Deadline: White House — “Why was Gabbard there in the first place?”

Host: Alicia Menendez (in for Nicolle Wallace)
Date: February 5, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the escalating controversy surrounding Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard's involvement in a federal raid on the Fulton County, Georgia elections office, in the context of Donald Trump’s ongoing, baseless allegations of election fraud and efforts to consolidate electoral power. The discussion critically examines shifting explanations from Trump and his allies, legal and democratic ramifications, and connects these events to broader trends in governance—including immigration crackdowns and concerns over the rule of law. The episode also covers breaking news on the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie and presents the latest fallout from the release of the Epstein files.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Scandal: Why Was Tulsi Gabbard in Fulton County?

Time: 01:04–03:50

• Different Stories from Trump and Allies:

  • Trump told supporters Tulsi Gabbard attended the Fulton County ballot search at AG Pam Bondi's insistence.
    • Trump: “She took a lot of heat two days ago because she went in at Pam's insistence. ... Because Pam wanted her to do it.” (01:38)
  • In an NBC interview the previous night, Trump contradicted himself:
    • Trump: “I don't know [why Gabbard was there]. But you know, a lot of the cheating comes from ... it's international cheating.” (02:26)
  • Gabbard informed Congress that Trump “specifically directed my observance of the execution of the Fulton county search warrant.” (02:34)

• Pressing Questions:

  • Why the conflicting stories?
  • Why is the administration seizing ballots from 2020, despite zero evidence of widespread fraud?
  • Host Alicia Menendez notes: “Why was Gabbard there in the first place? Why is the administration seizing 2020 ballots when ... there was no widespread fraud...?” (02:34)

2. Setting the Stage for Troubling Precedents

Time: 03:50–06:28

• Trump’s push to “nationalize” or “take control” of elections, especially in Black, Democratic-leaning cities (Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta).

  • Trump: “There are some areas in our country that are extremely corrupt. … Take a look at Detroit, take a look at Philadelphia, take a look at Atlanta.” (03:27)
  • Menendez: “Not only was there no evidence of large scale fraud ... Trump did indeed suggest nationalizing elections.” (03:50)

• Legal Perspective (Andrew Weissman):

  • Notes confusion over chain of command; DNI does not report to the AG.
  • Warns the situation is about undermining the future of elections, not just rehashing 2020.
    • “Tulsi Gabbard, I think was there because ... if there's an allegation of foreign interference ... she would have arguable jurisdiction ... if there's foreign intelligence services who are trying to interfere ... But … the head of the intelligence community does not report to the attorney general.” (04:40)
    • “It is not so much to vindicate the past. It is about what the elections, the upcoming elections, will be like...” (06:26)

3. Election Officials’ Concerns and Government Conspiracies

Time: 06:28–11:43

• Stephen Richer (former Maricopa County recorder):

  • Highlights a shift: “Allegations and conspiracies will be coming from within government.” (06:38)
  • Wonders if goal is just to create doubt or to justify “something more aggressive.”

• Reporter’s Update on Gabbard’s Other Involvements:

  • New Reuters reporting: Gabbard led a probe into voting machines in Puerto Rico, seeking evidence of Venezuelan interference. No evidence found. (09:19)
  • Richer: “What that story evidence is is that there is no such thing as a dead theory...” (10:20)

• Noteworthy Quote:

  • “It seems like there's never an end. And that's one of the frustrating things for election officials. ... It's not about just getting answers to questions for these people.” — Stephen Richer (10:56)

4. The Prospect of Armed Federal Involvement

Time: 11:43–16:37

• Steve Bannon (via podcast):

  • Bannon: “You're damn right we're gonna have ICE surround the polls come November. ... We will never again allow an election to be stolen.” (12:12)

• Legal and Practical Risks:

  • Andrew Weissman raises concern about possible use of armed force, citing both administration rhetoric and Wall Street Journal reporting:
    • “Will they try and tamper with elections? ... Will they enforce the criminal statute that says it's illegal to send in armed forces to surround an election?... Now we are seeing that being floated by the President and his allies.” (13:03)

• Forecasting Legal Consequences:

  • Christy Greenberg (legal analyst): Trump openly targets majority-Black, Democratic cities.
    • “There are plenty of times where he is completely transparent. And this is one of them. He is telling you the target cities.” (15:40)
  • “Look, I think this Department of Justice is shown they are willing to play ball. ... Their mantra is not what the law says, it’s what would Donald Trump do?” (15:57)

5. Failures of Imagination and the Rule of Law

Time: 16:37–19:00

• Broadening the Crisis:
  • Menendez: “We've had a failure of imagination about what ... Trump is willing to do in order to dismantle this democracy.” (16:37)
  • Richer: “...Allegations coming from the President ... just as crazy as stuff you might see on social media ... coming from government ... is going to supercharge people's distrust... I couldn’t have possibly predicted the FBI was going to seize 2020 election material from Fulton County. I couldn’t have possibly predicted January 6, 2021.” (18:01/18:59)

Special Segment: DOJ Under Strain from Immigration Crackdown

Time: 21:20–28:16

• Federal Prosecutors Overwhelmed:

  • Julie Lee, federal prosecutor, voices exhaustion in court: “Sometimes I wish you would just hold me in contempt, your honor, so that I can have a full 24 hours of sleep. The system sucks, this job sucks…” (21:20)
  • ICE accused of ignoring judicial orders, detaining people illegally.

• Judge’s Rebuke (as read by Andrew Weissman):

  • “Detention without lawful authority ... It is a constitutional injury ... The overwhelming majority ... found to be lawfully present ... When a release order is not followed, ... it is the continued detention of a person the Constitution does not permit ... You wield extraordinary power, and that power has to exist within constitutional limits.” (22:25)

• Structural Shortcomings:

  • Menendez: “They have moved forward with this aggressive law enforcement effort in the field without properly supporting what would be the back end.” (26:19)
  • Weissman: “You’re not doing anything to change the policies. ... Policies that are leading to this cruelty are the same regardless of who is at the top.” (27:03)

Urgent Update: Nancy Guthrie’s Disappearance

Time: 30:02–38:51

• Summary of Developments:

  • Nancy Guthrie, mother of Savannah Guthrie, likely kidnapped from her home outside Tucson.
  • $50,000 reward; evidence of blood at the scene; security footage unavailable at key time.

• Ransom Letters:

  • FBI taking ransom letters seriously due to specific details, but not fully verifying their legitimacy. (32:11)
  • Chris O’Leary (former FBI): “Are there details that nobody in the general public has access to? ... If communication is established ... finding things only Mrs. Guthrie could answer ... that's proof of life...” (33:17)

• Timeline Recap:

  • Evening with family → returned home @ 9:48pm → surveillance disconnects at 1:47am → activity at 2:12am → phone disconnected @ 2:28am → family checks at 11:56am → police called at 12:03pm. (35:18)

• Family’s Public Plea:

  • Savannah Guthrie: “Our mom is our heart and our home. She is 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. ... We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her.” (31:18)

The Epstein Files: New Accountability, Incomplete Follow-up

Time: 38:51–43:53

• Resignation After Revelations:

  • Brad Karp, chairman of Paul Weiss, resigns after emails reveal close ties to Jeffrey Epstein, including legal advice post Epstein’s guilty plea.
    • Karp: “Recent reporting has created a distraction and has placed a focus on me that is not in the best interests of the firm.” (39:48)

• Ongoing Accountability:

  • Lisa Rubin: “Karp continued his association with Epstein ... well into 2019. ... For a person who has positioned himself and in particular his law firm as protectors of social justice ... that was perhaps one of the most damning emails to come out…” (39:58)
  • Christy Greenberg: Notes the FBI’s overview of accusations against 13 prominent people; little clarity on thoroughness of follow-up or consequences.
    • “It’s not really clear that ... DOJ did all that much about it. And ... that, for me, was the most troubling thing...” (41:04/41:57)

• Broader Notion of Accountability:

  • Lisa Rubin: “Accountability also means people losing their positions of power. ... Brad Karp remains a partner [at Paul Weiss]. To me, that's not really much of a consequence...” (42:36)

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Tulsi Gabbard, I think was there because ... if there's an allegation of foreign interference ... she would have arguable jurisdiction as DNI ... But the idea that she would take a direct order from Pam Bondi ... doesn’t work.” – Andrew Weissman (04:40)
• “It is not so much to vindicate the past. It is about what the elections, the upcoming elections, will be like in this country.” – Andrew Weissman (06:26)
• “What that story evidence is is that there is no such thing as, as a dead theory ... It's not about getting answers to questions for these people.” – Stephen Richer (10:56)
• “Will they enforce the criminal statute that says that it's illegal to send in armed forces to surround an election?... Now we are seeing that being floated by the President and his allies.” – Andrew Weissman (13:03)
• “There are plenty of times where [Trump] is completely transparent. … He is telling you the target cities.” – Christy Greenberg (15:40)
• “You wield extraordinary power, and that power has to exist within constitutional limits.” – Judge, as read by Andrew Weissman (23:41)
• “Our mom is our heart and our home. She is 84 years old. Her health, her heart is fragile. ... We need to know without a doubt that she is alive and that you have her.” – Savannah Guthrie (31:18)

Notable Timestamps

• 01:04 — Alicia Menendez opens with the Gabbard-Fulton County scandal.
• 01:38 — Trump justifies Gabbard’s presence at Bondi’s request.
• 02:26 — Trump contradicts himself on NBC News: “I don't know [why she was there]...”
• 03:27 — Trump lists “corrupt” cities, suggesting intervention.
• 04:40 — Andrew Weissman unpacks chain-of-command and dangers ahead.
• 06:38 — Stephen Richer on consequences for election officials.
• 10:20 — Richer on “dead theories” and endless debunked accusations.
• 12:12 — Steve Bannon forecasts armed ICE presence at polls.
• 13:03 — Weissman on possible use of force/legal violations.
• 15:40 — Greenberg: Trump is transparent about targeting blue cities.
• 18:01 — Richer: “Allegations from government...supercharge distrust”
• 21:20 — Prosecutor Julie Lee on overwhelm amid immigration enforcement.
• 22:25 — Judge’s powerful rebuke of illegal detentions.
• 31:18 — Savannah Guthrie’s public plea in kidnapping.
• 39:58 — Lisa Rubin on Karp/Epstein links and incomplete accountability.

Final Reflections

The episode captures a moment of democratic crisis, as Trump’s administration and allies escalate attacks on election integrity, manipulate governmental powers, and strain the justice system. Legal, journalistic, and governmental voices unite in warning that the old limits on power may no longer hold—a message aimed squarely at anyone concerned with the future of fair elections, rule of law, and accountability in America.

One can hope that caution, oversight, and public scrutiny avert the worst—and that justice, in all urgent matters discussed, is vigorously pursued.