← Deadline: White House
Deadline: White House
"Will stop at nothing to get his prized golden ballroom"
00:43:44
June 5, 2026, 4pm: Nicolle Wallace on new reporting that the companies that have donated toward the demolition and rebuilding of Donald Trump's ballroom have received federal contracts worth billions.
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- [00:00]
Narrator/Announcer
Soldiers, you are about to embark upon the great crusade.
- [00:03]
Movie Trailer Voice
From Focus Features and the producers of Darkest Hour. There are two major storms advancing towards the Normandy coast this weekend on the anniversary of D Day. If you invade tomorrow, they're going to be washed away. Honor their courage.
- [00:16]
Nicole Wallace
Get my men onto the beaches somehow.
- [00:18]
Movie Trailer Voice
Anyhow, see their story.
- [00:20]
Narrator/Announcer
We will accept nothing less than full victory.
- [00:25]
Movie Trailer Voice
The untold true story of d day radio 3 may be inappropriate for children under 13 now playing only in theaters.
- [00:30]
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- [01:00]
Nicole Wallace
Hi there everyone. It's four o'clock in New York. We made it to Friday. Donald Trump has made it clear that he will stop at nothing to get his prized precious. I carry around a picture of it in my pocket. Golden Ballroom done. Even as his base and members of his own political party and the courts all tried to slow or stop him. Now, as support for funding his ballroom becomes politically toxic, there's brand new reporting that finds that the companies that have donated toward the demolition and rebuilding of his Golden Ballroom have received federal contracts worth billions of dollars. Washington Post is reporting this quote more than half of the publicly identified donors to Donald Trump's White House ballroom project have won new or expanded federal contracts collectively worth more than $50 billion during the past six months. That's according to a report by a government watchdog group. Fourteen of the 27 known corporate donors to the $400 million project, which would replace the East Wing that Donald Trump demolished in October, have seen their government business grow in that window. That's according to the report from Public Citizen, a nonprofit group. The new report focuses on contracts awarded in most of the seven months since the East Wing's demolition, which Trump's critics have argued created new urgency around potential conflicts of interest of the known donors. No single contributor received more new business with the government since giving to the project than Lockheed Martin. That defense giant received roughly $43.8 billion in new or expanded contract funding since last fall, according to the report. Booz Allen Hamilton followed with more than $4.2 billion and Palantir with just over $1 billion. Other donors that received new or Increased contracts include Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Caterpillar and T Mobile. Altogether, more than two thirds of the corporate ballroom donors, 19 of 27, have received government contracts over the past five and a half years totaling $338 billion, according to the report. Now, many of these companies were also facing federal enforcement action as or while or before they donated to Donald Trump's pet project. On that, the post adds this quote, 16 of the 27 donors are facing federal enforcement actions or have had such actions suspended by the Trump administration, the report found, including major antitrust reviews involving Amazon, Apple, Meta and Nvidia labor rights cases involving Google, Lockheed and Meta and securities matters involving Coinbase and Ripple, whose cases have been dropped or scaled back under Trump, the White House tried to push back on this Washington Post report saying this quote, the same critics who are alleging fake conflicts of interest would also complain if American taxpayers were footing the bill for these long overdue renovations. Well, White House, you got us there. As if they weren't pushing for $220 million, though, in taxpayer funds for their ballroom project. As it is, as the Trump administration works overtime to justify all of this, the courts may halt them in their tracks. A appeals court today heard arguments to see if any of the construction which has taken place already is legal and to decide if it will be allowed to continue at all. The court is expected to rule in the coming weeks. Donald Trump figuring out yet another way to monetize his presidency as he seeks to turn Washington, D.C. into a gold leafed monument to himself is where we begin today. Staff writer at the Atlantic video podcast host David Frum is here. Also joining us, Media Matters for America President Angelo Carazone is back with us. And joining us, the co president of the group that compiled that very important report, the co president of Public Citizen is here, Robert Weissman. Robert, take us through the report's key findings and just add some context to what we already highlighted.
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Robert Weissman
Yeah, well, you hit the top level points, but it's exactly what it seems. But more than two dozen companies are giving a huge amount of money for regular people, but not for them to pay for Trump's ballroom. And they're not doing it out of any sense of civic engagement or because they love their country. They're doing it because they've got huge business interests before the government, primarily government contracts, which as you said, total more than $50 billion in just the last six months, more than $330 billion over the last five years. But not just contracts. They've got all kinds of interest, policy interests and crucially more than two thirds of them were facing federal enforcement actions, whether it's antitrust lawsuits or civil rights enforcement actions or unlawful firing of worker cases. And they are hoping to receive kind treatment from the president that they are helping fund. And there's every reason for them to expect that this going to be a very worthwhile investment and a huge return for them and more contracts, less enforcement and more favorable policy decisions.
- [06:28]
Nicole Wallace
Let me follow up on that piece of it. The, the, the contracts being awarded are so gobsmacking, but it feels like the enforcement being halted is in some ways more insidious. And when you look at the way Todd Blanche has seemingly gleefully embraced using DOJ to carry out Trump's will, I wonder if you can just talk about the severity of the kinds of enforcement actions which appear to be impacted.
- [07:02]
Robert Weissman
Yeah, well, as a general matter, we're seeing an unbelievable pullback on enforcement against corporations. At the same time, as you suggest, the administration now led by Todd Blanche at doj, is weaponizing government enforcement against individuals that Trump perceives to be his enemies. We've seen that in the pardons that he's given to people who are well connected, who are paid lobbyists to get pardons. We've seen that in the cases at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau where the ongoing case cast and ongoing cases were designed to protect people from the most vicious financial predatory lenders and schemers. And effectively all the enforcement is dropped there. The government actually tried to undo an already completed settlement and apologized to the company that it enforced against on a civil rights case. The judges wouldn't let that go through. That's a sign of how severe this is. And as you suggest, these are discretionary decisions. The government really has a lot of flexibility to choose to proceed or not. Of course they should where law, the law says they should, but there's a lot of discretion to make the decision, yes or no. And of course, these companies are expecting if they're given 1 million, 5 million, $10 million to Trump's pet project, that they're going to get favorable treatment when prosecutors or enforcement agents are looking at it whether to proceed or not, and they're being shown to be correct.
- [08:32]
Nicole Wallace
Robert, in doing this work. Have you ever seen anything like this on the scale of this and as brazenly public as this?
- [08:41]
David Frum
Nope.
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Robert Weissman
The government undertake. The response from the White House is hysterical. Right. The government undertakes projects all the time, of course, in Washington, D.C. to develop monuments, maintaining monuments. We've got all these museums. The government pays for this stuff. And when it Doesn't. It's done through really careful and authorized processes.
- [09:02]
Angelo Carusone
We've.
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Robert Weissman
There's nothing like destroying half the White House without getting congressional authorization and then seeking to pay for the rebuilding of a ridiculous ballroom by a handful of corporate donors and super billionaires. No, nothing like that has happened in recent memory or any memory or ever in American history.
- [09:19]
Nicole Wallace
David Fromm, you are one of the people whose commentary on this story as the East Wing was being bulldozed, has stuck with me since those. And I remember those shows. I remember wanting, I sit here in front of a picture of the White House and their live shots, and I remember wanting to put a live picture behind me because Trump made a mockery of every use of sort of the iconography of the People's House. Right. He bulldozed it, actually. And for all the stories that we've all tried to tell for nine years, I don't know that anything shows instead of tells the story of his appetite for destruction of that which doesn't belong to him, like bulldozing the White House and letting corporations pay him to rebuild it.
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David Frum
Look at how you frame the story at the very top of the segment. You see, you said, we've caught the government, public citizens, caught the government accepting hundreds of millions of dollars of bribes for which it is recompensating or repaying the bribers by giving them tens of billions of dollars in public benefits, in contracts, and who knows how much in relief from enforcement actions. Hundreds of millions of bribes go in, tens of billions of public dollars go out. And when the when asked, why are you taking all these bribes? The answer is, well, the public would never have agreed to pay the taxes for the president's project. So we had no choice but to take the bribes. Because if we'd asked Congress for the money, Congress would have said, this is a stupid idea. But the core theory of American government, the fundamental engine of the Constitution and before that of the British Constitution, from which the American Constitution was derived, the core idea is the executive has no money of its own. That anything that the executive needs to do, anything that the executive is entrusted to do, the way it is funded, is the people's representatives in Congress or Parliament vote the taxes, they vote the spending, and then after this vote, they vote in Congress or Parliament for the taxes and the spending, then the executive does as it's ordered to do. Donald Trump's core project in the second term has been developing streams of money that he gets. He can just take for himself, whether it's the money from tariffs that are imposed Illegally, without Congress, whether it's the slush fund, through this sham litigation he orchestrated and then dropped and then created a billion or $2 billion worth of slush fund money, plus a bribe for himself in the form of no enforcement action against him ever, or this. The object has always been create money that the people's representatives don't control. And this is it. Is. It is hard to imagine a more attack, fundamental attack on the basic logic of American government for the President to have his own money that he takes through sham ligation, through illegal tariffs, or through bribes and says, well, you don't want to pay any taxes, Are you. You're paying the taxes. You are paying for this, and you're just paying for it much more because you have to pay tens of billions of dollars of contracts to collect the hundreds of millions of dollars of bribes in the first place.
- [12:20]
Nicole Wallace
David Fromm, I feel like I lack the words or talent to articulate how insane it is that their answer now to being, as you framed it, caught doing these things is, yeah, we're doing it, but you wouldn't want the tactics. I mean, that they're saying it and admitting it all out loud is so jarring. Like, this is gonna sound perverse, but it was almost more satisfying when they had the instinct to try to hide. And it came out in like a four alarm, you know, story in the New York Times or the Washington Post. What does it say to you and what should we be talking about in that they do it all out loud and in public, expecting no consequences for what are clearly unethical, immoral, and unconstitutional practices?
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David Frum
Well, the history lesson I keep citing is the principle of the American Revolution that said that all the money that the executive has has to come from the vote of the people's representatives. And that derived from the, from England before that. The last English speaking head of government to say, I want to do it a different way, I just want to take the money, was an English king and the English cut his head off for it. This is a revolutionary act by the President and it demands the most. I don't recommend cutting anybody's head off. I want to be clear about that. But it is a revolutionary act by the President that goes against the central idea of American government. The President has no money except the money Congress allows him to have for the purposes Congress tells him to spend the money on.
- [13:52]
Nicole Wallace
Angela, I want to show you how these practices are being communicated by someone who I think has really put his finger on where the American people are in both parties on the issue of corruption. This is John Ossoff.
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John Ossoff
He promised to bring down prices on day one. Instead, prices are soaring. Ground beef's up 25% since Trump was sworn in. Coffee 40%. The price of gas 33%. Groceries, rent, health care and the power bill hit their new all time highs last month. And while you pay more for everything, Donald Trump wants your tax dollars for what many are calling the Jeffrey Epstein Memorial Ballroom, by the way, by the way, he forced out that Republican congressman, the one who made him release the Epstein files.
- [14:55]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, you could close your eyes and imagine a Republican saying that, the same thing. Groceries, rent, healthcare and the power bill hit all time highs last month. While you pay more for everything, the President wants your tax dollars for what many are calling the Jeffrey Epstein Memorial Ballroom. I mean, prices going up and the Epstein conspir were issues that the right cared about 19 and a half months ago.
- [15:20]
Angelo Carusone
Yeah, I mean those were fract, those are fault lines now they're full blown fractures. But I mean, we talked about it, you know, a year ago when they were, when it was, when those cracks were starting to emerge within Trump's MAGA coalition. It was an important, it was important factor for a lot of that constituency. And I think what Senator Ostroff got to there was sort of moving the story about corruption even one level further because, yeah, what the ballroom has become basically is a monument to corruption and the pay to play sort of work that the Trump administration is doing. And what public citizen has done is outline that so effectively. But then the next part of it is not just that it's corruption and it begins and ends with the corruption, it's that as a part of this cycle, public money is then being repurposed back into this feedback loop to the players that are paying to get access or to get relief from government and sort of investigations and other sort of enforcement actions. And that's the part where it becomes a. So what? Because at the center of this is a corruption cycle. You're getting pickpocketed, your money is being used to go into this feedback loop of which you're not benefiting from. And so that's one thing. And then to this incompetence and the corruption is also coming at the expense of anything. In fact, maybe it's even causing in some cases or contributing to prices going up or at least a lack of governance that's doing anything to respond to the needs or the issues that matter so much. And that I think is where it really comes home. So you touch on an issue that matters to a lot of the people, which is the Epstein stuff. And then you move the story along to how it's directly impacting and affecting so many of you. And that, that's something that I'm seeing play out day to day in the news media. I can't emphasize enough how much local news has changed in the last month in discussions of how of the effects of the economy on people's everyday lives. The stories have just gotten way more consistent.
- [17:09]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of this reality that you can't spin away inside some bubble erected by the manosphere. I'll say this too, about the manosphere. You see a real fracture there. I mean, nothing's emasculating than being stolen from in full view. Like the other half of the brazenness with which they're stealing taxpayer dollars and doing pay to play is that there is nothing more emasculating than taking people's hard earned money. And you see a real divide. I mean, I, I played Megan Kelly and I think his name's Sean Ryan. And you see Andrew, I mean, some of the manosphere guys are off the boat, but the others that are on have to somehow. I don't know, I don't know how you keep the brand of the manosphere and let yourself get fleeced.
- [17:52]
Angelo Carusone
I mean, that was a key part. That's what Trump has sort of forgotten. The key part of his power was not just the ability to organize and build power and used to be considered the fringes, but to maintain it. And the vehicle for that was this coalition of all these different media constituencies. And the manosphere was a big part of it. And a lot of them signed up not just for vibes, but for revenge, for sticking it to the libs, to owning the libs. And people love revenge. But most people stop at the point where you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Right. They love revenge until it hurts them and then they won't go that far. And that's really what's happening here, is that people have signed up for revenge for owning the limbs. But now Trump is saying, well, you're not only not going to get that revenge, but I'm going to fleece you. I'm going to emasculate you as a part of this process. I'm going to do these pump and dump schemes. I'm going to have a pay to play system of which you're not getting any of the spoils, which is also a part of this. You know, people are willing to tolerate this if you're going to get a little bid on the back end, but no one's getting that right. He's not putting money back into the right wing media. They're not buying ads on these programs. They're not being, they're not getting a cut of the T shirts or the merch that they're selling. It's all being run through this gigantic industrial scale corruption engine that the Trump family has created.
- [19:02]
Nicole Wallace
Some someday someone will be able to explain to me on this show how a napping grandpa with painted on yellow hair became a thing in the manosphere. We're going to sneak in a break. I will have more on this story. Not the hair and the napping grandpa. The corruption also had for us as both sitting and retired judges sound the alarm about Donald Trump's incessant attacks on the rule of law. The threats against judges and the judiciary are multiplying with potentially very real and dangerous consequences. Our friend Judge Esther Salas will join us on that topic. Also ahead, Donald Trump says he wants his incoming acting director of National Intelligence Bill Pulte to, quote, gut the intelligence community and investigate his baseless claims of election fraud. What could go wrong? Former CIA Director John Brennan will be our guest to answer that question. And later in the broadcast, Democrats have a new nickname for Donald Trump, the commander in sleep after he dozed off once again during a live event scheduled by the White House with cameras escorted into the Oval by the White House press office. He was surrounded by his own cabinet and they all let him get in some REM sleep. It would appear we'll have that and much more when Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere,
- [20:37]
Narrator/Announcer
Soldiers. You are about to embark upon the
- [20:39]
Movie Trailer Voice
great crusade from Focus Features and the producers of Darkest Hour. There are two major storms advancing towards the Normandy coast this weekend on the anniversary of D Day. If you invade tomorrow, they're going to be washed away. Honor their courage.
- [20:52]
Nicole Wallace
Get my men onto the beaches somehow
- [20:54]
Movie Trailer Voice
anyhow, see their story.
- [20:56]
Narrator/Announcer
We will accept nothing less than full victory pressure.
- [21:01]
Movie Trailer Voice
The untold true story of d day. Ready PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13. Now playing only in theaters.
- [21:06]
Monday.com Advertiser
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- [21:36]
Narrator/Announcer
breathe Ms. Now presents the chart topping original podcast, the Best People with Nicole Wallace. This week, award winning sportscast Bob Costas.
- [21:47]
Nicole Wallace
We've long been living in media echo chambers in which anything you want to
- [21:52]
David Frum
be true is true, even absent compelling evidence.
- [21:56]
Narrator/Announcer
The Best people with Nicole Wallace listen now. For early access ad free listening and bonus content, subscribe to Ms. Now premium
- [22:04]
Nicole Wallace
on Apple Podcasts Rebecca, David Angelo and Robert. Robert, let me ask you a legal question. If you're a company that decided not to contribute to the demolition and destruction of the people's House and you didn't get a contract, do you have a potential future legal recourse?
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Robert Weissman
Probably not. You know, each contract is its own thing. There's a process for complaining and challenging bid denials, administrative process. But you'd have a hard time probably showing the reason the decision was taken was because you did the right thing and somebody, your competitor did the wrong thing. We saw Jamie Dimon refuse to contribute to this precisely because he said, there's going to be a Democrat on the White House in the future and I don't want them to come after me. And he's had some less than favorable treatment from the administration since then.
- [23:03]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, David Fromm, it just points to, I think, this undeniable landscape and the absolute vacuum in terms of civic minded leaders in business, with the exception of Jamie Dimon in this instance, I'm not making a broad statement about everything he does, but in this instance, and I wonder what we are to make of that. I mean, here's where the American people stand to the degree that companies care about customers buying their stuff. I guess if you're getting this many government contracts, maybe you don't. But 58% of Americans oppose tearing down the east wing of the White House to build Trump's Gold Ballroom, 24% support it. Do you, do you think there is a point in time where people who are on the wrong side of now 60% of the public pays a price in terms of brand damage?
- [23:59]
David Frum
I'm sorry, there's some kind of flood alert here. I beg your pardon for that.
- [24:02]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, we don't want you to be flooded. Are you safe? Seriously?
- [24:05]
David Frum
I'm. I think I'm safe.
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Nicole Wallace
Okay.
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David Frum
You know, one of the things, one thing I want to amend that I said before as I talked about companies paying bribes, but from the experience of many of the companies, this may be experienced more as extortion than a bribe, like what happened to Ukraine in the first term. Because after all, if the President of the United States comes to you and says, I'd like $100 million for my ballroom. What do you say? If you do tens of billions of dollars of business with the government and you know Donald Trump and you know what he is and what he is capable of, and you've seen the revenge exacts. So the companies here may not be the villains of the story. They may be victims, too. And they may be, they may, they may have a story where they said, you know what, we were the best bidder on that contract. We would have won the contract anyway. The hundred million dollar shakedown was just the price of doing business and we resent it as much as you do.
- [24:51]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I mean, okay, but at some point, how do you preserve democracy if everyone's worried about the next government contract? Don't you need everybody on the field?
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David Frum
Well, we can't. We need everyone on the field, but we need. The principal agency here is Congress that has to. Congress has to enforce its power of the person to say the president should not just. And this whole. And the lie began at the very beginning when Donald Trump said he was going to work without a salary. Any public official who offers to work without a salary has a plan of compensation that is vastly in excess of the salary. And the line must always be, you must take the salary. It's not optional. You must take the salary and nothing else. Because Donald Trump has refused his $400,000 a year salary, but has helped himself to billions of dollars of money, both from directly from the public and some of it in the form of foreign favor seekers. Again and again and again, there has been this attempt to offer, and in a way, we're all complicit in this offer. The American people the illusion you're getting something for free, this ballroom, but in fact, you're paying for it, and you're just paying for it in ways that bypass the constitutional process. Where Congress decides, is this thing worth buying in the first place?
- [26:00]
Nicole Wallace
I want to ask my control room to put up a picture of what the White House looks like right now. The White House is exquisite. My son's been on a trip to D.C. and the pictures are beautiful. This is not what it always looks like. This is Donald Trump treating the White House like it is. I don't know, his summer house. Erecting a cage, match, stage fighting, threatening to leave it there forever. He slapped his name on the Kennedy Center. He's now got a few more days to take it off. He destroyed the rose garden, put concrete there instead of roses. The garden is so exquisite. People that come to the White House for Ceremonies took pictures in it in front of its iconic main feature, which was grass and roses. He is making alterations that he may like, but a lot of people think all the gold is, dare I say, tacky and he plans to do more of it. This is from the New York Times. The Trump administration is using a no bid contract to spruce up some of the Capitol's more obscure features for overlooked statutes. The statues, all 19 foot tall, humans and horses, have been deteriorating. But this spring, the government decided that the figures needed to be covered in 23.75 karat gold lace and that the job has to be done before the country's 250th grade birthday. Government solution was a familiar one. The Trump administration said again, it needed to bypass the legally required process of seeking competitive bids. So I guess, Angela, my, my question is about both grifting, stealing, extorting, and making some of these things so gaudy and so hideously ugly that the design process was part of the checks and balances. It was part of how we made sure that these things were things that stewards of our nation's capital beauty made sure they were all improvements. What do we do with all the gold?
- [28:03]
Angelo Carusone
I mean, I think a lot. Well, one, we, it should all come down. Obviously there's stuff that's, that, you know, that that's not gonna sit. We shouldn't let it stand. We shouldn't let these kinds of things stand. Maybe it is an improvement, but somebody that needs to make that decision, the, the entities that were decided to do it. And I think that's the constant refrain that we should have all the time. It's not just that we're going to undo all these things. They're really small things because that's what these are. These are veneers to reinforce a mythology that Trump is engaging in. That is part of his, that is what he's doing. He's telling a story that this is the golden age of America. I mean, literally says it and then he's wrapping gold around all of the symbols of America. Right. I mean it is, it's very obvious what's happening here. It's a part of that mythology is trying to make manifest and make it become real. And that to some degree, small bubble, got to take these things down or undo the namings at a bigger level. It's just like we were talking about with the ballroom said, we're also not going to let that go away either, that if you participated in those things, there should be an investigation about the nature of what the expectations were. It's one thing if you obeyed in advance, that can be the court of public opinion. But if you did something more nefarious than that, you should be held accountable for that as a corporation. And we just don't know. But we shouldn't let them get a pass because they were scared of what Donald Trump may do. And that should be the story that we're all telling, is that we're not going to let the people that participated in this and enabled it get away with it. And so just as the symbols are important to Trump, although I think he's lost so much of the plot now, it's going to be hard for him to really prop up that mythology. He's going to have to rely on brute force to continue this anti democratic trend. But we should have our own story, which is how we're going to restore an actual functioning democracy with, as you noted, checks and balances.
- [29:41]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Or at least some people who decorate better than the guy that puts gold toilets everywhere and his design, I mean, I follow a lot of, I'm not good at it, but I, I read a lot about design. I don't see a lot of all gold rooms anywhere in El Decor or anywhere else. David from Angelo Carson, Robert Weissman, thank you so much for starting us off today. After the break. Judges are drawing a line in the sand now over the attacks from Donald Trump and his allies. We'll bring you that reporting next.
- [30:24]
Narrator/Announcer
Soldiers, you are about to embark upon the great crusade.
- [30:27]
Movie Trailer Voice
From Focus Features and the producers of Darkest Hour. There are two major storms advancing towards the Normandy coast this weekend on the anniversary of D Day. If you invade to tomorrow, they're going to be washed away. Honor their courage.
- [30:39]
Nicole Wallace
Get my men onto the beaches somehow.
- [30:41]
Movie Trailer Voice
Anyhow, see their story.
- [30:43]
Narrator/Announcer
We will accept nothing less than full victory.
- [30:47]
Movie Trailer Voice
Fresher the untold true story of d day. Ready. PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13 now playing only in theaters Monday.comAI
- [30:55]
Robert Weissman
agents took over my work and I absolutely love it.
- [30:57]
Narrator/Announcer
Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders.
- [31:01]
Nicole Wallace
Agents handle the daily grind. Now I stay in the loop only when it matters. Create your own AI agent in minutes
- [31:07]
Narrator/Announcer
on Monday.com Sunday, June 14 from Washington, D.C. a special live taping of MSNOW's hit podcast the Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Join her as she talks with actor and author Billy Eichner. They'll explore the power of humor in the face of adversity and Eichner's new audio memoir, Billy on Billy. The Blueprint with Jen Psaki. Live with Billy Eichner. Get your tickets today at 6th and I.org
- [31:39]
Jim Comey
we live in a reality based world where people, if they're going to make accusations, have to make them in front of judges, have to put evidence forward, have to swear that things are true. I believe in our judiciary. I believe in that, that one remaining leg of our three legged stool, that independent judiciary, is alive and well and gives me great comfort
- [32:04]
Nicole Wallace
in the years since former director of the FBI Jim Comey made those comments on this program. And our democracy has been balancing on that one leg of the stool. Someone pointed out to me that a stool doesn't stand on one leg, it falls over. Put a pin in that and take this in. Judge after judge after judge has been since that moment, leading up to that moment ruling against Donald Trump's excesses and the administration's attacks on our institutions. And as that one remaining leg holds strong and holds steady and pushes back, there is a consequence for that as well. For their strength. The rhetoric against them from Donald Trump and his allies has been turned up to volume. Blare your eardrums out. NBC News is reporting on this alarming statistic. Quote, so far this year, there have been 324 threats against 253 federal judges. That's according to the U.S. marshals Service, the federal agency tasked with protecting our federal judges. Last year there were 564 threats tracked by the agency for Federal District Judge Esther Salas, who lost her son Daniel 6 years ago and he was murdered by an aggrieved former lawyer who showed up at her house to hurt her person, killed her son. It is clear to her what is causing this rise in threats.
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Judge Esther Salas
I think I've said it before, but I want to be very explicit today. I think this is intentional by those individuals from the top down who are rolling out this negative PR campaign. I think it's very intentional. I don't think this is sort of them just speaking their passion. This is an intentional act.
- [33:53]
Nicole Wallace
What's the goal?
- [33:54]
Judge Esther Salas
Well, I'll tell you, there are two. From my perspective, the first goal is they want to erode the public's confidence in the justice system. When you say something, Gary is broken over and over and over again. And it's not, you know, we're here to tell you it's not. The secondary reason from my opinion as Daniel's mom, is that if something happens to one of my brothers or sisters on the bench, they had it coming. You make us villains, you demonize us and therefore we're not that worth we're not worth fighting for. I think that, Doctor, Our president on down, have engaged in such irresponsible rhetoric that gives, really, the public, and in particular sometimes the mentally vulnerable, a green light to go ahead and come after us.
- [34:46]
Nicole Wallace
Joining me now at the table, one of my heroes, United States District Judge for the District of New Jersey, Esther Salas. Wow. Here we are.
- [34:57]
Angelo Carusone
Here we are.
- [34:58]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, we started talking when we were looking at, like, structural, systematic reforms to make sure that what happened to Daniel never happened to anybody. Right. And I feel like what's changed and what's changed in you is that it is so specific, it is so explicit, and you're now assigning motive.
- [35:18]
Judge Esther Salas
I am. You know, I've always been very careful. I guess that's a trait of a judicial officer.
- [35:24]
Robert Weissman
Right.
- [35:25]
Judge Esther Salas
You know, you wait till all the.
- [35:26]
Nicole Wallace
And a mom.
- [35:28]
Judge Esther Salas
And you wait till all the facts are in, and then you. And you make a. You make a sound call. I'm making a sound call right now. And that call is evidence that this administration, from the president on down, is on an. Has an agenda. It's that negative PR campaign that they've been rolling out, you know, viciously. I mean, from the president on down, calling us monsters, that we hate America, that, you know, we're legal insurrectionists. I mean, the president recently called us criminals on, you know, addressing a national audience. You know, when you start to villainize us, when you start to call us these names, when you are now pretty much declaring war, as we know the acting Attorney General did at one point in front of a live audience this week.
- [36:18]
Angelo Carusone
Ye.
- [36:19]
Judge Esther Salas
You know, when you start basically saying it's a war on judges, and you use this terminology. There is two reasons. One, you want the public to not trust the justice system. You want them to think there's something nefarious. You know, when you say, I think it was recently that it's impossible for me to be treated fairly, that came from our President of the United States of America. So when you say these kinds of things, you are eroding the public confidence in the justice system. And that is intentional, no doubt. And the secondary, which is, as Daniel's mom, the more nefarious reason is if something were to happen to one of us, we have it coming. And that to me now, and, you know, I've never spoken like this, and I feel the need now to speak this way because we need as Americans to understand that we are in a dangerous territory right now. We are in uncharted, unprecedented waters. And I want to be very clear, because I have been an equal opportunity denouncer when I thought the Supreme Court was being treated unfairly, when people were picketing their homes. I went on Fox News, I went on.
- [37:37]
Nicole Wallace
You talked about it here.
- [37:38]
Judge Esther Salas
I talked about it here. And I said it was wrong then. It's wrong when the right does it. It's wrong when the left does it. One of our justices homes were swatted last week. It's now like a blip in the news cycle because we're normalizing it, Nicole. We're normalizing this violence. We're normalizing the intimidation. We're normalizing the senseless, irresponsible rhetoric from our president on down. We're normalizing that. And that cannot happen. And that's why I'm here. And that's why people like Judge Ludick and that's why Judge Jones, that's why we're doing our part to sort of say to the American public, you have the power to say, no, that's not the way I want to live my life. And so around my kitchen table, I'm going to have a standard I want to live by and I want my family to live by, but I'm also going to have a standard of what I want my national leaders to do. And that's what, what Americans can do all across this country.
- [38:39]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I want to ask you what you would say to Donald Trump because he does save some of his harshest attacks for his own appointees on the Supreme Court.
- [38:49]
Judge Esther Salas
You know, I would ask the president, along with all of the members of the administration as well as all our political leaders. But you know what? All of us, to start being impeccable with our words, to start realizing that words matter, how we treat each other, that matters. And I find myself saying it over and over and over again. But you know what? As Danny's mom, I am going to say it over and over and over again because we have to get back to civility. We have to get return to love. I keep saying that. Return to love. I'm wearing a heart on my.
- [39:26]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, I saw it. Yeah.
- [39:27]
Judge Esther Salas
And it's got Danny and me in it. And it's a return to love. We have to start being kinder to one another. That doesn't mean we, you know, we can all disagree, but can we disagree agreeably?
- [39:39]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Yeah. I want to ask you about what's been happening on that front as well and how you're keeping him alive. Because all this, you are more fierce in your condemnations of Trump, but I know it's all connected to what's also been done in Danny's name this year, being said in his name. So I'm just taking a break a little bit.
- [39:59]
Angelo Carusone
Sure, Absolutely.
- [40:00]
Nicole Wallace
We'll all be right back. We're back with Judge Esther Salas, one of my favorite humans. A lot of people will privately say, and we were just talking about businesses. This is something I hear a lot. You know, we really rely on the rule of law, but the judiciary is holding up. What do you need from all those people who are choosing to stay silent and put it all on that one strained, endangered leg of the stool?
- [40:33]
Judge Esther Salas
I just think that we all need to sort of say that this violence, this senseless rhetoric has to stop. And it really starts with everyone at their kitchen table and moving on out to their neighbors and beyond. I mean, I think people need to start fact checking. I think people need to say when we see a talking head or when we see a post on some large
- [40:55]
Nicole Wallace
platform, well, dhs, you said, has a website attacking on judges. Donald Trump said something this week. Todd Blanche said something this week. They're the Department of Homeland Security, the President of the United States, and the country's new attorney general.
- [41:07]
Judge Esther Salas
Yeah. That's why I tell people who say to me, oh, this has happened in the past. I'm sorry, no. At one point, maybe it was apples to apples. We're now apples to watermelons. And we have now national websites, government websites, spreading lies about judges and putting those judges at risk. That's never been done before. We've never had a sitting president call judges and hating America and, you know, basically pretty much calling us criminals and rogue and, oh, I don't know, corrupt and all the other things that have been spewed from our national leader, that our American public looks, you know, for our leaders to guide them on how to react. And so, you know, if we're not gonna get it from our leaders, then let's start doing it ourselves and start fact checking. If somebody says a judge did something, go, please read the opinion, see what actually the judge has done. I think we have to now, you know, with the algorithm constantly pumping out just what you want to hear, we got to force ourselves to go to another spot and fact check even the people that we admire and even the
- [42:14]
Nicole Wallace
people that the president, you know, we respect.
- [42:16]
Judge Esther Salas
I mean, I would say that to anyone that if you're sitting around the kitchen table and your uncle or aunt starts to say something that, you know, Perhaps is not 100% accurate, you know, maybe we can start having a dialogue at home and Nationally, about the truth and facts, because they matter.
- [42:35]
Nicole Wallace
He's made that really hard, too. I can say from experience. Let me ask you. I know you center all of this around. You always have him here.
- [42:42]
Judge Esther Salas
I always do. He's always.
- [42:43]
Nicole Wallace
I have him. He's on my desk, too.
- [42:45]
Judge Esther Salas
I'm gonna give you another one.
- [42:46]
Nicole Wallace
I know. I love it.
- [42:47]
Judge Esther Salas
I love having this picture.
- [42:48]
Nicole Wallace
You have the pantry in his name, and there's a race coming up on the 14th. Just talk about how. I mean, I know that all your work is centered on love for him. And I've watched you pick up, like, how's that happen?
- [43:03]
Judge Esther Salas
Yeah, no, I mean, listen, when I said after he was murdered, I just have to stay in the light. I just have to stay in the light.
- [43:09]
Nicole Wallace
I just say that to myself the
- [43:11]
Judge Esther Salas
last time, and I'm saying it in this world right now, that there are things that we're circling around, love and lightness, and that is Danny's Pantry, which we have pantries now opened in federal courthouses that are aimed at helping our problem solving individuals, people in our problem solving courts. There it is. I love that picture. I could just. Just kiss it the screen. And we're trying. We know people can't make good decisions, Nicole, when they're hangry. I've been hangry before. Hungry, angry, lonely and tired. Right. And so our responsibility in the justice system is to try to avoid recidivism by promoting rehabilitation. And we're doing that in our problem solving courts. We've got veterans courts in New Jersey now, and drug courts and reentry courts, and Danny's Pantry services, all of those problem solving courts. So we're doing great things and we're keeping people. We're giving people a reason to come out. Sunday, you know, June 14, run, walk. I plan to, you know, be there just spreading love and light. Because in a time like we're living today, we've got to remember that we need to show love, be love, extend love, because that keeps us going. And I just hope that everybody in some way remembers to just stay in the light and stay in love. And, you know, and our country's birthday's coming. I'm gonna have to come. When we get closer to our country,
- [44:40]
Nicole Wallace
I'm gonna come and do the fact checking. I think we need to do that here. I think it's harder. I think, you know, this. It's hard. It's hard when people have been taking in the wrong information for years and years.
- [44:50]
Judge Esther Salas
Yeah. You know, I think when you say something over and over, and over again, like the justice system is broken, people begin to believe it. But I'm here to tell people that we live in the greatest country in the world. I really do believe this. And I see the juries come back with the right verdicts and I see judges across this country making a call on the law and nothing else. We need to remember what we're founded on and we need to remember our country's birthday coming up and remember what our founding fathers what they expected 3 CO/2 of government to work in unison and not always get along, but to respect one another and to stay in our lanes. And so I just hope that all of us continue to love the liberties that we have and love this country and love each other.
- [45:37]
Nicole Wallace
You're the best.
- [45:38]
Judge Esther Salas
You're the best.
- [45:38]
Nicole Wallace
Thank you for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. If you want to participate in the 5K run to benefit Dani's Pantry or learn more, you scan the QR code there on your screen. Thank you so much again for being here. Judge Ellis. Up next, A trio of 60 minutes corresponding are speaking out in the wake of the firing of their beloved colleague Scott Pelley. As you know, we've been covering the turmoil at CBS News in 60 Minutes all week. Well, today three correspondents are speaking out. Leslie Stahl, Bill Whitaker and John Wertheim, all announcing in an internal memo that they plan to to stay with 60 minutes, but they push back on recent decisions from leadership, from their joint statement, quote, newsrooms are not supposed to be run like dictatorships. Collaboration and argument are the way we have always worked at 60. We don't want to see 60 Minutes die. We have been grieving because this whole mess has wounded and damaged the broadcast. We want to stay and fight, try to repair and preserve our reputation. If we can continue doing the work that made this show what it is, committing acts of independent, fearless journalism and storytelling, we're here for it. If not, we leave. We'll stay on top of that story coming up for us. Donald Trump says he wants his top intelligence official to gut the country's intelligence agencies. That alarming new reporting after a quick break. Stay with us.
- [47:21]
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