← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
“Why Donald Trump wants you to buy Dell computers”
00:43:19
May 28, 2026; 5pm: Nicolle Wallace covers another chapter in the Trump grift, urging cash-strapped Americans to buy Dell computers. Donald Trump is personally invested in Dell to the tune of at least a million dollars. Nineteen days after Trump asked Americans to buy from Dell, the government inked a nearly $10 billion dollar contract with the company.
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- [00:01]
Nicole Wallace
This Friday.
- [00:02]
Brendan Ballou
From focused features and the producers of Darkest Hour comes the untold true Story of D Day. Facing the wrath of nature and with
- [00:09]
Nicole Wallace
the largest seaborne invasion in history at
- [00:11]
Brendan Ballou
stake, the fate of the war rests
- [00:13]
Nicole Wallace
on the shoulders of two extraordinary men.
- [00:15]
Brendan Ballou
One impossible decision.
- [00:16]
Podcast/Ad Announcer
Featuring powerful performances from Andrew Scott, Brendan
- [00:19]
Brendan Ballou
Fraser, Kerry Condon and Damian Lewis, the Untold True Story of D Day only
- [00:25]
Nicole Wallace
in theaters this Friday. Rated PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13. Experience it in Dolby Cinema.
- [00:31]
Cyndi Lauper
I'm Cyndi Lauper with fellow Cosentyx advocate chef Michelle Bernstein.
- [00:36]
Nicole Wallace
We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [00:44]
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- [01:32]
Brendan Ballou
I want to thank the Dell family. It's a great family. He is amazing. She is amazing. They, they've done such a job, such a job on that. They put up a lot of money, too. Put up 6 billion, 250 million. That's somebody. And he started making computers on his bed in college and selling them because they were better than other computers. And he just I said, how did you do that? He said, well, I did it and I just never stopped.
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Podcast/Ad Announcer
It just kept going.
- [02:01]
Brendan Ballou
So go out and buy a Dell. They're great.
- [02:07]
Nicole Wallace
Meet computers on his bed. Go buy one. Hi again, everybody. It's five o' clock in New York. That should never be normal. But there's a reason Donald Trump strung together those nonsensical words and near sentences. Donald Trump telling people to, quote, go out and buy one. A Dell, a Dell computer. It's because it's a company that he's personally invested in to the tune of at least a million dollars. And while he's urged using his office, the office of the American presidency, to urge you to Quote, go out and buy one, this thing that he made on his bed to buy from his preferred companies. The federal government, which he sits atop, is simultaneously handing companies like Dell massive government contracts. Yesterday, 19 days after Donald Trump urged cash strapped and stressed out Americans to buy his political patrons computers, the federal government inked a nearly 10 billion with a B dollar contract with, wait for it, Dell. Of that, CNBC reports this quote, the Department of Defense announced a five year, roughly $9.7 billion deal with Dell to provide a suite of software to the US military. It comes after Michael Dell, the founder and CEO of Dell Technologies, pledged $6.25 billion which Trump mentioned there to fund investment accounts for children known as Trump accounts. Navy spokesperson told reporters this, quote, the vendors were all evaluated based on competition. Sure. And overall chain of value to the department. Going through the process of evaluation, they came out on top. They just happened to come out on top. I guess the timing seems suspicious to you. Just wait, there's more. Forbes reports that back in February, Donald Trump purchased between 1 and $5 million in Dell stock. As of Tuesday, when FORBES compiled the numbers, that stock had gone up by 142% with a median value gain of $4.3 million. They ranked it the number one best stock trade that Donald Trump made. Now that number is likely to get bigger to rise. Dell stock has gone up more than 4% since the Pentagon announced a deal with Dell, which came after Trump told everyone to, quote, go out and buy a Dell computer, the one that he made, quote, on his bed. I'm sure it was in his paper that he made it out of his bedroom, but we'll save that for another day. Trump is the only president in modern history who's done this, who's traded like this. Every president since Gerald Ford has placed their assets in a blind trust to avoid even the appearance of corruption. Every president until Donald Trump. The Trump Organization says that outside brokerage firms make the trades with no involvement from Donald Trump, his family or the organization. Okay, so it's a coincidence that he tells the country to go out and buy the computers. Okay. While Trump allies are being awarded contracts that benefit Donald Trump personally and financially, Americans, on the other hand, are facing more and more pressure from the Trump economy. Trump's war with Iran is jacking up yet another measure of inflation. On that, the New York Times reports this quote, a measure of inflation closely watched by the Federal Reserve, accelerated in April to a three year high. The Personal Consumption Expenditures Index rose 3.8% from the same time last year. It was the fastest annual pace since May of 2023, when the Fed was in the midst of raising rates to tame a burst of inflation that had emerged in the wake of the pandemic. A measure of underlying inflation that strips out volatile food and energy prices also notched a multi year high. That measure, core inflation, increased at the annual pace of 3.3%, the fastest it has risen since November of 2023. Donald Trump continuing to brazenly and publicly enrich himself while the American people can barely afford groceries and gas is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. Norm Eisen is back with us. He served as special counsel for ethics and government reform in the White House under President Barack Obama and was co counsel for the House Judiciary Committee during the first impeachment trial of Donald J. Trump. He's now a senior fellow at Brookings and the executive chair of the Democracy Defenders Fund. Also joining us, Brendan Ballou. He's the founder of the Public Integrity Project and a former special counsel in the Department of Justice. Also joining us, political analyst, host of the Bulwark podcast. Tim Miller is here. He's with me at the table for the whole hour. I start with you.
- [07:09]
Tim Miller
This is wild. The Dell story is the kind of story, I was thinking about this when I was reading it yesterday that like, you know, it's kind of lame to do this at this point. But if like you imagine any other politician, one of our former bosses or a Democrat, so Joe Biden or Barack Obama having a corruption story at this level, it is the front page of the New York Times. It's leading the nightly news. People are talking about it for weeks. There are investigations. There are questions about it at the White House briefing, their questions about it at the Hill. We're talking about it right now. But I feel like this Dell story is like somewhat getting lost in mid awash of all the other corruption, which is kind of the real story that the scale of his corruption is so great it's like very hard to get your arms around. And that's not even so much of media criticism is just an analysis of just how outrageous and over the top the corruption is. The Dell story for Trump to have purchased this. My colleague Joe Perdicone wrote about this at the Bulwark. The amount of stock trades he made in the first three months this year, the total amount of money was more 3,700 trades. Yeah. And the number was some number in the eight figures.
- [08:13]
Nicole Wallace
There was so many trades. I don't trade. But it was so Many that they looked automated, it looked like a computer had made them because seem like more than people that trade would make.
- [08:21]
Tim Miller
Or maybe they just have a team of guys in Mar a Lago who are just doing this in the Uday and Koussi drawing room. I don't know how they're doing it, but it was more money and more trades than all of Congress in the Senate. Right. Like, there's this big conversation happening about how we have the Stock Trade act, we should ban trades for Congress, and I don't care. That seems like the right thing to do. All this conversation About Nancy Pelosi, 12 months, 535 members, the entire year of 2025, they did less in total than Donald Trump did in the first three months of this year. That's the scale of his investing. Then you have this example where you have millions being made on a company that he is at the White House promoting, and then that the government provides a massive multibillion dollar contract to. It's not even subtle. It's nothing that's subtle. There's another story out today from ProPublica. Some other company got a defense contract that Don Jr. S on the board of. And what ProPublica reported is they have two sources saying that the White House and we know this is happening, but it's good to have a source that's saying that this happened. The White House called the Department of War and said, hey, you got to do this contract. And it's for a company that Don Jr. Is invested in. So what they are doing is so far beyond. Think about all of the time spent on Pelosi and the Pelosi tracker. And this is not to endorse, I don't know what exactly was happening there, anything that she did with investments. The scale of this is so, so far beyond that that it's really kind of challenging to contextualize it for people.
- [09:52]
Nicole Wallace
Well, Trump helps us, right, Norm? I mean, Trump standing in the Rose Garden saying Dell and Trump, who multiple news outlets have reported, simply writes things on things that are printed out for him. So I'm not sure he's the best Consumer Reports evaluator of any computer. But whatever Trump says this about Dell computers, quote, they Dell have done such a great job. He made computers on his bed. That's as close as Trump is going to come to like a personal endorsement of a computer. It happens in the Rose Garden. They are acting and I guess this is in their defense, what the Republicans in Congress have ushered in. They're acting with impunity. To literally grab, smash and grab taxpayer dollars, shove them into their own coffers because the Republicans in Congress have allowed them to.
- [10:46]
Norm Eisen
That's right, Nicole. When I was in the White House and we would have an issue, I would regularly get calls from Democratic senators who would say, look, I've got to speak out about this. The complete abdication, where you don't have any meaningful legislative oversight. They've given up their power to deal with this is like nothing we've ever seen in the history of our country. It really hearkens to other authoritarian regimes where you have this kind of naked run on the bank by the leaders. And it's not just that the American people hate corruption, and they do. They list it as the top issue in poll after poll. It's that this is a Trump tax that all of us are paying. You know, when government is broken in this way, it directly drives up the costs for the American people. And I think you're going to see that this administration and its cronies and allies pay a very steep price for this. When at the contrarian, we did our latest list of the top 10 Trump corruption scandals, the stock trades were only number four. The challenge was, how do you pick just 10? And I do think they break through, whether it's financial corruption like the Dell trade that we're talking about,
- [12:36]
Tim Miller
or whether
- [12:36]
Norm Eisen
it is the corruption of the rule of law that we're seeing over and over again. The drumbeat of it is loud. People are noticing, and there'll be a stiff price to pay, including, because we're feeling it in our pocketbooks.
- [12:57]
Nicole Wallace
Let me read to you. This is a little tedious, but it's important. Brendan. This is Forbes reporting on Trump's most beneficial and suspicious stock purchases. So cadence. He purchased 1 to $5 million in stock on March 17. The stock went up 30%. Median value gained $900,000. In July 2025, this chip software company pleaded guilty to selling software to a Chinese military university in violation of U.S. export controls, paying a fine of $140 million. Trump owned a small stake. He took office, sold it in January, then bought it back. Oracle. He buys 1 to 5 million. On March 17, it goes up 25%. He gains median value, gains 750,000. Makes 17 Oracle trades between January and March. Synopsis. He buys 1 to $5 million. On February 10, the stock goes up 22%. Median value gain of $650,000. Apple advised 1 to 5 million. On March 2, that stock goes up 16%. The median gain is $500,000. It's happening in plain view, Brendan. And I think we make a mistake to separate out the stories. We led the last hour with the criminal investigations into E. Jean Carroll and other potential Democratic donors. The idea is not just to hijack the Department of Justice and prevent it from prosecuting people who commit actual crimes, but to weaponize it and turn it against anyone who would hold him accountable. And it seems that these two pieces, the financial grift and corruption, go hand in hand with the dismantling of the Department of Justice.
- [14:45]
Brendan Smith
I'm so glad that you put it that way, because I think you're exactly right. In some sense, this is all one big story. When you're talking about the massive corruption, when about you're talking, when you're talking about the weaponization of government, when you're talking about things like the Epstein files, it's all one story, which is if you are sufficiently loyal to this president or sufficiently subservient, you will be put beyond the reach of the law and you will be financially rewarded. And conversely, if you fight him, if you stand up to him, if you resist him, the full force of a weaponized Justice Department will be deployed against you. I'm glad that you talked about all these different trades because they can be sort of overwhelming. And it's easy to forget that, you know, a week and a half ago we had the launch of the $1.8 billion slush fund. You know, Norm and I are tag teaming this in multiple litigations and hopefully we're going to get some great court decisions there. But I think it's really important for shows like yours to keep talking about this and for viewers to keep paying attention to this stuff because it has a very practical impact. You know, the more attention that's paid to these sorts of things, the more it is going to empower civil litigators to take on these cases and for judges to accept them and to hold the government accountable. The more likely it is that state and local prosecutors and state AGs are going to think about the state and local angle for some of these cases, and the more likely it is that a future prosecutor, a future Department of Justice that actually cares about the rule of law, will start bringing criminal cases in situations like this. So I really wouldn't underestimate for viewers the value that they play in paying attention here.
- [16:17]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, there's the legal and the civic import of these stories. There's also the drip, drip, drip of the political sort of bottom falling out of his coalition. I mean, his voters are pissed and they're pissed about the price of gas, they're pissed about the cost of living, they're mad about the war in Iran. But this stuff makes them mad as well. This is not a story of the partisan divide. There's a partisan divide in terms of how much of this shows up on Fox. I've not been monitoring it, but I'm guessing they didn't lead their 5 o' clock hour with this story. But it is seeping in.
- [16:53]
Tim Miller
Yeah. And I think this is gonna be a big obligation for the Democrats in 2027 if they take over to make it seep in more. Right. Cause I think that there's some of it that's seeping in. And Trump is doing the Democrats a huge favor on a lot of this stuff with just, like, the ridiculousness of some of the things. I don't know if this is on the rundown later, but have you seen the $250 bill he's looking to put his face on? Trump's looking to. This is not an Onion story. They're looking into doing a $250 bill with his face on it. So between that and the bar, all this stuff does break through to people in a way that, like, the Dell story is a little more challenging, too, because it's dense. And so, look, I think that there's just more work to do on this stuff. I was watching. I did that thing. If you're at a jubilee, it's like you're sitting in a circle and 20 people you're debating. On this week's one, it wasn't me. It was another person who was fighting 20 Maga people, and he was talking about these stories of the corruption, the crypto corruption and Jared Kushner and the Saudi, and just. They didn't know. A lot of the people just didn't know about it. Like, they were ready with talking points to defend Trump on other stuff. But on the corruption stuff, they didn't know because it's not being covered. And so I think that at some level, it's like they're not covering it for a reason. Right. Because the MAGA outlets know that this stuff even makes their people mad. If they're struggling financially, it's one thing. If Trump's doing something crazy, that's making the libs mad and it's making Nicole Wallace. You know what I mean? Then they're like, okay, Trump can do silly stuff and it's worth it. Cause it's making the people we don't like mad. But it's like Trump's doing all this stuff to enrich his kids and his son in law and his buddies and his friends and himself. And we're paying higher bills. Some people will be okay with that because they're in a cult or whatever. But there are some of those supporters that are gonna and that's why his numbers are going down. And I think that there's more room for him to fall because this stuff is so overt. But it is the jo I think of the political opposition to make such a big stink of it that the people that I was talking about, those MAGA folks in that jubilee have no choice but to know that it happened because the news about it is everywhere.
- [18:48]
Nicole Wallace
Is everywhere. All right, we'll show you. We'll dig up some of those stories Tim's talking about. We had to sneak in a break. When we all come back, it's what Tim mentioned. It's not just grift and corruption putting money in Trump's pocket. There is this plan to put Trump in your pocket. If you are one of Those people with $250 bills in your wallet. We'll show you what happened when Trump administration officials hatched that plan to put his face on our money. That's next. Also ahead, CBS News has now fired a veteran 60 Minutes correspondent after her report on the massive Cecop prison in El Salvador was pulled by her MAGA friendly bosses. The shakeup at 60 Minutes and the surprising rebuke the network's from the most unlikely place. We'll show it to you later in the hour. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere today.
- [19:40]
Cyndi Lauper
Parents, have you heard your kids say I'm not a math kid? Well, with Mathnasium, every kid can be a math kid. They customize their math instructions so kids who are struggling are able to catch up and get ahead. And advanced kids are challenged to reach higher. Mathnasium makes math fun, so kids learn to love it. Parents say that Mathnasium has not only improved their kids grades, it's given them a new level of confidence in math and in school overall. Visit mathnasium.com to find a location near you.
- [20:10]
Podcast/Ad Announcer
Subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNOW's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite msnow shows ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series including Rachel Maddow presents Burn order. Subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [20:43]
Nicole Wallace
So if you've taken all this in, as viewers of this program have, and you thought it couldn't get more blatant or obnoxious than the massive arch, the Golden Ballroom, the UFC fighting ring that looks like a roller coaster being built on the White House lawn, as Tim said, Trump is now trying to put his face on your money. Here's what his face would look like on your money. Washington Post reports this Trump administration officials have pressed the office responsible for printing the nation's money to design a $250 bill featuring Trump's portrait, according to four current and former employees. In what would be the first appearance of a living person on US currency in more than 150 years, starting last year, two political appointees at the Treasury Department, U.S. treasurer Brandon beach and his senior advisor Mike Brown, repeatedly urged staff at the agency's Bureau of Engraving and Printing to prepare prototypes of the note, according to the employees, who said the move raised concerns because federal law currently allows only deceased people to appear on Bill's
- [21:53]
Tim Miller
preparation. Maybe it's preparation.
- [21:55]
Nicole Wallace
I didn't know what to do with this story. The director of the printing bureau, someone named Patricia Solomon, and other staff repeatedly explained to beach and Brown that there are legal and procedural obstacles to producing that note and that it would take years longer than they envisioned, the four employees said. Solomon said she was abruptly reassigned from her post by treasury management on April 27, writing the next day in an email to colleagues that she was leaving with a, quote heavy heart. She added that she never sacrificed the values or character of myself or the organization and always prioritized the U.S. currency program and the value each employee brings to the mission. The buck stopped here, she wrote. No pun intended. I mean, when the news reads like the Onion, I literally don't even know what a serious question is. I mean, the buck stopped with putting Trump's face on the buck, but he has to be dead. Like, what is this?
- [22:59]
Tim Miller
Well, a couple thoughts. We were talking about the bruises. You know, I don't know. Maybe there's something there. He doesn't seem to be very healthy, so maybe he's thinking about what might happen to him in the afterlife. I'm not sure. The poor lady, though, that's working there in the currency department, it's like she's just trying to do her job. She's just trying to make sure that everybody gets their money and that it follows the rules and that it's printed and it's like, imagine being that person. You're just a regular bureaucrat, and this comes across your desk. And they're like, the President wants to put his name on a new 250. And you're like, well, that's illegal. And they're like, we don't care if it's illegal. We want you to do it. You're just like, what am I supposed to do here? I'm just a regular public servant trying to do my job. And she now lost her job over this stupid. It's a ridiculous and silly story, but it's also. A person lost their job over this absurd gambit. And he's doing it everywhere. He's trying to put his name on the passports. There's a special passport now with his face on it. Excuse me, his face.
- [23:53]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, am I the only person that only gets the 20s out of the ATM? Like, who takes out $250? Like, what? This is a story that is so. I'm not allowed to use the words that I want to use to describe it. It is so effing insane. But it is important because these. These people. I mean, Dell doesn't pay Trump's salary or besants. We do. And this is the stuff being done in our name, Norm.
- [24:18]
Norm Eisen
Yeah, it's a little bit like that $1.776 billion fund that Brendan and I are litigating. Nicole. As you know, at Democracy Defenders Action and Democracy Defenders Fund, we have over 300 of these legal cases and matters. And if Donald Trump actually tries to go through with the $250 bill, it is an open and shut legal case, and we're prepared to go to court to stop matters, because like our Kennedy center case where he tried to put the name on his name on the Kennedy center, and then the attendance collapsed, so now they're closing it. Or like the toxic dirt dumping from destroying the East Wing, we're litigating these issues. The Epstein files were litigating that. And to Tim's point earlier, those stories do break through. This $1.8 billion fund did break through. The case that we filed on behalf of three dozen former federal judges who were so upset made news around the country and around the world this week. And the Kennedy center case, Epstein files, that is how people understand the corruption. He's put his name on every federal building in Washington, his name and image, and now this. So all you can do is fight it. People want him to put money in their pockets, not to put money in his own. His cronies, his family's, and literally to put his face on the money. That is the opposite of what he was elected to do. I saw a poll today that his white working class support, his core base is now cratering and eroding. So that is the price of having a $250bill with your image on.
- [26:25]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, Brendan, the trick is to not laugh these things off. He is deadly serious. And we talked about doj. There isn't a separate group of people working on retribution while the other people who were focused on crimes and national security can still do that work. It is the same government, and it's a lot smaller than people think. So instead of strengthening the economy or making the federal government more efficient, there are people now seriously working on putting Trump's face on a theoretical $250 bill.
- [27:02]
Brendan Smith
Yeah, I mean, I think the $250 bill is sort of a literalization of this entire administration. You know, this idea that, you know, when you're talking about, you know, for instance, the work of the Department of Justice, what Donald Trump is trying to do is personalize the rule of law instead of having predictable rules and decisions, make everything concentrated in his power, his decision making. I think putting his literal face on a dollar bill sort of, you know, makes that idea very physical. I think if there's one good thing to come out of a story like this, you know, and any of these examples of massive corruption that we've been talking about right now is that, you know, this is both what propels Donald Trump and it is what destroys movements like this. If you look at country after country after country when they have illiberal movements like what America is experiencing right now, the thing that destroys it is the corruption. And so I think focusing on these stories, and especially, you know, like we're all talking about these stories that can actually break through, I think, you know, it goes to Norm's point about, you know, how the base is changing their opinion about it. It makes people realize that Donald Trump does not stand for them and doesn't
- [28:13]
Nicole Wallace
care about them because they're screaming from the rooftops about the economy and the price of gas and the price of groceries and everything else. Brendan and Norm, thank you very much for joining us today. Tim sticks around a little bit longer. When we come back, long time. 60 Minutes correspondent Sharon Alfonsi has been fired from CBS News today. That came after the network's new Trump friendly boss pulled her report on the Trump administration's deportation policies and the now infamous El Salvador prison. It sent migrants to the growing fallout for the once respected news network is our next story.
- [28:55]
Cyndi Lauper
Parents, have you heard your kids say I'm not a math kid? Well, with Mathnasium, every kid can be a math kid. They customize their math instructions so kids who are struggling are able to catch up and get ahead. An advanced kids are challenged to reach higher. Mathnasium makes math fun so kids learn to love it. Parents say that Mathnasium has not only improved their kids grades, it's given them a new level of confidence in math and in school overall. Visit mathnasium.com to find a location near you.
- [29:25]
Podcast/Ad Announcer
Subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts for early access, ad free listening and bonus content to all of MSNOW's original podcasts, including the chart topping series the Best People with Nicole Wallace, why Is this Happening? Main justice and more. Plus new episodes of all your favorite Ms. Now shows. Ad free and ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series including Rachel Maddow Presents Burn order. Subscribe to MSNow Premium on Apple Podcasts
- [29:57]
Nicole Wallace
the MAGA Friendly editor of CBS News, Bari Weiss, is making her biggest moves to date by blowing up the iconic program 60 Minutes. It has been the gold standard in broadcast journalism for decades and decades. It is just the latest move in Paramount chief David Ellison's and Barry Weiss's makeovers of the once highly respected news outlet. A wave of longtime producers and respected editors and correspondents have been pushed out, including the show's executive producer as well as longtime correspondent Sharon Alfonsi. Last December, Alfonsi's report on torture in Salvadoran prisons like Seekot was pulled off the air. It was meddled with by Bari Weiss. We'll let Alphonse tell you herself about what is happening to CBS and its flagship news program. In a letter she sent to her colleagues days ago announcing her departure, she wrote this quote in the coming days, network leadership may attempt to hide behind corporate euphemisms like modernization and restructuring to explain away my departure. Don't be misled. This was not a routine corporate transition. It was a deliberate choice to penalize a journalist for refusing to sanitize factually accurate reporting. And it sends a chilling message to the entire newsroom. Fearless independent reporting has always been the defining standard at 60 minutes. Today, CBS management is abandoning that mission, choosing access journalism over accountability and protecting power rather than scrutinizing it. The wall between editorial independence and corporate interest at CBS is being methodically torn down. Journalists willing to challenge authority are being pushed aside in favor of those who will not. If this continues the result will be a broadcast that looks like 60 minutes but lacks the courage and the character to produce journalism that matters. I want to bring in the executive editor of Deadline.com, dominic Patton, who's been reporting on this story. Also covering this story is Oliver Darcy. He's the author of the newsletter Status, which covers all things media. You've been all over this story. You both have. Just take me inside your reporting on this.
- [32:11]
Dominic Patton
Well, I think the one thing that everyone wants to know is why are they doing this? And we were talking about this during the break. This is the highest rated program on television News, gets like 10 million viewers every single Sunday. It's award winning. They just won two Emmys last night. It is growing on digital. They've had double digit growth, I believe this last season on the show. So why would you do this? Is the question. And the thing that people inside CBS News think, longtime former CBS 60 Minute staffers think. And the only thing that really makes sense to me is that Donald Trump doesn't like 60 Minutes. It's the thing he rants about and raves about on True Social. And he's made it very well known. He sued 60 Minutes, obviously, and they had to settle that lawsuit to get their deal done. Donald Trump does not like 60 Minutes. He's not shy by not liking 60 Minutes. And David Ellison is doing everything he can to ingratiate himself before Donald Trump because he wants to get his mega merger done with Warner Brother discovery. So I don't think it takes a genius to put these, you know, connect these dots together. Donald Trump doesn't like the program. He wants it destroyed. He wants it blown up. Today it's blown up. You can connect the dots for yourself.
- [33:15]
Nicole Wallace
So why does Barry Weiss do that? Why does she fire these two respected journalists? Basically make it untenable for Anderson Cooper to want to be there.
- [33:24]
Dominic Patton
You know, I mean, I think she's doing what David Ellison wants. I don't know. I can't get inside Bari Weiss's head. Everyone wants to know, why is Barry Weiss blowing up the most successful show on TV news? It only makes sense when you factor in Donald Trump. Otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense. Now, she might have her own ideological perspective here, but there are other ways you could do this. They are intentionally blowing this show up. They are firing the executive producer today. They are firing the executive editor of the show today. They are firing Sharon Alfonsi today. They are firing Cecilia Vega today. They are firing other senior staffers today. And then Anderson Cooper of course is leaving on his own accord. Why would you do that if not to signal I think to the White House that this is being taken care of. And by the way they are trying to take over cnn. And according to the Wall Street Journal they have assured David Ellison and Larry Ellison who are the owners of Paramount, they have assured the White House that they will make sweeping changes to cnn. So it's not a mystery, I think what's happening here. This is all in service of one man who is thin skinned in the White House and is trying to control the media. And you have people taking advantage of that to get their business deals done. I think it's pretty clear, I mean
- [34:33]
Nicole Wallace
Dominic, he's at 32% and he's halfway through a lame duck last term. Why are they destroying some of the most precious brands in journalism and media?
- [34:45]
Brendan Ballou
Because Nicole, people are shortsighted and people believe in self interest and to somewhat to what Oliver said. Look, the Ellisons have a big deal. $111 billion deal to buy Warner Brothers Discovery which is among other things the parent company of cnn. They want that deal approved. They are getting through all the regulatory hoops. They're very close, they're very close but they need the audience of one. The little big Viktor Orban as I like to call him. You know, they need his approval on this because he's a fickle beast and whether or not he has enough Big Macs in him or not he's going to approve it or don't approve it. So they are doing everything, you know, in any other realm besides a semi authoritarian one. I mean I'll just be honest with you. In some ways Nicole, you have the wrong guests on Today. You shouldn't have us, you should literally have Viktor Orban. Cuz he could tell you how this is supposed to work. What they are trying to do here is appease something to get to a deal. I'd like to, I'd love to have a time machine and look at what David Ellison's gonna be like next year when he's gotta deal with the Democrats taking over Congress and probably taking over the White House in 2028. Because I have a feeling like a lot of corporate America and I very rarely quote Kamala Harris but I think the former Vice president was very right on this. It was amazing how quickly corporate America capitulated. I'm going to be pretty surprised to see how quickly they bend the other way when the wind starts blowing that way. But right now it's just blow everything up that he doesn't like and keep everything he does like, this would be the equivalent of NBC blowing up the NFL because the president doesn't like football. And that's just bad business.
- [36:20]
Nicole Wallace
Dominic, take me inside your reporting. I mean, the journalists are holding some cards as well.
- [36:25]
Brendan Ballou
Well, actually, they're holding a lot of cards. There's a lot of legal cards that can be played here. And we've been talking about it today on Deadline. Oliver and Status have been talking about to some degree, too. You know, there, there are some pretty big lawyers here. There's one particular lawyer in Hollywood, a man named Brian Friedman who has represented and regardless of what you think of them personally, on any other level, he's represented them well. People like Megyn Kelly when she left NBC, Chris Cuomo CNN and Tucker Carlson when he left fox. There are contracts here. In the case of Cheryl Alfonso, her contract was not renewed. But the nature of the way in which during when her segment on migrants being sent by the American government to harsh, cruel, violent El Salvadorian prisons, the way that segment was spiked after it was approved by everyone, including Bari Weiss, who then had a change of heart. And after Donald Trump made some complaints about CBS earlier that particular week, then it was she was hung out to dry, saying that they didn't do certain things. They didn't, they didn't vet it with the, the proper authorities. They didn't give the administration a chance to reply, et cetera, et ceter. So that's damaging and disparaging to her reputation. So in any other form of employment, you know, you come saying, well, hold on, your past employer says you weren't so great. So she has a reputation to protect in terms of her career. And that is a very valid, valid claim both in the court of public opinion and in the court of law.
- [37:44]
Nicole Wallace
We have no shortage of profiles in courage at this table, but there are there are precious few in and around these stories. We'll show you a surprising one that emerged last night on the other side of a short break. Don't go anywhere. So this happened last night at the Emmy Awards. A student journalist named Santiago Campos, who was awarded the Mike Wallace Scholarship named for the legendary 60 Minutes newsman, said this about what's happening, what we're talking about, what's happening at CBS News.
- [38:22]
Dominic Patton
While I want to thank CBS News for funding this generous gift towards my education, I want to also acknowledge how the recent direction of the outlet stains the legacy of Mike Wallace, the namesake of this scholarship. As corporate elites take. As corporate elites take hold over the very pipes through which our information flows. Journalism that serves the people becomes increasingly harder to come by, yet ever more crucial. And what the people want is the truth. So if at any time you hesitate to utter the word genocide or remain silent in the face of blatant lies, remember to ask yourself, who is this for? I hope you choose us.
- [39:19]
Nicole Wallace
You'll see that a lot. Dominic, Oliver and Tim are back in a room full of people. It was the student recipient of the award that uttered those words.
- [39:31]
Tim Miller
Yeah, that kid's got moxie. I got an internship on the Bulwark Podcast if he's looking. If he needs to dump the CVS baggage, he can call us. Look, it was impressive, and it's impressive in the context of. That's kind of what Oliver was talking about. There are some good people that work at CBS still. They're good journalists. They'll do good stories. They'll still do good reporting. This is all happening in this broader context, and you can't just look at it in a myopic way. And I think that that's what Santiago is getting at. Donald Trump shook down the network because he wanted more favorable coverage. He shook down the network. He got a payoff. He got a new person in charge of the network that was more friendly to him. And everyone that signs up signs up for being part of that corrupt deal.
- [40:13]
Nicole Wallace
That's right.
- [40:15]
Tim Miller
Even if they have personal integrity or a good journalist. Now, the whole thing is rotten. And we're going to continue to see at times probably waxing and waning, but little movements and little favors and little sanding down the edges to make sure that Donald Trump stays happy. That's what's happening with the network. The thing that's interesting to me is this was already a thing on Decline Television, and they're doing good on digital, at least on 60 minutes, but they're putting the gas on their decline a little bit. And so it'll be interesting to monitor that. The timing of all this, a very unpopular war in Iran, a very unpopular president to put in a new leadership team in CBS that wants to kind of paint the best picture of a very unpopular war and a very unpopular president, I don't think is the path to new viewership.
- [41:00]
Nicole Wallace
Well, the other piece of this, Tom's point, is this is the most overserved segment of the media. Right. Like, you've got Fox and all of its people copying Fox, and a lot of them go farther to the right, Some of them go a little bit to the left. But that birthed a bunch of new outlets. Now, you've got CBS seeming to want to compete with Fox trying to take some of their views. This is the most overserved media audience in the country. There is no business rationale for what they're doing. So other than appeasing Trump and being part of an appeasement project, what do they think they're doing?
- [41:37]
Dominic Patton
I think they're appeasing Trump. I mean, I don't know what the leadership thinks they're doing. I think maybe they're naive and think that they can steal some viewers from Fox. It's not going to work. We've seen this happen and been tried a million times. It never works. You cannot take down Fox. Like those viewers are glued to the television screen like eight hours a day. Eight hours would be not even generous enough. 6am till 11pm Maybe through Gutfeld or whenever that show ends, they are watching that channel, they're not gonna switch the channel. And I wanna say one thing about that kid. Cuz it took a lot of backbone for him to get up on that stage and say that he's a student journalist, he's not working anymore. Where are the journalists whose job it is to hold power, to account, to speak true to power, saying those things? They, I guarantee you everyone in that room thinks what that kid is saying. That's why they all applauded him. Where are they? I think a lot of people still are being very quiet and choosing to not say anything in this time because of the climate of fear that we're living in. Whether it's in Hollywood where Mark Ruffalo is one of the only people that's, you know, loudly speaking out against this deal, even though a lot of people definitely agree with him, or whether it's in the news business or this student journalist who's winning this award uses his time to deliver these important remarks. I think there's a lot of questioning about.
- [42:50]
Tim Miller
Can I say one more thing about Santiago? Because I could imagine a Republican or conservative watching that and saying, oh, that didn't take that much courage. Actually. It's a liberal room and he's playing to the audience. Like if you're a young person going into the news business, that's risky. If you're an editor of a big outlet, are you going to want to hire somebody that feels like they might be a little bit of a loose cannon? You should go on set. You should. But a lot of places won't want to. A lot of places will look at that and think that person's a loose cannon. I don't want to hire Them. So that was a very risky. That person has their whole career in front of them, making a huge career risk. A lot of people have had a lot more success not taking a risk at all.
- [43:26]
Nicole Wallace
I would argue the other way around. I mean, people clap because everyone in the room agreed that what CBS is doing is a stain on Mike Wallace's record. And I would run to hire the one person saying out loud what hundreds, perhaps thousands of other people think. Dominic.
- [43:40]
Brendan Ballou
Oh, absolutely. Look, I mean, Tim's offered him a gig right there. I mean, if we, you know, give us a call, like. Because I think also, you know, I'm just going to say it. There are three white guys and a white lady talking about this. Santiago, not a white guy. Like, he's already. He's already having to take a lot of hits in a world that's not that easy for people to take hits in. And he said, truth to power. And he's put himself out there. His journalism career could end. There are a lot of people who won't say anything because they've invested years and years in this industry. They've got their mortgages, they've got their kids. All power to them. We've all got that. And they feel trapped by this. But the reality is, it's that old session. What are you going to tell your children when this is over? What side were you standing on? How were you standing? How tall were you standing? The reality is, is today I've seen dozens and dozens of people from cbs and, you know, Oliver said, and Tim said to lots of good people there. And that's true. But putting out these, these texts and posts, whatever, like, oh, great, love to have you here. This and that. Kind of like it's a rah rah team. And this is a tried and true playbook of just getting people to line up and do what they're told. And it's not going to work. And as you said, as we've all said, it's bad business, for God's sake. CBS and the evening news has finally had a decent week. We're getting over 4 million viewers after being a disaster since its retooling under Bari Weiss. And they literally, the day after that, stepped on their own good news to do what's going to be a face plant by any stretch of the imagination going forward. So honestly, they're not very good at their jobs. So maybe the Ellisons, if they can just get over the wanting to get Big Daddy's approval, just get past these people and get some people actually know how to do their jobs, do the news.
- [45:22]
Nicole Wallace
Dominic Patton, thanks for joining us. Oliver Darcy, thank you for being here. Tim Miller, thank you for spending the whole hour with us. Quick break. We'll be right back. We are keeping an eye on the Texas Senate race after Democratic candidate James Talarico learned who his opponent would be on Tuesday night, then held a packed campaign rally in Houston on Wednesday. On this week's episode of the Best People podcast, I got to talk with Pod Save the World's Ben Rhodes about what he sees in Talarico.
- [45:54]
Dominic Patton
Listen, Talarico. James Talarico in Texas. He's telling people again, the best I thought about, like, what do the best speeches do? It's when someone, again, doesn't just tell you what they want to do, they tell you why they want to do it. And so when Talarico talks about his faith and he talks about how that informs the way in which he thinks we need to care about one another and see one another, I know why he's in politics because of the story he's telling. And that's very powerful.
- [46:25]
Nicole Wallace
Ben names more names in this episode. So listen to the entire conversation by just scanning the QR code on your screen right now or download the Best People. Wherever you get your podcasts, let me know what you think on Blue sky or Instagram. One more break. We'll be right back. Thank you so much for letting us into your homes tonight. We are grateful.
- [46:49]
Cyndi Lauper
I'm Cindy Lauper with fellow Cosentyx advocate chef Michelle Bernstein.
- [46:55]
Nicole Wallace
We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis with psoriatic arthritis and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection.
- [47:03]
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