Scale | Rugs, Furniture, and Lamps

Summary

Dear Alice | Interior Design

Episode: Scale | Rugs, Furniture, and Lamps
Release Date: April 3, 2025
Hosts: Jessica Bennett (Jess), Suzanne Hall (Suzanne), Corey (Co-host), and Alice (Alice)

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Introduction to Scale in Interior Design

In this insightful episode of Dear Alice, hosts Jessica Bennett, Suzanne Hall, Corey, and Alice delve into the intricate concept of scale within interior design. Sparked by a thoughtful question from listener Julia Sader, the conversation centers around understanding scale, its application, and the fundamental rules that can guide homeowners and design enthusiasts in creating harmonious living spaces.

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Understanding Scale: Definitions and Importance

Alice begins by defining scale as:

"Scale, the relative size and proportion of objects, furniture, and elements within a space. It is concerned with how these elements relate to one another and to the overall dimensions of a room."
(00:35)

She emphasizes that achieving the right scale is pivotal to making a room feel "homey" and comfortable. When scale is correctly implemented, it often goes unnoticed because it seamlessly blends into the overall design, creating an environment that feels just right.

Corey adds to the definition by highlighting the human aspect:

"Scale is also really considered off of human proportion. It's based on your height... your eyeline is sitting down around 5ft 5, 2, 5, 4, depending on how high you are. That is where your eyes want to look at this."
(20:10)

This human-centric approach ensures that spaces are not only aesthetically pleasing but also comfortable and functional.

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Common Scale Pet Peeves

The hosts share their personal frustrations with common scale mistakes in interior design:

• Alice's Tile Scale Issue:

  "When they use a really small liner and just the wrong scale of tile for that space... they could have saved that if they just made that border six inches bigger."
  (01:22)

• Jess and Corey's Rug Size Concerns:
  Jess recalls her initial inability to recognize correct rug sizes until she saw professional examples:

  "Before I started working for Alice Lane, like, the 4x6 rug in front of a sofa... it always felt off to me."
  (03:29)

  Corey concurs:

  "Wrong size rug is just really cheating the potential of any space."
  (04:05)

These pet peeves underline the importance of considering scale to avoid diminishing the functionality and aesthetic of a space.

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Practical Guidelines for Rugs

The discussion transitions into actionable advice on selecting the right rug sizes:

• Starting with the Rug:
  Alice mentions that they begin design projects by determining the rug size, typically using larger dimensions like 12x15 feet to ensure that all major furniture pieces, such as sectionals and chairs, are adequately anchored on the rug:

  "The rug's job, scale-wise, in that room is to create interior walls to make that space feel homey... So go larger, go as large as you can with the rug."
  (15:13)

• Custom and Designer Rugs:
  For unique spaces, custom rugs or specific styles like needlepoint carpets can be tailored to fit perfectly:

  "You can have it cut to fit your room exactly... especially if you have a square room."
  (16:09)

• Recommendations:
  Jess advises opting for larger rugs than what big-box stores typically offer, ensuring that all furniture sits gracefully on the rug, enhancing the room's cohesiveness.

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Selecting the Right Furniture

Corey and Jess discuss the significance of choosing appropriately scaled furniture to complement the rug and overall room dimensions:

• Sofa and Sectional Sizes:
  Corey shares insights from their product development experience:

  "We make cocktail tables that are large, like 48-inch round or 54 by 54 square... to fit perfectly with big sectionals."
  (26:29)

• End Tables and Their Proportion:
  Alice emphasizes the need for end tables to match the depth and height of sofas:

  "If you have a 48-inch deep sectional, the end tables should be around 36 inches deep."
  (18:00)

• Avoiding Common Mistakes:
  When furniture pieces are too small, functionality decreases:

  "If the end table is too small, you end up with limited space for lamps, books, or drinks... which diminishes the room's utility."
  (24:20)

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Lamps and Lighting: Striking the Right Balance

Properly scaled lamps are crucial for both aesthetics and functionality:

• Height Guidelines:
  Corey recommends lamps to be around 30 inches tall, providing a balanced look without overpowering or shrinking the furniture:

  "A lamp that's 30 inches tall looks really awesome on your side tables."
  (20:26)

• Design Tips:
  Ensuring that lamps complement both the height of furniture and the room's ceiling height can elevate the space's overall feel:

  "You don’t want to see the light bulb lit up... if the lamp is too small or too big."
  (21:37)

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Real-World Applications and Examples

The hosts share examples from their own projects and experiences:

• Corey's Family Room Transformation:
  Before and after comparisons illustrate the impact of correct scaling, particularly in choosing larger side tables that enhance functionality and aesthetics:

  "Our favorite cocktail table is 54 by 54 square... it works perfectly with our big sectional."
  (26:29)

• Industry Insights:
  Corey discusses how their designs are informed by 17 years of experience, ensuring that all pieces are proportioned correctly to meet customers' needs:

  "All of our furniture is based off of scale... we know what works and what sells because it's the right size."
  (27:04)

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Advice for Shoppers and Designers

To help listeners apply these insights, the hosts offer practical tips:

• Measure Before Buying:
  Always check the dimensions of furniture and rugs, especially when shopping online where scale can be misleading.

• Use Tools and Resources:
  Corey suggests utilizing tools like tape measures or collaborating with design professionals to visualize how pieces will fit:

  "You have to have a little tape measure in your purse because you cannot tell the scale of something if you're out shopping."
  (21:37)

• Consult Professionals:
  Working with home furnishing designers can provide personalized guidance to ensure all elements are harmoniously scaled.

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Conclusion: The Essence of Scale in Design

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reinforce that mastering scale is fundamental to creating spaces that are both beautiful and functional. By paying attention to the relative sizes of rugs, furniture, and lamps, and ensuring they align with human proportions and room dimensions, one can transform any space into a cohesive and inviting home.

Corey closes with a call to action, encouraging listeners to experiment with scale in their own homes and seek professional advice when needed:

"Scale is one of those things that is really, really fun to play around with. Once you get it right, it's going to feel really, really good."
(32:12)

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Key Takeaways

• Scale is crucial for creating harmonious and functional living spaces.
• Common mistakes, such as using too small rugs or mismatched furniture sizes, can disrupt the room's balance.
• Practical guidelines include starting design with appropriately sized rugs, selecting furniture that complements the room's dimensions, and ensuring lamps are proportionate to other elements.
• Professional insight and measurement are invaluable tools in achieving the right scale.
• Personal comfort and functionality should always guide design choices to ensure spaces are both beautiful and livable.

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Notable Quotes

• Alice (00:35):
  "Scale, the relative size and proportion of objects, furniture, and elements within a space. It is concerned with how these elements relate to one another and to the overall dimensions of a room."

• Jess (03:29):
  "Before I started working for Alice Lane, like, the 4x6 rug in front of a sofa... it always felt off to me."

• Corey (20:26):
  "A lamp that's 30 inches tall looks really awesome on your side tables."

• Corey (27:04):
  "All of our furniture is based off of scale... we know what works and what sells because it's the right size."

---

This episode of Dear Alice serves as an essential guide for anyone looking to refine their interior design skills, offering both theoretical knowledge and practical advice to master the art of scale in their living spaces.

Transcript

[Alice]

Foreign. Welcome to Dear Alice, A lifestyle approach to interior design.

[Corey]

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Dear Alice. Today we're going to be talking about scale. We had a great question that came in and we were like, we. We probably need to talk about scale. Yeah.

[Jess]

I don't even know if we've done an episode like, solely on scale, which is crazy, but I don't think so.

[Corey]

Yeah, we talk a lot about it. I know we did an episode about, like, what should the dimensions be? Like, what are the numbers in interior design? Where we really broke it down and talked a lot about the different. Like, the height of the chandelier off the table should be X. This is like a lot of those dimensions that we really off of. But scale in general would have been a good jumping off point before we even started there. So. Yeah. So we thank you to Julia Sader for your awesome question. That is what has brought us to today's topic.

[Jess]

Exactly.

[Corey]

Thank you.

[Jess]

Before we get into that, though, I wanted to know from you guys, what is your biggest pet peeve or, like, cringe when. Yeah, when it comes to scale and interiors.

[Alice]

Oh, so many. Okay. I will say, just because we're building a lot of homes right now, and so I'm like, always, like, looking at other homes and. And my biggest pet peeve, I will say, is when they get the tile scale wrong for a room and they don't use a border when they're supposed to use a border.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Alice]

So when you see a big, large room or entry or something, and they've used like a really small liner and just the wrong scale of tile for that space. Because I think in a big space, you want to try and make it feel intimate. In a small space, you're trying to grow it. You're trying to do the opposite of whatever the footprint you've been given just so that the human feels good in that space, which is a lot of what scale is. It's just like feeling right in a space. Oftentimes people don't even notice scale when it's done right, because it's done right. But I would say tile, like, the border thing, like, gets under my skin. I'm like, oh, gosh, they could have saved that if they just made that border six inches bigger. So really pay attention to that. And a lot of times we're on cad and so we're laying it out and saying, okay, should this be an 18 by 18? Should it be. Actually, this is smaller space. Should I take that 12 by 12 and cut it into 6 by 6? Because then we'll get more into the space and you won't be able to count the tiles across. But when you just see a small hallway and there's just two tiles sitting next to each other, like on the diagonal, I'm like, oh, gosh, that could have been better, you know, or just like more interesting. More. More mystique. When you can get the scale right other than counting tiles. I hate it. I hate it when it's done wrong. Yeah, yeah, that's top of mind. But how about you, boy?

[Corey]

I know. There's so many. Right. There's so many things.

[Alice]

Party fouls. Scale fouls.

[Jess]

Yeah, I. Yeah, I would say most people probably don't even recognize them. I think they see this. Like, something is off. Like for me, I. Before I started working for Alice Lane, like, it was always like the 4x6 rug in front of a sofa. And it always was like, that doesn't.

[Corey]

Seem the wrong size rug.

[Jess]

Like, it doesn't. It felt off to me and I couldn't put my finger on it until like I saw it done right. I'm like, that makes sense.

[Corey]

You know what, Corey? That's probably number one on the list for. For me as well is the wrong size rug is just really cheating the potential of any space. Yeah.

[Jess]

Yep.

[Corey]

I would rather them just have their sofa sit on a wall to wall carpeted room than to have a too small rug in the room.

[Jess]

I totally agree.

[Corey]

And just doing the flying carpet, just sitting there in the middle of the room, no furniture actually anchored on it.

[Jess]

It feels like. Yeah, it feels like it got there by mistake. You know what I mean? Not intentional. So that was mine. Sorry to speak.

[Corey]

Good point. No, I agree. I am piggybacking on yours for sure. Yeah.

[Jess]

Okay, so getting into the episode, like we mentioned earlier, this is. This episode came from a question that Julia Seder sent us. And she asked what scale is, how scale applies, and basic rules we can follow. Are there maybe some formulas one could follow as some examples? How do you know if a lamp is too big or small for a furniture piece or a table? How high should your lamp be on a side or accent table in comparison to your couch? How do you know when a piece of furniture is too big or small in comparison to everything else in the room?

[Corey]

Julie, these are such great questions. Yeah. And we were like, this is going to take a full episode to really answer these questions and also help illustrate for you. And I think there's a lot of takeaways for folks, but one really quick cheat code I wanted to Give everybody listening is if you have questions about scale and you don't have tools and you don't do design for a living.

[Jess]

Tools like CAD or something to put it in.

[Corey]

Exactly. Yeah. One of the easiest things you can do is you could work with one of our free home furnishing designers because they are working in CAD. They have all of the Alice Lane Rolodex, all 200 vendors offerings, plus all the furniture we're manufacturing and can easily take your room, put it in cad, get the sofa that is the right scale, the right size end tables, and just work on your room. It doesn't mean that you necessarily need to buy everything in one fell swoop, but you can continue to work with them to get the right size things. So if you do need help, just know that that's a free resource for you. You definitely have to be in the market for furniture because they, they don't just work for free and do your own furniture in it. You have to be wanting to buy something and that's how, that's how the service works. But if you, you can reach out on our [e-mail], visit the Design Services tab and select the home furnishing design button and we can really show you from an aerial point of view what is going to fit perfect. So I thought I'd quickly share that. That cheat code. Yeah, yeah. But back to Julie's question, Julia's questions. I think when we're talking about scale and sue, you have a really good definition of scale. So maybe we define scale first.

[Alice]

Let's define scale. Okay, got it. Scale, the relative size and proportion of objects, furniture and elements within a space. It is concerned with how these elements relate to one another and to the overall dimensions of a room. I think, like, in school we learn about, like, certain design principles and things that, like, people have been abiding by since the book was written. Right. And scale is one of those design principles that like, when. And as I've been like, looking at, like studying for this podcast and like looking at images of like, why is the scale correct in here? What makes us different? What makes this good? What makes us not good? There is a feeling when you look at a room and if it feels good, it's likely that the scale is the massive piece of that. And you can't necessarily know, like, oh, that that end table is the perfect scale for that room. It just feels right when you can get the scale right. If it doesn't look good and you keep walking into your room. Julia. Right. And something's off, the scale's wrong. And I will. I will say that, like, given the. I had to do a quick little room design from just, like, easy to buy vendors like that you can purchase online for a neighbor. It was so frustrating, you guys. What is available is frustrating because the scale is off and most people don't know. They don't know that. And so even when I'm showing, you know, my neighbor, just like, this is the best I could find of for nightstands for your daughter's room. And it's still smaller than I would like to go. And they're like, oh, that's even seems too big. And I'm like, oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Scale is really, really hard. I just wanted to say that. And it's hard to find it in just like the everyday, like, box stores that, like, people have at their fingertips or wafer or whatever. It is a real, real lesson. And so we're hopefully going to like, tell you what things usually go wrong with scale and what things go like how you can make it go right with some of these rules today.

[Corey]

And in an online furniture, you can get a really affordable price point if you make a really small item. Because you can imagine.

[Jess]

I was just going to say that.

[Corey]

Nightstand, that's a third the size it should be, takes a third of the materials so you can get that price down so that it looks really good and competitive online. And then you get at home and you're like, I've purchased dollhouse furniture. It's so small, it does your room a huge disgrace. And you might be so frustrated because you're like, I don't want to have to box up this furniture and figure out how to ship it back. So you're like, trying to make it work, and now all of a sudden you're way underplaying your potential because you're working with something that's too small. And, yeah, you just forfeited the game.

[Alice]

You did.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Bummer.

[Jess]

That's funny that you say that. I mean, that's probably us working in product development and being like, how do we, you know, if we're trying to work backwards into a price point, it always is like, we have to scale it down. And that's. I think people, like, online would be like, oh, I got the same exact look. It's like, just like Jess was saying, you didn't because you got a third of the product.

[Corey]

Look at the dimensions.

[Jess]

Exactly.

[Alice]

Look at the dimensions.

[Jess]

We've all fallen for that before you got us Internet?

[Alice]

No, because I'm like, that product image is really good. And they did a little AI and put it next to a bed. But the nightstand is actually only 12 by 16, you guys. I kid you not. They make nightstands that are 12 inches by 16 inches. I'm like, there's like, I print on paper that's larger than that.

[Corey]

I was just gonna say there's paper bigger than that.

[Alice]

Like, I was just like, that can't be right. Surely that can't be right. They're showing it in an image next to a bed where proportionately, as a, you know, a buyer, you'd be like, that's perfectly. To scale. That looks great. My daughter wanted a pink nightstand that had rounded corners. Look at the scale. Like, even take tape out. If you don't, not using cad, take tape out and just like put it in there and be like, gosh, am I utilizing the amount of wall space? Will that like fit a lamp and her iPhone and like all the things you actually want to use for that table?

[Jess]

Anyway, sorry, I think of Zoolander every time.

[Alice]

Oh, a center for ants.

[Jess]

Yeah, exactly. That's so awesome.

[Alice]

It's true.

[Jess]

This.

[Alice]

That's what this should be called.

[Corey]

A simpler way of talking about scale is. Scale is the width of things and it's the height of things in your room. I mean with. And depth obviously, but the height of things in your room. And when you get that right, then it feels really good. So it's also. Skill is also really considered off of human proportion. It's off of your height. Another pet peeve of scale of mine is when I go into a room and the art is hung at the wrong height 100% of the time. When it's hung at the wrong height, it's always too high. Yeah, yeah. You've been in those homes where the art is up, like, let's just say I think the number one offender of this is the art over the mantel in a two story great room. What do they do?

[Jess]

It's like six feet above the mantle.

[Corey]

They think they need to. And especially if they did finish work and they make a panel above the mantel that stretches the full two stories, they think they need to hang that art right in the center of that panel, which is putting the art at about 16ft in the air. Right.

[Jess]

It's just get back to look at that thing.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah. So human scale. Right. Because this is based off of human dimensions. Means your eyeballs are sitting down here around 5ft 5, 2, 5, 4, depending on how high you are. That is where your eyes want to look at this. Right. So human scale is talking about the height of things. It's talking about the width of things based off of your human scale. Right. And. And probably off of you, the height of your room as well. Suzanne has eight foot ceilings. Corey has nine, nine foot ceilings. I have 10 foot ceilings. So we're going to do things that are going to scale with the height of our ceilings and with the height of our human experience. So with that, we'll go into answering these questions.

[Alice]

I know. Okay. All right, let's break down your questions.

[Corey]

Okay.

[Alice]

What scale is? We just define that, how scale applies and any basic rules we can follow. I kind of want to go through those rules with you on like just some things that we know to be the biggest impact on a room when it comes to scale. So to that we start say I get a plan, you know, from the architect. We're about to just like do start to do the design. Before I do any design, I scale furniture in a room to make sure that the room is the right size. Okay. So how I do that, if you're sitting in a home that's already created, which most of you are, and you're just like, how big of a rug should I get? How big of a sofa should I get? Like, what's the scale of all these different components? We throw down the rug very first, like how big? We have standard size rugs.

[Corey]

Suzanne's saying we throw it down on the floor plan.

[Alice]

Guys, I'm so sorry.

[Corey]

On the floor plan. So we're not just throwing down rugs in the room physically. We're just testing these floor plans that we're getting fresh from the architect. We have a new client and we're like, let's get these, let's get these floor plans and let's start populating them with furniture so we can see if there's house bloat. If, you know, just to help inform scale is the client about what their experience of living with this is. We see most often architects are going to bloat the house, right? And then the homeowner is majorly bummed when their interior designer's like, well, we're going to need two groupings of furniture in this family room because it's massive. And they're like, I don't need all that. And you're like, well, sorry, but the house is huge. And so we've got to scale the furniture grouping so it feels what you keeps calling homey, right?

[Alice]

Cozy and homey.

[Corey]

Because this is such a massive room. So if we can take a look at it early on, then we can shave off square footage from the house, which, congratulations is money back in your pocket. Right. And you're gonna get that cozy feel that you want. So, yeah, anyway, sorry.

[Jess]

Bigger is not always better.

[Alice]

Yes, bigger is not always better. So when we, but when we start any room, we start with the rug. You know, we, we start and see how big is the rug in this space. And so we're usually dealing with like 9x12s, 10x14s, 12x15s, I will say in most rooms in new homes, right Now I'm doing 12 by 15s. So 12 foot by 15 rugs to envelop a sectional that you wanted in that big family room. And the two chairs and, and the rule, I think with rugs that like, I just want me to make sure everybody, because I did some research to see, like, how big should a rug be? And on a lot of templates that like big box stores are showing you, the rug is still too small. So I'm really saying that from our perspective, you need to go larger. And so the whole sofa or the sectional needs to be sitting on the rug. Not just the front feet, the whole sectional. Also the swivel chairs that you have sitting by that window that you love to turn around and look out that view, those need to be totally sitting on the rug. So all these components need to be sitting on this rug. And the rug's job, scale wise, in that room is to create interior walls to make that space feel homey, to pull those walls in so you can have an experience in whatever, you know, job that room is doing for you, whether it's your sleeping, your dining, or your living. So go larger, go as large as you can with the rug.

[Jess]

12 by 15 is not really a, like a common or stocked size and rug too.

[Corey]

It is actually, it's. It's the largest program to size of rug that most of the vendors are going to offer.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Corey]

Yep.

[Alice]

Yeah, you might not have like, and it depends on where you shop. There might not be a pull down option. But for most rug like companies that we deal with, 12 by 15 is a stocked option. Cool. Anyway, and then you go custom from there, which if you built a house with some bloat, you're going to get some custom rugs.

[Corey]

So really custom rugs. Or another, another trick would be you could get a really beautiful like needlepoint carpet, right. Some sort of wool loop carpet that you could have bound on the edge with leather or cotton tape or something else, and you can get that cut to fit your room exactly. Maybe you have. Maybe you have a square room. Right. Rug. Rugs are rectangles generally. So maybe you want a perfect square rug. So that's another really great designer trip.

[Alice]

And you see that a lot when you look in Arc Digest and those things to just have something really kind of a still kind of tweed happening under foot. And it usually is like from the. If you have a square room, you like come in 4 to 6 inches on all sides, and that's the size of your rug, that's the scale that you're looking at. So. Yeah.

[Jess]

Cool.

[Corey]

Gorgeous. Yeah.

[Alice]

Okay. All right. And from rugs, we can get into the actual furniture, the sofas, the end tables. Because I know that that was one of your questions, Julia, is like your sofas and your end tables and the height there. And I really, like, I'm curious, like, when you guys are designing product, what. What rules do you follow based on, like our experience?

[Corey]

Yeah. Well, we look at the heights of sofa arms and then we usually go about 2 inches lower than the arm to come up with what height our side table should be. We know too, if you're going to be using a really large sectional, you might want a pretty slim table, but you want it to be super deep, to be that full depth of the sectional. Because sectionals could be like 48 inches deep now. And so having a, you know, an 18 inch round side table isn't going to look right next to that super deep sectional. You're only going to have room for a lamp on it with no surface. So it's going to look like a weird floor lamp. Right. So you need a lot of surface space, especially in these big rooms. Right. Because those tables need to scale with the size of the sofa and also with the size of the room and with the height of the lamp you're going to want on it, especially if you have a high ceiling.

[Alice]

Yep.

[Corey]

Yeah. All these things need to scale.

[Alice]

Yep.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

I feel like, Jess, where you do have like your two story ceiling, you. You scaled really, really well on your lamps in your living room.

[Corey]

Oh, thank you.

[Alice]

Yes. And so the one rule that we do for scale wise, again, the depth of the sofa. So if it's a 48 inch deep. So a lot of times those side tables are like 36 inches deep.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

You know, for that, or if you have the, you know, the generous spacing to have like a round. We love to do like a 36 inch round, you know, at the corner of a sectional or, you know, two sofas. Because it does, it fills in that gap for the depths of those sofas.

[Corey]

Yeah, there's, I guess, two examples. If you guys are watching this, you'll be able to see these examples on the screen. This is actually my family room before I changed everything in it. But you can just see that's a huge, huge, I think probably almost 40 inch round side table. And it's in line with the arm, it's just an inch or two below it. Lots and lots of surface space, which is really fun because then you can load it up in a beautiful way. Also, another huge example is in my living room, this large side table. Now the large side table trick, folks, is something that we learned from Ralph Lauren and that is that he uses massive, massive side tables. He'll use a 48 inch round dining table as a side table in a room. And when you go really generous, it looks expensive. It looks like a, what do you call it, like a historical home or an estate sale or something like that. It just feels rich. You get a lot of wood grain in the room. And those surfaces are really giving back to the space because you can see them because there's so much of them. So when you break the rules for scale, usually we're going to break them.

[Alice]

For the bigger always.

[Corey]

And then you're going to get this really designer high end look. And that's a really good way to tell kind of the men from the boys too. Right?

[Alice]

And it is skill. That's exactly what it is, skill. Separating the men from the boys. I will say too, with that trick. And when generous with your rugs, generous with your tables, you can have the function of having a lamp on that table, but still be able to gussy it up with a picture frame with books and still be able to have spots to put down your cup of.

[Corey]

Tea or your phone or your book.

[Alice]

Yeah. So really understanding, like, what is the use? How am I going to use this space? Like, will allow you to be like, hey, I do need to be more generous with me because I want to read books in here and I don't want them. I don't want my drink to teeter on my rug that I just got because I don't have any surface space for it on the end tables. So yeah, we'll always, always go bigger with our lamps.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

And I. The general rule, like with the large end table, you know, if we're going to be like 30, 30 minimum, 36 is kind of, I feel like a 36 is usually what I'm throwing on. Plans for a big round. We're going to want a big lamp. And this is one of your questions, Julia.

[Corey]

Yeah. She says, how do you know if a lamp is too big or small for a furniture piece on a table? We're just going to give you a really easy rule. This is kind of something that we tell people often and a lot. And that is you want a lamp that's 30 inches tall. That's just a rule. It could be 28, it can be 32. But if you keep. I'm holding up a tape measure. I've had this in my purse for like probably 20 years. It's a little, you know, those ribbon tape measures. You can hear mine if you're listening. That kind of click out and then you push the button and then they retract. I have a little leather one I got from long champ, like 20 years ago, and it's still the same one that's been in my purse. If you love design and you like to shop, you can, you have to have a little tape measure in your purse because you cannot tell the scale of something if you're out shopping. If it's a big lamp or a small lamp, sometimes it looks big in that small old house and you have a great big two story room. So just a general rule is get that lamp that's at least 30 inches tall for your side tables in your family room, your living room, and I think your nightstands in your bedroom.

[Alice]

Yeah, yeah.

[Corey]

That 30 inch height looks really awesome.

[Alice]

Yeah. And again, if we are going to break the rule on this, you're going to go bigger if you want to. It's never in any of those spots. Would we go smaller than that? Because I don't want to see like down on top of that lamp shade.

[Corey]

You don't want to be able to see the light bulb lit up. Yeah, no.

[Alice]

So I think a lot of designers will do this, like just to get a punch. They'll find a really great lamp that it is. It is a big girl. They'll put it in a room and it might not always be something that you can put your finger on when you look into it, but you're like, this is a great room. If you can say that about a room, say, this is a great room. Girl got her scale right. Like, that's a great size.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Yeah, I love that. And that's the rule. So there you go. Okay. Next on her question, how should your lamp in comparison to your sofa, how do you know when A piece of furniture is too big in a space.

[Corey]

She says, too big or too small? Too small comparison to everything else in the room. So I. I don't know that there's a lot of cases of being too big.

[Jess]

Can I say one?

[Corey]

Yes, please.

[Jess]

I think when people don't consider. I've done this before. That's how I know. Don't consider end tables. You know, and you're like, I'm just getting the biggest sectional or so if I can. And you put it. And then you don't have any room and you're like, you know, putting cups in between your legs and stuff like that.

[Corey]

So I would say sectional.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Like if sectional math is a special kind of ma.

[Jess]

Really is.

[Corey]

Yeah. And I just have to say not all companies, not all of our vendors write the sectional math the same directions.

[Alice]

None of them do.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Corey]

So there's not actually. There's actually not a rule for it, which is why I highly suggest working with somebody at wherever you're buying your furniture from for them to do the sectional math for you.

[Jess]

Let someone else make the mistake if that's going to happen.

[Corey]

100. It is. It is really crazy. And you know, your room.

[Alice]

Expensive.

[Corey]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alice]

Such an expensive mistake, guys.

[Corey]

Oh, gosh. And you know, your room is oriented a certain way that your sectional should only go one way in it. So if you get the reverse of that, it's a major bump ski of a day. Because buying sectionals is like buying small cars. Yeah.

[Jess]

New house time.

[Corey]

Yeah, new house time. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to turn those sectionals the opposite way because there's alligator clips and the arms on the wrong sides. And so you want to get that right. Anyway, back to how do we know if it's too big or too small?

[Alice]

I know. I think that one for if it's too big. That's a great example. Consider the end tables. You know that it's too small. When you consider again, when you see everything else around it. I'm thinking about the sectional that you just talked about. Say you got a sectional and you got the right size sectional. You worked with somebody and you put. You grabbed a cocktail table at the. At a store. Right. And you put it in and it's teeny tiny next to the sectional.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

That's a big mistake. Again, when you're dealing, especially when you're dealing with larger furniture like a sectional or even like a king sized bed. I see people do this all the time with our nightstands. Those pieces need to be scaled appropriately. To those other pieces. So if you have a large sectional, you know that's making an L. Right? They're equal sides. You almost need a square cocktail table or a full round cocktail table to be able to service all the people that are going to be using said sectional. Right. Otherwise like, like two people get to hang out with the cocktail table and everybody else is like teetering with their drinks in between their legs. So anyway, I would say just like, you know, if it's too small by the how it functions, if it functions correctly, it's scaled. Right.

[Corey]

To give you guys an idea of scale really quick. Because Corey and I are. Are designing and manufacturing furniture and we are, we are doing things at full blown out, huge scale because we know that this is what people actually need. So when you do buy furniture on our website, this has all been considered by all the design project projects we've ever done. All of the furniture that we sell on the floor and still sell today. And we know what works, and we know it sells again and again and again because it's the right size. There was a favorite cocktail table that we've sold for. We've been in business 17 years. I'll say. We've been selling this cocktail table for probably 12. Right. And its dimensions are 54 by 54 square. We always had to specify this one cocktail table. They were the only people that did it that size. If you had a sectional. Because your sectional mostly makes a square if it's a, you know, if it makes an L. And most cocktail tables are going to be like 36 by 24 or 40 by 24. And you can't have this little tiny rectangular table if you have this big L shaped thing. So we had to keep pulling this out. So we make cocktail tables that are large, like 48 inch round. 54 by 54. There's even a cocktail table from one of our vendors that we love. Looks awesome with our big, huge sectional. And it's 60 by 60. To give you guys an idea that is the size of most kitchen tables. A 60 inch round is like the size of our Luca cocktail. Luca round dining table. That's a big cocktail table.

[Alice]

But orange is shy of me.

[Corey]

Yeah, we're just like laying on the ground.

[Alice]

It's a human.

[Corey]

And you put it down there at what, like 16 inches off the ground and it looks fantastic when you have a big sectional. And these are the things you have to consider. And I have to say one of the cheat codes about shopping online at Alice Lane, about the things that we're making is it's all based off of scale. All of it's based off of our projects. What we know works in the showroom, sitting in it. Of course, we're going to take the time to do all of the research about the top selling tables, why they work, what our experience is before we create our own scale. It matters.

[Alice]

That's a really good, I think, lesson when you are furniture shopping, whether you're like using one of our in home designers or you're shopping for yourself and you're just out in the wild. Wild Interweb. Right. Is to go to our website and actually study some of those dimensions because there's a reason why it was designed. We're professionals and we know the mistakes that have been made and we're trying to avoid those by making it gracious and big enough to scale this. You know, the cocktail table with the sectional and the end table with the depth of a sofa and the height of that end table with the arm of a sofa. So you're not reaching too low or reaching too high or you want to be able to have a decent sized lamps.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

That's a really good exercise, I think, for people to do.

[Corey]

I think so too. And I do feel like some designers, some designs can be gratuitous. So they want to make this amazing thing that's never existed in the world. We're trying to just create things that we know are going to work because we know how hard it is to shop for these things that if we can get the scale right and then the finish is right because we know what people want to buy and combine those two, then we know we're going to have things that are hits and that's what we have to do. Because we are a small company that's manufacturing furniture and hopefully bringing unique pieces. We have to do something that's absolutely going to work. We're not trying to punk people. We're trying to give them the very best experience possible. And by designing these things that are made to be the perfect scale Based on 17 years experience, I just have to say I'm so, so proud of that. But I think that sectional piece that we're talking about, getting the side tables. Right. And that cocktail table. Right. The cocktail table. Right. Is gonna be the hardest thing for you. There's not very many things out there.

[Alice]

No.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah. So I just have to say I feel really good about the ones we put out there.

[Jess]

I agree.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Alice]

And when you think about the scale of those cocktail tables in the sectional, of course you're gonna need a massive rug anyway. All these things just tear on top of each other that the larger you can go in the space and really, like, map this out for yourself with some tape and make sure, like the. That it feels good in your space before you push the buy button. It's a really good. It's a really good activity to do. Look at the dimensions because they're very, very deceiving online.

[Jess]

So.

[Corey]

Yeah, that's great.

[Alice]

I love that.

[Corey]

So how do you know if it's too small? Julia wants to know.

[Alice]

Small. Your eyeball knows. Yeah.

[Jess]

Or I would say, like, let's say we're talking about a chair or a sofa. I think if you sit like we've all sat in a sofa, like, man, this like, feels good and feels right. And you may not know, it's like, oh, because it's hitting my back. You know, where exactly it should be. But if you sit in something and you feel like it's bigger than you, you know, like, we've all sat in a sofa too, where it's like, man, I feel like a giant in this thing that I would say it's. It's too small. It's like just was saying at the beginning of the episode, things should be proportioned to this, to us as human beings.

[Corey]

Yeah.

[Jess]

You know what I mean? And. And that's the way I think some companies cut corners is just by making things smaller. Yeah, exactly. And so, yeah, I would say pay attention to that as well. How you fit in it.

[Corey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alice]

I think to the point of just like sofas and sectionals, like, we always got the feedback early on that just especially males, they would want to make sure that their neck could sit on the back of a cushion. Right. On a sofa sectional. If they're going to spend the money, I want to have my neck there. If you go out into the world and you search for sofas, it's going to be rare that you're going to find a sofa height in that correct dimension. You're looking for that 35 inch, like for you to be able. A lot of them are hanging out around the 30s, 32, and that's going to be hitting your lower back.

[Corey]

They're good looking. If they're low, the taller they get, the more traditional they look and the more matronly, if you will, you kind of lose that cool, that cool aesthetic and you get into just something that looks very mature. I think it's easier to get him his own chair that he's going to feel comfortable in. If it has to recline, whatever that thing has to do, it's only one chair you have to solve for.

[Alice]

Thrown.

[Corey]

Yeah. And then you put the whole family on the sofa because they've got kids and stuff that are going to be all over their laps and he can just sit alone. We've seen studies, people prefer their own chair. They want two arms to be able to put their arms on. And it's sofa. You're only gonna be able to put one arm up on the arm. Unless you're sitting in the middle. Then, you know, you just gotta hold your own elbows with your hands or something. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think it's easier to solve for his. Whatever you need to do to make him happy. Go to La Z Boy if you have to. Hopefully you don't have to, but it's. It's a hard request that we keep running into. And then also you're solving for the dimensions of his body, because remember, scale is based off of the human. Right. So it's really fun when you get this guy that's six, seven, and he's married to this girl that's five foot. It's just like they each need their own chair.

[Alice]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Corey]

Or they've got to lay on a sectional chaise together and watch whatever they're watching, you know? Yeah.

[Alice]

But it's a good study to go in and sit in things with whoever else is going to be using this space to understand their body and scale to furniture versus yours and who else might be using this. And that's how you determine if the room's actually going to be comfortable. And don't compromise, don't say, oh, you know what, we'll be fine. We'll be fine. Because when you go back and you look at the room and nobody's using it like the way you envisioned, that's going to be really sad and a waste of money.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Alice]

So like really the skill is everything to get that finished Look. And if it looks good again, it's because of the scale, like at the end of the day. So.

[Corey]

Yeah, true that. Good. Did we. Did we hit all of her answers? Okay, good. Well, I hope that was helpful, Julia. And to the rest of you, that tuned in scale is one of those things that is really, really fun to play around with. You have lots of furniture in your house you can rearrange and try a few things on. But maybe skill is something that you really work to understand for yourself. And maybe you're just off an end table or off on the sides of your lamps. And once you get it right, it's going to feel really, really good. Yeah. If you guys have any topic ideas that you'd like to hear on the podcast, please feel free to send those to dear Alice alicelanehome.com and we'd love for you to leave us a review. 5 stars if you think that we're worth it. And thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you guys next week. Hey, thanks for listening. If you like our show, please leave a five star rating.