Alex Cooper on Building a Media Brand

Summary

DealBook Summit: Alex Cooper on Building a Media Brand

Podcast: DealBook Summit, The New York Times
Host: Andrew Ross Sorkin
Guest: Alex Cooper (Host and media entrepreneur, "Call Her Daddy")
Date: December 5, 2024
Episode Theme: Exploring how Alex Cooper built “Call Her Daddy” into a podcasting empire, her evolving role in the media landscape, and her influence as a business leader and force for women’s empowerment.

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Episode Overview

In this live conversation from the DealBook Summit, Andrew Ross Sorkin interviews Alex Cooper, the creator and host of "Call Her Daddy." The discussion centers on Cooper’s journey from sports-obsessed film student and aspiring media director to the head of an influential media brand, her strategies for growing a vibrant community of (primarily) young women, her expansion into new media and business ventures, and her role in the shifting landscape of public trust in media. The conversation is candid, fast-paced, and filled with both strategic insight and off-the-cuff humor.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origin Story: From Fired Sales Associate to Podcast Maven

[02:37 – 03:56]

• Alex Cooper details her upbringing immersed in media, thanks to her father’s career as a sports TV producer.
• After losing her post-grad sales job, she saw a "huge hole in the market": There were no shows for women as open as Howard Stern’s for men.
• Early episodes focused heavily on sex and relationships, deliberately courting attention:

  "It was very sex heavy and I was proud of it. ... I also am like a marketer at heart. And I was like, this is going to get everyone talking." — Alex Cooper, [03:31]

• Immediate audience traction convinced her she’d struck a nerve:

  “The virality of the first three episodes was lightning in a bottle.” — Alex Cooper, [03:59]

2. Barstool Sports & Lessons from Dave Portnoy

[04:22 – 05:08]

• Sorkin asks what Cooper learned at Barstool; she credits Dave Portnoy’s unapologetic approach:

  “You can never speak your mind too often on social media. ... When you think it's a little too much, go even farther.” — Alex Cooper, [04:33]

• She admits to sometimes questioning whether she’d gone too far, but pushing boundaries proved effective.

3. Shifting Culture & Responsible Platforming

[05:35 – 06:26]

• Discussion about the coarsening of online culture and its double-edged sword:

  "I am having conversations that have not been to the degree publicly talked about ... Like mental health. ... In such detail in moments where people are like, holy shit, I don't want to hear about this. ... This is what's happening in real life." — Alex Cooper, [05:54]

• Cooper believes greater authenticity and honest conversation—especially about women’s experiences and mental health—are positive developments.

4. Evolution of Content: From Sex Talk to Celebrity Interviews

[06:26 – 07:17]

• Cooper didn’t pivot away from explicit content by design—she simply “put it all on the table” and was ready to move on.
• She now focuses on interviews with diverse high-profile guests, often eliciting vulnerability and authenticity.

5. Building Trust and Creating a “Safe Space”

[07:16 – 08:35]

• Celebrities like Christina Aguilera have said they feel “safe” with Cooper.
• Cooper attributes her empathy to growing up with a therapist mother and being “intentional” in her interviews:

  “I am actually listening to what they're saying because I genuinely care, because I know the community that I have built cares. Every single thing I do is for my audience.” — Alex Cooper, [08:02]

6. Is She a Journalist, Entertainer, or Something Else?

[08:35 – 09:23]

• Cooper rejects labels, emphasizing impact over semantics:

  “I consider myself Alex Cooper. I don't care if people consider me a journalist or a podcaster or just a girl that talks online every week. ... If you want to put me in the box of a journalist who just interviewed the Vice President of the United States, sure, put me there. But I can also. I'm fine with podcaster, too.” — Alex Cooper, [08:55]

7. Political Interviews and Audience Advocacy

[09:32 – 11:47]

• Cooper describes how both Biden and Trump’s teams reached out for interviews.
• Her approach is audience-oriented: focused on women's rights, especially regarding abortion:

  “Yeah, I am, because it's not about abortion. It's about women's right to their body.” — Alex Cooper, [10:26]

• She selected issues that matter to her listeners, not topics that dominate cable news.

8. Controversy and Media Headlines

[11:47 – 12:46]

• Sorkin quizzes Cooper on rumors the Harris campaign spent $100,000 to replicate her LA studio in D.C.; she refutes this:

  “My studio that is gorgeous in Los Angeles doesn't even cost six figures. ... It wasn't like gorgeous marble? No, that was not six figures.” — Alex Cooper, [12:19]

9. Rogan, Stern, and the "Next Big Thing" Comparisons

[13:16 – 16:13]

• Cooper is aware of frequent media comparisons to Joe Rogan and Howard Stern, but asserts:

  “I am a woman. Like, I don't need to keep being compared to these men. ... I'm Alex Cooper. I'm gonna be Alex Cooper all day.” — Alex Cooper, [15:44]

• She respects both but is carving her own lane.

10. Business Dynamics, Partnerships, and the ‘Co-Host Breakup’

[17:47 – 19:13]

• Reflects on her split with original co-host Sofia Franklyn, attributing it to divergent ambitions.
• Emphasizes that partnerships—business or personal—are naturally fraught but sometimes necessary to dissolve to achieve one’s full potential.

11. Building an Empire: The Unwell Network & Community Expansion

[19:22 – 22:51]

• After stints with Barstool, Spotify, and now Sirius XM, Cooper describes her strategy:
  • Move from just content (“catalog”) to cultivating a tightly bonded, participatory community.
  • The Unwell Network spotlights and uplifts hand-selected Gen Z creators; Cooper serves as mentor and curator.

  “I wanted to launch live events. ... Gen Z wants to be in person. ... We've done live events. ... The GM said [our event] was the highest grossing night of the year, aside from Pride.” — Alex Cooper, [19:22]

  • Not in it just for “ego”—she’ll continue to host, but aims to support and amplify others’ voices.

12. Venturing into Consumer Products: Unwell Hydration Launch

[23:59 – 26:30]

• Cooper reveals her new product live:

  “I am officially launching a hydration beverage called Unwell Hydration ... exclusive to Targets for the first few months. ... Every time I went to pick up an energy drink ... it's all catered to men. ... What about us? ... It is a product by women for everyone.” — Alex Cooper, [23:59]

• Partnered with Nestlé for reach and credibility.

13. Legacy Media vs. New Creators: Advice for Institutional Journalism

[26:45 – 28:49]

• Sorkin asks how legacy media can regain the trust of Gen Z.
• Cooper’s advice: Emphasize authenticity, let younger staffers have more of a voice, and resist “selling” news as a product:

  “People don't want to be told what to do anymore. ... It has to feel somewhat more organic. ... Maybe you should give those young interns more of a voice and maybe you should listen to them when they have some ideas.” — Alex Cooper, [27:04]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authenticity and Women's Voices:

  "As women, we are at a disadvantage. Sorry, boys in the room, if you disagree, but it’s the truth.” — Alex Cooper, [03:06]

• On Impact:

  “I know what I’m doing is changing a lot of lives. And I know a lot of women specifically, have been extremely impacted by the conversations I’m having.” — Alex Cooper, [08:55]

• On Platform Strategy:

  “I started the Unwell Network … with my husband. We have expanded where I’m now signing younger Gen Z creators to uplift their voices.” — Alex Cooper, [19:22]

• On Business Partnership Challenges:

  “That is a very hard dynamic because you are two complete different people trying to come to one agreement.” — Alex Cooper, [18:21]

• On Gen Z and Trust:

  “I’m just speaking for Gen Z and millennials … a lot of us feel like we’re getting sold a crock of every week … people want to figure it out for themselves.” — Alex Cooper, [27:04]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:37] Cooper’s origin story and podcast launch
• [04:33] Lessons from Barstool and Dave Portnoy
• [05:35] On cultural shifts and authenticity
• [06:46] Transition from explicit topics to interviews
• [07:16] Gaining trust from celebrity guests
• [08:35] Talking impact vs. labels
• [09:32] Political interviews: audience-driven advocacy
• [11:47] Studio controversy rebuttal
• [15:44] On Howard Stern, Rogan, and gendered comparisons
• [19:22] How and why to build a multimedia, community-centered media brand
• [23:59] Unveiling Unwell Hydration and partnership with Nestlé
• [27:04] Advice for legacy media

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Conclusion

This lively, insightful interview tracks Alex Cooper’s evolution into a powerful new media business force, her intentional advocacy for women in media and entrepreneurship, and her approach to building trust and community in an era when legacy institutions are viewed skeptically by young audiences. Cooper is unfiltered about her ambition, unorthodox in her methods, and intentional in her mission to empower audiences—while remaining self-aware about her place in a rapidly changing industry.

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For further exploration:

• Call Her Daddy Podcast on Spotify
• Unwell Network
• More episodes of DealBook Summit

Transcript

[Alex Cooper]

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Keeping the forest fire resistant, synonymous with keeping the forest healthy. And we do that through planting more than we harvest and mitigate those risks through active management. It's a long term commitment.

[Commercial Announcer 1]

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[Alex Cooper]

I consider myself Alex Cooper. I don't care if people consider me a journalist or a podcaster or just a girl that talks online every week. I know what I'm doing is changing a lot of lives. And I know a lot of women specifically have been extremely impacted by the conversations I'm having. So if you want to put me in the box of a journalist who just interviewed the Vice President of the United States, sure. Put me there.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This is Andrew Ross Sorkin with the New York Times, listening to interviews from our annual Dealbook Summit Live event recorded on December 4th in New York City. There we are. There you are.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, my God.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

We're here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We're here.

[Alex Cooper]

Kind of a different vibe.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's a little bit of a different vibe.

[Alex Cooper]

Just a little.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It's just a little bit of a different vibe. Alex Cooper is here. And the reason we wanted to have her here today is that the media world is really shifting under our feet. Who the public trusts, how they gather and get their information, who people are sharing their information with. The direction of travel seems to be moving towards podcasts. And the reigning queen is Alex Cooper. She is the host of Call Her Daddy. Her podcast is the number one podcast for women on Spotify with millions of listeners per episode. It's an. Excuse me, an unbelievable thing. She recently inked a deal for $125 million with Sirius XM. She also launched her own media company called trending and the Unwell Network. She's building an empire. So we want to thank you for coming and welcome the head of the Daddy Gang.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh my God. Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So there's, there's a lot to talk about here in terms of what's going on. I want to try to understand all this. You know, I went back and re listened to your first episode ever.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh no.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Which was about sexting.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, what?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah. And now you're being called the Gen Z Barbara Walters. So I'm trying to just understand, if you could just help us, how this happened to you. And I don't wanna say it happened to you. Cause I think you did this. But when you started with the first episode, what you thought was gonna happen?

[Alex Cooper]

So I grew up and my father was a sports television producer. So I was like, in a television truck my whole life. And I was like, I wanna be a director, I wanna be a producer. I wanna be in media in some capacity. I was making little short form movies my whole life. And then I played Division 1 SoC. And so I had this obsession with working hard and creating films and content. And when I graduated, I got fired from my sales job and it was the absolute best thing that ever happened to me. And I was like, what am I going to do? I'm on unemployment checks. And I decided, okay, there's clearly a huge hole in the market. There's Howard Stern and then there's no one for women. Where women can actually feel like, oh, that is what I talk about with my friends when I'm behind closed doors. And we don't feel comfortable speaking about certain things in public because as women, we are at a disadvantage. Sorry, boys in the room, if you disagree, but it's the truth. So I started on episode one just talking about my life and my sexual experiences. Yes. But also it progressed to talking about my relationships and my friendships. But yes, it was very sex heavy and I was proud of it. I know it was salacious and I know it was out there, but I also am like a marketer at heart. And I was like, this is going to get everyone talking. And then eventually I shifted the narrative, but I think it worked.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

When do you think you knew it worked?

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, I knew it worked when we published episode one. When episode one went up, the virality of the first three episodes was lightning in a bottle. I worked with Dave Portnoy at Barstool Sports, and he was like, I've never seen something in my entire career because again, it was just filling a hole in the market. And that's half of the reason why I did it.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You worked with Dave?

[Alex Cooper]

I did.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And Barstool?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

How important? I mean, barstool has become a force in the influence in this country. What did you learn when you were at Barstool?

[Alex Cooper]

You can never speak your mind too often on social media. I think when you think it's a little too much, go even farther. I think Dave, as crazy as he seems, maybe he's really, really smart with what he's doing. He knows exactly the type of audience that he's garnered, and people hang on to every single word he's saying. And so I think working with someone like that just made me Recognize that what I was doing, I could keep pushing it further and further, and there was kind of no limit.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Did you ever worry, though, that, like, you had gone past the limit?

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, every week. I was like, ooh, was that a little too much? And then I was like, upload. But it kept working.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, so. But that's a question. It kept working. So I'm curious what you think of just what's happened in the culture. Because the culture has gotten more coarse. It's gotten more crude. People have been willing, maybe. And maybe the argument is that people have been willing to have conversations they weren't willing to have before. Yeah, but there's also. It's changed the tenor of the kind of conversations that people have. Is that good? Is that bad? What are we supposed to think of all of this?

[Alex Cooper]

I think it's good and bad. I think when you look at social media right now, there's a lot of people that you can say, oh, my God, they shouldn't have a platform. Whether they're spreading misinformation or it's racist or whatever it is, where you're like, why the hell is that person given a platform? But I also think then there's the other side, with what I've done with Call Her Daddy is I am having conversations that have not been to the degree publicly talked about in a capacity, in a positive manner. Right. Like mental health. We all now know, like, mental health. Mental. No, no, no. I'm sitting down with women who are talking about their lived experiences in such detail in moments where people are like, holy shit, I don't want to hear about this. This is. Well, no. This is what's happening in real life. So understand what's going on. And I think it's, if anything, move the conversation forward to finally, we're having more authenticity, and it's not just this, like, perfect facade.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But you pivoted away, dare I say, from the sexting stuff.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, right.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Like on purpose.

[Alex Cooper]

No, I was like, I literally have nothing more to give. Like, I've said it all. I've given you all my tips. Now what else is there to do? It wasn't on purpose. I literally, like, I put it out all on the table. I was ready to move on.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And then you became an interviewer.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And one of the things I'm very curious about is you've done a lot of fascinating interviews. But you ask. I mean, I like to think that I ask some occasionally tough questions. You know, you ask like, Gwyneth Paltrow, Brad Pitt, or Ben Affleck.

[Alex Cooper]

Well, we all want to know.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And so what I thought was so interesting about this is Christina Aguilera, who you interviewed, said that, quote, you feel safe to her.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you feel safe? Do you think that when you interview people, you're a safe place? Because I've been listening to a lot of these episodes, and I'm not so.

[Alex Cooper]

Sure you don't feel safe. Do you feel safe right now with me?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I don't know.

[Alex Cooper]

You're the one in the position. Yeah. No, listen, I think that a lot of people, everyone is always fascinated, like, how do you get this out of people? Like, why are they telling you things that they've never said in media after 20 years? I think it's because I was raised by a therapist, and my entire life, all I did was this. It was like, sit down. Let's talk about your feelings. And I think that's, like, very taboo for a lot of people. It's like, don't talk about how you feel. If anything, don't acknowledge it ever, and just keep it moving. And when I sit down with people, from the minute I open the door at my studio, I am so intentional. Intentional about the way that I am speaking to someone. I am giving them all of my attention, and I'm actually listening to what they're saying because I genuinely care, because I know the community that I have built cares. Every single thing I do is for my audience. I live and breathe it. My husband is always like, we are in a relationship together, plus a third, which is the Daddy Gang. Like, all I do is for my audience. And so, yes, I think when a celebrity sits down, they're like, oh, shit, you actually care. This is kind of refreshing. You're not like, all right, next question.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Yeah, but do you think of yourself as a. This is not. No, no. Do you think of yourself as a journalist, then, in a way, or do you think of yourself as an entertainer? Because the other reason I mentioned this is I think that there's this sort of interesting cross thing happening. And I don't know, to be honest, because I grew up as a traditional journalist, I can't tell if I think this is healthy or not.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, I think it's so healthy. First of all, no, I consider myself Alex Cooper. I don't care if people consider me a journalist or a podcaster or just a girl that talks online every week. I know what I'm doing is changing a lot of lives. And I know a lot of women specifically, have been extremely impacted by the conversations. I'm Having. So if you want to put me in the box of a journalist who just interviewed the Vice President of the United States, sure, put me there. But I can also. I'm fine with podcaster, too.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, so let's talk about that. You did just interview the vice president ahead of this last election, you had tried to avoid politics.

[Alex Cooper]

I did.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Or at least you said you were trying to avoid politics. And then what happened? Did they reach out to you? Do you reach out to them?

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah, they reached out. Both sides reached out.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And you say both, so Trump reached out, too.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, we had a zoom call with Trump's team.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tell us about that.

[Alex Cooper]

I wasn't on it. I was like, let me know how that goes. I wasn't on. I wasn't. I wasn't on it. But they reached out. And I think the interesting thought for me was, what I have built. I'm the very competitive person. Back to my athlete nature days. I'm like, how do we keep ramping this shit up? And although I didn't want to technically get into politics, I did recognize there was a larger conversation that was directly impacting my audience. Right. Joe Rogan has a conversation. He knows his audience. I know my audience. And it's a bunch of women looking for someone to advocate for them every single day. And I understand people are like, oh, God, like, you're going to focus the whole time on abortion. Yeah, I am, because it's not about abortion. It's about women's right to their body. So I thought, why not have on someone that could potentially have a huge impact on our country? And so I did was fun.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What did you. I'm actually curious. What did you think of the interview itself?

[Alex Cooper]

I thought it was fascinating. It was the fastest interview I've ever done in my life. I was like, oh, my God, I have 50 minutes. It was like 45 to 50 minutes with the Vice President. And I like to get comfortable. Like, I'm in it for two hours, usually just, like, lubing the person up, like, hanging out, like, we're getting cozy. Okay. And with the vp, I was like, there was a clock on. So that was a little uncomfortable to me that I was on someone else's terms. But overall, I thought it was a very incredible convers. And the amount of research and time I put into this interview was probably the most I've ever done in my career because I had fracking conversations written down. I'm like, ooh, we could go into this and this. But I, at the end of the day, ultimately decided I Just wanted to focus on women's rights. And I know some people were like, why didn't you ask her about the border? Go watch cnn. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm going to talk about what's helpful to my audience.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's a little bit of controversy about that podcast. Because you did. Do you know about this?

[Alex Cooper]

No. What?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Because in D.C. this interview happened in D.C. yeah. In a hotel.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. Not in a hotel. It was like a Random House.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

It was like Random House, but apparently you can tell me. They spent. Meaning the Harris campaign spent like $100,000.

[Alex Cooper]

I did you know about this? It's hilarious.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

To build the studio.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah. That's not true.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Not true. To make it look like it was the studio that you. In la.

[Alex Cooper]

My studio that is gorgeous in Los Angeles doesn't even cost six figures. So I don't know how cardboard walls could cost six figures. But.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But do you think they did that? I mean, you saw.

[Alex Cooper]

Absolutely not with love to them. Oh, my God, it was gorgeous. But, like, it wasn't that nice. It wasn't like gorgeous marble? Like. No, that was not six figures.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So Trump goes on Rogan.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you think she should have gone on Rogan?

[Alex Cooper]

I'm not the Vice President of the United States. Maybe one day. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I think that's up to her. I think, like, listen, I think we had a great conversation. I think she could have hung with him. But I think at the end of the day, they clearly had a campaign strategy that I wasn't in these meetings and I just did my job.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Did you. Have you. Have you ever gone on Rogan yourself?

[Alex Cooper]

No.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of. What do you think of what he does? Since you guys are. You guys are basically head to head.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Do you feel that way? Do you feel like he's your. Your biggest competitor?

[Alex Cooper]

I don't think. I don't think of Joe when I'm having my morning coffee every morning. But I'm very aware of the comparison in the media. Every single article probably that's ever been written about me, Joe Rogan is in the same sentence. Which. Great. I mean, he's one of the biggest creators in the world. I've never met him. We had, like, a little, like, family tie when we were at Spotify together. And I have a lot of respect for what he's doing.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

We'll be right back.

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[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You have a big deal now at Sirius xm.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And some people say that one of the reasons that Sirius XM wanted to get you is because that you could become the successor at some point to Howard Stern. What do you think of that?

[Alex Cooper]

I just am like, I. Oh, my God. I was gonna say something, saying, like, I have a vagina, but that was gonna be inappropriate. So pretend. Let's rewind. I am a woman. Like, I don't need to keep being compared to these men. I'm like, I'm Alex Cooper. I'm gonna be Alex Cooper all day. And if I happen to sit next to Joe Rogan or Howard Stern, put me in the middle. But I'm not trying to be the next Howard Stern. I think Howard Stern is so talented. What he has built is incredible. And I think what I have built is also incredible.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So let's go back for just a moment in terms of this empire that you're building. No, no, I want to go back to the.

[Alex Cooper]

I was laughing at, like, why did I just say that? This is. This is the thing I think about all Day. I'm like, why did I just say that on this stage? But it's okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Just go back in time because one of the. So you're with Dave Portnoy and you're at Barstool.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I should ask, by the way, just because I think it's a fair question asked. I'm sure he would hate the question, which is there's been lots of things that have been written about Dave Portnoy that are not flattering would be the politest way to put it.

[Alex Cooper]

That is polite. I like that.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

What do you think of that, actually, as a woman who knows him and has also read these things and may know other people or know other things about that?

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, I think I could ask every single woman in this room, like, what's been said about your boss? Probably similar stuff. If you think about any media company. I remember at Barstool, everyone was like, how do you work for Dave Portnoy? I'm like, should I go over to like. And then I named all the media companies. Everyone's like, oh, you kind of have a point. Like, it's everywhere. It's not Dave Portnoy. So I think I was. If anything, it's like, of course that's what's being said about him and many men.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Well, I hope it's not everywhere. I really.

[Alex Cooper]

Not you. I feel like you're nice.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thank you. I'm trying. I'm trying. And so you're at.

[Alex Cooper]

You're. I had too many coffees today.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You're at Barstool. You're at Barstool. And we should say, by the way, you had a partner originally.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Sophie Franklin was your. Was your partner back in the day. And there was a riff, a break, which you can go read about, and there's a whole lot about that. In retrospect. Do you think that was the best thing that ever happened to you? Do you find that very sad that you sort of started one way and went another way? What's the likely emotional piece of that? Because a lot of people, and I think we have a lot of business leaders here who have partners or start with partners, end up without partners. And I'm really just curious how you think about that emotionally.

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, listen, I think a partnership is always going to be very difficult. I think anyone in this room that has a partner, even in life, like, it could be romantic, it can be business. Like, that is a very hard dynamic because you are two complete different people trying to come to one agreement. And when I started Call her daddy, Yes. I had a co host, and we were from very different backgrounds. We wanted very different things. Like, I was the crazy maniac being like, I've wanted this my entire life. I have never been more passionate about something. I'm going to drive myself through a wall until I get what I want. And I think we just had very different ideas of what success in our life looked like. I am a mother. I am never going to stop. I am going to be doing this till the end and then some. And we just did not align on what we wanted to do with our careers. And I think that's fine.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You go from Barstool, you go to Spotify, and then you go to Sirius.

[Alex Cooper]

Yes.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So tell us about what you're trying to build here.

[Alex Cooper]

Well, I think what I've built is a lifestyle and a community of people. Right. Like, at first, it started as an IP that had a catalog, and it was many episodes of me talking about my life. And then I started interviewing people, and now I have a catalog that is obviously worth a lot of money. But aside from a catalog of just content, what the content has built is a community of primarily women who show up every week and want to be seen and heard and want to engage with the content. And from there, I thought to myself, how can I build past just a show if I do have this community that wants more? And I started the Unwell Network, which is now my company, with my husband. And we have expanded where I'm now signing younger Gen Z creators to uplift their voices. And I'm very particular about who I choose that will work at this company. But I'm basically curating more and more creators so that when someone goes to my network, they know who I am and they like my content. And so they trust me to essentially create a palette for them of, like, what else do you want to listen to? Here you go. There's five other shows on top of that. Because of the community aspect, I wanted to launch live events. I think a lot of people think that Gen Z wants to sit behind their phones and they don't want to go to live events. That's. That's completely wrong. They want to be in person. They want to experience things. And so this past year and a half, I've launched two live tours that sold out in seven cities, and we've done live events. I did an event with the Red Sox where I showed up and we did an activation. We had more Unwell jerseys on women than Red Sox jerseys. Love you, Red Sox. And the GM said it was the highest grossing night of the year, aside from Pride. And it was on a random Wednesday against the worst team in the league. So it was a pretty big success. Yes. So it's live events, we have touring now, we have television shows, we have movies, we have podcasting, and I never sleep.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's going to be some other stuff which I want to talk about in just a second, but I want to ask you this about building other stars effectively. Is the goal long term to always have a show and to be the face and brand of this platform? Or, you know, you have Alex Earl now, who is taking off in a huge way. Right. She may become massively popular, which would be great, I would imagine, for the network.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

But how do you think about that long term? Do you just want to. Would you like to build five or 10 of those and then hang out and be the producer of those things?

[Alex Cooper]

I mean, I think I will always be talking because I literally can't shut up. But I like, I love talking. I'm always going to be sitting in front of camera in some capacity, whether it's a podcast or. Or it's a show on a streaming service. Like, it can go either way. It's me, it's a talk show. I'm sitting, I'm talking to people. I love what I do when it comes to the creators that I am signing. Of course, I'm always like, there's the singles, there's the doubles, and then there's the home runs and the triples. Right. And of course, I wish every single creator would be a triple. But I also think there's something beautiful about finding a creator. Where I was at when Dave Portnoy found me, I was a really ambitious kid that wanted to work hard and had a vision. And I think a lot of the people that I've started to work with, I see so much potential in them and I'm there to just help them in any way I can, mentor them, because I've been through a lot, but I don't think it's. I want to be the face of this. It's not an ego thing. I just. I'm pretty good at what I'm doing, so I'm just leading the charge a little bit here.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Tv.

[Alex Cooper]

Tv?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

You had a show during the Olympics. Do you want to do more tv?

[Alex Cooper]

I love television. Yes. I have so many meetings, I would say every other week with writers for scripted and unscripted. I'm very interested in the television space, and I think it's something that my audience yet Again, like, all I ever think about is my audience. Do they like to watch tv? Yes. Do they like podcasts? Yes. Do they like to go to concerts? Yes. Do they like live events? Yes. Do they like merchandise? Yes. And so I'm constantly going into the avenues where I think I can explore for my audience.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay, so one of the other things you're doing, which I noticed by, by the way, by myself originally, before I spoke to you on a Zoom last week, was that all of a sudden, after we booked you to come here, I was on Instagram and said that you have a secret surprise, something happening. And it said this date on it. And I thought, well, is she coming here? Is that the surprise? What is going on here?

[Alex Cooper]

Obviously.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And there's been a lot of speculation about what it is that you're trying to do.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

So if you could tell us what this. What are you doing? What is the surprise?

[Alex Cooper]

Well, I haven't announced it on Instagram yet, so you're getting, like, the inside scoop. But I'll give it to you. You've been nice. You've been nice. So basically, when I started my network, like I've been describing to you guys, how can we expand? How can we make this bigger? How can we give my audience more things? And naturally, when I thought about what could fit underneath the unwell umbrella, I wanted to do a consumer product. I have never put my face next to a product that I do not own. I have been very, very intentional about being very meticulous about everything I put my name on. And so I thought, what could be my first consumer product? Probably something that would make the most sense, would be that it could integrate into your unwell lifestyle. Right. You're at work, you're exhausted, you are hungover from a night before, you're exhausted. We're all exhausted. We're all unwell. So I am officially launching a hydration beverage called Unwell Hydration, and it is coming out January 1st, exclusive to targets for the first few months. And it is essentially a electrolyte drink with B vitamins. It has low sugar. Why I started this is because when I was on tour last year, I was exhausted. And every time I went to pick up an energy drink or any type of hydration drink, it's all catered to men. If you go on their Instagrams, it's. The packaging is for men. And a lot of times it has to do with high performance for, like, you have to be a professional athlete to drink this. And it's all made for men by men. Marketed to men. My. What about. What about us? What about us? What about the women? And of course, men can drink this, but is a product by women for everyone. So it is launching and I'm gonna get off the stage and go press post. Thank you. Do you wanna see it?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm very happy to see it, but who's making this drink?

[Alex Cooper]

I partnered with Nestle and Nestle, I decided, listen, I'm not a chemist. I know what my audience wants, but I'm not in there, like, cooking it up. So I went into so many meetings. I mean, I know guys, I do a lot, but not that I tried to figure out who would be the best partner. So I took so many meetings. And in between those meetings, I'm obviously looking into all the white spaces, also in a category not even of just hydration. Right. And when I met with Nestle, it made the most sense because I wanted to make sure the product was credible and absolutely I could get it into the most hands as possible. We all know distribution.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Lots of other beverages, drinks, foods. I mean, is that just the next piece of this whole?

[Alex Cooper]

I don't know. Let's start with Unwell hydration, then I'll come back next year, we can talk.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Okay. I have a final question for you, and it's actually about us, the legacy media.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Oh, I'm very curious. I'm going to ask you for advice.

[Alex Cooper]

Okay.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

There's a lot of people who say they distrust the legacy media and they actually trust you over the legacy media.

[Alex Cooper]

Yeah.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

And I'm very curious if you were advising us what you would tell us to do.

[Alex Cooper]

Oh, that's hard. I've been having a lot of conversations recently because people have come up to me asking, like, why you? And not, you know, like a news reporter. And what's challenging is when I was growing up with my parents, I would sit in our family room and I would watch the news with my parents. And I trusted the people and what they were saying. And unfortunately, yes, you're right, that has shifted. And I think there has been a wave of skepticism within the Gen Z. I'm just speaking for Gen Z and millennials, honestly. Like, I think a lot of us feel like we're getting sold a crock of every week because when someone is knocking at you every day like, believe this, believe this, believe this, and it's the only thing you're constantly talking about. People don't want to be told what to do anymore. I think Gen Z, the minds of young creators and adults and young individuals, people want to figure it out for themselves. They don't want to be told what to do. And I think creators like me, I'm not having on a politician every week. So when I do, it's like, oh, shit, we better listen to this. Because they know I'm going to come at it from a perspective of I don't really have an agenda. So I. I think my advice would be finding a way when you are creating or whether you are selling or in business, finding a way to find any form of humanity that is not so perfectly lined up that it feels like I'm getting sold a fucking ad. Like, come on, this is bullshit. It has to feel somewhat more organic. And I know that's challenging, but maybe you should give those young interns more of a voice and maybe you should listen to them when they have some ideas.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

That was an organic conversation, everybody. Alex Cooper. Thank you. Alex Cooper. Thank you so very much.

[Alex Cooper]

Thank you. Thank you, guys.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

Thank you. Dealbook Summit is a production of the New York Times. This episode was produced by Evan Roberts and edited by Sarah Kessler. Mixing by Kelly Piclo. Original music by Daniel Powell. The rest of the Dealbook event team includes Julie Zahn, Hilary Kuhn, Angela Austin, Haley Hess, Dana Perkowski, Matt Kaiser, and Yenhui Liu. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Nina Lassom, Ravi Mattu, Beth Weinstein, Kate Carrington, and Melissa Tripoli. Thanks for listening. Talk to you.