DealBook Summit: "Netanyahu Is Defiant In Face Of Legal Challenges"

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Andrew Ross Sorkin, The New York Times
Guest: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

Episode Overview

This live episode, recorded at the 2025 DealBook Summit in New York City, centers on a wide-ranging conversation between Times journalist Andrew Ross Sorkin and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Major topics include the current prospects for peace in Gaza, Netanyahu’s ongoing legal battles and requests for a presidential pardon, Israel’s international reputation, and the future of the broader Middle East. Netanyahu is candid and combative, addressing both policy and deeply personal challenges while reiterating his core positions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Gaza Peace Plan and State of the Conflict

• Netanyahu claims progress on a three-phase plan for Gaza:
  1. Hostage Release & Coalition Pressure
     • With U.S. military and diplomatic effort, all living hostages released
     • President Trump’s Arab coalition increased pressure on Hamas
     • Remaining deceased hostages recovered
     • "The reason we got it is because we went into the last stronghold of Hamas in Gaza City. They didn't believe we'd do it." (03:00, Netanyahu)
  2. Disarmament and Demilitarization
     • Next phase targets Hamas militarily or uses an international force
     • "Can be done the easy way or the hard way... But if it needs to be done, Hamas can't stay there and they won’t." (02:58, Netanyahu)
  3. "Deradicalization" of Gaza
     • Discusses the need to reverse decades of incitement within Gazan society

2. Legal Troubles and the Pursuit of a Pardon

• Netanyahu describes a decade-long "witch hunt" of investigations and his ongoing corruption trial:
  • The "bribery" charge was for positive coverage on a website, not for material gain
  • Charges left involve minor gifts: a Bugs Bunny doll from 29 years ago and some cigars and champagne
  • "It's become a joke. I mean, taxicab drivers make jokes about it. It's so silly and so stupid." (05:19, Netanyahu)
• He states he requested a pardon from Israel’s President Herzog:
  • "In our system, when you ask for a pardon, you're not admitting to any guilt. You don't have to, and I don't." (05:38, Netanyahu)
• Laments time lost to legal proceedings:
  • “It’s... a lot easier to do them, Andrew, if you don’t have to spend eight hours a day, three times a week in this nonsense.” (06:50, Netanyahu)

3. The Two-State Solution, Abraham Accords, and Future Peace

• Netanyahu reiterates opposition to a Palestinian state:
  • Cites Gaza as proof a Palestinian state leads to insecurity and violence
  • "What we got was the most horrific massacre of Jews since the Holocaust." (07:23, Netanyahu)
• Notes overwhelming opposition in the Knesset to a Palestinian state
  • "99 to 11 opposed. I mean, that tells you something." (07:44, Netanyahu)
• Stresses willingness to seek peace but with unyielding focus on security
  • Suggests more Arab and Islamic countries could join the Abraham Accords

4. Relations with the Palestinian Authority

• Netanyahu refuses to support Palestinian Authority involvement in Gaza
  • Calls the PA corrupt with no credible elections or reforms
  • PA glorifies terror and pays terrorists, according to Netanyahu
  • "They want to be the masters of their own destiny. And I think we should give them a chance." (10:59, Netanyahu)

5. International Reputation and ICC Arrest Warrant

• Responds defiantly to ICC war crimes allegations and global criticism
  • Argues Israeli military exercises restraint, blames Hamas for civilian casualties
  • "No army has done what Israel has done to try to get civilians out of harm's way. And Hamas has done everything in its power to keep civilians in harm's way." (12:54, Netanyahu)
• Highly critical of ICC prosecutor and motivations behind charges
• Compares media and global criticism to historic antisemitism:
  • "The same lies that were leveled at the Jewish people are now being leveled at the Jewish state." (15:47, Netanyahu)
• On New York City’s mayor-elect saying he would enforce the ICC warrant:
  • "Yes, of course I will [come to New York] ... why don’t you wait and see?" (17:42, Netanyahu and earlier at 00:31, 00:37)

6. Israel’s Place in a Changing Middle East, Iran Nuclear Threat

• Netanyahu credits Israel with pushing back Iran’s nuclear progress through targeted strikes
  • "We knocked them [Iran’s atomic scientists] out in the first two minutes of the war along with their top command. We set them back." (22:11, Netanyahu)
• Says true peace in the Middle East must come from strength, not concessions
  • "You make peace with the strong. ... Israel has become a strong country. Even though we’re very small, ... we have gigantic talents and gigantic motivation." (20:18, Netanyahu)

7. Personal Motivation and Legacy

• Netanyahu, now 76, says he’s motivated by tasks, not years in office
  • Points to Israeli economic growth and technological innovation as defining achievements
  • "When history is within reach, you don't step aside, you step forward, and that's what I'm doing." (25:03, Netanyahu)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ICC and criticism of Israel:

  • "How come Israel is getting bashed so quickly? ... Israel is being blamed for fighting a war that Israel, in ways that no army has fought." (14:42-15:10, Netanyahu)

• On antisemitism and international perception:

  • "What has changed with Israel is not the disappearance of anti-Semitism ... but our ability to defend ourselves against those would-be annihilationists who want to destroy us and wipe us off the map." (15:39–16:15, Netanyahu)

• On coming to New York despite arrest threats:

  • "Yes, of course I will. ... Why don’t you wait and see? Yes, I'll come to New York." (17:42–18:00, Netanyahu)

• On his legal case:

  • "I received a Bugs Bunny doll. … I received some cigars and champagne bottles. That's what this trial is about." (04:51, Netanyahu)

• On prospects for peace:

  • "But to challenge it or to channel it into the blessings that Israel can give itself and the world, I think there is another revolution coming. I tend to steer it along with the achievement of a broader peace." (24:52, Netanyahu)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:31 / 17:42 / 18:00 – Netanyahu says he would come to New York despite threats of arrest.
• 01:03–03:30 – Outline of the Gaza peace plan and current progress.
• 03:53–06:50 – Discussion of Netanyahu’s trial, pardon request, and impact on leadership.
• 07:00–09:14 – Debate on two-state solution and Palestinian statehood.
• 11:17–17:38 – Discussion around Israel’s international reputation, ICC warrant, and anti-Semitism.
• 18:15–21:20 – On Ukraine-Russia peace efforts and approach to global peace.
• 22:03–23:07 – Netanyahu on Iran’s nuclear status and Israel’s preemptive moves.
• 23:07–25:03 – Netanyahu discusses personal motivations, plans, and Israeli innovation.

Conclusion

This episode provides a rare, in-depth look at Prime Minister Netanyahu’s world view at a turbulent time. He appears resolute—if not combative—in defending his actions regarding both policy and his personal legal predicaments, and reiterates faith in military strength, technological innovation, and his long-term vision for Israel’s future. The conversation is notable for Netanyahu’s willingness to address both controversial policy questions and personal criticisms head-on, maintaining his characteristic tone of defiance and certainty.