← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Why local leaders are not letting up"
00:41:16
Nicolle Wallace on the announcement of a drawdown in the number of federal agents on the ground in Minnesota.
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- [00:01]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
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- [00:16]
Jacob Soborough
CIDP can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? With a self injection for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, you have the option to treat at home. Discover more@cidpselfinjection.com and talk to your doctor. That's cidpselfinjection.com brought to you by Argenics.
- [00:48]
Nicole Sganga
Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. There are new developments today for the city at the beating heart of our country's struggle between democratic norms and autocratic practices. A resistance that ranges from protesters on the streets and observers of federal operations, all the way to state and local leaders coming up against a Trump administration employing brutal tactics on the streets of Minneapolis, whose claims really rarely match up with the reality. Border czar Tom Homan today announced a drawdown in the number of federal agents.
- [01:21]
Jacob Soborough
That in Minneapolis I have announced, effective immediately, we will draw down 700 people. Effective today, 700 law enforcement personnel.
- [01:36]
Nicole Sganga
To put that into perspective, there are still going to be 2,000 agents roaming the streets of Minneapolis after the drawdown. Typically, There are about 150 agents working on immigration immigration enforcement activities in that area. That reality is why local leaders are not letting up the pressure. Both Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz say that the drawdown is a step in the right direction. But they reiterated that Operation Metro surge needs to come to an end, especially as more and more instances of shocking behavior on the part of federal agents comes to light. On Tuesday, ICE agents were seen drawing their guns and observers who have been following them watch.
- [02:20]
Andrew Weissman
They're pointing handguns at the drivers in.
- [02:22]
Jacob Soborough
The vehicle right now.
- [02:23]
Nicole Sganga
Get out.
- [02:23]
Sam Stein
Get out.
- [02:24]
Nicole Sganga
Hey, hey, hey.
- [02:25]
Claire McCaskill
Get back.
- [02:25]
Sam Stein
You guys need to stand back. You can record, but you got to be back.
- [02:29]
Jacob Soborough
You know. Hey, open your door.
- [02:30]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
I need you to back up a little bit more.
- [02:34]
Andrew Weissman
Hey.
- [02:34]
Sam Stein
Hey, get back.
- [02:35]
Jacob Soborough
Hey, get the back.
- [02:36]
Nicole Sganga
Back.
- [02:37]
Jacob Soborough
Turn around. Any idea? You have any idea?
- [02:43]
Sam Stein
Hey, no, no, no.
- [02:43]
Nicole Sganga
Don't get on the road.
- [02:44]
Sam Stein
Stay back over here.
- [02:48]
Nicole Sganga
In a statement, the Department of Homeland Security claimed that the observers were stalking and obstructing officers who were on a targeted enforcement mission. Adding to the urgency, many people on the ground are feeling a wave of brand new reporting that underscores the lawlessness of the forces in Minneapolis and a Trump administration that appears hell bent on enabling those practices. First, Wired is reporting that two agents involved in the killing of Renee Good and Alex Preddy belong to units that, quote, behave not like local police, but instead like special forces in Iraq, Afghanistan or other far flung battlefields. They use explosives to breach the doors of homes. Team members are equipped with full tactical gear, military style helmets, assault rifles and heavy duty crowd control weapons like pepper balls, foam launchers and flashbang grenades. And like overseas battles or counter narcotics missions abroad, DHS agents appear to have been told that they no longer need judicial warrants before breaking into private homes or making arrests. That's per an ICE memo released in a whistleblower report and guidance reportedly issued by the Department of Justice. And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that in the immediate aftermath of the killing of Alex Preddy, White House aide Stephen Miller began cooking up a narrative independent of the facts from that Wall Street Journal report. Quote, the moments after federal officers fatally shot Alex Preddy, his body still lying face down on an icy Minneapolis street, Customs and Border Protection officials texted Stephen Miller. While White House communication and policy aides tried to sort out what they knew, what they should say, and who was going to brief President Trump, Stephen Miller jumped ahead. Three hours after the shooting, Miller told the World via X that the slain VA nurse was a, quote, domestic terrorist who had, quote, tried to assassinate federal law enforcement. It's a description that set off one of the Trump administration's biggest political crises of the president's second term. None of the language Miller used had been approved or reviewed, said administration officials familiar with the matter. A potential inflection point in Minneapolis is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Former top DOJ official legal analyst Andrew Weissman is here. Also joining us, senior national and political reporter Jacob Soborough. We start on the Ground in Minneapolis with our reporter Nnamdi Igwanwu Namdi. Tell us what you're seeing and hearing and if there's any. Can you feel the absence? Can you feel, you know, 2700 -700 when there are still 2000 agents on the ground.
- [05:32]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
I think one thing we have felt just being here over the last couple of weeks is we had noted that it felt like we were seeing a bit less of the suburban driving around. It felt like we were seeing less large clashes between protesters and federal immigration agents. But we were still hearing reports from observers around schools and other places that they still were having sightings. So it seems like things were less overt as they used to be. But make no mistake, ICE agents were still performing and conducting their enforcement operations around the city. Now, in reaction to today's news, we just finished talking to a couple protesters here at the Whipple Federal Building. It's the de facto headquarters for ICE here in Minneapolis. And it has been a site of consistent protests almost every day this year. And the people we spoke to generally are telling us that this doesn't feel like the announcement that Homan maybe think it is. At best, some say it feels like they're being offered a crumb. Others say it doesn't feel like there's news at all. That just like you mentioned, there's still 2,000 immigration agents here and that is still gonna result in widespread fear and distress for many communities throughout this city. I also wanna point out that while, yes, a lot of the people we're talking to are left leaning or more Democratic, we also heard from Republicans over the last several days that say, hey, we may be supportive of these immigration enforcement efforts, but we think the conduct of those officers and the way that enforcement takes place does matter. We hear a Republican state rep yesterday who said, for instance, that he doesn't want anyone in his community to feel that they're gonna be profiled based off the color of their skin or to be indiscriminately asked to show their citizenship papers. So that's a belief that is bipartisan. I actually wanna play for you a conversation I had with a woman who identifies as a moderate swing Republican, someone who says that she doesn't necessarily love the president but does feel like she is a Republican. And here's her view of the events that have taken place here and what she wants to see. Take a listen.
- [07:13]
Claire McCaskill
I totally agree that we need to get the worst of the worst. You know, the felons, the people who, I don't care where they come from, whether they're in Minnesota or they're illegally illegal aliens, as they call them, but they're just going about it the wrong way. People are getting hurt. I used to be more. I consider myself more Republican, but I vote for a Democrat. Whoever, you know, I really felt was, I'm very moderate.
- [07:45]
Nicole Sganga
But they have become so blind to what this Trump.
- [07:51]
Claire McCaskill
They're all afraid of President Trump, they're frightened of President Trump. You can't tell me that everybody in this audience has no compassion over these people who are being arrested and detained.
- [08:06]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
So, Nicole, that's what a moderate, someone who identifies as a moderate swing Republican had to say about this. And again, the message we're hearing consistently from some of the groups that been on the ground leading mobilization efforts, organizing, is that this just isn't enough. If there are still 2,000 ICE agents here, there's still a problem with one person telling me earlier that it still feels like a federal invasion is taking place.
- [08:28]
Nicole Sganga
Incredible reporting. Jacob, I want to bring you in on this. You see more and more reporting on the trauma for children. Two people were killed on the streets of Minneapolis trying to protect their neighbors. Schools are not considered on the other side of any of the lines for Donald Trump. And ICE children are not considered on the other side of the line when it comes to using them as bait to lure out of homes other humans for arrest, even if that human is their pregnant mom. And this community seems to be in a state of real terror and trauma, regardless of the numbers of agents there.
- [09:11]
Jacob Soborough
Particularly in the Columbia Heights neighborhood, which is the first place that I showed up when I was there several weeks ago, the day that Liam Ramos was taken in, a story that now everyone knows and understands. And the skepticism of Tom Homan's announcement today that anything, frankly, will change in terms of the posture on the ground, to me is completely understandable, not only because operations continue. You just showed one of them to all of our viewers, but because of who Tom Homan is and what his track record is. Tom Homan, again, to reiterate, is one of the intellectual founding fathers. Don't take it from me. Read Caitlin Dickerson's Pulitzer Prize winning Atlantic piece about the family separation policy of the first Trump term. And while Greg Bevino and his military outfit is no longer on the streets of Minneapolis, Tom Homan in a suit and tie has been talking about some of these very same policies from the very beginning of these raids, if not before. I mentioned to you that he said to me on the second day of the raid, someone is going to die in these operations. It came up again today as he stood behind that giant DHS seal at that press conference, as if something is going to be different because of the way he looks or the way that he sounds, and. And that he's not out on the streets throwing tear gas canisters like Greg Bevino is doing. Ultimately, these policies are doing the same thing. They are not targeting the worst of the worst. And while he did use the word targeting today, he didn't rule out what are called collateral arrests. And collateral arrests are another way of saying they're just going to arrest anybody that they find who is undocumented in any way that they possibly can. And even if they're Quote, unquote, targeting someone. If there are children in the area, if that child is taken with a parent, nobody has said that they're not going to do the same thing that they did allegedly to Liam Ramos or many of the other children. In the stories that we've been hearing coming out of the Dilley Detention center in Texas where there's a record number of children in immigration custody right now.
- [11:11]
Nicole Sganga
Andrew Weissman, I think that there were certainly some people that voted for Trump who were and maybe remain enthusiastic. Right. So let's just stipulate that everyone isn't horrified. I'm horrified and I think it's interesting that some self identifying Republicans are horrified by what they see. The worst of the worst, the criminals who carried out the crimes and victimized the people in the videos that Donald Trump played at his rallies before his speeches as a candidate, the vast majority of them, I want to say all of them, but I don't know if there are a couple who aren't were people who were charged and convicted of crimes and serving time. And those are people that I think 95% of Americans believe should be deported, adjudicated criminals. Why isn't this project focused on people who are beyond dispute, the worst of the worst adjudicated convicted criminals in jails?
- [12:12]
Andrew Weissman
Well, you know, the reporting is that there actually is that debate going on in the White House with Stephen Miller saying essentially just go after anyone and the sort of more moderate people in the White House saying we should be going after the people only who have that kind of criminal record and have a final order of deportation. You know, one sign of this is Renee Good, Alex Preddy, no criminal record in either case. They're citizens and they're dead. And to sort of footstep on what Jason reported is the policies are the same. You are seeing that they're saying that we can arrest people without a, you know, in a home, go in without a judicial warrant. That's against the, the Constitution, the fourth Amendment. You have no federal investigation at all in connection with the Renee Goode shooting. You don't have any access in either the Renee Goode shooting or the Alex Preddy sh to give the state access to the evidence. So what is the message? What is the message when you don't have an independent investigation of shootings to the ICE, the 2000 ICE agents in Minnesota. What the message is is that we will have your back. We will say that whatever happened, you were justified. We will vilify the people who are dead on the ground, even if it's on videotape and we can see what the truth is. We will say that they were assassins or that they are rogue actors and, and we will have your back. And we will not conduct an independent and fair investigation or let the state do that. So if you don't have those kinds of changes, none of this sort of moving the deck chairs around, having a different person there, reducing by 700 but still having 2000 is going to do anything to prevent or at least thwart the kind of violence that we are seeing against citizens and non citizens in a way that really violates basic fundamental decency as well as the law.
- [14:40]
Nicole Sganga
Yeah, I mean, let me Jacob, come back to you on this and just ask you if the numbers troops is even really editorially sound as a data point. It seems that if you had 500 troops acting in an extrajudicial manner, entering homes without permits, pepper spraying protesters, making up lies about people who are protesting, describing them as domestic terrorists, they could still do an enormous amount of harm. Could you just take me through how Chicago gets this show of force off of their streets and tell me if you have any reporting that suggests Minneapolis is in touch with officials there and hoping for the same outcome.
- [15:23]
Jacob Soborough
I think ultimately the answer to why they left la, and by the way, I should say Greg Bevino left la, but those troops, those federal agents are still here. I was sat down at lunch yesterday with Memo Torres from La Taco. These guys count every single day the amount of ICE raids that people taking off the streets. It's still happening here. It might be quiet for a day or two, but it's still happening. It's still happening in Chicago, but just to a differing degree. What I wanna do actually is go back to your other question, Nicole, about why aren't they just targeting the people who are in the prisons who are the worst of the worst? The answer is numbers. Stephen Miller wants to surpass Barack Obama's deporter in chief number of being the president who deported more people in the history of our country. But the answer to the question is he didn't do that by just going after the so called worst of the worst. He had ICE agents inside, not just state prisons. Tim Wall said to me, Gavin Newsom said to me, California cooperates and hands over the worst of the worst from the state prison systems to ice. So does Minneapolis, so excuse me, so does Minnesota, but it's the county jails that don't. The way Barack Obama got those numbers was by sending ICE agents into city and county jails and in some cases Deporting undocumented immigrants who were inside their pretrial, pre conviction, who may have been in there on misdemeanor marijuana charges or traffic violations that ended up in county jails and some of them before they even had their day in court before a judge. And that's what this administration wants to do again. And because they can't do that, because they can't go after undocumented immigrants not even convicted of low level crimes, but are being held on low level crimes, they're going after undocumented immigrants who haven't been convicted of anything on the streets of all of these countries, all of these cities and all of these states. That's what they're after. They can't get to the numbers they want by just going after the worst of the worst. And that's what this is all about to Stephen Miller is having the record of the most deportations ever of doing what Dwight D. Eisenhower did in 1954, deporting a million Mexicans and some Americans. And instead of just deporting, now they're killing immigrants and Americans on the street in pursuit of that same goal.
- [17:36]
Nicole Sganga
It's just an extraordinary moment where even their own, by their own telling, they're offering up sort of window dressing. I mean, this is a debate about whether American citizens should be shot and killed for exercising their First Amendment rights to protest. That's what happened in Minneapolis. And Homan goes out and announces a reduction in troops and 00 changes to the policies on the street. It just, it feels like much ado about not very much. Nandi, this is a really important piece of sound from a Republican. Thank you for bringing us your reporting and starting us off today. When we come back, we'll talk more about what's being done to protect the most vulnerable victims of the Trump administration's enforcement practices, children. Plus, we'll show you how members of Congress are getting heat for their position on ICE funding. As the Trump administration's brand on immigration becomes so toxic, new reporting indicates it's setting up alarms within the gop. And that comes as Trump himself is showing no signs of a reset, continuing to double and triple down on his call to nationalize elections, which is not constitutional, by the way. We have all those stories and more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [19:02]
Jacob Soborough
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- [19:28]
Sam Stein
Why have I asked my electrician I.
- [19:30]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
Found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster?
- [19:32]
Jacob Soborough
I was so moved by how carefully.
- [19:33]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
He buried my electrical wires.
- [19:34]
Jacob Soborough
I knew I could trust him to.
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Nnamdi Igwanwu
Bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.
- [19:37]
Jacob Soborough
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Jacob Soborough
21.
- [20:15]
Nicole Sganga
He'S saying that his daughter, you know, has before everything had happened, she kind of already knew about what was going on, you know, with ICE being in town and stuff like that, and that she would pray that it wouldn't happen to them. And so now that she's inside, you know, detained, she's kind of just, you know, dad, come get me out, you know, like why can't we just leave, you know. So for him it's difficult to explain to her, you know, that that's not the process, you know, that there's a process behind it, but he doesn't know how to explain that to her that they can't leave, you know, and it's been very mentally and physically draining for his daughter. She's losing sleep and she wants to be home now. It is every parent's worst nightmare to find out that your children have been taken. For parents in Minneapolis and immigrant families all across our country, that nightmare is becoming part of their day to day reality. That was a secretary at the school where 10 year old Elizabeth Zuna Costaguano is a fourth grader on what she and her father went through after his daughter was taken by ice. While Elizabeth is now set to be released, she's just one of many, many children, young children who've been traumatized by Donald Trump's mass deportation policy. The New York Times reports this quote for weeks, the Minneapolis area has been a landscape of intense turmoil as federal immigration agents face off against furious citizens. But there is a quieter upheaval taking place behind closed doors as the city's youngest residents attempt to grasp the altering of their neighborhoods, their schools, their sense of security. Regardless of what they might understand about the politics embedded in their surroundings, some things are clear. The adults in their lives are weary and overwhelmed. Neighbors are scared to leave the house. Bomb threats have been called into schools. Events have been canceled. Friends are missing from classrooms, and parents have been taken. At nine years old, Gail De Leon carries a copy of his passport in his backpack. Although he was born in the United States, he is of Mexican descent, and his parents fear that he is a target for immigration agents. I had to tell him if something happens, I know it's going to be scary, but don't worry because I'm going to come for you and I will find you, his mom, Amanda, said Gail has grown anxious about the possibility of being taken and does not want to ride the bus or go to school. It does not help that children even younger than him have been whisked away. We're back with Andrew and Jacob. I don't even know what we say about what it is that's being done in our name. All Americans are involved in this, regardless of who you voted for. This is US Policy right now. And I wonder, Andrew Weissman, what could possibly help? I mean, would a flood of lawyers from some of the fancy firms that did deals with Donald Trump feel bad about them rushing into places and helping to get these cases in front of judges? Would that help? I mean, what is in front of us as an option?
- [23:31]
Andrew Weissman
Okay, I'll give you two thoughts. One is the chief judge in Minneapolis issued a decision that got a fair amount of attention, saying that almost 100 documented instances in his view exist of this Department of Justice not following immigration orders from the courts. So that means even, like you have to release somebody now and it not being done. And one thing that can be done is the judges need to not just call it out. I give them tons and tons of kudos for doing that under incredibly difficult circumstances, being vilified by the administration, death threats to them and their families. But they need to go further. It's not sufficient to just call it out. They can actually hold people in contempt. They can tell lawyers for the administration that they will face disciplinary action, so they really can go further. And the other is that in funding, the people can say in Congress that they will not fund unless. And there's certain basic things. We recently just, you know, in the last segment talked about the fact that they could insist that we are not going to fund a federal agency that stonewalls a state or local investigation of a shooting and if you do that, you will not be funded. That's. That's something that you can do. They can insist that you cannot use deadly force in the situations that we've seen before our own eyes and that there will be real repercussions. They could change the law to be that it's easier to actually sue federal agents when they shoot somebody in those circumstances that we saw with our own eyes with respect to Renee Goode and Alex Preddy. So there are real steps that Congress can take, and there are real steps that courts could take. And I think people have to realize this is not normal. We can't close our eyes to what we are seeing on the streets of our country. And we never thought in a thousand years that we would be here on the 250th anniversary of this nation.
- [26:02]
Nicole Sganga
Yeah, it's not normal. And kids don't have time. They don't get a second childhood. Let me show you, Jacob, what the Henneman county sheriff said is happening right now.
- [26:16]
Claire McCaskill
We are traumatizing these kids. We are robbing them of their futures. They should not be having the worries of adults at their young age. It's going to have an everlasting impact on them.
- [26:27]
Nicole Sganga
Is the federal government listening? Are they hearing you when you say our children are being robbed of their futures? Our communities are living in fear.
- [26:37]
Claire McCaskill
If they are. I haven't seen any responses saying anything other than, this is your fault. You know, blue cities, blue states, this is your fault. No, it's everybody's fault. If you are an adult and if you have, you're in the position of power, it's your fault, too, because things can be done better. We have to admit that, that things can be done better. And there are some things that kids.
- [27:00]
Andrew Weissman
Should be shielded from.
- [27:01]
Claire McCaskill
And I would say that this whole mess is one of them.
- [27:05]
Nicole Sganga
Donald Trump is underwater on immigration. One's a strong issue for him. It's now, along with the economy, one of his weakest issues. Marjorie Taylor Greene, for one, believes that Donald Trump will be impeached because Republicans will lose in the midterms. There's a state Senate seat in Texas that swung 31 points away from Trump, away from Republicans. Why is the sort of political collapse of support not doing anything to temper or cause a reckoning about the policies that are repelling people, including MAGA voters.
- [27:43]
Jacob Soborough
Jacob Because I think that Stephen Miller is running the show. And there's one thing that Stephen Miller wants is to pass Barack Obama as the president who deported more people than anyone else. And the only way they feel they can do that is by targeting people who are not the worst of the worst. And that includes children. And I will never forget what Jonathan White, a career social worker, child welfare expert, told me at the height of the family separation policy, harming children means a century of suffering for those children. And there is a generation beyond the 5,500 separated during the first term. These children that are being targeted in Minneapolis and in St. Paul and elsewhere throughout the country that are going to have a lifetime of trauma as a result of these policies. And that's why the U.S. district Court judge that Andrew was talking about ordered ICE and DHS to explain why they are ignoring court orders to move, to stop moving people out of Minnesota, including children when they take them. And it's something that I've been focusing on in our own reporting. Nicole, there was, I think we have a piece of video from when I was on with you several weeks ago in Minneapolis and we rolled up on an ICE operation in an alley here. This is the one in south Minneapolis on January 22nd. It turns out that put into those vehicles down the alley as we stood there was a two year old girl named Chloe and her father named Elvis. And tomorrow on this very broadcast I'm going to bring everyone a report about what it looks like for a two year old to be put into a van like that by DHS agents, sent out of state to Texas only to be turned around back to Minnesota because the federal government doesn't have it together. They don't know what they're doing with these children. They're not following judges orders to protect them. And what ultimately will happen to 2 year old like Chloe who you'll meet tomorrow and her father Elvis Is a century of suffering that someone like that, that little child will have to endure for the rest of her life.
- [29:39]
Nicole Sganga
That's unbelievable. Jacob Soborough and Andrew Weissman, thank you both so much for sifting through it with me today. After the break we'll show you how one Republican is responding to what we're talking about. Revulsion and anger erupting over these issues from his constituents. We'll talk about that.
- [30:08]
Jacob Soborough
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- [31:11]
Claire McCaskill
Could trust him to care for our kids.
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Jacob Soborough
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- [31:22]
Nicole Sganga
So what does it actually look and feel and sound like to be a Republican on the ballot in 2026? Facing voters when your voters ask you to defend Trump's immigration policies? This is a town hall featuring Republican Congressman Mike Lawlor. Watch.
- [31:40]
Andrew Weissman
I have watched your comments on the current administration and your support for ICE and your inability to.
- [31:52]
Claire McCaskill
Criticize ICE for.
- [31:54]
Andrew Weissman
Murder and for kidnapping children. My question for you, what is your line? What is the line that you won't cross? What can Trump do that you will say that's wrong again.
- [32:11]
Sam Stein
And my point with respect to Minneapolis.
- [32:16]
Andrew Weissman
Is let the investigations actually take place.
- [32:21]
Jacob Soborough
You've all clearly prejudged everything you all know better than the people on the ground.
- [32:28]
Nicole Sganga
It actually gets worse from there. He parrots the Trump administration's claim that somehow five year old Liam Ramos was abandoned, a claim strongly denied by his family. This is how Lawler addressed the same crowd whose vote he will be seeking less from nine months from today.
- [32:46]
Jacob Soborough
Hey bro, you can leave now.
- [32:48]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
Goodbye.
- [32:49]
Jacob Soborough
Goodbye. We won't proceed until you're gone.
- [32:53]
Nnamdi Igwanwu
Goodbye.
- [32:56]
Jacob Soborough
You want to act like that? Goodbye.
- [33:00]
Sam Stein
I'm not going to.
- [33:01]
Jacob Soborough
You leave.
- [33:02]
Nicole Sganga
Bye. Security had to had two members of that audience removed, all because Lawler couldn't answer the question what was a red line for him when it comes to Donald Trump? I want to bring in political analysts, but former Senator Claire McCaskill. Also joining us, managing editor of the Bulwark, contributor Sam Stein. Sam, hey bro. Is so 2024 right when the Manosphere marched in lockstep. Let me show you how Andrew Schultz of Manosphere fame, host of Flagrant and Brilliant Idiots podcast, is feeling about Trump and the Republicans.
- [33:55]
Sam Stein
But I will say that this was a breaking point for me and the way that the administration responded to it. I didn't think what's happening right now with ICE could happen in Americ America. I genuinely did not think that was possible. I thought our institution, I thought the Constitution would hold up. When I see it and then immediately defend it, I start to go, we gotta be very loud about this. Like, it all of a sudden becomes not like liberal catastrophic thinking. It starts to become very reasonable, nuanced criticism of the administration. They have just done. They have just made the most far left critiques of the Trump administration. Their reaction to this has just justified all of them in one moment, in one moment, all of their responses from Trump to Cash Patel, they have justified every single. And I know people probably look at this and be like, they've done a million other things to justify them, sure. And that's fair. But this specific situation, I think, is a breaking point and has justified all those criticism. I think people's antennas are way up and people's antennas that were not up initially.
- [35:08]
Jacob Soborough
This is like seeing the Epstein files.
- [35:12]
Nicole Sganga
This is a really good description of what's happening in the country. Right. It's not that Trump wasn't appalling in every way in the first term. It's that as, and I want to quote him accurately, as Andrew Schultz said, we have to be loud about this. If it all of a sudden becomes not a liberal catastrophic thinking, it starts to be a very reasonable, nuanced criticism of the administration. They have just made the most far left critiques of the Trump administration. The reaction to this has justified all of them. That seems to be the political problem, that every lie Trump has told about the economy, every lie Trump has told, I remember the Washington Post used to count them, which seems so quaint, both for lying and for the Washington Post, all of that was true and then some. Sam.
- [35:59]
Sam Stein
Yeah, and I've kind of tried to figure out why the ICE issue has resonated the way it does. And I think the simplest way to think about it is that those other issues that they're talking about, they were obviously important and significant, but they weren't visceral, they weren't specifically caught on tape. And that video wasn't disseminated across our social media feeds. So the Doge cuts, the tariffs, even the threats on Greenland, the healthcare subsidies, that was more theoretical. It was stuff you read about. Here you have on tape two people being killed by agents of the state. Now, you might have different interpretations of what you saw, but you saw it. And I think for people who are going on these Podcasts or talking on these podcasts and people who are showing up at these town halls, this is what's animating them, is that they saw it with their own eyes and they had a visceral emotional reaction to it. And I think that's why these have more political salience than the other issues prior to them.
- [37:04]
Nicole Sganga
I think, Claire, there's something else, and I don't know that I can put this artfully enough for this medium, but I'm gonna try. There was the perception that masculinity was an issue, if not in the center of last year's elections, certainly one of the key side dishes. And right now you've got every woman who does drop off could see herself right in Renee Nicole Goode better than most of us because after drop off she went to protect her neighbors. Every man or boy who covets the actual essence of masculinity, which is to be a protector, to be strong, to be brave, can see himself or could want to see himself and Alex Preddy putting his body and his hands up and just a phone in his hands between himself and a woman being pepper sprayed. It's not just visceral, it could be any of us. And I think there is a real problem in the attempt. And the Wall Street Journal has a great TikTok of how those folks, the victims of ICE killings, get victimized. That Stephen Miller, it is known someone in the White House is talking about it because they told the Wall Street Journal that before any of those statements were reviewed or fact checked, Stephen Miller goes out there and tells the world they were domestic terrorists.
- [38:26]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah, it's interesting. I do think that a lot of the male support of Trump did turn on this thing, that men are not getting their due and Trump is going to change that. And I do think that two keys to that particular voting group are their gun rights and frankly their ability to protect people they love. So they see this, you know, when Jacob talks about a two year old girl, she was taken with her father, her father couldn't protect her. And when you think about the five year old, he was off in some holding facility in Texas with his father. And you have the US Attorney in Washington D.C. one of the most important cities in America saying don't show up with a gun. I think a lot of these things, to say nothing of the visuals that Sam's referring to, are sending a signal to a lot of people who supported Trump that maybe this isn't exactly the view of masculinity they were going for. And I think they're in political trouble over it. And Nicole, we always forget to mention how narrow Stephen Miller's political experiences, Michele Bachmann's presidential campaign, immigration work for Jeff Sessions in the Senate. And Donald Trump, he clearly does not have a political antenna or he would not be making major mistakes that are going to cost Donald Trump and his party lots of seats in Congress.
- [40:05]
Nicole Sganga
Yeah. We'll go through some of the numbers from Fox News of all places, and Quinnipiac on the other side of a very short break. Stay with us, Claire. I know you've always got your eye on independents. This is FOX News polling about how independent voters feel about ice. In July, only 49% of independents said ice was too aggressive. Now 71% of them do. What does that say to you about this issue and how it has changed?
- [40:42]
Claire McCaskill
Yeah, the independent approval of Donald Trump has been dropping like a rock since January. And it will make a big difference in a lot of the districts that are purple. And there's a bunch of them that are purple. And that is the seats where a Democrat or Republican could get elected like Mike Lawler's seat. And you know, I think Donald Trump gets the politics of this because remember what just happened, Nicole, I want to make sure people understand what happened on this government funding. Donald Trump talked House members into voting for a government funding bill that did not fund ice, that did not fund Department of Homeland Security, left out the funding for dhs. So now they're going to argue about reforms within dhs. The Republicans aren't going to go for it. And this issue will become front and center because the Democrats will be seen as standing up and refusing to fund an agency that is engaging in this kind of abuse of American citizens. So it's fascinating to me that Trump did this because now they are stuck with no funding for the appropriations for this year for dhs, unless they agree to some significant reforms, which I think they're going to probably balk at doing.
- [41:58]
Nicole Sganga
Sam, almost 60% of people believe that Kristi Noem should be removed from her job. That same poll, it's Quinnipiac, has Trump's approval rating down to 37%.
- [42:09]
Sam Stein
I mean, these numbers are brutal. Let's just be straight. They are brutal numbers. And in a different time, maybe with a different president, you would see more concrete steps to try to repair them. You would potentially see him trying to remove Kristi Noem or, you know, sideline Stephen Miller. You would see him try to back off some of the harsher elements of the immigration raids and detention. And he signal here and there that he's considering it, but nothing of substance. And you're going to continue to get these visuals that have turned the public away from this president. They're going to continue to happen. And Senator McCoskill is absolutely right. In 10 days, we're going to have a specific debate about the future of DHS funding and immigration in America. And 10 months ago, that would have seemed like absolutely perfect terrain for Donald Trump. Now it presents a whole host of.
- [43:01]
Nicole Sganga
Weaknesses for her huge political loser. Claire McCaskill, Samstein, thank you both so much for joining me today. Up next for us, the search for Nancy Guthrie continues into its fourth day. The very latest from the sheriff there. After a quick break, The search for Today show CO anchors Savannah Guthrie's mom entered its fourth day today. this point in the investigation, the Pima County, Arizona sheriff says a suspect or person of interest has not been identified. He tells NBC News in an interview today this quote, we have nothing else to go on but the belief that she is here, she's present, she's alive, and we want to save her. The FBI is now helping with the search for Nancy Guthrie along with a specialized unit with the U.S. border Patrol. Anyone with any information on the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie can call the FBI's tip line. It's 1-800- call FBI or the Pima County Sheriff Department at 520-351-4900. We'll continue to monitor the story and bring you any updates. Up next for us, Fulton County, Georgia, officials challenging the Trump administration in court today after the FBI took hundreds of boxes of election materials last week. The next hour of deadline, White House starts after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.
- [44:22]
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Jacob Soborough
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