Listener Questions | Paint, Countertops, and Designing With Your Spouse

Summary

Dear Alice | Interior Design Podcast Summary

Episode: Listener Questions | Paint, Countertops, and Designing With Your Spouse
Release Date: November 27, 2024

Hosts Jessica Bennett and Suzanne Hall dive into listener queries centered around interior design challenges, offering expert advice with their signature wit and style. This Thanksgiving edition not only celebrates the holiday but also provides valuable insights for creating harmonious and aesthetically pleasing living spaces.

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Thanksgiving Traditions and Inspirations (00:12 - 07:05)

Suzanne and Kathy kick off the episode by sharing their personal Thanksgiving traditions. Kathy reminisces about setting the table at her mother's home, emphasizing the joy of curating the perfect tablescape using Grandma's special dishes. She states, “I get to decide what the tablescape and the look and feel are” (02:45).

Suzanne highlights her family's gaming traditions, mentioning the annual football games that accompany their Thanksgiving celebrations. The conversation underscores the blend of family tradition and personal contribution in creating a memorable holiday experience.

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Listener Questions and Expert Advice

1. Managing Paint Colors in a Home
Question by Rowan Grebek (07:28): How do you know when too much paint is too much of a good thing? Can I color wash every room? I have a three-bed, two-bath house with a mudroom and combined great room/kitchen. How many different colors should you have in a home? Thinking five.

Suzanne advises maintaining a cohesive general color palette for communal areas, recommending neutral tones to allow flexibility and harmony. She mentions, “99.9% of the time, these general spaces are going to be in neutral” (09:09), ensuring that individual rooms can express personal styles without clashing with the home’s overall aesthetic.

Kathy reinforces this by suggesting, “I think you're spot on. But yeah, general color,” emphasizing the importance of a unified base color that ties the home together while allowing for distinct room-specific colors.

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2. Window Treatments for Privacy and Light
Question by Ashley Wood (17:58): How would you treat windows that face the neighbor's mechanical room and hot tub? Having sunlight and symmetry is important to me and I'd like to keep the windows open during the day.

Kathy recommends using drapery sheers with an open weave to balance light intake while obscuring external views. She explains, “It lets a lot of light in, but it's not as sheer as, let's say, like a wedding veil” (17:58). This solution maintains natural light and symmetry without compromising privacy.

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3. Agreeing on Decor with Your Spouse
Question by Carly Blake (19:08): How do you agree on decor with your spouse? Can you share strategies/tips on how to approach.

Suzanne introduces the "North Star" method, encouraging couples to gather images that represent their individual tastes. She states, “There’s going to be more common denominators than you think” (20:25), facilitating a collaborative approach to blending styles.

Kathy adds that compromise is essential, noting, “You're gonna find ways with pictures to help show common denominators so you guys can come together” (24:13). They emphasize the importance of understanding each other’s preferences and finding mutual ground to create a harmonious design.

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4. Painting East or West-Facing Spaces
Question by Kathleen Pinkney (28:02): There is lots of guidance online about south/north-facing homes, but not about east or west-facing spaces. My instinct is to paint dark spaces a light color, but I've heard that is wrong?

Kathy supports Kathleen’s instinct, asserting, “I feel like that would be ideal” (28:25). She advises testing paint swatches in different lighting conditions and considering the room’s primary use times. For instance, dining rooms used in the evening might benefit from different tones than bedrooms used primarily in the morning.

Suzanne concurs, adding the importance of natural light and surrounding landscaping: “Your natural light matters. Your landscaping matters” (31:22). They also discuss the impact of artificial lighting, recommending soft white (2700K-3000K) bulbs to maintain warmer tones and avoid ashy appearances.

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5. Countertops and Backsplashes
Questions by Mary Olive:

a. Eased Edge vs. Bullnose Countertops
How long has eased edge countertop been popular? Would I be crazy to do a full bullnose in a new kitchen right now?

Kathy affirms the timelessness of eased edges, sharing, “It is timeless for me” (32:18).

Suzanne explains the aesthetic differences: “An eased edge is basically like a straight edge, a flat edge… it takes the edge off” vs. “A bullnose is like a full radius” (35:00). They highlight that both styles are appropriate depending on personal taste and the home’s overall design, with bullnose adding a sculpted, artistic flair.

b. Marble Ledges Above Stovetops
Would you recommend little marble ledges above stovetops? How deep do you recommend for those ledges? And how would you decorate them, Mary?

Kathy enthusiastically recommends marble ledges, suggesting a depth of 4 to 6 inches to accommodate daily essentials while allowing for decorative items. She advises aligning items neatly for a cohesive look: “I don’t know why I’m so conservative, but anyway, go six” (40:31).

c. Mixing Quartz Countertops with Marble Backsplashes
Is mixing a plain white quartz countertop with a classic marble backsplash a dumb idea?

Suzanne and Kathy advise against this pairing, noting that it can appear disjointed: “It just looks like an accent wall for your kitchen countertops” (42:54). They recommend selecting complementary materials that enhance the kitchen’s unified aesthetic.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts (43:30 - 45:34)

The hosts wrap up by expressing gratitude to listeners for their questions and support. They encourage feedback and participation in future episodes, emphasizing the community-driven nature of the podcast. Additionally, they briefly mention upcoming Black Friday promotions, though listeners were advised to skip advertisements in this summary.

Suzanne summarizes the episode’s essence: “We're talking about eased edge, bullnose, double bullnose. You want to know something kind of cool that I've been seeing” (38:53), reinforcing the episode’s focus on nuanced interior design choices.

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Notable Quotes:

• “I get to decide what the tablescape and the look and feel are.” — Kathy (02:45)

• “99.9% of the time, these general spaces are going to be in neutral.” — Suzanne (09:09)

• “A picture is worth a thousand words.” — Kathy (24:12)

• “Choose your paint with the right light bulbs in their sockets. That matters.” — Kathy (31:00)

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Key Takeaways:

• Color Coordination: Limit the overall color palette to maintain cohesion, using neutral tones for communal areas and allowing personal expression in individual rooms.

• Window Treatments: Opt for drapery sheers to balance light intake and privacy, especially for windows facing less desirable views.

• Spousal Collaboration: Utilize visual tools like image boards to identify common design preferences, fostering compromise and mutual satisfaction.

• Lighting Considerations: Tailor paint colors to the natural and artificial lighting of each room, ensuring colors remain consistent and appealing throughout the day.

• Countertop Choices: Select countertop edges that complement the kitchen’s design aesthetic, with eased edges offering timeless simplicity and bullnose edges providing artistic flair.

For more insights and design tips, tune into future episodes of Dear Alice | Interior Design.

Transcript

[Suzanne]

Welcome to Dear Alice, a lifestyle approach to interior design.

[Kathy]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. This is the Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving edition.

[Suzanne]

So excited.

[Kathy]

I know. We're finally there.

[Corey]

Yes.

[Kathy]

Magical. I can smell the pies baking. Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Stuffing.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Corey]

Cowboys playing horribly.

[Kathy]

There you go. That's what the husbands are all thinking. Yeah, yeah. They're thinking football. Is that who's playing this Thanksgiving?

[Corey]

Cowboys play every Cowboys and the Lions play every Thanksgiving.

[Suzanne]

Oh, I like a tradition like that.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah. Consistency, togetherness.

[Corey]

Yes. Well, they don't play each other. They just play a game and then it's their jam. Yeah. And then it's whoever they happen to be playing that year, so.

[Kathy]

Cool. Yeah, well, it's.

[Corey]

That's been the tradition in my family forever, so that's what I do.

[Suzanne]

Okay. And right now we're. You guys are going to be hearing this the day before Thanksgiving. So you are probably getting ready and prepping your food or getting ready to go somewhere. And so, yeah, we're like, let's do a fun podcast. This is like, Kathy, you don't need paper and pen to be taking notes down on fireplace box measure instruments or anything like that. Like, this is just for you to listen to and you just have your friends rallying around.

[Kathy]

You're peeling potatoes.

[Suzanne]

Okay.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Or you do that turkey troll.

[Kathy]

That's right.

[Suzanne]

Whatever. What is it?

[Kathy]

You can be reading a recipe and listening at the same time and it's not that hard. It's not. This is the easy listening edition of Dear Alice.

[Corey]

So with that theme, and before we get into the questions, one for you guys. What is your Thanksgiving specialty? Like, what's the thing that you're always making? Yeah. What do you always do?

[Kathy]

I guess I get to set the table. At least I remember that's what my mom's had me do the last couple years. Which is really fun because mom has a party pantry at her house, which is a glorified walk in closet in the middle of a large hallway. It's large walk in closet and it's got a place for hangers. It's got. And she has all of her tablecloths hanging. Yes. All ironed and folded just right. And they're all hanging like pants, you know, in the. And then all of the serving dishes are back there on multiple shelves nested together. So I get to go back there and I get to decide what the tablescape and the look and feel and I get to just doll the whole big huge Thanksgiving table up and decide on the serving dishes and the plates. And sometimes we get out Grandma's dishes. She has Thanksgiving dishes, which are kind of a. They kind of remind me of a.

[Suzanne]

Toilet bowed of a thing.

[Kathy]

Yes. Like a navy bluish. Yeah. On a sort of off white ground. And it just looks like tradition and Thanksgiving and everything else. And so it's just a really fun time. You're. I'm, like, washing serving dishes and getting out the tablecloth and straining things out, and. Yeah, it's really, really fun. I know a lot of people are great at cooking, and my brother makes these amazing mashed potatoes that are just so silky smooth, and we all love them, and that's his specialty. And we all come together with our specialties. But at mom's house, I get to do the whole look and feel and set the table and choose the dishes for the.

[Corey]

I feel like that fits.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, you're the aesthetic director.

[Corey]

Exactly.

[Kathy]

Yes. Of Thanksgiving. The vibe controller, which is so fun. And you just kind of take your time at it and. Yeah. Think it out. And mom's dishes are just. They're just so much more fun than my own, I feel like, because they have meaning, and I remember them from being a kid. Some of them. Some of them are new. Some are old. A lot of old. Some are grandmas, so it's fun. How about you? What do you guys make? What's your specialty?

[Suzanne]

I. Because there's things that, like, no one touches that your mom does. Right. Like, she does the turkey, like, and we still go to my mom's house, usually she does a turkey. She makes, like, the craziest good, like, stuffing. She does, like, all those main staples that she always has, and they're amazing. But there are things, like, as I've gotten older that I've, like, learned to like that I'm like, we never had this at Thanksgiving. Like, I should. I should contribute something. Right. And so my mom, she was of the generation with the cranberry sauce, where you just put it out of the can and you just do the old slice of the jellies. Right. I hate it. Never ever, like, appreciated a cranberry appetizing.

[Corey]

When it looks like a can, I.

[Suzanne]

Can see the imprint of the can, you know? And so, like, I always make cranberry sauce. I'm. I'm probably the only one that eats it, but I love it. I love the color on my plate because otherwise it's just like a pile of gravy on everything. And I love salt brown color cranberry, and I love green. And so, like, I'm usually trying to, like, fill in the gaps of the things that I really want to like.

[Kathy]

Suzanne brings the color to the plate.

[Suzanne]

I bring the color to the plate. So I'll do the cranberry sauce, which I think is so yummy. I love cooking cranberry sauce, too, because you just see that they burst when they start to get warm. And I just think it's so pretty. And the sound of it, it's just. It's amazing. So I love cranberry sauce, and I make an apple pie.

[Kathy]

Yes. And your apple pie is painstaking. It's so good, and it's so delicious. But I swear to you, sue probably spends 16 hours making. I'm just kidding. It probably really is like, six hours.

[Suzanne]

Of paper of love. But it's so good.

[Kathy]

It's the most delicious. And it's a recipe from Alabama.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

She shreds the apples. They're so tiny, the way she slices them. And you could have no teeth and be able to eat this pie sure, too. You could take your dentures out if you only eat this Fight. No, it's so delicious.

[Suzanne]

But the nice thing about the grated apple is that every piece of the apple has, like, the cinnamon and sugar, like, goo all over it instead of it just being, like, a clump of a soggy apple.

[Corey]

It's all shredded. Like, all the app. Okay.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Do you use a box grater, or how do you shred the apple?

[Suzanne]

I usually use a box grater or, like, we have, like, a mandolin thing, too, that, like, thinset.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Places it really thin.

[Kathy]

Nice. Sue's apple pie. I wish we could just. Just wiggle my nose and put. Put a bite in your mouth right now. It's really so yummy.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Save the neck for me, Clark. I want a bite of that.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Corey, what do you make?

[Corey]

I'm not the. Yeah, exactly. Anything in a bag. No, I. I do love cooking. My role on Thanksgiving is what. Whatever, like, needs, you know, whoever needs help. That's what I'm doing. Special projects. Yeah, exactly.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Corey]

I don't know. That's always me, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I. I remember. This is, like, when I was in my early 20s, but I lived on Chris Cannon, who had recently just passed away. Rip. I love him to death. He was a congressman for Utah for a long time for, like, 14 years. And I spent Thanksgiving with them. And he was like. He asked me. He's like, can you carve a turkey? Carve the turkey. And I was like, I can learn. And he looked at me, and the way he looked at me, he's like, I love that attitude. So I was like, what? From now on, I'm doing what anyone asks.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So, yeah, that's just kind of the role I take on whatever needs to be. Peeling potatoes. Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Watching kids, whatever special projects.

[Kathy]

Corey. Exactly. That's so good.

[Corey]

Okay, so, okay, should we get into the. Should we get into the questions? All mc everything you guys answer?

[Suzanne]

Yeah, let's do it. Thank you for writing questions.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

These are your questions. You guys have written in. And we have gone through and tried to decide what would be the common good for everybody listening to know these answers. And so today we're actually answering eight questions of yours.

[Corey]

So some of. Some of the questions have, like, multiples in them. So, yeah, we'll try to kind of dissect that. Dissect that as best as possible. So the first one is from Rowan Grebek. They wrote in saying, how do you know when too much paint is too much of a good thing? Can I color wash every room? I have a three bed, two bath house with mudroom and combined great room slash kitchen. How many different colors should you have in a home? I'm thinking five.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. Honestly, Rowan, your house sounds a lot like mine as far as the amount of bedrooms, bathroom. That's like what we're dealing with too. And I think in like for most of our design projects and everything, unless it's like a contained room, like, if.

[Kathy]

If you have, like it has a.

[Suzanne]

Door and has a door and has casing for a paint to terminate, if it doesn't have those things, then it's likely going to be all a general color, a paint color that's. That's typically a neutral. Just because, like, unless you're really fun, go for it. Like, if you want to paint your common area something really fun and your ceilings aren't crazy tall, do it. Like, I think that'd be fun. But tell them.

[Kathy]

Tell. Tell Rowan what your crazy general color is. Sue.

[Suzanne]

Well, steam.

[Kathy]

Say it again, Sue.

[Suzanne]

Ben. More steam. It's very. It's very art gallery.

[Kathy]

It's white.

[Suzanne]

Yes, it is white.

[Kathy]

Yes, it is white.

[Suzanne]

My floors are my baseboards, my walls, my ceiling is all the same color. But that's because I just want something when people come in to just like.

[Kathy]

Sue has so much art, a lot of art.

[Suzanne]

And so I needed it to just be a neutral color and gallery. Honestly, like, 99.9% of the time, these general spaces are going to be in neutral, because then when we go into these pockets that are case the bedrooms, the bathrooms, we can have fun and we can create a total mood.

[Kathy]

And so let's quickly define a general space for Rowan.

[Suzanne]

Okay. General space is like your entry. You go into that living room. Great room slash kitchen.

[Kathy]

And hallways.

[Suzanne]

Hallways that's all general down your stairwell. If you have a stairwell or up a stairwell, there's not really terminations usually that like pull those spaces, separate, everything bleeds into each other. And that usually bleeds into an upper hallway or a basement hallway. So therefore all the common, like public.

[Kathy]

Areas that don't have doors, that don't.

[Suzanne]

Have doors are all the same color. So then that'll. So that's one color. Right. And you'll probably like most people in clients, we have like a two tone. We'll have like your baseboard and your case. That's color or white. And then we'll have like a neutral color for the walls. Then when you get into your bedrooms, for sure you could do light color drenches in your bedrooms based off of the person that's.

[Kathy]

And your bathrooms and your bathrooms in there.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kathy]

And that's when you're gonna go hog wild. So as far as he's thinking five, he has a three bedroom home and a two bath house. So yeah, that's your five colors and then the general color.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

So I think, yeah, they nailed it.

[Suzanne]

Yep. And I think just like with the color, when you're asking, is it too much of a good thing? I think so long as they like kind of like transition and look good together and they reflect who you are and what you love. And usually those decisions of the paint color are based off of other things in the room that you've also purchased that you're also drawn to. So it should have some type of flow, like given those attributes. But yeah, so yeah, I think you're spot on. But yeah, general color.

[Kathy]

Well, I should say six, because the sixth is your general color. And then your five unique colors that are actually colors and not just your neutral, those are going to be in the rooms where you can shut a door that you're going to be able to encase that entire room in this color environment that goes with the different personalities for the characters that live in the rooms or the bathrooms or whatnot.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, I think it's really fun.

[Kathy]

Yeah. There could be a case for if you wanted to do the ensuite in the primary bedroom the same color. You could, but even then you did not. In yours you did two different shades of green, right?

[Suzanne]

No, I did reticence. I just like to see the green in my Bedroom. And then I did the green.

[Kathy]

In my bathroom, you have a green bed. That's. That's where the green comes from, where it pulls. So pretty.

[Suzanne]

So. Yeah.

[Corey]

So this is like a 1A from Rowan. But will not having consistent doors or trim color take away cohesion?

[Kathy]

Yes, I would do consistent doors and trim from the general side.

[Corey]

So from the hallway, from the room it's in.

[Kathy]

Yeah. No. Yes. So if you're in. If you're in the hallway looking at all of these doors that go into the various bedrooms, those are all the same color.

[Corey]

But if you go inside the bedroom, the trim in the case, that's where.

[Kathy]

You could change it. So you would have the interior of the door. We do that often in powder baths. Did you do, did you change your door color on the inside of your room? I never have on my own house.

[Suzanne]

No. But I do think, like, if I do do my doors.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Like, I'm gonna do them all in the same color. That gets along with all my colors for the consistency.

[Kathy]

So you're gonna keep your door the same color throughout. You're not gonna change the color for the interior of the child's room?

[Suzanne]

I don't think so. I think for like, clients, like, I'm, I'm doing a one off thing. Okay. But like, for clients, like, often we will, like, the casing color will do the same color as the door.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Suzanne]

On the interior of that room. And I think that's a general rule that I think is really safe for you to go with and really fun because then you're in that environment and it's all going to be speaking to each other. Okay. Because it might look weird if you're like, you have a white door on the outside on the hallway side that's the same color as your trim out there. But then you have a white door on the inside of that room. Not very inspiring. And it's like, oh, it's primed, it's not painted yet. So I do think that you should take it. The environment of the, of the room it's in.

[Corey]

Cool. Uh, the next question is from Ashley Wood. She asks, could you address styling a dining room table, not kitchen, when not in use.

[Suzanne]

Okay.

[Kathy]

Yes.

[Suzanne]

Like a formal dining.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Okay.

[Kathy]

We have here Angie Harrington, house of Harrington, her formal dining. We did a collection of these beautiful resin vases, all different silhouettes, same construction, and they just look beautiful, even empty, because they're a color. Right. And then if you're entertaining, you can throw water in them and then throw fresh stems in. But the silhouettes are like different gourd shapes that are prismatic, and they're in resin, and they just look like a collector. They look really amazing. And she has a long dining table, so these kind of stretch down the length of it, which looks really great. I love using multiples of the same object on my own kitchen table. I have two of our Valencia bowls. They're just marble bowls. I have the large and the medium, and they're just open vessels. It feels kind of contemporary and edited. But I could throw food in the bowls or I could throw candy in there for Halloween. Or fruit. Yes, totally. During a photo shoot, I could put something in there. Or if it feels like there's a lot going on the island. These two marble bowls just feel almost statuary and very simple and I think are a really great answer for a round table. Like our Luke around. I think two Valencia bowls. Great. Or you could add, like, a pair of candlesticks with it. That's great. I like multiples of the same object in different sizes, is my very best advice for styling. And then you could add life to it if you need it, or. No. It looks good naked.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. The rhythm is nice for the eye to see the same thing more than once. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah. It's not too tricky. I. I think as I've gotten older in my styling, I've loved a really good edit. I think a good editor is really important on any project because people are going to live here, and they need to be able to keep it up, and it can't be so complicated. And I'll oftentimes see a lot of styling where there's, like, a stack of books and then object on top of every stack, and it's just like, oh, it's just too much stuff.

[Suzanne]

You're like, you're never realistically going to be opening a book, obviously. Could you just put everything on top of it?

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Thirsty. It looks forced.

[Kathy]

It looks like piles of stuff. And so you just need to. I pull stuff back. And honestly, in organic, like fresh flowers or stems or branches off of a tree, those organic lines do a lot for you. They're living. It looks beautiful. It's really graceful and classy, and it comes from the yard, and so that will do a lot of work for you. So I'd say sometimes you might just need to simplify. I think that's one of the biggest things I see in styling, is, like, take stuff away.

[Suzanne]

Yep.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. I love that answer. Mic drop? Nothing.

[Kathy]

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[Corey]

The next one comes from Ashley as well. She asks how would you treat windows that face the neighbor's mechanical room and hot tub? Having sunlight and symmetry is important to me and I'd like to keep the windows open during the day.

[Kathy]

Shears Ashley Wood we love a drapery shear that's with fabric that's sort of open weave where you can kind of see what's going on outside. It lets a lot of light in, but it's not as sheer as, let's say, like a wedding veil. It's got more substance to it than that, but the light can stream in, but it sort of disguises what's happening outside. Also, nobody could just see in your house. Like, I have shears on my living room, and I can pull them shut. I still have all the natural light. But you have the folds and the bends of the drapery that also disguise what's happening out there. So I think it's a perfect answer for her because she says she loves having the sunlight and the symmetry, but she has all of this stuff she has to look at out there, so she's not going to be able to see it or notice it or be able to focus on it, because she'll have this wall of beautiful drapery shears that she has closed and the drape loosely closed. And then the drapery folds can sort of disguise what's happening. Cool. That's my answer.

[Corey]

Great solution.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

[Corey]

The next question is from Carly Blake. She asks, how do you agree on decor with your spouse? Oh, man. Can you share strategies, slash tips on how to approach.

[Kathy]

Well, yes, we do this for every client. Yeah, you're normal.

[Suzanne]

I know. I think the thing is, like, figuring out when we're working with usually two decision makers, right. There's usually a spouse or significant other to the person that we're talking to more of. Right. The wife or the husband. The thing that, like, I think is really critical for a project to go well is that they both gather images of what they are drawn to. So we do what we call as a North Star. So, Carly, I want you to do a North Star for you and your husband as you're trying to navigate your styles and figure out what is. How are we going to blend all these together? Because I. I believe there's. There's going to be more common denominators than you think, because once you look at a picture, pictures of rooms, if you were to put images that you like in front of your husband, he might be like, oh, I don't like that. But then when you really ask him, like, dissect what you don't like, and he can be like, I just don't like that sofa. I don't like the color. And then you're like, okay, that's good to know. But do you like. Do you like the wall color? He's like, well, yeah, how about this? Yeah, I love that. You know, so there might be key things that you know to avoid, like a skirted sofa or the color purple or just things like that. But when you start to actually look at images together, I think you're going to find more commonalities than you think you have.

[Corey]

Would you, in your guys experience, like, do you think the husbands. Or there's one person in the cup, like the couple that typically like more minimalistic styling. And then there's one that maybe.

[Kathy]

Husband is always contemporary.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

He always likes clean. He'd be happiest if there was no accessories in a room. He loves an edit. His side of the vanity, nothing on it.

[Corey]

What would you see how.

[Kathy]

Not even a toothbrush and a cup. It's in the drawer. There's no reason to have anything on the surface. That's when he's happiest.

[Corey]

Okay.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Corey]

How do you. How do you balance that?

[Kathy]

It's a great question. You. I. I think I do feel like the picture is worth a thousand words. He's going to bring images that make him happy, and then you're just going to keep looking for things in common. And then we know we're going to keep the styling really simple in those common spaces where he's going to be. He's not going to care about most of it. Generally.

[Suzanne]

Generally, yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah. He's going to care a lot about his office or there's gonna be like his workout area or whatever his spaces are. We're gonna really cater to her. Him. And she's gonna be okay with it because she knows that she's about to get her closet or she's about to get the kitchen of her dreams and the pantry she's always dreamt of, which is behind the door where she can have a party and still have the front kitchen look edited or. There's so many ways of giving them both what they want. Because the house has multiple rooms. You're not just gonna fight over one room.

[Corey]

Yeah. You know, compromise.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

And I will say, after working with so many couples for so many years, majority of the time they want each other to be happy, you know, so even if you feel like this is not gonna. You're like, oh, gosh, we're gonna start a home project. And, like, no one's gonna win because he's so powerful and I'm so powerful. Like, ultimately, like, you have the discussion like, everybody wants to win here. Everyone gets to live here. So therefore, what are you willing to give in on you know, and you want the other person to be happy. And I know that Louis XVI Bakken taper leg makes you so happy. So that' have some classical pieces in it. And I think as you do that it's going to be easier for the other person to do that as well. Do you know? And you're just. It's a give and take and you want the other person. And if they know that, that you want them to be happy, they're going to like, reciprocate that and they're going to show that same amount of grace toward what you are passionate about. And they're going to. They should want you to be around things that you love too. And that's honestly, you get a beautiful combination. When you do combine simplicity with some layers. You do. It's beautiful.

[Kathy]

Here's where it's really complicated. I shouldn't get into this because it's going to make for a longer, harder podcast. Well, this is just real life. And so I just want to address this.

[Corey]

Not the perfect easy compromise.

[Kathy]

No. Everything you're saying is exactly right. But you know why it's right, sue? Is because you're the media, because you're the cruise director.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. That's true.

[Kathy]

Carly Blake, who's asking you this question, might not have a designer who works with couples all day long to help them achieve their dream. And we do it easily because it's what we do. And we know that this is going to be the case with 100% of jobs. Right. Unless it's a second home. And then it's so much easier because they're like, we're just going there for a good time. Whatever she wants or he wants or whoever wants to put the most time into it. Right. Second homes are so easy. But if you're going at this alone.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

And you've never built a house before.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Mediating is going to be hard because you don't do it for a living and you don't have a designer.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Designers out there listening, you know that this is 50% of your job is emotional and you're trying to make both of them feel like winners. Right. So I just had to put myself in Carly Blake's shoes for a minute. Assuming that she is like most of us out there that don't get afforded designer in life, but loves design, is passionate about it, and her husband probably doesn't care about design as much as she does. And she's like, how am I going to win? You know?

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

And to that, Carly, I want to go Back to Sue's answer of the North Star. Because a picture is worth a thousand words and you both have different vocabularies, it becomes the Tower of Babel because he's saying he likes this one thing that you define as something else, and words are never going to solve for it. And so you have to use pictures to be able to show what you both like. And that's where you're going to have the crossover of saying, thank goodness we both like neutral walls. Honey, I know you love black hinges and hardware and black faucets, but here's what all the data is showing, that that's been out of style for two years. So we wouldn't want to invest in that. Right. That'd be a waste of money, and you hate wasting money. And so you're gonna just show. I think polished nickel would be a really good common ground that we know is always going to be in style. But I'm gonna still go with a simpler silhouette because I know you like contemporary, so you're going to win that one or whatever. I don't know. You're just going to find ways with pictures to help show common denominators so you guys can come together, but also.

[Corey]

To kind of, like, build a case. I like where you're. Because you're appealing to what the spouse is probably kind of how they're approaching it. Like, hey, like, let's. Let's buy one. Yeah, let's just buy this one time.

[Kathy]

I mean, Corey, I don't know. You built. Most recently amongst the three of us at this table, you love design. Did you have differing opinions with your spouse when it came to building, or were you guys the same? Or how did you help navigate?

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah, no, we were. Fortunately, we both love a lot of the same things, and, like, Mari really trusts me as I do her. So, yeah, that unfortunately, like, is really easy. Was easy for us. But, yeah, I think the good approach on anything, you know, when there is a disagreement between a husband and wife, is just trying to see the other person's side. And.

[Kathy]

Yeah, and by seeing the other person's side, we mean literally seeing it through images. And lucky for us, today we have Pinterest. Bad news for you, Carly, is men like House. And I don't understand it at all, but hopefully you can get him to use Pinterest and he can start or however he wants to. Maybe he saves images on Instagram or. I don't know how you'll be able to show, you know, the images that he likes or however he Wants to find them but bring them together on the same. In the same place.

[Corey]

I would say this. On the disagreements that Mari and I did have, it came to education. So, hey, just to let you know, like, I used to feel that same exact way. But then since I've been on the podcast for like three or four years, you know, at that time, like, this is what I have learned from there. Listen to these episodes. And then. That the education would help change her mind.

[Kathy]

Yeah. You know, I think that is true of almost every argument. It's like the more you know. Right. Then you can go, oh, fascinating. That just opened up my mindset. Right.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Going into this election too. I feel that way about so many arguments. Is like the more educated we get about certain things, the more our minds are like, that's fascinating. We're actually more the same than we are different.

[Corey]

Absolutely.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

100 because true.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

If even like, I'm wondering like what he likes paint color wise. If he's just like, no, I just want to all neutral. If you tell him that in the bedroom, we will not sleep as well in a light room as we would in a dark room, they'll be like, I love sleep then. Yeah, that's for sure. That's how the hill I'm dying on. You know, figure out the hill that you're going to die on. Know the hill that he wants to die on. And then you just like you skirt around it.

[Kathy]

Love.

[Corey]

Yeah. So you absolutely have to make a decision.

[Kathy]

So great.

[Corey]

That's amazing.

[Suzanne]

That's great.

[Corey]

Man. That could have. That could have.

[Kathy]

Good luck. Carly Blake.

[Suzanne]

It's gonna be okay.

[Kathy]

Keep us posted and then tune in.

[Corey]

Mr. Blake, how can we help?

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Okay. The next question is from Kathleen Pinkney. She asked there is lots of guidance online about south north facing homes, but not about east or west facing spaces. My instinct is to paint dark spaces a light color, but I've heard that is wrong question mark.

[Kathy]

I don't know why that would be wrong.

[Suzanne]

I don't either.

[Kathy]

I feel like. I feel like that would be ideal.

[Suzanne]

I do too.

[Kathy]

I also feel like though you'll want to consider when you're choosing paint color, you want to look at those, put those swatches on and look at them at different times of the day. But also consider when you're going to be using those spaces. For instance, in a dining room, you're most likely going to be using that space in the evening.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Now I know during the summer it's brighter than. Than in the winter and fall. But mostly we entertain the most in the winter and in the fall. So you're going to have a dark room. So consider. Consider what that paint looks like at night. Do you know what I mean? In your bedroom, you might mostly spend time in there in the morning making your bed and getting it all put together. And then during the day you're not in your bedroom as much, but in the evening, right at night time, maybe you're in there reading in bed or whatever. So really consider those paint colors at the times of day when you're going to be in there the most or what's going. They give you like the most restful feeling. I also think it matters like the amount of natural light you get in your house. Yeah, right.

[Corey]

Just because it is facing a certain direction. I mean, you could have a row of trees, you know, in your backyard, even though you have an east facing backyard. But you're going to get shade all of the time.

[Kathy]

And you're going to get.

[Suzanne]

Exactly.

[Kathy]

And you're also going to get a greencast in your room. Depending on what those trees are. If they're like columnar junipers and they're like really green, you got to consider what that paint color looks like. You know, with a lot of green coming in through the window, it's such a science. Also, I just sent Suze this DM this past week. It showed paint color swatch on the wall and then they held up above it a Kelvin and you can move the light from 2700 Kelvin to 3000. And that paint color went from brown to gray depending on the Kelvin. So your light bulbs are going to make a huge difference. And I'm just going to give you the Disneyland fast pass answer. Just do 2700 Kelvin light bulbs or 3000 at the very coolest kitchen. Do not under any circumstances go any cooler or all of your paint colors are going to look ashy and cold.

[Corey]

Cooler is a higher number. Like a bigger number, by the way.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And here's. And here's the thing. I'm just going to say something really general and unpopular, but I'm. It's in my experience, men for some reason always go for the highest number, thinking it's better and it's going to give more light. He's getting the best bang for his stuff.

[Corey]

Let's see it.

[Kathy]

He wants to see all of his money in Kelvin.

[Suzanne]

Like they're both the same price. But this had more numbers on it.

[Kathy]

This one has more. It's got to be better. Yeah, it's the opposite. Ladies and gentlemen, get yourself those light bulbs. Choose your paint with the right light bulbs in their sockets. That matters. Your natural light matters. Your landscaping matters. North, south, east, west, all of it matters. Times of day when you're in the room, consider that. But I just wanted to give a shout out to light bulbs because that was.

[Suzanne]

That was amazing.

[Kathy]

Really? Yeah. I wish we could put it on here. It was something I saw on Instagram, but.

[Suzanne]

I know. Yeah, we should just, like, keywords, soft white. Yeah, look for soft white. It's, like, warm. Yeah, exactly. It's warm.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Yep. Don't do daylight. Don't. They're not daylight. That is not the sunshine. It is alien. Don't do it.

[Corey]

Crazy.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. And yeah, honestly, to what you were saying, like, if you wanted that color, like, there's a tone or saturation of that color that you can have that you're going to be happy with, don't think because it's facing a certain direction that you can't have that color. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Okay.

[Corey]

The next few questions are. Are from Mary Olive.

[Kathy]

Mary Olive, Mary, thanks for listening and thanks for your questions.

[Corey]

She's tagged us and stuff on Instagram. She. She is awesome. You're the best, Mary. The first question is, how long has eased edge countertop been popular? Would I be crazy to do a full bullnose in a new kitchen right now?

[Kathy]

I love this question. Mary, you're a good time. Yeah. I just want to say that the. Our good friend sitting to my left, your right, sue hall, did not just one bull nose, but two of them on her new bathroom countertop. And it is lighting my fire. It is the coolest countertop I've ever seen. And it is also completely dialed into the personality that is Sue Hall. It will always be good for you.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

It is fantastic.

[Suzanne]

It's timeless for me.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Because so great.

[Suzanne]

So darn much, yes. And Mary, I think depending, and I know, Mary, because you're an artist, you do portraiture. And, yeah, you do great portraiture.

[Kathy]

Anyway, she likes a soft line. She likes a soft line, sketched edge.

[Suzanne]

And if it's something that, like, you can see yourself and your style, and you're like, you like eclecticism and you like something unordinary, then, yes, you should do that, because I imagine your other decisions will support that aesthetic. I think sometimes. I think sometimes if they're like, oh, that's in style, we'll do a bullnose. But everything else is neutral and boring and, like, doesn't support that aesthetic, then it is going to, like, look like A timestamp to when that came back into style versus something that's like, long lasting for the personality of the like who lives there.

[Kathy]

Yes. Great answer. Love, love, love. I'm glad that you know Mary Olive enough to answer that specifically for her. DMS me. This is fantastic. That's a great, great answer.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. But if you are being tempted by a trend, just make like, look at your other buying decisions and be like, will that be timeless for me or will like an eased edge? Because, like, majority of the time we have done an eased edge for as long as we've existed. As I'll see.

[Kathy]

It's the always right answer. It is. The polished nickel of it is like, what faucet finish should I do that I'll never regret? Polished nickel. What is the countertop edge that I will never regret? East edge. Now, if I'm an artist and I love portraiture and I'm a good time and I'm like, Sue hall knows you can't have yourself an east edge. You just wouldn't really. You wouldn't achieve satisfaction in your lifetime with an east edge because you're so fun and you're so artistic.

[Suzanne]

It would look like you bought that house and someone made that decision for you. You just like, inherited it.

[Kathy]

Yes. So no. No one's self. Know yourself. And this answer is specifically for Mary, but also for those of you wondering, like, who you are. Ask your friends. Consider these things, like what, what is going to go along with your aesthetic and what's going to just light your fire when you see it?

[Suzanne]

Yep.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

And then double it. You'll be happy you did it.

[Corey]

I was supposed to, like, put this in that question as I'm reading the notes further. But we needed to find eased edge and bullnose for the people who may not know.

[Kathy]

Tell them. Tell the people with your words. Suhal about the east edge.

[Suzanne]

Happy to. So an eased edge is basically like a straight edge, a flat edge. Like you have your countertop and then it turns at a 90. An eased edge just kind of like takes the edge off of it. The sharpness of the edge off the sharpness. So it's a. It's a light radius. But overall you're still having something that's pretty clean and tailored and pretty.

[Kathy]

You can still crack your head open on it, but it's not going to be as violent.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, those are great words. Okay. Okay. So that's an eased edge. A bullnose is like a full radius. So it is. It isn't like an elongated, like, og Softened OG or anything like. It is a full radius.

[Kathy]

I haven't seen an OG for a long time.

[Suzanne]

This is an elongated OG integral. Oh, gosh, I forgot go like. And an OG kind of makes like this. I'm drawing with my hand anyway. But we did, like, this kind of swoop and then a little bull nose at the edge so you could get really articulate with OGs, and, depending on the style of the home, merits the type of countertop edge it should have.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

So I think the ease edge is just a really easy answer for anybody living in, like, wanting a transitional edit. It's a transitional aesthetic. Right.

[Kathy]

Always works.

[Suzanne]

I think that the bull nose, I think, is an artistic thing to do. I think it's really fun. It's exaggerated, and it's usually bulbous. Right. You actually have a massing.

[Kathy]

You actually think about it. When you see it, you're like, oh, my gosh, what is. This is amazing. With an east edge, you don't think about it. You just. You see it, and you're like, oh, beautiful marble or stone or whatever. But you don't think about the ed. All of a sudden, this edge comes into play. It's the wingy eyeliner. It's the special edition. It really gives it flair. Yeah.

[Suzanne]

And it feels. I like it because it feels sculpted. I like the radius, and it feels like an artist had to carve that out, which they did, to make that shape instead of just, like, cutting it flat.

[Kathy]

So that, to give you guys an example, just for fun, in my house, I have eased edges everywhere. In Suzanne's house, she doesn't have just one bowl now. She has the double. The double hump bullnose in her bathroom. Suzanne's is way more fun than mine. Way more fun. No regrets.

[Suzanne]

No regrets.

[Kathy]

Yeah. It's so fun. My mom's kitchen has a double bullnose countertop in her kitchen, which means she doubled up the thickness on the edge, and they went with one big, huge radius when she built her house in the late 90s or early 2000s. And it's grand, it's beautiful, and it's really comfortable to hold onto, like the edge of something. It's just soft, and it's just. It's not as basic. It does come in and out of style. Right now, we're in a period where curves are like, king. King. Yeah. You want radiuses and hallways. You want curved sofas. We are doing beds with shapely silhouettes. So it's just this really beautiful, European inspired, sort of vintage inspired moment that we're in. And I think it's going to be a decade worth of people doing bullnose countertops again. That is the period that we are in. That is what is hashtag trending. But for sue hall, and I dare say, Mary Olive, they're always going to love their bullnose countertops. Those of you watching sue hall just did a sketch for you to define the countertops.

[Suzanne]

We're talking about eased edge, bullnose, double bullnose. You want to know something kind of cool that I've, like, been seeing, and we did this in our Manchester house that we have on our portfolio, is we did kind of a double bone nose on her island, but it's a thinner, so it's probably a 2 centimeters in that. My countertops in my bathroom were 3 centimeters, and they both double bone those at 3 centimeters, which is harder. So the. The 2 centimeters, which is a thinner thickness on your countertop. It's. It's really, really.

[Kathy]

It looks like a channel.

[Suzanne]

It's really cute. It's like little channels. Just feels so designed and edited and doesn't feel trendy at all. It feels absolutely appropriate for that.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

So anyway, and look on Pinterest, they're. There's so many cool edges and really pay attention to what's going on and, like, what countertop edge you are.

[Kathy]

It's also not going to affect the price of your countertops that much.

[Suzanne]

No. So they're going to ask you the question and then they're going to do it whatever way you want.

[Kathy]

It's like putting grout in your tile, like, so you might as well choose something other than the eased edge. Unless you are just kind of a transitional gal like me. I have to say that if I were doing it right now, I'd probably choose something.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, you would.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we were just all recovering from the bullnose era. I feel like when I built og. Yeah, yeah. What did you do? East edge at your house?

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I probably should have done bullnose, honestly. Like, that's.

[Kathy]

Listen to the regret, guys.

[Corey]

Exactly. Hear that regret.

[Kathy]

Get yourself an edge on your countertops. Good question, Mary.

[Suzanne]

Oh, great.

[Corey]

Okay, the next one from Mary, she asked, what about little marble ledges above stovetops? Would you recommend them? How deep do you recommend for those ledges? And how would you decorate them, Mary?

[Kathy]

I recommend it.

[Suzanne]

10 out of 10. I recommend it. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah. I did it. I love it. You're gonna want. As far as how deep, you're gonna want to be able to put all of your olive oils and all of the. Your salt and pepper shaker and, like, something, you know, all those beautiful things you're even gonna buy, like the fancy olive oil, because you want that beautiful bottle sitting up there. So it's whatever. Whatever you're going to use daily. I would measure the depth of that bottle and then go for it. I think mine is 4 inches. Yeah. And that's enough for me. I do, however, wish there was more depth between bottles for a little bit more layering. If I were to do it today, I'd ask for at least six on my legs.

[Suzanne]

Four to six, I think, is great.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah. You can get a little more styling play. Mine are just, like, aligned, like soldiers. Yeah. Because that's all I did depth for. I don't know why I'm so conservative, but anyway, go six. Go six, Mary. And do it. It's great.

[Suzanne]

Yeah. And I think. Do think when we're elevating these things in a kitchen, I love this idea. And we do it all the time, but depending on if you have a pot filler is the only time that that changes. So just like, understanding what's happening above your range for that shelf in a kitchen application anyway, just that will affect.

[Kathy]

Do you feel like you can either do the potful filler or the ledge? That's what I think, too, because it's.

[Suzanne]

At the same height that you need both of them. And like I will say this together.

[Kathy]

People that have the pot filler don't use it. They carry the pot over to the sink and they fill it and they forget they have it.

[Suzanne]

But some people like the jewelry of it. The sparkle of a pot filler.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Suzanne]

You know, sometimes they might use it, but really, sometimes, you know, I have.

[Kathy]

That situation going at my house. I did a hand shower in my shower jewelry. Never used it. I have body sprayers, a shower head, and a hand shower on the other wall thinking, oh, I might just want to run in and hurry and shave my legs without taking, like, a full shower. I've never done that. Yeah.

[Suzanne]

I will clean that corner of the shower.

[Kathy]

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

[Suzanne]

So most people do it for cleaning and stuff.

[Kathy]

That's right.

[Suzanne]

But I do. Back to Mary's question about that little ledge. I did that in my bathroom, too.

[Kathy]

You did.

[Suzanne]

And it's just. It's not, like, as deep as, like, what you would do in a kitchen, but I love the look of it.

[Kathy]

What, did you put your shampoos on it?

[Suzanne]

Oh, this is just like, on my vanity. So you have like a backsplash that I went a little bit taller than the standard 4 inches and then I just did like this like little bull nose.

[Kathy]

Why do you not know what you're talking about?

[Suzanne]

Oh, it's just kind of like a cap liner detail. Oh, I'm like, I can just as.

[Kathy]

A, just as like a liner. Do you put stuff on it or is it not deep enough?

[Suzanne]

It's not terribly deep, but like, I don't know. I've put like earrings and stuff up there before and I just think it's really cute.

[Kathy]

Cute. Are you clever. We'll flash a picture of your vanity up here for those of you watching. Cheers, love.

[Suzanne]

Okay, great question.

[Corey]

The last question again from Mary. She's the best chef. Is mixing a plain white quartz countertop with a classic marble backsplash a dumb idea?

[Suzanne]

You're better than that, Mary. Yes.

[Corey]

Love it. Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

[Suzanne]

I'm like, plain white counter.

[Kathy]

That's a glorious.

[Suzanne]

For anybody.

[Kathy]

Don't do that.

[Suzanne]

Like you want some movement.

[Kathy]

That's not for anybody listening on the podcast.

[Suzanne]

And I know that you're probably thinking, oh, it's still white. So maybe it's. If it's a quartz or something, then like, it'll be like more long wearing or it can spill on it instead of doing a marble. But it just looks like a accent wall for your kitchen countertops.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Oh, gosh.

[Corey]

If it were me, I would take the money, invest it on the backsplash and just put that into the countertops and do something other than quartz.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Tile or something.

[Corey]

Yeah. And then. And then do a tile backsplash.

[Suzanne]

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you deserve a real surface on your countertops.

[Corey]

Yeah, agreed.

[Suzanne]

Yeah.

[Corey]

That was it, guys.

[Suzanne]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kathy]

Thank you for writing in. We're so grateful for you and our listeners. You make our show possible. We do it for you. If you guys have any topic ideas, please feel free to email us at Dear Alice at Alice Lane home dot com. Again, that's Dear Alice Alice Lane home dot com. This is really helpful for us because it gives us podcast ideas. It helps us know what you guys need to know about. We feel like we've recorded all the podcasts under the sun about interior design and then you write in and we're like, we should talk about interior doors. We should talk about. Yeah. So it's super helpful. Also, if you could leave us a five star review that helps us find more listeners just like you guys. It helps our show grow and it just, it supports us in a huge way. So thank you. We do. We read them at the beginning of each of our podcast meetings before we sit down to write the episodes. And it just kind of puts gas in our tank. So it helps us know that you're out there.

[Corey]

Exactly.

[Kathy]

It's proof of life. Yeah, we love it. Also, I wanted to let you know, I don't know if you guys are listening to this on Wednesday when it's coming out, or Thursday when it normally comes out, but Black Friday starts this Friday, so.

[Suzanne]

Such urgency.

[Kathy]

Yes. It's going to go Friday the 29th through December 2nd. Black Friday's like a week late.

[Corey]

Black Friday Cyber Monday. Yeah. It's like. Yeah, it bleeds into December.

[Kathy]

Yes. So if you guys want to shop online, this is our deepest disc discount of the whole year. It's up to 30 off the entire Black Friday collection. There's some really fun little things that are going to be going on. You're definitely going to want to shop it. I would give you a discount code, but this is higher than the discount code. So start your engines. It's starting tomorrow after Thanksgiving. Once you're all cleaned up, hit Dear Alice for Black Friday or Alice Lane for Black Friday. That's Alice Lane Home.

[Suzanne]

Com.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Have a good time. I'm so excited for you. I love Black Friday.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Hey, thanks for listening. If you like our show, please leave a five star rating.