Deadline: White House

Episode: "Words of advice for Democrats"
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Guests: Michelle Norris, John Heilemann, Basil Smichel, Gov. Ned Lamont, DA Larry Krasner

Episode Overview

On this episode, Nicolle Wallace leads a wide-ranging, urgent conversation on the existential threats facing American democracy under President Donald Trump’s administration. Drawing on the voices and resolve of key Democratic state leaders and legal officials, Wallace and her guests analyze the erosion of foundational norms, the rise of state-level resistance, and—the heart of the hour—what Democrats must do to fight back and ultimately prevail. The show cuts through policy disputes to the core crisis: the survival of democracy, the rule of law, and the muscle needed from Democrats at every level to push back, organize, and win.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Gravity of the Moment: Threats to Democracy ([01:04]–[04:24])

• Opening Charge: Larry Krasner and Nicolle Wallace set an urgent tone, warning that the U.S. is "losing this country in real time" as Trump administration replaces the "rule of law" with "rule of 'Don't'" ([01:04]—Krasner).
• Erosion of Norms: Wallace details unprecedented steps in Trump’s seven months back in office—armed National Guard in D.C., federal power grabs, firing of officials who cross him, efforts to restrict voting, and overtures to dictators ([01:39]).
  • Quote (Nicolle Wallace, 01:39):
    "Power grabs, actual, not figurative, actual power grabs by the Trump administration at every level and everywhere we look."

2. Democratic Governors and the Rise of Structural Resistance ([04:24]–[06:45])

• Gavin Newsom’s Defiance: Newsom and other governors (J.B. Pritzker, Wes Moore) are highlighted for standing up to Trump’s actions, offering a model for combative, clear opposition.
  • Quote (Newsom via Krasner, 04:24):
    "Donald Trump wants to use the military to occupy a US City, punish his dissidents and score political points... He tried to light democracy on fire."
• Tone Shift from Dems: Wallace brushes aside the old "when they go low, we go high" strategy, crediting Newsom and Pritzker for embracing a fighting posture that meets the gravity of the threat.

3. Rhetoric, Courage, and Mobilizing the Base ([06:45]–[09:16])

• Michel Norris on Fighting Back: Notes the growing courage among blue state governors—not just rhetoric, but mobilization and real policy resistance.
  • Quote (Michel Norris, 06:45):
    "You're seeing more courage, but you're also seeing them understanding now how to punch back where his weak spots are, how they can rally the forces."
• Warnings Ignored: Norris and Wallace cite predictions by John Kelly, Kamala Harris, and others that Trump’s return would create a combustible, dangerous situation.

4. Democratic Messaging and the Challenge of Intensity ([10:32]–[17:41])

• Trump’s Sensitivity to Optics: Wallace & Heilemann observe Trump remains sensitive to public protests and criticism, if not to policy pushback.
• Intensity Gap: Democrats traditionally have facts and public support, but often lack the ferocious intensity Trump brings to propaganda; this may be changing, especially with leaders like Newsom using Trump’s own tools (social media, provocation) to fight back.
  • Quote (Wallace, 12:51):
    "The right is an absolute puddle of snowflakes has been exposed by Gavin Newsom."
• Pragmatism Over Persuasion: Heilemann insists the goal should not be to change Trump’s mind, but to win power and institutional authority back.
  • Quote (Heilemann, 17:42):
    "I think Democrats need to be focused on doing the right thing... and they have to be able to make arguments to voters that will allow them to win the congressional elections in 2026. That has to be the highest priority."

5. State-Level Resistance: Governor Ned Lamont Interview ([21:31]–[27:38])

• On State Protection from ICE Raids: Lamont passionately opposes federal ICE targeting of non-criminal immigrants in Connecticut, vowing to keep education and public spaces safe.
  • Quote (Lamont, 23:07):
    "You're not picking up criminals, you're picking up innocent kids. We used to call them dreamers. And I want them here in Connecticut."
• Response to Militarization: Rejects National Guard deployment to CT cities; urges reliance on community policing over federal military force.
  • Quote (Lamont, 24:37):
    "This militarization of our streets makes no sense at all."
• Communicating the Stakes: Lamont says Connecticut residents increasingly realize the true stakes—whether medical care, immigration, or reliable power—in their daily lives due to Trump’s policies.
• Wind Farm Controversy: Details federal halting of a key wind project, highlighting deliberate obstruction despite advanced investment and its importance to regional power.

6. Prosecutorial Resistance: DA Larry Krasner Interview ([28:19]–[43:35])

• Legal Tools Against Federal Overreach: Krasner underscores state prosecution as a check on federal actors, emphasizing Trump has “zero ability to pardon someone who is convicted in state court.”
  • Quote (Krasner, 28:19):
    “If you have people coming in, military, ICE, whoever it is, acting beyond their legal authority, they can be prosecuted... and they cannot be pardoned by the president.”
• Advocating Blunt, Fearless Messaging: Calls for Democrats and voters to be "loud and proud"—to resist both passivity and corporate centrism from party elites.
  • Quote (Krasner, 29:32):
    "We are not going to have anybody, no matter how wealthy or how powerful, come into Philadelphia, come into other American cities and commit crimes. If they do that, they need to have a consequence."
• Systemic Critique: Explains Democrats have failed to own obvious truths—like dramatically lower homicide rates in blue vs. red states—and must reclaim compelling narratives.
  • Quote (Krasner, 35:44):
    "If your Democratic elected official doesn't know how to speak up loudly, proudly, and without fear, then we need a different Democrat in that position."
• Reality for Democratic State Leadership: Krasner and guests discuss how many Democrats, particularly at the national and career-political level, have been slow or reluctant to engage in this street-level political fight, contrasted with more activist state/local Dems.

7. Voter Mobilization and the 2026 Midterms ([41:00]–[43:35])

• Voter Turnout as Salvation: Echoes the conclusion—only a decisive Democratic win in the 2026 midterms can avert further disaster, and Democrats must urgently register, organize, and turn out every possible voter.
  • Quote (Krasner, 41:00):
    "The last electoral hope to save this country from the coup that Donald Trump is clearly setting up... is one in which we have to have a massive win in the midterms."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Losing the Country:
  Larry Krasner ([01:04]): "Wake up. We're losing this country in real time. This is not bloviation. This is not exaggeration. It's happening."
• Rule of Law vs. Rule of 'Don't':
  Nicolle Wallace ([01:39]): "It is about democracy, whether it endures. It is about right and wrong and whether we are on the right side of any of this. It's about the rule of law, whether we still have one, which the governor aptly put as being replaced by the rule of dawn."
• Punching Back:
  Michelle Norris ([06:45]): "You have to meet the moment. It seems like these are governors who are engaged in a fight where they now understand the rules of engagement."
• Intensity Gap:
  John Heilemann ([15:38]): "Democrats need to regain power in America, and if they want to stop Donald Trump, they need to have an institutional way to do that... I think Democrats need to be focused on doing the right thing... that will allow them to win the congressional elections in 2026."
• Stand Firm Against Federal Overreach:
  Ned Lamont ([23:07]): "You're not picking up criminals, you're picking up innocent kids. We used to call them dreamers. And I want them here in Connecticut. I want them to feel safe here."
• No Military on State Streets:
  Ned Lamont ([24:37]): "militarization of our streets makes no sense at all."
• Power of State Prosecution:
  Larry Krasner ([28:19]): "That important tool is called state prosecution. The president of the United States has zero ability to pardon someone who is convicted in state court."
• On Democratic Messaging:
  Larry Krasner ([35:44]): "Democrats. If your Democratic elected official doesn't know how to speak up loudly, proudly, and without fear, then we need a different Democrat in that position."
• Midterms as a Remedy:
  Larry Krasner ([41:00]): "The last electoral hope to save this country from the coup that Donald Trump is clearly setting up... we have to have a massive win in the midterms."

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:04] Opening urgency: "Wake up. We're losing this country in real time."
• [04:24] Gavin Newsom's call to arms, reactions from Wallace and panel.
• [06:45] Michel Norris on Democratic governors' fighting stance.
• [08:00] Ezra Klein piece on Trump’s mass deportation and breakdown of order.
• [12:51] Gavin Newsom uses Trump’s own social tactics—Fox News reacts.
• [15:38] Heilemann on the futility of expecting Trump to change; focus on winning.
• [21:31] Governor Ned Lamont interview—standing up to federal ICE, military action.
• [28:19] Larry Krasner details plan for legal resistance to federal overreach.
• [35:44] Krasner: Dems must own their winning stats, shed passivity.
• [41:00] Krasner’s call: Mobilize for the midterms as the last line of defense.

Tone and Language

• Frank, urgent, sometimes fiery — matching the “street fight” political moment.
• Guests use plainspoken, accessible, sometimes combative rhetoric ("wake the F up speech", "I ain't backing down", "raise hell").
• Hosts and panelists are openly critical of Democratic timidity and the “corporate Democrat” drift.

Summary Takeaways

• Existential stakes: U.S. democracy is under unprecedented attack—Democrats can no longer rely on niceties or tradition-bound strategy.
• State-level action rocks: Blue-state governors and DAs lead with boldness, taking direct action against Trump’s autocratic moves.
• Messaging and optics: Democrats must fight with intensity and clarity, using facts plus emotional resonance.
• Public mobilization is key: The fight isn’t just politicians—it’s activating every potential Democratic voter.
• 2026 midterms are pivotal: A resounding Democratic win is seen as the nonviolent antidote to Trump’s drift toward authoritarianism.

This episode serves as a rallying call for Democrats to get organized, get loud, and get out the vote—or risk losing the very foundations of democracy. The shift from “going high” to fighting hard is now not just advice, but a requirement.