DealBook Summit Podcast: Erika Kirk on Why She Forgave Her Husband’s Killer

Host: Andrew Ross Sorkin, The New York Times
Guest: Erika Kirk, CEO of Turning Point USA
Date: December 4, 2025
Theme: Forgiveness after tragedy, the legacy of Charlie Kirk, and the future of civil discourse in America

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode delivers an emotional and probing conversation between Andrew Ross Sorkin and Erika Kirk, widow of Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk. Just months after Kirk's assassination—a seismic event in American political life—Erika discusses her public act of forgiveness toward her husband’s killer, her plan to carry on his legacy by leading Turning Point USA, and what it means to pursue genuine dialogue in a bitterly divided nation. The discussion touches on faith, the complexities of political activism, gender roles, and the power and pitfalls of social media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Forgiveness in the Wake of Tragedy

• Public Forgiveness at the Funeral

  • Erika reveals her choice to forgive Charlie's assassin was deeply personal and rooted in her Christian faith.
  • She emphasizes that forgiveness is not weakness:
    • "Forgiveness is for those of you who've been wronged, you know what it feels like…It frees you from a poison… You're truly, truly free." (Erika, 06:43)
  • The funeral speech’s pivotal moment—her statement of forgiveness—was spontaneous, not pre-planned:
    • "That part I specifically left open…That was a game time, exact second to second moment, that was not something pre planned." (Erika, 07:44)
  • Erika underscores that justice is a function of government, but personal forgiveness is not condoning wrongdoing.

• Faith as the Foundation

  • Erika attributes her capacity to forgive directly to her faith:
    • "That's the Lord. That's my faith. That's…everyone's own journey." (Erika, 07:11)
  • She doesn’t expect everyone to understand this perspective, acknowledging the deep rage and pain she felt.

2. Charlie's Legacy: Civil Discourse & Debate

• Promoting Dialogue Over Division

  • Both Erika and Andrew emphasize the importance Charlie placed on respectful conversation—even amid disagreement:
    • "Charlie was the perfect example of let's have a conversation…You should…have a Democrat and a Republican metaphorically duking it out…and then say, let's go get lunch afterwards." (Erika, 04:56)
  • Erika notes that Charlie worked to bridge ideological divides and set a high bar for campus debates:
    • "He would say, if you disagree with me, come to the front of the line…He would put the microphone down…out of respect for the person who was speaking." (Erika, 11:01)
    • "Charlie didn't attack people. He went after ideas and he wouldn't tell people what to say. He would encourage them how to think." (Erika, 13:08)

• The Importance of the First Amendment and Communication

  • Erika highlights the current breakdown in communication and the dangers of "cancel culture."
  • She asserts that the path to national healing runs through honest dialogue:
    • "If you really want to heal this country…you're going to have to do it by talking to each other. You can't keep canceling one another thinking that's going to resolve everything." (Erika, 13:43)

• Notable Commentary from Ezra Klein

  • Andrew reads Klein’s op-ed:
    • "You can dislike much of what Kirk believed…Kirk was practicing politics exactly the right way…A taste for disagreement is a virtue in a democracy." (Andrew quoting Ezra Klein, 14:25)

• Charlie's Openness to Being Wrong

  • Erika confirms that Charlie would admit when he was wrong or needed to research an issue more:
    • "He would say it, 'I haven’t thought about that… I need to look into that.'…debate to him was facts." (Erika, 15:33)

3. Personal Reflections: Family, Gender, and Career

• Balancing Family and Leadership

  • Erika shares her own upbringing by a single mother and being unafraid to lead while raising children:
    • "There really is no such thing as balance…there's always going to be a give and take." (Erika, 18:48)
    • "Pain…can be morphed into a form of purpose that you see will outlive you." (Erika, 19:37)
  • She encourages authentic life choices for women, reflecting on her shift from “boss babe” New York life to building a family-focused legacy with Charlie:
    • "If I would have stayed on that path… I would have lost out on some of the most beautiful moments of my life… Charlie was right." (Erika, 20:29)

• Serving Each Other in Marriage

  • She clarifies that “serving your husband” was mutual:
    • "He served me also. He would ask 'How can I serve you?' We would ask it to each other." (Erika, 18:27)

• Raising Children in the Spotlight and Social Media

  • Erika is cautious about social media, especially for her kids, and describes stepping back after Charlie’s murder:
    • "They're not getting a phone for a very long time…I took it all off my phone. I don't even have news apps… I let other people post for me…" (Erika, 22:11)
    • "When you kiss the bloody dead body of the person that you love, it pales in comparison to being called xyz." (Erika, 22:58)
  • She and Charlie observed the Sabbath by switching off devices:
    • _"On Friday night…he would turn off his phone and he would shove it in the junk drawer and he would say, 'shabbat shalom.'" (Erika, 25:51)

4. Controversy and Political Debate

• Responding to Critiques of Charlie’s Views

  • Erika argues that many controversial statements were taken out of context:
    • "When you listen fully…that disagreement in our country is what democracy is all about…He was trying to get people to think a little bit differently." (Erika, 27:24)
  • She does not shy away from uncomfortable dialogue nor refuse to address political disagreements.

• Views on Gun Violence after Personal Tragedy

  • Erika remains a supporter of the Second Amendment but emphasizes mental health as a root issue:
    • "That's not a gun problem. That's a human, deeply human problem. That is a sole problem. That is a mental… deeper issue." (Erika, 30:44)

5. The Future of the Republican Party and Turning Point USA

• Party Dynamics and Intra-party Debate

  • Erika discusses the "shuffling and mixing up" within the Republican Party—infighting as a precursor to cohesion:
    • "There is a lot of shuffling and mixing up… infighting… But I think it's healthy because…usually you come to a point of understanding of this is what we believe in." (Erika, 32:21 and 33:44)
  • She advocates for a return to basics and preparation for future election cycles.

• Influence of Female Voters and Government’s Role

  • Erika comments on why many young women might look to government for security:
    • "I think there's a tendency…where you almost look to the government as a form of replacement for certain things…What I don't want…is women…put off having a family…because you're relying on the government to support you…" (Erika, 35:28)

• On Endorsing Political Figures

  • Erika acknowledges friendship and endorsement of JD Vance but stresses focusing on the present achievement before looking ahead:
    • "I do have to say yes. I mean, we adore JD…But…I would ask that we enjoy the fact that…my husband worked so hard…" (Erika, 36:00)

• Relationship with the Current President

  • Erika affirms her personal friendship and ability to respectfully disagree with the president:
    • "Put aside politics…If I had an issue with someone, I would say that to them directly. And I would expect the same respect..." (Erika, 37:16)

6. Charlie's Role as Peacemaker

• Examples of Peacemaking
  • Erika recounts Charlie’s hope for Trump and Elon Musk to reconcile, which happened posthumously at a public event:
    • "He told me…I pray…and I have this feeling that by… Christmas…they're going to be friends again… I'll never forget seeing the photo of Elon and the President shaking hands…" (Erika, 38:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The answer to hate is not hate."
  — Andrew recalling Erika’s funeral speech (03:34)

• "Forgiveness …frees you to be able to think clearly and have a moment where your heart is free and you’re not bound to evil."
  — Erika Kirk (06:43)

• "Charlie didn’t attack people. He went after ideas and…[would] encourage them how to think."
  — Erika Kirk (13:08)

• "If you really want to heal this country, and I know Andrew, you feel the same way, to heal this country, you’re going to have to do it by talking to each other…you have the gift of communication. We’re speaking beings, and we need to get back to that as a country."
  — Erika Kirk (13:43)

• "When you kiss the bloody dead body of the person that you love, it pales in comparison to being called xyz."
  — Erika Kirk on dealing with online vitriol (22:58)

• "That’s not a gun problem. That’s a human, deeply human problem. That is a soul problem. That is a very deeper issue."
  — Erika Kirk on violence (30:44)

• "If you can only agree on 5%, that is…better than zero."
  — Erika Kirk (37:16)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Charlie's Legacy and Erika's Forgiveness: 02:11 – 07:08
• Decision to Forgive and Spiritual Foundation: 07:10 – 08:48
• On Civil Discourse and Debate: 11:01 – 15:56
• Erika’s Family and Leadership Insights: 16:14 – 22:11
• Social Media, Public Life, and Grieving: 22:11 – 26:56
• Policy Disagreement and Gun Violence: 27:22 – 30:58
• GOP Future and Turning Point’s Mission: 31:23 – 36:51
• Peacemaking Example (Trump and Musk): 37:55 – 39:04

Tone & Language

The conversation is direct, sometimes raw, but always respectful — balancing deep personal vulnerability with clear-eyed political discussion. Erika speaks with conviction and warmth, blending grief, faith, and a call to civility.

Summary

This episode is a testament to personal resilience and public leadership after tragedy. Erika Kirk’s account provides an intimate look at how forgiveness, faith, and a shared commitment to dialogue can shape not only a personal journey but also the course of a political movement. For listeners seeking hope for civil discourse and understanding in polarized times, this conversation is both sobering and inspiring.