It’s Me or The Dog with Madelaine Petsch

Summary

Dear Chelsea: “It’s Me or The Dog” with Madelaine Petsch

Podcast: Dear Chelsea
Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Chelsea Handler
Co-host: Katherine Law
Guest: Madelaine Petsch

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Episode Overview

In this lively advice-filled episode, Chelsea Handler and co-host Katherine Law are joined by actress Madelaine Petsch (known for "Riverdale" and "The Strangers" franchise). The episode covers Madelaine’s international upbringing, her career and mental health journey, and delves into listener advice queries on relationships, friendship boundaries, and navigating pet-parent dilemmas. The trio strikes a balance between heartfelt, humorous, and practical advice, with plenty of candid moments and memorable zingers.

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Main Discussion Themes and Segments

1. Madelaine Petsch’s Background & Career (04:09–13:19)

• Upbringing and Dual Heritage:

  • Madelaine clarifies misconceptions about her South African background—parents are South African but she mainly grew up in Washington state, with regular family trips to South Africa.
    • “It's really interesting how interviews can skew the reality of my life so much.” – Madelaine (04:09)
  • Discusses cultural differences, especially around manners and social awareness.
    • “I think probably manners.” – Madelaine (05:57)

• Travel and Adventures:

  • Jokes about safaris and snake phobias, and stories about safaris in Durban, South Africa.

• Professional Projects:

  • Talks about recent movies: horror sequel “The Strangers Chapter 2” and upcoming romcom “Maintenance Required.”
    • Shares experience filming in Slovakia and her appreciation for Bratislava’s charm and the country’s atmospheric (and abandoned) locations.
  • Behind-the-scenes of horror filmmaking, including dealing with real hospital morgues and her love for the genre’s freedom.
    • “I truly believe right now the best movies...are horror because they're the only ones that are like, different.” – Madelaine (11:49)

2. Mental Health, Therapy, and Family Dynamics (13:29–21:17)

• Managing Anxiety:

  • Madelaine opens up about growing up in a dysfunctional household and discovering the physiological component to her anxiety—a copper imbalance—and how therapy is her most valuable tool.
    • “It was so validating to understand that at a real molecular level, like a physiological.” – Madelaine (14:56)

• Therapy Experiences:

  • Describes trying hypnosis (and pretending it worked), the role of long-term therapy, and why you shouldn't fake progress.
  • Emphasis on destigmatizing seeking help for mental health.

• Impact of Family on Life Choices:

  • Discussion about motherhood, maternal role models, and how loving mothers (and family dysfunction) influence choices around parenthood.
  • Katherine describes her own childhood and reflects on differing definitions of “normal.”
  • On societal pressure for women to have children:
    • “For the longest time, I think I just got so annoyed that society tells you as a woman your only real purpose is to have children, that I was like, go [f***] yourself.” – Madelaine (19:49)

3. Madelaine’s Personal Interests (20:24–22:47)

• Pets & Tattoos:

  • Talks about rescuing her dog Olive and having a tattoo of Olive’s teeth.
  • Also has a tattoo of her mom's loving phrase.

• Pole Dancing:

  • Took up pole dancing for a movie and now as a form of fitness (and bruises from it).
    • “It's really fucking hard. I had no idea how much arm strength you need.” – Madelaine (21:13)

• On Loving One’s Work:

  • The group expresses gratitude for careers centered on their passions.
  • Reflection on privilege vs. hard work in entertainment.

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Listener Advice Questions

4. Dating a “Bad Texter” (26:25–33:13)

Listener: Jack, 26, NYC
Issue: Dating someone great who’s a terrible texter; worried intermittent communication will jeopardize the relationship.

Hosts’ Advice:

• Madelaine: Sees it as a green flag—less phone obsession suggests better in-person connection.
  • “This is not communication. Like, nothing about this is connection and communication.” – Madelaine (28:32)
• Chelsea & Katherine: Agree texting style isn’t a dealbreaker. Reset expectations; if the vibe in-person is strong, that matters most.
• On ChatGPT in Dating:
  • Madelaine’s best friend uses ChatGPT for guidance on texts.
  • Katherine warns of environmental concerns:
    • “Every time we use ChatGPT, it is like you have to go to...a lithium farm...terrible for the environment...” – Katherine (30:35)
• AI and Relationships:
  • Spirited speculation on future AI partners and human connection (discussions of movies like “Her”).

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5. Dog vs. Boyfriend: The Pet-Parent Dilemma (34:12–41:28)

Listener: Alyssa
Issue: Her boyfriend, who’s moved in, wants more “dog-free” time and restricts bedroom access for her beloved dog, their COVID-era “baby.”

Hosts’ Advice:

• Immediate reaction is strong concern and skepticism.
  • “Let that man go.” – Madelaine (36:40)
  • “He’s in his car to avoid being around your dog. That is fucked up.” – Katherine (36:43)
• Nuance Added:
  • Would be different if boyfriend was allergic or had trauma, but here it seems controlling.
• Big Takeaways:
  • Pre-existing “family” (dog) should not be compromised for a partner, unless there are basic, reasonable boundaries. Adjust the conversation, reset the boundary, and advocate for your pet.
  • Use white noise or earplugs for the snoring, not exclusion.
    • “And get a white noise machine if he can't handle the snoring. Like, just, like, blast a bunch of fans in the room.” – Chelsea (41:03)

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6. Navigating Changing Friendships (43:54–49:28)

Listener: Elle
Issue: Therapist whose close friend (also a therapist) pulled away after Elle set boundaries regarding alarmist news sharing and questioning of “safe space” in their friendship.

Hosts’ Advice:

• Self-Reflection:
  • Elle admits feeling drained by the friendship and acknowledges that boundaries shifted things.
• Key Guidance:
  • Apologize once; multiple apologies unnecessary.
  • Let the friendship take its new shape without forcing resolution—embrace the space as a potential blessing.
    • “Take the space as a gift...this is kind of like a little blessing in disguise.” – Katherine (47:08)
  • In-person connection may reset the dynamic. Let time and proximity bring clarity.

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7. Supporting a “Late Bloomer” Friend (Virginity & Family Dynamics) (52:45–56:24)

Listener: Jamie
Issue: Concern for friend Miranda, 32, who’s never kissed anyone, has an overbearing (possibly controlling) father, and is struggling socially.

Hosts and Madelaine’s Advice:

• Do not jump to conclusions about sexual abuse or “past lives” without evidence.
  • “That's a pretty big leap.” – Chelsea (54:17)
  • “That's a little crazy.” – Madelaine (54:28)
• Address Current Dynamics:
  • The father-daughter dynamic is concerning—being told how to dress in her 30s suggests possible enmeshment or arrested development.
  • Gently encourage Miranda to seek therapy (“soft, gentle ways”) to address family boundaries and uncover potential sources of her struggles.
    • “It's also unusual that you've never been kissed...wondering if you should really have somebody who has no opinions about your life to bounce this stuff off of.” – Katherine (55:24)
  • Ultimately, it’s not Jamie’s burden to “fix” her friend, only to offer care and resources.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Therapy & Anxiety:
  • “I don't know if that's ever going to go away, but there are tools I can have to fix that or to help manage it.” – Madelaine (14:56)
• On Societal Pressures:
  • “For the longest time, I think I just got so annoyed that society tells you as a woman your only real purpose is to have children, that I was like, go [f***] yourself.” – Madelaine (19:49)
• On Horror Movies:
  • “I feel like fear is the only emotion you can't really manufacture because your body doesn't know the difference with fear.” – Madelaine (11:09)
• On protecting your “pack”:
  • “It's so unfair...to basically, it's like punitive. Like, this guy is setting the tone for how much time you spend with your dog. That was preexisting. That was a pre existing relationship that your boyfriend is now disrupting. That in and of itself is unacceptable...” – Katherine (37:12)

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Episode Highlights by Timestamp

• 04:09: Madelaine’s real upbringing; debunking interview myths
• 05:57: Cultural differences between South Africa and the US
• 07:37: Details on filming “The Strangers Chapter 2”
• 10:09: Love of horror genre and industry insights
• 13:29: Madelaine’s mental health and therapy journey
• 17:43: Discussion on motherhood and parental role models
• 20:24: Revealing dog tattoos and stories of rescue dogs
• 26:25: Advice: How to date a “bad texter”
• 34:12: Advice: Navigating partner vs pet boundaries
• 43:54: Advice: Therapist friends, boundaries, and safe spaces
• 52:45: Advice: How to support an unusually sheltered friend

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Tone & Style

Conversational, honest, witty, and occasionally irreverent—classic Chelsea style, with Madelaine’s candor and warmth pairing well. The advice is both empathetic and practical, blending personal anecdote with generalizable wisdom.

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Quick Takeaways

• Texting does not define a relationship; face-to-face connection is key.
• Don’t compromise core bonds (with pets/family) for someone else’s comfort without serious discussion.
• Therapy, boundaries, and honest self-reflection are crucial—not just for individuals but for sustaining healthy relationships of all kinds.
• Support friends through suggestion and care, not by assuming or forcing psychological narratives onto them.

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For more information, tour dates, or advice submissions:

• Write to dearchelseapodcastmail.com
• Follow full episodes on YouTube (search: DearChelseaPod)
• Follow Chelsea’s “High and Mighty” tour (details at chelseahandler.com)

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

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[Ad Voice]

Hi, Toby.

[Katherine]

Hi. Madelaine has some projects coming out, you guys. The Strangers Chapter 2, which is a horror movie, hits theater September 26, and then she has a rom com called Maintenance Required, which hits Amazon on October 8th. They are both now out. So I read that you grew up in South Africa and Washington state.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, I mean, my parents are South African, so we would go back, but I was primarily in Washington. It's really interesting how interviews can skew the reality of my life so much.

[Katherine]

So basically all interviews get skewed and then they like, I don't. I talk about being child free and people are like, chelsea Handler hates children. I talk about not wanting, like, I talk about not wanting to be married. And they're like, chelsea Handler hates men. Which is closer to the truth than hating children. But I don't hate anyone I don't have the energy to hate. But I hear you, what you're saying. So you probably were interviewed several times and told them that your parents are from South Africa and people are like, she commuted on the Concorde, the one that goes straight from Johannesburg in the 70s. From Johannesburg to Olympia, Washington.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah. Actually, no, I'd go back. I would go back in the summer and in the winter. So twice a year we'd go back and see my whole family, because my entire extended family is there. But I would say the primary part of my life and the formative years were spent in Washington.

[Katherine]

Okay, cute. I dated a South African once. And then he bought me this very fancy pair. This was like when I was in my 20s and I was waitressing, and he bought me this very fancy pair of earrings. And then I realized, oh, it's time to break up.

[Chelsea Handler]

Was it a blood diamond?

[Katherine]

Yes, it was a blood diamond.

[Madelaine Petsch]

And that was why.

[Katherine]

It was just obvious that he and I were on different pages if he was buying me jewelry. Do you know what I mean?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I would never say no to jewelry, though. I'm like, buy me more before I break up with them.

[Katherine]

I would. Because you know what, Madelaine? We can both buy ourselves jewelry. So why who cares? You know what I mean? That's what I like to focus on.

[Chelsea Handler]

What I.

[Katherine]

What I need from a man is not jewelry.

[Chelsea Handler]

And the jewelry that a man is picking is, like, probably not what you'd pick for yourself a lot of times.

[Katherine]

What do you think the biggest cultural differences are between, say, South Africa and the States?

[Madelaine Petsch]

That's such an interesting question. I think probably Manners.

[Katherine]

Great fucking answer.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I hate to say that, but people are a lot more polite in South Africa and, like, kind to people they don't know.

[Katherine]

I feel like people are more.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Lack of social awareness.

[Katherine]

Right. I feel like people are a lot more polite in many places outside of America, not just South Africa. I think it's an American problem. But, yes, I think manners is a great thing to bring up. Yeah, I mean, Cape Town. Are you from Cape Town?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Durban.

[Katherine]

Oh, okay. Oh, I have a safari guide from Durban. So have you've. I bet you've been on a couple of safaris.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I certainly have. Kruger national park, you know it?

[Katherine]

Oh, yeah. I love safaris. That's my dream vacation. Minus the snakes.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I didn't have any. I've never had a bad experience with a snake before.

[Katherine]

I've never had, like, a snake attack me. But I believe they are out to get me. And when I see them, my reaction is like, I have a phobia. It's not. It's more than a fear. It's a phobia. Like, I will freak out. And I start to like. We saw one of those snakes with their heads up this last time we.

[Chelsea Handler]

Were on safari, which was like, that situation.

[Katherine]

It wasn't a cobra. It's a. It was like an asp. It was something that I. It was the most dangerous snake that they have in Kenya. I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I was like, what was that? They're like, nothing. And we were in the jeep, luckily. But they're the ones that could poison you by with their spit, and they could get in your eyes.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I don't think I want to go on a safari with you.

[Katherine]

I do. I do have bad luck. Although I haven't had one chase me. Knock on wood. Let's not even talk about such things, Madeline. Okay, so tell me about your two projects. They're very opposite. One's a horror movie, one's a romantic comedy. What? Do you have a preference? I know this is a sequel. Strangers Chapter two.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I have a preference. I think I love them both. You can't pick between your children. The Strangers Chapter two is like. It's. It's honestly my baby, because I shot all three at once in Slovakia three or four years ago. And I've been editing them. By the way, I love Slovakia.

[Katherine]

What's going on in Slovakia?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I was terrified to go because I just didn't know anything about it. And it's so far away. I felt like I was being shipped off to never be seen again. But I fell in love with Bratislava. I would go shoot there time and time again.

[Katherine]

Where is Slovakia geographically?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Well, it used to be Czechoslovakia, so it's right next to Austria and the Czech Republic.

[Katherine]

Oh, so that's not that far away. It's just Eastern Europe.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, Eastern Europe.

[Chelsea Handler]

Everyone says the Czech Republic is gorgeous.

[Katherine]

Czech Republic is gorgeous. That's where Prague is. And so Slovakia is a newer country than the other. Well, Czech Republic is a new country too, because it used to be Czechoslovakia. It's all Slovakia. So you had a great time there. What's it like? What's the vibe there? Is it a big city? Were you shooting in the country?

[Madelaine Petsch]

We were shooting out in the middle of nowhere. It was like two hours from Bratislava. But they've got a city center that's really sweet and there's a lot of things to do. And then there's like lots of. Lots of. Lots of land and abandoned hospitals and things like that, which is why we shot there. We needed some abandoned hospitals. Right, right.

[Katherine]

It sounds actually like a place. Slovakia sounds like a place that has a lot of abandoned hospitals.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Well, there you go. And it does. Can confirm.

[Chelsea Handler]

So when you're, like, crawling into the freezer beds in the morgue, is that like a real one?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Okay, so actually I had. I am a bit of a germaphobe, and I had a bit of a freak out. There are certain things that I can do. I'm like, you want me to run down this hallway, hurt myself? Fine. I'm not getting into a real morgue or. That feels like Where I draw the line, really? A dead body in there at one point. I just can't. They actually built the morgue. Okay, in that they built it in the hospital, which is such a crazy thing to think about, but they built the morgue.

[Caller/Guest]

Wow.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Allegedly. Actually, you know what? They could have actually lied to me.

[Chelsea Handler]

They just told you they did, and you're like, crawling in there with the old dead body. Now you're a huge fan of horror, right? Like, you loved the original Strangers with Liv Tyler. To me, because that movie, you know, and the Strangers, chapter one, two and three that you're talking about now, like, this is home invasion that we're talking about. To me, that's kind of like the scariest possible thing. Cause like, slashers, you know, whatever, a guy chasing you through the woods, like that can kind of happen in any movie. But you think about, like, someone coming into your home and it's just random. That, to me, is the most terrifying thing. So tell me, tell us about your love of horror.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Well, it started at a young age. I was forced to watch it when I was like seven. And it terrified me. And I was like, I'm gonna conquer this if it's the last I do. I'll never be scared again by a film. No. And then I just fell in love with it. I'm not even sure why, but I think. I think horror similarly to, like, foreign filmmaking is not so risk averse. I think every other genre in American cinema is very risk averse. And so I think you could take a lot more risk. You could have a lot more fun in horror. There's a lot more genre bending and rule bending and probably why I love it so much, honestly.

[Katherine]

That's a good point though, because you can make it, like, campy, you can make it super heightened, or you could make it a very nuanced horror. So that's actually a good point that you make that I hadn't thought about. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Are you a horror person?

[Katherine]

I don't typically love horror movies. I don't like to be fake scared.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay.

[Katherine]

You know what I mean? And I also. I don't like violence, but horror is a different category to violence. I think horror is like, you're supposed to be scared. Like, I don't love that feeling. It's not my favorite genre, but I respect it.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, it's hard to do. I mean, I always say, I feel like fear is the only. The only emotion you can't really manufacture because your body doesn't know the difference with fear. So I was actually In Fight or Flight the whole time I was shooting those movies. I don't look back on it fondly by any means, but I do love the movies very much.

[Chelsea Handler]

Would you do a horror movie again, having like gone through? Because especially shooting them concurrently. Like, I know you said, you know, one day you might be shooting a scene from the first movie and the third movie. So would you do that again in maybe a smaller scale with a single film?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I probably would never shoot three movies at once again.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh yeah?

[Katherine]

Who the fuck wants to do that?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Well, I was, you know, you know me four years ago. I can't talk to her now, but she was like, this is a fun challenge. Like you can do that. But yes, I actually, I love horror because again, it's like, I truly believe right now the best movies that are being made are horror because they're the only ones that are like, different. Everything else is so carbon copy of something else. This is actually like every script that I'm getting that's horror is like unique and different. And you can make them for a small budget so you can follow the filmmaker's real vision and you're not arguing with the studio. Like, it's just there's a lot more freedom in horror, I think right now.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I think people are starting to realize that. You know, of course you can have your campy in silly horror movies, but to have a really good solid actor in a horror film is what helps bring it to life, you know, like, I love a schlocky 70s one with terrible acting, but like that.

[Katherine]

You're talking about Katherine. You're talking about porn right now. I told you to stop talking about porn.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's always an allegory for porn.

[Katherine]

That's not what we're here for.

[Chelsea Handler]

But like the emotions that you're bringing on screen, I felt viscerally like they're very real. You are like crying a lot of the time because you're being stalked. I will say one thing I very much identified with in the Strangers Chapter two was there is a moment. I hope this is not too much of a spoiler, but there is a moment that includes a wild boar. And there's a moment where you're actually like laying still and get stepped on by the wild boar. And I identified with that because that's literally exactly what happens with my dog. Every single morning. She comes like stands on my chest and is like sniffing my face, seeing if I'm awake.

[Katherine]

So I think that's a lot different than a wild boar. First of all, you know, Your dog, You're in my bedroom. You're safe. What? That scene in that movie is scary.

[Chelsea Handler]

She's threatening me, that it's time to get up.

[Katherine]

Madelaine, I know you talk publicly, which I think is such a nice service, especially for all your fans. And I know you have millions, 20something million followers on Instagram alone. You talk very openly about stressful times in your life, panic attacks, therapy, how you calm yourself down. In this podcast, we talk a ton about that because our listeners are. We have people who call in, which you'll see in a moment, asking for advice. But can you talk a little bit about that and how you were able to find a way to kind of soothe your nerves and the steps you took to get to a place where you were able to identify that there was even an issue in the first place?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, I mean, I grew up in a quite dysfunctional home as a child, and so I think what I. It all felt normal as a kid. And then I moved to LA and I was alone and everybody around me wasn't experiencing that as much. The anxiety, the panic, the kind of like I would catastrophize everything, everything was the worst thing in the world. And that kind of carried into probably my early to mid-20s and during the pandemic actually was the impetus for me to figure out what was wrong with me. I went and got my brain scanned. Wow, there's gotta be something seriously wrong with me. And it was actually kind of validated because he was like, oh, your copper. Your body produces too much copper, so you have to do this to help fix. And it was like, oh, my body actually has something that is creating anxiety within me. It was so validating to understand that at a real molecular level, like a physiological. Helped a lot.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Like, it wasn't just like, yes, of course I'm an anxious person. Like, I don't know if that's ever going to go away, but there are tools I can have to fix that or to help manage it. But there's actually also something that I can do right now that makes me feel like, okay, this can help. And so I am on some, like, a pretty good supplement regimen, and I also do weekly therapy. I think talk therapy is the thing that changed everything the most, though, honestly.

[Katherine]

And did you have trouble finding a good therapist that you connected with?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I've only ever had one. I've had the same one for almost 10 years.

[Katherine]

So I guess the answer is, no, you did not have trouble finding.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Actually, you know what, Chelsea? When I first moved to la. I did. I tried one other therapist, and, I mean, it was the hokiest thing. He was trying to, like, hypnotize me on his couch, and I was, like, kind of feeling bad because it didn't work. And so I acted like I was hypnotized.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I was like, maybe I should just act like it's working.

[Katherine]

That's like faking an orgasm for a man, acting like therapy's working when it's not. Hypnotism, especially.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, it was for a man. The things we do.

[Chelsea Handler]

But that's the thing is, like, anxiety can so often be a physiologically induced thing. And, you know, people say, you know, oh, I don't want to go get treatment, or, like, oh, I can manage it, or whatever. But, like, if you had a broken leg, you wouldn't say, like, no, I don't want to go to the doctor. And it's really the same thing.

[Katherine]

Yeah. I remember the first time I ever had, like, that kind of shaky leg syndrome thing when I was on stage talking the first time it happened. Like, the more conscientious you become of it, the more it increases and it gets worse and worse and worse. And then it's in your head. You're like, fuck, I can't stand up straight. Like, I stand up for a living. I'm not gonna be able to stand up and talk. And then I was like, oh, it's the heels. Let me get rid of the heels. And then I'd be in flats, and then I'd be like. And that was more stabilizing. But, like, yeah, it's not. You can't put a band aid on it. You kind of have to get to the root of the issue then. In the meantime, take a beta blocker.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Anyone who's listening, Hitler as a hammock. You're in a panic attack. Call it a day. I don't know.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, that was my thing for a while.

[Katherine]

So why was your family so dysfunctional?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I grew up with a father who. How do I describe it? I don't want to diagnose him on a podcast, but he was very unpredictable at highs and lows all the time. And so I couldn't really. There was no consistency in my household as a child, so it was a lot of questioning whether or not I was loved as a kid.

[Katherine]

Okay, and what about your mom? Was your mom in the house with you guys?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Oh, yeah. She's the best ever. And I don't think I'd be where I am today without her. She's like one of those people who was meant to be a mom.

[Katherine]

Yeah, that was how my mom was, too. My mom was so soft and sweet.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Which do you feel like? I have a question for you, actually. Because I, for the longest time, thought I didn't want children. And I feel like having a mom who was meant to be a mom made me realize, like, or think that. I realized I don't feel that way. Maybe I shouldn't have kids. And now I've shifted. Now I actually want children. But for the longest time, I think my mom being such a good mom made me be like, oh, I don't think I can live up to that.

[Katherine]

Yeah, I think you bring up a good point, because I think that, yes, my. I'm one of six children. How many siblings do you have?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Just one.

[Katherine]

Okay. So my mom was a mama bear. Like, she was like. But not in a fierce, like, fierce way. She just, like, loved us so much and she wanted her, like, cubs around her. She wasn't really that interested in our friends or our boyfriends. She tolerated those people and she gave out love to them when they needed it. Like, I had a best friend from high school who I grew up with, and she was like, your mom was the first person who told me she loved me. And I was like, oh, my God, that's so my mom, you know, that was so sweet of my mom. My mom recognized that her house was pretty dysfunctional, as was mine. I mean, I don't know anybody who grew up. I have some friends in LA that grew up here and think they had normal childhoods. And I have to always remind them. You don't. You grew up in fucking Beverly Hills.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

No, your relative, like, what's relative to you is not relative to the rest of the world. And it's no wonder you still live here because you're living in a fantasy world, you know, like, that's not real life. But, yes, back to the question at hand is. My mom was so loving and such a caretaker and such a homemaker. Like, she was always cooking for us. There was always snacks when you got home from school at, like, 3 o' clock in the afternoon, there'd be like a vat of macaroni and cheese as a snack. And so it was like, you know, her language was like, food and comfort. And we would go up to her room, you know, before we went to bed and jump into bed with her and, like, hope that we could. I would just always hope, oh, please don't kick me out of the bed. Like, let me sleep in the bed, you know, like, that's how cozy. And I used to call her chunky. Cause she was chunky. And she had little flaps of skin, like extra meat packets everywhere. And I just loved her, like, body. But she was. But it definitely was. That is so antithetical to how I saw my life going. So that is a great thing to bring up. It's like sometimes when you look at your own mother and you realize how good at mothering they are, you're like, wow, I won't be able to hold a candle to that. And then, conversely, the opposite was true. She didn't have a lot of independence. She didn't have a lot of her own money. She didn't have anything in her name. You know, my dad ran the show. But I looked at that. Like, I don't want that either.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Right, right. That's so interesting. I never thought about it like that. I actually recently just probably in the last eight months or a year, decided I want to be a mom. For the longest time, I think I just got so annoyed that society tells you, as a woman, your only real purpose is to have children. That I was like, go yourself. Like, that's not how I feel. And then I was like, wait, am I just doing this to be a contrarian? Like, let me really check in with myself in therapy and see if I really feel that maternal instinct. And I just. There was one day I had therapy, and I was like, I just want to have a child with my best friend. That would be so fun. And she goes, hey, wait. You can. Yeah, you can pick who you have your child with. And that's when I was like, oh, it's so funny.

[Katherine]

Cause you're saying child, and it sounds like, chow. And I have a chow chow in here. And I'm like, that's how I feel. I wanted a chow, too. That's the only kind of dog I get. Are chow chows. You rescue animals, too?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I do, yeah.

[Katherine]

How many do you have?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I have one little girl. Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Olive, right?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Olive.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I've seen a couple pictures. She's very cute.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I have her little teeth tattooed on my arm.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you have a tattoo of your mom. Like something your mom says, too, right, my darling?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I do bruises there from pole dancing, but here it is.

[Katherine]

Are you pole dancing on the regular?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, I did it for a movie that I just wrapped, like, four or five days ago.

[Katherine]

How was it to learn pole dancing?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Well, you know, I am anemic, so I bruised a lot. But outside of that, it's so much Fun. I'm going to keep doing it now that the movie's over.

[Caller/Guest]

Is it?

[Katherine]

And it's good exercise. People say, beyond.

[Madelaine Petsch]

It's. It's really fucking hard. I had no idea how much arm strength you need. I. In my head, it makes sense to me. Like, strength. But it's mostly your arms, right.

[Chelsea Handler]

And it's like, as women, that's something we have to, like, work on to have the upper body strength. Do you ever go to Jumbo's Clown Room and just, like, see the feats of strength?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Absolutely. I love that.

[Chelsea Handler]

My favorite. It's my favorite. We used to live on the same block as that, actually, so we went quite frequently.

[Katherine]

What a coinky dink for you.

[Chelsea Handler]

And my husband never wanted to go. I was just like, I want to go and, like, cheer for women in bikinis doing feats of strength. Like, it's so fun.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Incredible. When they're hanging upside down, you're like, hey, this is crazy. How are you even up there?

[Katherine]

So, Madelaine, you love what you do. You can tell that you love what you do, right? You feel very. Like, you must feel very grateful to have such a successful career at such a young age, right?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I do. Yeah. I really. I think there's nothing else in the world I'd be happy doing.

[Katherine]

I think that's how you get into this business is when everything else just seems unreasonable. Like, I tried to be a temp, and they were like, you're fired. I got fired from every single job I ever did. My sister's like, that's because you can't do anything but be in this business. Like, you're a comedian. You're a voice. Like, you want to talk. And that's. That's really all I want to do is talk. Luckily, I've made a career out of talking, and I never realized that until I was writing my last book, and I was like, oh, my God, how lucky are we to get to do the thing that we want to do? And also, you make such a good living doing what you want to do. I used to remember watching baseball players, like, get traded, and I'd be, like, so upset at their disloyalty to their original team. Like, how could you trade? How could you go from the Boston Red Sox to the Yankees? Like, doesn't any loyalty matter? And I'm like, you're already making crazy money doing the thing you love to do the most. Like, some people have to work at a job they fucking hate their whole life. And they don't get to make, like, Those people deserve to make the big money and the people who get to do what they love should just be able to get by. That's how I feel about it. I mean, I'm not trying to give away, you know, my good blessings, but that's. It doesn't. It's all upside down and it's kind.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Of interesting, isn't it?

[Katherine]

Yeah, I think so. We're gonna take a break and we'll be right back with Madelaine Petsch. From nursing and healthcare to business and it, Rasmussen has a range of programs to fit your goals and passion no matter what your day to day looks like. Rasmussen's programs allow you to balance school with life while you pursue your degree. So if you're ready to pursue your education goals, Rasmussen is ready to help you take that next step. Head on over to Rasmussen Edu and check out the opportunities waiting for you. Your future is a bright Rasmussen University can help you get there.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

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[Katherine]

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[Chelsea Handler]

We've got some advice questions.

[Katherine]

People call in for advice and then we give it to them. You seem very mature that you're gonna be good at this. You've been to therapy where all ducks, all of our ducks are in a row. Quack, quack.

[Chelsea Handler]

And like feel free to pull from experiences like friends have had and you know, things just that you've learned in the world. It doesn't all have to be from your own experience. So our first question is about dating a bad texter. So our first question comes from Jack. This one's just an email. He says, dear Chelsea, I'm a 26 year old gay man, single and dating in NYC. About a month ago I went on a hinge date and we really hit it off. He seemed to check a lot of the boxes since then and we've gone on about five dates. Every time we get together the conversation is endless and he seems very into me. We have great sexual chemistry as well and every time we part ways, we try to set another date. It's been a while since I've gone this long talking to someone while everything is going well. The but here is that the man is an awful texter. During the week, texts can be pretty sporadic and sometimes during weekends I'll go a few days without hearing from him. When I lightly joke about it, he says, sorry, I'm a bad texter and have been super busy. I personally can be a bad texter myself and also do not like to look at my phone too much if I'm with other people and having a good time. But I'm excited about this prospect and would like for it to keep moving forward. I worry that not Talking with this guy more often might cause this to fall through the cracks. I feel like I'm walking a fine line of not trying to seem too available or too invested since it's only been about a month. But I also don't want him to think I don't care, because, like I said, I want to keep this moving in a positive direction. Any thoughts, Jack?

[Katherine]

I think some people just really are bad at texting. Like, I was on this guy's. I was vacationing at this guy's house, and I sent him this beautiful text. Like, well, I thought it was beautiful. I was like, thank you so much. Your house is so beautiful. Your staff is so beautiful. Like, just going on and on like a normal thank you, you know? And it was almost two paragraphs long. And he wrote back, welcome. And I'm like, God, I'm like, what did I do? Like, maybe he hates me. And then, like, two weeks later, he invited me to something else. And some people just don't communicate like that. I don't know what you do about that. What do you think, Madeline?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I actually think it's a green flag if someone's bad at texting.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, okay. Say about that.

[Madelaine Petsch]

I know. That's a hot take. I like the idea of somebody not being so obsessed with their phone. I don't. I had this, like, spiritual awakening recently where it's like, this is not communication. Like, nothing about this is connection and communication. Like, as long as you're in person and you've got a good thing going and you feel like somebody is trustworthy and you can tell them how you feel, that's kind of all that matters. And if it falls through the cracks because you guys aren't texting enough, then that's just not your person. Yeah.

[Katherine]

I also don't think you should let it fall through the. Like, you shouldn't have the mindset that it's going to fall through the cracks because of his. Because of his lack of interest in texting. While it annoys you, it is like she just said, there are good points to, like, not having somebody addicted to their phone and not having someone. And some people also don't feel confident in their texting abilities. Right. Like, I see that with some people. Like, they don't know. You know, things get lost in translation. And I do think our phones have hijacked our lives, as, you know, as we are learning and have learned for the last 10 years. So. So that's not a deal breaker, in my opinion. I think you should just, like, work around that and reset your expectations about what you want from the relationship. It doesn't really. Texting doesn't keep a relationship alive.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I mean, and some people have a different vibe when they're texting than in person. Like, I know one of my girlfriends, she is now married to this woman, but her, her now wife was like, yeah, when we first were texting, like, she was oddly formal with texting, which is sort of a language like she and I use where we're just like to be a little funny. We use very formal language in texting. And she was like, I thought she was gonna be kind of weird. And then like, obviously they hit it off and, you know, are in love and married now. But I do have one more question for you about this. So I've heard that amongst people your age, there is a phenomenon of guys especially using ChatGPT to like craft their text responses. Have you or any friends experienced this?

[Madelaine Petsch]

My best friend uses ChatGPT for everything.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, no.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Oh, yeah. She'll actually, like, input texts and be like, what does this mean? What is he trying to say to me? How should I respond? It's really interesting to watch.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

Oh my gosh.

[Katherine]

Yeah. Well, tell your friend every time she uses ChatGPT, she's killing about 10 water buffalo. Because every time we use ChatGPT, it is like you have to go to. It goes to a lithium farm. They have these huge battery operated farms that are providing all the energy resources that we need. So it's terrible for the environment, which is something they never fucking talk about. As soon as I heard that, I'm like, oh my God, I'm not ever going to use it.

[Madelaine Petsch]

But how have I never heard that as somebody?

[Katherine]

I asked ChatGPT how bad using ChatGPT was for the environment, and it gave me a comprehensive response about why it is so bad.

[Chelsea Handler]

But AI.

[Katherine]

On another note about talking about guys who would make up like text or consult chat for like, how to talk to a woman. Talking about incels. Like, I was at this thing the other night and this guy was telling me I was at this dinner and this guy was telling me that he's in the tech world, he's in AI, he's one of these investors in one of these AI groups. And he was delineating all, you know, the differences between all of the AI platforms like Grok and Chat. And so he was saying that, you know, it's only a matter of like a month or two before we're gonna have our own robot that are gonna be available to, like, you know, the first wave of robots and that men are going to be able to customize. Did I already tell you this? That men aren't gonna be able to. As will women be able to customize the type of person they want as, like, a lover or an assistant? Like, I could say, oh, I want someone with red hair, and I want somebody who doesn't talk back. And I want somebody who's really good at making Mexican food. And I also want somebody who's gonna also be really good with the dogs. Like, you can basically customize your person. They can have a working vagina so you can have sex with your robot. And I was like, okay, well, listen, as a person, I go, that's something. He goes, every guy is gonna wanna do that who doesn't, like, really know how to operate with women. Like, if that doesn't. And I'm like, yeah, but does human connection not count for anything anymore? And he said, no, it does, but only to the people that it matters to. Because there's so many incel. Types of people now in the world that don't have any communication because all they do is stay on their phone or communicate via their phone. But I was like, oh, I could design a robot that's really good at skiing for the winter, that makes me drinks when I'm done with skiing, that stretches me in the morning so I'm getting ready for my skiing, and then makes me dinner and then has sex with me. And he can look like whatever I want and come and appear as a real man. And he's like, well, that's not gonna be the first wave. Like, you are gonna be dealing with a robot, but eventually you will be able to create a person who has all the qualities you want. And I thought, that is so fucking crazy.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's so fucking crazy. I mean, I did see someone on the street in West Hollywood yesterday with a robot dog. So, I mean, it's happening. It's already happening.

[Katherine]

It is happening. And they keep.

[Madelaine Petsch]

There's a movie called Companion that everybody here needs to watch. Clearly.

[Katherine]

And what was the movie with Scarlett Johansson? What was that? It.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Her.

[Caller/Guest]

Her.

[Katherine]

Yeah, that's it, too.

[Madelaine Petsch]

It's literally what you're talking about.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Yeah. And we've basically made movies to give everybody ideas about how to make this a reality. We're turning into the Terminator because we.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well, I read an article about this recently, too. Apparently a lot of, like, teens, like, young teens, like, their first romantic relationships are with AI. Like, they're, like, giving it a name and it's their boyfriend and they like check in after school.

[Katherine]

I mean, I'm so glad it's dark. I'm so glad that I just hope that I'm dead before all of this is. It takes charge. I only have 12 months, according to this. I know I can't take any more changes. I can't take this technology. It's too much. Maybe AI can finish my house.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, there you go. There you go.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Oh, there you go.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, Alyssa writes in with a question that hopefully you both will be able to help with. She says, Dear Chelsea, I love the podcast and I look forward to listening every week. I'm a longtime listener, but I've never written in before, mostly because I I always knew what you would say and figured I should just get my shit together. But this time I'm truly stuck. I've had my dog since April of 2020 and he was my Covid baby. I was home with him 247 for a year before going back into the office. And ever since I got him, he's truly saved me from the darkest moments in my life. I got him just a couple months before I ended a 10 year toxic relationship with my high school sweetheart. He helped me rediscover life for myself, got me out of bed on my worst days, and reminded me that life is fun and silly and joyful because.

[Katherine]

He is all the responsibilities of a.

[Chelsea Handler]

Dog, by the way.

[Caller/Guest]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Handler]

He is my sole dog and I don't know where I'd be without him, as many dog owners are. I'm obsessed with my baby. From April 2020 to March 2024, he got to do everything with me. We ran errands together, took drives, he slept with me. He basically stayed by my hip at all times. Then I met my now boyfriend, who is wonderful in so many ways. We have so much in common and he makes me laugh like no one else can. We have such a good relationship. But he isn't the biggest fan of my dog or dogs in general. And some days it makes me wonder if this is what I want. Does that sound crazy? Am I choosing my dog over him when I say he isn't the biggest fan? Let me be clear. He takes care of him, helps walk him and feed him, he plays with him. But when I met him, he asked if we could sleep without my dog. I reluctantly agreed. But over time and now that he's moved in, it has grown to my dog not being in the bedroom often at all. I have a one bedroom apartment, so there isn't anywhere to Be other than the living room or the bedroom when we're watching TV before bed or just hanging out or whatever. He asks for dog free time. It's gone from my dog having my company 247 to about an hour in the morning and an hour at night on weekends. It's a bit more. I can tell my dog is upset by this. He sits outside of the bedroom door. Sometimes when I open the door, he's just waiting for me. It breaks my heart because I love my dog more than anything in life. I tried to talk to my boyfriend about it before, and he told me that I can spend time with my dog whenever I want to, but it still sucks. As I'm writing this now, I asked my boyfriend if he could spend some time with us in the bedroom as we watch tv. And my boyfriend went out to hang out in his car alone so I could be in bed with my dog. He reassured me that nothing was wrong, but it hurts me so much because I love them both and want nothing more than to spend time together. For us all to spend time together.

[Caller/Guest]

Alyssa.

[Katherine]

Alyssa.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Let that man go.

[Caller/Guest]

Alyssa.

[Katherine]

What the fuck? He's in his car to avoid being around your dog. That is fucked up.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah. He also went to smoke a spliff, so that's why he also went.

[Katherine]

Thank God. Thank God he had something to do with the car. I mean, that doesn't. I think, first of all, listen, you can't. Your dog is innocent and defenseless. Like, it's so unfair to be around something like that. Like, it's like being with a baby and then abandoning a baby. And for everyone who's listening, who doesn't love dogs, I understand that dogs aren't the same as children, but they're defenseless and innocent in the same way that children are. And so to take away, to like, to basically, it's like punitive. Like, this guy is setting. Setting the tone for how much time you spend with your dog. That was preexisting. That was a pre existing relationship that your boyfriend is now disrupting. That in and of itself is unacceptable in my opinion. Madelaine, I feel like you want to say something.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Look, I feel like if he was allergic and there was an actual issue, then, like, there's something to be discussed there. Like, there's an actual bodily reason why I don't trust people who don't like dogs. I know there's something like, innately, unless he was attacked by a dog at one point, maybe there's something to discuss in therapy there. Like, I want to Give him the benefit of the doubt. But at the end of the day, like, that's your baby. Get the guy out of there. Like, who needs the guy, Seriously?

[Katherine]

And why can't the dog sleep on the floor in the bedroom? Is that not allowed?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Like, in a little dog or on your side? Yeah, I've. I've tried that before, and honestly, more so than him being in the room, I think the. He asked for it initially because I snore really loud, and my dog is a French bulldog, so he snores even louder. And he just, like, can't take both snoring at the same time.

[Katherine]

He should sleep on the floor outside in the living room. You and your dog can snore together in your bed like a couple. Like the couple that you are.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yes, I agree. And you know what's hypocritical, too, is that, like, for example, I went on vacation a couple months ago, he watched him for me, and he slept in the bedroom with him every night. So it's not like he has a problem with him. It's just that he constantly asks for dog free time. And I don't want to be away from him, like, ever. I want to be around him all the time.

[Katherine]

That's weird, though. Like, I dated a guy.

[Madelaine Petsch]

This is getting weirder.

[Katherine]

I know. I dated a guy that wasn't a dog guy. Like, I could just tell. And I find that suspicious as well. I find that to be suspicious. It's like, if you don't like dogs, like, something's off. But I kind of gave him a pass, and he tried. He made the effort with my dog. He would take my dog for walks. Like, he actually made the effort. And I'm like, well, that's all he can do. I can't make. Make somebody fall in love with your dog. Just like you can't make somebody love your child like that you had, you know, before you met them. So I. But I. I do think it's very strange to ask for dog free time. That's. That's like some sort of controlling or weird issue. Something is off with that, especially if.

[Madelaine Petsch]

He'S sleeping in bed with your dog when you're not there. That feels more like a control piece. Like he doesn't want any other attention taken away from him.

[Katherine]

Yes.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Madelaine Petsch]

And it really is honestly mostly just on the weekdays. On the weekends, this isn't a problem. Like, I don't even. He doesn't really.

[Chelsea Handler]

The weekdays are most of your days.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think he asked for a boundary. You tried that boundary Out. And it's time to readjust the boundary. Like, that's not working for you. And I think that's kind of the way to maybe start that conversation again. Like, if he needs to sleep in a dog bed on the floor, fine. But, you know, dogs are our family. And if he can't be in your family, then, like, it's time to reassess some things. But I think he will actually acquiesce if you're just like, look, look, we gotta adjust this boundary. It's not working for me. I need my dog. I need my dog in the room with me.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Like, I really. I have no other problems with this man.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Other than the fact that he is not, like, as obsessed with my dog as I am. And like I said, he takes care of him. Like, he walks him, he feeds him, he even plays with him and stuff. It's just like I said, this dog free time, that is the issue.

[Caller/Guest]

So.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, then if he's great, then he will be able to adjust, you know, and if you need to, like, talk to a counselor about this, but I think you guys can handle.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, I second that. I actually think he's gonna come through.

[Katherine]

Yeah, I think so, too. So just be. You have to reset the boundary. You gave him the benefit of the doubt, and now you have to take it back.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes. Okay.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yes.

[Katherine]

This is a preexisting relationship. You're living, you know, like, he knew he was living with your dog. You have a one bedroom apartment. It's not like you have some huge amount of space for him to roam around. It's unfair to the dog. And you're not gonna do that to your dog anymore.

[Chelsea Handler]

And get a white noise machine if he can't handle the snoring. Like, just, like, blast a bunch of fans in the room. That's what you gotta do.

[Madelaine Petsch]

That's a good idea, too.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

Tell him to wear headphones when he goes to sleep.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, there you go.

[Katherine]

And then tape his mouth shut so he can breathe through his nose. People are loving that. Oh, no, they tape their mouth shut. Yeah. So they can breathe through their nose. Yeah.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'm getting him, like, wax earplugs or something.

[Chelsea Handler]

There you go.

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, well, let us know how it goes, Alyssa.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Yes, I will. Thank you guys so much. It was great to meet you both.

[Katherine]

Bye, Alyssa.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Thanks for calling in. Bye.

[Katherine]

That was easy. We say this as we have two dogs roaming around our room. We're like. I'm like, doug, cover your ears. First of all, yeah, if anyone wasn't.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Like, you sleep outside.

[Katherine]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Chelsea Handler]

Off. I know. It's like when I come to bed and there's, like, my husband and our three pugs, like, taking up the entire bed. I'm like my family. Not that there's any room for me, but it's my family. Okay, so our next question comes from Elle. She says, dear Chelsea, I have a conflict with my friend that I can't seem to get over. My good friend of five years is a gay man. We're both therapists and met at an old job, and we've been very close ever since. We're aligned on the state of the world, politics, all that. He's just moved to a new city. We were voice memoing, texting daily. And even though I appreciated this connection and his friendship, I found his relationship at times to be negative and draining. We're both therapists, and so we both already take on the mental load of the job on a daily basis. I was probably holding in some of these feelings when he texted me a headline about rights being taken away recently. He has a tendency to catastrophize, and therefore, through my own process of taking in daily news content, I've been careful of where I watch or read the news. When he messaged me this alarmist headline, I validated it, but also encouraged him to make sure the source was credible. He seemed to shut down, and therefore I did let him know that I personally was trying to take an emotional distance from all the news headlines myself and needed that boundary. Ever since then, though, our friendship has changed. I noticed an obvious decrease in communication and his attempt to see each other. About a month ago, I told him how I felt that there was distance ever since that day and wanted to apologize for it. I opened up about how I was feeling with the state of the world, which prompted my response to him that day. And while he appreciated my accountability and vulnerability, he said at that moment he questioned whether I was a safe space. I was taken aback by this because I've always been so empathetic. I couldn't believe that one message would make him question his ability to trust me. We ended on good terms from that conversation, and I've seen him once since. Things were fine. I'm still upset that our friendship isn't the same, and I can't seem to not think it doesn't have anything to do with what happened. Or is it just the natural shift of our friendship? What do I do? Work on accepting the new trajectory of our friendship? Know that maybe this was for the best, or do I initiate a conversation again to try and work on the friendship more with love, Elle.

[Katherine]

Hi, Elle. How are you? This is our special guest, Madelaine Pitch.

[Caller/Guest]

Hi. How are you? I'm so glad to be here. Thank you.

[Katherine]

I could totally understand your situation and your friend's situation, because that's not the response that they want to get. You know, when someone finds out about their own rights, it's like me texting. Like, think about you texting one of your guy friends and saying, okay, they're about to overturn Roe v. Wade. And he's like, check your sources. You don't know what you're talking about. Like, it's so personal that I totally understand, but. And now how do you kind of fix the friendship? I definitely think your friendship has been impacted by that. I think it would be if it were in reverse some way. Like, if he was dismissive of your rights, I think you would probably have that same reaction, whether it would play out the same or not. So taking that into account, I don't know, do you address it again? What do you ladies think? Or do you just keep showing up as the friend and hoping to get back to the friendship that you had? What do you think, Madelaine?

[Madelaine Petsch]

I've had situations not similar, but I've had friend falling outs where I've wished that it wouldn't have happened. And I think it feels like it's more about what you feel aligned with. Does it feel aligned to you to keep. I mean, you're a therapist. Is it more aligned to you to continue trying to communicate? Does that feel like it's working, or does it feel more aligned to you? Just, like, to let him come to you when the time is right and show him what the love and support is there? It really is, like, person dependent, I think, especially with the person you're in this friendship with. Like, will they respond better to that, or will they respond better to giving them space and just making sure they know that you love them?

[Caller/Guest]

Yeah. I feel like I've been trying to, you know, ask them how they're doing, how their trip was, you know, like, not be so overbearing. But I kind of get the feeling they've kind of drifted, and I'm kind of like, then I. It forced me to take the look at the friendship as a whole and reflect on it, and I was like, okay, you know what? Maybe it was a lot in general. I did find myself becoming a little frustrated at other things, and I don't want to feel like, there's this underlying resentment in this friendship. I guess I would have handled it. I don't know. Like, I give people the benefit of the doubt a little bit, and especially if they apologize, you know? And that's where I feel like there's still this grudge. And it's just kind of unspoken now, and it's a little awkward. I don't know how it would be when we see each other again. I feel like it's just been continuing this distance. And even when I got Katherine's email that morning, I was thinking, like, maybe the distance is okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, let me ask you this. Before this happened, you know, you've said there was some negativity, and you felt kind of drained. When you were off the phone with this person. After having a phone call or getting a voice memo, did you feel fuller or did you feel more drained?

[Caller/Guest]

Good question. I think I felt more drained, which is something I was kind of thinking about as of lately. I think I felt a little exhausted or a little frustrated at certain times. And that's also sad to kind of think about as well. Cause I do love them a lot.

[Katherine]

Yeah. I think that once you make an apology and you are clear and you meant it, which I'm assuming you did.

[Caller/Guest]

Right.

[Katherine]

You don't really apologize for the same thing multiple times. You kind of have to apologize once, put it out there and see how it's received. That's on them, how they want to receive that. If they get it, great. If they don't, you can't keep apologizing for the same act. You already did that. So I think you have to let this friendship live in this kind of new territory that it's in. You're admitting that it's draining to you. Take the space as a gift. Like, take the space as, like, oh, this is kind of like a little blessing in disguise and look at it that way and just enjoy this time that you don't feel drained by him. And if he comes back to you in, you know, a few months or if it takes a year or whatever, and you guys get back on track, really be conscientious about how you're gonna move forward in the relationship. Because it seems like you did something that shifted the relationship, and that might be for the better in the long run, you know, I'm glad you apologized. You should have. And now you can just, like, deal with it. Like you would tell one of your clients to deal with it like an adult. You did the right thing now. Now you have a different kind of tone in your relationship. That's okay. Don't fight it and don't resist the reality of the new situation and just go with it and just be relaxed about it. Don't put any pressure or any like timelines on it. Just be cool. And I. And then I think you'll have more information in a few more months, like a. About if the relationship is going anywhere or if it's coming back, you know.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And I think weird vibes are like way easier to get past being in person with someone versus like doing your normal voice memos and text and stuff. So maybe it's just like you leave it light until maybe they're back in town or whatever. And then, you know, you go out to dinner and maybe things will be totally fine or you'll kind of get your answer of like now the vibes are still just too weird.

[Caller/Guest]

I think you're right. I think like it would be less awkward, obviously as a group and we're in person and I think because you're.

[Chelsea Handler]

Both therapists, there's like a tendency to want to like over therapize yourselves about this issue. So, like, I think you can let yourself off the hook.

[Katherine]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know, you did your due diligence and all that.

[Katherine]

As a general rule to anyone listening, like, you don't have to keep apologizing for the same thing. People have to be graceful in accepting their apology in order for that to work, for the relationship to work. But I do love that therapists are calling in for advice to Dear Chelsea. I mean, talk about a feather in my cat. Yeah.

[Caller/Guest]

I mean, listen, we can't always take our own advice that we give to.

[Katherine]

You need an outside perspective. Is the best perspective in my opinion.

[Chelsea Handler]

Exactly. Awesome. El. Well, let us know how it goes and what happens down the road. And yeah, we wish you luck.

[Caller/Guest]

Thank you so much. Thank you guys.

[Katherine]

Bye. Have a great day.

[Caller/Guest]

You too.

[Katherine]

Well, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with Madelaine Pitch. From nursing and healthcare to business and it Rasmussen has a range of programs to fit your goals and passion no matter what your day to day looks like. Rasmussen's programs allow you to balance school with life while you pursue your degree. So if you're ready to pursue your education goals, Rasmussen is ready to help you take that next step. Head on over to Rasmussen Edu and check out the opportunities waiting for you. Your future is a bright one. Rasmussen University can help you get there.

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[Chelsea Handler]

Restrictions may apply at Walgreens. We know flu season can feel a little chaotic, so we're going to give you our flu info in a meditation.

[Katherine]

Keeping you calm just like a certified Walgreens pharmacist will do if you're a little needle nervous. So walk in or schedule an appointment today to get up to date on all your vaccines. That's the human kind of help. Walgreens vaccines subject to availability, state, age.

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[Katherine]

If you're looking for a wine that's not just delicious but also a total crowd pleaser, let me introduce you to Josh Sellars. This California wine brand has over a dozen award winning wines. From crisp Sauvignon Blancs to velvety Merlot. Josh Sellars has the perfect wine for every occasion. Serving up a juicy steak at your next barbecue. Josh Sellers Cabernet Sauvignon is the perfect pairing. Unwinding with friends after a long week, you can't go wrong with their Pinot Grigio. With so many delicious wines to choose from, Josh Cellars has something for everyone. Josh Cellars wines are made for sharing with those who matter most to you and each wine is made to exacting standards. So no matter which varietal you choose, you can be confident it will be well balanced and delicious. Josh Cellars is a proud sponsor of Dear Chelsea. Visit www.joshcellars.com Chelsea and join the Wine Club to get 20% off. Please drink responsibly. And we're back with Madelaine.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, well our last question comes from Jamie and she says, Dear Chelsea, I need your help girl. I have a friend Miranda who is a 32 year old virgin and when I say virgin, I mean it. This girl has not even kissed a man. Maybe not even hugged a guy. I wish I was kidding. I used to think that it was sweet how innocent she was, but now I'm starting to worry. I shared a funny story to another friend, Jennifer, of how Miranda has never worn a thong in her life. Jennifer then commented that Miranda's innocence actually showed signs of a person who was sexually abused in their past. After hearing this from my friend, it really got me thinking and analyzing some of the things Miranda has shared with me. Most recently, Miranda had a family event where I helped her choose a nice dress to wear. But her parents, specifically her dad, told her to change her outfit because it, quote, wasn't appropriate. To me, this was very weird. How can a dad tell their 32 year old daughter to change her outfit because it's not appropriate? And mind you, this wasn't the first time he's done this. Obviously this is a sensitive topic, but I'm really worried about my friend. She wants to date guys and finally have her first kiss, but she doesn't even put herself out there. She's on every dating app and can't match with a guy. She's also a horrible texter, so that's no help. I want to help her out and maybe get her a date. But what if my. What my friend Jennifer said is true? Am I overstepping?

[Katherine]

Are they talking about past lives?

[Madelaine Petsch]

Past lives, past lives, past lives.

[Katherine]

Okay, well that's a pretty big leap I need to take from somebody.

[Madelaine Petsch]

As in like, like before they were the version of themselves they are now.

[Katherine]

Yeah, I mean that's a pretty big.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, that's a leap. That's a little bit of a leap.

[Madelaine Petsch]

But I don't think you can jump to conclusions like that about someone's life either, or their past lives.

[Katherine]

Like, let's not get it twisted.

[Madelaine Petsch]

That's a little crazy.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, this overbearing dad that like maybe has some relative undertones.

[Katherine]

Listen, if your father is telling you what to do and what to wear at the age of 32, then you are probably stuck at an age that you were traumatized at, which is probably eight or nine years old. And that's why she's behaving like a young girl who's never been kissed, who doesn't know how to text. These are like young girl attributes. So I think in order for your friend to like, if you wanna be helpful to your friend, you have to get her into like counseling and find a good therapist for her where she can talk to Somebody about what really happened in her childhood and why she's taking direction from her dad as a 32 year old woman.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Even to just like, help her get out of this sort of enmeshment with the dad who's really overbearing. Like. Like she's gotta see somebody to kind of get her out of that.

[Madelaine Petsch]

And that also isn't your burden either. You know what I mean? Like, at the same time, it's like you can love your friend and you can give them all the resources, but you also, you can't force them into therapy thinking they're not ready for true. So it's a really tough balance.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katherine]

But you can always. I mean, there are soft, gentle ways to suggest therapy. Like, hey, I saw a couple things. I saw your father. I thought that was very strange. Just so you know, like, that's not normal or it's not common for men, you know, for people to listen to their fathers about their outfits at your age. It's also unusual. Don't shame her. But it's also unusual that you've never been kissed. It's unusual for you to be a virgin. I'm wondering if you should really have somebody who has no, like, opinions about your life that's kind of removing yourself from the situation to bounce this stuff off of so that you can get a real idea of if something happened that maybe you're not remembering or maybe there's a traumatic event in your life that you need to uncover in any of your lives. In any of your lives. I love. I love jumping to that. I love a friend going to it.

[Madelaine Petsch]

First conclusion is Pat. Must be the past life.

[Katherine]

Yeah. Madeline, did something happen in your past life that you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh.

[Katherine]

That you have this long red hair? Like, it's so presumptuous to say something like that. So don't say that. No, no, no. Okay, well.

[Chelsea Handler]

And tell her she can just use ChatGPT to text boys. I mean, that's, you know.

[Katherine]

Yeah. To learn how to do that. But then she's gonna kill all those water buffaloes, so. Well, Madeline, it was so nice to meet you today. I mean, what a pleasure you are. Yes, absolutely. We loved having you. You know, Madelaine from Riverdale, Sightless and the Strangers Chapter one. But now we have the Strangers Chapter two, which is in theaters. It's happening. And you can also go on Amazon to watch her new rom com, which is called Maintenance Required.

[Chelsea Handler]

Awesome. Thank you. We did it.

[Katherine]

We did it. We're wrapped. Thank you so much.

[Madelaine Petsch]

Thank you, guys.

[Katherine]

Okay, take care.

[Chelsea Handler]

The word of the week is acquiesce to accept something without protest. Acquiesce.

[Katherine]

I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting in February of next year so I will be touring from February through June. I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these. So go get your tickets now. Now if you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into dearchelseapodcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching earchelseapod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert Executive Producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

[Katherine]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Katherine]

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[Chelsea Handler]

This is an I Heart podcast.