when the bully shows up, the right thing to do is not hand him your lunch money, but to kick him in the nuts.

[Chris Hayes]

Senator, you're welcome to pick up on John's point, or I'll give you another entry point, if you like. What is the rebuilding and when can it start?

[Erin Mayquaid]

Yeah, I mean, I'll take both the end of the last one and then I'll take the new entry point. Probably not the kick in the nuts part. You know, I think what makes the leaders of Minnesota special is the people of Minnesota. Every leader that you see before you on TV at a press conference, behind them are Tens of thousands of Minnesota hockey moms with minivans and whistles, daycare dads with pickup trucks delivering groceries, moms, pastors, rabbis with unwavering faith, labor leaders with iPhones. These are the people of Minnesota, and they are the ones who are showing up through their leaders all the time. They are just. Leaders are reflecting what is on the ground. I cannot overstate how deeply organized we are and how hyper locally we are organized. And it is just spread across the state. And that's what you're seeing in the leaders, is the people of Minnesota what comes next. I will say we want ice out of Minnesota. And that has not happened yet. Regardless of what has been said at a press conference, it's not ended. We want our neighbors back. There are 3,000 of our neighbors that are missing, that have been disappeared, that have been sent to concentration camps in other states. We want them back. We want the children back. We want our neighbors back. And then we need accountability, because it's not just the executions of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode. There have been thousands of people who have been terrorized, detained for no reason, their homes broken into, their cars crashed into. I mean, they've arrested journalists, both national and independent journalists in Minnesota. There is a lot of accountability that needs to happen with Secretary Noem, of course, but every person underneath her who executed this lawless surge, that needs to happen as well. And then we need repair. We've talked about the economic devastation. Yes. But the children of Minnesota, like half of the kids in some of these districts, aren't going to school right now because they're too afraid to leave their house. Small businesses are just crumbling under this surge. We need real repair. And that doesn't even begin to mention the restoration of the funding that they've already cut off from the state of Minnesota. So that is what repair will look like. And this has been like a natural disaster, but it was created by Trump and Republicans. We need that level of response.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I mean, Miles, that's the through line, right? Trump is a disaster created by Trump.

[Miles Taylor]

He absolutely is. And I take that point on repair. And that's the optimistic fatalism you and I have talked about for years. Nicole is at the risk of getting too philosophical. Nature destroys everything it creates, but it also creates from everything it destroys. It's been a very dark year. We probably have a few more very dark years. But on the back end of this, we have the opportunity to do some very serious civic rebuilding, and we don't have to wait until three years from now. Right now, the states are lighting the way for us. I mean, Minnesota nice has become something like Minnesota no nonsense. Or maybe it's better to say Minnesota no surrender. And that attitude and that demeanor is going to be what we need to take into the rebuilding. And that's going to be not just hoping we can revert back to 2014. And the world is going to be that way. And we're going to have strong inspector generals at agencies that will prevent these things from happening. We need some big, big reforms. But now is the moment to have those conversations. Just like we talked about the other week. We need a full overhaul of the Department of Homeland Security, and everything we've seen from Donald Trump shows us exactly why.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, I hear that increasingly from folks like Ian Bassin and Sue Gordon. And it's about rebuilding something more durable, something different. State Senator Erin May Quaid, it's a pleasure and a privilege. Thank you so much for starting us off. Miles Taylor thank you for starting us off. John Halman sticks around for the hour after the break for us. Pembani yesterday tried and failed to deflect and dismiss how accountability is still very much what all Americans want when it comes to the heinous and disgusting crimes committed by child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. And there's some devastating new poll numbers that reflect that. Back to us. We'll show them to you next.

[John Heilman]

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[Erin Mayquaid]

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[Chris Hayes]

So if you thought after one year and a month of Donald Trump 2.0, that there was no way Donald Trump and his administration could find new ways to humiliate themselves and, by extension, us, the people of this country, in the process. Pam Bondi proved you wrong yesterday and proved that with the Trump administration, there is always a new low to Achieve. Watch.

[Ad Host]

I'm reclaiming my channel.

[John Heilman]

I will claim my time.

[Chris Hayes]

I'll get in the gutter for her theatrics.

[John Heilman]

This is your committee, and she is embarrassing me.

[Chris Hayes]

Come on, you.

[Ad Host]

This wasn't a trick question.

[Miles Taylor]

You don't get to explain your time, Madam Attorney General.

[Chris Hayes]

Because I don't like.

[Miles Taylor]

Mr. Chairman, explain to the witness that.

[John Heilman]

He does reclaim his time.

[Chris Hayes]

Because I don't answer a question to your satisfaction, Mr.

[John Heilman]

Chair.

[Chris Hayes]

I'm not privileged.

[Miles Taylor]

Quiet.

[John Heilman]

Mr. Chairman, regular order, please.

[Ad Host]

She posted nothing on her X account.

[Chris Hayes]

On her Twitter account during the Biden year.

[Miles Taylor]

Gentle ladies.

[Chris Hayes]

Yet now, all of a sudden, there.

[Ad Host]

Was no question on you. This is not a game, Secretary.

[Chris Hayes]

I'm Attorney General.

[Ad Host]

My apologies. I couldn't tell.

[Chris Hayes]

I have no words. But that performance, in this instance, it wasn't me. That performance was so bad that while it was aimed at getting Bondi out of some sort of proverbial doghouse, she must be in with Donald Trump, who's called her weak and ineffective. According to the Wall Street Journal, it is unlikely to reverse the negative view the American people have about the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein files. Remember, 81% of Americans, based on polling over the summer, think Donald Trump is hiding something. There's more recent numbers. 52% think Trump is covering up Epstein's crimes. Americans believe that there's something in there. They've been told to believe that 50% believe that Trump was involved in the crimes Epstein is accused of. And just 29% disagreement. John Heilman is back. Heilman. This polling has gone from over the summer. 81% thought Trump was somehow involved in keeping these secret. Now, there are people who think Trump is involved in the crimes. I mean, that is taking sort of a guilt by association where it was a mystery that we talked about every day. Why isn't he releasing them? So now that they're out, you've got a majority of Americans who think that there's some proximity to the crimes. And this is a political calamity that Pam Bondi seemed, whether wittingly or unwittingly, to be determined to make worse yesterday.

[John Heilman]

Well, that's right, Nicole. In some ways, it's just the same story, except that every time we escalate from one level to the next, it makes Trump look bad, guiltier. Because, you know, the facts on the ground. The. The story that we've been telling this entire time through Epstein, the question we've been asking has been Donald Trump is acting like a guilty person. What. What has done what is he hiding? We don't know. We all would say he's not been accused of any crimes. We don't know what's in the Epstein files, but he's acting it like a guilty person. But we'll wait and see when we start to see the files, if we start to see the files. And the more that we see the files, the more we see Donald Trump's name is in these files, in a, in a, in thousands of references, in the three million, three and a half million documents that they just released. He's in there. I, the number is in the tens of thousands of times. We don't know how often it's in the, in the redacted versions. There have been some Democrats who've seen the unredacted who say it's, it's way, way larger, much, much larger number. And all of that doesn't get to the 2 million documents that the DOJ still has not put forward. So the notion that the deeper we get into this and the more that we learn about it, the more we see Trump's name in various ways, again, not so far incriminating of having committed any crime or done anything wrong, done anything legally wrong, but the reality continues to be worse and worse for him because it just begs the question in a louder and louder voice, why are these 2 million documents still not being released? Why is his former personal lawyer Todd Blanche saying that the investigation is now over and there will be no more documents even though we know there are 2 million more? Why? Why, why all of those whys. With each turn of the screw, with each turn of the crank, it get, the picture gets darker for Donald Trump. Even though there's been no direct evidence adduced that he's committed any kind of crime with any, under, any underage girl. And Pam Bondi, not just in that performance, but going all the way back to the initial Pam Bondi performance. Not the time when she went on television and said that she had the Epstein files there on her desk, but when she invited all those right wing influencers into the White House and said we're gonna release all these files, all the information is gonna come out, she is the proximate cause, not the deeper cause, because the deeper cause goes way back to Jeffrey Epstein and his associates. But she is the proximate cause of Donald Trump's biggest political liability throughout this entire term so far. And everything she does, as you said, wittingly or unwittingly, is only making it worse because she seemed utterly hysterical yesterday on Capitol Hill, as even the right pointed out on multiple occasions yesterday.

[Chris Hayes]

Let me bring into our conversation the publisher of the Bulwark, the host of the focus group podcast, Sarah Longwell. Sarah, I keep thinking of the things they've done since they have been back, and what they've done since they've been back is that Bondi's deputy, Todd Blanche, went and met with a convicted child sex trafficker. And these are some of the things that Ghislaine Maxwell is accused of doing, participating in the sexual abuse. One of the survivors said she took off her underwear. These were girls who were raped. That is the textbook definition. Regardless of what Meghan Kelly says about age, that is the legal crime of child rape. That's what pedophiles do. These are pedophiles. And you've got, again, wittingly or unwittingly, you've got Todd Blanche, who cozied up to her, went and met with her. After he met with her, she was moved to a low security prison. She broke one of the programs where at that low security prison they train puppies. But you're not allowed to have a sex offender around a puppy, because a puppy is viewed as vulnerable. And sex offenders aren't allowed to be around. Vulnerable. People are creatures. They're breaking all of these systems since they've been back in office to do what? What do people think is behind all of the contortions when it comes to the Epstein files?

[Ad Host]

All right, well, let me tell you something. So this is the Epstein administration because there are two types of people in it. There are people who are in the Epstein files and there are people who are covering up the Epstein files. There are nobody else in this administration that is not as one of those two buckets. But I have been hearing from voters now for a long time. You know, we've been listening to voters talk about Epstein. And one of the reasons Trump is so vulnerable on Epstein is because it goes to a central mythology of Trump where Trump is the kind of person who is supposed to be above the elites that don't tell you things. Trump is like, no, I'm going to tell you if there are aliens in space. I'm going to tell you if there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll. Like, I am here to uncover all the conspiracy theories that you have ever been wondering about that they, those elites, that those people have been hiding from you. And so the voters are genuinely confused as to why this guy who they thought was going to be sort of their advocate to uncover all the unseemly business of these global elites why he now seems to be engaged in a cover up. And they know now like what I don't understand is this is sort of the opposite of what you do in a crisis PR situation. Like the rules of crisis communications is you tell it all, you tell it fast and you tell the truth and you try to get past it. They are making this bigger, I think than it even had to be for them. The way that they are dripping this out, I mean, as John was just pointing out, everything that is so explosive that we've heard is, is like there's still 3 million more files to see. That means this is what they've been willing to show us so far. And the way that she behaved yesterday. Now look, the voters are not watching congressional hearings, but I gotta say I don't understand the mode of going in there and behaving like a lunatic. That is obviously going to raise the specter. Like SNL is clearly gonna do a skit about that this weekend. Those clips are going to be everywhere. It took it from what could have been sort of a sober hearing in which she behaved like a normal human being, acknowledged the victims, you know, gave us some information, but instead she behaved like a crazy person. And now voters are, are much more likely to see it as a result of that and much more likely to continue to not understand what they are hiding. I've watched the evolution with Trump voters from wait, I'm mad that Pam Bondi's not releasing the files or I don't know what's going on to what is Trump doing? Trump is covering something up. Like they are getting increasingly agitated by the lack of information and it's starting to move not just from Bondi but to Trump himself.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah, the whole, it's the lack of humanity against the survivors who have no political leanings. Right. They go down there and they meet with Republicans as well and they say that the Republicans are nice to them in private, but they won't do anything in public. So the survivors are not going to be easily smeared by whatever efforts. And I think that's why you've got all sorts of MAGA figures. Tim Pool and Erik Erickson breaking with Pam Bondi today. I have to seek in a break. We'll pick this up on the other side. Stay with us. We're back with Sarah and John. Sarah, I wonder if you can put this moment with the people of Minneapolis at least getting the Trump administration to blink in whatever game of chicken the Trump administration thinks is playing with ice with Olympians. Seemingly speaking out, perhaps with some fear, but doing it over and over and over again. Talking about their love of their country, but their disapproval of a lot of our policies. More and more artists and athletes speaking out. Where do you see this moment right now? And what do you see in the Democratic Party that matches the energy on the streets of American cities like Minneapolis?

[Ad Host]

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. There is a difference between the energy of the people and the energy of the elected officials. I listen to the anger from voters, Democratic voters, all the time that are so desperate for someone to do something and when they don't, what you see instead is the day to day bravery of the average person. Like the Olympians are kind of scared, especially because they know the President of the United States is going to attack them on social media at one of the most important points of their life that they've worked so hard for, but they're doing it. It is cold outside and even when I drive down in D.C. it is very cold, not nearly as cold as it is in Minneapolis. And there are people with signs every single day. The rage is real and it is showing up in polling. I mean, Donald Trump is hitting his highest disapproval levels, even more than when he was at his sort of worst lows in the first term. And I gotta say, part of what it is is that I talk about this a lot on this show. About the biggest frustration for voters is always the cost of living and the fact that Donald Trump is not doing anything about it. But the way it contrasts, whether it's Epstein, whether it's what's happening in Minneapolis, whether it's the ballroom tearing down the East Wing, it's not, they are angry about those things in their own right. But it is the contrast of Trump focusing on those things, doing those things, committing those excessive, you know, ice tactics and everything else, combined with the fact that he is doing nothing about the economy, that he's not focused on the economy, that is combining to really cause like, I don't want to say the bottoms dropping out, because that would be to overstate it, but he has been on a complete downward trend line. And like you said, the blinking is about them understanding that they have lost control of the narrative. They are getting on the back foot. And this is why, like those people who, when Trump first came into office and felt like he had a mandate, you know, and so they were so scared, the law firms or universities, they're caving get back on offense. This guy is not winning over the public. He is not popular. What he is doing is not something that people want to see. And so everybody needs to start speaking out now.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah. And I mean, my colleague Rachel Madam made the point. Some of those people and firms that capitulated should go reexamine those decisions in their cozy conference rooms and make different decisions that reflect where the country is. Sarah Longwell, it's always a treat when we get to talk to you. John Heilman, thank you. Always a treat to have you for the hour. Thank you, my friends. Up next for us, there's new reporting that Jared Kushner is at the center of that whistleblower complaint against Tulsi Gabbard. We'll tell you about it next. There's some stunning new reporting that has broken since we've been on the air that is telling us more about that highly classified whistleblower complaint against the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Both the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times are now reporting that the complaint was related to a conversation between two foreign nationals about Donald Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. The New York Times, citing people familiar with the material, reports this quote, it was a discussion last year between two foreign nationals about Iran, not an unusual topic for American spies to study. The foreign nationals were discussing Mr. Kushner, but some officials who have read the underlying intelligence or been briefed on its contents downplayed the significance of the references to him. The foreign nationals, they said, were commenting on Mr. Kushner's influence within the Trump administration at a time last year when Kushner's role in Middle east peace talks was less public than it is now. The foreign officials were recorded saying that he was the person to speak to in order to influence the talks. The whistleblower has accused Tulsi Gabbard of trying to suppress their report and blocking distribution of it among the intelligence community. We'll stay on top of that after the break. A federal judge is slamming Pete Hegseth and the entire Trump administration for its efforts to punish Senator Mark Kelly, just one of the many legal guardrails working overtime these days. The next hour of deadline, White House starts after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

[John Heilman]

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[Miles Taylor]

VGW Group Void where prohibited by log.

[John Heilman]

See Terms and conditions for details.

[Miles Taylor]

21.