“Words of advice for Democrats”

Summary

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Deadline: White House

Episode: "Words of advice for Democrats"
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Nicolle Wallace
Guests: Michelle Norris, John Heilemann, Basil Smichel, Gov. Ned Lamont, DA Larry Krasner

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Nicolle Wallace leads a wide-ranging, urgent conversation on the existential threats facing American democracy under President Donald Trump’s administration. Drawing on the voices and resolve of key Democratic state leaders and legal officials, Wallace and her guests analyze the erosion of foundational norms, the rise of state-level resistance, and—the heart of the hour—what Democrats must do to fight back and ultimately prevail. The show cuts through policy disputes to the core crisis: the survival of democracy, the rule of law, and the muscle needed from Democrats at every level to push back, organize, and win.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Gravity of the Moment: Threats to Democracy ([01:04]–[04:24])

• Opening Charge: Larry Krasner and Nicolle Wallace set an urgent tone, warning that the U.S. is "losing this country in real time" as Trump administration replaces the "rule of law" with "rule of 'Don't'" ([01:04]—Krasner).
• Erosion of Norms: Wallace details unprecedented steps in Trump’s seven months back in office—armed National Guard in D.C., federal power grabs, firing of officials who cross him, efforts to restrict voting, and overtures to dictators ([01:39]).
  • Quote (Nicolle Wallace, 01:39):
    "Power grabs, actual, not figurative, actual power grabs by the Trump administration at every level and everywhere we look."

2. Democratic Governors and the Rise of Structural Resistance ([04:24]–[06:45])

• Gavin Newsom’s Defiance: Newsom and other governors (J.B. Pritzker, Wes Moore) are highlighted for standing up to Trump’s actions, offering a model for combative, clear opposition.
  • Quote (Newsom via Krasner, 04:24):
    "Donald Trump wants to use the military to occupy a US City, punish his dissidents and score political points... He tried to light democracy on fire."
• Tone Shift from Dems: Wallace brushes aside the old "when they go low, we go high" strategy, crediting Newsom and Pritzker for embracing a fighting posture that meets the gravity of the threat.

3. Rhetoric, Courage, and Mobilizing the Base ([06:45]–[09:16])

• Michel Norris on Fighting Back: Notes the growing courage among blue state governors—not just rhetoric, but mobilization and real policy resistance.
  • Quote (Michel Norris, 06:45):
    "You're seeing more courage, but you're also seeing them understanding now how to punch back where his weak spots are, how they can rally the forces."
• Warnings Ignored: Norris and Wallace cite predictions by John Kelly, Kamala Harris, and others that Trump’s return would create a combustible, dangerous situation.

4. Democratic Messaging and the Challenge of Intensity ([10:32]–[17:41])

• Trump’s Sensitivity to Optics: Wallace & Heilemann observe Trump remains sensitive to public protests and criticism, if not to policy pushback.
• Intensity Gap: Democrats traditionally have facts and public support, but often lack the ferocious intensity Trump brings to propaganda; this may be changing, especially with leaders like Newsom using Trump’s own tools (social media, provocation) to fight back.
  • Quote (Wallace, 12:51):
    "The right is an absolute puddle of snowflakes has been exposed by Gavin Newsom."
• Pragmatism Over Persuasion: Heilemann insists the goal should not be to change Trump’s mind, but to win power and institutional authority back.
  • Quote (Heilemann, 17:42):
    "I think Democrats need to be focused on doing the right thing... and they have to be able to make arguments to voters that will allow them to win the congressional elections in 2026. That has to be the highest priority."

5. State-Level Resistance: Governor Ned Lamont Interview ([21:31]–[27:38])

• On State Protection from ICE Raids: Lamont passionately opposes federal ICE targeting of non-criminal immigrants in Connecticut, vowing to keep education and public spaces safe.
  • Quote (Lamont, 23:07):
    "You're not picking up criminals, you're picking up innocent kids. We used to call them dreamers. And I want them here in Connecticut."
• Response to Militarization: Rejects National Guard deployment to CT cities; urges reliance on community policing over federal military force.
  • Quote (Lamont, 24:37):
    "This militarization of our streets makes no sense at all."
• Communicating the Stakes: Lamont says Connecticut residents increasingly realize the true stakes—whether medical care, immigration, or reliable power—in their daily lives due to Trump’s policies.
• Wind Farm Controversy: Details federal halting of a key wind project, highlighting deliberate obstruction despite advanced investment and its importance to regional power.

6. Prosecutorial Resistance: DA Larry Krasner Interview ([28:19]–[43:35])

• Legal Tools Against Federal Overreach: Krasner underscores state prosecution as a check on federal actors, emphasizing Trump has “zero ability to pardon someone who is convicted in state court.”
  • Quote (Krasner, 28:19):
    “If you have people coming in, military, ICE, whoever it is, acting beyond their legal authority, they can be prosecuted... and they cannot be pardoned by the president.”
• Advocating Blunt, Fearless Messaging: Calls for Democrats and voters to be "loud and proud"—to resist both passivity and corporate centrism from party elites.
  • Quote (Krasner, 29:32):
    "We are not going to have anybody, no matter how wealthy or how powerful, come into Philadelphia, come into other American cities and commit crimes. If they do that, they need to have a consequence."
• Systemic Critique: Explains Democrats have failed to own obvious truths—like dramatically lower homicide rates in blue vs. red states—and must reclaim compelling narratives.
  • Quote (Krasner, 35:44):
    "If your Democratic elected official doesn't know how to speak up loudly, proudly, and without fear, then we need a different Democrat in that position."
• Reality for Democratic State Leadership: Krasner and guests discuss how many Democrats, particularly at the national and career-political level, have been slow or reluctant to engage in this street-level political fight, contrasted with more activist state/local Dems.

7. Voter Mobilization and the 2026 Midterms ([41:00]–[43:35])

• Voter Turnout as Salvation: Echoes the conclusion—only a decisive Democratic win in the 2026 midterms can avert further disaster, and Democrats must urgently register, organize, and turn out every possible voter.
  • Quote (Krasner, 41:00):
    "The last electoral hope to save this country from the coup that Donald Trump is clearly setting up... is one in which we have to have a massive win in the midterms."

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Losing the Country:
  Larry Krasner ([01:04]): "Wake up. We're losing this country in real time. This is not bloviation. This is not exaggeration. It's happening."
• Rule of Law vs. Rule of 'Don't':
  Nicolle Wallace ([01:39]): "It is about democracy, whether it endures. It is about right and wrong and whether we are on the right side of any of this. It's about the rule of law, whether we still have one, which the governor aptly put as being replaced by the rule of dawn."
• Punching Back:
  Michelle Norris ([06:45]): "You have to meet the moment. It seems like these are governors who are engaged in a fight where they now understand the rules of engagement."
• Intensity Gap:
  John Heilemann ([15:38]): "Democrats need to regain power in America, and if they want to stop Donald Trump, they need to have an institutional way to do that... I think Democrats need to be focused on doing the right thing... that will allow them to win the congressional elections in 2026."
• Stand Firm Against Federal Overreach:
  Ned Lamont ([23:07]): "You're not picking up criminals, you're picking up innocent kids. We used to call them dreamers. And I want them here in Connecticut. I want them to feel safe here."
• No Military on State Streets:
  Ned Lamont ([24:37]): "militarization of our streets makes no sense at all."
• Power of State Prosecution:
  Larry Krasner ([28:19]): "That important tool is called state prosecution. The president of the United States has zero ability to pardon someone who is convicted in state court."
• On Democratic Messaging:
  Larry Krasner ([35:44]): "Democrats. If your Democratic elected official doesn't know how to speak up loudly, proudly, and without fear, then we need a different Democrat in that position."
• Midterms as a Remedy:
  Larry Krasner ([41:00]): "The last electoral hope to save this country from the coup that Donald Trump is clearly setting up... we have to have a massive win in the midterms."

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:04] Opening urgency: "Wake up. We're losing this country in real time."
• [04:24] Gavin Newsom's call to arms, reactions from Wallace and panel.
• [06:45] Michel Norris on Democratic governors' fighting stance.
• [08:00] Ezra Klein piece on Trump’s mass deportation and breakdown of order.
• [12:51] Gavin Newsom uses Trump’s own social tactics—Fox News reacts.
• [15:38] Heilemann on the futility of expecting Trump to change; focus on winning.
• [21:31] Governor Ned Lamont interview—standing up to federal ICE, military action.
• [28:19] Larry Krasner details plan for legal resistance to federal overreach.
• [35:44] Krasner: Dems must own their winning stats, shed passivity.
• [41:00] Krasner’s call: Mobilize for the midterms as the last line of defense.

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Tone and Language

• Frank, urgent, sometimes fiery — matching the “street fight” political moment.
• Guests use plainspoken, accessible, sometimes combative rhetoric ("wake the F up speech", "I ain't backing down", "raise hell").
• Hosts and panelists are openly critical of Democratic timidity and the “corporate Democrat” drift.

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Summary Takeaways

• Existential stakes: U.S. democracy is under unprecedented attack—Democrats can no longer rely on niceties or tradition-bound strategy.
• State-level action rocks: Blue-state governors and DAs lead with boldness, taking direct action against Trump’s autocratic moves.
• Messaging and optics: Democrats must fight with intensity and clarity, using facts plus emotional resonance.
• Public mobilization is key: The fight isn’t just politicians—it’s activating every potential Democratic voter.
• 2026 midterms are pivotal: A resounding Democratic win is seen as the nonviolent antidote to Trump’s drift toward authoritarianism.

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This episode serves as a rallying call for Democrats to get organized, get loud, and get out the vote—or risk losing the very foundations of democracy. The shift from “going high” to fighting hard is now not just advice, but a requirement.

Transcript

[Larry Krasner]

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[Nicole Wallace]

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[Larry Krasner]

Wake up. We're losing this country in real time. This is not bloviation. This is not exaggeration. It's happening. You don't get a do over 249 years. Those enduring values. Best of Roman Republic, Greek Democracy, Co = branches of government, popular sovereignty. The rule of law is being replaced with the rule of don't. Period. Full stop. And so we have to assert ourselves with more clarity and conviction.

[Nicole Wallace]

Hi again Everybody. It's now five o'clock in the east. More clarity and conviction and a plea to all Americans to wake up. Words of urgent words from Democrats, from the man currently taking on Donald Trump with seemingly everything he's got. California's Governor Gavin Newsom, with every pushback, every speech, every interview, every tweet, every maneuver, even trolling that Gavin Newsom does to get at Trump. He seems to be getting under Trump's skin and getting at the heart of what this fight is about and where it is being waged. It is a fight so much more about the foundations of our country than just debates about different policies. It is about democracy, whether it endures. It is about right and wrong and whether we are on the right side of any of this. It's about the rule of law, whether we still have one, which the governor aptly put as being replaced by the rule of dawn. That rule of dawn is making its mark on our government already in the seven months since Donald Trump took office, especially this summer, where we have seen power grabs, actual, not figurative, actual power grabs by the Trump administration at every level and everywhere we look. Just tick through what's happened in the last couple weeks. National Guard troops are now actively deployed in our nation's capital, ones that as of this week, are now armed. Multiple officials have been fired for not giving Donald Trump exactly the data or the answers or the responses he wants, the latest of whom being the CDC director who wasn't in line with the HHS secretary enough. Donald Trump rolled out an actual red carpet and built a blue platform to stand on together next to a world leader well known to be a vicious dictator and wanted for war crimes by the icc. Trump has floated stopping states from voting by mail and from using voting machines. And that's just a few. It would take the whole hour to go through all of them. In response to these blatantly anti Democratic steps, we have started to see a rise in opposition on the grassroots side with numerous town hall meetings that we've shown you, some of erupting into angry shouting matches as voters voice their discontent with their elected representatives. A structural opposition is also starting to emerge. Multiple governors are standing up and leading a charge against Donald Trump's autocratic policies and rhetoric. J.B. pritzker of Illinois, Wes Moore of Maryland, and of course, Gavin Newsom of California. Take a listen.

[Larry Krasner]

Donald Trump wants to use the military to occupy a US City, punish his dissidents and score political points. If this were happening in any other country, we would have no trouble calling it what it is, a dangerous power grab. I'm standing my guard. And we are locked in to make sure that our people will continue to grow and thrive and succeed in this moment, despite the fact that we're watching a federal government who seems to make my communities and our neighborhoods some kind of punchline. He tried to light democracy on fire. He dialed for 11, almost 12,000 votes. Now he's doing it in plain sight. And people say, oh, it's just Trump being Trump. People actually think this guy's serious about having another election. You think he's joking about 2028?

[John Heilman]

Wake up.

[Larry Krasner]

Let me ask you about a couple. Yes, man, I know it's impolite. We have to be more calm and demure. Couple of your honor, but I'm not calm. And I'm not going to submit myself to niceties, not when this guy's trying to wreck our goddamn country.

[Nicole Wallace]

As polls overall keep showing brutal, alarmingly low appro ratings for Donald Trump's agenda, a new Quinnipiac poll shows just 37% of all Americans approve of the job Donald Trump is doing. It echoes other recent surveys like the Gallup poll. All throughout the hour, we'll take a look at this growing resistance from Democrats at the local level and the national level and the state level, everything in between. It's where we start the hour. Some of our favorite experts and friends with us for the hour. MSNBC senior contributing editor Michel Norris is back. And lucky for us, MSNBC political and national affairs analyst Tony John Heilman and Basil Smichel are back with us as well. Michel, I watched this interview by Governor Newsom and coined it the Wake the F Up speech. I do love what seemed to be the worldview from Democrats at one time, which was when they go low, we go high. I think that only worked for Michelle Obama. Nobody else should have followed that advice. And I do like where Gavin Newsom and J.B. pritzker seem to be trying to take the party. Your thoughts?

[Michelle Norris]

Well, even Michelle Obama changed her thoughts on that. If you remember the Democratic National Convention, her tone changed. You have to meet the moment. It seems like these are governors who are engaged in a fight where they now understand the rules of engagement. And you're seeing more courage, but you're also seeing them understanding now how to punch back where his weak spots are, how they can rally the forces. And also, you know, some of this is punching back at Donald Trump, but a lot of this is also just understanding the storm that's coming in their direction because of the cuts in Medicaid, because of the cuts in fema, because of what we just saw this week at the cdc. And I think that other Democrats will likely look at this and find a little bit of spine in their step. Also, you didn't use the clip of Tim Walsh this week also, you know, taking it to Donald Trump and talking about his ankles and, you know, hoping that he can find a comfortable seat because of them. And so I think that some of this is rhetoric. And it's not just rhetoric. The rhetoric is important because it is rallying the base. But it is also governors leading their party and governors understanding that they are now lieutenants in a war.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I want to read you Ezra Klein's comments on what you just said. This is in the New York Times today. Quote, this is Ezra Klein of the New York Times. I don't like any of this. I certainly didn't vote for it, but Trump promised and Americans voted for the biggest deportation operation in US History. It was always going to be ugly and cruel. So I can see that picture and then it flickers my eyes refocus And I see the evisceration of due process. I see detention centers being built where it is extraordinarily hard for lawyers and families to reach the people inside. I see men in masks refusing to identify themselves and pulling people into vans. I see armed US troops in camo, some on horseback, riding through MacArthur park in Los Angeles like they're an occupying army. I see Trump sending in armed to take over the American capital. In an instance, this could all explode. You could have American troops firing on American civilians in an American city, in a country defining crisis. What happens then? Michel? I think a lot of people are starting to say the quiet, anxious stuff out loud, which is that what Trump is setting up is what John Kelly warned about ahead of the election, an incredibly combustible situation.

[Michelle Norris]

John Kelly warned about it. Kamala Harris warned about it. We were warned. And people still voted for Donald Trump. I'm going to quote something else that Ezra Klein said, that Donald Trump acts like a king because he can't govern like a president. And, you know, he had an ambitious agenda. He's not interested in governing, and that's why he does so much by fiat. If you wanted to come into office with this kind of ambitious agenda, you normally would have to convince even people in your party. You'd have to convince the American public. You'd have to legislate these changes. He's not interested in doing that. And that's why we see this heavy hand. That's why we see the cruelty. And his character is on display in these acts. He is a man we're looking at, a president who has a cruel heart. And he has introduced a level of cruelty into our, not just our American politics, but our American life. And when Gavin Newsom says we are losing the country, I don't want to be dark here, but he's talking in the perfect about something that is happening, perhaps, or he's talking in the future about something that's happening down the road. I think we're actually seeing the foundation crumble beneath us. And that's why this kind of action that we're seeing from the governors is just so necessary to push back against this and resist. Because one of the things we know about is even a small amount of resistance can make a difference.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. And I think John Hylman Trump is still very sensitive about public resistance and public perception. I mean, even in his interactions with world leaders, he doesn't like what things look like in Ukraine, in Gaza. And so to see public resistance is one of the. And I'm not saying he's sensitive to it. I'm not saying he's going to change his ways. I'm just saying it still registers. And at a moment in Trump 2.0 when fluctuations in the stock market don't seem to jolt him the way they did in the first term. And I think he was obsessed with the Washington Post the first time. I mean, he doesn't seem to be slowed or halted or impacted by much else, but he is still aware of criticisms of his unpopular policies.

[John Heilman]

I think.

[Larry Krasner]

So.

[John Heilman]

I don't fully know what goes on inside Donald Trump's, and I have a terrible echo here all of a sudden. Nicole, let me come back to you, okay?

[Nicole Wallace]

Let us try to fix it. We'll try to fix it. We'll have some on the fly tech support for you, John Heilman. Basil, let me come to you on what is still sort of this, this untapped power that Gavin Newsom, I think, is tapping into, not just with his tweets. And I want to put some of them up. I mean, he's speaking to the country in Trump's own language. And Fox News is freaking out. I mean, they're just freaking out. They have entire panels dedicated to deciding whether it's, you know, beneath the stature of an elected official to tweet the things Gavin Newsom's tweeting. Hello. Donald Trump has been attacking everyone from Hillary Clinton to Jim Comey to the cast of Hamilton. I mean, we once made a wall of all of the people Donald Trump had attacked on Twitter, and now you could fill a warehous. The whole notion that the right is an absolute puddle of snowflakes has been exposed by Gavin Newsom.

[Basil Smichel]

Yeah, it's ostentatious, it's provocative, but that's what Donald Trump does, and that's largely why he got elected. That's sort of what he would call no nonsense approach to politics. But what I think is what I think a lot of Americans are waking up to. Something that I hear from voters all the time, and I think Governor Newsom touched on in the clip that you played, is that more and more voters don't feel the level of comfort that they used to, that after this administration, things will go back to normal. You know, there are a lot of voters that now feel that not only are we not going back to a normal, that, yes, Donald Trump is going to try to find a way to stay in office longer and that the more he springs the pendulum to one extreme, the likelihood that it will not swing to the middle is more, is greater. And greater every day. And they're concerned about these living in the extremes. And I think that's in many ways what not only Gavin Newsom is talking about, but it's why I think it's starting to animate our state level politics. And you know, I've talked with you, Nicole, often about my interest and desire for more activity at the state level and less and that we don't need to speak to look at the federal government in the same way for that resistance. But you do need both. You need Chuck Schumer to slow walk Donald Trump's nominees, but you need a Gavin Newsom and a Wesmore and a Pritzker and a waltz to because they have that executive authority to say no in my state, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to protect the folks in my state. And by the way, I want everybody else around the country to follow suit. So I think that that kind of state level and hyperlocal resistance to Trump policies is what's not only animating state level politics, but it is what, as you say, it's registering with Donald Trump, the limits to his power and the fear that he has put in so many voters that he's going to swing so far to one extreme that we do not have the mechanism to swing back to any measure of normality. That really is scaring a lot of voters.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, look, I mean, Heilman, is your echo solved?

[John Heilman]

I think so. Yes, it is.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, what I want to come back to you on is this question about intensity. I think that Trump takes a conspiracy theory or a lie and can bolster it with intensity. And that's frankly why the Epstein story has boomeranged on him, because of intensity. The Democrats have had the facts and they've been on the right side of many issues. Not all of them, but many issues. But they've lacked the intensity. I wonder if you see them sort of bridging that gap in intensity.

[John Heilman]

Right. So I think this question Nicole has, that it's the same at the core of it, the same thing as the question you asked me before when my echo knocked me off. And it's premised on it. It's premised on a notion that is totally understandable, which is, you know, we hope that we would like to believe that there's a world in which still some set of actions by Democrats will change Donald Trump's course of behavior, that he will react to the pressure, react to the pressure, react to the media kerfuffle, react to falling poll numbers, react to the fall falling stock market react to some set of inputs, and that if we apply pressure, we Democrats. I'm speaking here in the context of how Democrats like to think about this. If we apply pressure in the right ways, if we fight back this way or fight back that way, we might get Trump to stop or soften or back off. Maybe, maybe.

[Larry Krasner]

I don't know.

[John Heilman]

I don't know how his brain works. I've given up that particular venture trying to understand what happens in that, you know, haunted house up there between his ears. What I think is that, is that Democrats need to go back to a conversation we had at the end of yesterday's show. Democrats need to regain power in America, and if they want to stop Donald Trump, they need to have an institutional way to do that. Donald Trump, his name is not on the ballot in 2026. He is a huge factor in 2026, but he is not on the ballot in 2026. And so I think that people like Gavin Newsom and J.B. pritzker and Wes Moore and others who think that this moment is an extraordinary existential peril for American democracy and requires extraordinary measures, I think they're right about that. But I think what they really have to make sure they're doing if they want to end the nightmare that they foresee and are already living through to some extent, is they have to win. Democrats have to win.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah.

[John Heilman]

And so I don't think we should. I don't think Democrats should be thinking about how do we get Trump to alter his behavior, because that's sort of a sucker's game. I think Democrats need to be focused on doing the right thing, as Basil said a second ago, to protect their citizens from the oncoming march of authoritarianism. And they have to be able to make arguments to voters that will allow them to win the congressional elections in 2026. That has to be the highest priority for Democrats other than protecting their citizens, not scoring points against Trump and not hoping that maybe they'll get him to back off. They got to convince voters of the nature of the threat, and they got to convince voters to vote for them next year.

[Nicole Wallace]

And what's amazing is that they're one in the same, right? Voters want the fight, and the fight is so the fight will benefit them politically, because that's what voters want to see. And then if they prevail in those elections, that's the only way to actually protect voters or do anything to slow down Donald Trump. John, how? And I'm glad we fixed that Basilisk. Michael, thank you both so much for for being part of both hours. We're grateful to both of you for sticking around. Michelle sticks around with us when we come back, a blue state governor will join us next on what this looks like and sounds like when it comes to taking the fight to Donald Trump. At this moment and later in the broadcast, as Trump threatens to send troops into more American cities, Philadelphia's top prosecutor says he's not afraid of holding ICE or the National Guard accountable. DA Larry Krasner will be our guest. Deadline White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere.

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[Larry Krasner]

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[Nicole Wallace]

To be interviewed as well.

[Larry Krasner]

Each week is a blend of conversations and character work from your favorite comedians as well as some new hilarious voices. Comedy Bang Bang the Podcast Listen every Monday wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know 39% of teen drivers.

[Nicole Wallace]

Admit to texting while driving?

[Larry Krasner]

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[Nicole Wallace]

That was Democratic Governor of Maryland Westmore, part of the growing roster of blue state governors who are finding themselves at the center of the big fights against Donald Trump and his policies. From sending federal troops into cities to redistricting battles, to oftentimes violent immigration crackdowns in blue cities. It is Democratic mayors and governors mostly who have stepped up as a bulwark against the Trump administration. Joining our conversation is Connecticut's Democratic Governor, Ned Lamont. Michelle is with us as well, will join me in the questions. Governor, thank you for being here.

[Ned Lamont]

Hey, Nicole. Michelle, nice to see you.

[Nicole Wallace]

Let me read you some reporting on what Trump's mass deportation promise looks and feels and sounds like in Danbury, Connecticut. This is from the Connecticut Mirror. Quote, this past week we saw, we experienced, we felt and we witnessed terror of state sponsored violence, intimidation, kidnapping for disappearances. That was Juan Fonseca Tapia, an organizer with Greater Danbury United for Immigrants. At a press conference on August 20, he characterized the ICE apprehensions as, quote, state sanctioned kidnappings. He said that one of the people picked up by ICE at the Danbury courthouse in mid August was an 18 year old who had been arrested for a noise complaint. As of the 20th, he said he didn't know where the teen had been taken. What is your posture on ICE raids and deportations and what is alleged to be state sponsored violence, intimidation and disappearances in your state?

[Ned Lamont]

I'd say leave us alone. Look, when it comes to criminals, serious offenses, we work with everybody to make sure our streets stay safe. That includes, you know, DEA and FBI. But my God, you're picking up an 18 year old there in Danbury. They picked up another 18 year old who was on his way to high school. You're not picking up criminals, you're picking up innocent kids. We used to call them dreamers. And I want them here in Connecticut. I want them to feel safe here in Connecticut. I want them to know they can go to school or to the courthouse or even to the doctor's office and do it safely.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, then let me ask you bluntly, are they safe at the courthouse and at school and at the doctor's office?

[Ned Lamont]

It's getting tougher every day. We have had a number of pickups. There's very little I can do when it comes to ICE outside in a public space picking people up. I can tell you I don't ask everybody's immigration status. So when they come to a school and ask about somebody, I can say, I don't know their immigration status. If they go to a church and they want to pick up somebody, we don't know their immigration status. And we don't play that game. We're doing everything we can to keep our streets safe, but also to keep innocent people safe.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is your thought to the speech delivered by JB Pritzker in response to Donald Trump's threat to send National Guard to his city? And would you react in the same way if he threatened to send troops to Hartford or New Haven or one of your cities?

[Ned Lamont]

Yeah. You really want military soldiers marching around with tanks in front of your courthouse, all in the name of safety? Look, we have one of the safest states in the country. We know what we're doing. We do it well. We work with the community. It's called community policing. I think this militarization of our streets makes no sense at all. I was pretty sympathetic to jv.

[Nicole Wallace]

I want to bring my colleague Michelle Norris in for a question.

[Michelle Norris]

I want to pick up on something that John Heileman said in the last segment that Democrats have to win, they have to regain power. You got five congressional seats, I believe, that are up in Connecticut. How do you help your constituents in the state understand what is at stake? You know, we mentioned the Medicaid cuts. I know that you've been trying to deal with medical debt. You relieve the debt of thousands of people in the state. So how do you help them understand between deportations, between cuts in central services, what's at stake? And make sure that the rhetoric that we're seeing from some of these blue state governors actually turns into people actually showing up at the polls.

[Ned Lamont]

Hey, Michelle, I think every day the people of Connecticut see more and more what's at stake. Look, six months ago, we thought immigration was about stopping illegals at the border, and people sort of understood that. Now they see it's about picking up 18 year olds outside of a high school. We thought that Medicaid was all about waste, fraud and abuse. Now they see it's just pushing people off of health care. They're doing that in Medicaid, they're doing that on Obamacare. So I think the results of the Trump policies. The chicken is coming home to roost. I think I know where Connecticut stands.

[Nicole Wallace]

The state of Connecticut sometimes suffers from weather, extreme weather incidents that cut off power. Power is an issue that if you live in Connecticut, everybody talks about, about and is Pretty fluent in. And I want to read you this reporting from the New York Times. Governor Trump administration orders work halted on a wind farm that's nearly built. The 65 turbine project had obtained all necessary permits from the Biden administration. 70% of the turbines have been installed. The developers behind the project had said it was on track to produce enough electricity for more than 350,000 homes in Rhode island and Connecticut by next spring. What is the status of that? And if the work is halted, what would become of the wind farm and all the people, the 350,000 people who could benefit from it?

[Ned Lamont]

But this wind farm, 80% built, $4 billion invested, hundreds of people that work. What it's going to mean is it's going to reduce electric prices and make our power a lot more reliable. I was shocked by this. I've talked to the secretary of Interior, Secretary of Energy. They said, you have nothing to worry about. This program is so far along, we're not going to touch it. And here we are shut down right now. It just makes absolutely no sense at all. Look, if President Trump likes, you know, coal and he doesn't like wind, going forward, don't authorize any new wind farms. But let's face it, we had a contract with the federal government, and a deal is a deal.

[Nicole Wallace]

Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont, thank you very much for your time today, for joining us. Michelle sticks around with us. Coming up, quote, I ain't backing down. One big city district attorney says he's ready to go toe to toe with the Trump administration. We'll get to talk to him next. As Donald Trump threatens to bring what his administration has ordered done in Washington, D.C. to other cities in our country, officials everywhere are wondering, are we next? Here is what Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner had to say about that and the possibility of federal overreach coming to his city.

[Larry Krasner]

We have another very important tool, and I want the public to hear this, and I want them to understand that you are not alone. And that important tool is called state prosecution. The president of the United States has zero ability to pardon someone who is convicted in state court. If you have people coming in, military, ice, whoever it is, acting beyond their legal authority, they can be prosecuted, assuming they commit crimes in state court and they cannot be pardoned by the president, which means they get to tell a Philadelphia jury exactly why it is that they thought they could invade this city and they get to bear the consequences. Whether they are handcuffs, a jury trial or a jail sentence, that's what they get to bear. I ain't backing down.

[Nicole Wallace]

Joining us now is District Attorney for Philadelphia, Larry Krasner. Thank you so much for being here.

[Larry Krasner]

Of course. I'm delighted to be here, Nicole.

[Nicole Wallace]

Now, you are speaking the only language that over the last nine years and maybe before, Donald Trump seems to respond to, and that is strength. And I wonder if it's intentional. I mean, if you're intending to scare him away from messing with your city and your state.

[Larry Krasner]

Well, you know, one thing I know for sure is that crooks don't like honest prosecutors. That's kind of how it's always been. We're talking about a guy who has 34 felony convictions, who's tried to overthrow the government with an insurrection previously, who keeps making noises about doing. Doing it again. He is a wannabe dictator. And there is a lot of research that indicates that the way you do defeat dictators is you show that you're not afraid, you talk tough, and you ridicule them. I mean, the fact is, he is ridiculous in many different ways. You know, I really want to applaud those blue state governors who are out there being loud and proud. I'm in a red state. Okay? I'm in a blue city. What I need as a Democrat is more of my Democratic electeds and most importantly, more Democratic voters in all states to come out and be very plain and very direct. We are not going to have anybody, no matter how wealthy or how powerful, come into Philadelphia, come into other American cities and commit crimes. If they do that, they need to have a consequence.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I think you just so profound, what you just said. I mean, you're in a blue city in a red state. I think you could say that about a lot of other political dynamics, but say a little bit more about how the facts and the strength actually speak well beyond the borders of your blue city. Everybody hears strength, and most people respond to it.

[Larry Krasner]

Well. You know, if you think about it, Donald Trump became president completely unqualified, never having been elected to anything. Okay. What he enjoyed was kind of an outsider status, and he enjoyed it partly because Americans don't really trust elected politicians. They do not feel that government has worked for them. He, of course, is a grifter, and he's basically been selling a bill of goods to people who, sadly, at least some of them went for it. But there is power in being in a somewhat outsider position, even if you're a recent elected. There is power in going to a town hall and speaking up. You know, the Democratic Party can be seen as a bunch of elected officials and political operatives. Or it can be seen as all Democratic voters and most importantly, all potential Democratic voters. Everyone listening to this show, every single one, never having entered politics or run for anything, has the ability to either go to a town hall or demand a town hall. Demanded of a Democrat, demanded of a Republican. Get them out there, make them do something. We should not be looking at a scenario where so many elected Democrats who are in red states are afraid to speak up, where so many ambitious careerists, politicians are afraid to speak up. I mean, let's get real. We have been through this before. The Civil War, the red scare, World War II. We have been through this before. We are up against basically the equivalent of our historic enemies. I could get into the details, but you know them. And we simply have to be willing to fight and realize that there is a war over democracy happening right now. And if we dig in and we are proud and unafraid of the consequences, we will show our power and that goofball will crumble.

[Nicole Wallace]

Why do you think it's so difficult for rank and file Democrats to speak this? I mean, and I want to point out and applaud the outliers, and that's why we keep covering them. Gavin Newsom of California, J.B. pritzker of Illinois, Wes Moore of Maryland. But what is it in sort of the DNA of a, of a Democrat that can have, you know, the public is overwhelmingly unhappy and unsatisfied with Donald Trump's presidency. Seven months in, he's got about a 37% approval rating. He's underwater on issues like immigration and the economy down in the low 30s. On two issues that were once his political strengths. What are the, what are the sort of constitutional. And I don't mean that the document, but, but what is it in the DNA of a Democrat that makes it difficult to fight a street fight politically?

[Larry Krasner]

Well, I don't think it is difficult for Democratic voters. I don't think it is difficult for people who have come to politics not as their primary career. But I think there are a lot of careerist politicians who a long time ago tilted towards Republican light. They tilted towards being corporate Democrats who were basically chasing the money because, you know, increasingly politics has been about money. Didn't understand that you can actually win with the power of your message rather than the power of your wallet. And so unfortunately, for way too long, the Democratic Party has not said obvious things. Let me just give you one, okay? It is a fact for the last, that for the last 25 years, Republican states have been far more dangerous in terms of homicide than Democratic states. It's actually 133% more dangerous. The homicide rate in Republican states is 133% of what it is in Democratic states, which means Republicans are awful at public safety. And yet Democrats have never said that. Never said it. I mean, honestly, why am I the one saying it? Shouldn't we have been saying this 25 years ago? So they have let Republicans falsely steal the mantle of being for public safety and capable at it when they're terrible at it. There are so many examples of things that are simply true that Democrats could say that would have power. But unfortunately, I don't know, somewhere in political operative ville, this got lost.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, I mean, the other example is the economy. I mean, the economy. Now we have enough data, the economy does better when there's a Democrat in the White House. I mean, what, I mean, what I think is interesting as an ex Republican, is that Republicans have none of the facts, but all of the political persuasion. The Democrats have all the facts, plus public opinion, and they seem to struggle with the fight. How would you advise them to again go out and bridge that gap?

[Larry Krasner]

Well, you know, part of it is to empower the voters. It's one thing that Trump did very effectively is he brought out a whole lot of people who had white hoods in their closet or frankly, serious mental illness who believed that the country was run by Reps tiles and that there was, you know, all kinds of madness going on. In a pizza parlor in Washington D.C. he found them, the Democrats, meanwhile, and this is my party, but the centrist Democrats spend their time saying AOC is bad. AOC is not bad. And the 9 million people who follow her on social media are not bad. Their votes are necessary. And if those votes were actually enlisted, embraced, if the tent grew, if the Democratic Party could embrace its future, there would be massive turnout of young voters, black voters, brown voters, broke voters, who right now don't really know what to do, some of whom are gravitating towards Trump because they're not hearing from the Democratic Party what they should have heard a long time ago, which is that we are not a corporate party. We are not the party of Wall Street. We are a party for working families. That's where we always should have been, and that's where we need to be. So, I mean, honestly, a very basic part of it is Democrats. If your Democratic elected official doesn't know how to speak up loudly, proudly, and without fear, then we need a different Democrat in that position. That's really where it is. And if you are A voter of whatever party, and you have a Republican elected who will not give you a town hall, then raise hell, because that is what we need.

[Nicole Wallace]

Can I ask you to stick around your break? I do want to bring my colleague Michelle Norris in on the questioning. We'll do that on the other side.

[Larry Krasner]

Absolutely.

[Nicole Wallace]

We are back with Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner and my colleague, Michelle Norris. Michelle has a question for you.

[Michelle Norris]

Thank you very much for being with us, sir. You call yourself not just a district attorney, but the democracy advocate in your city, and you push back strongly against some of Donald Trump's more extremist policies, including trying to send national troops to other cities, including Philadelphia. When the president does this, isn't he essentially saying to local police, you haven't been doing your job? And so we're going to send the national troops in to do that? And what do the police have to say about that? And is there a chance for Democrats to maybe take back that message from Republicans if they stand up for police and perhaps stand with police in this case in defending the city?

[Larry Krasner]

Well, we do. I mean, the fact is that the actual patriots in the city of Philadelphia and in the United States stand for the law. We stand for order. We don't have 34 felonies. This is what they do. You know, we're not the ones who appoint to the United States Supreme Court for hacks. And they are hacks who just keep moving the finish line because they don't like the outcome. So they're just going to undermine any precedent they don't like and then claim that they're traditionalists. This is like, this is completely a bunch of nonsense. What we have to do is we have to stand on the laws that exist. The 10th Amendment to the US Constitution is very, very clear that the president has no ability to make the Philadelphia police or the Philadelphia DA or the mayor enforce immigration law. Zero power. That's how the law has been for a very, very long time. These excuses in D.C. some of which have a legal basis because it's not a state, simply don't apply in California or Pennsylvania or Illinois or anywhere else. So we need to stand on the law, we need to stand on the courts. We need to stand on the Constitution. All of us took an oath to uphold and defend the constitutional laws of the United States. So did Trump. He lied, folks. I mean, not that that's a surprise, because that's kind of what he does all the time, but he lied. So we need to stand up in the same way. You know, tons of 19 year olds answered the call in World War II, went and risked their lives and often had truly terrible consequences to defend this country. It ain't that hard. All we have to do is stand up, be loud, be proud, and understand that there is one of him in a circle of, frankly, some of the most incompetent white men I've ever seen in my life standing around him, and that the rest of us have the ability to repel this attack on America.

[Nicole Wallace]

What is your sense? You said you're in a blue city, in a red state. You obviously, at the grocery store, wherever you go, could run into a Trump voter. Are they losing the plot? Are they losing, Are you seeing any waning in their enthusiasm for Donald Trump?

[Larry Krasner]

Well, you know, I think that probably is true for some of them. I do think there's a, there are a fair number of people who sadly maybe don't know their history as well as they should. Well, frankly, thanks to people like Donald Trump trying to undermine public education, I think there are some of them who simply made a mistake. They focused on the wrong issue and they are now looking around saying, wait, wait, wait, I thought that this billionaire was all about the common man. But it turns out the price of eggs had nothing to do with Biden, that the price of all kinds of things are going up, that he's playing these tariff games that don't feel good, that pretty much everything he claimed to stand for, he obviously doesn't. Because I'm getting slammed with the big beautiful bill, which is a big, horrible bill. I think there are people whose enthusiasm is waning. I think some of them will sit out the midterms. If Democrats can get out of their own way, I think some of them would switch their votes. So I do think that there is hope, hope in that regard. But make no mistake, the cheat is so active, it's so persistent that in my opinion, the last electoral hope to save this country from the coup that Donald Trump is clearly setting up, and it's not his first coup, you know, is one in which we have to have a massive win in the midterms. And a massive win in the midterms will solve this without bloodshed, without nonsense. We will get out of this if we have a massive win in the midterm. So I would call on every Republican who is truly a patriot, cares about this country. I'm not talking about those insurrectionists and traitors that he calls patriots, I mean real patriots. I'm calling on all of them, Republican and Democrat, to understand that you got between now and the midterms to register every single person you know and get them out. And that is the answer here. Once we have that answer, I must agree with another one of your guests who said it's about Democrats actually getting power back. You get power back. And an awful lot of this can be handled in a way that will be much better for my grandchildren, my kids, and, you know, everyone in your families as well.

[Nicole Wallace]

Just real quickly, my last question. You talked about bringing state legal action against anyone that comes into your state illegally. Are you prepared to bring criminal cases against anyone that comes in to the city of Philadelphia?

[Larry Krasner]

Because I believe in order and the rule of law. Anybody who commits a crime within the jurisdiction of the city of Philadelphia is facing charges. And we've done it before and we'll do it again. There have been occasions, rare ones, when we had to charge police officers with crimes they committed on duty and in uniform. If ICE comes into Philly and starts committing crimes on duty and in uniform, then they're effing around and they're going to find out that's what's going to happen. But that does not mean that I'm going to try to use the legal process the way Trump does. It does not mean that I'm going to take things that I don't like and try to pretend it's a crime, no matter how repugnant. I will stand on the issue of whether or not there is probable cause for the commission of a crime, and I will go that route. I also have limited powers to bring civil actions, as I did against Elon Musk, and I will do that if that becomes available. But anything that we do will actually be based on the law and the Constitution of the United States. And we are also ready to do it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner. Hopefully this conversation is to be continued. Thank you so much for joining us today. And Michelle Norris, thank you so much for spending the whole hour with us. One more break. We'll be right back.

[Michelle Norris]

Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when the cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls.

[Nicole Wallace]

Out of Page Six?

[Michelle Norris]

Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office? Or Jeremy Renner's lucid Hallucinations about Jamie Foxx, nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa.

[Larry Krasner]

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[Larry Krasner]

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[Ned Lamont]

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[Larry Krasner]

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[Nicole Wallace]

The manosphere casts a long shadow over all aspects of our national political discourse these days. But take a listen to what Phil Rosenthal, my guest on this week's episode of the Best People and star of the smash hit Somebody Feed Phil on Netflix, had to say about it. I wonder what you think of all the discussion these days about the Manosphere.

[Larry Krasner]

It's a real thing. I try not to participate too much, even though I'm a guy. What if young moms were in charge? I think we'd have less war. We we'd have nice programs to help and lift each other up. I'm all for it. Yes, let the men have run things for a long time. The Manosphere Time for Lady Sphere.

[Nicole Wallace]

Time for a Lady Sphere. Amen. You can catch the entire conversation with Phil on YouTube by scanning the QR code on your screen. Or download this week's episode of the Best People wherever you get your podcast. One more break for us. We will be right back with you. That does it for us today. We want to thank you for letting us into your homes. We are grateful.

[Larry Krasner]

Hey everybody, it's Rob Lowe here. If you haven't heard, I have a podcast that's called Literally with Rob Lowe. And basically it's conversations I've had that really make you feel like you're pulling up a chair at an intimate dinner between myself and people that I admire, like Aaron Sorkin or Tiffany Haddish, Demi Moore, Chris Pratt, Michael J. Fox. There are new episodes out every Thursday, so subscribe, please, and listen wherever you get your podcasts.