DealBook Summit 2025: The New Rules for Leadership

Podcast: DealBook Summit
Host: New York Times, moderated by David Brooks
Date: December 8, 2025
Featured Leaders:

• Alex Chriss (CEO, PayPal)
• Beth Ford (CEO & President, Land O’Lakes)
• Bob Jordan (President & CEO, Southwest Airlines)
• Ynon Kreiz (Chairman & CEO, Mattel)
• Emma Walmsley (CEO, GSK)
• Pete Nordstrom (CEO, Nordstrom)

Episode Overview

In this special episode of the DealBook Summit series, New York Times columnist David Brooks helms a roundtable of six top business leaders, each bringing unique perspective from sectors spanning finance, agriculture, toys, retail, aviation, and pharmaceuticals. The discussion—recorded live before an audience—dives into the evolving meaning and demands of modern leadership, practical strategies for navigating change, and the personal and societal stakes of the CEO role. Topics range from finding meaning in daily work and weathering industry headwinds to CEO compensation, the global competitive landscape, time management, and the real-world pressures created by politics and geopolitics.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Makes Leadership Meaningful Today?

[02:53] – [21:55]

• Beth Ford (Land O’Lakes): Emphasizes "the intimacy" of Land O’Lakes’ cooperative model—direct work with farmers in rural America—and the company’s mission to keep the food system resilient.

  “All of the things that I’ve learned are consolidating right to this most important work of my life where I need to elevate the understanding and the importance and thus the resilience of what is happening in these communities, these farms, the food system.” [04:13]

• Alex Chriss (PayPal): Finds meaning in empowering small businesses with tools and capital, describing how PayPal helped a North Carolina family business survive a hurricane.

  “That’s what makes my heart beat faster, gets me jumping out of bed in the morning. … It’s those individual small businesses that are able to survive, employ the majority of employees and be able to thrive because of the products and services we can put into the market.” [06:05]

• Pete Nordstrom (Nordstrom): Takes pride in his company’s ability to weather industry disruption while preserving core values and culture, “not being the first generation Nordstroms to screw it up.” [08:42]

• Ynon Kreiz (Mattel): Reflects on the social impact of toys—on both grand and granular scales—from the global cultural phenomenon of the Barbie movie to a small family playing Uno in a Brazilian fishing village.

  “Having that impact is truly meaningful.” [13:22]

• Emma Walmsley (GSK): Finds the medical mission fundamentally motivating, citing milestones like spinning out GSK’s consumer business to double-down on pharma investment and the profound, real-world impact—potentially reaching 2.5 billion people through access programs this decade.

  “The reason to get up every time something falls over is so that you can meet this enormous amount of unmet need in the world.” [17:15]

• Bob Jordan (Southwest): While proud of Southwest’s transformation, is most moved by the way the company puts “people at the heart of the brand,” sharing a moving story of employee support.

  “That loyalty of the company to our employees and therefore the desire to be passionate about service because they received it is what I love about Southwest Airlines.” [20:32]

2. Superpowers, CEO Loneliness, and the Head-Heart Divide

[21:55] – [36:33]

• Pattern Recognition & Curiosity
  Alex Chriss describes his ability to spot patterns across industries and bring new ideas into his business:

  “So much of our job is pattern recognition, and so much of our job is seeing what’s working and what’s not working. … I love just being curious in how other businesses, other industries, other things are being run… and then apply them back to the products and services that we’re building.” [22:38]

• Asking the Right Questions
  Emma Walmsley credits her classics background and experience in multiple industries for her skill in asking incisive questions outside her expertise:

  “Being able to ask the right questions when you’re not an expert in a subject has been very helpful.” [24:51]

• Loneliness at the Top
  Pete Nordstrom’s co-CEO arrangement with his brother is a “privilege” and a buffer against isolation. Others lean on family; Beth Ford describes decompressing with her spouse. [26:04], [26:55]

3. Difficult Decisions and Leadership Styles: Fear or Love?

[28:01] – [36:33]

• Leaders share the emotional strain of layoffs and tough calls—Ynon Kreiz recounts his early realization of how much a CEO’s choices shape lives:

  “That was the first time it actually hit me that, wait a minute, this is real like impact you have on people’s lives.” [31:52]

• Emma Walmsley rejects Machiavelli’s logic that it’s better to be feared than loved:

  “Fear, you know, I’d never have that as an aspiration, as a CEO, because you want people to be able to bring you bad news. And if they’re scared of doing that, you’re going to have a real problem in terms of transparency and pace of decision making.” [33:17]

• Alex Chriss:

  “Fear is very effective, but it has a ceiling.” [35:08]

• Bob Jordan: Favors building trust through vulnerability:

  “Love sustains for a long time.” [36:00]

4. Time Management & CEO Priorities

[36:33] – [41:44]

• Emma Walmsley:

  “Time allocation is strategy for a CEO. … I do very obnoxious color coding of my diary and which meetings I go to and all of that kind of stuff, I find that quite effective.” [37:22]

• Beth Ford: Emphasizes being physically present with teams and adjusting her schedule based on emerging needs:

  “Are you touching the things you need to touch, the people that you need to be present with?” [38:31]

• Bob Jordan: Prioritizes creating blank space for reflection and non-meeting work:

  “I put more and more of my calendar to blank time over the years…” [41:20]

• Alex Chriss:

  “The thing that would probably surprise people the most is how often we say no.” [40:04]

5. Staying Relevant Amid Industry Disruption

[42:02] – [48:21]

• Pete Nordstrom: On keeping an old retail brand youthful:

  “We don’t want to be known as a heritage brand. We want to be known as a brand with heritage.” [42:22]

• Ynon Kreiz: The emotional connection of iconic brands—seeing customers not just as consumers but as “fans,” and the necessity of brand diversification and IP-driven growth in modern entertainment. [44:36]

6. CEO Pay and Public Perception

[48:36] – [52:04]

• Emma Walmsley:

  “The standard answer you will always get to that question is the pay is the board decision. … What really motivates people is the environment they’re in, whether the work is worthwhile and purposeful.” [49:44]

• Bob Jordan: On pay being largely at risk and tied to outcomes:

  “I believe 92 plus percent of my pay is completely at risk and only shows up if our shareholders do well as an example. … What’s really important is making sure that you’re only paid if you do your job and your stakeholders are rewarded.” [50:57]

7. AI, Tech Competition, and the Pace of Change

[52:04] – [57:28]

• Alex Chriss (PayPal):

  “Every day I wake up and see startups that are new competitors, that are incredibly well funded, that are trying to compete with us. The technology changes every day.” [52:58]

• Emma Walmsley: On AI and LLMs revolutionizing health care:

  “The most exciting thing is when you turn a 10% success rate into a 20% success rate or you turn 10 years into eight years or five years… We have an agent that we call AI scientists…” [54:05]
  “I am a deep believer that it’s going to change everything in health care. There’s a reason why healthcare is the number one use case…” [54:24]

8. China, Global Competition & Industrial Policy

[57:28] – [66:48]

• Beth Ford:

  “70% of the gene edited patents in the food system come from China. They are investing… I think it’s five times what the United States is investing in terms of technology.” [57:54]
  “Are they leapfrogging us? They’re certainly investing heavily in the food system. Food self-sufficiency is their primary goal and they’re investing accordingly…” [59:12]

• Ynon Kreiz: Mattel diversified its manufacturing footprint to avoid overconcentration in China; now produces in 7 countries. [61:11]

• Emma Walmsley: On China’s industrial policy:

  “There is an approach to long term industrial strategy which has served the extraordinary acceleration of their progress very, very well… Setting political models aside, there is an approach to long term industrial strategy…” [64:18]

9. Trade, Tariffs, Regulation, and Political Instability

[67:08] – [73:19]

• Beth Ford: Describes the toll of shifting trade lanes, tariff instability, and consolidation in U.S. farming—linking it to broader economic and generational strain on rural America.

  “Less than 5% [of grain farmers] will make money. Consolidation is occurring… There are more farmers over the age of 75 than there are under 32.” [68:56]
  “This is a dramatically difficult time. It is incredibly emotional right now. We are in the heart of it.” [70:57]

• Bob Jordan: Political cycles hinder long-term industry investment:

  "You can't get unified focus on the things that really matter. A lot of things take longer than that [political] cycle to work on and invest in, especially if it's private investment." [71:38]

• All: Generally describe open access and engagement with the current U.S. administration on regulatory matters. [73:00]

10. Changing Customer Demographics & the Future of Business

[73:20] – [75:20]

• Pete Nordstrom:

  “Customers were more affluent and… willing to spend money on really nice things. ... [But] price is a hugely important consideration for anything people are buying...” [73:43]

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Brooks’ humor on Latin degrees:

  “As someone who has that kind of degree, has it been great or inconsequential that you have this degree in Latin and classical? Well, you can name a lot of diseases that are long.” [17:57]

• Emma Walmsley, on Latin’s value in leadership:

  “I actually think the understanding of language, Latin is an incredibly logically constructed language that allows you to see patterns and I think has been incredibly helpful to understand the kind of conceptual constructs of organizations and is definitely a trigger for being able to play three dimensional chess when you’re trying to look through the long, long term…” [18:38]

• David Brooks, self-deprecating on meetings:

  “I’ve been a columnist in the times for 22 years. I have never gone to a meeting.” [41:44]

• Ynon Kreiz (Mattel), on the emotional power of brands:

  “Play begins in childhood, but doesn’t end there.” [44:41]

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:53] – Leaders discuss what’s most meaningful about being CEO
• [14:02] – Emma Walmsley on the GSK mission and pharma innovation
• [21:55] – “What’s your superpower?” – Unique CEO attributes
• [25:59] – Is it lonely at the top? Support networks and sharing the burden
• [28:01] – Difficult decisions; layoffs and separations
• [32:32] – Fear versus love as a motivator in leadership
• [36:33] – Time management: techniques and philosophies
• [42:02] – Industry headwinds: retail and heritage brands
• [48:36] – CEO compensation: perspectives and reasoning
• [52:04] – Tech CEO challenges and the velocity of change
• [54:05] – AI and LLMs in healthcare: the next revolution
• [57:28] – China’s investment and global competition
• [67:08] – Political instability, tariffs, and trade: impact on business
• [73:20] – Demographic change and customer strategy in retail

Tone & Style

Informal, probing, and lightly self-effacing—Brooks fosters candid reflections and unscripted insights, with participants alternating between sober analysis, humor, and personal anecdotes. The episode is rich in specifics but accessible to business-minded listeners or anyone interested in leadership in today’s world.

Takeaways for the Listener

• Leadership today requires a blend of adaptability, empathy, long-term vision, and the humility to rely on others.
• The most meaningful aspects of the CEO role come from tangible impact on people—employees, customers, communities—not financial markers or institutional milestones.
• The pace and complexity of change—technological, cultural, geopolitical—has never been higher, demanding continual pattern recognition, difficult decisions, and the courage to focus on a core mission.
• Modern leadership, at least for this cohort, is a mix of rigorous discipline, emotional intelligence, and an ability to sometimes just say “no.”

This episode offers a rare window into the hearts and strategies of leaders shaping industries in real time—revealing as much about the human side of leadership as the business logic behind it.