DealBook Summit Podcast: “Newsom Says Trump’s Attacks Are ‘Not Normal Behavior’”
Date: December 4, 2025 | Host: Andrew Ross Sorkin (The New York Times) | Guest: Governor Gavin Newsom (California)
Episode Overview
This engaging episode, recorded live at the 2025 DealBook Summit, features an in-depth, candid conversation between Andrew Ross Sorkin and California Governor Gavin Newsom. The discussion navigates the current state and future of the Democratic Party, major policy questions facing the country, Newsom’s pointed critiques of Donald Trump and Trumpism, the role of business and Silicon Valley in American politics, and Newsom’s own ambitions. With sharp exchanges, sardonic wit, and real-time reactions to audience questions, the episode is both a roadmap to the coming era of American politics and a revealing look at Newsom's political philosophy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The State and Future of the Democratic Party
Timestamp: [01:47] – [04:38]
- Newsom asserts, “The Democratic Party of old is no more,” citing recent electoral victories in California and across key states as proof the party is “back on its toes” and more “unified” than critics claim ([02:10]).
- He describes a big-tent party defined by the dialectic between “pre-distribution” and “redistribution” Democrats, noting persistent divides over policy but insisting energy and unity have returned after 2024 setbacks.
Quote:
“We have to be more culturally normal. We have to be a little less judgmental. We have a party that I think needs to design and develop a compelling economic vision for the future. If we don't democratize our economy, we're not going to save democracy.” — Gavin Newsom [00:26], [04:38]
2. Wealth Inequality and Policy Approaches
Timestamp: [06:31] – [09:57]
- Newsom opposes a state-level wealth tax, arguing, “You can't isolate yourself from the 49 others. We're in a competitive environment,” and outlines practical and philosophical objections ([06:40]).
- Instead, he champions structural solutions such as reducing costs, manufacturing essentials (like $11 insulin), and early interventions (like “baby bonds” for children), emphasizing the urgency to “democratize our economy” ([09:25]).
Quote:
“We have an economy that is broken for too many people… Not in redistributive policies, believes in progressive tax policy, but is mindful that businesses can't thrive in a world that's failing.” — Gavin Newsom [05:58]
3. The Democratic Comeback and Lessons from Defeat
Timestamp: [04:16] – [05:58]
- Newsom candidly discusses being “shellacked” by Trump in the previous election and attributes Democratic setbacks to “inflation scars,” interest rates, incumbency challenges, and narrative failures.
- He stresses the party must be “more culturally normal” and less judgmental, especially on politically powerful issues like the border.
4. Political Ambitions & National Outlook
Timestamp: [10:02] – [11:13]
- Sorkin presses Newsom about 2028 presidential speculation, to which Newsom responds with humility, admitting he’s “thought about it,” but is focused on accountability and the present fight: “It was about fighting fire with fire… to address what Donald Trump is trying to do to this country. He's trying to wreck this country.” ([11:13])
5. Emergency Democracy Measures and Gerrymandering
Timestamp: [14:45] – [16:28]
- Newsom details California’s response to Republican gerrymandering, defending temporary adjustments as a necessary “fight fire with fire” strategy and upholding ultimate commitment to independent redistricting ([15:25]).
- He draws distinctions between transparent public map-making in California and secretive efforts elsewhere: “These were the first maps in US history to go on the ballot. Talk about transparency, talk about democracy.” ([15:57])
6. Rhetoric Wars – Trump, Normalization, and Social Media
Timestamp: [16:30] – [19:23]
- Sorkin confronts Newsom over his own harsh social media posts about Trump, evoking Trumpian rhetoric. Newsom defends his style as “putting a mirror up” to Trump’s “not normal behavior,” insisting the intention is to “wake everybody up” ([17:14], [17:59]).
- Newsom relates that Fox News—and even his wife—criticized his language, highlighting double standards in public discourse and arguing for the strategic, iterative nature of his confrontational tone.
Quotes:
“There's this normalization of deviancy, and it was becoming socialized, normalized... This is not normal behavior.” — Gavin Newsom [17:14]
“I tried to put a mirror up to what the hell is going on in this country. This is not normal behavior.” — Gavin Newsom [17:59]
7. Satire, Fundraising, and Grift
Timestamp: [19:01] – [21:06]
- Newsom describes selling tongue-in-cheek “Trump Signature series knee pads” to satirize business and institutional leaders “bending the knee” to Trump—raising hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process ([19:13]).
- He contextualizes this within a wider moral critique, lamenting the “grift,” crony capitalism, and what he sees as the destruction of American free enterprise by self-dealing and political access.
8. Trump’s Ambitions and Election Integrity
Timestamp: [21:23] – [24:09]
- Addressing Trump’s 2028 hats and ongoing political machinations, Newsom says, “I take him more seriously than most,” and voices explicit fears for the integrity of future U.S. elections, highlighting Trump’s deployment of tactical federal forces and shifts in election administration ([23:07]).
Quote:
“You will not have a free and fair election as we know them today in the United States of America if Speaker Jeffries has not sworn in a year plus from now. I really believe that.” — Gavin Newsom [13:34]
9. Silicon Valley’s Political and Economic Shifts
Timestamp: [24:09] – [27:21]
- Newsom acknowledges that prominent Silicon Valley figures have distanced themselves from Democrats, but pushes back on the narrative of mass exodus, citing returns and major company headquarters in California ([24:44]).
- He criticizes emerging tech plutocrats for self-dealing, commending the New York Times’ reporting on conflicts of interest and warning that today’s “crony capitalism” and lack of strong ethical lines poses deep risks ([28:06]).
10. California’s Strengths and Criticisms
Timestamp: [29:50] – [33:05]
- Responding to national skepticism about California, Newsom reels off statistics to demonstrate resilience: fastest-growing and now fourth-largest economy globally, a pulsating tech and R&D sector, and aggressive policies to address housing and homelessness ([30:43]).
- Pushes back on “California Derangement Syndrome” and insists that critics’ talking points are outdated as the state makes genuine progress.
11. Business, Fiduciary Duty, and Trump-Era Challenges
Timestamp: [33:53] – [35:35]
- Newsom distinguishes between businesses acting out of fiduciary responsibility (e.g., Tim Cook/Apple and China tariffs) and those complicit in cultivating a climate of cronyism, where “if you don’t do the bidding, you don’t get the contract.”
12. Leadership on Climate and Tech Regulation
Timestamp: [35:35] – [38:57]
- Newsom draws on history (Reagan, Nixon, the Clean Air Act) to defend California’s tech and environmental policy independence. He criticizes automakers and the Trump administration for collusion to dilute standards, viewing it as undermining U.S. competitiveness with China in the coming wave of EVs and tech stack dominance ([36:17]).
Quote:
“China understands the opportunity. It's about markets, it's about supply chains, and it's about influence... and we are doubling down on stupid here in the United States.” — Gavin Newsom [38:00]
13. 2028 Nominee Qualities and Polarization
Timestamp: [38:57] – [40:45]
- Asked who should be the 2028 Democratic presidential nominee, Newsom responds with broad criteria: “A hard-headed pragmatist… someone who’s a repairer of the breach…”
- He underscores the exhausting polarity in American politics and his desire for respect even across ideological differences—naming guests like Charlie Kirk and Newt Gingrich on his podcast ([39:16]).
- On who the Republican challenger may be: “Trump… doesn’t care if he’s the heel or the hero. He cares that he’s the star.”
14. Newsom’s Own Future
Timestamp: [41:23] – [43:13]
- If not in elected office or running for president, Newsom says he would return to small business—his original passion—while offering a Justice Brandeis quote: “In a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen,” reflecting a broader civic calling ([43:07]).
Notable Quotes (With Timestamps)
- “If we don't democratize our economy, we're not going to save democracy.” — Newsom [00:26]
- “We got shellacked in the last election… Donald Trump crushed us in the last election.” — Newsom [04:16]
- “There's this normalization of deviancy… This is not normal behavior.” — Newsom [17:14]
- “This is a different level of grift than we've ever experienced in our lifetime.” — Newsom [26:40]
- “California Derangement Syndrome… I’m pretty proud of it.” — Newsom [31:41]
- “In a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen.” — Newsom [43:07]
Memorable Moments
- Newsom reveals selling mock “Trump Signature series knee pads” as both satire and a real fundraising device ([19:19]).
- He describes direct, if singular, encounters with Trump, including the Oval Office painting of FDR and Trump’s jokes about a “four-term” presidency ([21:38]).
- Newsom calls out his critics as well as the hypocrisy in media reactions to his social media posts versus Trump’s behavior ([17:59]).
- In a rare moment of humility, Newsom shares, “Most of my life I have been counted out. I’m a 960 SAT guy,” remarking on his unconventional path ([10:42]).
Timestamps for Major Segments
- [01:47] — The Democratic Party’s evolution and unity debate
- [06:31] — Wealth tax & alternatives for economic inclusion
- [10:02] — 2028 speculation and national leadership
- [14:45] — California’s emergency democracy & gerrymandering
- [16:30] — Social media, rhetoric, and normalization in politics
- [19:01] — Satirical knee pads, business complicity, and cronyism
- [21:23] — Trump’s ambitions and election integrity threats
- [24:09] — Silicon Valley’s shifting politics and business state
- [29:50] — Perceptions and realities of the California model
- [35:35] — Climate & tech regulation, China competitiveness
- [38:57] — Qualities needed in Democrats’ 2028 nominee
- [41:23] — Newsom on his own post-governor ambitions
Tone, Language, & Speaker Attribution
The conversation is brisk, candid, at times biting, and woven through with Newsom’s characteristic mix of humor, historical reference, and earnest warnings about American democracy. Both Sorkin and Newsom maintain a direct, sometimes confrontational but ultimately respectful engagement—anchoring the conversation in real-world stakes and the urgent choices facing the Democratic Party, Silicon Valley, and the nation.
For listeners seeking a roadmap to 2026 and beyond, and an unfiltered perspective on Gavin Newsom’s worldview, this episode offers sharp insights, rare candor, and memorable moments of political theater.