Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (1:46)

Guess who else knew he really lost? Hi again, everybody. It's five o' clock in New York. We begin this hour with a reality check, a level set. There was no widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election that would have changed the outcome, period. And everyone knew it. Lifelong conservative Republican Bill Barr knew it. Donald Trump's Attorney General, Chris Krebs, lifelong Republican Chris Krebs knew it. Donald Trump knew it. That's why he knew exactly how many votes he needed to change his defeat. We are happy to say it over and over again. And it's important because Donald Trump is still peddling those lies about the election. He, he's still looking for those 11,780 votes. Trump posted this last night, quote, crooked elections cannot be allowed in the United States of America. President DJT and Key Political Voices in Georgia urges state to take over Fulton county elections after FBI raid that last post is a call for the State of Georgia to take over elections in Fulton County, Georgia Fulton county has been a target of Donald Trump's election conspiracies for years now, and it's where the FBI raided the elections offices late last month to take the records related to the 2020 election. Our reporter Ebony Davis is reporting now that Fulton county officials are fighting back. In a new court filing, they point out that a former Trump campaign lawyer, Kurt Olson, was revealed to be the person behind the search and seizure of the county's 2020 election materials and was the person to accuse the FBI of putting forth a, quote, flagrantly misleading narrative to obtain a search warrant for The Georgia county's 2020 election records last month. From their filing, quote, the affidavit admits that the entire criminal investigation originated from a referral sent by Kurt Olson, but it conceals the fact that multiple courts have sanctioned Kurt Olson for his unsubstantiated speculative claims about elections and filing rates. Quote, the affidavit does nothing more than describe the types of human errors that its own sources confirm occur in almost every election without any intentional wrongdoing whatsoever. Fulton county and Trump's election defeat in Georgia has remained a complete, rather pathetic obsession of Donald Trump's for more than five years now. Recall that notorious phone call we played you with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger again, where Trump is demanding that Raffensperger find those votes and investigate the vote count in. Wait for it, Fulton County. To, quote, find those votes, Trump needed to overturn Joe Biden's clear victory. But it's not the only place that Trump is focused on today. Earlier this month, Donald Trump made false claims of voter fraud in states all across our country, including Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia. Now his allies in swing states are working overtime to try to fabricate those delusions and back them up, including in the state of Arizona, where Republicans in the state legislature appear to have received Trump's message loud and clear. The Arizona Mirror is recording this quote, arizona Republicans want to require ICE officers to be stationed at polling places. This year, the Arizona Senate will take up a proposal to force all 15 of the state's counties to sign an agreement with ICE to provide for a federal immigration law enforcement presence at each location within the state where ballots are cast or deposited. And breaking just this afternoon, brand new reporting in the New York Times that ICE is now getting involved in Trump's search for voter fraud from that reporting, quote, Homeland Security officials at the direction of the White House are intensifying efforts to investigate voting by noncitizens in pursuit of President Trump's baseless claim that illegal voting by undocumented immigrants is rampant and an insidious threat. Homeland Security Investigations, an arm of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, recently issued a two page memo requiring its employees to, quote, review all open and closed voter fraud cases involving immigrants who registered to vote or actually voted before they became naturalized U.S. citizens. Trump's brazen attempts to weaponize his own lies in order to potentially seize control of our elections is where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Voting rights attorney and founder of Democracy Docket, Mark Elias is here. Also joining us, New York Times reporter Nick Corsinetti and Media Matters President Angelo Caracon. Mark, I feel like there are big bodies of public facing evidence of what this looks like that the January 6 select committee gave us the officials in Arizona who were harassed and targeted and called pedophiles on trucks with moving billboards to do what Donald Trump is trying to do now, six years later, the attacks and threats of violence against Georgia officials that were so dire that one of Raffensperger's deputies, Gabe Sterling, went to the microphones and was the first to say before, I think before January 6th, quote, somebody's going to die. Camp who? This is a Trump. These are Trump Republicans. They're MAGA Republicans in Raffensper and Kemp in Georgia who certified the results of that election there. And it's Raffensperger on the other end of the call where Trump's asking him to steal 11,780 votes.

Mark Elias (7:00)

Yeah, look, the thing about the Trump administration this go around and Donald Trump is that there is no quiet part. You know, so oftentimes we are looking for the quiet part to be said out loud in a kind of a blurting fashion or we're looking for the thing that's being covered up. What Donald Trump is saying here is he's saying quite loudly, like you put on the screen the most recent social media posts. You know, the affidavit that you pointed out in Fulton county was signed by Kurt Olson. I mean, Kurt Olson was behind Texas effort to throw out the election results in four states, trying to get the Supreme Court to do that and that failed. He was involved in several cases in Arizona, including an effort to overturn the gubernatorial race there, that my law firm represented Katie Hobbs, the winner. And as you point out, Colonel to not only lost, but he was ultimately sanctioned by the state courts there. And yet they put him forward, not hiding it, putting him forward as the person where all of this originates. They are. And of course, you have have the Arizona legislature calling for ICE to be deployed at polls and the wonderful New York Times reporting, which is really adding an essential context to all of this. They're not hiding this. They're saying they're going to try to interfere with the 2026 elections. They are saying that they will seize ballots. They are saying Donald Trump is saying that he thinks Republicans need to take over the voting in 15 places, 15 states or cities. And, you know, and so we all need to understand that this is what is being planned by the other side. Now, it doesn't mean they're going to succeed. It doesn't mean we won't defeat them in court. My law firm and I were fighting them in more than 80 places right now. So it doesn't mean that all is lost, but it also means that we shouldn't go hide. We shouldn't go looking for what's hiding in the corners and listening to the whispers. We should be listening to what they're saying very loudly out front.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (8:58)

Yeah. So let me deal with what is. I feel like there's this thing with covering Trump where the most insidious thing is the election denier still lying about 2020, who is behind this push, somehow got a magistrate judge to authorize the rate of the election office after that sort of most dangerous ring. Is it the next ring, this lie about people in this country who are not naturalized voting? Again, don't believe me. Let's look at the Trump administration's investigation into that question, which is a lie. The concerns of a larger number of people, I think, than even the lies about the outcome of the 2020 election. This is also from the New York Times. Administration targets non citizen voting despite finding it rare. Quote, the push comes as an analysis of immigrant voting commissioned by Donald Trump has provided no evidence of widespread or even significant voter fraud. According to interviews with government officials and documents reviewed by the New York Times, officials referred about 10,000 of 49.5 million voter registrations to Homeland Security investigations. That's the same branch being called into action. Based on Today's reporting, roughly 0.02% of the names processed required further investigations. And of those, there's no evidence that they found anybody. Do you know why we know that, Mark Elias? Because we would have heard about it. Donald Trump would have addressed the nation if he found one voter fraud. I mean, Jimmy Carter and James Baker look at it after the 2000 recount. I mean, voter fraud is not a crime committed in this country. And when it is, we have laws to prosecute it. What is just plainly the actual motive of stationing ICE outside polling places?

Mark Elias (10:50)

Yeah, and I just want to clarify one quick thing there that's looking at people who are registered, right? Those are not people who voted. Right. So, so, like even that overstates the amount of irregularity. I won't even call it fraud, which is people who erroneously get registered to vote who are not eligible, but that doesn't mean they then show up to vote. That number is, as far as we can tell, approaching zero. And so, you know, there's, when you talk about voter fraud, that is, frankly, when it comes to non citizens, almost completely without any basis at all. Now why are they doing this? They're doing it for two reasons. Number one, because they want to connect two narratives. They want to create the narrative. They want to connect the narrative of the demonization that they are doing of migrants and of, of people who are in this country legally or otherly or, or not legally. Who. The, the, the, the, they are trying to demonize it. The second, though, and attention to this, because this is actually in some ways more important is they are trying to lay the predicate for when they say that the states can't be trusted to count their own ballots, they want to lay down the predicate. Today, as Donald Trump said, he believes the states are the agents of the federal government in counting, tabulating ballots. He thinks Republicans should take over that process. And so what he wants to be able to say is in November, when it looks like they've lost, look, we need the federal government to take over the counting here because we have the immigration records, we have ice, we have dhs, we have all this information and we will do the counting. And if you want to find 11,800 and some odd votes that don't exist, the only way you do it is by taking over the counting. And that is what Donald Trump really wants.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (12:35)

And Angela, this gets at something that is so central to Trump's success, the narrative control over the lie that his own administration debunks. So these are not, this is not an NBC investigation, this is not a New York Times investigation, this is not a DNC investigation, this is a Trump's second term as president investigation that the New York Times reports finds there is essentially no voter fraud that took place. 0.02% of the names process, which, as Mark points out, those are registered voters, not actual voters. But so they are now ceding doubt for actions that are unconstitutional predicated on the same big lie.

Angelo Carusone (13:17)

That's right. And I think that, you know, Mark sort of laid out some of the pieces, you know, by referencing, you know, Kurt Olson, who was a player in the past that sort of reemerged. But he's not the only one. There are others all across the government, you know, not just on the inside, but on the outside that are helping reinforce and buttress that narrative from official purchase. People like Heather Honey, other 2020 election deniers, suddenly government employee status so that they can help work on these investigations that are now taking place elsewhere. So that's the first piece. They have the ability now to operationalize threads of that narrative from an official position. And then the second part that helps sort of, you know, connect it together is that. And this is the part that I think is very scary and concerning. It's alarming because it ties into the narrative piece, which is that they have a constellation of these sort of investigative type creators, people that were doing things like what James o' Keefe used to do, who are going out there and putting together these exposes, these reports of the scandal. They're manufacturing the evidence through the, through this intrigue. And then they use those official positions and their larger right wing echo chamber to then pluck it up and make a big thing about it. What happened in Minnesota recently was an example of that cycle. It was a test run. A video guy goes out there, he does a video about all this, you know, all of this Somali fraud. They then make a big thing about it and they say, we have to send an Isaac down on it. Look how big it is. Well, that same person is out there right now and just many others that are doing similar types of sort of videos in California and elsewhere. And then so they're going to help fuel that narrative as time goes on. And then the third piece, and Mark said this as well, they're not saying it quiet, they're saying it very blatantly out loud. There are 2020 election deniers that are talking about their relationship with the White House right now who are teeing up what they're doing in Arizona and nine other states. They're bragging about it on right wing media because that is how the loop gets completed. There is this connective tissue between these fantastic storytellers, this larger right wing echo chamber, and the Trump administration. And the proposition is sort of win, win from, from their perspective. Either you can gin up enough effort on the front end to create obstacles to voting and sort of essentially have, you know, sort of a position where you end up winning or you suppress the vote enough that you win some places or you diminish some, some victories for Democrats or the other hand, you create so much chaos and confusion afterwards and so much undermining of the election that the only thing that's left in all that chaos is the strong man. And that's the Trump administration. And that all ties into the narrative power that he's demonstrated again and again and again.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (15:52)

So, Nick, we think we've adequately set up the danger and the worst case scenario. I mean, enter the heroes of our times, election workers. And the last election we had in November was a Democratic wipeout. Republicans were literally wiped out everywhere they were contested. And that was all across the country. There have been state legislative races in deep red pockets of deep red states. Democrats have swung 20, 30, 40 points. So there's all sorts of sort of predicate now for big swings toward the Democrats. You've also got judges that have been pretty solid. But how do you sort of evaluate, based on your now years long body of reporting, the state of play ahead of the midterms?

Nick Corsinetti (16:40)

Well, I mean, it's clear that in most midterms historically, right, they go against the incumbent president, especially in the first term. So history would just point that Democrats are poised for a big year. And Trump's poll numbers indicate that it could be even bigger. So there's been a lot of moves to try and mitigate that by the Trump administration. I think the most public and clear one that they're just blatant about is the national redistricting war. As they say, this is for partisan gain. We're trying to get more seats to help us maintain control of Congress. And Trump has said, I need to keep both chambers because if I don't, you know, my administration's over, they'll investigate me, they'll stymie my priorities, they might even impeach me. So he's made very clear just how critical control of the House is. And then all of these steps kind of tie together as part of a massive strategy to keep it. His administration officials are not shy by saying redistricting is part of that strategy. But I think as we look at some of these other moves regarding voting, you start to see a strategy as well. And whether it's some of the worst case scenarios that Mark talked about earlier or even just sowing distrust and basically create an atmosphere where no one's going to trust the election. His base has been conditioned that if Republicans lose it was because of fraud. But there's a lot of Democrats now who are so alarmed that there could be movements behind the scenes by Republicans or by the Trump administration that maybe if they win, it could be because of some weird, you know, machinations behind the scene. So all in all, this contributes to a massive lack of confidence in our elections that is coming from actions, you know, mostly by the White House that also, I think, contributes to a strategy and sets up for what could be a very messy 20, 26 midterms.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (18:24)

Yeah, like they, they, they do better than expected. And because they've made so many public efforts at cheating, no one trusts that and they get wiped out. But because they've spent eight years now sowing doubt about the quality of caliber and security of our elections, no one trusts that. No one's going anywhere. We have much more in the story. I want to swing back to Fulton county and show you what Senator John Ossoff had to say about why Fulton County. Also ahead for us, eight months after gunmen shot and wounded State Senator John Hoffman and killed Senator Melissa Hortman and her husband, the family dog, state legislators in Minnesota paid tribute with Hoffman delivering a message about keeping democracy alive. Just that moment and later in the broadcast, Colbert is firing back at his parent company. Firing back at him. Firing back after they deny that they ever tried to stop Colbert from interviewing Texas Democrat James Talarico. We'll play for you what he said and we'll keep you updated on that story. Deadline Whitehouse continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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Mark Elias (19:33)

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Angelo Carusone (20:41)

Now.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (20:42)

Why Fulton?

Aisha Gomez (20:50)

Well, in part for the same reason.

Nick Corsinetti (20:52)

This president posts videos that depict Barack and Michelle Obama as apes. See, the power of black voters and the fact that the power of black voters ejected him from office may outrage him more than the defeat itself.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (21:12)

That's right.

Angelo Carusone (21:12)

That's right.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (21:13)

That's right.

Mark Elias (21:14)

That's right. And so he tries to delegitimize your exercise of power.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (21:27)

That was Georgia Senator Jon Ossoff delivering a scathing rebuke of Donald Trump and the election lies he continues to tell about Atlanta on Sunday. We're back with Mark, Nick and Angelo. I mean, Mark. The, the racism in voter suppression efforts, I know, is something you deal with legally, but perhaps we don't deal with it as frontally in how we cover it. Just talk about how much success they've had in pushing and passing voter suppression laws all across the country. Oh, you're muted. You have to unmute and start over.

Mark Elias (22:06)

Sorry about that.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (22:07)

That's okay.

Mark Elias (22:07)

Yeah. Look, you're right. I mean, the fact is that the Republican Party has come to understand that in order to win elections, they need to make it harder for people to vote. But not make it harder for everyone to vote. They need to make it harder disproportionately for black voters, for young voters and for other minorities. In that order. Right. Because black voters are such an essential part of the Democratic Party's electoral coalition. And too often when the media looks at voter suppression laws, they look at it from the perspective of their own experience rather than the targeted group. So I'll give you an example. In 2020, my law firm brought a lawsuit against Georgia for differential wait times for in person voting. And if you were in the Democratic primary or there were primaries in 2020 and you were in a precinct that was 90% or more white voters, you waited in an average six minutes to vote. But if you're in the same six counties around Atlanta and the precinct was 90% or more black voters, you waited in line 50 minutes. So for the person who waits six minutes, they're not waiting at all. And they don't understand when there's been a law passed to ban food and water providing to people waiting in line, they don't understand why that law is Necessary? Well, the people who understand why it's necessary are the people who are waiting nearly an hour on average. And I could replicate that across a lot of different states and across a lot of different types of laws. You know, in North Carolina, we just saw the Republicans ban early voting sites on college campuses. But they didn't just pick all the college campuses. They picked one that is the largest historically black college in the country. They targeted that one. And again, that's not the kind of thing that makes national news. So when you hear, you know, people in the media say, well, you know, there are these fights over these election rules this way or that, unless it involves redistricting, where people do intuitively get it, they don't understand that these rules that are being targeted, these laws that are being passed are targeting black voters with near surgical precision. That's the words that a federal judge used in 2013 to describe what Republicans were doing to black voters, targeting them with near surgical precision. Well, if you believe the Republican Party of Mitt Romney was doing that, what do you think the Republican Party of Donald Trump is doing?

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (24:32)

I mean, Nick, you've been chronicling this with your reporting since the hours after the dust settled in 2020, and it is where Joe Biden was inaugurated as our president. But the lie lived on and did so much damage in terms of cutting off access to the right to vote.

Nick Corsinetti (24:52)

Yeah, you know, there was a big spate of laws in 2021, immediately after the election that reduced access. You know, whether it was mail ballots, whether it was voter registration requirements that were in Georgia, that was in Texas, it was in Florida, a bunch of red states, some swing states. And it often would be felt the most in cities. And that has continued. You know, there was a lot of attention. I mean, Major League Baseball moved their All Star game out in protest of the new voting law in Georgia in 2021. That kind of response hasn't necessarily kept up. But a lot of the voting changes continue, and, you know, they're continuing this year. But it also goes back to what we were talking about before the break. Almost every one of these bills says that they're designed to restore confidence in elections. Right. Or they're designed to shore up election integrity. And so much of that confidence was eroded in the attempts to overturn the 2020 election and everything that's come out of it. So it's almost manufacturing a reason for then these new laws to exist. You see it in the preamble of so many. And the President has kind of made clear the cities are where he wants to focus. You know, when he was talking earlier this month about a desire to nationalize elections, he picked three cities that he, that he focused on. It was Detroit, Philadelphia, and Atlanta. Three major cities. Three cities with a ton of Democratic voters and a massive concentration of black voters. So we see the patterns have come, you know, pretty much since 2021.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (26:20)

And Angela, what's interesting is the effort to suppress the vote in diverse cities and locales sort of knows no boundary. I mean, he won all three of those states in 2024.

Angelo Carusone (26:33)

Yeah, yeah. It ties into one of the stories here that is part of the right. I mean, if you think back to the Unite the Right rally during Trump's first term, one of the things they chanted was, Jews will not replace us. And what they were referring to was white genocide, a concept that has only gotten more traction in the MAGA and right wing universe, not less since then. And it's this idea that not only is white culture being eroded and shrunk and diminished, but the second part directly ties in with the voting part because it says that Democrats are liberals or in some parts of MAGA media think it's Jews. They're importing all of these immigrants, you know, legal and otherwise, so that they can flood the ballot boxes so that they can keep permanent power, so that they can build a permanent constituency. That is where one of the biggest tie ins between sort of all this immigration and anti immigrant sentiment, this idea of white genocide that Trump has not only tapped into that cauldron of animus, but has really channeled it. And all these voting rules that they've been implementing. And you know, it obviously is racist, but it also, you know, that's where a lot of the fuel comes from. They are really using that story to say this is our response to something that you've been told. And all the outputs about their attacks on DEI and otherwise, they all sort of stem from this underlying thing of white genocide, which is fundamentally a grievance and race issue.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (27:54)

Unbelievable. Mark Elias, Nick Corsini, thank you so much for starting us off on this. We'll stay on top of these stories. Angela sticks around. Coming up for us, the survivor of a horrific act of political violence that shocked the nation is out today with a message about how we keep our democracy intact. We'll bring you that story next.

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Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (29:36)

Eight months after a horrific act of political violence claimed the lives of two people and injured another and shocked the entire nation, the survivor of that tragedy, Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman, returned on Tuesday to that state's legislative chamber for the first day of the state's legislative session. Hoffman shooter also took the lives of his colleague, State Representative Melissa Hortman, her husband Mark, and their golden retriever, Gilbert. After being shot, Hoffman had to learn how to walk again, so he was escorted up the steps by the law enforcement officers who kept watch of him and his family during his recovery. The chamber also held a tribute honoring Melissa Hartman's life and service, led by Governor Tim Walz. Senator Hoffman also spoke and addressed his colleagues. Take a listen.

Nick Corsinetti (30:25)

The people of Minnesota are not asking us to be harsher. They're asking us to be steady. They're not asking us to win debates. They're asking us to solve problems. They are not asking us to make the best speeches or get the most clicks. They're asking us to lead members. Let's rise above the noise and let us govern with humility and let us prove through our actions, not just words, that democracy is stronger than fear.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (30:55)

I want to bring into our coverage Minnesota State Representative Aisha Gomez. She served alongside Melissa Hortman. Thank you so much for being here.

Aisha Gomez (31:04)

Thank you for having me.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (31:06)

Can I play a little bit of what Melissa Hartman's son said about his mom. Please.

Aisha Gomez (31:14)

Yeah.

Angelo Carusone (31:15)

How would your mom be approaching this.

Aisha Gomez (31:19)

Moment as session starts, especially after ICE raids, immigration operations and the issues that it left behind?

Nick Corsinetti (31:28)

Sure. I think ideally she would bust out the prayer that she carried with her Everywhere. Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. And it begins with, lord, make me an instrument of your peace. And I think that there's a lot of really good language in there and she would try to bring the energy of that poem. It's just when we, I'm thinking a lot about, like, how to say it, but it's like when we silence grief, we silence empathy too. And in that we're like removing the connection from each other.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (32:05)

So beautiful. And it's so hard to sit in one's grief. It's such a profound way to, way to put it.

Aisha Gomez (32:15)

Yeah. I think that, you know, Colin and Mark and Melissa's daughter Sophie have just been such a beacon for us and have embodied, you know, Mark and Melissa's spirit message and how they live their lives since their death. And we're just grateful for them and for that really insightful statement by Colin yesterday.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (32:41)

What is it like to come back to a chamber where your colleagues are not missing because they retired? She's not missing because of disease or illness. She's missing from the most terrifying thing that can happen to anyone in the public arena. This horrific act of political violence. Has that shattered any sense of security for you?

Aisha Gomez (33:08)

I mean, of course, yesterday was, it was so sad. It's, you know, our leader pointed out that there's one member of the legislature serving right now who has been there, had, has been there longer than Melissa had been. She'd been in the legislature for 20 years. You know, I think that the, I mean, Melissa and Mark and Gilbert were killed by a Christian nationalist, an anti abortion zealot in their home in the middle of the night by somebody impersonating a police officer. It is just an unthinkable tragedy. And certainly it's, I think anybody who's in public service and doing this exact job, it's hard for us to imagine, you know, moving about our lives in the same way that we would before. But it was also really beautiful to be together and, you know, to, to just be in that building that's so full of her and her work and her spirit and what she brought to the institution of the House of Representatives, what she brought to our state and to, you know, the, the, the chamber orchestra was there playing music and we had sort of remembrance from the leaders of our caucuses and we all laid flowers on her seat. And she was a. She was a gardener. She loved flowers and trees. And she was our fearless leader and our beloved colleague. And we miss her and Mark so much.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (34:53)

What would she think about the whole country and the whole world and Bruce Springsteen writing songs about Minneapolis and Minnesota right now because of the way the people of your state are taking care of each other?

Aisha Gomez (35:09)

Yeah, I mean, I think of, you know, Melissa was like, she wasn't a flashy person. She was a humble, kind of, you know, get it done woman. She was hilarious and kind of a smack talker in her private life. But, you know, she. We have a. We're the land of Hubert Humphrey.

Angelo Carusone (35:30)

Right.

Aisha Gomez (35:30)

And he had this politics of joy thing. And she would joke. I'm a. That she's about the politics of drudgery.

Angelo Carusone (35:39)

Right.

Aisha Gomez (35:39)

Because she understood that the work of the people is not like, flashy. It's not romantic. It's like she was down in spreadsheets. She wanted to make sure that programs worked for the people who they were designed to work for. You never met a harder campaigner. She got her first majority in 2019 based on her will and her hard work. And nobody knocked more doors than her, and nobody raised more money than her. And nobody instilled in their members this work ethic around campaigning more than her. But when we got in the building, she understood that the work is to deliver for the people of Minnesota. And in so many ways, I think about this kind of like humble, just like, get things done ethic of really deeply caring for our neighbors, which is the thing that we saw on display in Minnesota, we've seen on display over the last 1112 weeks of Trump's incursion as something that was just like how Melissa lived her life, you know? So when you see that kind of like everyday courage and everyday just commitment to doing the things that need to be done for each other, that that's what Melissa brought to her work and what Melissa and Mark brought to their lives. And we miss our friends so much.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (37:06)

I imagine it is so hard to talk about it, but we really appreciate your help in remembering her and honoring her today. Thank you.

Aisha Gomez (37:15)

Thank you so much for having me and thank you for talking about Mark and Melissa today.

Angelo Carusone (37:19)

Appreciate.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (37:19)

It's my privilege. Thank you. State Representative Aisha Gomez. Thank you. After the break, Stephen Colbert takes on CBS again. We'll play for you what he had to say last night.

Angelo Carusone (37:41)

They know damn well that every word of my script last night was approved.

Mark Elias (37:45)

By CBS's lawyers, who for the record, approve every script that goes on the air. I got called backstage to get more notes from these lawyers, something that had never, ever happened before. And they told us the language they wanted me to use to describe that equal time exception. And I used that language. So I don't know what this is about.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (38:11)

That was Stephen Colbert last night taking CBS to task after CBS made a big deal about denying that it gave into pressure from Donald Trump and his FCC chair, Brendan Carr, and blocked Colbert from broadcasting an interview with Texas State Representative James Talarico. Colbert's team posted the interview on YouTube instead, where it has received more than 6 million views and counting. CBS said that instead of barring Colbert's interview, it had, quote, presented options for how the equal time for other candidates could be fulfilled. Here's what Colbert said about that last night.

Mark Elias (38:48)

I am well aware that we can book other guests. I didn't need to be presented with that option. I've had Jasmine Crockett on my show twice. I could prove that to you. I could prove that to you. But the network won't let me show you her picture without including her opponents. So I'll just. I'll have to show you this picture of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein instead.

Angelo Carusone (39:13)

Now, this is a surprisingly small piece.

Mark Elias (39:14)

Of paper considering how many butts it's trying to cover. I don't even know what to do with this crap. Oh, hold on.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (39:39)

Angelo. This feels like the wrong fight to pick. One, nothing enrages Donald Trump more than being laughed at. Two, nothing projects weakness more than your heavies having to muscle in the person getting under your skin. And three, Colbert just keeps going up, up, up, up up into the stratosphere in terms of his reach and his courage.

Angelo Carusone (40:02)

Yeah, I mean, it's a weird to pick, but it's an important story here. And I think what Colbert has done is help identify something a lot bigger than just what's happening at his show. Because it's just a couple weeks ago that the FCC changed a rule that was designed to sort of start to create these kinds of disruptions. I mean, they basically said they're going to get rid of a waiver that and an exception that has been in place for more than 20 years and that they're going to get to decide. They didn't issue any guidance about definitions or who is in and who's out. They said they're going to get to decide when that exception applies. Now in this new sort of weird terrain, and they've already used it, by the way, I think Everybody keeps forgetting that. But a few weeks after they changed that rule, they went after the View with an investigation for, coincidentally enough, a James Talarico interview. And so I think this is the new normal here. And so. So that's, to me, the big part of what Colbert was doing was not just protecting his own program in this case, and obviously illustrating what was going on at cbs, which we all know, but also something much bigger, which is that they've now, you know, created the conditions where they get to disrupt the way that the media has helped tell stories for more than 20 years. And I think, you know, I'm a firm adherent to the idea that, you know, believe that when there's a will, there's a way. And I think it's a reminder that they've made all the tweaks. They know where all the levers are to implement the kinds of changes that they've intended. And that's what we talked about with Project 2025. And sometimes they seem like a bummer, but it's worth knowing that that will works in reverse, that we can fix things, too, and we just have to be mindful of that.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (41:36)

Well, and I think the problem that they have right now politically, is that Donald Trump, his popularity is sinking like a stone. And for all the coalitions that glommed onto him to project him to victory, they are most repelled by the assault on the First Amendment. Also, at a personal level, Joe Rogan is the guy that said to Talarico, why don't you run for president? You're a good person, end quote. What threat is it that Talarico represents to the Trump coalition?

Angelo Carusone (42:04)

That's so. Right. And that's, you know, look, when we talk about narrative dominance and these things, you know, one of the few things that tends to break through are some of these very prominent national satirists and satirists at their core, part of the reason they resonate, they have such a strong reaction from recipients is because they're truth tellers. They are. They are telling a truth about something that people feel, but instead of speaking to people's heads or their hearts, they're speaking to people's guts. And that is usually why they have such tractions. Colbert is a uniquely gifted satirist who can not just diminish and sort of portray Trump to belittle him for no reason, but actually to portray Trump for what he actually is, to strip away the veneer and the facade of a strong man or somebody that's in control and actually just demonstrate the desperation that's really. That's sort of swirling underneath it.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (42:50)

Yeah. The thin skinned guy behind the curtain. Angelo, always awesome to have you. Thank you very much. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. The one and only Bruce Springsteen just announced a new US Tour for the spring. He's calling it the Land of Hope and Dreams Tour. Meant to be, in part a show of defiance against the, quote, wannabe king Donald Trump. Watch.

Angelo Carusone (43:15)

We are living through dark, disturbing and dangerous times. But do not despair. Calvary is coming.

Mark Elias (43:23)

We will be rocking your town in.

Angelo Carusone (43:27)

Celebration and in defense of America. American democracy, American freedom, our American Constitution and our sacred American dream, all of which are under attack by our wannabe king and his rogue government in Washington D.C. everyone, regardless of where you stand or what you believe in, is welcome.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (43:51)

The cavalry is coming, not a moment too soon. This comes after Bruce Springsteen released an anti ice, anti Trump anthem of sorts called Streets of Minneapolis and dedicated a performance of the Promised Land to Renee Nicole Goode, one of two US Citizens killed by federal immigration agents this year. One more break. We'll be right back. This week's episode of the Best People is with Scott Galloway. In our conversation, we talk about everything, including his call for everyone to resist and unsubscribe. It's a campaign aimed at harnessing the power of we the people to pressure the companies enabling the Trump administration in the most direct ways. But we covered a lot more than that. Take a listen.

Nick Corsinetti (44:36)

We have had very dark moments and every time Americans have come back and our democracy has been stronger for it. And I'd like to think we're on the verge of that. Recognizing that a legitimate Department of Justice, that the Constitution matters, that we need co equal branches of government, that we need people with higher character making decisions on behalf of other people. That we have taken a lot of our institutions for granted and a lot of our freedoms for granted. And it requires more investment for many of those who have not been asked to invest.

Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (45:10)

To watch the entire conversation, you scan the QR code on your screen. It's available now on YouTube or you can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. That does it for us tonight. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes. We are grateful. Not sure if you have the experience to start your dream job.

Nick Corsinetti (45:26)

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Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (45:27)

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Nick Corsinetti (45:29)

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Angelo Carusone (45:34)

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Host (possibly a news anchor or moderator) (45:49)

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