← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"'What’s affordability?' so says the billionaire president"
00:42:36
Donald Trump is no longer even hiding anymore that he doesn’t care about the lives of everyday Americans.
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
This isn't the end of a fight. It's the start of one. Lioness, the critically acclaimed original series from Taylor Sheridan, returns August 2nd only on Paramount. In the new season, hidden networks, foreign operatives and personal betrayals collide while Joe walks the line between duty and family. Don't miss Lioness, starring Zoe Saldana, Michael Kelly. With Morgan Freeman and Nicole Kidman. Streaming August 2nd only on Paramount.
- [00:29]
Nicole
Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg, from a screenplay by David Koepp, starring Emily Blunt, Josh o', Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson and Colman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required. Also in theaters.
- [01:04]
Donald Trump
They always try and blame me for high pressures. I have my first news conference. I win. I have a news conference like a day later and I say, any questions? Why are prices so high? You have to understand, I just got there. They have this term. So here I am, I'm one day in office and the fake news goes, affordability, Affordability. I said, what's affordability? What's that all about?
- [01:34]
Nicole
What's that all about? It's just what you ran on someone doesn't remember very well. Hi again, everybody. It's five o' clock in the East. What's affordability? So says the man who has raked in $2 billion as America's president. Donald Trump, not even trying to pretend anymore, not hiding it at all, that he does not care about the lives of everyday Americans, including those who voted for him. That is how he addresses the issue that comes up in every single survey and every single conversation normal people are having in their normal lives. It is Americans top issue heading into the November midterm elections. The latest Washington Post Ipsos poll finds that more than half, 54% of Americans feel that the economy and prices are the most important issues to them. And yet Trump's strategy is to either say the economy is great, the country's hot, or to put down people's financial and economic concerns. What are your plans for the housing bill, Mr. President?
- [02:33]
Donald Trump
Are you saying, I don't know. I think it's so unimportant. Affordability is a hoax. The word affordability is a con job by the Democrats.
- [02:47]
Nicole
Hoax and a con job. But Trump's indifference on this issue to people's struggles with high prices really is helping to drive his poll numbers down to depths he's never seen before. Recent polls find 60% of all Americans believe Donald Trump is to blame, that his policies have made the economy worse. A whopping 78% believe the Trump administration is not focusing enough on lowering prices. Not good numbers for Donald Trump's party with less than 100 days to go until the midterm elections, as reporting in the Washington Post reveals, Republicans are scared about the lack of enthusiasm among their core voters. Quote, about 1 in 5 reliable Republican base voters are at risk this November, according to the executive director at AFP Action, a conservative. Those voters in Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Montana, New Hampshire and Michigan are either saying they may stay home or are weighing voting for Democrats. That's according to their data, which is based on polling and extensive efforts to engage targeted Republican voters by knocking on their doors. And big surprise, the Post adds this, quote, the voters are primarily worried about inflation and the economy. Donald Trump's dismissive strategy on affordability is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Democratic strategist Liz Smith is back. She's a senior advisor to political organizations, majority Democrats and the also joining us, former advisor to both President George W. Bush and Senator John McCain. Mark McKinnon is here. And president of Media Matters for America Angelo Carazone is back. Liz, you couldn't make this stuff up. I wonder how sticky it is. Or is he so buffoonish that it gets lost in all the noise around his presidency?
- [04:40]
Liz Smith
It's really sticky. Just asked Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump should learn from Joe Biden in 2020 that when you dismiss objective truths and try to tell people, oh, inflation isn't actually real, that voters will think that you're out of touch and reject you. And he is, you know, right now in a where he campaigned yesterday was in Michigan, where we got a big Senate race. And in that district, it's a congressional district that is a big swing district for Democrats. And Michigan is one of the states that's been really hit hard by these tariffs. It does a lot of trade with Canada. Obviously, it has the auto industry that's been hit hard by it. And I think if the Republicans continue down the path of dismissing the economic pain people are feeling, it gives Democrats an opportunity. But Democrats just can't coast on being anti Trump. They have to convert it and do things that Democrats didn't do in 2024 and say, I understand economic pain is real. I understand we need to secure the border. I understand we need to take on corruption and make sure elected officials getting rich in office while you're getting screwed economically. And if we can do that as well as make the point about Trump, then I feel like we have got a good chance in November.
- [06:01]
Nicole
Mark, the Trump reflex, like a twitch, is to call things a hoax that he doesn't like. But it's one thing to describe an FBI investigation which is just completely opaque to all Americans, even sort of the rank and file at the FBI, unless you're on that elite team running the investigation. The economy is not one of them. Grocery prices are not one of them. Gas prices are literally in your face, whether you're filling up or not. You drive through your town and there's the price of gas and it doesn't make anyone smile these days. What do you make of just the tired, limp old smears like, oh, affordability is a hoax?
- [06:38]
Mark McKinnon
Well, that specifically is very problematic because you're telling people that the pain that they're feeling is not real. I mean, you and I have both been in the political communications business for years, or were, and there were a lot of things that we could shape or influence in terms of our communications. But the one thing that you could never spin was the economy and people's own pocketbooks and what was happening to them. The greatest retail campaigner that we've probably seen in our lives was Bill Clinton. And when he had that problem in front of him, what did he say? He didn't try to dismiss it or push it away. He said, I feel your pain. What does Donald Trump says? He says, your pain is imaginary. It's not real. It's the affordability is a hoax. I mean, that is astonishing for a political leader to say about something that's so fundamentally affecting their voters. So I think that, you know, you mentioned enthusiasm gap up the top. That's the key thing, especially in a midterm election. And it's just think about being a Republican candidate when you're the top of your tickets telling people that the economy is not really a big deal. Don't worry about it, it's a hoax. And, oh, by the way, you're on defense on everything, on Iran, on the economy, on inflation. So you've got nothing positive to talk about. And all you can do is basically look at the Democratic socialists and say they're commies.
- [07:52]
Nicole
That is the sum total of their messaging. Angelo, it's more than affordability is a hoax. Donald Trump's extravagant gold leafed obsessions didn't stymie him from being elected in 2016 or 2024, but people were not self reporting the economic strain and despair that they are today. And here's how he talks about grocery shopping. Something everybody, well, not everybody, but someone in every household does. I do it in mine. Here's Trump on groceries.
- [08:31]
Donald Trump
A simple word like that, groceries. It was like it, almost a strange word. I hadn't heard the word in so long. But what could be more beautiful than the word grocery? And we have the prices way down. They talked about the price of groceries and how expensive it was, and I campaigned on it. In all fairness, I never, I haven't used the word grocery. It's like an old fashioned word, a big thing on cost. You know, the new word is affordability. Another word is just groceries word. It's like sort of an old fashioned word, groceries. But groceries is the word that's the most accurate word.
- [09:06]
Nicole
Everything I'm thinking of saying right now, I really can't, shouldn't say on television. So I'm going to restrain myself. But if you wanted to make up a way to make someone sound the most out of touch, the most insensitive, the most detached from the life that just about every person in this country leads, other than your billionaire weirdos who want to freeze their bodies instead of dying, that's what you would say.
- [09:29]
Angelo Carazone
Yeah. And I mean, it sort of captures one of the things we've talked about a bunch, too, which is that his campaign, his political power, his presidency, relies on telling people a story that overrides their personal experience or what they see. And in order to tell them that story, to convince them of it, you need to have, and we've talked about as well, narrative dominance. You need to have an engine around it that reinforces it. And that's what Trump is making a bet on here. He's making a bet on the same machinery that he has been riding for his entire political life so far, is that he can just perpetuate these ideas that the rest of the right wing echo chamber will do their job and that everybody will, will sort of engage in the same fantasy as him. And Fox is doing their part. I mean, they've spent, they spent, you know, 45 minutes in the first days after gas prices went down last month, you know, heralding Trump's success. They spent almost two hours in the subsequent days, they spent 15 minutes talking about it going up to $4 recently. And even then, it's not blaming Trump. They just sort of vaguely referencing it or playing clips of other people talking about it and trying to find a way to spin it. So they're doing their Part, but ultimately, and this is what's been sort of been sort of acknowledged, is that you can't, you can't avoid this people, you can't make people be convinced of this. They go and they experience it. And you know, and Liz made a really said a word that's really significant when she talked about the word convert. Because that's the key here, because you have a bunch of Trump supporters that are all, now they're having that fantasy that they have been participating in now be disabused of. But those are regrets and they don't mean anything until they turn into something else, into some, into converts. They actually have to defect. They actually have to vote against or stay home and not vote for Trump and not be willing to participate in the fantasy, not just complain about it. And that's going to be, that's the political question here. That's incumbent upon Democrats. But the engine around him is failing. And that gets to your observation. The more he continues to lean in on that bet and he's all in on it, the more ridiculous and absurd that he sounds. And then the question is, why are all the Republicans still continuing to participate and perpetuate in it when the rest of the supporters aren't there? The bottom is falling out. He's not at his floor, Biden. He's at Biden's floor right now. And that was when Biden's inflation was 9% and Trump has not had his floor yet. The momentum shows that it's gonna get worse. So that's to me, the real opening. I don't know why Republicans are continuing to perpetuate this fantasy.
- [11:54]
Nicole
Let me read what you guys wrote about Fox and the time they're spending on gas prices. Cause I'm reluctant to cover this because I hope they keep doing this because unlike the Russia investigation and the war with Iran, it doesn't matter what Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham say about the economy. It really is where I hope they spend the most time because they have the least impact. You can't change what someone thinks of the grocery. You can literally have FOX in your ear. You check out, you pop it out. It doesn't matter what they say. But to your point, here's how they're handling this. Fox News paid scant attention to rising fuel costs in the days after July 20, when nationwide average gas prices broke the $4 mark again after dipping slightly below the threshold for a three week period following the US And Iran agreeing to a ceasefire. And the few network figures who did acknowledge the Milestone largely downplayed it again, Angela. I hope they spend all their time lying about the economy because it will help expedite sort of the long overdue collapse of trust which you're seeing in some of their ratings, to be frank. And I don't know if that's just as Trump limps along, they sort of rise and fall with his fortunes. But the economic approach is perhaps, and this is, I hope I'm not proven wrong, but this is to me one of the most cynical things I've seen them do in my lifetime.
- [13:16]
Angelo Carazone
Yeah. And it's on the backs of just a couple weeks ago when they were talking about gas prices falling and sort of celebrating Trump, that wasn't where they were ending the story. They were telling them that this was proof that $3 gas prices were coming. You had people on Fox News telling them that gas prices were going to be below $3 now. Right. By now, I mean, so they weren't just telling people what to feel in the moment. They were selling them on again, another long con that they've been pulling them in. And it's getting more and more ridiculous. And so it's hard even for the Fox guru to go along with it. And normally I would. The question is so what? Right. To your point. But the so what here is that it is the purpose encapsulation of the very engine that he relies on sort of falling apart and breaking down, too. And that then should tell us where we're going. And all the more reason to lean in on, converting and trying to move. As many of these people having this brief moment of clarity, not necessarily sanity, but clarity. And you have a chance to talk to them. So do it. And I think that's the my big takeaway is there's an opportunity.
- [14:16]
Nicole
Yeah. I mean, Liz, let me press you on that. This is AP's reporting on people rewiring their grocery shopping routines and practices, couponing, comparison shopping and cutting back on favorite foods. Our new habits Ahura millions of other Americans as they absorb the biggest jump in grocery prices in a half a century. Buying food to eat at home is 33% more expensive in US cities since the beginning of 2019, according to government figures. In the seven and a half years before that, prices rose 6.4%. And again, these stories are for the non grocery shopping person in a household. Anyone doing the shopping. And I do all mine online so I can actually see what I paid the week before, the day before, the month before, because the app tracks things. And milk, cereal, everything, chicken, butter, everything is through the roof. And everybody knows that.
- [15:16]
Angela Hicks
Yeah.
- [15:17]
Liz Smith
And the story also gets to another piece of this, Right? It's not just about the bottom line. It's about all the other exhausting things that you have to do to find affordable groceries, find three different apps, go to four different stores, plan out different meals. And if you're a busy parent, that's emotional energy, time you don't have. And you add that on top of the stress of feeling like you cannot afford the essentials. And that is something that is going to cause a lot of economic pain in someone's life. And I want to just call out one quote in one of this. I think it was in an AP story from former Michigan Democratic Party chair that I really think goes to sort of the heart of the conundrum facing Donald Trump in this election and Republican candidates is he said essentially, well, gas prices are up, but that's just something we have to deal with because Donald Trump's taking on Iran. And of course we have to take on Iran. And it's like, what the heck are you talking about? Donald Trump ran on two things. I'm going to lower your costs and I'm going to stop dumb wars. And now what the Republicans are trying to say is he's rising your costs because he started a dumb war. And I just do not think that that is going to be a winning message in November. And Republicans are going to have to twist themselves into knots to defend all those contradictions.
- [16:49]
Nicole
Margaret has resulted in an 11 point advantage for Democrats on the vital issue, according to Fox News of quote, what party would do a better job on the economy.
- [17:00]
Mark McKinnon
Yeah. And the problem is that because Donald Trump refuses to acknowledge the pain that people are feeling, that's one problem. The other problem is that all he's talking about are, you know, great metaphors for just how distant and removed he is from people's everyday lives. Because what is he talking about? The ballroom, the arch, the reflecting pool, all these things that are all about Donald Trump, not about voters and what they're feeling. So, I mean, Donald Trump at this point seems to care more about his legacy and building things to himself because he knows that won't happen after he leaves here. So he's got to get as much done as he can. So voters are really, I think, perceiving a disconnect. First of all, he's not talking about the things that they're caring about and he's only talking about himself.
- [17:43]
Nicole
And it's an interesting choice that the arch is how you talk about yourself. Just to put it, most people wouldn't go that direction. But he does. Everyone sticks around. When we come back, another issue that could damage Republicans heading into the midterms. It has to do with what Donald Trump is pressuring RFK Jr. To do. And it's something a vast majority of Americans, including a whole lot of people in the Republican Party, do not support. We have new reporting on that next. Also ahead, new details on how the MAGA friendly bosses at CBS are trying to rebuild 60 minutes. Already we've learned of some of the questionable things they demanded from correspondents. Now, the bizarre way they're going about remaking the iconic, critical and commercially successful show in their own image. We'll bring you that reporting later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere. Watch Disclosure Day at home now with exclusive bonus features. If you found out we weren't alone, if someone showed you, proved it to you, would that frighten you? Well, now the truth belongs to 7 billion people in an original event film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by David Koepp, starring Emily Blunt, Josh o', Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Hewson and Colman Domingo. Find Disclosure Day on major digital platforms now with no subscription required. Also in theaters.
- [19:14]
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- [19:44]
Nicole
Yeah.
- [19:45]
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- [20:18]
Nicole
It's impossible to know who to root for in this story, but we'll bring it to you anyway. Donald Trump is turning up the pressure on Health and Human Service Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. It could backfire on Republicans in a big way. In November, the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Trump is disappointed that RFK Jr isn't doing enough to probe the debunked connection between vaccines and autism and then to dismantle federal guidelines when it comes to childhood vaccinations. In a mid June meeting in the Oval Office, the president vented to Kennedy that he wasn't doing enough. People familiar with the matter say Trump has also made it clear he thinks he has given Kennedy enough time. And Trump is disappointed that the health secretary has not accomplished more in the past year and a half. People said this new reporting comes at a time when measles infections in our country have reached a high we have not seen in 35 years. Donald Trump's push to infect the American people with more conspiracy theory coded medical advice goes against what his own top pollster finds. People want more from that Journal reporting. Quote, longtime Trump pollster Tony Fabrizio last winter found that vaccine skepticism is unpopular with voters, while people were more interested in Kennedy's efforts to improve the quality of food and agriculture. In June, another survey showed more than 80% of adults said they trust health information from their own doctors. Just 34% said they trust health information from Kennedy, according to health research nonprofit KFF. We're back with Liz Smith, Mark McKinnon and Angelo Carason. Angelo, I'm going to find those 33% and give them a big hug, but this is a loser. It's also deadly. Your thoughts?
- [22:05]
Angelo Carazone
Yeah, and it's the same disease that we were just talking about in the first segment, but it's just in a different organ. Right. It's that he believes that you can tell a story and it will discount people's lived experience. So first time on the economy, he thinks he can tell a story and that people will ignore it when they go to the register. And in this case, he thinks he can tell a story about vaccines and people will ignore it when they when we're having the worst measles outbreak in a generation. And that is the gamble that he's telling. Now, there's a larger political question here. You know, conspiracy becomes policy. I find it kind of amazing that this is the one time the people around him in his own administration are trying to temper him and he's completely disregarding that reality of it. But I think to me it is a reflection of how we're going to see him operate time and time again. It not just tells us where we are in the moment, but also indicates where we're going to go in the future, that this is what he's going to consistently gamble on. And if it was just words or politics, it wouldn't matter. But because the conspiracy is now policy, it, as you noted, has real world consequences.
- [23:07]
Nicole
I guess the piece that's disappointing, Liz, and I should say, I'm sorry, I haven't said it yet. There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism. So he's manufacturing a lie. And we covered at the end of the last hour new reporting from my colleagues at Ms. Now that there are questions about whether intelligence has now been manipulated or manufactured to support the lie that somehow the 2020 election was rigged against Donald Trump. This Wall Street Journal reporting walks up to the cliff over which is Donald Trump wanting medical information to support the lie that vaccines cause autism.
- [23:43]
Liz Smith
Yeah, it's obviously very troubling. I have a almost three year old at home and for any parent of young kids or anyone with immunocompromised people in their household, the thought of declining vaccination rates is fairly terrifying. And one thing though I do think that we should think about is what this means politically because a lot of people are listing vaccines or vaccinations is like their top, top political issue. But I do think that there is an opportunity for Democrats to go in on this issue and appeal to the Maha voters or Maha curious voters and take the parts of the Maha agenda that were actually popular. Getting additives out of food, getting pesticides out of water. And a great example of that is Jamie Ager in North Carolina. He's a farmer running in a big battleground seat. And he talks about regenerative, regenerative farming and things like that. And that is a key part of his pitch. And a lot of candidates running right now in these battleground districts are parents. They are outsiders. They have a unique ability to speak to this issue because they are personally have a lot of skin in the game. But beyond just the political implications, I do think it's really troubling because this is something that will have effects beyond November. You know, vaccine skepticism is in itself a disease and when you start expressing doubts about vaccines, it spreads. And it's something that could have really negative impacts for public health for years to come.
- [25:29]
Nicole
Yeah, I mean, Mark, the vaccine schedule is aggressive and watching your little tiny kid get jabbed is traumatic. And so you don't have to be a full on vaccine denier or truther. You just have to have that little kernel of doubt like oh, what's the big deal? And then suddenly you're in the emergency room with something that is preventable and really dangerous for really, really little kids. So you don't have to tune out the most sort of extreme messages. This affects wide swaths of Americans. And on this MAGA point or MAHA point, I mean, they haven't delivered on getting pesticides out. I think we've gone in the other direction. They haven't delivered on a lot of the making food healthier things. There's been talk there are a lot of shirtless, no offense to anyone, shirtless in their age bracket, but there are a lot of social media posts with them shirtless, doing exercises, and not a lot of deliverables for people who thought they were Trump voters because of the MAHA vision.
- [26:33]
Mark McKinnon
Well, you just have to shake your head at the notion of Donald Trump going into Bobby Kennedy and saying you're not being nutty enough. But to Liz's point, the thing that strikes me about that is that the one sort of thread or lane that Bobby Kennedy I think had a lot of potential to reach voters across the spectrum was on the whole food additives and healthier foods. I mean, I think there's a real play there, legitimately and politically that would appeal across the board. And for Trump to come in and say, away from that stuff. Let's get back to the nutty conspiracy crazy stuff that actually kills people. And by the way, we don't need any other sort of direct, obvious vaccine evidence than what's happening with measles. I mean, you just have a clear cause and effect. You take away the vaccine, measles go up, and it's now, you know, at a rate, I think that's higher than it's been in 50 years. So that's what happens when you don't pay attention to science. And I don't. It's interesting that Liz says that, that polls highly, because I don't get it. I mean, I understand sort of the, the spread of the conspiracy notion, but, you know, for any parents out there that really think about the health of their kids, it just, it's, it just kind of baffles me.
- [27:52]
Nicole
Angela, these are the facts on measles right now. These are numbers from the CDC. There have been 2,318 cases of measles reported nationwide, exceeding the 2,289 cases reported last year. The current figure is the highest incidence of measles in 35 years. So again, by numbers from their own administration, there are more people sick with measles. Than we have had in this country in four decades.
- [28:24]
Angelo Carazone
I think that one of the things that I would note here is that it's because a lot of people started taking action. And what Trump is activated about is that this constituency that, you know, wouldn't take these vaccines was pushing, you know, that vaccine hesitancy has been growing. Trump has consistently built an organized power on what used to be considered the fringes. And, you know, if you can tap into that kinetic energy, you can build political momentum one way or another. And so there is sort of this, like, instinct that he's sort of tapping into there. But I think, to Liz's point, and it's worth noting, you know, Maha, broadly is going to be one of the most durable parts of maga's political power. Whether or not it stays MAGA aligned is an open question, but it's going to be durable and there's a lot more to it. And the vaccine hesitancy people are just a small part of it, but they tap into a larger story, which is that the entire industry, there's something off about all these industries and they need to be dealt with. And, you know, it's worth noting that we're talking about this measles outbreak, but, you know, which could be far afield from people that feel like they're safe and satisfied and they're vaccinated. But, you know, it's not the diarrhea lettuce, and it's part of the same department and incompetency and administration. So there is a real, again, similar to the first discussion, the more he consistently tells these stories, and we should note that it's for a reason, it's to activate the fringes. And there's real powerful consequences when he's able to successfully do that, when he's able to tap into them, the QANON people, all these things is what he's done historically. But there's real moment, too, because he's not able to then feed the beast, that he's sort of waking up. And that's where the tension starts to mount and where there is a real space to act.
- [29:54]
Nicole
Yeah, it is interesting. In everyone's normal life, the conversation quickly turns to are you eating salad this summer? And the latest unreliable information about the source of the massive, as you said, diarrhea lettuce outbreak. Liz Smith, Mark McKinnon. I keep thinking that you can't make this up. And today confirms that. Thank you for starting us off. Angela sticks around a little bit longer. When we come back, there's brand new reporting on how the MAGA friendly bosses at CBS are going about remaking the once iconic news program 60 Minutes. We'll bring you that reporting next.
- [30:38]
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- [32:01]
Nicole
There is brand new reporting out today about how CBS News executives are now racing to clean up their own Mess at 60 Minutes, where news director Barry Weiss has been accused of editorial interference and tipping the scales to favor Donald Trump. Oliver Darcy shares details about the chaos happening behind the scenes from an off the record meeting that 60 Minutes executive producer Nick Bilton had with the White House communications office last week, to the bizarre way they are trying to replace legendary 60 Minutes correspondents who have resigned or been fired with, quote, dozens of screen tests conducted in recent weeks, some featuring, quote, mock interviews with the person playing Ghislaine Maxwell, the disgraced socialite and close Jeffrey Epstein, associate with whom Weiss has long wanted to secure an interview, Oliver Darcy adds this quote. Bilton, meanwhile, has yet to share his vision for the future of the show with staffers since taking over and that many members of the already disgruntled team are, quote, likely to learn about the network's recruitment efforts, among other things, from this very newsletter. Let's bring in the founder of Status, the author of that newsletter, Oliver Darcy. Angelo Carazone is back with us as well. Oliver, I know this is a story developing today, so just bring us up to speed.
- [33:19]
Oliver Darcy
Yeah, they've actually we broke news earlier today just a few hours ago that they've hired some new correspondents. And one of them, you know, if your viewers care about the direction that 60 Minutes is heading in from an editorial perspective, is the New York Times columnist, the conservative Ross Duthat is how you say his name, as well as some others that were, you know, were previously reported. Trevor Phillips, who's had some issues with comments about Muslims in the past, and then a couple, you know, respected journalists, Sebastian Junger and Gianna Tabani. But I think there is concern inside 60 Minutes today about the fact that they are bringing on a New York Times opinion columnist who, you know, is a conservative opinion journalist to be a correspondent on 60 Minutes. Remember, Nicole, these are supposed to be the most prestigious jobs in all of television news, and this lineup really does not speak to that. And these people, you know, particularly Ross, doesn't have television experience, and that's a thing that keeps coming back. You have a network in CBS News that is run by a lot of people who do not have any broadcast television news experience, starting from Barry Weiss. But even Nick Bilton, the executive producer, isn't really a broadcast TV news guy, and that is causing some concern within 60 Minutes as well.
- [34:44]
Nicole
Oliver, I know you reported on Friday about Cecilia Vega's comments about the specific incidents of political interference from Bari Weiss. When you look at the crop of people that she's recruiting and you look at the specific allegations from Cecilia Vega, do you draw any conclusions about whether these are people who might be more receptive to the things that Cecilia Vega thought was uncalled for and inappropriate political interference?
- [35:14]
Oliver Darcy
Well, certainly installing a conservative opinion journalist to be a 60 Minutes correspondent does not pour any cold water on the caricature that's been painted at Bari Weiss. I think more broadly, Nicole, one of the reasons we're seeing this lineup is, I mean, these weren't Bari Weiss's top choices. She was going after people like Andrew Ross Sorkin to be on CBS News. She's gone after a lot of big names and they've all turned her down. And I think the reason is that no one trusts Bari Weiss and they also are skeptical of her politics and her experience. And so she's had a lot of trouble recruiting talent to the network. And I think that's how you end up with this name. And people also are wary. You know, they've seen what Scott Pelley has said. They've seen what Cecilia Vega has said. They've seen what Sharon Alfonse has said. They've seen Anderson Cooper resign from his position at 60 minutes, and they really don't want to touch the network. I mean, I was doing reporting yesterday about the management they're trying to bring in at 60 minutes, and they've been turned down by people on that front as well. So it's not just the correspondents they're having trouble recruiting. They're also having some difficulty recruiting people to run the show. And so, you know, this all comes back to Bari Weiss. People really just don't want to work for her for a variety of reasons.
- [36:34]
Nicole
Well, I mean, one of them is what Cecilia testified to. I mean, Angela, let me just read this again. I don't care what your politics are, if you're asked to do this, this isn't right or left. This is propaganda. And this is based on an audio recording of what Cecilia Vega said on stage when being interviewed by ABC's John Quinones. She said, quote, she was encouraged to include footage of protesters violently attacking people in the streets whom the demonstrators believed to be ICE officers in plain clothes. But Vegas said her team could, quote, find no credible examples of such behavior at the time. On a separate piece about Donald Trump's Iran war just three weeks into the conflict, Vegas said she was told to introduce the story by saying, quote, who's winning the war? Iran is totally outgunned by the United States and Israel. Vega called it an administration talking point used by the White House. I mean, it is, Angelo. It is an inside look at the sausage making of propaganda. And it says something that people said. Yes, after these stories were made public.
- [37:44]
Angelo Carazone
Yeah, I mean, in the early days of Fox and for a long time, right, they. They kept up a veneer of fair and balanced. I mean, they just kept hammering that away. They wanted to have a little bit of separation. Didn't want to seem like you were actively in cahoots with the administration. And yet that's the selling point of, of. Of what, of what Barry is doing over there, is that they're not just going to fix the network or shift it, that they are actively going to participate and work with the administration. And these are examples of them actively trying to push the narrative that the administration is telling Just like we see, as has been reported, you know, Nick, the EP going to the White House and sort of engaging in these meetings. That's why you can get Pete Hebzitz to get up there and say it's very exciting when the Ellisons finally take over CNN because they're in cahoots. And this is again, to what you were talking about before, why people don't want to work there if you have a reputation, because you're not just thinking about your future professional growth. I mean, the word there is profession. Journalists are professions. There are standards, practices, things that you have to adhere to and align with. And what you see in these instructions, these dictates, are completely antithetical. They're opposite of what the profession would call for. They're political. They're political messaging, political communications. And that's okay. But you can't expect a journalist to sort of continue to keep up the veneer of being a journalist and yet participate in a campaign or a political operation. And that's what she is rapidly turning CBS into in a way that wasn't done to even do it slowly or softly to try to convince people to go along with her. It was a bang and slam operation. And that's going to make it really hard to not just maintain your audience and that credibility, but also to do the kind of recruiting that you need. And those aren't the only examples. There's tons of them. It's not just, you know, Vegas Point. It's what we heard time and again from people that were leaving. They were all having similar experiences. It's policy there.
- [39:36]
Nicole
This moment will end. What happens when it does? Is my question on the other side of a break. All three of us will be right back.
- [39:49]
Angela Hicks
In the room. I think I was not surprised when he insulted me. That happens pretty regularly. What was most surprising to me was the room was filled with a lot of his staffers, his Cabinet, his allies, Republicans in Congress. It was so quiet in the room
- [40:04]
Angelo Carazone
during the President's remarks because of how
- [40:07]
Nicole
much they respect him.
- [40:12]
Angie Hicks
Who's to say?
- [40:13]
Angela Hicks
I think it's effective to remind people in those moments when he is insulting me or when he is criticizing me about the question I asked. I just think in those moments it's important to put the reminder back on the work on the question and on the non answers that we get.
- [40:30]
Donald Trump
You do it very well.
- [40:35]
Nicole
We're back with Oliver Darcy and Angelo Carson. Oliver, I'm happy to see Kaitlan Collins kind of become the shero of Trump 2.0. She just seems to have been made for this moment with a steeliness and a thick skin and an ability to sort of stay centered and not react that I've really never seen before. But I look at her and I look at Bari Weiss, and Caitlin came up in conservative press. I think before she was a White House correspondent for cnn. Bari Weiss was sort of became much more right wing when she left the New York Times. And one of them is standing up for the truth. I guess my point being that I'm not sure how different their personal politics are, but the path they've taken in journalism. I mean, one is literally, in the words of Scott Pelley, quote, murdering CBS for kicks. I guess the other has got this presence of mind to sit in a room full of Trump's allies and listen to himself smear her with the most sort of heinous personal insults and just go back to the question she asked him about his associations with convicted child sex traffickers. It is such a study in contrast.
- [41:49]
Oliver Darcy
Yeah. Well, Nicole, I think a lot of this isn't about politics anymore either. You know, I came up in conservative media. You were the communications director for a Republican White House. We are so beyond talking about politics or policy at this point in time. Like, we are talking about basic civility. And what the president of the United States did from that podium, which was afforded to him by journalists, which is another story in itself, was shameful. And it was way beneath the dignity of the office that Donald Trump holds. And it was such a vile attack that we've refrained from repeating it when we're covering this story because we don't want to give it any oxygen. And so, you know, like, I think when we think about how conservatives are covering the press, I actually think a lot of people who are in conservative media have been a lot tougher on these people because they know who they are and they're disturbed that these people have kind of, they've come up and almost, I don't want to say they've hijacked a lot of what the movement claimed to be or purported to be. You know, exactly. These are people that claim to be pro small government, pro First Amendment. And, you know, you have Donald Trump trying to tear down the First Amendment. You know, they were supposed to be pro free trade. He's, you know, launching tariffs. They were supposed to be pro NATO in the global alliance, and he's trying to attack NATO and talking about invading Greenland. I mean, you go down the list of what conservatives claim they stood for, and Donald Trump really is against all of it. And he is. He is. He is someone that would have been called a rhino back in the day, if you remember that term. And so I think conservatives, actually, people who came up with conservative press, know what this movement purported to stand for at one point in time. And so seeing Donald Trump, they call it out, I think, often a lot more aggressively than some of the people in the establishment press.
- [43:50]
Nicole
That's a good point. Oliver and Angela, thank you so much for spending time with us today. Quick break. We'll be right back with something really special. My guest on this week's episode of the Best People podcast is dear friend of the program Sue Gordon. She's the former top career intelligence official in the first Trump administration. She resigned when she was passed over because she was not deemed sufficiently loyal to Donald Trump. In what became an incredibly moving and inspiring and candid conversation, sue talked about picking herself back up again after losing her husband and her career. And now after facing ongoing health struggles and finding purpose in speaking out about the state of the country. Take a listen.
- [44:36]
Sue Gordon
What can anyone do to me, Nicole? I mean, seriously, I lost my career. Who cares? And I'm still here. And found a new way to try and serve my country. I lost the love of my life, and I can hardly even say that and imagine going on, and yet I'm here. There are a lot of people who don't feel like they can speak because of all the things you and I talked about in this episode. Right. Of realities of their life, a position they have about responsibilities. They feel that I've gotten every single thing I ever wanted or Jim and I ever wanted. I have it all. Oh, I want more, but I have it all. So if I can be unafraid, what can anyone do to me who can come after me? If the president decides after listening to this podcast that, oh, my gosh, he needs an executive order against me, I'm going to say bring it right. Because all I always say is, to the American people, you think I'm the problem. So I think it's changed me in ways that I never, certainly never wanted, probably didn't need. But I'm trying to take advantage of the person I've had to become because I don't get to be who I was.
- [46:14]
Nicole
The conversation, the entire conversation with sue is just remarkable. To listen to the whole thing, scan the QR code on your screen or download the Best People wherever you get your podcast. Thank you for letting us into your homes. We are grateful.
- [46:28]
Angie Hicks
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie, when you use Angie for your home projects. You know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair done well. Kitchen sink install done well. Deck upgrades done well. Electrical upgrade done well. Angie's been connecting homeowner with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project@angie.com.