Jersey Girls with Debbie Gibson

Summary

Dear Chelsea
Episode: "Jersey Girls with Debbie Gibson"
Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Chelsea Handler | Guest: Debbie Gibson

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Episode Overview

This episode of Dear Chelsea features an engaging conversation with pop icon Debbie Gibson, focusing on her new memoir, “Eternally Electric,” her upbringing in a close-knit family of four sisters, life as an 80s teen pop star, navigating anxiety, career ups and downs, redefining love and independence, and the lasting impact of loss and resilience. The episode combines Chelsea Handler’s signature humor and frankness with Gibson’s candor and insights, while weaving in thoughtful, supportive advice to listener questions about self-worth, family boundaries, and grieving.

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Main Themes

• Reflections on Pop Stardom and Family: Debbie shares stories from her rise to fame, the role of her “momager” mother, and the dynamics of being one of four sisters.
• Mental Health and Resilience: Both Chelsea and Debbie discuss anxiety, panic attacks, and the pressures of public life.
• Career Highs, Lows, and Comebacks: Debbie details her career’s rollercoaster, from chart-topping hits to financial troubles and rebuilding.
• Redefining Relationships and Self-Love: The conversation explores dating, independence, and what it means to find fulfillment outside of traditional partnerships.
• Listener Advice: The second half features listener calls on self-worth after divorce, setting boundaries with judgmental parents, and the journey through grief.

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Detailed Discussion & Key Insights

1. Tennis, Celebrity, and Atmosphere

[02:43 – 06:18]

• Chelsea opens with a rundown of the U.S. Open and explains her love of its convivial, celeb-spotted atmosphere. She compares it to Wimbledon, adding,

  “The U.S. Open is just kind of like, more loosey goosey… I love that vibe. I'm a day person.”
  (Chelsea Handler, 03:43)

• On the excitement of women’s tennis, Chelsea draws a parallel with pop music’s new stars:

  "Our pop stars right now … it's kind of analogous to tennis because there's so many young, great players..."
  (Chelsea Handler, 05:03)

2. Debbie Gibson’s Early Life & Sisterhood

[07:08 – 11:41]

• Debbie discusses the impact of growing up with three sisters and a supportive mother:

  “I love it. And we're all radically different, but like we all connect in some way.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 09:34)

• She describes each sister’s personality, their close bond, and how being one of four girls shaped her.

3. Vegas Living & Independence

[10:32 – 12:18]

• Debbie advocates for the non-Strip side of Vegas living, describing it as open, friendly, and supportive of her health and work-centric lifestyle:

  “Whenever I land there … I can breathe. It just feels open, expansive. There's mountains…”
  (Debbie Gibson, 11:12)

4. The Original “Momager,” Trailblazing, and Industry Gender Bias

[12:34 – 15:55]

• Chelsea highlights Debbie’s role as an early self-directed pop star, managed by her mother, before that was common:

  “You and Tiffany, those were the only two young girls that were out singing. And now there’s… so many young people coming up…”
  (Chelsea Handler, 13:24)

• Debbie echoes,

  "People forget there was no lane. And it had been a good decade since Carole King."
  (Debbie Gibson, 13:48)

• On industry sexism:

  “The men in suits had nothing to do ... They were used to pairing this young girl … with an older male to write her songs. It didn’t make any sense to us.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 14:11)

5. Mental Health, Panic Attacks, and Maternal Support

[15:59 – 21:47]

• Debbie opens up about experiencing severe panic attacks during her rise, long before anxiety was openly discussed:

  “Back then, that wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue. And if you were a young girl in show business, you were most definitely whining if anything was… you know...”
  (Debbie Gibson, 16:25)

• She credits her mother for validating her struggles and refusing to see Debbie's worth undervalued:

  “She always knew my worth.” (Debbie Gibson, 20:33)

6. Career Downturns, Money, and Rebuilding

[22:20 – 25:37]

• Debbie recounts the aftermath of leaving her label, financial missteps, and the lessons learned:

  “We kind of kept that party going probably too long ... And then ... everything caught up to us, really.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 22:27)

• On posing for Playboy, she discusses the illusion and reality of sensational showbiz paydays.

7. Evolving Parent-Child Relationships and Stage Moms

[25:37 – 29:39]

• Debbie reflects on the “complicated” reality of having a strong, involved mother, including tension as the business changed:

  "So, you know, and nobody gives anybody grace in this business. So it was. Or credit, you know, or credit."
  (Debbie Gibson, 27:35)

8. Living on Your Own Terms & Second Acts

[30:43 – 34:33]

• Chelsea prompts reflection on career trajectories, to which Debbie answers:

  “I love where I've landed now… I'm a survivor, and I'm a thriver. I kept thinking I was in a second act, a third act. I'm now in a true second act.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 30:58)

• On not taking herself too seriously:

  “I've done a lot of things that make me giggle. I take what I'm supposed to take seriously seriously, and I don't take the rest seriously.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 34:21)

9. Love, Dating, and the Value of Independence

[34:33 – 45:22]

• Both discuss the modern, “wide-open” approach to love, valuing freedom and adventure over conventional partnerships:

  "I have a desire for adventure. ... I want to move towards a wide open operation, not narrow."
  (Chelsea Handler, 44:03)

• Debbie admits,

  “I'm still a romantic ... I still don't understand how it works, cause I've never fully successfully made it work for any real length of time.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 44:39)

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Listener Advice Segment

Listener 1: “Tracy Needs Her Groove Back” – Self-Worth After Divorce

[45:25 – 49:28]

• Problem: Tracy is struggling with self-esteem post-divorce and menopause, feeling jealous and inadequate.
• Chelsea’s advice:

  "You have to start getting up every single morning and having gratitude about the fact that you're no longer married ... Every major life change is an opportunity for a reset." (Chelsea Handler, 46:27)

• Debbie adds:

  "Sometimes when you step away from romantic love, you're one step closer to your self love."
  (Debbie Gibson, 47:50)

Listener 2: Amy & Christina – Judgmental Religious Parents

[49:33 – 58:12]

• Problem: Amy struggles with her parents' rigid religious views, which create family tension.

• Chelsea’s advice:

  "You don't have to explain to everybody your reasons behind everything … You just don't have to make yourself available to your family for any reason." (Chelsea Handler, 54:41)

• Debbie echoes boundaries:

  "Life's too short to go into situations where you're ... uncomfortable, you know, or you're not aligned."
  (Debbie Gibson, 55:24)

Listener 3: Katie – Grieving a Parent

[62:39 – 69:38]

• Problem: Katie cared for her father during a long illness and asks for help navigating grief and moving forward.
• Chelsea’s advice:

  "You can't fast forward your grief. That doesn't work. It has to work through you. ... Think about a way to live your life out loud in a loud, brave way that will honor your father." (Chelsea Handler, 65:18)

• Debbie empathizes:

  "Give yourself some grace for how hard that is."
  (Debbie Gibson, 68:26)
  And on emotional healing: “I had … years where I didn’t cry, couldn’t cry, and now ... I think I cry every day, but… it’s so good.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 68:54)

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Memorable Quotes

• “The men in suits were used to pairing this young girl … with an older male to write her songs. Because older men really know what young girls in high school are thinking and want to hear musically. Right. It didn’t make any sense to us.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 14:11)

• “I've done a lot of things that make me giggle. I take what I'm supposed to take seriously seriously, and I don't take the rest seriously.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 34:21)

• “I have a desire for adventure ... I want to move towards a wide open operation, not narrow.”
  (Chelsea Handler, 44:03)

• “I still get social anxiety … It's too people-y out there, usually for me.”
  (Debbie Gibson, 21:30)

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Timestamps of Notable Segments

• 03:43 — Chelsea on U.S. Open vibes
• 07:08 — Debbie on her sisters and upbringing
• 13:48 — The “no lane” for young women pop stars
• 16:25 — Debbie remembers early panic attacks
• 22:20 — Debbie describes career/financial downturn and Playboy
• 27:35 — Complicated legacy of a strong “stage mother”
• 34:33 — "My Way": doing things on her terms
• 45:25 — Listener call: Self-worth post-divorce
• 49:33 — Listener call: Boundaries with religious parents
• 62:39 — Listener call: Navigating grief

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Episode Tone

Warm, open, and supportive; candid exchanges mixed with laughter and vulnerability. Chelsea leads with humor and blunt advice, Debbie is self-reflective and encouraging.

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Closing

The episode closes with thanks to Debbie Gibson and a reminder about her memoir Eternally Electric. Chelsea and team reinforce the themes of embracing life's complexities, advocating for one's self, and finding light—even in setbacks.

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For more details, listener questions, or video episodes check Dear Chelsea on YouTube or write in at [e-mail]

Transcript

[Debbie Gibson]

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[Sponsor Voice]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Sponsor Voice]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Debbie Gibson]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

Chelsea. Hi. How are you?

[Debbie Gibson]

I'm great.

[Co-host/Producer]

You just got back from New York?

[Chelsea Handler]

I was at the US Open. I had to go to the women's finals. It was mandatory. I had to see that final match between Anisimova and Sabalenka.

[Co-host/Producer]

Okay, so what do you like about being there? Is it the sports? Is it the sort of CNB scene? It seems like a very sort of, like, Celebi event.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it is more celeb here in US at the US Open than it is at, like, the other Grand Slams. I think there's always celebs, but at this one, it's definitely like, a New York thing. So. I've never been in the Australian Open. I've never been in the French Open. I go to Wimbledon every year for a few matches whenever I could get there. The beginning or the end, obviously, it's better to get there than. Because it becomes more competitive. Yeah. But the U.S. open just has the most fun vibe, really. First of all, it's like. It's so fun because I know a lot of tennis people, so I. Whoever invites me, like, you could go as a. You could buy your own ticket, or you could go as a guest to, like, one of the brands there. Or, like, I went and sat in the President's box for this match since I was invited by somebody there. And then it's just, like, a fun vibe.

[Debbie Gibson]

A.

[Chelsea Handler]

There's drinking. They have honey deuces. Like, every Open has their signature drink, like Wimbledon. It's Pimm's Cups, which are so fun. And Wimbledon is very, very convivial and beautiful, but a little stiffer. You know, you've gotta be a little bit more proper. I mean, I'm not, but that's what they're expecting. And then U.S. open is just kind of like, more loosey goosey. Like, it's just a really relaxed vibe. It's a. I went with two of my friends, Naomi and Serena this time. I mean, I've been. I went with Hannah Berner one of the matches. I went with Juliana Margulies to one of the matches. But then I was. I was like, okay, you know what? I have to go back for the finals. So I flew in for the. Literally the day to go watch the finals in person. But it's just the atmosphere. The atmosphere is just bubbling. And I love that vibe. I'm a day person. I love that, like, day atmosphere. And then. Yeah. And then you're home at a reasonable hour, and. Yeah. I don't Know, Yeah.

[Co-host/Producer]

If you're ever gonna ca at a sports match of any kind, it's something that has a fun crowd. You know, like, I'm not there. I don't know who's playing. I don't know who's winning. But, like, I in high school, spent some time in Mexico and we would go to the baseball games there, and they would, like, light rolls of paper towels on fire and, like, throw them down the stands. Like, it was a very crazy, fun environment. So, like, I'm not there to check out the sports, but, like, I love it.

[Chelsea Handler]

The. As you can see, see, I neglected to mention any of the tennis. But what I do love about the tennis is that it's a level of excellence. You. If you watch the bends, it's the same guys that get past that knock everybody out of the way. It's the same three guys. It's Djokovic, it's Jannik, Sinner, and it's Alcaraz. They knock everybody out of their way. So they are playing at such a high level. So. And with the girls, they're less. Irina Sabalenka is very consistent. She's always in the finals, but the girls are less consistent. Like, there are great. But there are just like our pop stars right now are. There's such a plethora of them, from Charli XCX to Chapel Roan to Taylor to. I mean, you know, Taylor's been around forever, but like, all of these people, Gracie Abrams, you know, that are bubbling up, it's kind of like analogous to tennis because there's so many young, great players that have the potential to be incredible. And they're all getting there by, you know, failure. Failure. Like, you know, they play, they play, they play, then they get knocked out, and then they learn how to get better and they fix their serve or they fix whatever, or they hire a new coach and they become more consistent. So it's kind of really nice. I prefer women's sports. I prefer to watch women's sports. So I just love that level of competitiveness because I don't have that kind of discipline. And it's really cool to watch.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Producer]

We have a very sweet guest today.

[Debbie Gibson]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yes, yes. She's a sweetie pie. She is a pop star. She's a performer, songwriter, and now published author of her brand new memoir, Eternally Electric. Please welcome Debbie Gibson. Okay, here we are with our very special guest, Miss.

[Sponsor Voice]

Miss.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's what they always call me. Miz. Miz. Debbie Gibson is today in studio. Thank you for coming in studio.

[Debbie Gibson]

Hi. So, by the way, I always want to do things in studio. Absolutely. And it's always being like forced upon us to do. Well, we can do a zoom. Like.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, I'm so much better. We've definitely got zoomed ourselves.

[Debbie Gibson]

I love like a good old fashioned LA press trip.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know what? You know what a zoom is good for? Spanish lessons. That's what zooms are good for. You know, that doesn't need to be face to face.

[Debbie Gibson]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea Handler]

How are you?

[Debbie Gibson]

I'm great. Good. I was just saying it's weird. Cause when I was on your E show, I feel like I wore a version, like the 20 years ago version of the outfit I have on today. It involved like low slung pants and I feel like I wore a fedora. I think it was pink.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you always have this hat on, which is the way I don't always.

[Debbie Gibson]

Today's just like, the roots came out. I need a toner.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay.

[Debbie Gibson]

So I put on.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you should have told us. I would have brought one in. I'm sure I have one at my house, even though I don't have a house.

[Debbie Gibson]

See, because you're the same. Cause for us girls who want to stay blonde but are gray and want to do the dark root and then do the blonde, it just never comes out the same way twice. And it's a whole other thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I hate when my hair gets brassy. I hate that.

[Debbie Gibson]

Well, that's what's happening right now. Yours doesn't look.

[Chelsea Handler]

I don't think it looks stripy.

[Debbie Gibson]

And a little. It's got. So the hat is just.

[Chelsea Handler]

Copy that. We're here to celebrate the publication of your very first book.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Which is called Eternally Electric, which is out now. And it takes you through your childhood, which I didn't know you were one of four girls. I think what an advantage that is in life, don't you think?

[Debbie Gibson]

I mean, I loved. I love it. And my late mom, everyone always said, oh, don't you wish we had boys? And she was like, no, why would you?

[Chelsea Handler]

Why? Yeah. Well, once you have one sex, you don't wish for the other sex.

[Debbie Gibson]

She's just like, I love my girls.

[Chelsea Handler]

But it's also like saying to someone, like, who has children, like, don't you wish you didn't have children? Like, Right, right, right, right, right.

[Debbie Gibson]

Once they're out and they're in your.

[Chelsea Handler]

Life, you're not gonna be like, yeah, actually, I wish I could renege on that and not have any children.

[Debbie Gibson]

Also a thing with. Cause you don't have children. Right. And I don't have children. Don't you wish you had children? And I'm always like similarly the fictitious hypothetical children that I don't know. No, I don't miss them.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right, right, right, exactly right. Like I don't. Nobody's living. I mean, well, maybe certain women maybe like feeling regretful or rueful that they didn't have the child that they want. Oh wow, that's a big bug.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's. You know, the freedom in my life is not wasted on me.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Debbie Gibson]

And I know I feel like, I.

[Chelsea Handler]

Feel very free in life, so I'm glad to hear that. And there you go. But talk to me about your sisters because we have a lot of sisters. I love sisters. I'm one of three girls in my family. Oh wow.

[Debbie Gibson]

I didn't know.

[Chelsea Handler]

So yeah, we have three boys and three girls. So I have both worlds to choose to have experience from. But I always find families like that, you know, that are only girls. And especially when there's three or more, I always am like very attracted to that dynamic.

[Debbie Gibson]

I love it. And we're all radically different.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes.

[Debbie Gibson]

But like we all connect in some way. Uh huh. So and what's the like age gap time? So my oldest Sister Karen's turning 60 very, very soon. Which is weird to say cause she's just so like cute and little and fun and feisty and she just joined a sailing club. Oh. Which is my favorite thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's funny.

[Debbie Gibson]

Her and her husband moved back. They're like one of the most happily married couples I know. My sister Karen and my brother in law Jeff, which you don't hear about often anymore. But they've been married for well over 30 years. And then Michelle is 57, I'm turning 55. And then. Or she's 58. 55, 51. We go like two years, three years, four years. So there's like a nine year span.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And are you guys, do you guys see each other pretty regularly or.

[Debbie Gibson]

Well now the three of them are New York, New Jersey, so it's great. Cause when I get there I can see everybody.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. How do you like living in Vegas?

[Debbie Gibson]

They were gonna say, how do you like living in your Kia Sportage?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, well that was my next question.

[Debbie Gibson]

I do have an rv. That's another story. I love living in Vegas. I'm always telling people how great it is to live in Vegas.

[Chelsea Handler]

Really? Tell me because I have a trouble going to Vegas.

[Debbie Gibson]

But you probably never leave. Do you ever leave the Strip?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I had a boyfriend who had a house in Vegas. So then I spent some extra time in Vegas which was even more convincing that I shouldn't spend any long periods of time.

[Debbie Gibson]

And I can say this because my ex boyfriend and I are friends now. But see, I did Vegas his way in a house with him and I was a little like m. And then when I moved into my own house and started doing it my way, I can't explain it, but I just now I love it. I've been there 15 years.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh wow.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean and I live, you know, I love living. First of all, there's anyone who complains about rush hour traffic in Vegas. I'm like, no, it all moves within 10 minutes. Whenever I land there on a plane, I'm just like, oh, I can breathe. It just feels open, expansive. There's mountains and the hot weather is the worst thing about it. But it's not that bad. Every place has something. But I live not far from hiking. I live near target. I'm 20 minutes from fake Paris on.

[Chelsea Handler]

The strip, as I like to say.

[Debbie Gibson]

Like you can have all that if you want it, you know, but.

[Chelsea Handler]

And do you go out in Vegas?

[Debbie Gibson]

I don't a lot. Like I just have my handful of friends and there could be dinners or a show. Uh huh. Like I've seen. I'm sure you're friends with Carrot Top, Scott. I've seen him twice. I do not know, I just think all comedians know each other, right? Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I don't know. I mean I'm sure I've met but I'm not, I don't know him at all.

[Debbie Gibson]

But I love like, I just love that about my life in Vegas. I could text Donny Osmond or Carrot Top and go, can I come to your show tonight?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

And I'll be treated great and hang out like that's my going out.

[Chelsea Handler]

And do you prefer.

[Debbie Gibson]

That's it. I did a. We'll call it a mini residency, an eight show run with Joey McEntire a couple of years ago at the Venetian.

[Chelsea Handler]

Joey wrote the opening forward for your book.

[Debbie Gibson]

She did?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Which was really sweet.

[Debbie Gibson]

Thank you. Yeah, I love him so much. I saw him yesterday.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, cute. Yeah, he's a sweetheart.

[Debbie Gibson]

I love him.

[Chelsea Handler]

I want to talk about your like panic. I like what you talk about in the book a lot. I think a lot of our listeners can relate to that. Not maybe in the terms that you experienced it because you were just starting a career at such a young age and like blowing up. I know my, my bedroom Was lined with posters of Debbie Gibson just ending. I was obsessed, obsessed, obsessed with you.

[Debbie Gibson]

Aw, thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

And to hear you talk about those years in the book, like, about how crazy it was and how your mom was a great momager, you know, and pretty much kind of the first momager.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. Especially in music, you know? Cause, like, Brooke Shields had her mom, who was a manager, agent type person. But yeah, in music. And to be the momager of a young pop singer songwriter, it's a whole thing. It's a very specific thing.

[Chelsea Handler]

Especially now because the landscape is so different. Like, you know, when you were coming up, it was like you and Tiffany, those were the only two young girls that were out singing. And now there's like, this array of, you know, from Taylor Swift to Chap LaRone to Charli XCX to, you know, Gracie Abrams. Like, there's so many young people coming up right now.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right. It's just its own lane now. But there was no lane at the time.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Debbie Gibson]

And people forget there was no lane. And it had been a good decade since Carole King. And even, like, I think about Linda Ronstadt and her theater crossover, that had been a minute. Like, I was kind of. I was at the forefront of my generation doing it. And so the machine wasn't ready for it, didn't know how to do it well.

[Co-host/Producer]

And you were writing all your own music, which nobody else was. You know, your age was doing that at the time.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes. And then the men in suits had nothing to do. Right. By the way, every day I think of a line like, that's a line I wish was in the book. It's not. It's just here on your podcast. But, like, every day I wake up and I'm like, why didn't I phrase it that way? It's so great. It encapsulates. I probably could have saved a whole paragraph by writing that sentence, but that's what it is. The men in suits were used to. We're pairing this young girl who just stands on a stage and sings with an older male to write her songs. Because older men really know what young girls in high school are thinking and want to hear musically. Right. It didn't make any sense to us. And so my mom was literally. My daughter knows how I always channel her whenever I, like, read excerpts from the book or do that. It's so visceral for me. Cause I was there, and she really, truly was like, she knows what this song should sound like. And producing to me was never a mystery. It's. I know in my Head what I want to come out of the speakers. Like, when I watched the Wham documentary, I didn't realize. I think it was. Arif Martin originally produced Careless Whisper. And George Michael was like that. You're making it too complicated. It's simpler. And then he produced it himself because I think ballads almost produce themselves. So I was like, no, no, this song, I don't need a co producer. I don't need a producer. And they were kind of like, what? And I say it in the book, but like the suit shoulders going up and down. I can picture it. But it was kind of nervousness. It was like, what do we do with this? This is new landscape. But that ended up being my first number one.

[Chelsea Handler]

The songs that you wrote.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah, the two. It was my first and my second number one. And it put me in the Guinness Book of World Records. And then I became the youngest and the second youngest. Wow. Within a year. Which is nuts.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

But also shouldn't be nuts.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Debbie Gibson]

You know. Right, right, right.

[Co-host/Producer]

And your mom really advocated for you and was sort of like a bulldog amongst all these, like, men in suits, as you say. But it seems like she was very ahead of her time when it came to your panic attacks and that sort of thing of understanding when you needed to take a step back and not just like pushing you. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes, yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

We'll talk about when that started. Like, when did your panic attack. And now, obviously we know what brought them on. But you talk about it.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. And, you know, you had started to say a minute ago, like, it's different for a lot of people in your audience, maybe, because. But I think, like, anxiety is anxiety. And anybody who's ever experienced. My heart's getting speedy and the walls are closing in and I don't know where my next breath is coming from. And is this a heart attack or an anxiety attack or, like, what's happening? And back then, that wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue. And if you were a young girl in show business, you were most definitely whining if anything was, you know, if.

[Co-host/Producer]

You couldn't go on stage.

[Debbie Gibson]

Too stressful. Right, yeah. So that was. And by the way, that's what causes further panic attacks is like going, no, I'm good, I'm fine, I'm great, I'm fine. Everything great. Instead of being like, this is weird, like, you weren't allowed to say, oh, I'm. So I talk about it in the book when I had this dinner. Now, you know, we're Always schmoozing in show business, and we're still doing it. And that's part of what you do. But it's weird when you're a teenage girl and it's like, oh, you will have a dinner with this. First of all, I didn't want to have dinners. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And why does anyone want to have dinner with a teenage girl? Epstein.

[Debbie Gibson]

Exactly.

[Sponsor Voice]

What.

[Chelsea Handler]

What kind of stimuli are you going to get from that?

[Debbie Gibson]

Exactly. It is that, like, you're the artist and you're the commodity, and the label is delivering that. The. And, you know, my mom was there, but it was still like, she and I didn't go to dinners. Like, somebody in the family cooked, or somebody brought McDonald's home, or like, we're in the suburbs of Long island, like, we're not doing dinners. So I was sitting there and I had the inner monologue. Like, I can remember the inner dialogue, you know, And I was really uncomfortable. And like, what am I talking to this guy about? And I have a show in two hours and I want to be, like, napping and warming up. And like, this is so weird. And this is what you have to do to get a record played. Like, this is so weird. And I just was like, oh, my God, I have to get up from the table. And by the way, I couldn't sit in a restaurant at a table. Not only just cause of the sense memory of it, but I just couldn't sit still for like three years. I mean, it was really. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

In the book, you talk about, like, being like, with your family and having dinner and having to get up and, like, walk away from the table. And at that point, like, the feelings of, oh, God, my family's gonna think I'm a diva. That this is all because I've become famous and I've, you know, I'm hitting it right now. But your mom totally understood that you actually, like, had such anxiety that you couldn't.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes, because it was disruptive. And I was never one to want negative attention. So if anything, like, all I wanted was to blend. I wanted to be one of my sisters at that point. And by the way, I'm gonna circle back around to this, but what you were saying about my sisters and my mom, she empowered all of us. Like, it just was. It was. It was. She was ahead of her time. Because it wasn't even like, waving the flag for. It was just like, well, of course you can do anything. Oh, right, you're a girl. Whatever. But of course, like, let's just do what you do and it was all, you know, who wanted a college path and who wanted a showbiz path and who wanted a fashion designer path. And everybody had a different path. So I love that about her. We just, our visions were kind of far fetched and seemingly unattainable and they happened.

[Chelsea Handler]

And it just happens that whoever, like at that age who like, you know, you need a guardian, you know, so like whoever your mother has to go with you because you can't go by yourself.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's not like going to school. You're like going out into the real world with sleazy men. Like, you have to have a guardian with you.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes. And she really became my manager by default though, because she was good at business and she was the one most present and like, literally and figuratively most present. And the thing I talk about in the book. Cause I also remember this so vividly. I had done the Metropolitan Operas Children's Chorus for three years. And then I started doing like leads and little operas around New York. And there was this opera company that wanted me and they were like, it's $500 for the whole run now. She, for all I know, was making $500 a week managing this doctor's office. Right. Like, that was like seemingly a lot of money. But she was like, that just doesn't feel right because you just finished singing in 12 languages and like you sight sing and like, it's just. She always knew my worth.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

And she said to the producer, like, that's not, you know. And then they tried to hire somebody else. Well, they did hire somebody else. Couldn't cut it. They called me and it was like, can you learn the whole opera in two days for the same $500? And she was like, deal. And that's, you know. And so she just started doing that naturally. You know, she was cut out for that. And so. Yeah. But back to the panic attacks. My favorite subject. I'm naturally an adrenaline girl. And I'm always naturally. Also like a little frag. It's a recipe for that. It's like you're always in fight or flight and you're always like easily triggered. And that's why performing suits me. And that's why I could perform at the time, no problem. Cause my energy was heightened. And so all that adrenaline felt right. But sitting and just kind of being connected and dropped in didn't feel right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I see. Yeah. I think a lot of people probably can relate to that feeling.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. And I still get social anxiety. Like people see me on my Instagram and I'm outgoing, but I have a hard time leaving my house. Once I'm in my house, I'm a little like, oh, you know the thing we see on Instagram with the peanuts, it's too people y out there. It's like too people y out there usually for me.

[Chelsea Handler]

So what is your life like now in Vegas? Like, what's your whole life like now?

[Debbie Gibson]

You know, it's very work centric. Like the balance is definitely off. I'm the person who, if I don't have a rockin relationship or a social life that's cohesive, like I have a very small amount of friends in Vegas. Like here, there's always people to see and groups of people and things to do. But I like that about Vegas for me right now too. Because the last five years I've been rebuilding my health and my career. And honestly, I can't do it with a social life, a big social life at the same time.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Debbie Gibson]

So that's been the focus.

[Chelsea Handler]

Talk about rebuilding your career. Because I know you were in financial trouble, right? And you like, what happened?

[Debbie Gibson]

You know, I left the major label, I Left Atlantic at 21. Left millions of dollars in advance money. And the time it took for like that concept to catch up to me and my mom, that we were indie, like right at the moment I left should have been like, we can't have a Manhattan office and I can't be spending this on clothes and we can't be, we can't have five employees. So we kind of kept that party going probably too long. And we had the big, I call it the house that pop music built. We had it for too long, took too long to sell and like, you know, and then I was moving out and moving into the city and on my own. And so it just everything caught up to us, really.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's scary.

[Debbie Gibson]

It is. And then I did Playboy and when I did Playboy, everybody was predicting, oh, you're gonna make this. I always love saying on the back end. I love saying back end and Playboy in the same sentence. Everybody was counting the money before it came in, which often happens in showbiz. And it just all, you know, the dollars and cents started to not work out.

[Chelsea Handler]

But what did they think you were gonna make money off of Playboy with?

[Debbie Gibson]

Well, cause you get like backend sales. But they didn't put me on the COVID cover. I didn't show enough. And so it wasn't as big of a, like a presence.

[Chelsea Handler]

I see. I didn't realize you get back end when you pose for Playboy.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes. Really? That's actually like the bigger you get. Like a. Yeah, you get a nice payday.

[Chelsea Handler]

But then, no pun intended.

[Debbie Gibson]

That's the be right.

[Co-host/Producer]

Or at least they tell you you're gonna get the back end.

[Debbie Gibson]

And I had never had a mortgage in my life. And my business managers at the time were like, yeah. So I didn't enjoy that. I was running to keep up. And in showbiz, you know. You know, it's like as much or more mostly about what you say no to. Cause the minute you start taking those gigs, it's such a slippery slope. And so. And that was a time of reality. It was a time of like five grand to go pretend you're shopping for this house or this huge apartment that you really. And so I started doing those things, and that just started to feel really bad.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

And my health was suffering. I couldn't work as much. Suddenly I got Lyme. Listen, I either got Lyme disease or I had it for ages. And it came out and took me over when my life was in disharmony. And my mom was. You know, you either in this business change with the times or you age out. And she had her old school mentality. And there was that whole 100% of nothing's nothing mom. Like, it's a different time. Like, you have to. There was just. I felt things chang.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right, Right. The music industry.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, that changes all the time.

[Debbie Gibson]

You know, I always say this to my manager now, Heather, who actually worked for. And she's like, solely responsible for the rebuild that if my mom was around right now, when we're like, quick. Who's like, what's her at? And wait, we got the credit wrong on this. And we're tagging and did you invite to collab? And did we. Oh, God, wait, I gotta delete and start again. Cause the timing. My mom would have been in a constant state of fight or flight, even if she had an assistant doing things for her.

[Sponsor Voice]

Right.

[Debbie Gibson]

You know, she just was of a different time. And she was a. You wrote the song we're protecting. Now you're. I'm giving away. Somebody created the riff in the intro. And we're giving them a piece of the writing and, like, nobody's reading the credits anyway. And who cares? Like, just get the song out. But she wasn't of that. You know, I remember a big fight we had. It's funny now to me, and this was just such a poignant moment. And things are transitioning for a while. Had like a little red piano, little baby grand that Would show up on stages for the. You know, and it was like I was doing a club in West Hollywood, and it was like, I got you that piano. And then I hear directly from the booking agent. Cause people feel they could come to me. Like, your mom raked us over the coals about this piano. And I was like, mom, we're not micing a piano at a club in West Hollywood. It's, like, better to have a keyboard and it's going direct, and we don't need the vision of that anymore. But she was trying, you know, it had to be hard for her because she was there for Madison Square Garden. She got me onto that stage at Madison Square Garden, and she fought for all those things, and she didn't wanna let those things go, you know, and that makes me emotional to think about and talk about. So, you know, and nobody gives anybody grace in this business. So it was. Or credit, you know, or credit. Or credit. And, you know, to think that. So then I talk about this in the book, too. I used to hear from agents that your mom wrote a big, long, emotional email again. And I'm like. Because she can't be neutral about the fact that y' all have me as a name on a list, when she knows what I do, she knows what I do. And I've always done more than people know I can do, right? So it's like, I write, I create. I'm always like, somebody hang a shingle for me. I have a lot of incredible ideas, relevant ideas. But, you know, there's a way to go about making, you know, facilitating that. And she banged her fists on the table because that's what she knew well.

[Co-host/Producer]

And one thing I gathered from your book was, I think this is very interesting is having a parent who has such a strong personality like that. You know, you speak very glowingly of your mother, but then also talk about some of the difficult things you went through. Like, you're talking about right now. And I think right now especially there's a big movement of my parents are either I perfect and amazing, or we're done and I'm cutting them off or whatever. But I think people can be. People are complicated, especially parent relationships.

[Debbie Gibson]

Like, they can be both things, a thousand percent. Like, I even taught. Listen, I spoke to Betty Buckley for, like, three days before I wrote the chapter about her, because nobody wants Betty Buckley to wake up and be surprised about what you wrote about her in her book. And I love her, but she's a complicated woman. And she. And I talked about, like, she was like, deb the whole thing is you had this stage mother that was eventually gonna turn into Mama Rose, like, and I was trying to fast track you, getting there to really. But you were protecting your mother. So you couldn't let go as an actress in that role when she was.

[Co-host/Producer]

Playing her mother, right?

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. She's a gypsy, right? Yes. Because, you know, at one point, there's a sign that says, the mother of Miss Gypsy Rosalie is not allowed backstage. And at one point, Heather, who worked for my mom, so talk about a complicated little trian, took over. And my mom, God lover, would just kind of raise a little hell backstage. Right. And Heather was like, now my job as your manager is to keep you focused and keep that away from you. But it's your mother. Your mother hired me. So, like, what do we do with that? But that was the place Betty was trying to get me to. So my point is, in the book, I speak about both sides of my mom. The side that was a stage mother and the side that was absolutely not a stage mother in the bad sense of the term. But I also say in every soccer mom, every mom who's like, I want my kid to go to medical school, or I want, you know, whatever. The thing is, like, I think every parent is a stage parent in some way, living a little vicariously through maybe some. If their kid has a talent that they didn't have, or just wanting to give them an opportunity they didn't have.

[Chelsea Handler]

And how did your relationship with your mom affect her relationship with your other three sisters?

[Debbie Gibson]

You know, I wrote this scene in a Hallmark movie I did where my sister Denise, who I made the character name Denise, and I talked about, like, I'm so sorry I ruined your childhood. And she was like, you didn't ruin my childhood. I never blamed you for anything. Like, I was. I just was like, deb's doing what she loves to do. But I did take my mom's attention away, for sure. You know, it was like, it was a Deb centric household. And so my younger sister probably got the worst of it. Cause my older two sisters were off to college and all of that. And I think that sometimes they were like, mm, Deb and her concerts. And then they were like, can we get tickets to. Right. You know, everybody also enjoyed it. Like, they all enjoyed the house and the parties and the meeting the people and the perks. But my younger sister Denise was essentially, like, partially raised by a housekeeper. So I think she felt like she missed out on my mom a little bit.

[Chelsea Handler]

That makes sense. And how do you Feel when you reflect on your early success and then struggling later on the way that your career arc has gone. When you think about it, which you reflect a lot on in this book, how do you feel about it? Everything.

[Debbie Gibson]

I mean, I love where I've landed now. When I wrote the book, I was like, wow, I've been through a lot of stuff. I really, at any given point, I could have just bowed out, probably. And then, like, the health challenges was like a free pass to bow out because doctors had me heading in such a different direction, where I literally could have been like, well, I just can't work anymore, like, if I want it. But I always. I'm a survivor, you know, and I'm a thriver. I was like, I don't even wanna just survive. I wanna, like, have a badass second act. See, the thing is, I kept thinking I was in a second act, a third act. I'm now in a true second act. And all the rest was me trying to. Well, I was trying to figure things out. And I was doing a lot of theater because theater was a pure thing for me. Like, you go, you play a role, you deliver, people respect it, you have a great time, you're one of the gang. It was like a clear cut thing that I could do, but at the same time, like, my spirit's rock and roll and I need to do my own thing and my own music. It was on Adam Carolla's show yesterday, and we were talking about this. I said, if only you had a crystal ball to know when. No matter how fast you're dancing, no matter how hard you're shaking the trees, it's not your time. Like, people are not embracing you, the era you came from, whatever. The thing is, it's like numerology, right? It's like, these years are gonna be. Jimmy Van Patten's one of. My best friend and his mom, Pat reads numbers. She basically told me right before, like, the relationship that was gonna, like, it was great. Well, it was great. And then it wasn't. And she basically was like, your life's gonna be. It's just gonna suck for eight years.

[Chelsea Handler]

Did she?

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. And it did.

[Chelsea Handler]

And what Years of life.

[Debbie Gibson]

And then I came out of it. It was like up till four years ago or five years ago.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, wow.

[Debbie Gibson]

Like, the mixtape tour kind of was one of the turning points. Dancing with the Stars was me like, all right, I'm gonna fire up the engines, which I did a little too soon. Like, I wish I was doing Dancing with the Stars now because I couldn't do. Done a lot better. But that wasn't the point of it for me. Then it was like, I'm gonna tell my body that I'm not old and debilitated and sick. Right? Right. I'm just gonna do that. And I made it to, like. It was like I was. I left right after Barbara Corcoran, like, third or something. I love her, by the way. She was amazing. You know what I love about it is I did a lot of things I didn't overthink. Like, even when the sci fi movie moment came up, I was like, I don't have a movie career to kill, so what do I have to lose by battling a giant shark and driving a submarine?

[Co-host/Producer]

I love a cheesy shark movie. I love the Meg.

[Debbie Gibson]

I love all that stuff. I'm weirdly at the forefront of the shark movie craze.

[Co-host/Producer]

I remember this.

[Debbie Gibson]

I'm like, I was guinea pig or pioneer, depending on how you look at it. Right? And my agent at the time, David Shapiro. Shapiro with an A, was like, I got this little movie, and it's like, they're paying. They're not paying a lot, but, you know, if you want to do it, nobody's gonna. It's like a cult thing. It'll be fun. And then the day the trailer came out, it was like a half a million hits on the trailer because the shark was eating the Golden Gate Bridge and I was driving a submarine. I mean, it was just. It was awesome. But my point is, I've done a lot of things that make me giggle. I've not taken myself that seriously. I take what I'm supposed to take seriously seriously, and I don't take the rest seriously.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, that's a gift right there.

[Debbie Gibson]

I feel like it is. And so when I look. When I look at my life, I go, you know, I name a chapter My Way, and all the boys have a rendition of My Way. But I have done things my way, for better or worse.

[Chelsea Handler]

And what about your love life? How do you feel about that?

[Debbie Gibson]

That's like the. Okay, so you might relate to what I'm about to say. The people you want are in my book. The person I've wanted to step up has intercanters off in another journey, we'll say. And then the guys that do things the right way, you're like, they're just not it. Or people are. So like, what I have in my life is either someone DMs me and they've got, like, a little bit of stature or whatever, and they have A future planned. They're like, hope you like to travel and like to. And I'm like, I don't know you. I mean, maybe, but I'm such an organic love person. Like, I have to. It just has to unfold. And I'm at the point where, like I said at the beginning of this conversation, if it's not naturally unfolding, I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing. And that'll appear if and when it's supposed to.

[Chelsea Handler]

And with regard to the person that hasn't stepped up in your life, because a lot of our listeners are trying to navigate in or out of relationships or. Well, mostly out of relationships or they're looking for a relationship. But, like, talk to me about how you. What you decided. How you decided to move away from that when you were getting what you wanted.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right. Well, that's a great question. And have I fully moved away emotionally, is the real question. Cause what happened was this person, like, reappeared in my life, and I was like, oh, my God. I was 1000% sure. I was like, this is my person. I never even thought I would have a person. This is my. And, you know, I'm like, I'm that soul connection person. And I am. I guess you could say the cliche in it is, I see this person's potential or this, but it has not happened. I could kind of sort of. It was a thing that wasn't a thing. That was a thing that wasn't a thing. And I'm very much in touch with this person all the time. And I have friends that say, hey, if you really want to emotionally disconnect, you have to get away from. Completely not communicate. But I'm not that person.

[Chelsea Handler]

So there was no singular event. It was just. It's not a rel. Like, it's something you desire. That wasn't happening.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes. And it's still. It still affects me. So this person still affects me. But I'm getting better with that because I've decided I want this person in my life. I wanna be friends. I wanna embrace the situation he's in. But I'm trying to learn how to not be as affected and to really accept that. Okay, whatever I think could or may or may have or may have in the past or may in the future, what's happening right now is it's not happening. So I'm still working with it. I'm still in the process of it, and I shared it in the book, and people close to me were like, you sure you wanna share this? Because I was well aware that it was the scene in Never Been Kissed and I was Drew Barrymore and I was standing in the middle of that field and it could be like, and he's here with me in the waiting room and we're together. Right. It could have been that from when I was writing it, or it could be this, which is it's not happening. And I wanted to be vulnerable about that in the book because first of all, nobody is all work, work, work. We all have those situations and those feelings. And I wanted to be okay with okay, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't go the way I want that, that's what I'll be talking about. And like you said, so many people are, are feeling that and going through that. And it's honestly, it's just, it's not fun. It's inspired endless songs, which has been great, but it's emotional to even think, oh, I'll record these songs for my next album and then I'll be living that. But that's what we're here for and that's what artists are here for. You know? That's right. But it's tough. Yeah, it's tough.

[Chelsea Handler]

On that note, we'll take a break and we'll be right back with Debbie Gibson. Not to be confused with Deborah Gibson or what was their other pitch for you to go by?

[Sponsor Voice]

Debbie.

[Chelsea Handler]

Debbie. Debbie G. Debbie G. Right, Debbie G. Or just Deborah.

[Debbie Gibson]

Which is so funny that you said.

[Co-host/Producer]

Like, oh, that sounds like a one hit wonder. Cause it absolutely does. But I wouldn't have thought of that.

[Debbie Gibson]

Stacey Q. Debbie G. Yes.

[Co-host/Producer]

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[Chelsea Handler]

And we're back with Debbie G. Okay, what do we got today?

[Debbie Gibson]

But you know, we were talking, we were talking about my love of and I feel like I've heard you say things too about like you want like rendezvous in every port, right? Is that what you're.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, that's what I like.

[Debbie Gibson]

And it doesn't turn into wanting one person to be the person.

[Chelsea Handler]

If it does, then it does. But I don't have the pressure of something has happened to me in my life where I just don't have the same like desire, like I don't have the desire for a partner.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I have a desire for adventure. I need that same same. And when I, in terms of that, I always think about like when I meet someone and I like them a lot, I'll spend more time with them or I'll commit to a relationship. It's not like I can't do it. I just don't. When I think about my life, I feel like to me that feels narrow and all the options available feel like more of a wide open operation for me.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

And I want to move towards a wide open operation, not narrow.

[Debbie Gibson]

I gotcha. I mean, listen, like the reality for me, on one hand I love the idea of partnering up again if it's gonna enhance my life. But on the other hand, this is what I always say when I'm in my kitchen and I'm like throwing chicken across the living room to my dachshunds. I'm like, who's Partnering up in this scenario. And I'm not giving this up. So there is a little bit of that, too. I wake up in the middle of the night, I turn on whatever I want. Exactly. All that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I eat food in bed. Disgusting things. I have disgusting habits.

[Debbie Gibson]

I go, oh, my God, I think I wanna go live in London next year for three months. And, you know, and so, like, I'm beholden to nobody, which is also awesome. But I am still a romantic, so. But I still don't understand how it works. Cause I've never fully successfully made it work for any real length of time without, like, getting sick or, like, all these things that. Because I'm juggling too many things. Cause I also only know how to do everything one way. So if I did it, I think it would have to be, like, seasonal, where I go, all right, let's, like, really spend a lot of time together these three months. And then I'm going on tour, and then maybe you can come out and meet. Like, I don't really know technically how it works. So I have a little bit of that rendezvous mindset. I love the word rendezvous.

[Chelsea Handler]

I like it. I like it being put that way.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yes.

[Co-host/Producer]

Well, our first question comes from Tracy. Tracy says, dear Chelsea, I've been a queen most of my life, but after some career and therefore wealth downturns following a divorce, and my menopausal looks not good, I'm feeling like a loser.

[Chelsea Handler]

Aww.

[Co-host/Producer]

I know I'm not, but feel so down. And I'm feeling jealous of my ex husband's new girlfriend. I hate that about me, but I haven't been able to stop myself. I'm especially worried that my kids might start to like her more than me. I have to stop that immediately. Probably need therapy, but too poor right now. Please give me some advice, Tracy, who needs her groove back.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God.

[Debbie Gibson]

I know.

[Chelsea Handler]

We gotta help her. Oh, Tracy, honey, stop that. You can't talk to yourself like that. First of all, you have to think of your children. You're like their guiding light. You can't start thinking that they're gonna like your husband's ex, husband's wife, or girlfriend more than you like. You have to start writing things down that you like about yourself. You have to start getting up every single morning and having gratitude about the fact that you're no longer married. That's a huge victory.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right? Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

You have children that are healthy and happy. That's a victory. You are capable. So you lost your job. You're going through menopause. That's not the end of the world.

[Debbie Gibson]

It'.

[Chelsea Handler]

Reset. It's an opportunity for a reset. Every divorce, every, like, menopause, every major life change is an opportunity for a reset. That's how I think of it. Like, you know, even menopause, while it's so annoying and gross and so many bad things can happen from it. Like, that's another reason to get stronger, to get fiercer, to work out, to be more healthy, to be more conscious, you know, conscientious about your health, about your food intake, about your alcohol intake. Like, all of the things. But like this pity party that you're having, you can't be a victim. You can't sit around and just feel like shit about yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. And it's up to you to get yourself out of this. So you've got to until you can afford. First of all, you can do betterhelp. That's one of the sponsors of the show. That's really inexpensive therapy. But I would really start by starting to write every morning, like, 10 things that you're grateful for. That's great. And then you mix it in with the things that you like about yourself as a mother, the things that you like about yourself as a woman, the things that you're proud of. Just write those things down to remind yourself of your own innate value. Because we sometimes get lost in your eyes and we forget about our innate value. So I'm here to remind you that you have a lot of it and you are having amnesia 1000%.

[Debbie Gibson]

I wrote a song called One Step Closer with DJ Tracy Young on my latest album. It's not new, but to you, it's probably new, but there's a line in it about love, trust and being enough. And it's one step closer to love. And sometimes when you step away from romantic love, you're one step closer to your self love. And also, I do think, like, I'll echo just sometimes physical. Like, I started boxing recently and going to that boxing gym and being one of the only females there. Like, I'm not amazing at it, but I found it was a way of physically getting unstuck. Cause I got. I get in that emotional ball. Like, it just sounds like you're stuck a little bit. And sometimes I think firing up the physical engines. Absolutely. It's a way to start and you're around people who are like, good for you. Like, go where your fan club is, like, find your people that are gonna be, like you said, praising you, reminding you, remind yourself who you are. But get around the people who remind you who you are too. Yeah.

[Co-host/Producer]

And just to echo the therapy thing, there are tons of support groups online where you can go and like meet other women who are in the exact same position. So go take a look some of those.

[Debbie Gibson]

I know the women that a lot of women are in this I don't Care club. I say be in the care club.

[Chelsea Handler]

I don't get it.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yourself club and keep moving forward.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, right, right. Well, I mean, it's good to not care about what others think, but it's good to take the energy you have towards what others think about you and invest that into yourself.

[Debbie Gibson]

And I always say surrender and relax a bit, but not to a point.

[Chelsea Handler]

Where it's, you know, put that over the hat. I mean, you can do.

[Debbie Gibson]

Well.

[Co-host/Producer]

Our next question comes from Amy and she is joined by her friend Christina for moral support. And also she's referenced in the email. So her subject line is Judgmental parents and seven siblings. Amy says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing because I could really use some guidance on how to deal with religious parents who are very intense and judgmental, especially when it creates tension between siblings. For context, I have seven siblings, all of us adults now, most living in different states. We all love each other, have stayed close and talk on the phone, in the group chat regularly. Although there have been countless examples of my parents demonstrating the opposite of the Christian Catholic values they claim to so strongly follow, the most recent offense was a couple weeks ago. My parents refused to help my best friend in a tough position only because she's been divorced. I am too though, lol. Although I passionately disagree that is their right. But then they continued giving their opinion I didn't ask for on her co parenting arrangement, which is amazing. After a lot of hard work, they claimed it went against their beliefs and directly insulted her parenting choices. It felt cold and unfair and it stirred up a lot of feelings for me, mainly anger. I'm no longer religious, but some of my siblings still are, though not nearly as extreme as our parents. We all have different relationships with them and with faith, and I feel stuck in the middle. I don't want to cause drama or make anyone feel attacked, but I also don't want to keep swallowing my frustration and biting my tongue when something feels wrong. It was a lot easier when my parents moved out of State in 2020 following a cult leader. That's another story in itself.

[Chelsea Handler]

Sounds like it. Jesus.

[Co-host/Producer]

I would keep the phone calls to a minimum and kept the topics light. Just a couple months ago they moved back After a falling out with said cult leader. So now I can no longer hide behind a quarterly phone call. How do you speak up and set boundaries without alienating your family or upsetting your siblings who are trying to keep the peace? Amy and Christina.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, girls.

[Debbie Gibson]

Hi.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is our special guest. Debbie Gibson's here today.

[Debbie Gibson]

How are you?

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Good, thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can't believe your parents broke up with their cult leader. That hardly ever happens.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

I know, I know. It was kind of crazy. I.

[Debbie Gibson]

We.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

We kind of anticipated it, but we're still shocked that it actually happened.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I was joking. I mean, there's a lot of breakups that happen with cult leaders. But I mean that, yes, your parents sound like they're very far gone. And I would not even be able to exist in this world in this ecosyste, because I would not be able to tolerate that. So kudos to you for even being able to have any sort of control over your emotions or outbursts or defense of your brothers and sisters, which I think is completely reasonable. I'm not a peacekeeper. I think it's important to express yourself. You know what I mean? And I think it's really important to stand up for people when they are like the situation you described about them insulting your sister's parenting, not friends.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

It's actually my best friend.

[Chelsea Handler]

Your friend's parenting?

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

She's here with me, yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

Oh, okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

So that's the friend. Okay, great.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Yeah, like, yeah, she. She's here with me.

[Chelsea Handler]

And so what happened?

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

So it ended up where it just was let go and nothing ever really. I never said anything.

[Chelsea Handler]

What did they say? What. What did they say to her? You.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

She said. My mom said it made them feel really uncomfortable to have my best friend and her ex husband and their son just stay at their house. They had a baseball tournament and they were just going to sleep over for a night. It would have worked out really well. They were. My parents lived right there and they said no, that she couldn't stay with them on the basis that she was divorced and it would be confusing for her child.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, that's really stupid.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

But her, I mean, they're both amazing parents. They travel to, you know, his travel games together, and that's the only reason they were, you know, together. And their son is perfectly happy and fine.

[Chelsea Handler]

Of course. Of course he is. But you're dealing with unreasonable people. I mean, your parents just got out of a car cult, so you're not going to be able to reason with them. You know what I mean? But like, and it's not Your job to keep the peace. Like, if you don't want to deal with that or if you don't want to be around them, like, where are you at? Do you want to be with your family or do you want. What are your goals here? You want to stand up for yourself or. And your friends, but you don't want to cause drama within the family?

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Yes, I would say that I. I don't typically have a problem standing up for myself or especially when it comes to my friends. I have a way better time standing up for other people than I do myself. But the problem comes when it's actually when my siblings want to get together with my parents or like, just after that happened, my sisters wanted to go visit my mom for Mother's Day. And I was so upset that I didn't want to go. And it caused some problems there because.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you can have boundaries without making it dramatic. You don't have to explain to everybody your reasons behind everything. If you don't want to go because you're upset with your parents, you're like. You could just as easily say, I have plans, actually, I have a lot of work to do. I. I'm behind on this. I already made plans. I didn't know it was Mother's Day, and I committed to going to this. Like, you don't have to bring people into your reasoning if that's what's going to create the drama. You just don't have to make yourself available to your family for any reason. You just don't have to. You don't have that responsibility. You have enough siblings that they could fucking pick up the slack anyway. You know what I mean?

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Like, thankfully they do with having children because they all have a thousand. I have zero.

[Chelsea Handler]

So it doesn't have to be some huge fight. My family thinks I'm so dramatic. I'm like, I'm not even telling you guys anything. I'm just withdrawing. Withdrawing. I'm withdrawing. I don't have the stamina or the bandwidth to deal with this. I don't have a desire to deal with this. And so I just removed myself from the situation, you know? And if they ask, I explain. But I'm not creating drama. They can think I'm creating drama, but actually me showing up would be creating more drama. So I am all for you. Like, having boundaries and not explaining yourself. You're an adult woman and, like, you know that them saying that about your friend, yes, that's upsetting. But, like, also, so you kind of know what you're dealing with. With Them, So don't ask them for favors like that.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right. I wouldn't want to combine your beautiful friend's family with that energy anyway, so just, like, probably for the better. I really have that. Like, I have that policy in my household where you're just not. You have religious beliefs and it's against the lgbtqia. You're not speaking that language in my house. Like, it's not happening in my house. I'm not disowning all those people because there are people even in my family, they were raised a certain way, and it's religion and it's whatever the triggers are from whatever they went through in childhood or whatever. But I agree with Chelsea. Like, it does. You don't need to keep it all in your airspace. You know, just. I think life's too short to go into situations where you're. You're uncomfortable, you know, or you're not aligned.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

I think that's what I struggle with the most. Because it was always, you know, growing up. Everyone believes the same things. Right?

[Debbie Gibson]

Right, right, right.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

And then when somebody does something different.

[Debbie Gibson]

Right. And that is hard. You wanna be one of the gang, but you don't wanna be one of the gang at the expense of feeling like you're betraying your friend. Or if it is a day where you're like, eh, I can deal with whatever their beliefs are, it doesn't really matter. Then show up.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or betraying yourself. Like, I. You know, it's like, you have certain principles. We all do. Like, if you're a principled person and you're like, this is. I don't wanna be around this. I'm sorry. I don't agree with this. I don't like it. It makes me feel bad. I actually feel bad after being around it. Then. Then you're taking care of yourself.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Yes. I think you hit the nail on the head. There is. Like, it's okay that I don't have. No one really has to know why I do things or like.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Just the fact that it helps me and it doesn't make me feel good or comfortable is enough is enough.

[Debbie Gibson]

A no is enough. Right. And your friend. What's your name? Name. The friend.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Christina.

[Debbie Gibson]

Christina. Hi. And I hope you don't feel bad. Exactly. I was gonna say I hope you don't feel bad or take anything personally because it does sound like a whole rationale that's not in keeping with.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Yeah, no, I'm. I was raised Catholic and. But no, like, cult type situations, like.

[Debbie Gibson]

Most people don't encounter that. Don't they? No.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

That's kind of a unique situation. It's a unique situation how upset she was. And I'm like, honey, I'm like, it's okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

She's like, I didn't even want to.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Tell you because, like, I felt so bad that they said these things and made these judgments about you. And I was like, listen, you couldn't.

[Co-host/Producer]

Have hit it for me anyways if.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

You wanted to because we've been best friends for how long? Like, I would know something was up. And I don't take that personally because if people don't like me, people don't like me.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, good. Good for you.

[Debbie Gibson]

Good for you.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

The way I fly a mirror, the way I choose to parent, it works for me. It works for my child.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

And if no one else likes it, well, I'm sorry. Yeah, it works for us.

[Debbie Gibson]

Good. Good for you.

[Co-host/Producer]

All right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. Well, I think we solved that problem.

[Amy or Christina (Caller)]

Yes. Thank you so much. I needed to hear that. Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay. Have a good day, girls.

[Debbie Gibson]

Thanks, girls.

[Chelsea Handler]

Thank you so much.

[Debbie Gibson]

Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye. I am so sick of religion. I cannot express it enough. I am so fucking sick of it.

[Co-host/Producer]

Okay, should we take a little break? And we have one more question to wrap up with.

[Chelsea Handler]

We'll be right back with Debbie. Katie Gibson. I want to talk about something deeply personal. My feet. Are you excited yet? I've been wearing ultra running shoes lately and honestly, life changing. They're now my go to for everything from runs to hikes to dog walks to airport sprints, you name it. They've got extra room up front so your toes can actually spread out and move the way that they're supposed to, which is way better than most running shoes that cram my toes together. Plus, the lower heel drop means your stride feels more natural. It's like my body finally went, oh, this is how we're supposed to move. Move. They are crazy comfortable. And yes, they help me chase that runner's high. You know, mama loves her dopamine and feeling strong and actually wanting to work out. So if you're getting into running, getting back into it or just want healthier feet so you can get on a feed finder. Altra is where it's at. Find them at altarrunning.com and use code Chelsea for 10% off your order. That's a L T R-A running dot com. Stay out there.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

The key to good skin is using natural ingredients in your skincare products. One surprising ingredient that can leave you glowing is seaweed. Ondaria Seaweed is the not so secret.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Chelsea Handler]

Seaweed is a nutrient dense superfood packed with vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that help replenish the skin's moisture barrier and keep skin looking healthy. I love a lightweight body oil and osea's is never greasy or heavy. It sinks right into the skin so you can get dressed and go about your day. It feels like a little moment of.

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[Chelsea Handler]

And with osea, you never have to choose between your values and your best skin. This luxurious body oil visibly firms and makes your skin feel more sculpted and toned. See and feel the difference after just one use. With the powers of undaria seaweed harnessed in every bottle. Get healthy, glowing skin for summer with clean vegan skin and body care from Osea. Get 10% off your first order site wide with code [e-mail] youm'll get free samples with every and free shipping on orders over $50. Head to O S eamalibu.com and use code Chelsea for 10% off. And we're back. Sorry, it's freezing here right now.

[Debbie Gibson]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. I'm always like nightmare about it.

[Debbie Gibson]

We're rolling so hard today that we all forgot my hoodie in the car.

[Co-host/Producer]

Oh, well, you look cozy.

[Debbie Gibson]

This is nice.

[Co-host/Producer]

Well, our last caller today is Katie and her subject line is help for a grieving daughter.

[Debbie Gibson]

Daughter.

[Co-host/Producer]

Dear Chelsea, I know sad subject line, but I know you'll have some good advice for me. I'm a 36 year old woman and I recently lost my dad to a battle with breast cancer. It's been a long two years for me because for the last year and a half I was his full time caretaker. I had to quit working and move home with my parents to take care of him while also trying to live life, which was nearly impossible to do. I have zero regrets about doing this and I'm grateful I was able to spend so much time with him and my family before he passed. But now I'm in the dreaded grieving phase where I have to figure out how to keep moving forward while also finding myself again. Do you have any advice to share on how you've worked through the grief of losing a parent and tips on finding yourself again after going through tough shit? Thanks, Katie.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Katie. Say hi to Debbie Gibson. She's our special guest today.

[Katie (Caller)]

Hi, Katie, nice to meet you.

[Debbie Gibson]

Nice to meet you.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm so sorry about the loss of your father and what a wonderful act of love you gave him by being by his side for those last two years and everything that you did for him. I mean, that's beautiful. And you should be really proud of yourself for like, you know, going the distance with him. What I would say is first, like, first of all, grieving is completely natural. I can't compare it to my grieving my father because I was so ready for him to die. So that's a two separate situation. But my mother, I wasn't ready for her to die, Right? So I can relate on that front. And I know you weren't ready for your mother to die, but I think you have to accept that there is a state of grief and then that's okay. Like you're okay. You can't fast forward your grief. That doesn't work. It has to work through you. And you also have to say, like, you have to wake up every day and remember, think about what your father would want for you because he doesn't want you to suffer. And you have to think, like, take him with you. His spirit is with you always. He's been such a big part of your life that even though he's not physically here, he is spiritually a part of you. He will always be a part of you. And then the part of, like, building back your life and getting through this time is by remembering what. Remembering that and remembering what he would want and living with him in spirit. Not living for him, but living with him in mind, you know, like, what would my dad want from me? Your dad wants you to be happy. Your dad wants you to be successful. Your dad wants you to be selfish about certain things, you know, to make the best life for yourself. So I wouldn't judge yourself so much for the grief. I would just really try to move forward with, like, the knowledge that this is normal. You are normal. Everything's fine. Fine. Everything that you're feeling is fine. And that you want to think about a way to live your life out loud in a loud, brave way that will honor your father.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah. You sound just like my therapist. Great, great advice. Yeah, I think it's more of, like, accepting that it's normal and being okay with emotions because, like, you know, emotions are rough. It's very isolating. Right. When you don't know other people that kind of go through the same thing. And it was so long and such. It's good. Ashkenazi Jew jeans is what got him.

[Chelsea Handler]

So, you know, if you're struggling with your vulnerability and being emotional, like, first of all, or your emotions, you should go online and find a group of people who have just lost their parents. Go to a support group so that you can sit there with people who are dealing with it and, like, fucking, let it rip. Let it out and cry. And, you know, like, I can see you're about to cry right now. Just cry. Let it go. It's okay. You want this out. Like, if you keep everything bottled up, it's just gonna come and get you anyway.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And so is that the part that you struggle with the most? Like, letting your emotions out?

[Katie (Caller)]

Oh, for sure.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Katie (Caller)]

I felt super, super related to your story when you said you were, like, crying over trying to open a fucking orange during your, like, therapy session. And I felt. I was like, if I don't go to a therapist in six months, I'm gonna be, like, exploding over trying to open an orange. You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Handler]

You're right.

[Katie (Caller)]

So I felt super related to that story. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you're in therapy. Therapy.

[Katie (Caller)]

I am, but Friday's my last session because she's actually moving away so I'll have to find a new therapist. But I did go to therapy. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Which is helpful because of your dad's death.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was like, I'm not. I'm gonna completely avoid it. I'm very avoidant. I'm like, just kind of like, stay busy. Stay busy and just kind of. You'll go through it and get over it. And then I think she's helped a little bit. Kind of like be cool with having emotions, because I think that's the part of, like, grief. You're like, okay, that's. That is normal.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And also this invulnerability that we create when we're not allowing ourselves to be emotional will end up blocking other relationships in your life, intimate relationships. And, you know, like, you wanna be vulnerable so that you're accessible. Like, I had a therapist once tell me this was about, like, the girls in my life, these young girls that say, like, as long as you can cry, you're accessible. Like, then we can get to you and you're recoverable. As long as you're vulnerable enough to be. Be emotional, then we can make inroads, make progress. Yes.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So remember that. And then focus on getting a new therapist and talk and be really. Obviously you're going to be forthright. You're being forthright to me and right now to all of us. But focus on really working through your emotions and letting it out. You know, just really have that be your goal in your father's honor.

[Katie (Caller)]

No, that's. That's great advice.

[Chelsea Handler]

Because you'd be surprised. Once you do let it out, then it's out. And it usually doesn't last for, like, you know.

[Debbie Gibson]

No, I. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You're, like, holding on so tightly. So tightly. So tightly. And for what? Like, once you cry in five minutes, you're like, okay, that felt good.

[Debbie Gibson]

I feel better all the time these days. I had, like a period of years where I didn't cry, couldn't cry, and now, I mean, I think I cry every day, but. Yeah, it's so good. But it also feels like. Cause you. You did commit to his. In his final. What, two years? It was.

[Katie (Caller)]

Yeah, about two years.

[Debbie Gibson]

And how long has it been now since he's gone?

[Katie (Caller)]

Probably eight months.

[Debbie Gibson]

Okay.

[Katie (Caller)]

It's super new. Yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah. And I would think because that was your focus for two years, too, that even becomes more. You're kind of intense. You're transitioning out of being that caretaker and trying to kind of find your own rhythm in your life again. So that's Gotta be really hard. So give yourself some grace for how hard that is.

[Chelsea Handler]

And honor the moments where you are feeling emotional. Like when you have a moment and you're feeling it, go to your car, go to your. Go wherever you can have some privacy and let it out and honor that. Don't try to push it away. Don't try to keep busy. Like, even if you're out with a group of friends, say, and all of a sudden you're overwhelmed with emotion, if you don't feel comfortable just being honest with them, go outside, let it out, and then come back in and be like, oh, I got a sad email. Or whatever. If you don't want to share it with other people, but don't fight that. Those feelings, because it doesn't get you anywhere.

[Katie (Caller)]

I agree. I totally agree. Agree.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, but make sure you get that therapist. Okay. Make sure you get a new one.

[Katie (Caller)]

I know I need a new one. Friday is my last sesh, so I'm hoping if I. To get another.

[Debbie Gibson]

I have a good one. We can get you his number one. He's an older fella. I like to call him. Like, he's old, but he's like, so he's a channeler. He's sharp, he's amazing.

[Katie (Caller)]

Love it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Love it. Okay, well, thanks for calling.

[Katie (Caller)]

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, take care.

[Debbie Gibson]

Bye. Bye. I was trying to sing right after, like. Cause I had shows and I had all these anniversary shows, and it was so tied to my mother and singing and grieving. It's not a good combo, is it not. It's like you're crying and everything's like you're.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yeah.

[Debbie Gibson]

Stuck right there. And you're like. And let me sing this song that my mom helped promote. And she's gone and. Yeah, it was intense.

[Chelsea Handler]

Very intense, I would imagine.

[Debbie Gibson]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Her book is called Eternally Electricity. Her name is Debbie Gibson, so buy yourself a copy. Thank you. Debbie Gibson. It was so nice to see you again.

[Debbie Gibson]

This is so much fun. Yeah, so much fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

I put up new Vegas dates, by the way, for next year. This year I will be there. November 1st and November 29th. Those are my last two dates this year. Then I start up again. January 31st, March 7th, April 18th, and May 30th. And tickets are now on sale for all of those dates.

[Co-host/Producer]

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write in to dearchelseapodcastmail.com find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching eercelseipod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert. Executive producer Kathryn law and be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com legends.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Debbie Gibson]

This is an I Heart podcast.