He Said, She Said

Summary

Deadly Engagement – “He Said, She Said”
Dateline/NBC News | Host: Josh Mankiewicz | Release date: September 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this tense and emotionally charged episode of Deadly Engagement, Josh Mankiewicz unravels the events leading up to the shocking murder of Denita Smith, a bright young woman with her future ahead of her. Just months from earning her master’s degree and newly engaged, Denita’s life was abruptly ended by a single gunshot. Investigators find themselves entangled in a complicated love triangle involving Denita’s fiancé, Jermier Stroud, and 911 operator Shannon Crawley. The episode dives deeply into the web of secrets, betrayal, and conflicting narratives that swirl around the aftermath of Denita’s tragic death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: The Double Life (00:43 – 02:22)

• Theme: Stories of double lives rarely end well—especially those involving deception in romantic relationships.
• Quote: “Some stories are written before the first keystroke, as if the ending were a foregone conclusion.” – Josh Mankiewicz (00:43)
• Friends describe Denita and Jermier’s relationship as loving and solid, with “nothing there to make you doubt their love.” (01:04)
• Early assertions from Denita’s friends reinforce her integrity and zero-tolerance for dishonesty.

2. Jermier Stroud’s Interview: Secrets Revealed (03:10 – 08:58)

• Detective Pate interviews Jermier, who willingly discusses his relationship with Denita—no lawyer, completely open.
• When asked about people who might want to harm Denita, Jermier mentions Shannon Crawley (03:25), introducing a second woman into the investigation.
• Jermier tells of his affair with Shannon, a fellow police academy trainee and 911 operator, which began as a friendship before turning sexual in 2004 (04:36).
• The affair included a pregnancy in December 2005, leading to an abortion and the relationship’s end in early 2006.
• Jermier recounts uncomfortable encounters with Shannon afterwards, including her moving into his neighborhood and joining his church—raising suspicions of stalking (06:00–06:47).
• Notable moment: “Everywhere I am, she pops up.” – Jermier (06:14)

3. The Love Triangle: Hidden Truths & Emotional Fallout (07:10 – 08:58)

• Shannon knew about Denita, but Denita was kept in the dark about the affair.
• Investigators note Jermier’s shame and guilt during the interview, describing him as visibly affected whenever Denita’s name was mentioned (07:47).

4. Shannon Crawley’s Story: A Rebuttal & Counteraccusations (09:12 – 12:53)

• Detective Pate interviews Shannon, who, the same day she becomes a suspect, files an internal affairs complaint alleging Jermier had been stalking her (10:05).
• Shannon appears calm and collected throughout the questioning (10:55).
• Her account of the relationship closely matches Jermier’s—meeting in 2003, affair ending after the abortion in 2006. She claims only sporadic contact since then.
• Shannon denies ever owning a gun or being in Durham on the day of Denita’s murder and alibis herself with a child’s doctor appointment (11:54).
• On the subject of Jermier’s potential for violence, she initially says she “didn’t think Jameer was capable of violence” (12:29).

5. Investigative Breaks: Third-Party Revelations and Contradictions (14:00 – 22:46)

• After Shannon’s interview, a coworker, Ronnie, adds a critical detail: Shannon asked him to sell her a gun (14:19)—a .38 caliber Taurus revolver. This contradicts her on-record denial of firearm ownership.
  • Quote: “I just finished an interview with her five minutes ago and she told me I never owned a gun.” – Investigator (15:29)
• Forensics find gunshot residue in Shannon’s SUV (21:51), despite her claim never to have handled a gun.
• Shannon’s alibi crumbles—no doctor’s appointment took place, and phone records put her in Durham near the time of the murder (22:15–22:46).
  • Quote: “Nothing is adding up. Actually, almost every single fact that she gave me turned out to be a lie.” – Investigator (22:46)

6. Searches & Evidence: Red Herrings and Breakthroughs (17:03 – 22:09)

• Police search Shannon’s nearly empty house and her car, finding nothing immediately incriminating—no gun or bullets—but gunshot residue is found inside her vehicle.
• The only physical items connecting her to the job are 911 uniforms.

7. Jermier’s Second Interview: Emotional Baggage and Mixed Signals (26:00 – 31:29)

• When pressed about the long-standing emotional connection to Shannon, Jermier admits to a marathon 12-hour “apology call” with her months after their breakup (27:11–27:34).
  • Quote: “He said, I was on the phone for 12 hours. My cell phone went dead … and we talked until I fell asleep.” – Investigator (27:15)
• Despite asserting that their interactions were platonic, investigators suggest his ongoing support may have led Shannon to believe there was still hope for reconciliation (29:20–29:34).
• Jermier denies any knowledge of threats or violence from Shannon, despite an officer recounting Jermier saying, “She better not do anything to my girl,” suggesting underlying fears (30:43).

8. Lingering Doubts and the Detective’s Dilemma (30:14 – 32:06)

• Detective Pate remains uncertain about the true extent of Jermier’s involvement—if he was a passive participant or an active collaborator in Denita’s murder.
• The “deadly love triangle” theory solidifies as both Jermier and Shannon’s stories appear riddled with omissions, evasions, and half-truths.
• Quote: “If you’re not telling the 100% truth, it’s a lie.” – Detective Sean Pate (32:06)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Some stories are written before the first keystroke, as if the ending were a foregone conclusion.” – Josh Mankiewicz (00:43)
• “Everywhere I am, she pops up.” – Jermier Stroud (06:14)
• “I don’t want to have a baby with you.” – Jermier (relating his conversation to the detective about Shannon’s pregnancy) (05:23)
• “Nothing is adding up. Actually, almost every single fact that she gave me turned out to be a lie.” – Investigator (22:46)
• “He said, I was on the phone for 12 hours. My cell phone went dead … and we talked until I fell asleep.” – Investigator (27:15)
• “If you’re not telling the 100% truth, it’s a lie.” – Detective Sean Pate (32:06)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Double Life and Relationship Dynamics: 00:43 – 02:22
• Jermier’s Affair and Encounters with Shannon: 03:10 – 08:58
• Shannon’s Interview & Counteraccusations: 09:12 – 12:53
• Colleague Sells Shannon a Gun: 14:19 – 15:23
• Gunshot Residue Found in SUV: 21:51 – 22:01
• Debunking Shannon’s Alibi: 22:15 – 22:46
• Jermier’s Emotional Call to Shannon: 27:11 – 27:34
• Detective’s Final Reflections: 32:06

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Tone and Language

The episode is rich in emotional undercurrents—regret, guilt, suspicion, and fear—and maintains a classic true crime storytelling style. Mankiewicz’s narration is both contemplative and pressing, underscoring the pain of loss and the wrenching ambiguity of truth in human relationships. Law enforcement and interview subjects speak with directness and candor, sometimes plainly, sometimes with visible discomfort or emotion. The episode balances procedural detail with an empathetic look at everyone caught in the web of the crime.

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Summary

In this episode, investigators push deeper into the tragic events surrounding Denita Smith’s murder, piecing together the secrets of a fraught love triangle. As the stories of Jermier Stroud and Shannon Crawley clash and contradict, police navigate through lies, omissions, and escalating suspicion. The episode expertly captures the sense of a case teetering on the edge—a promising life lost, and a search for truth clouded by the deceptions and hurts that led to deadly consequences.

Transcript

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Some stories are written before the first keystroke, as if the ending were a foregone conclusion. That's particularly true of those stories in which a man or woman attempts to live a double life. Cheating business partners, for example. Deceiving old friends, lying to lovers. I was shocked.

[Friend of Danita]

It was nothing there to make you doubt their love and where they were headed.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The beginnings of stories like that are as easy as sliding between satin sheets. That's when those lies of omission are tiny ones, when dishonest acts can go unnoticed.

[Friend of Danita]

I cannot tolerate a liar. I don't lie for my children. I don't lie to my children.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

And the endings to those stories, you won't be shocked when I tell you they usually don't end well.

[Detective Sean Pate]

There's some people in this world you go, okay, well, they got themselves in a mess.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

We watch this kind of stuff on TV all the time.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

That's when secrets can be revealed in a pyrotechnic display of guilt and public humiliation.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The shame. It was there for everyone to see. Everyone to see.

[Friend of Danita]

The main thing is I wanted my friend to be there and for us to continue living life. So no matter what the circumstances were, the main point is Danita's no longer with us.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

This is a story about a promising young life, one cut much too short, in part due to the actions of someone they loved.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The decisions we make make us. I mean, it's just sad.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Yes, it was a tragedy. And yes, I lost my daughter. I knew that she was going places. I'm Josh Mankiewicz and this is Deadly Engagement, a podcast from Dateline. Episode 2 he said, she Said. It was mid afternoon when Detective Sean Pate walked into interview room two at the Durham police headquarters. Danita Smith had been dead for about 30 hours. Waiting for him in an uncomfortable chair was Danita's fiance, Jameer Stroud. He sat at the left end of a small table that was shoved up against the far wall.

[Detective Sean Pate]

When I walked in, Jameer stood up, introduced himself, and shook my hand.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And he doesn't show up with an attorney?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And he doesn't say, I can't talk to you about this now?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No. He wanted to talk about anything we wanted to talk about.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And when he's asked, do you know anybody who would want to hurt Danita? He says, no.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Correct. But he was also asked, do you know anyone that drives a burgundy suv? And he tells us about Shannon Crawley.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Jermeer began to unspool a story, a tale of two cities, of two women, of two different realities. Shannon Crawley, Jermier explained, was a 911 operator in Greensboro. The person who asks you where and what your emergency. Emergency is, Jermeer told the detective, Shannon Crawley drives a burgundy Ford Explorer.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He tells that he met Shannon when he was in the police academy, and she was one of the people that was in the training session. He said, yeah, she caught by. I mean, she's 5 foot 10, long pretty hair, thin. And we. We spoke for. For a short time.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

This was in early 2003, and Jermir was well into his relationship with Danita Smith, so he did little more than smile and remember Shannon's name.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Around 2004, they bumped in again through work, and he asked her for her number.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And at this point, he's involved with Danita.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Involved with Danita. And he actually said that he told Shannon that he was involved with danita. Well, in 2004, they start having a relationship that actually started kind of like friendly, but then turned sexual toward the end of 2004. Around September of 2004,

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Jermir told the detective, Shannon was a single mother of two, a boy age 10, and a daughter who was 8. Jermir also said that in December of 2005, Shannon became pregnant. There was no question who the father was.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

When Shannon said, jameer, I'm pregnant. What are we gonna do? He said, I don't wanna have a baby with you. He told me that's how he said it.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Not just I don't wanna have a baby or I don't wanna have a baby right now.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I don't wanna have a baby with you. And that was in December 2005. I imagine that sucked just a little bit of her soul out when she heard those.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

That had to sting.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I imagine it did.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

In January 2006, Jermir said, Shannon had an abortion, and the two of them decided to go their separate ways.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The boyfriend, girlfriend thing. There was no more going to movies together, There was no more sleeping together, going shopping together, that kind of thing. It was more just see you in passing at work.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So basically, they broke it off.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

They did.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

According to Jir, the two barely had any contact for the next six months. Then one evening in July 2006, he says he spotted Shannon's burgundy SUV driving around his neighborhood.

[Detective Sean Pate]

He said, look, like everywhere I am, she pops up.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Then months later, in November 2006, Jameer said he learned Shannon had bought a home in his neighborhood just half a mile from his house.

[Detective Sean Pate]

He said, you know, I did actually have to go to speak to one of my friends at Internal affairs about it. Not an official complaint, but kind of judging. Where do I go from here? She moved into my neighborhood, and then she's joined my church.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

It's worth noting that November 2006 was also the month Jermir asked Danita to marry him, and she said yes. It's the month Danita put on that ring. The future may have looked bright to her, but Jermir no doubt feared what could happen if the two lives he'd led bumped into one another.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I said, well, have they ever met? And he said, no, they've never met. Shannon knew about Danita, but Danita had no clue. And everyone I spoke to about Danita said if she even suspected, she would have been out of that relationship. She had too much dignity for that.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So this was an affair Jeramere was hiding?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Correct. The detective estimated Jermir stroud at about 6ft tall and a solid 190 pounds. Except as the hours passed and as Jermir doled out the details of his affair like small change, he seemed to grow smaller.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

When we mentioned Anita, his head dropped. I mean, chin to chest every single time. And the shame in his eyes was. It was there for everyone to see. Everyone to see.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Jimmire told the detective the last time he laid eyes on Shannon Crawley was two weeks earlier, at Christmas Eve services at their church. Danita, who was with him that day, was all smiles as Jermir introduced her to friends. As his fiance, it should have been an unadulterated moment of joy, except seated three rows behind him, and Danita that Sunday was Jermir's ex lover. And if Jameer turned around to look at her, he did not mention it. The two women did not actually meet that day. There was no chilly confrontation, no ugly scene in a church on Christmas Eve to mar the season. Okay, but what about now? With Danita murdered, Jameer wondered if Shannon had preferred her revenge on him and Danita to be served cold.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

How did Jermir describe Shannon? Dangerous, unpredictable, violent.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I remember when I interviewed him in length the next day, I asked him, do you think that Shannon is capable of killing someone? And he said yes.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Soon after Jermir left the police station, Detective Pate called the Greensboro opd. He was on his way. He told them he wanted to talk with one of their 911 operators, name of Crawley. Shannon Crawley, he said. By the time Detective Pate and a partner arrived at the 911 center in Greensboro that evening, Shannon was waiting with a story she wanted to tell.

[Detective Sean Pate]

As far as she knew, we were there about Jameer and Shannon.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Crawley had plenty to say about Jermier Stroud. In fact, just that morning, she had filed a complaint with Internal affairs accusing Jermier Stroud of stalking her.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Shannon hears through a friend that the police department's looking for 5 foot 10, black female that drives a burgundy SUV. Shannon gets up, goes and speaks with her supervisor and wants to make a complaint against Jamir. It starts rattling all the wrongdoings of the past and in the relationship.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Interesting. So that first day that she's a suspect, Shannon files a complaint against Jameer. Correct. Alleging?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Well, it was internal affair issues, but basically boiled down to stalking.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

He was stalking her.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He was stalking her, calling her at work all the time, showing up at her house unannounced.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

As you will see in future episodes, that stalking allegation would remain a point of contention throughout this case. How is she?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Honestly? She was pretty calm, easygoing, Kind of like us sitting here.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

She was, as they say in Carolina, a long drink of water. Tall and thin, with thick hair that fell to her shoulders.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

What'd you ask her first?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I asked her about Jameer, whatever. And she admitted that she knew him and about the relationship that they'd had.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Shannon's version of the story mirrored what the detective had heard from Jermir. They met in 2003, became lovers in 2004, and the romantic relationship ended after Shannon's abortion in January 2006, a year

[Interviewer/Co-host]

before Danita was killed.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

A year.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And whatever contact they had during that year. Shannon and Jermir, you don't think there was anything untoward going on?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I honestly believe them because they both agreed on what it was about.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Then the detective turned the line of questioning to the murder.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She says she's never been to Durham. I asked her about owning a gun, and she tells me that I've never owned a gun. I can't stand guns. I'm scared of them. I said, okay, I can understand that. A lot of people feel that way. And I asked her where she was the day that Danita was killed. And she told me that she was at a doctor's appointment with her, one of her children.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Then the detective asked Shannon a version of the same question he had asked Jermir hours earlier. Did she think Jermir could have killed Danita?

[Detective Sean Pate]

She told me that she didn't think Jameer was capable of violence. She wasn't scared of him.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Shannon would later change her story about how much she feared Jermir Stroud, but more about that later. Several times during the interview, Shannon excused herself and left the room to either take or return phone calls.

[Detective Sean Pate]

So everything is all glass. So she gets up and she goes outside and speaks in the, in the hallway. And we can't hear anything she's saying, but we can see her reactions. And she's, you know, trying to be calm. But I mean, it was a serious situation. She wasn't doing. You know, some people talk and they get their, their hand gestures. Wasn't a lot of that.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Shannon told the detective she was speaking with her sister and brother in law who were at that very mom driving down to North Carolina from New Jersey.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I said, why are they coming down? She said, to watch my kids.

[Detective Sean Pate]

To watch.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Where are you going? To watch your kids? For what?

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Why do you need somebody to watch your kids?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

We didn't get an answer on that one. She just looked at me.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

According to Shannon, her sister and brother in law were telling her she needed a lawyer and that she should get up and leave that interview.

[Detective Sean Pate]

I told her about wanting to search her card and naturally she didn't want that to happen.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

After about an hour and 40 minutes, Shannon told the detectives she had had enough and out the door she went.

[Detective Sean Pate]

She was frustrated and she was leaving.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Minutes after Shannon left the room, Detective Pate says one of her supervisors handed him a note. There was another 911 operator named Ronnie. He was waiting in the hall and he had something he wanted to tell police.

[Detective Sean Pate]

Ronnie was white, male, I don't know, probably 40 years old, short, want to say, sandy, blondish hair.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Ronnie told the detective he and Shannon were friends and often ate their lunches together. He said Shannon had spoken often about her ex boyfriend, Jermir Stroud. And Ronnie corroborated the story Shannon had just told in that interview room with one important addition.

[Detective Sean Pate]

She said something about fearing for her safety. And you know, he's a cop, he always has a gun. I don't feel safe. Do you have a gun I can buy?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The detective was all ears.

[Detective Sean Pate]

He was anxious to tell. Not so much as far as like, ooh, I'm gonna tell on her. It was like, hey, I don't want this to come back on me.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

According to Ronnie, it was sometime in late October 2006 that Shannon asked him if he could sell her a gun. That was two months before Danita Smith was murdered.

[Detective Sean Pate]

He said that he sold Shannon a.38 caliber Taurus revolver with hollow point ammunition.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

In my mind I'm thinking, you know, wait a minute, I just finished an interview with her five minutes ago and she told me I never owned a gun.

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

It was nearly 9pm When Shannon Crawley walked out of the 911 operations center in downtown Greensboro that night and into a light drizzle under the city's lights. The parking lot looked as if it were coated with a sheen of black lacquer. As she approached vehicle, a burgundy 1999 Ford Explorer, Shannon saw a police car and a couple of officers standing near it. By then, a photo of the SUV had already been emailed to the maintenance man at the Campus Crossings apartments. He confirmed Shannon Crawley's burgundy Ford Explorer looked exactly like the one he'd seen the day before.

[Detective Sean Pate]

She came out to the Cross car and the look on her face she did not expect to see everyone out there around her car. When she came out, she thought she was going to get in her car and just ride off, and that didn't happen.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

When asked to unlock the vehicle so officers could search it, Shannon refused. That standoff lasted several minutes when the ranking officer told Shannon that if the police had to break a window down, gain access, the repair cost would be on her. Shannon then unlocked the door and got a ride home. A couple of hours passed before police received a signed search warrant allowing them to enter the suv. By then, rain was coming down in sheets so hard, in fact, investigation investigators feared the rainwater would destroy potential evidence if they tried to do a proper search right there. So the SUV was towed to the Greensboro evidence garage, where it could be securely stored until police technicians could conduct a thorough search the next day. The Ford Explorer wasn't the only thing investigators wanted to search that night. They also had a warrant to toss Shannon's house. It was after 1am When Detective Pate and other investigators rolled into the suburb where Shannon Crawley lived. Although it was dark, the detective could see this was a neighborhood where lawn care and home maintenance were clearly priorities. Shannon and her kids were not there, but a neighbor who had a key was on hand to let investigators in.

[Detective Sean Pate]

When we served a search warrant on that house, there was hardly any furniture in that house.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

The children were well cared for.

[Detective Sean Pate]

Their room, you would never know. But the living room, her room, there was no.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She looked house poor.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The good thing about a nearly empty house is it's easy to search. And for the next two hours, investigators went over that house looking for a gun for the bullets, journals, emails, anything that could conceivably connect law abiding Shannon Crawley to the murder of Danita Smith.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

So we searched for the rest of the house, and we do find Greensboro communication 911 center uniforms, and they are exactly as described by the maintenance supervisor, down to the color of the patch and the shape. You find a gun, no gun was found, no bullets were found, nothing incriminating. Other than that.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The detective hoped crime lab technician might find something else more incriminating once they were able to take a look inside that burgundy suv.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Is there a gun in the car?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Nope. No gun in the car, no bullets, nothing that just screams, hey, it's me.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The gray interior of the Explorer looked the way you'd expect any single mom's car to look. Children's clothes and notebooks, games and candy wrappers, plastic shopping bags and empty soda bottles. The back seat on the passenger side was Folded down, extending the cargo space there, along with boxes and more clothes, was a pillow, suggesting that at some point, somebody might have stretched out there and taken a nap. It turns out the real find in that Explorer was invisible to the naked eye.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

We did gunshot residue tests on the car, which we swapped. The steering wheel, you'd swap anywhere where a person would touch. Steering wheel, the window handle, gear shifter, you know, normal areas.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Gunshot residue is basically just sort of like microscopic dust.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

That's exactly what it is.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Comes off the gun onto the person using the gun.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. It's going to be the microscopic dust from the powder that comes from the bullet itself.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And if you touch something else, you can transfer that.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Exactly. That's exactly right.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So you test Shannon's car.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Test her car. And comes back there as gunshot residue in the vehicle.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Tests showed gunshot residue on the steering wheel and the driver's seat.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Shannon's a police department employee, but a civilian employee?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So she doesn't carry a gun?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

No.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

She doesn't regularly qualify at the range or anything like that?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Not at all.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

That gets you pretty far down the road, doesn't it?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

It really does. And the story starts to unravel.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

That bit about never owning a gun. Not true. If the CO worker who said he sold her a gun was to be believed. Shannon's story about having a doctor's appointment for her child on the morning of the murder. Well, the detective checked with the child's doctor and learned there was no appointment. And as for having never been to Durham, well, cell phone records show she or her cell phone had been in Durham the day before Danita Smith was murdered.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Nothing is adding up. Actually, almost every single fact that she gave me turned out to be a lie.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

As the detective merged onto the eastbound interstate that morning, he knew several things he had not known 24 hours earlier. That hunch he'd had about Danita's roommate and her boyfriend, the one Danita had words with, that was a dead end. Pate's investigation had turned up nothing there. And Shannon Crawley, well, that felt like pay dirt. He expected he'd soon be arresting her for the murder of Danita Smith, but not yet. Pate knew Shannon was just one point of what looked like a deadly love triangle. Jermier Stroud was another. And the detective wasn't sure he'd gotten the whole truth out of Officer Stroud the last time they spoke.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Jameer would tell me the truth, but you had to ask it. There was no. You know, sometimes when you tell people a lie of omission is still a lie. We need everything. Some people you have to ask the correct question to get the answer you're looking for.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

He wasn't volunteering anything.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Absolutely not.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The detective knew that in two days he'd be back on this road, fighting the Monday morning traffic, going westbound to Greensboro. He was going to have another sit down with Jermier Stroud.

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

How would I know?

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Oh, no.

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Or setting limits on your teenager's debit card?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Definitely not.

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Yeah, sure sounds like it.

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[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

1-800-contacts. Greensboro police officer Jermere Stroud was on duty the morning Detective Sean Pate returned to Greensboro. Greensboro to question him again. Now, armed with a few specifics he'd gleaned from Shannon, the detective pressed Jermir on the nature of their relationship. The heart of it, the detective thought, was Shannon's pregnancy and the abortion that had led to their breakup.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

When I started asking questions about it, then I see that the physical relationship ended, but not the emotional relationship.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So when they both agree jointly to break up in early 2006, that what

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

lights a fuse that burns for a year?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Here's the thing. So they really didn't speak until May of 2006. They broke up in January. And then Jameer goes on a men's retreat for. With his church. And in his men's retreat, you know, the. The pastor tells him, anyone you vonged, you need to go back and get right with everyone that you've wronged before you can get right with God.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

When Jermir heard that, he immediately thought of Shannon.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

He said, I come back and I call her, and I apologize in great detail about everything that he's sorry for. He said, I was on the phone for 12 hours. My cell phone went dead. I charged it, I mean, had it plugged in, and we talked until I fell asleep.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

He talked to Shannon for 12 hours,

[Investigator/Interviewer]

12 hours, apologizing, sorry for everything.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

According to Jermier, that conversation was emotionally draining. Shannon cried and told him how upset she'd been about the abortion.

[Detective Sean Pate]

It was pretty much, how did we get here? Where did we go from here? And my. I felt this way at this point, and this led to this decision. They were just rehashing, rewinding, and reliving the whole relationship in 12 hours.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Men are always better at starting relationships than ending them. And like multitudes of men before him, Jermier Stroud was no match for a woman's tears.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

There were a lot of feelings that were shared, and since he had to make right with her, it wasn't right to come back, apologize, say, I'm sorry I mistreated you. And then after the conversation, okay, well, goodbye, hang up the phone, and that's it.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Interesting that in the list of people he wronged, he talked to Shannon about it. But not Danita.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Of course not. I guess she, she. She didn't know that there was something he needed to apologize for.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

So they start talking again.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

According to Jermir, talk is all it was ever intended to be, nothing more. He says, however, Shannon did not see it that way.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She was a single mother and they were friends. And if she had a bad day at work or something like that, and she wanted to talk to someone, when she called, he answered. If something was going wrong at the house that needed a man's attention or whatever, he would come take care of it.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

And Jermir, in all of this, doesn't see that this is Shannon trying to get Jermir back into her life?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Not at all. Not at all. And he doesn't see that he's leaving the door open. As long as you keep doing all the things that a boyfriend would do, then in her mind, she still has a chance.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

There's still a shot.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Exactly. He saw it when I explained it to him, but he didn't see it at the time.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

Does Jameer ever describe any instance in which Shannon was violent or threatened violence or talked about violence or said, you know, if I could just get rid of Danita, my life would be great?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Never.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

You didn't believe him?

[Investigator/Interviewer]

I didn't because I told him, jameer, I've been doing this for a while. And people say, oh, this person just snapped and went off the deep end. And I said, don't tell me that crazy just showed up. January 4, 2007. There's been something that she said along the way, that you're a cop. Something made you say, whoa, wait a minute.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

The question of whether Jamere Stroud had been a passive participant in his fiance's murder or an active collaborator was one the detective struggled with. Although there seemed to be no direct evidence connecting him to the crime, there was anecdotal evidence that Jermir had at least considered the possibility that Shannon possessed a hair trigger heart and might be a danger to Danita.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

One officer that I spoke to, he told me that on one occasion he was talking to Jameer, and Jameer specifically said to him, she better not do anything to my girl. And I said, well, did he elaborate after that? He said, no, he was just pretty much not even really talking to me. But I'm at the table with him and he's looking off in the distance and more thinking out loud.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

He's sort of talking to the universe, pretty much. But if you're thinking that, if you can verbalize that thought, that means you

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

thought about the rest.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

And naturally, I went back to Jameer and asked him again, this is what your friend said, that you made this statement on this day and time and don't remember that. I didn't. I don't remember that. Maybe he misheard.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

The friend has no reason to lie.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

None at all. But at this point, I'm thinking neither does Jameer. The worst thing you could possibly tell us about yourself, you've already done it. You've been the direct cause of someone's death that you claim that you loved. Why not tell it all?

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

Why indeed? That question nagged at Detective Sean Pate. Shannon Crawley may have been the detective's number one suspect. And Jermir Stroud? Well, the possibility he may have been somehow involved in his fiance's murder remained a very open question.

[Detective Sean Pate]

This being my very first homicide. If you're not telling the 100% truth, it's a lie.

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Next time, he said, I'll make it real simple.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

Either your children die or you die from your children.

[Interviewer/Co-host]

He would appear in the neighborhood, just sit there in his car and watch the house.

[Investigator/Interviewer]

She gets cuffed, she gets to the end of the driveway and before she gets in the car, she looks at her family and says, raise them like they're your own. She gets in the car and we go to Durham.

[Friend of Danita]

I was just trying to connect the dots of, you know, who this person was. He was just like, give it some time and let the truth come out.

[Narrator (Josh Mankiewicz)]

This podcast is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Tim Beacham is the producer, Marshall Housefeld, Brian Drew, Deb Brown, John Koster and Billy Ray are audio editors. Kimberly Flores Gaynor is associate producer, Adam Gorfayne is co executive producer, Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer From NBC News. Audio sound Mixing by Rich Cutler Bryson Barnes is head of Audio production.

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