Night Thoughts with Kumail Nanjiani

Summary

Dear Chelsea — “Night Thoughts with Kumail Nanjiani”

Podcast: Dear Chelsea
Episode Date: January 1, 2026
Host: Chelsea Handler
Co-host: Kathryn Law
Guest: Kumail Nanjiani

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and hilarious New Year’s edition, Chelsea Handler is joined by award-winning comedian, actor, and writer Kumail Nanjiani. The episode dives into Kumail’s emotional new stand-up special, Night Thoughts, delving into masculinity, grief, therapy, cultural baggage, relationships, and vulnerability. Together with co-host Kathryn Law, they answer listener questions about relationships, boundaries, and tipping etiquette, all while maintaining the show’s signature blend of sharp wit and genuine insight.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Welcoming Kumail Nanjiani, New Year’s Banter, and Standup Special

• Kumail’s Big Year
  Kumail’s special Night Thoughts is Golden Globe-nominated and recently released on Hulu. Both Chelsea and Kathryn express admiration for Kumail’s emotional candidness and unique style.

  • Chelsea Handler: “He’s probably now one of my favorite comedians, after watching his new special and after spending time with him.” (04:25)

• Chelsea & Kumail's Comedy Connection
  The two reminisce about a recent shoot with Kevin Hart, Keegan-Michael Key, and the dynamics of working (and drinking) with fellow comedians.

  • Kumail: “Kevin Hart… he’s not even a celebrity… And then you’re there, and the entire time you are just picking on him. It’s so funny.” (06:55)
  • Chelsea: “He really enjoys the abuse.” (07:12)

• On Stand-up Credibility

  • Kumail: “He’s a true comedian… He’s not like an actor who does stand up. He’s still a stand up.” (07:22)
  • Chelsea: “He really wants other people to succeed in stand up… He enjoys watching it.” (07:47)

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2. Kumail’s Transformation: Fitness, Body Image, and Motivation

[Time: 10:07–13:44]

• Building a Marvel-Caliber Body

  • Chelsea: “How long did it take you to acquire that body? Because you had to do that for your superhero movies, right?” (10:34)
  • Kumail: “That took about a year and a half. But when it really went nuts was the pandemic. I worked out about four hours every day… it was the only thing I could do to feel progress.” (10:39–11:06)

• Fitness as a Lifeline

  • Kumail: “It’s really the thing that kept me tethered to sanity.” (11:23)

• Strength, Self-Limits, and Surprise

  • Kumail: “We limit ourselves all the time. With working out, you realize how much of those limits are just the way we look at ourselves.” (12:07)

• Sex Life with New Physique

  • Chelsea: “Do you guys have more sex now that you have a bigger body?”
  • Kumail: “No, we have the same amount of sex, which is a very good, healthy amount, but she does say it’s like fucking the corner of a building.” (12:38)

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3. Emotional Vulnerability, Grief, and Therapy

[Time: 14:07–24:06]

• Grieving His Cat, Bagel

  • Kumail: “She is not with us anymore… she was 17, she led a great life.” (14:52–15:01)
  • Chelsea: “I don’t have time for grieving. I want to transfer my love to another person or dog immediately…” (15:37)

• The Many Layers of Grief

  • Kumail: “She’s the first pet I ever had… It was always the three of us, you know.” (16:33)
  • “I don’t think my… people will be like ‘oh, she’s still with you’ — I’m like, she’s not. Her memories are with me, but there’s no spirit around.” (16:33)

• Emotional Release in Comedy and Acting

  • Kumail shares the surreal experience of performing just hours after Bagel’s death, and how dedicating the show to her changed his performance.
  • Kumail: “I had this feeling… I owe it to her to be funny today. And then that went great.” (18:00)

• On Accepting Sensitivity, Anger, and Therapy

  • Kumail: “I’m the same person I was when I was 14. I’ve always been sensitive… I have to accept that my feelings get hurt very easily.” (19:31)
  • “All of that [anger] came out of not being able to address the fact that I was sensitive… that anger was something I didn’t start working on until I was in my thirties.” (20:32)
  • Chelsea shares her own parallels, recounting how her suppressed grief over her brother fueled her anger (24:19)

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4. Gentleness, Masculinity, and Intergenerational Trauma

[Time: 24:06–30:51]

• Strength in Vulnerability

  • Chelsea: “For many of us, anger is… the emotion you are comfortable with. Because then you’re like, oh, okay, I’m protecting myself…”

• Intergenerational Trauma

  • Chelsea: “I was reading this book recently, and it was talking about intergenerational trauma… that’s too much for us to deal with in one lifetime.” (26:42)

• Reluctance to Therapy in Past Generations

  • Kumail: “To a lot of people, therapy’s a defeat. And it’s really not. It’s just what is required.” (27:59)

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5. Couples Therapy, Intimacy, and Relationship Habits

[Time: 28:51–33:55]

• Patterns from Early Relationships

  • Kumail: “We realized… that as a couple, we were stuck in the same patterns from the beginning of our relationship. She basically makes sacrifices for me… and I feel like I need to control her so she won’t get sick again.” (30:54)

• Trust and Radical Honesty

  • Kumail: “Now the goal between us, truly, is 100% transparency… everyday we had to share three vulnerable things we had not told each other.” (32:23)
  • “Saying it out loud takes its power away… inviting another voice into the conversation to counter the negative self-talk was really helpful. She can bring perspective, you know?” (33:23)

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6. Current Projects and Professional Growth

[Time: 34:03–37:58]

• Ella McKay and Fallout

  • Kumail is excited about Ella McKay, a new film by James L. Brooks, and joining season two of Fallout.
  • On reaching out for opportunities: “I just made this decision a few years ago… I’m just going to be shameless about this. I asked directly. If they don’t want you, they won’t put you in.” (35:33)

• Evolving Confidence

  • Kumail: “I trust myself to be able to learn things… because I know I can work really hard… My confidence comes from my ability to learn and my desire to learn.” (36:31)

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7. CALLER ADVICE SEGMENT: Relationships and Cultural Complications

Caller: Dylan (28), in a relationship with a Punjabi man
[Time: 42:12–55:53]

Scenario

• Dylan dates a man who is secretive, married (for documents), and culturally unable to introduce Dylan to his family. There are issues with the dog (partner dislikes dogs, possibly for cultural reasons), and the partner is distant, working seven days a week.

Notable Exchanges

• Kumail provides deep insight into the cultural baggage around family, secrecy, and pets for South Asians:
  “We don’t have dogs as pets… that’s very, very rare. It took a while to reset that relationship for me.” (44:40)

• On secrecy and distance:
  “There are so many things that I can’t be honest in front of my parents about… it’s kind of impossible. So for him, coming out, you know, that’s a personal journey.” (47:05)

• Kumail compassionately points out: “A lot of this behavior has nothing to do with you. He has some personal growth to do, and a lot of cultural stuff to deal with… You decide whether you want to hang around for that.” (50:43)

• Chelsea underscores boundaries: “Your dog is not going anywhere. And… for you to be upset and him not able to… deal with your upsetness, like you crying—can’t be a reason for him to hang up. Write down boundaries rather than just talking about it… There are some red flags here.” (51:10–53:35)

Memorable Advice

• “Just because I know why someone sucks doesn’t mean they don’t suck.” — Kumail Nanjiani (54:05)

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8. CALLER ADVICE SEGMENT: Tipping Etiquette

Caller: Regina (tipping conundrum with her father) [61:10–67:02]

Scenario

• Regina’s father tips poorly at restaurants despite being able to afford more. She tries to discreetly compensate, but is caught telling the server she'll be back with more. Is she in the wrong?

• Chelsea Handler: “You should not be apologizing to your father for his bad tipping… Every time you go out to dinner with your father, take out a $20 and go, dad, you’re a terrible tipper. I’m sorry. Like, it’s embarrassing. That’s the truth.” (66:33)

• Kumail: “Tip is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe.” (67:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He really enjoys the abuse.” — Chelsea Handler on Kevin Hart (07:12)
• “It’s like fucking the corner of a building.” — Kumail Nanjiani on what his wife says about sex post-Marvel body transformation (12:38)
• “I have to accept that my feelings get hurt very easily.” — Kumail Nanjiani (19:31)
• “[Anger] is just the jacket that your fear or sadness wears to protect itself.” — Chelsea Handler (24:06)
• “Just cause I know why someone sucks doesn’t mean they don’t suck.” — Kumail Nanjiani (54:05)
• “Tip is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe the restaurant.” — Kumail Nanjiani (67:02)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Meeting Kumail and Comedy Talk: 04:25–08:50
• Fitness, Body Image, and Emotional Growth: 10:07–13:44
• Grief, Therapy, and Sensitivity: 14:07–24:06
• Masculinity, Anger, and Family Trauma: 24:06–30:51
• Couples Therapy & Radical Honesty: 28:51–33:55
• Upcoming Projects: 34:03–37:58
• Relationship Advice Call (Cultural Issues): 42:12–55:53
• Tipping Etiquette Call: 61:10–67:02

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Tone & Language

The conversation is bold, deeply honest, and peppered with sharp humor. Chelsea’s directness is balanced by Kumail’s vulnerable storytelling and sharp introspection; humor is ever-present, even in heavier moments. The episode moves seamlessly between light-hearted banter, reflective insight, and practical advice—hallmarks of Dear Chelsea’s appeal.

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Listen If You Want…

• Candid talk about vulnerability, therapy, and masculinity from a leading (and hilarious) South Asian voice
• Guidance on navigating cross-cultural relationships (from someone who’s lived it)
• A peek inside the emotional process behind award-worthy standup
• Unfiltered advice on love, family boundaries, and knowing your own worth—plus the art of proper tipping

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Kumail Nanjiani’s special, Night Thoughts, is streaming on Hulu.
Chelsea Handler’s High and Mighty Tour runs February through June.

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Kathryn Law]

I'm hoping it's nice and frosty in Whistler. It is not frosty Here in la.

[Chelsea Handler]

It is. It's nice and frosty. Unfortunately, I have to head back to LA today and leave Whistler, but that's okay because I have to prep for the Critics Choice Awards.

[Kathryn Law]

It's gonna be so great this year. I'm really excited for that.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm excited. I'm excited. It's always so fun to do, so we'll just get right into it. This guy's another comedian. He's probably now one of my favorite comedians. After watching his new special and after spending time with him. I was doing a shoot with him a few months ago and he is an Oscar nominated writer, Emmy nominated and SAG award winning actor and critically acclaimed producer. Actor and comedian who's a critically acclaimed producer. Please welcome Kumail Nanjiani. For Christmas, everybody, we brought you a Jew and a Pakistani.

[Kathryn Law]

Yes. And, you know, jerked over Mennonite. That's, you know.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Please welcome Kumail Nanjiani. Did I say it right, Kumail?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, you said it right. You just didn't say it with a lot of confidence. But that's okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I mean, the confidence precedes me, so I Don't even need the confidence. Kumail Nanjiani. That's right.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I like that. I did.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes. I got the pleasure of hanging out with Camille. We were working on something with Kevin Hart, you know, that little nugget who just got nominated for a Golden Globe, by the way, for his standup special. I can't think of anyone who deserves it less.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

And, well, I also got nominated.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yes, you did. Yeah. I did not expect it. My special's not even out yet, but yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, my God. You know what? I was watching it yesterday. I watched Kumail's special. It's called Night Thoughts. It's gonna be on hulu, right?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, December 19th. On Hulu.

[Chelsea Handler]

December 19th. It comes out, you guys. And I was watching it, Kamal, and I was like, you're gonna. I can't believe that you got nominated either. I thought you wouldn't. If it's not out yet, you wouldn't qualify.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, the cutoff is, like, December 31st. But, yeah, I had such a great time doing that thing with you and Kevin.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, first of all, let's look. Now we're getting all carried away. Okay, let's go back to that. We filmed something with Kevin. We'll probably. You'll hear about that later. And another friend of ours, Keegan and I hadn't really hung out with you, Camille, I guess, ever. Which is. But I assumed I had. Anyway, we had a blast. And Kevin just wanted me to be there. Cause he needed somebody to drink with because Kamale and Keegan were, you know, acting like normal people. But we filmed something around the standup world. And I had a great time with you, Kamal.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I had a great time with you. It was so funny. And your and Kevin's dynamic is so funny to me. I was laughing so much because, you know, it's Kevin Hart, obviously. He's an enterprise, right? He's not even a celebrity. He's like.

[Chelsea Handler]

He's an enterprise. Rent a car.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

To be specific, a compact. So he's surrounded by all these people that he's the king of. Right. And then you're there, and the entire time you are just picking on him. It's so funny. I loved it so much.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad you were there to witness it, because it is really fun when he and I get together and do stuff together, because he just. I think he really enjoys the abuse.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

He does. He does. I don't think he gets it very much. He's just. You know what's surprising about him? And I don't know him that well either. That's the most I've hung out with him. But I had hung out with him more than I'd hung out with you. He's a true comedian. Like, he's like, loves comedy. He approaches it like a standup. He really like so the ball busting and stuff. He's not like an actor who does stand up. I know he started off as a stand up, but he's still a stand up.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And he really respects the art of standup and he really wants other people to succeed in standup. He enjoys watching it. And he'll spit. When you see this project, you'll see him watch comedians and then spit back out their material to him. I was impressed actually with him that day. And that doesn't happen frequently, so that was fun. But let's get back to night thoughts, your standup special, which is just nominated for a Golden Globe. I didn't even look at the list. I just saw Kevin posted to congratulate himself. So congratulations to you, Kumail. And when I was watching it, I was like, you should definitely get nominated because, A, you're so fucking funny. And you're so funny in a non bro ick way. You're just. You make everything listen. I'm not into cats at all. I don't want to see them or talk about them. And you have a bit about cats that is just hilarious. And it was the only time I've been actively listening to a story about a cat for more than about 10 minutes.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Thank you. You know, you texted me yesterday, like the opening soon as I walk out, you sent me a video of it. And I was like, oh, Chelsea's watching it. And then I got really nervous because I think you're really funny. I respect you, of course, and all that. I'm a fan and I feel like comedians are the best critics of standup comedy because we see people getting nominated all the time for stand up. And you're like, well, that person should have been nominated. Should not have been nominated. They shouldn't have been nominated. But other comedians really, really know what good comedy is. So I was really nervous. I don't care what critics say. I care what comedians say about it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And also I would say as a comedian, it's very hard. I don't know if this is true for you. Tell me. I find it hard to watch stand up on tv, like live. You can get down with it. But watching people's specials can always be a little bit tricky. So that's why it an extra pleasant surprise? I mean, I just was sitting here at my kitchen counter watching on my iPad, and the very first thing out of the gate that you talk about is the very first thing I mentioned to you when I saw you when we were doing our project. Which are the muscles that are coming out of the back of your shoulders? I don't know. Are those called rhomboids or are they. What are those called?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

That's funny. They're called trapezoids, which is another shape. So you were close.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, there's two sets, Kamal. There's two that come over here, come out of your shoulder, and then his arm has an extra, like, series or like, it's like a mountain range, like a mini mountain range of muscles that comes out that I haven't seen before.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I'm actually trying to bring it down, especially the traps.

[Chelsea Handler]

How long did it take you to acquire that body? Because you had to do that for your superhero movies, right?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, I did it for my superhero movie. That took about a year and a half. But when it really went nuts was in the pandemic. Like, I had a full freak out in the year and a half that I did not leave the house. I talk about it a little bit in the special, and all I did, I worked out about four hours every day. I got really obsessed with it, and that's when I, like, sort of got really, really super big.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you just did that because you had nothing else going on, right?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I had nothing else going on. And it was the only thing I could do where I could feel any kind of progress. I was like, oh, I can lift this weight today. I couldn't lift it last week, but I can lift it today. Nothing else was happening. Nothing else was real. I couldn't feel like I was moving in any direction except for working out. It's really the thing that kept me tethered to sanity.

[Chelsea Handler]

I understand that because you do address this a little bit in your special. Not related to the muscle building and working out, but in being nervous for your because she was immune compromised during COVID But I understand that too, because isn't it interesting? And not to sound like a gym rat, but I just want to say I am from New Jersey, everybody. So we already know this. So I have a predilection for physical fitness. And when you do a set, when you do three sets of something and you do the first set and it's really challenging and hard, and then you go back and you do the second set and it's easier, you Realize how quickly you can gain strength, and it is quite a motivating factor.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I think what I've learned most from it is like, we limit ourselves all the time. I can't do that. Whatever. And with working out, you realize how much of those limits are based on our own, the way we look at ourselves and not what other people tell you or what even the world tells you. So, yeah, it's. I mean, I never thought I'd be buff, you know, and the fact that I am. I was like, oh, maybe. What else is, like, available to me that I thought wasn't available to me accomplishable.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right. Do you, Your wife, do you guys have more sex now that you have a bigger body?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

No, we have the same amount of sex, which is a very good, healthy amount of sex. But she does say it's. It's like. It's like fucking the corner of a building.

[Chelsea Handler]

I like that a lot.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It's. It's. It's. You know, I hugged a buff guy the other day who was like, buffer than me. And I was like, I know exactly what Emily means.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Yeah. And how did that make you feel when you touched his body like that against your body?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I didn't. It didn't feel good. It's not like, you know Pete Holmes, you're buddies with Pete. I'm sure he. In one of his sets, he talks about how, like, a good hug is important. And he mentions me and says, there's no catharsis. Like, you need, like, cushion for a good hug. And I finally understood what he meant when I hugged this buff guy.

[Chelsea Handler]

I don't. Listen, as a woman, I have to say I disagree completely. I don't want to hug a cushion. I. That I could do on my sofa. When I want a man who's got some muscles on him, he doesn't have to be a beefcake like you. But I wouldn't turn that away. I like muscles. I don't. I mean, you know, knowing somebody spending that much time in the gym is a different story.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you want them to just be naturally physically fit without doing anything.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It is nerdy to, like, spend this much time doing this. It's like, you have to have. Emily was like, if we first went out and you look like this, I think there was something really wrong with you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, so let's talk about. Okay, first I want to talk a little bit about the special, because in the special, you really do get emotional. Two or three times. You were teary eyed at the gratitude you were feeling towards filming your Special back in Chicago, where you started stand up, you films it at the Vick Theater. So you started out as a standup, and you remind people that you're not an actor trying to do standup or attempting to do standup off of the back of your success as an actor, but that you began as a standup. And you also talk about. You mentioned therapy a lot during the show, which was really nice to hear from. As a woman hearing it from a straight man. It's always refreshing for men to be talking about therapy. And then your cat's name is Bagel. So let's start with your cat. How is she?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

She is not with us anymore.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, great, great, great way to start. So this is a great beginning. And hopefully you'll be able to. I don't know, maybe you will cry. Maybe I can make you cry.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Camille, you know, we got a new. You don't like cats, so this won't be. We got a new kitten a month ago, and that was the first time I was like, oh, it's okay. I don't. You gotta. You know, I've got a new thing to focus on. And literally yesterday, when the newness of the new kitten sort of went away, and I love this kitten, I started missing Bagel again, and I hadn't missed her for a month, and I just miss her. So. But you know What? She was 17. She led a great life. And, you know, it is what it is. Do you have dogs? Are you a pet person?

[Chelsea Handler]

I do. And what I want to say to you about this is I always have a dog. I have one dog and sometimes I have two dogs. But as soon as one of them starts to go downhill, I acquire another dog, always, because I don't have time for grieving. I want to transfer my love to another person or dog immediately. And I find that to be in a great approach to, you know, listen, rescue animals or cats or dogs, whatever. Even if they're not rescues, they're not going to. They're not going to be here forever. And we know that going in. So you kind of have to, like, I just want to kind of get ahead of it. And it's not like it's a person. I don't grieve for my animals. Like they're people. I don't think that my dog crosses the rainbow highway or whatever when he goes to heaven. I don't talk like that. I just want them. I love dogs. I love having a dog in my house. And so I'm very pragmatic about it. But I understand that other people are much more sensitive.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I was. I mean, it's the. She's the first pet I ever had. And Emily and I have been married 18 years, and she's been with us 17 years. So it was always the three of us, you know, so. Yeah. And I'm with you. I don't think my, you know, people will be like, oh, she's still with you. I'm like, she's not. She's not with me. I remember her. Her memories are with me. But there's no, like, spirit that's around, so. I completely agree with you. I was talking to Emily yesterday. I was like, we should wait a few years and get another cat. Just exactly for the reasons you're mentioning so that we have, like, another cat after this one decides to go. You didn't cry. You don't cry when your dog dies.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, I cry, but I don't mourn. Like, my last dog was actually a really ugly kind of death. And I was sorry. Thank you. And I just. I cried. I, you know, took her to the vet. It was awful. It was dramatic and it was like a three day event. But I was able to recuperate pretty quickly. And I also had this new dog, a new puppy that I had rescued. So it's a good buffer. But I just do wanna say on behalf of Bagel, because I feel like I speak for her now. That tribute you made to her in your standup, I mean, this is a beautiful way to go out. And it's a beautiful bookend to your love story with Bagel.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, the way it happened was so weird. I was in New York doing this play.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, Mary, right?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Oh, Mary. Yeah. Really? Have you seen it?

[Chelsea Handler]

No, I have not seen it. Sorry.

[Kathryn Law]

Yeah, I've seen it. I saw it just. I think maybe just before you were in it, but I saw it with Titus.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It's really, really funny. And I just loved being on, you know, you fucking kill every night. You get a standing ovation and it has nothing to do with you. It's incredible. You're like, I'm literally just saying the word someone else wrote. And you think I'm a hero. It's so fun. But the weird thing was, we've had her for 17 years. You know, she's like such an important part of our life. She passes away Saturday morning. Emily has to fly an hour later back to LA to get a monthly treatment she has to get for her autoimmune condition. And I have two shows that day, so my cat dies at 9am I'm on stage at 3pm and then again at 8pm And I never without Emily. And I never imagined it would be like that. I thought when she would go, Emily and I would like cocoon and be with each other for two weeks. And we didn't even see each other for another week. So it was like really, really intense. And I had this feeling, this is weird. As I was doing the first show, like four hours after my cat died. I was like 10 minutes in and I wasn't really feeling it. It wasn't going well. And I was like, you, this show is my tribute to Bagel. I owe it to her to be funny today. And then that went great. And then the second one went great because of that. I was like, I'm doing this for her. And then Sunday was terrible. I was terrible both shows. Cause I'd spent all night now alone in an apartment without my cat or my wife. And I was just miserable.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, it's nice to know that you're so sensitive, Kamau. I like that about you.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Well, you know what I realized? This is interesting. I realized I'm the same person I was when I was 14. And I always hated that part of myself. I hated how sensitive I was. Like my feelings would get hurt all the time. And that's not how men are supposed to be, you know, it's not what strength is. And I was very aware of it. And all through my 20s and 30s, I was like, I'm a different person. I've gotten over that. I understand now. I'm stronger, I'm cool, I dress cool, all this stuff. And I realized only a few years ago into my 40s now, I'm still the same guy I was when I was 14. I'm just as sensitive as I've always been. And it's not good or bad, it's just what it is. And I have to accept it. I have to accept that my feelings get hurt very easily. And I have to acknowledge that because trying to like get past it has not worked for like fucking 30 years now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, so tell me what it was like when you were a kid growing up. Were you able to communicate with your family and like have this kind of emotional conversations? Or was that a no no in your house?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It was a no no. But I think it was self limited. Like my parents were not like that. My dad actually is a very emotional guy and always has been. And I've seen him cry, you know, Like, I know people. Like my wife was like, I've Seen my dad cry twice when his mother died and when his wife died. I've seen my dad cry hundreds of times. And when I was a little kid, I really hated that he would cry it. I was like, oh, my dad's like. I was like, my dad's a pussy. I did not like that he cried. And he was always very affectionate. Like, he would kiss us and, you know, was very, like, emotionally, very, very communicative. But for me, I did not like that about him. And now when I look back, I'm so grateful that I had him as, like, a model for how to be like, a man who is connected with his feelings. I was not connected with my feelings. And I had a real anger issue, I would say, probably from the age of 10 to kind of all through my 20s and a lot of my 30s as well. But really, when I was 13, 14, 15, I was a nice guy. Nobody saw it except my parents. But when I would get angry, and I was so angry, I wanted to burn the world, and I could not. It was this horrible feeling of being completely out of control. And I think all of that came out of not being able to address the fact that I was sensitive, that my feelings got hurt very easily. Easily. And that anger was something that I really didn't start working on until I was in my 30s, when Emily and I were together. And sometimes we'd get into fights, and I would just go to this place that did not feel like me. And what I had to do, I would feel like I'd have to get to the point and say the thing that you cannot take back. And then that would break it. It would break the spell. And then I would feel awful, and the guilt would be just, like, punishing myself for what I said. And then. So it was like this cycle I was in. And it wasn't until, like, you know, a few years ago in my 40s, when I really started. Late 30s, actually, I would say mid to late 30s, when I started, like, trying to be like. And it started in acting class. I was taking an acting class, and I was like, oh, there's a lot more in here than I realize. And I need to start excavating it, because that's. I owe it to Emily first, even before I owe it to myself.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it's so nice to hear you say that, because I can relate to the, like. It's like. It's kind of unskilled emotions. Like, you don't know yet what you're dealing with. And you address this in your special too which is really beautiful. Beautiful moment. And don't get confused with beautiful moments in a standup special. They're allowed for our listeners. I love that. I love that it's, you know, not just all joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. It's plenty funny with a lot of, like, feeling in it and a lot of messaging that needs to get through. But I think, you know, you're talking about a cycle of anger, which, you know, so many people have, and it can escalate to a level where, like, that's the same cycle as an abusive person. You know, when somebody's abusive physically, they go. They go. And they go. They get mad, mad, mad, mad. Then they pop, and then they're overwhelmed with guilt, and they come back and they're apologizing and they're so sorry. But it's something that everyone can relate to. It's just different, varying degrees of anger and how you express it, and then finding out. Finding out from a therapist that your anger is really fear or sadness. You know, it's like the jacket that your fear or sadness wears to protect itself 100%.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

So this is something that you. Cause I always think of you as, like, you're like, a badass, strong person. Right? Like, I've never thought of you as someone who was soft or anything. Is this something that you've sort of figured out about yourself, too?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Yeah. I had to go to. I had, like, a real break at, like, when I turned 40. I was like, ugh. I was so angry. I was so angry. And I, like, I was pretend. I mean, it was like, Trump got elected, so it was like I had some place to place my anger, right? I was like, that's why I hate this world. This is it. You know? But really, when I delved into therapy, I found out it was a lot about my childhood. My brother died when I was really young. Oh, my God. I had delayed grief. I had never spoken to anybody or anybody that could really unwrap that with me. So I learned very early on that my emotional outbursts, much like yours, were just me being scared or me being really sad and not feeling comfortable with expressing either of those emotions. So you find the emotion you are comfortable with. And for many of us, it's anger. Because then you're like, oh, okay, well, this is still protective. I'm protecting myself. But it does feel like shit after you lose your shit.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It does, because anger is facing outwards. You know, you're like, instead of dealing with your own sadness or fear, you're, like, directing it outwards. That's something. And I've noticed this a lot on social media. Obviously, there's a lot wrong with the world, and there's a lot of, like, righteous anger that should be directed at it. But I see certain people that. I'm like, okay, the target is right, but there's a lot more going on with you right now. Like, this isn't just about politics or whatever we're headed or whatever. It is. Like, there's stuff inside you that you need to deal with. Cause it's. And you've decided that it's really about this thing, but it's more about you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. I would say that's an astute observation as well, because, you know. You know, you go through, like, I went through, like, a jaunt of therapy that was, like, two years intense. And then after that, I was like, okay, let me take a break and try to absorb all of this and, like, apply it to my life so I can soften my edges and be more of a whole person rather than just kind of coming across as, like, this bulldozer and strong. And then that takes a bit of time, too, to adjust your personality. Cause you're like, who am I now? Am I the same person, or am I a different person? And you're kind of trying to take the best parts of your personality and bring them into the present. And then you're like, but how do I get rid of the bad parts? You know? And it's not. It's like. It's just always a moving puzzle.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yes, that's very well put.

[Chelsea Handler]

But I was reading this book recently, and it was talking about intergenerational trauma, which is something we all suffer from. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Now we've got to deal with my fucking generation. All these families, like we were in the Holocaust. I got to go through this now. I'm like, intergenerational trauma. That's too much for us to deal with in one lifetime.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, that's not my shit. They should have dealt with that. That's the other thing you realize is, like, you know, how much we get from therapy and then realize, like, my parents have never had this once. They've never once had a therapy session. And it's like, it'd be so much. We'd all be so much happier if you guys were able to do that. Like, my. My dad, who's absolutely wonderful, really in touch with his feelings. But there was like. Like I mentioned this car accident that he was in, and he. For two weeks, he was just like, really depressed because he got so scared. And I was like, dad, you should talk to somebody. He's like, nope, nope, nope, nope. And then he just kind of muscled through it. And then a month later he was like, okay, I'm fine now. So whatever the process was he did, I don't know how deep he buried it or whatever, but it's like, it just feels like to a lot of people, therapy's a defeat. And it's really not. It's just what is required. We're really fucking complicated and we're dealing with a lot.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. And we're dealing with a lot. But there's been so many generations that have come before us that never dealt with anything. So the argument that we have to deal with it is kind of like, well, why? Maybe I could just go through my life and not deal with anything and be a miserable son of a bitch for the last 20 or 30. Like my dad, his last 15, 20, 30 years, he was just angry, just angry, angry, angry. And I'm like, oh, well, if he had had therapy and become like a self actualized person, he probably would have been a lot different. But to what avail, Right? Like we sit here kind of like, you know, like navel gazing. People are like, oh, especially la. As soon as you come to la, it doesn't matter what country or cultural background you're from, you end up in therapy.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, it's too much. People here are too self actualized. Some of these people need to start bottling shit up again.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you and your wife go to couples therapy?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

We have. We don't anymore. We did, I think we started in the pandemic and we did it for about a year. Started off every week and then every other week. And it was really, really remarkable. First of all, you know, Emily and I are both very smart people and we pride ourselves on that. And we were talking to this therapist and we were like, I think she's smarter than us. Like she really fucking knows us. And it, and it sucks. It sucks that she's so smart, but she gave us basically the tools. We realized, if you really want to get into it, that as couples we were stuck in the same patterns from like the beginning of our relationship. And there's two sort of things. One, we met, she was in the audience, I was on stage. So even though there's never been a hierarchy between us, there's never been like a dominant one. But because of that, she had a day job. I was following my dreams. That pattern became very established in our lives where like she basically makes sacrifices for me. And we'd been living that for over 10 years. That thing where it wasn't equal, it was kind of one way. And the other thing is when she got sick, which we made a movie called the Big Sick about it, and it's mentioned in the special when she got sick. That pattern that developed from that ultimately ended up being replayed over and over and over and over in our relationship. And we didn't realize that. We thought we were over it. But it wasn't until talking to the therapist that we were like, oh, all our. All of our problems go back to those two things. One, that she sort of sacrifices herself for my needs and goals. And two, I sort of feel like I need to control her so she won't get sick again.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's pretty horrible. Oh, yeah, that's really interesting. And how do you address that?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I think trust. I have to trust that she understands how to not make herself get sick. I was just very judgmental when she was like, you know, be out late at night or whatever, where I was like, any of these things can trigger another episode. How dare you do this to yourself? Like, that was the thinking, that was the feeling. And it just got to. And she's been for years being like, you have to trust me. I know how to take care of myself over and over. But understanding that, like, oh, that's what this is. It's really about trust. That's what it was. And the other thing we did was, as traditionally a very closed off man, there was just a lot of times I would not admit things to her. If I'm starting a new job, I'm nervous. Am I good enough? Are they gonna find out I suck? Whatever it is, I would keep that to myself. And I was just really anxious all the time. And then I started really telling her, hey, I'm starting this new job and I'm really scared. And I thought saying it out loud would. Would make that thing more real. It's the opposite. It makes it less. It takes its power away. And then we did this thing where I think for a couple months, every day, we had to share three vulnerable things about ourselves that we had not told the other person about. Big things, small things, whatever it is. And that really, really helped. And now the goal between US truly is 100% transparency. Like, and that could be, you know, I'm scared. Or it could be like, hey, I was at this place and this girl hit on me. Like, all. Everything we say everything.

[Chelsea Handler]

Wow. And how does that. So I'm Sure. That makes the relationship even stronger. It's interesting what you just said about naming something and saying it out loud. Because, you know, there's a philosophy a lot of people have that whatever you focuses on gets bigger.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or whatever you focus on gets bigger. And actually even saying something out loud can make it bigger. But I also am of the same. I subscribe to the same philosophy. You do that. When you do say it out loud, it also can dissipate. So it's interesting because, Katherine, this has come up a lot on the show. You know, like, whatever you focus on gets bigger. Like, if you're obsessing over something, like Camille, I guess this applies to keeping it in. Because, like, Camille, if you're obsessing about being not good enough for a role or are you gonna fit in, or is the director gonna think you're, you know, good enough? If you're focusing and hyper focusing on that, then that will get bigger and you will kind of. It will impact your performance. But I guess by saying it out loud, there's a way that you can release that.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah. And you're inviting another voice into the conversation. Because otherwise, it's not silence. It's you talking to yourself. Judge. You know. You know, my self talk towards myself has traditionally been so negative. Like, I heard someone else say this. Like, if my friends talked to me this way, I would not be friends with them anymore. And so it's not silence. It is. It's a dialogue. It's a monologue. Just me saying all this shit to myself. Inviting another voice into it to counter that was really, really helpful. Cause she can bring perspective, you know?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Yeah. So talk to me about your two other projects. You have a movie, Ella McKay. And you have a show, a TV show, Fallout.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

So Ella McKay is a movie directed by James L. Brooks, who's one of my favorite filmmakers. I mean, you know, Terms of Endear, broadcast news, as good as Terms of.

[Chelsea Handler]

Endearment is my favorite movie of all time. There is no way to get through that movie. It's like watching Hamnet. Have you seen Hamnet yet?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Not yet.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, God. I mean, I just love when something makes me ball. I was watching it. I'm up in my house in Whistler, and I was watching it last night, and I was just bawling on the sofa, and my dog Doug kept coming over. But I love crying like that. It's such a release.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It really is. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Terms of Endearment is the same. There is no way that hospital scene with Debra Winger saying goodbye to her Children that you can keep your shit together, and if you do, you're fucking evil.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

That part where she's telling the son is angry, and she's telling him, like, I know you love me. You're gonna beat yourself up over this. Don't. You're being shitty to me right now, but I know you love me. That's gonna be such a cry right now. I know. I asked Jim, the director about it, and he's like, that's scene is why I made the movie, so I could film that scene. Yeah, it's beautiful. And so he directed it and it's got a wild cast. It's got Albert Brooks and Jamie Lee Curtis and Emma Mackey plays the lead, and she's phenomenal. Jack Louden, Woody Harrelson. I don't know if I mentioned Jamie Lee Curtis. Anyway, it's incredible cast. I have not seen the film yet, but that one was just like, you know, got to meet a bunch of my heroes and really, really, really exciting. And then Fallout is a TV show based on a video game. Video game. I love and I love the first season of the show. I'm in season two for a few episodes. And the creator of that, one of the creators of the TV show, was a guy who wrote for Silicon Valley, and before that he wrote for Portlandia. And I just made this decision a few years ago where I was like, I'm just going to be shameless about this. I watched the first season, I texted him and I was like, hey, man, I love the show. If you ever got anything, let me know. I just asked people directly that I wanna work with them. And then a couple weeks later, he just called me and he was like, hey, I got this part. He pitched it to me. He's like, do you wanna do it? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And that's what. That was. Really, really fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, wow. I like that. Yeah, I like asking people directly, too, for things. It just cuts out the middleman.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah. And then, you know, like, you know, if they don't want you in it, they won't put you in it, and that's fine, too.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you feel like since you've been in this industry now for a good amount of time, do you feel like your confidence has been. You've gained a lot of confidence?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Oh, what a good question. You know, I've never felt confident. I did this show years ago, and one of the other guests was like, and this is gonna sound like a negative question. And it wasn't. She was like, how are you so confident? And it does sound negative. I was like, oh, I guess that's something I project. And at that time especially, I did not feel confident. I just sort of seemed confident, I guess. Cause so much of my life was like, it sort of comes from wanting to be a man and not feeling like a man. Like, I changed my walk, you know, I changed the way I talk when I was a little kid. Like I wanted to be more manly. So I think it sort of comes from that. I feel more confident now in that in the last few years I've learned that like I was saying earlier, the limitations I've put on myself were just exactly that. I'd put them on myself. And I've grown more confident in my ability to. In my ability to learn things and to learn things from the people around me, you know. So I would say that's really. It's not confidence. It's a more. I trust myself to be able to pick things up because I know I can work really hard. Like, I've always had that since I was a little kid. I was like, I'm not the smartest, I'm not the best at sports, I'm not the best looking, but I can work harder than anybody else. And so that's kind of where my, I guess, confidence comes from, is my ability to learn and my desire to learn. And also just knowing that I can work really hard.

[Chelsea Handler]

And your traps, and they come from your traps. And we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and do some calls with Kumail Nanjiani. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists. I need to get on this. The health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, which vaccines should you consider before a big trip? And even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, guys. I have some very exciting news. I am always looking for companies to support that are ethical. And let's be honest, the phone companies we've all been stuck with are not that. You know, I travel constantly and supposedly I have international free roaming on Verizon, yet my phone bills are still 300, 400 and even $500 a month. It makes zero sense. So I switched to a company with actual ethics, Noble Mobile and they pay you for staying off your phone. The more you unplug, the more money you save each month and the most you'll Ever pay is 50 bucks Unlimited coverage when I need it, cash back when I don't. It was started by people I know and trust. So if you trust me and want to join my mission to stop being a phone addicted zombie, come along. Go to noblemobile.com Chelsea right now and try it for just 10 bucks. That's noblemobile.com Chelsea Fleur de Mel is known as an It Girl brand for luxury lingerie dresses and bodysuits with a seductive chic and elevated aesthetic. Their fabrics include real silk, refined French lace and modern stretch materials designed to feel soft, smooth and wearable. One of their most popular pieces is the flared corset knit dress worn publicly by Taylor Swift and recognized for its flattering waistline and versatility from brunch to evening events. Their bodysuits come in cotton, lace and fashion Forward materials. The full collection is available @fleur de mal.com did you know?

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Kathryn Law]

Okay, well, our first caller is Dylan, and he's 28. Dear Chelsea, I started dating this guy this year, and things have been going great. I drive an hour and a half, multiple times a week just to see him. I never ask for gas money or anything, and I do it because I genuinely care about him. He always tries his best to make me happy and constantly tells me he loves me. Until today, I felt the same. I brought my dog over to his house, which he said was totally fine, but when we arrived, his entire mood suddenly shifted. He got all quiet and weird, and suddenly he started telling me that my dog was no longer welcome in his house and that he's interrupting his space and peace. I immediately left. There are some cultural differences between us, but my dog is my best friend and has been with me through everything over the past five years. My dog is not going anywhere. Is this a deal breaker? P.S. i'm a people pleaser. Learning boundaries. Thanks, Dylan. And Dylan, I think, has some updates for us too.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi, Dylan, this is Kumail Nanjiani, our special guest.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Hey, nice to meet you guys. Thanks for having me.

[Chelsea Handler]

Sure. What are your updates?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

So, okay, I found out he's been married for, like, I don't know how long. He never told me, but he told me like eight months in. And I was like, why'd you tell me now? And he was like, oh, you seem like you're level headed. And I. I didn't go off like I normally would. I've tried to grow, you know, as I get older, but I was like, why wouldn't you tell me? And he was like, it's not a big deal. Like, why are you mad?

[Chelsea Handler]

Wait, wait, was he. Had he been married or is. He's married now?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

He. He's still married, technically, but it's for. It's for, like he says, documentation. But he kept it a secret. So I'm like, if we're being honest, which we told each other, like in the beginning, like, that's what we're gonna do. I was like, that's a big thing that you should tell me in the beginning. You know what I mean?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah. The balls for him to be like, why are you upset that I'm married and didn't tell you.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah. And he, he acted, like, so nonchalant about it. And I was like, that's a huge thing to me because, like, I've been nothing but honest with him.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, it's a huge thing to anyone. Yes, absolutely. Him being nonchalant about it is him, like, trying to, like, dial down your reaction to that?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like, I'm married. I also, you know, have STDs, just herpes. Like, it's just like throwing something under the carpet.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I have a. I have a follow up. Two follow ups.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yes.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

You said cultural differences. What do you mean by that?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

He's Punjabi.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I was gonna ask if he's Indian or Pakistani. So there's a couple things there. One, at least Pakistanis, we don't have dogs as pets. Like, that's very, very rare. And I grew up with dogs on the streets of Karachi, like, rabid dogs chasing me. So I was scared of dogs and did not like dogs until I moved here and then a few years ago. And now I love all animals and I love dogs as well. It took a while to reset that relationship. And so I think for specifically the dog part of the equation, it's just he needs to, like, understand and get over it because it's not coming from him. It is genuinely a cultural thing. And that stuff takes some deprogramming.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Another big thing is he works seven days a week, like 13 hours. And like, I've told, I've asked, like, can I get one day of your time? And he'll be like, yeah, I promise. And it never happens. So, like, he's so family focused, which I love, but he's convinced that, like, if he doesn't support his family, like, something's bad is going to happen. And in doing so, he's pushed me away. Like, he's not willing to put in the effort. Like, I feel like I want him to understand me and everything, but he doesn't even understand or know himself. He hasn't had the time because it's so, like, survival focused.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Well, let me ask you this. Is he married to a woman?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yes.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

And is it like a visa situation?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

I believe so. He's been kind of quiet. He hasn't really filled me in a lot on it, but he's not, like, romantically with her.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah. So that's a thing that happens where people marry for green cards, and then it really is like a business relationship. So. I see. He should have still told you from the beginning, because in his head, this relationship is different from the way the relationship is to the way it sounds is different than it is in his head. In his head, it truly isn't a big deal. He should have told you. I'm not apologizing for him, but I. I know this situation. The other thing is he. So he has, like, a Punjabi, Indian family. Have you ever met them?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

No, but he's told his cousins that I. He has a girlfriend, so I'm the girlfriend in his mind.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

So. See, that's. The other thing is. Sorry, Chelsea. I feel like I'm really monopolistic.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's like, first of all, I had no idea you had esp. So this is perf. He's like a palm reader.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Well, I just have been through this. Like, for me, you know, my wife is white. My brother is getting married to a white person next weekend. It took. It really took. I hid from my parents that I was dating her. And because culturally, it's not okay. And I didn't come out until my wife got really sick, like when we were first dating. And at that point, I was just too emotionally exhausted to not tell them about her. And that's what I prompted it. Otherwise, I don't know how long it would have taken. So I think that's the stuff. He may not be out to his family. And if he isn't out to his family. Yeah. So, you know, there's like, a weird thing here. Again, not taking his side. Emily took years to figure out that she's never going to understand the cultural. The relationship that we have with our culture and the relationship we have with our parents and family because of our culture. And this is something that I'm seeing my brother, who's now about to get married. I'm seeing his fiance. Dealing with it, where you're trying to sort of understand this stuff. And at some point, for Emily, it was like, you just have to accept that there's some stuff that you just do not have access to. Like, there are so many things that I can't be honest in front of my parents about. And she's like, well, it's gotta be complete honesty. And I'm like, it's really not. Like. Like, it really isn't. It's kind of impossible. So for him coming out, you know, that's a personal journey. Like, somebody. People have to decide when they're ready to do that. Of course, he's being a coward about it, but. So it's. It's. I would say it's sadly got nothing to do with you. It's got to do with his own situation. And it is a complicated situation. And of course he should come out. But there's a lot at play culturally. Like, this is like heavy old shit, you know?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah. Like, for me, I don't mind that. Like, he's not out to his family. It's more like he keeps telling me, I'll make time for you. And it's like the empty promises. Like, I keep getting resentments for him, and I don't want that. It's not good for him or me.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

No, that's fear, too. You know, it's how I was with Emily when we were first dating. I was scared of getting too close to her. We had this rule. Emily mentioned it to me two days ago. We were laying in bed in the morning, and she was like, remember when you had this rule that we couldn't see each other two days in a row? And I was like, oh, my God. Why did you put up with this?

[Chelsea Handler]

Seriously?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Yeah, it was fear. It was fear. I was scared, like, if I get too close to her, that I have to tell my parents. And my parents accepted her. And they're wonderful, and they're very close. But with some families from Pakistan, India, the threat of being excommunicated from the family is very real. Like, I know situations where they're like. Like they just never talk to each other again.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah, I have a lot of friends that are, like, Hindu and sick. So, like, I. I get that. But, like, I struggle with. I feel like I do everything for him. And, I mean, I do it because I want to, but also, there comes a point where you gotta. You have to meet somebody in the middle. And I feel like he cares about me, but, like, he's also like. His behavior is like, I don't care.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

How long have you guys been together?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

A little over nine months.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

That's a long.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

But he asked me out, and in my mind, like, now I'm like, why would you do that if, you know, you're not emotionally developed or ready? I think he lacked that because I called him crying the other night, and he was like, I'm not going to talk to you if you're crying. He's like, oh, God. He was like, I hang up on my mom when she's crying. I don't want to deal with that.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Well, So I guess there's two things here. One, a lot of this behavior has nothing to do with you. It feels like he has some personal growth to do and a lot of cultural stuff to deal with that can only be dealt with once he's achieved that personal growth. And two, I guess you decide whether that's something you want to hang around for.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah, like, he's such a good person, but I don't know how much I can deal with more.

[Chelsea Handler]

Listen, Camille has shed a lot of light on this, a lot of light that I would not have been able to shed. So I'm very grateful that he's here to help you today. So, Katherine, great for lining up these questions. Specific also for this episode where we have someone who is more well versed in all of this cultural stuff that you have to deal with. So while you can have compassion for him and understand that his culture plays such a big role in his life, his relationship with his family, all of these things, even the relationship with dogs, like Kumail telling us that is like, it really sheds a lot of light, but it doesn't really excuse. It doesn't really make you. You're not there just to wait until he starts to. There's a couple of things that are not really tolerable. One is like an unwilling to be open to trying to understand your relationship with your animal because that's your dog is not going anywhere. And the other thing that is real, like, really not acceptable is for you to be upset and him not to be able to have the emotional bandwidth to deal with your upsetness. Like, you crying can't be a reason for him to hang the phone up. So I think, like, there are some boundaries that he's crossed that it might be helpful for you to write it right down rather than having a conversation about and saying, these are the things that I'm not okay with. It's been nine months. I understand culturally, even, you know, relay what you learned on this phone call, but also just say, like, these are kind of things that are non negotiable for me. So if you can't make the effort, like, to actually figure out how we can take the next steps and you can be more open to my personality, personality to my lifestyle, to my culture, where we can kind of join our cultures together, then there's a lot of red flags here. And I understand where you come from, but you also need to do some work.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah, I need to. I need to get it together.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Because, like, not you, him. He needs to get it.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah, true.

[Chelsea Handler]

But you do need to get it together too, because you're letting somebody be craven around you, like cowardly, and you're letting them cross into your emotional space and it's not making you feel good. So you have to actually set a boundary. And if he can meet it, great. If he can meet it and say, okay, I'm ready to do the work. You know, this has been nine months. We've been shown that we have a lot to work towards and build on, great. But if he can't, then that's your answer.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

I don't know if he's willing to put in the work. And I think I know in my heart what I need to do. But it's that people pleasing part of me that like wants to hold onto the littlest thing, but in doing so, I hurt myself and it's not worth it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, you have to be. If you're not advocating for yourself, no one will. So you really have to prioritize yourself in every relationship that you have to be the best, to be the most honest, to be compassionate, to be empathetic. All of the things that you're bringing to the table, you need returned.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I was gonna say, I mean, you know, him not being able to talk to you when you were crying says about he's terrified of his own emotions. Obviously he doesn't know how to deal with that. That can come from cultural stuff. But like Chelsea's saying, part of me, when I became a grownup, one of the things and this is gonna sound, this is not applicable to your current situation. But I realized, like, just cause I know this is again, not to your situation, just cause I know why someone sucks doesn't mean they don't suck. So for instance, I would see someone who was a dick and I'd be like, oh, it's cause you're like scared of this other thing. Doesn't matter. You're still affecting me the same way and you gotta deal with your shit. And I look at every relationship I have in my life, romantic friends, whatever, very practically I look at it and I think, am I putting in more than I'm getting out of this? And obviously there are times where your friends are going through the thing, you know, and there's an imbalance and that's totally fine. But overall I've ended friendships because I'm like, it's been years and I've just put in more than I get out and I just have to end in this friendship. And I think it's extra true for romantic situations.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yeah, no, I Completely agree with you there. I think just sticking to what I know and what I need to do is gonna be something I need to focus on, especially, like, if I wanna be happy and, like, have a good future, you know what I mean?

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely. You set the standards, like, for how people treat you. So I really would advise putting in an email, like, and really just a thoughtful explanation of where you are and what you expect. And if he can't deliver it, no problem. But we're not going to continue in a romantic relationship.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

No. No resentments. It is what it is. You know what I mean? No harm, no foul.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

All right, cool.

[Chelsea Handler]

And keep us posted. Will you please let us know how that goes?

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Yes, I will do a follow up. Thank you, guys.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, love it. Bye.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Nice meeting you. Bye. Thank you, guys.

[Chelsea Handler]

We're going to take a break and come back and wrap up. Maybe we have a quick one, Katherine, to wrap up.

[Kathryn Law]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

Okay, great. Okay, so we'll take a break and we'll be right back with Kumail Nanjiani. Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists. I need to get on this. The health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, which vaccines should you consider before a big trip, and even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, guys. I have some very exciting news. I am always looking for companies to support that are ethical. And let's be honest, the phone companies we've all been stuck with are not that. You know, I travel constantly and supposedly I have international free roaming on Verizon, yet my phone bills are still 300, 400, and even $500 a month. It makes zero sense. So I switched to a company with actual ethics, Noble Mobile. And they pay you for staying off your phone. The more you unplug, the more money you save each month. And the most you'll ever pay is 50 bucks. Unlimited coverage when I need it. Cash back when I don't. It was started by people I know and trust. So if you trust me and want to join my mission to stop being a phone addicted zombie, come along. Go to noblemobile.com Chelsea right now and try it for just 10 bucks. That's noblemobile.com Chelsea Fleur de Mel is a women owned fashion brand offering luxury lingerie, ready to wear dresses and body suits with a seductive, cool and refined design approach. They focus heavily on high end materials such as silk, French laces and modern technical fabrics designed to look elegant while remaining wearable and comfortable. One of their most popular pieces is the flared corset knit dress which has been worn by celebrities including Taylor Swift. It is known for its soft knit construction and corset inspired seaming that shapes the waist making it a versatile option for daytime social events or evening outings. Their lingerie assortment includes seamless everyday bras as well as more fashion forward lace designs. The seduce you plunge bra has gained notable attention and is frequently described as offering a boob job in a bra effect due to its shaping and lift. Florida Mal is positioned as a premium luxury brand with retail locations in SoHo, Williamsburg and West Hollywood. The full assortment of lingerie, dresses, bodysuits and ready to wear can be explored.

[Commercial Announcer]

[e-mail] did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheartra for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Chelsea Handler]

If you're looking for a wine that's not just delicious but also a total crowd pleaser, let me introduce you to Josh Sellars. The California wine brand has over a dozen award winning wines, from crisp Sauvignon Blancs to velvety Merlots. You can find the perfect wine for every mood and every occasion. Like if you're hosting a holiday get together, grab a bottle of their velvety Cabernet Sauvignon. It pairs perfectly with all those rich, decadent dishes. Your hosting game will be instantly elevated. Or maybe you're just kicking back with friends after a long week of gift hunting and holiday chaos. That's an ideal Josh Sellers Pinot Grigio moment. Every bottle of Josh Cellars is made for sharing with the people who matter most. The wine is crafted to exacting standards. So every pour is beautifully balanced and smooth and absolutely delicious. With so many amazing wines to choose from, there's always a reason to enjoy some Josh Cellars. This season, Josh Cellars is a proud sponsor of Dear Chelsea. Visit www.joshcellars.com Chelsea and join the Wine Club to get 20% off. Please drink responsibly. And we're back with Kamal. Kamal, that was very insightful. So first of all, thanks for bringing it, because if you hadn't been here today, I would have been like, yeah, I would have had no compassion for that other guy.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Well, I just understand the situation. However, what you said is very right. He's gotta figure out what's right for himself. Whether dealing with all this, like, cultural baggage, whatever it is, it's all real. It's there for a reason. However, if this person's not meeting you, they're not meeting you. You know, it is what it is, right?

[Chelsea Handler]

Right. Okay, Katherine, what do we have to close out?

[Kathryn Law]

All right. Well, I've got a question about tipping. So Regina says I try to be a good tipper tipping at least, but usually over 20%. My dad, on the other hand, is a horribly embarrassing tipper. Anytime we go out to eat together, I over tip on my bill and hide money under my plate to make up for what he shorts them. A few weeks ago, at a family dinner, tipping was brought up and I explained that you should tip well, especially if it's a slower day for the restaurant because of how little wait staff are paid by the hour. Minimum wage where we live is $2.15 per hour. He couldn't believe it was so low. He and his girlfriend googled it and were blown away. She even said, wow, that's not much at all. Fast forward. At dinner with him and his girlfriend the following week at a restaurant that I visit weekly, he offered to buy my meal. It was super sweet of him and I was really thankful. He's known to be really frugal in general, so him offering to buy mine was a pretty big deal. Anyway, after receiving fantastic service, when it came time to tip, he looked at his girlfriend and said, I didn't bring cash. Do you have tip money? She pulled a thick stack of cash from her purse and handed him a five dollar bill. Our bill was $83. Not only did he tip five dollars on an $83 bill, he called for the waiter and handed him his tip to ensure he got it. I was so embarrassed. So much so that when they were standing up to gather their things to leave. Thinking they were distracted, I turned to the waiter and said, my dad's a horrible tipper. I don't have cash on me, but I'll bring some back for you. Well, I turned around and my dad and his girlfriend were looking at me with a look of disbelief. They clearly had heard what I said. I could have crawled under the table. I came back later that day and gave the waiter a 20. Them catching me talking to the waiter has been weighing on me hard, and I feel awful. He was being nice by buying my dinner. We had a great time until the check came. But he knows how I feel about tipping. I eat at this restaurant a lot. I know the waiter well, and I was so embarrassed. Am I the asshole for telling the waiter I'd bring him more money and adding tip money behind my dad's back? I know I should have waited until we left to avoid being caught, and we'll do that going forward. But really, should I let it go and move on, or should I tuck my tail and apologize for lying to his face? P.S. my dad is not hurting for money. It's just who he is. Regina.

[Chelsea Handler]

No. Regina, you're totally in the right. In fact, I was gonna say, make sure you humiliate him every time you go out to dinner and say, I'm so sorry about my father's tip. Here's an extra $20 to make up for it. My father once came into a restaurant that I was waiting tables in and didn't leave me a tip. Like, that's how penurious my own father was. And wait, I have an even better story. A few months ago, I was doing some shows in the Hamptons in West Hampton. And my crew and I went out before, right? I had a bunch of friends there. And my assistant, one of my assistants was with me. And he always pays, right? I get a dm, we go out to this beautiful dinner. They send us all this free food. They're so happy we're there. Couldn't have been more pleasant. I get home that night, and I'm going through my DMs on Instagram, and the server goes, was something wrong with the service? You only left 15%. And I was like, what? No. All I do is talk about tipping. And I've been a waitress. I know it. And I run downstairs to car. We're in this house. I run downstairs, I'm like, carlos, did you only tip 15% at that fucking restaurant? And he's like, what? What? I'm like, this guy just DM'd me look. And he's like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I just tried to add it up quickly in my head. I go, you can never tip 15%. It's gotta be, especially from someone who could afford it. 25%. 25%. If you have money, I understand. A lot of people don't have excess cash. I get that. But also, you have to understand waitresses, servers work on tips. So, like, he went back, he had to go back with an envelope with more cash the next day, walk into the restaurant and be like, I'm so sorry. I'm with Chelsea Handler. She got your dm. We're so sorry we didn't leave.

[Kathryn Law]

But good for him for reaching out too.

[Chelsea Handler]

Carlos goes to me, he goes, I can't believe that guy DMed you. I go, I can. I want him to. I want people to tell me if I'm misbehaving. Absolutely. Don't you agree, Kamel?

[Kumail Nanjiani]

It's better that he DMed you and didn't tell his friends. Like, Chelsea Handler's a bad tipper. Like, this is way better. I could not agree with you more. Fuck that, dad. Because that was gonna be like, maybe it's a financial situation. If he can afford it, you have to tip well. It's a hard job. They're bringing you your food. It's a hard job. And I've worked in food service and yeah, especially for us, you know, people know we can afford it. We really have to. But you have to tip at least 20% because they don't make a living wage otherwise.

[Kathryn Law]

Right, right. 20% is like the minimum.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you also are paying taxes. You have to understand servers are paying taxes is if you leave a tip on a credit card, they're paying taxes on the amount that you tip them. So it's always better to leave cash. But keep that in mind. Like, they're not just getting that tip scot free. They have to pay taxes on that in almost every state. So it varies from state to state, and that changes all the time. But just keep that in mind when you are going out to eat. And if you can't afford to tip, order some fucking takeout then, you know, and then you could tip 10% or 15%.

[Kathryn Law]

And I think one way around this, and maybe it will sort of like jar something loose for your dad is just to be like, even if you're covering your own meal, be like, let me get tip. I got tip.

[Chelsea Handler]

Absolutely.

[Kathryn Law]

You know, yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

To. To our person that wrote in, you should not be apologizing to your father for his bad tipping. He just learned how much they make an hour, which is less than $3. And he still wanted to tip $5 on an $83 bill. No. Why are you. You putting your tail between your legs? His tail should be between his legs. I would encourage you to, every time you go out to dinner with your father, to take out a $20 and go, dad, you're a terrible tipper. I'm sorry. Like, it's embarrassing. That's the truth.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

When I go out with friends and they're like, I want to cover it. I know which friends. I'm like, all right, I'm going to, like, have to hide and put some money down here because it is embarrassing. Tip is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe the rest the of.

[Chelsea Handler]

Exactly. Exactly. Okay, well, Kamale, you've been an absolute pleasure. I love talking to you. You're so great. Your standup special is so fucking funny. I hope you win a Golden Globe. It's called Night Thoughts. You guys. It's on. You can watch it on Hulu. You can watch it on Disney.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Hulu.

[Chelsea Handler]

Either one. And then he has a show. Did I say. I said. I think you corrected me.

[Kathryn Law]

Fallout.

[Chelsea Handler]

Fallout.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

You were right.

[Caller (Dylan's Partner)]

Fallout.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, fallout. But then Ella McKay.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

Correct.

[Chelsea Handler]

Mackay. You said Mackay. But I think it's McKay.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I think you're right.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think so, too. I think so, too. Okay, Kumail, have a wonderful, wonderful day. And please extend my good wishes to your wife, too. You guys are a cute, cute couple.

[Kumail Nanjiani]

I will. Thank you. This was such a joy.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, love it. Okay, have a great day.

[Kathryn Law]

Thanks, Kumail. The word of the week is predilection. Noun. An established preference for something your mother in law has a predilection for sticking her nose where it doesn't belong. Predilection.

[Chelsea Handler]

I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be touring from February through June. So go get your tickets now. If you want want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour.

[Kathryn Law]

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into dearchelseapodcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching eercelseipod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in Cold butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce. Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember, if it's gotta be clean, it's gotta be tied.

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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[Chelsea Handler]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.